The Smiley Smile Message Board

So on Wednesday night, I finally had that listening session with my two friends that I've been promised all week. And last night we had some more wine and wrote this for you.

Some of the 60s Smile is great. I'm beginning to see why everyone who's heard parts of it goes a bit crazy for it, like Brian Wilson did! It's amazing music, and the harmonies (where there is singing, as there are _lots_ of gaps) are incredible. I always liked the version I saw live and got on CD a few years ago, but I can see what the attraction of the original recordings is now. And Brian Wilson's singing really did sound much nicer back then. Not surprising, I mean, the guys like 70 or something.

My friends don't want to be identified, but let's just say that 'Friend S' is involved a bit with the promotion of the new release. 'Friend B' is the guy who took me to see Smile live a few years ago. He's always been into this stuff, in fact he sometimes posts here (or on one of these on-line Beach Boys places, anyway). Thanks to S, who let us go crazy on his computer for a couple of hours armed with some headphones and a few glasses of wine, I got to hear the new record (it was B's second listen, which is how we knew the stuff I mentioned here the other day). There are no physical discs, or if there are, S doesn't have one, so that blew my plan to take it away on my phone! I'll just have to wait until it comes out, or take some more nice wine round to S's flat again to have another listen. It was cool listening to some of these harmonies looking out over the river.

I've got some comments and so did B. His are way more detailed than mine, though… and probably more the kind of stuff you guys want to know. He was sitting there writing stuff down with a notebook! That's how you end up if you work in politics. In fact, If I'm honest, he wrote some of the first message I put here the other day. You can tell when it's him, cos he always writes Smile as "SMiLE". He says it's like that on the original cover. He can be such a dork sometimes, but he's OK really.

So I liked the album, although some parts of it do sound unfinished compared to the Smile CD I know. The Prayer bit at the start and Heroes and Villains sound really good, but I'm not sure I'd ever get used to hearing Roll Plymouth Rock without all the words! Then there were some odd bits and pieces. B was really pissed off about the singing on two bits, the one about the Barnyard with all the animals and another bit with a sort of weird echoey bit which I don't remember on my CD. Some of that weird 60s stuff doesn't do much for me, to be honest, and I couldn't hear what they were saying on this version. I think they did that one better a few years ago. Then they did the sad version of You Are My Sunshine. It was longer than the one I know, but again there were all sorts of vocals near the end that you couldn't hear properly! I don't know why they didn't make some of these louder! B loved that bit, he was singing along and said the words were 'when skies are grey', but he must have better ears than me!

The next part was kind of a mixed bag too. I've always liked that song Wonderful about the girl, the one with all the classical instruments, and the 60s voices sound soooo good on this version. But it doesn't go into Song For Children like I wanted it too! I was singing along the first time and then I realised the track had stopped! Then you get loads more music without any words, I almost didn't realise it was Song For Children and Child Is Father Of The Man, and they're two of my favourite songs on Smile! I also missed the way all of the songs on that part of the record flowed through each other. S was only half right-there _are_ some vocals on Song For Children, but it's just like two or three voices just going "Child, Child" for about a second. On Child Is Father Of The Man, there was a bit with the Beach Boys singing and a piano which I didn't recognise after Song For Children, but it still didn't 'glue' all the songs together like it does on my Smile CD. And after that, there were no lyrics on Child Is Father Of The Man at all, apart from them singing the title in the chorus. Friend B went nuts because he said they were singing something different in that bit the second time round, but I couldn't tell the difference to be honest.

I do really like the Beach Boys version of Surf's Up. They all sound brilliant singing together at the end. Again, B went crazy because he said some of the harmonies sound different in that track, and at the end bit. I noticed that it faded out instead of just stopping, but that's cos I was looking up all the different versions the other day after posting on here.

The last part is a real mixture too. After all the tools drilling and sawing, you get that song about the vegetables which has always made me laugh. It sounds like the kind of thing I used to sing as a kid. Thats a little bit of 60s madness that I _do_ like. This version is longer than I remember it, but it was really cool. I can imagine my little cousin singing along to this one in the car.

But after that, there was another gap without any singing. The music to that holiday song is great, but it just sounds so different without the voices, and I didn't hear any this time. I found myself singing the Rock, Rock, Roll bits in the choruses, but then realised no-one was singing along!

Like S had said, the end of the holiday song "faded through" into the song about the wind chimes. That bit sounded pretty much like I remember it, with the really pretty singing about the tingling winds, and I liked it, although B was making a fuss again and saying the voices shouldn't be on that bit cos they come from the wrong album or something. I was glad they were, whatever he says! That Wind Chimes track is an odd one, some bits of it are so gentle and quiet and some bits are so loud. It reminds me a bit of my brother's old Nirvana records, you know, loud, quiet, loud, quiet.

The next song is the really loud one, the famous Fire song about the Cow that has all the mad 60s stories about it. There is something really powerful about this track, it really does sound like a fire somehow, but I'm not sure I can say I _like_ it. I usually skip it when I'm listening to the CD version. This one sounded exactly like the version I've already got, but B went really crazy about it and said it was all wrong again. For someone who says he likes this stuff, he spends enough bloody time moaning about it! He said the fast bit at the start with all the whistles shouldn't be there, cos its the intro to another song, and the vocals on the main section come from the Smily album from the 60s not Smile (isn't that the same thing?). I got fed up with him then and told him it was just like what Brian Wilson played live and released on CD a few years ago, and he just folded his arms and said 'Yeah, exactly!'. We didn't talk for a while after that.

Most of the next few tracks were the same as what I've got at home, you get the bit about being thirsty, then In Blue Hawaii, that little bit of the prayer again, and then Good Vibrations to finish. The only difference was that the bit about having a drop to drink in a swimming pool doesn't have any words again and nor does In Blue Hawaii, the one about the waterfall. There was just a deep voice going 'ho-wah' and a bit of sort of jazzy singing over the top which made B all angry again. I said "I suppose you're going to tell me this is from a totally different song again?" and he said the vocals were from a Coke commercial the Beach Boys did in the late 60s! I think he was just winding me up by then, to be honest. I much prefer In Blue Hawaii on my CD.

So in the end, I'd give it a mixed review. The songs where the Beach Boys sing sound really, really good, but the ones with no words are a bit lame. On balance, I'd probably stick with the CD I've already got, as it's complete all the way through. I would rip some of the best tracks from this version, though, like Surf's Up, the Prayer, Heroes and Villians and Wonderful. Oh, and Vegetables, I do really like that one. I'll rip that one for my little cousin.

B stayed to listen to the extra tracks and session stuff on the other disks but I soon got bored, I felt like I'd heard all that already! There were a few good bits. S had gone crazy about the track with all the backing vocals over the phone to me before. He arranges choir vocalists as a hobby, so I thought that might just be him getting all excited over nothing, but it is really amazing actually. You can hear all this extra stuff in the voices you can't hear on the first disc. The Beach Boys must have worked really hard on the singing, especially all those Heroes and Villians parts, and it sounded really great on the headphones.

There were loads of things B said he'd like to add to this message, but I feel like I've gone on enough already, so I told him to sum up his opinion in a few paragraphs. He also insisted on adding something about the new version of Surf's Up which he asked to hear again straight after the album. To me, that sounded like the piano version I listened to on YouTube the other day, the one I posted the link to here, but he said it was really different. Anyway, this is what he said. It's all gobblygook to me but I expect you'll know what he means.
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"As you can all tell, Leila's no SMiLE expert, but I actually agree with her overall impression. Those hoping for a magically completed 60s SMiLE are going to be disappointed, as of course there's lots of missing vocals. Some parts of the Disc 1 album are brilliant, but some people might even prefer the BWPS versions of some tracks.

"I don't get why fly-in vocals have been used so much on some tracks and not on others, but I suppose it's to do with what's left in the vaults and what's missing. Sometimes, the BWPS template is followed exactly, so you've got the H&V intro and the Fall Breaks vocals on Fire, and Whispering Winds on the end of Holidays (as if Brian would have crossfaded in 1966).

"I could really do without the Barnyard and Great Shape demo vocals on those tracks; I think that's my least favourite part, and I'm In Great Shape is a bit of a mess, ironically. But some of it sounds excellent: Vega-Tables, H&V, and Surf's Up — and whatever some might say, I'm glad they've used Brian's vocal and the 1971 group vocals on the tag. It's been remixed and sounds awesome! There are even some unexpected surprises, like the minimal Child vocals on Look, the extra vocals on the second chorus of Child Is Father of the Man and on the Truck Driving Man part of Cabin Essence (even if they are really low in the mix - if you don't believe me, check out the mix from the Mojo single; they are on there too). I don't know WHY they put the scatting jazz vocal from Cool, Cool Water on Love To Say Dada, though.

"The 67 version of Surf's Up is absolutely amazing. It's a bit less 'forceful' than Brian's December 66 take on it, and the rhythm is a bit more halting in parts, but it's sung really passionately. It's just a single vocal, with no harmony parts, and there's no 'bygone, bygone', 'are you sleeping' first time round, or Child Is The Father vocals on the tag; it's just the solo vocal at the end, as on the December 66 take. However, there IS a key change near the end which surprised me — the whole melody and backing go up a gear after the line 'mmm mmm mmm mmm aboard a tidal wave'.

"I only had time for a quick listen to the session stuff, so I'm not too sure about whether there's anything of note in there. I had a quick listen to the tracking dates for Holidays and Wonderful, just because I wanted to hear them in decent quality after all these years — that was predictably incredible — then S directed me straight to the Do You Like Worms session stuff for the bit about the verse melody he'd told me about. I don't know if you could really lay it over the verse; it's VERY short. Brian just sort of bumbles through some lyric in the middle of the session, with everyone talking in the background, and you can just about hear a melody and something about the Sandwich Isles. S doesn't think the melody fits the verse, either. He even tried to prove it by singing the known lyrics about the Sandwich Isles over the verse to the same melody, and sure enough, it doesn't work - you really have to stretch all the syllables out or crunch them in to make it work. It's not really clear whether it was for the verse, an overdub for the chorus, an idea which they maybe changed later to what we know on BWPS, or maybe even Brian having a crack at the melody in the session but getting it wrong. You just can't tell.

