The Smiley Smile Message Board

What happened to Brian's keyboard skills? There's a 1990ish performance of God Only Knows where Brian is looking real smart in a jacket and those Pet Sounds glasses, he plays very nicely and shows few signs of the strange playing he has demonstrated since and before in the 70s. I heard something of him playing piano and he sounded not much better than how I play. That is not a compliment from a musician's perspective really. To non musicians I can sound good playing, as would Brian, but to musicians I am obviously unlearned and just finding my way around it not with much knowledge. One thing I would personally enjoy far more than a full band production is a Brian solo album, even if just released online, or things he's recorded alone at home. I like hearing him alone writing music or playing what he likes.

I've wondered about that, and also about his seeming inability these days to play and sing at the same time.

Meh...he IS getting older.

Paul McCartney still doing raunchy renditions of the Charles Manson theme would disagree with you there...

There's something weird going on with it... he was a competent keyboardist in the 60s perhaps just from obsessive playing for the good of his career and over time it declined through neglect. He's always had his own uniquely simplistic style the way he taps out the rhythym with his right hand and his left hand right brain does all these crazy abstract bass movements that take your mind everywhere. He displayed this a little on the Mike Douglas show when he seemed to want to cut the sh*t and get the Sloop John B groove going somethin good, and for once he and the band grooved nicely for a bit and Brian played the bass line from the Pet Sounds version and it is very exciting to hear him display such an obvious knowledge of his instrument. These days... he's lifeless. The Heroes and Villains he played in a deep red shirt at a piano in a bluely lit darkish room with white socks and black shoes and black jeans was weird.... his big fish hands lightly tapping the chords instead of pounding the life out of them like Brian Wilson rock & roll mad genius in the HUmble Harv demo... what's up with that...

I'm more concerned when I see him having to read autocue when singing something like Good Vibrations.

His autocue also says things like, "Inhale, Exhale, Inhale, Exhale..." right?

Stand up. Sit Down. Smile. Do weird hand motions. Mok Mike Love-isms. Pretend to play piano, don't worry, it's not plugged into the mix.

[I don't mean to insult Brian if he really is at the point of oldism where he needs baby cards to tell him what to do but to me personally it all comes off as Brian's circus management keeping their performance bear from getting too eccentric - too much like, you know, himself.

If Brian Wilson was left to his own whims in presenting an audience performance art & music he would first lecture on Phil Spector for 45 minutes and then play Be My Baby on the piano several hundred times to make sure you really GET IT.

Eight years ago or so, this same subject came up on the old Smile shop board, and folks were complaining, "Hey, what's the deal with Brian's piano playing?  It's like he can barely play."

 I remember the late Bob Hanes explaining that Brian can (and does) still play beautifully.  Bob described watching Brian play flawlessly for an hour or so in a nearly empty venue before or after some show.   Whether it's due to stress or anxiety or some other reason, Brian's playing that YOU see at a live show (or when a camera is on) is not representative of his true ability.   This probably won't be a satisfying answer for some people, but the truth is often complicated.

Oh I can understand that - when I play piano around others I feel more inclined to do other things than I would in private. But I heard something that was not in a live situation and it still had a very disrupted disjointed unsure uncertain 'few years of experience' sound to it. That's just how it sounded to me. My initial impression really was, this sounds just like me playing. And I hate how badly I play.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOKJ-LJh4YE&feature=related

Wow, Danny Hutton & Brian should've done an album together, their voices are beautiful together and they have such a good friendship! Wow, what a great performance, Brian's voice is so good. Just so good.

LOVE DANNY'S SMILE AT THE END WHEN HE REALIZES AND INHALES DEEPLY - I JUST MADE MAGIC WITH BRIAN WILSON ONCE AGAIN. DING DANG HALLELUJAH.

Pretty much this. There are tales of BW being able to play Rhapsody in Blue in it's entirety - he's a very good piano player to do that from study alone, as is the story.

