The Smiley Smile Message Board

IS it CCW??

Played this for my wife in the car. Seeing if she noticed any fly-ins. She did not, for the whole album, but in Dada she thought a woman was singing (this being the sped up scat line). I could live without it but don't mind the alternative, since we still got the GV box version to fall back on.

-Love the reverb!
-Love how the fly-ins work!! Sounds like they were meant for this!

This may be my favorite of the 19. It's that good to my ears.

I dig the flown in vocals, I think they add to the song. This and Worms were always two songs I felt I could've done without, and I'm impressed with both of them on this set.

This is another one that really surprised me. I love the flown in vocals, and the Our Prayer reprise at the end was a really nice touch. It doesn't seem out of place and it brings the whole album full circle before blowing you away with Good Vibrations.

I like the new vocals too, they fit well and don't seem forced.  The sound quality is what's really blowing me away, I feel like this track in particular was always so muddy - clear that away and it sounds like it could have been recorded yesterday.

Not sure yet about the flown-in vocals.  But the water chant never really sounded like water to me...until now.  Coming after "Fire", the water chant (without the "Is it hot as hell..." lyrics) sounds like we've jumped underwater to escape the fire.

And I'm sure I'm not the only one who's noticed the piano track for CCW (CD 4, trk 15) has a piece equivalent to the "Part 3" of Dada that breaks down (CD 4 trk 11).  Then it seems to go in another direction kind of similar to the CCW we know.  Who knows what that might have sounded like with vocals?  There are so many unfinished gems in this band's history!

Any one think that the last piano experiment at the end of the track Heroes and Villains: All Day (Disc 2, track 17) is an early version of the Da Da mystery 3rd part breakdown section (see Love to Say Da Da: Part 2 [disc 4, track 11] at around 1:44). I've always been curious about this, knowing that BW many times would record the first bar or two of the next section of a song in order to help with editing. Check out the Cabinessense sessions for evidence of this (at the end of the verse track he has the musicians crash on the first note of the chorus before stopping). So I've always wondered if BW was laying down the groundwork for a 3rd section that he was going to edit in right at that point. Maybe the end of the All Day track is evidence of this 3rd section, or maybe not.

In general, I am surprised to see the All Day/Da Da takes from Dec '66. I didn't know the song was around that early. Apparently it spent some time in the H&V orbit (just like half the songs on the album!).

I love the flyins on Dada. The bass vocals are already at a different speed, so it's part of the feel.

yep, seems like dada was going to have a child is the father of the man refrain... leading right into surf's up perhaps?

Not sure if this has been discussed anywhere, but I'd like to point out the first minute of disc 4's Cool Cool Water (Version 1).  I did a triple take when Dennis Wilson came in singing the "Da, da, dah dah dah da da da da" part of the vocals!  I'm referring to the part Al sings in the Sunflower (released) version.  I never knew of a recording like this even existing, so it was such an amazing surprise.  There's so many "holy sh*t" moments listening to the box set... it's truly a beautiful thing.  But how about you guys?  Have you heard the track I'm referring to on disc 4?

yeah

listening to part 2 of dada sessions pretty much confirms that it was suppose to have cool cool water vocals

track 10 0:42, brian humming a melody
track 11 1:37, you hear brian bleeding through with "da da da da, driiink a little, da da da da"
0:30, you hear a remnant of "coolin so cool coolin me" being played by the organ
track 13 1:00, guitar on left channel is a remnant of "onnn and onnn she go dum bee doo da"

Is it just me or does the mix of the 2nd day recording, the airy one with the flutes, sound much better on SOT?

I don't know but I keep listening to TSS and then wondering if a certain bit was or was not on SOT or elsewhere in the past.   I suspect that this will be a topic for some time to come.  The so called "fly ins"  confuse me even more when trying to sort things out.  Still, right now, I am just simply playing my new Beach Boys record.   And it sounds just fine. :)

Yeah, I love it. A lot of great Dennis moments in this set. At least, more than I was expecting. Tune X was much better than I Don't Know, but as we know Dennis was a fast learner.  :)

All I post here is to be seen in the context that I absolutely love the new SMiLE boxset.
Not to diss the work of the people involved in any way.
But please listen to this comparison, first from 'Secret SMiLE' (not SOT sorry) and then the same bit from the official product. You hear what I mean?

listen here MP3 (http://thebeachboys.ch/Media/airdada.mp3)

So can someone identify for me who is calling the slates for the "Da-Da" session?  It's certainly not Chuck Britz and it's obviously not Brian.  Is it James Hilton?