"It was really late after that, so I only had time to listen to a couple more tracks, as Leila wanted to go and I was walking her home. S directed me to what he called "the only bad track on the whole set" - Teeter Totter Love. The backing track reminds me of the Austin Powers theme tune, but the vocal is terrible, just as the guys in the know have being saying for years to anyone who'll listen. After that, there was only time to take in Tune X, I Don't Know and Three Blind Mice. I can't help wondering if these were all variations on some kind of similar basic theme; I think the first two were even in the same (or complementary) keys, and might even have been editable together. Maybe it was some sort of arranging exercise Brian did in '65, and he gave his brothers the same thing to do a couple of years later when they wanted to start arranging string ensembles…?"
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I think that's enough from B, although he's got plenty more where that came from in that notebook of his! I hope you enjoyed reading some of this stuff. I might buy Smile when it comes out, but I might just rip the tracks I want off B. He says he's buying a version with a light in it, he's welcome to that!

Leila x

Especially about the "Coke Commercial"... Is (s)he referring to "Cool Cool Water ?!?"

Sounds like a lot of supernatural baloney to me...

Supernatural... perhaps...

Baloney... perhaps not.

 ;D

Sounds like someone with a lot of knowledge about the boxed set taking on a fake identity to tell folks about the contents without blowing his/her cover. Just a guess, and I guess we'll see.

Damnit! You beat me to it, Pixletwin!

 :'(

But it definitely sounds like baloney (I always thought it was spelled bologna) to me.....

Sounds like someone with a lot of knowledge about the boxed set taking on a fake identity to tell folks about the contents without blowing his/her cover. Just a guess, and I guess we'll see.

Friend B and friend S.

That's what makes me suspicious  :lol

It doesn't sound legitimate in ANY way whatsoever to me.

Also who listens to Wind Chimes and thinks, "man this really reminds me of Nirvana"?

Doesn't sound crazy to me.  I bet Patrick Campbell-Lyons could do a very nice job on Wind Chimes...

Call me ignorant, but....why are so many people saying it's fake? Just because it's from the Hoffman forum???

Call me ignorant, but....why are so many people saying it's fake? Just because it's from the Hoffman forum???

the only thing that makes it sound real to me is that AGD hasn't said anything about the post's verity, which to me is like saying "well, you've got a few points there"

Yep. And nobody has yet to point out anything specific, aside from "Friend B" and "Friend S," that indicates it's a hoax.

As I've already said to a couple of people, the only thing I'm doubtful about is the comment about extra vocals in the Truck Driving Man part of Cabin Essence. According to her friend 'B' (or was it 'S', ho ho...), even the Mojo single has extra vocals in this part. Well, I can't hear anything new at all there, unless the vocals are down low, at the level of Dennis's Truck Driving Man part itself, of course.

Has anyone pointed out anything to show it is credible?  Does this sound like a lady who knows what she's talking about?

::sigh::

And this is how the country ended up with Obama as President every single GOP candidate, you betcha.

I think it's pretty obvious that this is written by a man pretending to be a woman. 

I'll admit it all sounded fishy, but how can you possibly tell that a transvestite wrote it?

Well, first off, no friend "B" or "S" would sit there listening to smile and YELL at a woman.
They'd be more likely to share some "Good Vibrations"

Plus another thing too: friend "B" and "S"

:D

Call me ignorant, but....why are so many people saying it's fake? Just because it's from the Hoffman forum???

HELLO ?

Right, now I've got your attention, listen up, 'cause I'm fed up with repeating this: what "Leila" says is broadly accurate, but if she only listened to CD1 in full, there are some odd omissions in her recollections. Thank you.

The other funny part is that the friends who are hardcore fans have a listening party to dive into the compiled disc, not the sessions or any other rarities/new finds.  If I was pressed for listening time, that compiled disc would probably be my last choice.

AGD we get it, you've heard TSS already, no need to shout now   :p  ;)

Never said that. But I know a man who has...

The idea of it being a man posing as a woman is rather creepy..

Where did that idea come from :lol

HELLO ?

Right, now I've got your attention, listen up, 'cause I'm fed up with repeating this: what "Leila" says is broadly accurate, but if she only listened to CD1 in full, there are some odd omissions in her recollections. Thank you.

April.

Wow, what a reception, well, B warned me that fans of the original Smile can be a bit crabby… and he should know  I can't believe how much got posted over the weekend! I only ever post on forums from work, wasn't anyone out enjoying the sunshine this weekend... Anyway, lunch time at work. Time for another post.

So I've been catching up with everything everyone asked since Friday afternoon. I had to show B the questions actually, he's the expert. And yes, there _is_ a reason why he's not posting here directly, but prefers to send stuff through me. But he is a real guy, his name is a bit like a shopping centre in North London. And he won't let me say any more than that! As for S, we could get him in trouble if we said any more about _his_ name, let's just say he's from north of the border. But we had a good laugh about how everyone thought what we were writing had to be BS, because my two friends are called B and S. B just said "tell 'em truth is stranger than fiction, Leila". And he's right!

It also feels like you've all been having a big laugh at how little I know what I'm talking about. Well, I know I probably didn't describe all the song names right and all that stuff, but as I said, I got taken to see smile live a few years ago and I really liked it so I bought the CD. That's the version I know, end of. I never heard any of the 60s stuff until the other night really (B bluetoothed a couple of tracks to my phone once, but I thought they sounded just like the versions from my CD, so I deleted them). After listening to the CD a bit, though, I got more curious and starting asking B questions and he told me about all the stories from when it was recorded, like the stuff with the Fire and Brian Wilson going mad and the Beatles eating carrots in the studios and all that. The thing is, the 60s are like anceint history to me, they're way before my time guys! How am I supposed to know all this stuff?

Anyway, here's what B sent to me to include in this post! I hope you enjoy the info, particularly Mr Pornmower who doesnt seem to think we exist!

Leila x

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dvakman, regarding H&V Parts I & II: I didn't get to hear that yet. I was more interested in the Sessions discs to start with, and S has H&V I and II on another stream, the one for the two-disc version, so it wasn't immediately available. I keep meaning to go back round S's for another listen, but that won't happen for a few days, as I'm busy with parliamentary work. I have asked S about it over the weekend, though. S says it's basically the old Cantina mix from the twofer, and Part 2 is basically some of the sections mix from Gee onwards. I hope to get more info on that next time I see S.

Tristero, Child Is Father of the Man is like an old mix I heard on a boot years ago, except that it opens with the same piano section as the version from the Sea Of Tunes single-disc SMiLE set. After that, it's not like BWPS at all. It's the piano section with the bass, then the chorus, then the verse, then the second chorus. And the new vocals on the second chorus are all that's different - there's an extra high descending 'Father Of The Man'. There are no verse vocals. And I didn't hear Brian's original mono mix anywhere on the set. I didn't hear the Child sessions the other day, but like Andrew Doe says, you can tell from the timings that the mono mix isn't going to be there. The Brian mono mix of Wind Chimes doesn't seem to have been used either  The mix on Disc 1 (after the Holidays/Whispering winds crossfade, ugh) takes the verses from the second version re-record, but the rest of the track from the chorus onwards is from the first version, as heard on the Sea Of Tunes boots, and like BWPS. The track doesn't fade out after the tinkling piano bridge, like on Brian's mix.

Olsen - there's no cough in DYLW. That's one part you'll have to add back.

Mr Schneider (wer sind _Sie_ den uberhaupt?), I Don't Know is great, sure, but it's short and sounds like it was supposed to be a bridge or an edit fragment for something else to me. Like Lonely Days was, probably

Jeff64 and CelticBob: the piano from the November 66 H&V demo is still in Great Shape and Barnyard, and it's Very obvious when it disappears, which is one of the reasons I don't like it. It's worse on Barnyard than on Shape because there's already some piano on Shape for it to join in with. There's no piano on Barnyard so when it goes, you really notice it afterwards!

Michael Papelian - there are different versions of "Bells and Whistles" on the set, including the early one from the Heroes and Villains sessions, but I didn't hear a Bells and Whistles version of With Me Tonight. In fact there's only one version of With Me Tonight on this set, and I don't know which one it is yet. I didn't hear any toothbrushing sounds on Vega-Tables either…

Buddhat - Great Shape and barnyard are sort of joined via the tape explosion, but it never gets as big and 'explody' as it did on the Cantina mix of H&V and on some of the three takes of Great Shape that made it out on boot, nor is there a crossfade between them. Great shape sort of half goes into a weaker explosion, then fades, and then Barnyard starts.

Jeff64, having briefly scanned through the Wonderful sessions last week, I can say that, yes, the sessions for the Rock With Me Henry version are there (as well as the session for the original harpsichord version) including the sessions for that odd 'mamamama' tag. As far as I could tell, everything was unfinished like it was on boot. The vocal on Rock With Me Henry finishes where it always did, long before the track ends. I don't remember hearing 'I need some water, man', though. And the April piano version of Wonderful is also there, but again incomplete. Just a few backing vocals on one of the verses, like on the boots.

Zodiac - there are no Worms vocals on the Holidays chorus. But I think you knew that already. And to complete the story, there are no 'Ocean Liners' or 'Sandwich Isles' Worms vocals on the verses, either (just the old tape drag vocals, now without the drag), although there is that muffled snippet sung by Brian in the sessions, which might be for the verse, the chorus, or who knows?

Andrew Doe - S was really into the vocal-only montage track - like Leila posted here in one of her short early posts, he thought it was "absolutely inspirational" - and Leila really liked it, too. She wrote about that. I wasn't so taken with it, as I don't like these Stack-O-Vocals things. It's always just like listening to half the proper Wilson arrangement to me, a bit of an abomination. But that's why I didn't mention it. For Mylene, I certainly didn't hear anything that destroyed my mind in there, just lots vocal sections we've heard before, but without the instrumental tracks. FWIW, I heard lots of stuff from Heroes and Villains, Wonderful, Cabin Essence, Worms, Vega-Tables and Wind Chimes.

Tristero - we did also whiz through Heroes and Villains sections on disc 1, which is different to the Good Vibrations box set version. For a start it's all in stereo. The slowing down section at the end of the Western theme, or Prelude to fade, is different, with whistles and bells and collapsing strings again. I think that's a different take spliced in from that session. Also, the track ends differently to the 1993 mix - a run through a piano 'Do A Lot' section I didn't recognise, the dum/whistle/explosion from the Cantina version, and the False Barnyard to fade. Hey, maybe me, S and Leila will make the book? Or maybe we won't, now…  

Weird.  I wonder why they'd leave off any Brian mono mix, if that's the case.