I wonder if the difference is that BW is just not that interested in being a musician per se. Sure he can play a bit when he needs to / feels like it but why would you bother honing technical playing skills when you can hear that in your head and get those guys to help play it / realise it so beautifully for you. There are plenty great artist writers who don't really cut it as musicians and some amazing musicians who couldn't conceive of a plate of scrambled eggs on toast without a score to tell them how and when. Even if there is a decline in the playing the artistic modus operandi seems fairly unchanged to me.
And there's a difference between needing Autocue and wanting Autocue isn't there? When BW started touring I heard from reliable source that he tended to make less mistakes when the screen failed. In one of my lines (broadcasting) they talk about pre-record vs live and the analogy of the tightrope walker - if there's a safety net you tend to fall...
As for him getting older - well, no way to dispute that.  ::)

Regarding the prompter...that's pretty standard. I've mentioned it time and time again on other fora, but MANY artists use prompters. In fact, on one of Paul McCartney's tour DVDs, there's a scene in which he's going over the "Hey Jude" lyrics on the prompter and correcting them. Conan O'Brien actually had his cue card guy make a cue card that said "We'll be right back" -- Gilbert Gottfried had a blast pointing that out. "Look at what a genius this guy is!" (shows the cue card to the audience). And of course, the 25th anniversary show: every single word, spoken and sung, on cue cards.

Years ago Foskett (I think; don't quote me on that) said that Brian's prompter only has the setlist on it...three problems with that: 1) why use an expensive piece of technology to just put the setlist on it when a piece of paper on a brightly-lit stage will work fine?, 2) Why didn't the REST of the band have same?, and 3) David Feldman had a front row seat at one of Brian's shows and had full view of Brian's teleprompter. He said not only did it scroll the lyrics, but it also had directions on it, such as "exit to the left," "talk here," etc. (During one of the Pet Sounds shows in 2000, it was clear that Brian's teleprompter indeed scrolled the lyrics -- and was messed up -- because he somehow awkwardly and inexplicably sang a line from "Love And Mercy" right in the middle of "That's Not Me.")

And wasn't it on February 20, 2004 in London when during the encore they were just about to start do it again and Brian stopped everybody and said his teleprompter died? Jeff said, "Brian, you KNOW 'Do It Again'!" And they performed it anyway, and Brian indeed did know it.

In 2008, Brian played at the Hammerstein Ballroom in New York with only five of the guys playing behind him. Besides several band members missing, two other things were missing: Brian's two teleprompters. He didn't use prompters AT ALL that night. It was clear that for the most part he indeed didn't need them, although there were one or two times when he forgot a word and Scott (who was on drums that night) stepped in and doubled/saved him, and I think it was only on the new tracks from the yet-to-be-released That Lucky Old Sun. Otherwise he was flawless.

And remember, it's one thing to be able to play piano and sing at the same time; it's another to play piano and sing consecutively while being watched by a huge crowd of people when you're in a normally uncomfortable situation in the first place.

Good post upside down Smile.

 :spin

Well, I watched the prompter for a good 30 minutes just 3 weeks ago, and it had a lot more than the setlist as I mentioned in my review.
It had lyrics to many songs but not all, apparently only the ones that Brian forgets. He still did. It also had instructions like [Brian Plays Piano] and [Brian Waves To Crowd, Exits Stage Right <----------] arrow pointing stage right. Pretty funny. Anyway, when he did forget the lyrics he smacked his forehead and muttered something as the lyrics were right there.

Basically he was completely ignoring the screen as it was one of his "on" nights. He also really, really played the keyboards, except for instrumentals and solos. After hearing so much about how it was unplugged, they just prop him up there - etc. It was nice to find out that these stories should be taken with a grain of salt. He played about as much as he could given the framework of the band that night, and really went at it for the Gershwin set. Ok, when he picked up the bass, he only played a few chords.

I don't think Brian really cares about being a musician per se.

He's a writer/producer/singer and with him it's all about the end result/product, which is a combination of many many elements.

Being "good" at any particular instrument isn't something he's probably ever really worried about (beyond 1964-65 at least).