I laughed out loud on that "Take 1 Part 2" call :lol

thanks for sharing that.   Sounded clearer on the second bit.  Did I miss something?

I could hear the melody being hummed on track 10--very interesting. I couldn't make out the track 11 bleed through.

I find talahrama's comment on Da Da track 13 to be very interesting because I have never made the connection before that the intro to the Smiley Smile version of With Me Tonight seems to be related to the Da Da/Cool Water idea. I'm always finding new ways that Smiley Smile sneaks in Smile material.

Srsly? Don't recall hearing this, and they don't sound slowed down.

Also, kind of annoyed that the session for this doesn't have the vocal. No stereo "Da Da" for us :(

He sounded like he was in *such* a great mood.  Hard to believe that was basically the end of Smile then.

One of the highlights of the sessions for me. Dennis seemed to be one of the most active. Its no wonder his own work was so amazing.

This was definitely my favorite part of the box set.  It's too bad it developed so slowly, because it sounds like another masterpiece that could have been, instead of a transition piece.  I love how it sort of evolves that "H&V" feel that mutates across "Worms," "Holidays," "Vega-Tables," and "Wind Chimes," but also includes nods to the whole "Child"/"Surf's Up" section.  Really, it makes as much sense (if not more) as a closer than "Surf's Up," but it didn't seem as obvious before.

My post isn't about Dada but about CCW. In particular "Cool, Cool Water (Version 2). This to me is a great track and there's a series of chords at about 1:04 to 1:13 - I would have loved them to develop a song around these chords. Unless they did and I just can't pick it up? I like CCW as it is but this track gives a little bit extra! I just keep picking chords, vocals and parts of songs that I think they should have used for other albums and it's driving me crazy!

Perhaps this is already (SMiLE-fanatic) common knowledge, but I was surprised to see in the sessionography that the "Water Chant" vocals were from October 1967. The recording always sounded like something recorded at Wally Heider's studio (which is was, apparently), so this makes sense. However, it has often been said that the chant was a leftover from the SMiLE sessions that the Beach Boys resurrected for "Cool, Cool Water". Now I am under the impression that the chant was always associated with "Cool, Cool Water" (perhaps the SUNFLOWER version sequencing is indeed an accurate representation of how the song might have sounded in late '67). I have no problem with it being used on BWPS and on the new set as an intro to "Dada", but this leaves us with "Fire" only as the one identifiable "element" in the supposed track "The Elements".

I didn't know this until recently either - it definitely put a kink into my theory of "Water Chant" as the Water element. 

With no vocals for the early DaDa/CCW recordings from Dec. 22 '66 you can't definitively place them as the "Water Element," although that may have been the case at that point. Then it gets considered for H&V the following month as "All Day." Pretty complex history...

Just because it was recorded after the supposed "strict" end of the Smile sessions doesn't mean it wasn't written and intended for Smile. It's a fucking "water chant" and there was an elements suite in the works for Smile. Coincidence? Doubtful.

All the same, the boys are not singing "water, water, water" even if the lyric sheet says so; they're singing "wa-doo, wa-doo, wa-doo". However, the fact that this recording was tracked so close in time to the "Cool, Cool Water" vocal sessions does suggest that it was associated with that song.

There's no doubt that "Love To Say Dada" morphed into "Cool, Cool Water", but I'm starting to think that when Brian decided to junk "Fire", he stopped work on "The Elements" altogether and the remaining three segments were never recorded.

I agree with runners.  "Da Da" occupies a weird space in the Smile story.  The announcement had come out, but I don't think Brian let go quite that easily, and the fact that you can trace earlier incarnations of the song to the "official" Smile period says something (not to mention the water chant connection).

What is up with Brian's voice in the May session?  That is him, right?  During the first day he sounds like he's making fun of himself, or ridiculing the idea of still recording this scrapped album, even though the music being played is beautiful.  It strikes me as the same passive-aggressive attitude I hear in Smiley Smile.