By the way, great avatar, Lonely Days.

ALL THE CONTENT OF THE FOLLOWING POST WAS ORIGINALLY POSTED BY Leila  AT THE Hoffman Forums.

The Brian mono mix of Wind Chimes doesn't seem to have been used either  The mix on Disc 1 (after the Holidays/Whispering winds crossfade, ugh) takes the verses from the second version re-record, but the rest of the track from the chorus onwards is from the first version, as heard on the Sea Of Tunes boots, and like BWPS.

And of course, as AGD said, under normal (ie non-phase-cancelled) listening conditions, it's utterly inaudible.

Cancelling from a needle-drop of a vinyl record (ie a non-sample-accurate analogue source) is never going to work well, for the reasons described above. When the SMiLE Sessions finally comes out, we might be able to do a much better job with the uncompressed audio off the CD.

Depending on the multi-track source used to remix the song, I'm betting this is print through of the "Coolie" vocal. As it is so inaudible on the non OOP track it was never an issue.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Print-through

Have you ever listened to real tape bleeding ? This is WAY TOO LOUD to be tape-bleed. And why does it starts and stops so clearly ? And anyway, it's too far from the tag to be tape-bleed. IMO, it was a test the Boys did during the recording and droped it off because it didn't work properly.

But maybe Mark Linett found it interesting to get it back, just for fun and historical accuracy.  ;)

At 15 inches per second, that puts that Grand Coolie vocal... [sticks out tongue, crosses eyes] ***four hundred and fifty inches*** from the start of the TDM section. There's just no way that could print through. Even if it was a sizzling cymbal recorded with loads of top end, it'd be IMPOSSIBLE that a signal could print through over that distance of tape.

I haven't tried doing a similar cancelling job on a 20/20 copy of Cabin Essence (and I don't have time today...), but if anyone tries it, I'll bet the proverbial donut that this ghostly Grand Coolie vocal... will NOT be present.

Now, I don't know how 'B' ('Brent'? 'Brett?' er... 'BRAD???')

If Mark did put it back…  now someone with the skills of JMZ & Matt B is gonna have to do exactly the same process with a '68 vinyl version to see if it was there all along and we've simply missed it all these years.

Oh, and John, great points. Yes, it is a bit like finding 'this is a fake' scrawled underneath the paint on the Mona Lisa with felt-tip pen, isn't it? Which is a reference I have a sneaking feeling you'll get...! ;)

JMZ I have the original iso TDM vocals and the extra vocals are not there.

JMZ... how could they be demo vocals that were not used? For one thing, they're *finished* vocals, but from the wrong section, in the wrong place. They must surely have been placed here by mistake...?

we should sync these on top of the tag and phase cancel them to see if they cancel something

So... that new vocal is there now because the TDM section is a NEW mix, with the GC vocal mixed in *in addition to* Dennis's vocal.

Hey, Andrew, please, I entreat you, read what I said carefully. I am a huge fan of Mark's work and of all the effort he's put in to bring us this stuff over the years! And NEVER so more than now!

And I never said anything more than that! No criticisms, in jest or otherwise, in that post or this. Straight up.

I'm not having a go at you either, but I don't wish my views to be misunderstood or misrepresented, any more than you would. Fair comment?

Matt

I don't think anyone's "overthinking" this, and I don't see any reasons why we shouldn't talk about it. On both JMZ's and Matt's files, this "have you seen the grand coolie" section is easily audible, even without headphones and on my crappy laptop speakers, in a very surprising place. I think discussing this is waaaaay more interesting than discussing what's supposedly the last tenth of a second of Our Prayer at the beginning of Heroes & Villains.


I, too, have a copy of the isolated Dennis vocals (no idea whether they came off a vinyl or a CD though), and that "grand coolie" section is nowhere to be heard. So, unless I'm missing something, either it's a new mix that deliberately includes this section (and I don't see the point, if it isn't loud enough to be heard in normal conditions), or it's a mistake (or at least something that's been overlooked).

I can't wait to have more details about this!  8)

Nevertheless, someone years ago on the old SMiLE Shop board managed to do it, and completely isolate Dennis's vocals using this method (or one very like it). I think his name was Paul, and if I remember rightly, all copies of the isolated 'Truck Driving Man' rap originate from the heroic, time-consuming work he did to phase-cancel the backing. He did it very, very well, as the result was a completely isolated Dennis vocal with no bits of backing left in it at all. It's a very hard thing to do, that, and I don't think I ever thanked him. So if you're reading this, Paul, thanks. Several years too late, but thanks!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1dje0M5b_9M

Here's a youtube video where Dennis's part not isolated but significantly louder than the rest of the song.

Either that, or what we're hearing is a contemporary edit of Brian's that they found, and they thought it might be interesting to use, even though it was ultimately discarded by the group when they completed the song in '68.

Regarding the "Truck Drivin' Man" part. I've asked this before and nobody seems to have an answer. Maybe Linett or Boyd knows. Maybe only Steve Desper and Carl and/or Brian Wilson know:

Was the "Truck Drivin' Man segment part of the original Cabinessence? If so, was it originally more up front in the mix or was it always mixed down behind the "Who Ran The Iron Horse" lyrics? Was this the way it was for the original Cabinessence mix in 1966 or were the "Who Ran The Iron Horse" lyrics later added over the top of the "Truck Drivin' Man" part in 1968 for the released version? 

It's present on the last Cabin Essence track in "Secret Smile", which I'm pretty sure contains only the vocal overdubs recorded in 1966.  AFAIK the only thing added in 1968 was Carl's lead vocal.

I forget who it was who confirmed it (I think it was Steve Desper but am not 100% sure) but allegedly Carl's lead also dates from 1966.

I think the story is that Carl found sheet music with the lead vocal line on it.

I think the story is that Carl found sheet music with the lead vocal line on it.

What is the source of that info? It makes more sense to think that the lead was tried in 1966 and Carl remembered it or asked Brian how it went.

And what do you make of my assumption that the chorus and fade are 1966 mixes? Sonically they are IMHO closer to the way GV sounds than to the way the 1969 CE sounds. And the chorusses end with some strange tape hiss, too.

That's a nice word, "chorusses".

Why record literally everything else but the lead?

I forget who it was who confirmed it (I think it was Steve Desper but am not 100% sure) but allegedly Carl's lead also dates from 1966.

JMZ or anyone with the gadgets - have you done a similar exercise on BWPS version of Cabinessence???????

There seems to be no solid evidence as to whether Truck Driving Man is '66 or '68.

Personally I believe it is '66 because it is so precise. The syncopation has been heavily rehearsed and coached imo. It is a chant. Who was really into chants and heavy rehearsals in 1966? This has Brian all over it.

By '68, would he have been interested or inclined to rehearse Dennis in this line?

Did he have anything to do with CE '68?

Did he want it on 20/20 at all?

Very good points.

Ask and ye shall receive...

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1164003/TDM-BWPS.wav

After the hours of work the 60s one took the other night (and for only a couple of completed lines, too), that one was easy, cos it's a digital recording to start with, and sourced from CD. So overlaying the two sections to single-sample accuracy is comparatively straightforward.

MattB

ugh, that vocal is so lifeless.

Nope, 1968 for sure.

Well, Dennis's vocal on the original isn't the liveliest either, IMHO. Once the isolated version began to circulate, back in SMiLE Shop days (how I miss that place...!) and I could finally hear the thing, I wondered what all the fuss had been about. Dennis sounds like he's rushing through it in a monotone, and he badly fluffs the last part ('in the vaaaaaaaaaa...st... [long pause, as if he's totally forgotten where he is]... paaaaaast...) and then he gabbles the final lines. Not, in my opinion, his finest hour, despite the high opinion he held of the part a few years later in interviews.

The BWPS version is perhaps more monotone-like in its tonality, but I find it to be more competently delivered. That's just my two pence, though...

MattB

The difference is that Dennis' voice has personality to it, whereas Paul's doesn't...he sounds like he's just phoning it in.  To his credit, Dennis was just learning the part, so I can forgive it not being entirely perfect, but Paul has no such excuse.

Here's my problem with a 1968 Carl vocal.  At the end of Carl's vocal you can hear Brian come in and sing "Home on the Range".

It would make perfect sense to think that the lead was recorded in some fashion in '66, either by Brian as a demo or by Carl as a shot at actually recording it.  Much like "Worms," somebody must have taken a stab at it at some point.  Why record literally everything else but the lead?

My assumption--which is just that--is we had a paranoid Brian who probably avoided confrontation at all costs, which is why leads weren't done

Carl's CE lead has 1968 written all over it. That is not how he sang in 1966. It has his overly emotive quality to it that he adopted after Wild Honey (but started during the Smiley Smile sessions). Listen to GOK for an example of how Carl sang before Smiley Smile, which sounds very different from the way he sings lead on CE.

There seems to be no solid evidence as to whether Truck Driving Man is '66 or '68.

By '68, would he have been interested or inclined to rehearse Dennis in this line?

Did he have anything to do with CE '68?

Did he want it on 20/20 at all?

The sad thing is, we can't ask Brian, because last I read (sometime around BWPS), he didn't even remember that they were there on the original.  He thought it was something Dennis added on his own, which obviously isn't the case.

I think the easy answers to all three of those questions is "No".

Well, Dennis's vocal on the original isn't the liveliest either, IMHO. Once the isolated version began to circulate, back in SMiLE Shop days (how I miss that place...!) and I could finally hear the thing, I wondered what all the fuss had been about. Dennis sounds like he's rushing through it in a monotone, and he badly fluffs the last part ('in the vaaaaaaaaaa...st... [long pause, as if he's totally forgotten where he is]... paaaaaast...) and then he gabbles the final lines. Not, in my opinion, his finest hour, despite the high opinion he held of the part a few years later in interviews.

We really need that "rhetorical question" smiley  ;D

It would make perfect sense to think that the lead was recorded in some fashion in '66, either by Brian as a demo or by Carl as a shot at actually recording it.  Much like "Worms," somebody must have taken a stab at it at some point.  Why record literally everything else but the lead?

I don't find it too hard to believe that the Dennis chant is exactly as they wanted it to sound on the recording.

The low mixing does cloud the lyrics, obviously, but at the same time it adds to the overall pulse and drone of the track, similar to any "wall of sound" producer or arranger adding a part which is meant to be felt or perceived by the listener rather than mixed right up in your face.I think the part adds a very cool drone, a weird sort of pulse to the track that could remind you of riding on a train or driving a truck, at that stage where the sound of the wheels hypnotizes you just enough to either doze off or wake up.