Missing vocals in Smile Sessions 5 CD box set. Complete list

After thoroughly been listening to the CDs and studying the detailed Sessionography in the 60 pages book, I have found that many vocals listed in the Sessionography can not be heard on the CDs.

CD 2
Missing vocals on CD:
4. Heroes And Villains: Barnyard (Master Take) (Wordless vocals: Brian (multi-tracked))
33. Heroes And Villains: Children Were Raised (Remake) (1:06)
All other vocals listed for CD 2 in the Sessionography can be heard on the CD. (And they are many!)
Plus…
Including vocals not mentioned in Sessionography:
9. Heroes And Villains: Mission Pak
18. Heroes And Villains: Verse Edit Experiment

CD 3
Missing vocals on CD:
1. Do You Like Worms: Part 1
2. Do You Like Worms: Part 2 (Bicycle Rider)
3. Do You Like Worms: Part 3
4. Do You Like Worms: Part 4 (Bicycle Rider)
6. My Only Sunshine: Parts 1 & 2 (11/14/66)
8. Cabin Essence: Verse
9. Cabin Essence: Chorus
10. Cabin Essence: Tag
11. Wonderful (Version 1) (8/25/66)
17. Child Is Father Of The Man (Version 2) (10/11/66)
18. Surf’s Up: 1st Movement (11/4/66)
19. Surf’s Up: Talking Horns (11/7/66)
22. Vegetables: Verse (Master Take Track) (4/4 – 4/11/67) (Missing vocal: Lead vocal: Al)

CD 4
Missing vocals on CD:
1. Vegetables: Fade (4/12/67)
5. Wind Chimes (Version 2)
6. Wind Chimes (Version 2 Tag)
11. Love To Say Dada: Part 2 (5/17/67)
12. Love To Say Dada: Part 2 (Master Take) (5/17/67)

CD 5
Missing vocals on CD:
1. Good Vibrations: Gold Star 2/18/66 (The “Pet Sounds” Session)
20. Good Vibrations: Western 9/1/66 (New Bridge)
Including vocals not mentioned in Sessionography:
21. (track not mentioned in Sessionography) Good Vibrations: Session Masters
23. (wrongly numbered 22 in Sessionography) Good Good Good Vibrations (First Version With Overdubs) 3/66 
24. (wrongly numbered 23 in Sessionography) Good Vibrations: Alternate Edit 8/24/66 

Is the Sessionography incorrect? Or…

Have they mistakenly chosen wrong tracks for the box set? (They were probably in a hurry before the release. I doubt that!)

Or, have I got defect CDs? (I doubt that! All CDs are the same. It's digital you know Or?)

Please listen carefully to your CDs and let me know if you really can hear all the vocals listed in the Sessionography. Or are your CDs identical with mine?

If not, my box set must be a collector’s item! (I doubt that!)

I just think the Sessionogrphy is incorrect. Or....

magical - this list is in the wrong thread; a better location would be the "What ISN'T On TSS" thread in "General Discussions".

Anyway, I'm not sure what you mean by "missing vocals"?

The sessionography documents the known vocal sessions for each of the tracks, but that doesn't mean that the vocals will be heard on the "session" CDs themselves. Using the CD track numbers is a convenient way to identify each of the sessions and give the background info on them, but the CD tracks themselves only highlight certain portions of those sessions.

In some cases, vocal session tapes are missing from the archives so some of the vocals are simply lost.

However, many of the "missing vocals" you mention can be found elsewhere on the discs. Brian's "Barnyard" vocals (wordless), for example, are heard on the assembled track on CD 1 (as are pretty much all of the vocal tracks recorded during these sessions). Some of the backing vocals have been isolated and edited together as "Background Vocals Montage" on CD 1.

You are correct that the "Good Vibrations: Session Masters" track is not annotated in the sessionography which results in screwed-up numbering for the subsequent tracks.

Ultimately, all of the vocals tracks recorded for SMiLE (plus others) are represented in some way on the set.

Yes, the "Good Vibrations Session Masters" was a last minute addition, snuck in after the deadline for the Sessionography (and the rest of the book) to go to the printers.  But, isn't it better to live with a somewhat screwed-up sessionography than to not have that track?  :)

Otherwise, as Roger alludes to, the purpose of the Sessionography was to provide, in the order in which they appear on the discs, all sessions associated with the various titles, grouped together under those titles, starting with Disc Two ('cause that's when the appearance of the "sessions" begins, as opposed to the "album" track lineup & bonus tracks appearing on Disc One...certain bonus tracks not associated with "sessions", for instance "Teeter Totter Love", had to be squeezed in somewhat unobrusively elsewhere).

Bottom line:  there was no easy or clean way to do this (shouldn't surprise anyone, after all this is SMiLE we're talking about ;)), so we did the best we could.  :)

Hopefully there will be an opportunity in the near future to clarify and correct a few miscellaneous things in the Sessionography...stay tuned.

Who was doing the take calling in the control booth for the Dada session on the box set? Every time I hear that exaggerated overly happy voice I just want to throw something.  >:(  :lol

That's the engineer, James Hilton.

After hearing BWPS I thought it would be really cool to finish the album with Prayer but inverted and backwards. I like how it attaches so nicely to Da Da, but it would truly be coming full circle...

With this mix of ILTSDD I am really happy with thow the Water chant flows into the beginning of the song as opposed to versions I heard before the Box.

Not sure if anyone's answered your question yet but those chords between 1.04 - 1.13 are the same as the accapella section in the Sunflower final version between about 3.47 - 3.56 (although my times come from a needledrop so may not be exactly the same as the cd). Try singing this Sunflower accapella vocal part over the piano chords in question and it matches perfectly. Notice it also moves into the "in an ocean or in a glass' chords after that section too, just like on Sunflower. I think had they completed Cool Cool in 67 it may not have been too different from the Sunflower version what with this section, and the water chant and all. Maybe the major difference is that Child riff.

That first version on the box...disc 4 track 8...the percussion sounds like scissors. is it a clue to the songs meaning?

Sounds to me like he's parodying radio DJs.

Great. Now I feel like I'm having my tone nails cut every time I listen to that version. Keep your wacko theories to yourself Bubba-Ho tep!

I personally prefer  the GV box set version, I felt the TSS one was much too short. Also, I didn't feel the flown in 'jazz' vocals added anything to the song.  Just my opinion.

I thought it was a metronome but then it stops when the piano pauses.

Maybe i didn't read all these posts carefully but someone said it sounded like when brian was calling takes he was having fun.  The thought i have about the dada sessions is that they really show brian not caring as much. It seems to me that he's more apt to just say alright we've done a few takes lets keep it. This  really does seem like a man who just wants to be shot of the whole thing.

On 'Love To Say Dada (take 2) 2nd day' you can hear Brian in the studio, but someone else is in the booth calling takes.

And I think Brian really cared about the session...he was just going in a new direction....a more chillax atmosphere (hence the exotica vibe to Dada) - and that exotica vibe carried on to the Smiley sessions.

I've never seen smiley as exotic before. It's certainly very relaxed, but exotic?  Maybe on a few songs...  I'm curious what you mean.

They managed to insert it into the track listing on the fifth last page though.

But actually I'm happy about the "mistakes" in the book - I'm having my first (and probably only) book out next week, and while I'm scared to discover mistakes I made in the finished version, I can relieve myself by thinking those TSS guys screwed things up, too. ;D

Just for fun, folks...

Take the last piano chord of "Love To Say Da Da" and position it next to the opening chord of "Surf's Up" and listen to what happens.

Then tell me if you think that might make a more wonderful end to SMiLE than "Good Vibrations"...

Yes, I meant the exotica vibe carried on to a couple songs in smiley.

It doesn't sound right to me, but I'm glad you like it; that's what these fan mixes are for. Anyhoo, I think Smile should end with You Were My Sunshine just like the Capitol tracklist says. On the Sessions box set Brian even calls part 2 of YWMS "the big finale". It works as an album closer for me.

On that Brian and I sure have a disagreement.  Oh well...

Thanks Buddhahat, I'll have a listen an put the two together. :)

I'm sorry, I don't think so. OMP in fact works much better for me, even though GV always was my favorite closer - even before BWPS. There's nothing wrong with ending your personal SMiLE mix with whatever track you desire, though. :)

If this song was going to be about a baby (as revealed on a separate thread) then maybe it was not intended for the Smile album but for another project ?