I'm sticking with 1966 as the year the Truck Drivin part was recorded until further proof, but I still find it odd that nearly every CE vocal tracked in 1966 (which we have audio proof of) seems to have been logged by Oppenheim and his camera crew except Dennis' part. And obviously, no lead vocal.

Not sure it's obvious. If the "Truck" lyrics were added in 1968, Brian probably wasn't involved and unaware of it, thus supporting the notion that he didn't remember it and they were added post 1966.

I'd bet my bottom dollar that Truck Drivin' man is a '66 addition, and I think the upcoming box set will back this position up.

I accept the bet - shall we say... oh, just to make it worthwhile, $1,000 ?

  The fact that Brian doesn't remember it is irrelevant - this is the same guy who also said that he'd never recorded "White Christmas."  I'd bet my bottom dollar that Truck Drivin' man is a '66 addition, and I think the upcoming box set will back this position up.

I disagree. I of course think that Brian's memory is very relevant at this point, based on the lack of clear evidence to support when the Truck Drivin' Man lyrics and lead vocal was recorded. Carl is gone, Dennis is gone, so that leaves Brian and Desper and/or written notes. I don't think Brian's memory is shot. Far from it. He surprisingly remembers quite a few things - a good amount of things, especially if he's prompted and in a good mood and off the meds during interviews. Some B.S. in articles to be sure, but I've seen a good amount of detail that he does remember. I think he chooses not to remember much of the Smile era because of bad feelings, but we'll see what he can recount for the Priore book coming up.

but we'll see what he can recount for the Priore book coming up.

I missed that one - Dom's got a new book coming out ?

Off topic. I'm home from work this week and watching TV a little bit. Carnie Wilson is filling in for someone on the show called "The Talk", which is on during the afternoon on the Pacific (left coast). She's doing pretty good and garnering quite a bit of applause and laughter. Watching the audience to see if Marilyn or Diane is there....

Sorry. Back on topic.

thanks for the heads up I am going to try and 'bate to this…

You're gonna what?  This is PJ over again!

Oh no Carnie is talking about taking laxatives at fat camp. Oh my. This isnt going well.

Oh no Carnie is talking about taking laxatives at fat camp. Oh my. This isnt going well.

Carnie is awesome, she has the total honesty of Brian. Carnie should have a talk show with Brian directing the house band to play "be my baby", "ding Dang", and "short. bread"

Thanks for the update on your progress.

They're still making music. Wilson/Phillips is working on a new CD - a tribute to their parents.

Hey, who in the Hell derailed this thread, eh?

I know Jack Schitt. He's a close, personal friend of mine. Jack is the only son of Awe Schitt and O. Schitt. Awe Schitt, the fertilizer magnate, married O. Schitt, the owner of Knee-deep Schitt, Inc. Jack Schitt married Noe Schitt and they had 6 children: Holie Schitt, The twins; Deep Schitt and Dip Schitt, Fulla Schitt, Giva Schitt and Bull Schitt. Jack and Noe divorced. Noe later married Mr. Sherlock and because her kids were living with them, she wanted to keep her previous name. She was known as Noe Schitt-Sherlock. Dip Schitt married Loda Schitt and they had Chicken Schitt. Fulla Schitt and Giva Schitt married the Happens brothers in a dual ceremony. The Schitt-Happens children are Dawg, Byrd and Horse. Bull Schitt left home to tour the world. He recently returned with his new bride, Pisa Schitt.


OK, 'nuff trolling! What was this thread about again?
 

I know Jack Schitt. He's a close, personal friend of mine. Jack is the only son of Awe Schitt and O. Schitt. Awe Schitt, the fertilizer magnate, married O. Schitt, the owner of Knee-deep Schitt, Inc. Jack Schitt married Noe Schitt and they had 6 children: Holie Schitt, The twins; Deep Schitt and Dip Schitt, Fulla Schitt, Giva Schitt and Bull Schitt. Jack and Noe divorced. Noe later married Mr. Sherlock and because her kids were living with them, she wanted to keep her previous name. She was known as Noe Schitt-Sherlock. Dip Schitt married Loda Schitt and they had Chicken Schitt. Fulla Schitt and Giva Schitt married the Happens brothers in a dual ceremony. The Schitt-Happens children are Dawg, Byrd and Horse. Bull Schitt left home to tour the world. He recently returned with his new bride, Pisa Schitt.


OK, 'nuff trolling! What was this thread about again?
 

You could ask the same thing of Barnyard and Child is the Father of the Man. I think one of the great tragedies of Smile being abandoned is the fact that there is absolutely no record of lyrics or melody for the latter song though I can't imagine that they weren't written.

  And a 1966 Brian Wilson melody is an irreplaceable treasure, worth more than just about anything.  Many people have written good lyrics, lyrics better than anything on Smile.  But very, very few in the history of humanity are the people who can compose a song like Brian Wilson could in 1966.   imho.

I used to be of this opinion, but I'm not anymore.  Brian has certainly been known to track a song before the lyrics were written, and I really can't imagine that Van Dyke Parks could have written a lyric for the song and then forgotten it entirely.  Van Dyke seems like a pretty lucid guy, and I think if he had written lyrics for The Child is the Father of the Man, he would have mentioned at some point or another that "oh, we wrote lyrics for that one, don't know what happened to them" or something along those lines.  Frankly, I find it hard to imagine that the man hasn't been asked outright, given the number of people who would want to know.  The real tragedy in my opinion isn't that we lost the lyrics, its that we lost the melody.  Because that much more likely was written, or at least, Brian probably had some idea of how it would go.  And a 1966 Brian Wilson melody is an irreplaceable treasure, worth more than just about anything.  Many people have written good lyrics, lyrics better than anything on Smile.  But very, very few in the history of humanity are the people who can compose a song like Brian Wilson could in 1966.   imho.

I'm afraid that the last-ditch, one-in-a-million longshot hope for any developments on "Child" would be discovery of the "Inside Pop" audio for Reel #75 which contained some sort of rendition of the song.  Of course, a one-in-ten-million would be discovery of an audio recording from the interview when Dennis did a piano demo of the song.

I know these reels have been discussed a lot, but why are they "unfindable" ? Lost ? Erased ? Copyrights ? I mean, Alan Boyd and Mark Linett maybe could've done some research this way ... I mean: they didn't ? they found nothing ? they found things but not the whole stuff ? they couldn't manage to clear the rights for use, etc, etc, etc ....

Is there an expert of the "Inside Pop" affair who could explain ? Thanks.

There was a thread a while back where the actually found where the reels were supposed to have been, but they were gone |...] Is it possible they are still there, but were just put back in the wrong place?

Yeah, I remember having seen this thread or at least similar info here or on another board/site.

The only thing that seems odd to me is that nobody seems to be in the power to investigate properly, not even Mr. Boyd or Linett.  ???

I feel the same. All those lost melodies, that he could just toss out of thin during this period.

Memories fade.  If VDP denied writing 'Child' lyrics in, say, 1969, that might be convincing.  But 37-45 years later?  People forget stuff.  I can barely remember some projects that I worked on 10 years ago.  VDP has denied that he wrote the lyrics the "He Give Speeches," but if he didn't, who did?

I'm afraid that the last-ditch, one-in-a-million longshot hope for any developments on "Child" would be discovery of the "Inside Pop" audio for Reel #75 which contained some sort of rendition of the song.  Of course, a one-in-ten-million would be discovery of an audio recording from the interview when Dennis did a piano demo of the song.

Jungle Music?  I only heard it once over the phone along with a snippet of the Brian/VDP composing tape for SOS.  It sounded exactly like jungle music.  Drums, strange sounds that I always felt would have somehow ended up in "The Elements".  A distant cousin of "Fire".

Van Dyke seems like a pretty lucid guy, and I think if he had written lyrics for The Child is the Father of the Man, he would have mentioned at some point or another that "oh, we wrote lyrics for that one, don't know what happened to them" or something along those lines.

Mark Linett explains: "When he's not singing, you can hear faint background vocal parts that no longer exist on the multitrack. They must have been in his headphones, and were picked up by the vocal mic. It could be that Brian decided he didn't need them, or that he was going to re-record them, but never did. You hear this sort of stuff throughout the tapes."

Darian: "Part of Brian's insecurity was the fact that some of SMiLE was risky, you know... uncommercial. Take the 'Workshop' section, with all the power tools playing. Brian wasn't sure about including that, but Van Dyke said, 'We must have courage, my friend,' and so it went in."

More discoveries were made as SMiLE was being assembled. When Brian's confidence was judged high enough to listen to 'Mrs O'Leary's Cow', a dischordant, frightening piece of music that had severely unnerved him even back in 1966, Darian was amazed to hear him humming along to it. And it sounded familiar...

Also known as 'Fire', 'Mrs O'Leary's Cow' (named after the farmyard beast that supposedly caused the Great Chicago Fire of 1871 by kicking over a lantern) shares chordal similarities with 'Fall Breaks And Back To Winter', a recording that made it onto the later, much simplified Beach Boys album Smiley Smile. Unlike the incomplete 'Fire', though, 'Fall Breaks...' has vocals, and it was the melody line of these that Brian was singing. "It just made so much sense," says Darian. "'Fall Breaks...' is a reworking of 'Mrs O'Leary's Cow'. It's the same chords, just a different arrangement." The vocal harmonies were duly restored to the live arrangement for 'Fire'.

Mark Linett explains: "When he's not singing, you can hear faint background vocal parts that no longer exist on the multitrack. They must have been in his headphones, and were picked up by the vocal mic. It could be that Brian decided he didn't need them, or that he was going to re-record them, but never did. You hear this sort of stuff throughout the tapes."

A little story.  Rumour has it that all the vigotone tapes/cds that were confiscated by the FBI were put in a secure location for potention further reference.

The secure location?

The World Trade Center.

President Obama should have used United States Special Forces to recover all SMiLE material worldwide in the world from those hoarders. :hat

Prior to their bust, Vigotone was working on a Smile Box.  Supposedly and I stress supposedly the Jungle music tape would have been on it.

A little story.  Rumour has it that all the vigotone tapes/cds that were confiscated by the FBI were put in a secure location for potention further reference.

The secure location?

The World Trade Center.

I recall well the fabled stories of headphone bleed, but if all the folks who've heard the box are to be believed, none of that has made it to the set. Look supposedly has just a couple of sparse vocals, and CIFOTM just an extra harmony or something, right? And I think those were the only two tracks where headphone bleed was mentioned...

Prior to their bust, Vigotone was working on a Smile Box.  Supposedly and I stress supposedly the Jungle music tape would have been on it.

A little story.  Rumour has it that all the vigotone tapes/cds that were confiscated by the FBI were put in a secure location for potention further reference.

The secure location?

The World Trade Center.

I recall well the fabled stories of headphone bleed, but if all the folks who've heard the box are to be believed, none of that has made it to the set. Look supposedly has just a couple of sparse vocals, and CIFOTM just an extra harmony or something, right? And I think those were the only two tracks where headphone bleed was mentioned...

If you check the various posts on this site, you will note I'm not the only one to hear "Jungle Music".

LIsten stuff is out there.

That said, I miss the days of going into a record store and finding a new fantastic bootleg.  Still remember the day I bought my first Smile bootleg album along with Landlocked.  Right up there with buying a used copy of Let it Be with the book for six dollars.

ML's comments in the SoS interview that these instances of headphone bleed and other artefacts were all over the Smile Sessions, but CIFOTM was the only one I've heard confirmed, and that was by Darian, not ML (Darian approved the paraphrases & quotes I used for the final article).

Is Look mentioned somewhere? Not doubting it, but what was the source for that?

I'm sure Darian said at some point that the prominent clarinets in the BWPS version of Song For Children came from deleted instruments heard via headphone bleed on the original 'Look' masters, too. I'm sure I'm not making this stuff up, but I couldn't tell you where that fact came from now if my life depended on it. Anyone else able to back me up, here?

If you check the various posts on this site, you will note I'm not the only one to hear "Jungle Music".

If you check the various posts on this site, you will note I'm not the only one to hear "Jungle Music".

Just looked back -  only claim I can find is a guy called "MichaelPapelian" made such a claim in this thread: http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,6824

By the same token, with all of those recordings being kept "safe", when will the general public be able to hear any of that on request? If the American government is paying in part for the process to archive and restore the recordings, can we request something to hear them? Interesting point to raise.

Anyone can use the National Archives. You do not need to be an American citizen or to present credentials or a letter of recommendation.

Prior to their bust, Vigotone was working on a Smile Box.  Supposedly and I stress supposedly the Jungle music tape would have been on it.

A little story.  Rumour has it that all the vigotone tapes/cds that were confiscated by the FBI were put in a secure location for potention further reference.

The secure location?

The World Trade Center.

All records in the National Archives are available to the public, for free.

http://www.archives.gov/research/start/plan-visit.html

Many records are also available online, here: http://aad.archives.gov/aad/. They don't seem to include sound recordings yet, though.

I know these reels have been discussed a lot, but why are they "unfindable" ? Lost ? Erased ? Copyrights ? I mean, Alan Boyd and Mark Linett maybe could've done some research this way ... I mean: they didn't ? they found nothing ? they found things but not the whole stuff ? they couldn't manage to clear the rights for use, etc, etc, etc ....

Is there an expert of the "Inside Pop" affair who could explain ? Thanks.

Jungle Music?  I only heard it once over the phone along with a snippet of the Brian/VDP composing tape for SOS.  It sounded exactly like jungle music.  Drums, strange sounds that I always felt would have somehow ended up in "The Elements".  A distant cousin of "Fire".

Years ago I heard some unreleased Smile material via the phone that I have never heard again.

Specifically, what appeared to be a demo of "The Elements".  Or at least three parts of it.  I also heard what could be described as "Jungle Music" in The Elements vain.

I still think a chunk of the 66/67 Smile puzzle sits unsolved with the acetates/tapes in the possession of Durrie Parks.

Also, music that people on this board heard in the 80's (With me tonight, H&V sessions, etc.), has never been released.

The sound recordings were what I was focusing on, and short of a collection of old opera recordings on vinyl and the like, I don't believe you can walk in and request *fill in the artist* recording take 2 of *fill in the song* or even a vintage radio broadcast in the collection at this time. And apparently the collection is beyond what many might think would exist in such a collection. Which is a great thing - if we can hear some of the one-of-a-kind stuff and not just the usual.

They did. The box set track listings are a primo indication of what was found.

The hunt for the Inside Pop reels hit a brick wall in a dead end a few years ago. We were lucky in that Oppenheim's own notes turned up.

You were right the guy who played it to me over the phone said it was a Smile outtake.  Maybe he was wrong.  Now he was indeed right about the Elements demo which was subsequently bootlegged.

Yup I guess that was indeed me who posted the Jungle Music info.  Could swear somebody else mentioned it.

You were right the guy who played it to me over the phone said it was a Smile outtake.  Maybe he was wrong.  Now he was indeed right about the Elements demo which was subsequently bootlegged.
Then again I was still in shock hearing the Sail on Sailor composing tape.

Durrie Parks.  She told me in an email that she had Smile acetates and tapes.  What a letdown to know it was all fruitless.

Can somebody explain this?

What was on those acetates

Nothing of any real interest, apparently.

I don't get it. Is Jungle Music a real thing, or are people just having fun?

Is Jungle Music a real thing?

Huh ?  Never heard this, or indeed heard of it.  Care to Point Me in the right direction ?

I recall well the fabled stories of headphone bleed, but if all the folks who've heard the box are to be believed, none of that has made it to the set. Look supposedly has just a couple of sparse vocals, and CIFOTM just an extra harmony or something, right? And I think those were the only two tracks where headphone bleed was mentioned...

The Elements demo was the piece which had the Vega-tables chant followed by the water chant and what appeared to be fire noises.  It seemed to be three parts of The Elements.  LIsten it was a long time ago. 
Is Jon Hunt on this site because he heard it as well as the Jungle music?
Either way, next time he is on Hoffman's board I'll ask him.

The Elements demo was the piece which had the Vega-tables chant followed by the water chant and what appeared to be fire noises.  It seemed to be three parts of The Elements.  LIsten it was a long time ago. 
Is Jon Hunt on this site because he heard it as well as the Jungle music?
Either way, next time he is on Hoffman's board I'll ask him.

The hunt for the Inside Pop reels hit a brick wall in a dead end a few years ago. We were lucky in that Oppenheim's own notes turned up.

What's the deal with "Brian Farts Into The Piano"? Is it a real track?

It's "falls" not the other word.

Thank you so much for clearing the air on this one. I bet I would have listened to this track more repeatedly than that nonsense on Psychedelic Sounds. I might have even made a ring tone out of it. Maybe it's time for another piping hot clam chowder enema.

This jungle music is now officially history like "remember the zoo" :hat

So that now leaves "Do a lot with toothbrushing sound effects", can this be written off??

I actually think we might have even HEARD this already. You know the section of Vega-Tables that's been included in the new mix off Facebook, the slow 'Do A Lot' part with the Beach Boys doing weird backing vocals ('ro, ro, ro ro...' and 'de ull-ah, de-ull-ah...')? That has a weird kind of fluttery, brushing sound in the background occasionally. I wonder whether an excitable fan just heard that for the first time at one point and thought 'Hey, they're brushing their teeth!!!!'. And it all went from there.

You must have missed me saying here and on the Hoff, repeatedly, that while her 'review' is broadly accurate, there are odd omissions.

So, I asked Jon Hunt about the "Elements" demo, and "Jungle Music". Here's his response:

"Fan edit big time. That appeared on some boot or other and is just bits of Psychodelic Sounds mashed together. I don't know what Jungle Music even IS!"

In that respect, I also wonder that about Vosse and his description of the tag to Wind Chimes in the Fusion article. It's often said that there must have been further versions of Wind Chimes we haven't yet heard, because we haven't heard what Vosse describes there. But a differently mixed test version of the tinkling piano tag to Wind Chimes, the one that closes the mix on the Good Vibrations box set SMiLE version of Wind Chimes, could sound exactly like what Vosse describes. It has loads of overdubbed pianos, to which interesting delay and echo effects could have been added at the mix, and that would have created something very like what he described in the Fusion piece... but from the same basic piece of tape that we all know already. In other words... we might have already heard what he was talking about, just in a different mix.

Vosse describes the vocals coming in, one at a time, like percussion instruments, if I remember correctly.  so it wouldn't be the piano end bit but the "chorus" or Part 2 section.  

However, in the first paragraph quoted above, I just can't make head nor tail of what he's supposed to be saying. I've read that part several times over the years and it just sounds like complete gibberish. Before Micha leaps in here, it's entirely possible that what he said was inaccurately transcribed by the Fusion journalist, who might have mangled what he said. But going by the printed quote, which of course is all we have, it just sounds like drug-addled guff to me!

Anyone else have this feeling? OR, more interestingly, does anyone get a clear sense of what he means from that quote? If so - can you explain it to me...?   ;)

The only thing that I can think of is this:

Brian had the instruments mixed to one (or two) of the eight tracks, and a vocal part of some sort on each of the remaining tracks, with each vocal singing a different note or notes.  Then he would play back the instruments with the vocal channels muted, but one by one he would bring up a channel(s) of vocals, and then mute it again, and then bring up another channel(s) of vocals (singing a different note or notes), and then mute that, and repeat the process in a rhythmic manner, so that he could get a percussion like thing with different notes popping up.  I don't know.  Did the early 8 track boards have a 'mute' function?  H?  Guitarfool?  Whatever Vosse is trying to describe, it sounds fascinating.  

can't you just slide the volume thing up or down really quick?

The only thing that I can think of is this:

Brian had the instruments mixed to one (or two) of the eight tracks, and a vocal part of some sort on each of the remaining tracks, with each vocal singing a different note or notes.  Then he would play back the instruments with the vocal channels muted, but one by one he would bring up a channel(s) of vocals, and then mute it again, and then bring up another channel(s) of vocals (singing a different note or notes), and then mute that, and repeat the process in a rhythmic manner, so that he could get a percussion like thing with different notes popping up.  I don't know.  Did the early 8 track boards have a 'mute' function?  H?  Guitarfool?  Whatever Vosse is trying to describe, it sounds fascinating.  

This sounds like what Vosse is talking about - quick up and downs on the faders to have the voices punch in with the rhythm - which they already are doing in this section anyway - ba ba ba, right along with the beat.  Obviously a very different mix to what we have.

Great interpretations of Vosse's statement here, thanks guys! What he said is consistent with the muting ideas described here. However...