Do you mean the song or the recording from May? The song was likely meant for SMiLE, as there are more songs about childhood and growing up. The May recording was as we all know recorded after SMiLE had been reported as scrapped, so it could be regarded as a discarded Smiley Smile recording, if you will.

    Were the whooshing surf sounds surrounding the water chant on the Sunflower album generated by a Moog in the summer of 1970?

Believe so.

"Dada" was supposed to be about a baby?  Could someone please point me to the thread with this extremely interesting new revelation?!  Thanks!

Love and merci,   Dan Lega

Check Marilyn's anecdotes in your boxset booklet, Dan.

What's weird about this song - the vibe - (and pardon me if I'm not hunched over looking at sessionography)
is that it fits the looser mold of "Can't Wait Too Long". It's got a a lighter vibe, in that same vein.

I know this is a fanmix thing but...

I've had as my 'Elements' suite Bag of Tricks/Fire/Water Chant/Friday Night-Workshop, which was fine but slightly bitty at the end.

Trying to redo this in stereo recently I accidentally partially overlaid the Water Chant on the backing of 'Friday Night (I Wanna Be Around)'. I was stunned. It was like listening to Radiohead (this may be good or bad, depending on your view).

If you want to try the same experiment get the backing of Friday Night and the full bootleg version of the water chant (although I think the other will do). Start with just the 'Water Water...' beginning , then when they go 'woo-oo', bring in Friday Night/IWBA. Then listen. Eeeh, it made the 'airs stand up on the back of me neck.

This is the version I shall keep. I love it.

Or perhaps the album was already dead by January when work shifted to the singles or March when VDP came back just to quit yet again? It's possible he knew it was over by the Dada sessions and that's why he was suddenly so happy...it was a huge weight off his shoulders. I could be completely wrong about this, obviously.


I also agree. He really must have been just as supportive as his famous quote and Brian's recollections make him out to be. He wrote Little Bird relatively soon after, right? In 1968? Is it possible SMiLE really opened his mind to the possibilities of music and got him inspired enough to try his hand at writing his own? Touching thought.


That surprised me too when I learned that. I always considered that kind of surreal vocal experiment to be classic SMiLE. Brian was toying with different veggie and water themed chants back in December with the Psychedelic Sounds skits too. And yes, Fire is the only element. All other ideas proposed are complete speculation. It's fun to try to make your own, sure, but ultimately The Elements was only 1/4 finished and will always remain so.


I don't see SS as passive-aggressive. I actually see it as relaxed and silly. Brian was ahead of the game by going back to the basics 6~12 months before everybody else. But unlike everybody else, he never finished a big psychedelic freak out album first. Either way though, I think he was relieved he wouldnt have to deal with the jumbled tedium that SMiLE had become by that point. Of course I'm sure he regretted the decision to scrap it later on, but by then it was too late anyway.


Just transitioning into the Smiley approach. Instead of 40 takes to get it right, create a more chilled out funny atmosphere and capture the moment on tape. That's how I see it.


I agree that Surf's Up ought to be at least the end of one of the sides if not the album. I think OMP too, would have at least closed a side. GV works well as the familiar, guaranteed crowd-pleaser finale for the live show version of SMiLE but doesn't work there in the context of a studio LP.



I think perhaps this song was intended as a B-Side to the potential Veggies single. Food and water. BUT...it really isn't clear. Unlike the Elements, this song is so mysterious BECAUSE we have so much material for it. Was it a water song that became CCW? Or an Innocence song based on the title (it's gotta be at least a play on words) and the wah-wah vocalized crying lyrics? Was it meant for the album, or as a single or a b-side or did Brian already know by then that SMiLE was dead and this was an early candidate for Smiley? Who knows.

I wish they had flown in the flutes from "AirDada" instead of more vocals. Or talking, which Brian says would be there on the All Day session. Would've been a neat idea.

Please correct me if I'm wrong but this information from my BB Calendar at my other board is (as far as I know) AGD and Ian approved:

"May 18: Smile '67 gets no further than this third consecutive day of session work on 'Love To Say Dada' at Gold Star."

Another 50th anniversary, albeit a more ominous one...