I believe the 'muting' of the backing track on Sloop John B was achieved in a different, much more old-fashioned and cumbersome way. I think Brian made a mono mix with backing and vocals playing throughout, and then a mono mix of the acapella section with just the voices and no backing, and spliced the acapella section into the mono master in just the right place to achieve 'muting' in a much more complicated, 'off-line' way than we could do it today. Today we'd just hit a Mute button. But I don't think that kind of real-time mixing-as-performance stuff was was as simple to do then as it is now.

Obviously, on some tracks, we hear the levels or panning in the mix being manipulated as it's being made, not always with impressive results (think the end of the first Help Me Ronda, or the wacky panning near the end of Do It Again). But I don't believe the kind of real-time muting described here was possible back in 1967... unless Brian had a custom switch or switches made for the mix channels.

That doesn't rule it out, though!

Haven't been around for a couple of weeks… it's been mad in the office and B has had his work cut out with all the Liam Fox stuff this week, although we have had the odd look at this thread and a bit of a giggle-I mean, St Etienne?? People, get real. Who do you think you are?

Anyway we've all been round S's place all weekend, with some nice food, a few bottles of wine and some smokes (not for B, though, obviously, a man in his position), and we thought we'd break out Smile again (it seems to go well when youre in that kind of mood…). And B said he wanted to set a few things straight for you guys anyway. So we wrote this, and finished it tonight. I've spent most of it staring at Big Ben and the lights in the Houses of Parliament. S's flat has a brilliant view of the river, he's a lucky bastard.

You know the more I hear the 60s smile, the more I like it. There's something about those old Beach Boy voices. I think Wonderful is still my favourite, with Surf's Up right behind it, but the Beach Boys versions are starting to beat the ones on my Brian Wilson Smile CD the more I listen. Brett has offered to burn me a mix CD, so I can hear In Blue Hawaii with all the words but listen to the Beach Boys sing Wonderful.

Anyway I just thought I'd say hi really. B is the one who's really on the mike tonight. He's got a load of stuff he's wanted to say based on that notebook of his. Hes been typing away for hours, hope you enjoy it!

Leila x
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
So here are some detailed notes for you all, starting at Disk 1 and going on through to the end of Disk 2. Some of this I wrote in between trying to save the ex-foreign secretary's arse this week (seven days of my life I won't see again), some of it I wrote last night while I was a bit loose and floppy. So dont set the spelling police on me.

Overall, the set sounds friggin great. Beautiful audio quality throughout. The mono mixes are tight and punchy, the stero thoughtfully panned. I feel like plug-in reverb is used a lot, and probably more than I'd like, but we'll get to that. Generally, though, this is way better quality than even the best quality boots. I bought round my silver copies of the Sea Of Tunes SMiLE disks with me so we could compare, and even those CDs, which I thought were release quality back in the day, sound quite faint and hissy compared to this. I can't wait to hear this set on vinyl!!

Disk 1 - all mono unless I say otherwise
Our Prayer. Not many surprises here. No high note at the end, I guess that was a 20/20 thing.

Gee. Nothing new here either, weve all heard this so many times. Ends on the fluttertone horn, like BWPS, but fades pretty much out before H&V starts properly.

H&V. Nothing to report here, youve all heard this right? Seems a bit weird to have the fluttertone _again_ at the end of the song tho. Pretty much fades out before Worms starts.

Worms: pretty much exactly like the box set mix from the 90s. No verse vocals. No full bicycle rider or conceret ribbon vocals on the first chorus. Tape warp vocals section, but the warp has been fixed - still no verse vocals here. You _do_ get the full Bicycle Rider vocals on the second chorus, with 'to the church of the American Indian' then the usual Wahala lu lay part, followed by the final Rock Roll bit, but instrumental only. Oh, another difference - like BWPS, the track stops after the music box 'breaks down', but doesn't start up again like it used to. Instead, you get the woo-woos again (so thats twice we've had that part now too) and it's straight into Great Shape.

IIGS: This sounds a little bit different from the takes that leaked a few years ago, but it might just be re-edited. I still don't like the vocals flown in from the demo. You really notice the piano dropping out when the vocal stops. And the tape echo explosion is a bit weak. Like I said before, this doens't really crossfade into Barnyard, just fades after the 'echo explosion', and then Barnyard starts.

BY: The flown-in vocals stand out even more on this one, because there's only piano playing (from the demo) while the vocals are singing. Dead giveaway. Otherwise it's all there, sounding clean with all the animal noises, no dropouts. The ending sounded a bit funny to me, there's a short crossfade into Sunshine. Might just be S's version playing wierd.

TOMP/YAMS: Pretty standard. It's the version with Dennis Wilson singing. After the descending strings, you get the Barnshine fade with the faint extra words. They're just as hard to hear as they always were. I like that this is here, though. The Disk 1 version of H&V doesn't have False Barnyard on it to fade, so you get to hear it here on YAMS instead. Cool.

Cabin Essence. You've all heard this. I see some people at the Smiley board have spotted the extra vocals on the Truck Driving Man part now. Those vocals are not just on the Mojo single, their on this too.

Wonderful. You've all heard this from the Mojo single too, right? It's the same here, yodels and all. There is more reverb on the rising bass at the end to tie it into Look here though. Not sure I like the reverb.

Look: same as it ever was, except there's one second of 'Child, Child, the Child' vocals on each chorus. There's a proper fade on this version, no crossfade to CIFOTM like on BWPS.

CIFOTM: I described this one the other week. It's the Boys singing high Child vocals with the piano to start (like on Sea Of Tunes Volume 16), then the slow piano part with the bass, then the chorus, then the verse (with the echoed electric guitar), then the second chorus with a new high vocal, and then the track finshes with the bass notes. The word is this was from some acetate, but it doesn't sound like it. Maybe only a part of it is? But no part sounds worse than any other. As far as I can tell, the only new part is the high vocal on the second chorus… and Brian's three-minute mono mix is nowhere to be heard, and I do mean _anywhere_ on this set. Why leave out a perfectly good 1966 BW mono mix?

Surf's Up: Ive described this too-it's like the version on the Surf's Up album from 1971, only with Brian's vocals over the first section instead of Carl's. Everything else is there though, the "bygones" and also Carl sings the 'canvas the town…' line after verse 1 and 2. Section 2 is just Brain and the piano again, and this time there's no 70s Moog overdubs. The tag is the full vocal section with all the Beach Boys, but it sounds different here and there, I'm pretty sure it's a new mix.

IWBA/WS: pretty standard, just like on all the boots, no vocals anywhere.

Vega-Tables: you've all heard this, except workshop crossfades out on this version like BWPS! I will be editing the fade back out using the workshop sounds hidden track.

Holidays: Great to hear this in primo quality at last, but the ending crossfades into the Whispering Winds vocals at the end like BWPS, which drives me nuts. How come some tracks follow BWPS so closely, and others don't? Have to get the editing software out again here.

Wind Chimes: First two verses from Version 2 (October 66), choruses from Verrsion 1 (August 66), piano bridge and the rest of the track from Take 5 of Version 1. Otherwise all pretty much as we've heard on boots and official releases.

Fire: With the H&V intro stapled on the front. Thanks, David Leaf. And with Purple Chick Fall Breaks vocals that don't fit properly (because of where they come from, they fade out too soon). But at least this time it sounds like they have used Brian's mono mix, with the crackling fire, for at least part of it (I can definitely hear the crackling near the end of the track).

ILTSDD: with the Water chant on the front, like BWPS. ILTSDD is juts like the 1993 mix, except there's a jazz vocal flown in from 'Cool Cool Water' over the verses. Don't know _why_ that's there. The track ends exactly where the 1993 mix does, only there's loads more reverb on the piano to take the track into the reprise of Our Prayer, like on BWPS. Not sure I like all this plug-in reverb over everything. Why couldn't they use proper echo chambers or mix it at Western or Sunset or something? Even BWPS got that right

Good Vibrations: you've all heard this. Just like 1966 except for the hum-de-dums and the longer fade.

You're Welcome: exactly as on the 1990 twofer, mono as well.

H&V (Stereo mix): does what it says on the tin - this is a stereo version of the mono version on the Disc 1 'album' that you've all heard already.

H&V Sections: likewise, this is a stereo mix of all the sections in the track of the same name on the Good Vibratons box set, except for a few differences: the Prelude to Fade section finishes on a different take, featuring repeating whistles, snare and the descending strings. The swedish frog part misses out the person actually saying that phrase. And after all the heroes and villains choruses and the slow 'dut-dut-dut, heroes and villains' part, there are a couple of new bits, a version of "Tag To Part 1" with an extra piano overdub on it, the 'dumb whistle' section (although it fades out before the 'echo explosion'), and _then_ the False Barnyard tag to fade.

Vega-Tables demo: in stereo. Sounds pristine, otherwise like Secret SMiLE.

He Gives Speeches: in stereo, at the right speed, sounds great. Not too 'clappy', like some versions. Brain can be heard to say at the end of this track "this is going to be _so_ great… I'm not kidding."

SMiLE Vocal Montage: I'm not into vocal-only mixes, but if there your thing, knock yourselves out. Eight and a half minutes of SMiLE backing vocals in stereo, some wierd, some wonderful, all not sounding as cool as the full arrangements if you ask me. I hear multiple H&V sections, Wonderful verse BVs, Cabin Essence (all sections represented, but no leads… and no Truck Drivin' Man either), Worms, Wind Chimes and Vega-Tables (I never realised there was so much to those vocals on the fade. Leila loves this bit, and the slow "I know that you'll feel better…" section with all the harmonies).

Surf's Up 67: A, if not _the_, standout track. More "uncertain" than the delivery of the December 66 piano demo, but beautifully sung, and with _that_ detuned Wild Honey piano! Slightly different rhythmic emphasis here and there in the song. A great unexpected key change near the end, after the line 'mmm mmm mmm mmm aboard a tidal wave'. And although it's just the rising and falling wordless vocal at the end, there's such passion in it. After the final lyric line 'a children's soooooong', Brian sort of "miaows out" one of those little falling vocal melismas of his that will knock you off your feet, to lead in to the tag. Just incredible.

Brian Falls Into A Piano: If you've heard Psychedelic Sounds, you've heard this. It's as funny then as it was there. For the seriously baked only.

Disk 2

All of the sessions are heavily edited, so if you know the boots that feature extended session stuff, you'll find plenty missing. However sometimes the sessions feature chat and singing that wasn't ever booted, which is cool. Often you hear the group or musicians running through rehearsals or early takes for the sections, then the final take appears at the end of the track, sometimes with double-tracked vocal overdubs in stereo (if any were ever done). Most of these tracks are in stereo.

Our Prayer Sessions-The first (September 66) session features the group rehearsing, tripping and quite sloppy and off key. This is the booted session with the famous lines 'Denny, do you have any hash joints left? I know you do' and 'are you guys feeling the acid yet?' - both of which are included here, I thought theyd get cut! If you've wondered what a Smiley Smile version of Prayer might sound like, this three minute track shows you, although the excerpt doesnt showcase the band finishing all the sections.

The second session (from a few weeks later) was unknown to me before hand. Here the group are more together vocally (see kids, drugs are bad for your harmony…), and it seems this was the session that produced the final takes used in the master. Brian jokes with Al Jardine in the middle about breaking his leg on the football field back in the day.

Track 3 is the backing track for the first two H&V verses. Van Dyke is on this-Brian calls him in at the end. Great to hear this clean and in stereo.

Track 4-A clean master take of Barnyard! Backing and stereo BVs. Nothing new otherwise though.

Track 5-Lots of run throughs of I'm In Great Shape from October 66. The three booted takes of this come from this session, but this is much more complete. Van Dyke starts out playing celeste, but Brian says the overtones are 'uncool' and he switches to piano. Eventually Van Dyke's part is taken by a harpist for the master take and VDP switches to conducting. The tape echo explosion effect is mixed into the track live as it's played, but it's applied lightly to the final take.

Track 6-Called out as 'H&V Part 3', this dates from December 66 and is the chime-heavy version of the H&V intro that's been on the circuit for a while.

Track 7-A previously booted january 67 run-through of "Sleep A Lot, Eat A Lot, Brush Em Like Crazy", performed to a heavy piano backing. Brian threatens to "split" at the start of this track "if there isn't more cooperation". So perhaps he was going solo?

Track 8-Bag Of Tricks session. All the Boys and Bruce too! Brian talks about getting a "police officer friend of his" to play tunes on his electric siren, and mentions using touch-tone phone keys to play melodies. I didn't even know that _had_ those phones in the 60s. Anyway, we hear a couple of pretty crazy takes with duck sounds and scraping percussion. Brain encourages everyone by saying "there's no rules to this". Someone comments that the scraping percussion sounds like 'someone eating vegetables'. Perhaps this comment planted the seed of an idea (ha ha)? The track finishes up with the Bag Of Tricks take that's been booted a while.

Track 9-Mission Pak. Vocals for "Soul Made Beautiful". Brian asks everyone to smile as their singing! Previously booted.

Track 10-Bridge To Indians. The harmony passage used years later in "Goin' On" being tried out, first with a different ending chord, but eventually it's the take heard at the end of the new H&V. Previously booted.

Track 11-Tag To Part 1. This is the 'Do A Lot' theme, on two tack pianos, with no vocals. A third tack piano is overdubbed. Previously booted on H&V Sessions Part 2.

Track 12-Pickup to 3rd verse. This is just a shorter, much faster version of Bridge To Indians, missing the final chord. I don't remember hearing this before.

Track 13-this is the edited session for the early version of 'My children were raised', as used in the February Cantina version. We hear the final version get two sets of overdubs, including the lead vocals. Previously booted.

Track14-the session for the piano track to the Cantina section. Brian calls it out as 'Heroes & Villains Part 2', but there are lots of these part 2 sections to come. He was obviously making up a lot of this stuff as he went along.

Track 15-PReviously booted as "Dumb Whistle". This is the part with the "dum dum dum" vocals and the whistling that had the echo explosion added to it on the February 1967 Cantina mix.

Track 16-The edited Cantina section session, right through to the final version in stereo with the "woo-woos" and "You're Under Arrest". Previously booted.

Track 17-All Day session. Some takes of this circulate, but there's some stuff here I never heard before. Brian plays a bass-heavy piano middle eight, and after a few incomplete takes of the verse, mentions having "a bunch of talking" during the pauses in the music! Nobody actually does any talking though. Another idea that never got anywhere?

Track 18-a mono edit (presumably by Brian?) of the first and second verses going straight into "Bridge To Indians" with an "old phonograph" effect on the Bridge To Indians harmonies (and to think I thought they made that up for BWPS!). I think this used to circulate at the SMiLE Shop board years ago, but I always thought it was a fan edit… Sounds pretty good.

Track 19-Prelude To Fade Session. Previously booted. You get to hear the alternate takes they used for the new H&V, with the descending strings, as well as the one used on the Good Vibrations box set that lacks the strings.

Track 20 - multiple takes of the piano-only H&V/Bicycle Rider theme. I don't recognise a lot of these takes, although some of this is on the H&V Sessions Part 2 boot.

Track 21-Another section described by Brian as "Heroes And Villains Part 2", this was also on the H&V Sessions Part 2 boot and features Brian rehearsing a beautiful rag-time style section with occasional accapella rehearsal harmonies from the assembled group, though. We never hear a finished version of the section, though. Such a shame, this sounds like it might have been brilliant.

Track 22 is the "Gee" session and master take, previously booted.

Track 23-this is announced as Heros and Villians, Part 2 (revised version), and eventually becomes the section with Mike Love grunting 'a-heroes, a-heroes, a-heroes and a-villains' in the background, but the session reveals something new - Bruce Johnston and Brian messing around with some musical comedy on the piano. Bruce (whose playing the piano here) hits a big old piano chord that isn't in the final take and then asks Brian if it's 'villanus' enough for him. The final take misses that chord out, however.

Track 24 sees all the final vocals put on to the piano recorded in track 23.

Track 25 is the H&V section that leads into the Swedish Frog grunting. The actual words Swedish Frog have been mixed out of every other version of this section on the box set for some reason, but they are included here at least.

Track 26 is the session for the slow 'dum dum dum' section with heroes and villains vocals over the top. Nothing amazingly new here, although it is credited as Heroes and Villains part 4.

Track 27 is also called Heroes And Villains PArt 2, but is the section that became the chorus in the single version of H&V. This is the original recording with the metallic percussion and the heavy base playing scales though.

Track 28 is the session for the re-recorded fade, the one where Carl is singing along live in the studio with the session players. This was circulating years ago, but I don't think all of the musical takes were included, just the in-between take studio chatter. Some include a strange whistling, wheezing sound that I don't remember before, which Brian calls 'the bird' at one point.

Track 29-an attempt to re-record the verse as well. This was previously booted and is the session where Brian asks Chuck Britz about changing the pitch of the track with an "asilator".

Track 30 is the previously booted session for the H&V Intro, as glued to the start of Fire on Disk 1 and BWPS. The Organ Waltz is a creepy part played by Van Dyke during the session that eventually gets dropped out of the arrangement.

Tracks 31 to 35 are apparently all Smiley Smile sessions, from mid-June 1967. 31 is the H&V chorus vocals used in the single and Smiley Smile version. 32 is for Sonny Down Snuff, and is the previously booted session where somebody asks for a drunken or stoned Mike Love to be bought a dildo and bag of money. They _have_ cut that part, although you can hear that Mike is either drunk or baked. 33 is the electric harpsichord track for the slower version of "My Children Were Raised" heard on the Smiley Smile version of H&V. 34 then lets us hear the first layer of vocal overdubs and Baldwin chords for this section, and then 35 presents the final vocals acapella.

The Heroes and Villains-fest finally comes to an end on Track 36 with the unedited demo for Humble Harve with H&V, Great Shape and two runs at Barnyard.

Tracks 37 and 38 are more edited excerpts from the Psychedelic Sounds tapes. These aren't even as funny as the one on Disk 1.

Oh and lastly, S let me hear H&V Parts 1 and 2 tonight for the first time, too. Part 1 is just the Cantina version, exactly the same as the twofer was in 1990, even down to the woo-woos being edited out after "dance margarita… dance". It cuts straight to "your under arrest". Part 2 is mostly like the Sections mix on the Good Vibrations set from the early 90s, it starts with Gee and runs through all those H&V choruses, including swedish frog (but again, the person actually _saying_ swedish frog is mixed out!) It goes all the way through to the slow "dut-dut-dut, Heros and Villains" section, but then instead of the False Barnyard fade, you get a couple of bars of "Tag To Part 1", then Prelude To Fade (the country and western theme) and finally, after the fluttertone horn, the re-recorded version of the fade, the one with Carl doing jazzy scatting live in the studio. I'm not sure how real this is, and how much it's a bit of a 2011 fan mix. What's "Tag To Part 1" doing near the end of Part 2?

That's it for Heroes And Villains. I wrote notes up on Disks 3 and 4, but it's too late tonight to post those. I'll message them to Leila tomorrow and she can put them up then.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

More from me tomorrow then! I'm going to bed, or I'll never get to work in the morning.

Leila x

goshdarnIT! WHY DID I READ?!?!?!?!??!?!?? I SHAT MYSELF!

Surf's Up: Ive described this too-it's like the version on the Surf's Up album from 1971, only with Brian's vocals over the first section instead of Carl's. Everything else is there though, the "bygones" and also Carl sings the 'canvas the town…' line after verse 1 and 2. Section 2 is just Brain and the piano again, and this time there's no 70s Moog overdubs. The tag is the full vocal section with all the Beach Boys, but it sounds different here and there, I'm pretty sure it's a new mix.

Holidays: Great to hear this in primo quality at last, but the ending crossfades into the Whispering Winds vocals at the end like BWPS, which drives me nuts.

the one thing i didn't want was just the BWPS arrangements on every song put in it.  i'm still holding out for it not being just the bare bones stuff.

Whilst it all sounds great, I would only point out that it wasn't the Foreign Secretary but the Defence Secretary who lost his job - not that I am casting doubt on the post at all - just saying

As I just posted on the Hoff board too, there's no mention of the hidden track 28 at the end of Disc One, which you'd think would merit some mention  –  these folk clearly don't believe in holding back from spoilers!

Weren't they streaming it? Maybe the hidden tracks weren't steamed.

Whilst it all sounds great, I would only point out that it wasn't the Foreign Secretary but the Defence Secretary who lost his job - not that I am casting doubt on the post at all - just saying

I always thought the boots sounded great so the sound is no big deal for me.

Indeed - someone's trying way too hard to establish a persona.  ;D

I always thought the Sea of Tunes  and Vigotones boots sounded fine.  Not perfect but more than acceptable.  The reality is that there isn't a lot of revelations on The Smile Sessions it appears.  Hey, they have nice artwork, vinyl and a great liner notes etc.

None I repeat none of the holy grail is in this box.  The stuff is lost or erased.  End of story.

We get a nice Wild Honey outtake and that's about it.

I always thought the Sea of Tunes  and Vigotones boots sounded fine.  Not perfect but more than acceptable.  The reality is that there isn't a lot of revelations on The Smile Sessions it appears.  Hey, they have nice artwork, vinyl and a great liner notes etc.

None I repeat none of the holy grail is in this box.  The stuff is lost or erased.  End of story.

We get a nice Wild Honey outtake and that's about it.

I've heard all this stuff too... and the box is just amazing. In some respects, I've not heard it all before, because the difference between the original multitracks and a 4th generation cassette dub is significant. "Cornucopia", for example.

So AGD - that Mr B is really down on all the fly ins and cross fades within the disc 1 sequence - the Cool Water vocals, Fall Breaks fly ins etc. Are you able to comment on how the playable album sounds to you? Are you happy with it overall? Any disappointments? Is it worthy of the title 'Smile'?!

Always bear this in mind - CD1 tracks 1-19 is aimed at Joe Public, not us, and I'm more than happy enough with it. The fly-ins are never too glaringly obvious and the mono mix is so good you soon forget it's not stereo. Of course, it's sorely vocally incomplete in parts, but if you were happy with BWPS, you'll like this, a lot. The biggest disappointment for me is the complete absence of Brian's fall 1966 edit/mono mix of the "Child" track. I expect there's a reason but even so...

And the bvs montage will just curl your hair. An eight-minute eargasm.

I think there's one part of that last Leila post that we should be taking better stock of: as it's so eloquently put, we're going to have 5 CDs of pristine quality material to mess around with ourselves, and if something on disc 1 doesn't sound right, it can be easily changed.

Maybe the '66 mix of CIFOTM track will be an easter egg or available in some special way.

Maybe they're saving something for a possible "50th anniversary box set"?

Maybe it's just that they couldn't find it in listenable quality as well.

Some folk.

This makes me think of those folk who express disappointment when their first-born isn't the gender they'd hoped for.

Brian Wilson?

Top 5! Great post

How has this woman actually heard the album, is she a freelance journalist or something

Correct... but neither were the tracks from the 2nd CD of the 2CD set.  ;)

Leila said that B 'finally let her hear H&V parts 1 and 2' or something. Which makes me think it was from another source rather than the stream.

Maybe they're saving something for a possible "50th anniversary box set"?

Claims to have two friends, one of whom is something to do with Westminster, who have access to a review stream. Seeing as she managed to confuse the Defence Secretary (who has just resigned amid considerable scandal) with the Foreign Secretary (who hasn't), the consensus on the Hoff is, bull.  ;D

What a nut!

I'm pretty sure it's Mark Linett having a laugh

What a nut!

I'm pretty sure it's Mark Linett having a laugh

"Okay, fellow execs, so we need to put together a 50th anniversary box. Of course, we're going to have to include the hits, just like the 30th anniversary box set did, but what else do we need?"
"Oh, I know what all the fans have just been clamoring for. Let's see. Of course, we need to include 'Good Vibrations,' 'Kokomo,' and 'Surfin' Safari.' How about that 1966 mix of 'Child Is Father Of The Man'?"
"YEAH!!! That'll guarantee that we sell a million units!"

Yeah, that's pretty disappointing. I think they did the best they could though. At least we get cool new photos, some new session excerpts and the music is (I hope) in much better quality!

This makes me think of those folk who express disappointment when their first-born isn't the gender they'd hoped for.

Hopes should've been kept modest all along, really. Yeah, you hope the supposed 2nd section of "Surf's Up" was found, but was it ever really likely? Naw.

The bootlegs served their purpose, but I'm geeked the f*ck out over hearing stuff like "Barnyard" and "Holidays" in good quality after years of subpar quality. It being an official release of this thing (finally!), the liner notes, the sound quality clarity, and the handful of stuff none of us have ever heard make this very worthwhile, to me.

One of the cooler things about this is how comprehensive they were with their inclusions, thus giving us even more options as far as making our own mixes. We get their edit of "Heroes And Villains", but then we also get several of the bits and pieces to work with ourselves. This is one of the few recent releases like this where they realized what they had, they realized what people wanted, and they did as best they could on it. I'm pretty thankful for that.

Spoilers


Disk 4

 that's pretty much it-apart from the final track on Disk 4, which is a late surprise bonus. It's a whole load of H&V mono mix sections edited together. Judging by the track title ("Early Version Outtake Sections") and the sound of these, perhaps these were all done by Brian at the time of his assembly of the Cantina mix. Certainly some of the parts in that version are here, but there are also a load that didn't make that version, and some which are usually thought to belong to Part 2, if there ever was one, like "Gee" and the upbeat "a-Heroes and a-Villains" choruses. Or maybe this track _is_ another early edit version, although the splices are rougher in a couple of spots than they are on the February 1967 version.

Here's what you get, anyway: the first two verses of H&V, just like on the Cantina mix, edited straight into the "dumb whistle" part (there's no "echo explosion", though) and then the early "Children were raised" section. After "often wise" and the piano, we get the third verse with 'still got the jive to survive with the Heroes and Villains'. The backing track then continues, with verse backing vocals like the ones after the second verse in the Cantina mix underneath, but not acapella like they are in the Cantina version. I really dig this assembly. Trouble is, it just fades out towards the end of the section, and then edits badly into the "In The Cantina…" part, which goes through to full unedited woo-woos and banjo, but no "You're Under Arrest". Instead, "Gee" starts up. The track then runs through the Part 2 H&V chorus sections as on Mark Linett's old H&V Sections mix on the Good Vibrations set, but with a couple of omissions. Some bars are edited out, not very well it must be said, there are some odd handclap overdubs, and the Swedish Frog section is missing. Also, the track edits straight to the False Barnyard fade instead of including the slow "dut-dut-dut" section, and ends there.

Looking back to Sea Of Tunes 17, I think this might be an oober-re-edit of all of the mono mix attempts documented on Disk 1 of that set-some of these dodgy edits and the handclap overdubs are definitely the same as on some of those mono mix attempts. If that's true, then these are actual BW mixes, re-edited in 2011 into something more coherent. It still doesn't hang together particularly well, and there are still lots of missing pieces (could you live with a 67 edit without "You're Under Arrest?") but this might be the closest purists ever get to a long Brian-mixed Heroes and Villains. Unless, of course, the edit sequence is _also_ 67-vintage. We may never know, unless the sleeve notes let on...

That is very very interesting - IMHO

Finally, there are a number of one-off tracks. I've described some of these already in Leila's earlier posts. The session for "You're Welcome" (Track 16) is hilarious, with the group at first attempting to achieve the effect of gradually arriving while singing the song by starting outside the studio, marching in and up to the mike as their singing. Sensibly, they chose to achieve this using echo during the mixing eventually, as the realist approach doesnt work. There's also a bizarre interlude after the master take where they try another feel, singing as though their all old people with quavery, Granpa Simpson-style voices. The engineer is non-plussed. "Uhh, Brian… the other take was better…"

**Spoilers**


This sounds too funny for words! This session is unbooted, right?

I'm psyched that takes 4 and 6 of Fire are included - they are not on SOT or Secret Smile or BBOV - they're "cut out" with just the ending of the take included.

I was really hoping that in the session "excerpts" Alan and Mark would deliberately include takes that have NOT been previously booted, and they appear to have done that with Fire.

For discs 3 and 4, besides the session chatter, we have new takes of:

DYLW verse
DYLW chorus/BR
DYLW hawaiian section
YAMS - new complete late take
Wonderful Aug 66 - several run throughs with one complete take
CIFOTM - remake, three takes of chorus
IWBA/FN - an excerpt of "Jazz"
Vegetables - sleep a lot section vocal session
Fade to Vegetables - unclear if there are any takes on here not previously booted
Vegetables ballad insert session
Holidays - session for tag
Wind Chimes - remake version with some early takes
Wind Chimes remake tag session
Fire takes 4, 6 and maybe one other unbooted session
Love to Say Dada - early run throughs on piano and one complete take on Fender rhodes
Cool Cool Water WH session
You're Welcome session
I don't Know
Teeter Totter Love

I have to say this is more previously unbooted material than I thought we would get!

Track 17-the session for the backing for the second version of CIFOTM, the October 11th 1966 one that was used as the model for the BWPS version of the track. As far as I know, this was never booted, and it's one of the more interesting sessions. Brian is obviously in a hurry, he asks Chuck Britz to work fast at the start of the session excerpt. Chuck protests that he's ready, and they go straight into recording the chorus. We hear an early run-through, and the excitement in the studio at how great the track is sounding is palpable ("It's gonna sound great!" "Oh, it's beautiful, man!"). After two more full run-throughs of the chorus, Brian (whose on the studio floor working with the musicians) works on the trumpet part, concerned that the trumpet is "speaking late" compared to the rest of the musicians. He accepts a suggestion from the trumpet player, who tries adjusting his mute. ("You wanna hear this thing…" [sound of mute being adjusted] …tighter? This is the Henry Busse sound, but it fits…"). The trumpet line, which the player then demonstrates solo, gets the "pinched" sound used on the finished track. Everyone is knocked out. Someone says "greeeeat!" and Brian comments with wonder "whuh… that sounds more like A BABY! THAT'S OUR BABY!!!" (And it sort of does) Brian then calls it " Outtasight!" and thanks the guy. It's a sweet little exchange. Immediately, we hear a take, although it isn't quite the final one, which is a shame, as we then move on to the verse session, with the delayed electric guitar. I never really understood how much of a rock and roll sound there is in that guitar, but you appreciate it when you hear the guitarist running through the changes solo before the main run-through-it sounds like a really country and western blues sound (remember what Dennis said…?). We only get one take of the verse, and it's not clear if it's the final one or not, and then we hear the session for the eerie bass and piano section (the one that finishes up the BWPS version of the track). Again, we only get one take of this, and it seems to be the final version. There are no vocal sessions, unfortunately, nor are there sessions for the vocal section with the piano which kicks off this track on the Disk 1 version of the album. Wierd.