Just a doggone shame he cannot live up to our expectations. Let's pile on some more and then let's do more after we're done with more piling on.  It feels good to do this and makes me feel like I'm the ultra-authority on this subject. How about when he sings off key or writes a song that we as, a group of experts, don't think is very good. Why not initiate a thread based on things that he does that aren't the same as he did whem he was young and just what in the hell is  wrong with him anymore?  ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)

f*** off dumbass. If you think I of all people here hate on Brian for changing, evolving, progressing in his music since the mythical glory days then you've clearly never read any of my posts. I'm all for Brian letting his hair down and doing anything he wants. What this thread was about is what appeared to be a decline in his playing skills. I wondered what the cause was for it - such as the Landy drugs that gave him tardive dyskensia {sp}. I don't even think Brian did his best work in the mythical glory days - give me Melt Away or Being With The One You Love over anything on Pet Sounds.

I think OSD is (in his own way, mind you) just speaking of the general (and steadily evolving in the opposite direction) sort of "disappointment" in Brian that has been something of a Beach Boys camp factor for too long now.... Like when I first became a fan, all anyone would talk about was "Why did Brian never give us another Pet Sounds" waaaa waaaa waaaa" It's insulting to Brian and us fans who embrace the whole picture.... Thank God it's not quite the thing anymore.

Hey, put your ugly freakin' head between your two speakers, play Love You real loud and while your stupid ears are still ringin', walk around thinkin' up some more  pathetic posts and while you're at it find a taller bridge a-hole.

I was sitting in a crummy thread with my hand on my chin...
A lot of people out there trolling and it really ticks me.

Love and Mercy is all that you need tonight :)

will do

This is exactly why.


Well said.

Not necessary.

Uh, but "f*uck off dumbass" was?  :o

I didn't say that.

None of it was necessary, but I can understand where ghost was coming from as regards to the original topic. That said...love & mercy guys.

It's not like I was spitting at the screen with rage just flowing with the recent profane style of posting and referencing in a joking manner the recent heat over in the Smile Sessions thread.

Anyway, oldsurferdude plays the role on this message board as old fan guy set in his ways never gonna learn a new thing from nobody specially not someone younger than his wise old self... oh, and the guy who makes it a point to always hate on Mike Love. Seriously, what kind of petty personality do you really have where you get your kicks out of insulting someone else so endlessly? At least my posts are often fun, wild, intelligent in a daring way, way outside the box. Yours are all one old game - hating on Mike Love, playing old grumpy guy. Love thy neighbor as thyself. The kingdom of god is within you. Om.

ironically although oldsurfersenior was perhaps around in the youth of the beach boys he has now become part of the 'old' faction against which brian et al were moving, the children know the way, their song is love, - children of god are in their 20s said brian wilson on television. i'm in my 20s. how old are you, dude? you sound just as locked in a box of a brain as murry did. brian would wonder what your problem is hating on mike love all the time. conversely, he'd probably find my ideas fascinating and appoint me his new songwriting partner immediately.

Even if he found your ideas fascinating, I doubt you could become his new songwriting partner. Melinda would never allow it.

You're right. My first order of business as second in command would be: divorce thy wife. "And I can breakaway... from the shackles that hold me down..."

i've done this!

Back to the topic -  I saw BW for around the 30th time on Tuesday night in Manchester and he played more keyboard than I've ever seen him do (except perhaps with the BBs in '80 at Knebworth, but he was playin somethign different to whatever the band was playing!   :lol).   Okay, he was no Bobby Crush on Tuesday night but everything was in tune, with the rhythm and audible.  More rhythm piano than lead keyboard, if you like. But there was a confidence, a regular-guy feel, that I hadn't seen before. He wasn't terribly communicative, as ever, but I enjoyed it!

That's good to hear (pardon the pun). Actually, I just saw a video of  a recent show on YouTube, where Brian is noticeably audible, and sounding pretty damn good. Color me impressed.

I should add, Billy, that he was able to play and sing at the same time too!  :lol

Touche.

:lol

It could just be he already has 2 keyboard players in his band that know the chords better than he does.

Talk about delusions of grandeur in thinking you could write with Brian. :lol Lets see what lyrics you have for Brian to use.

I saw Brian play in 2007 at a casino in Richmond, B just south of Vancouver and he had no teleprompter. The show was very loose and Brian came off really relaxed, perhaps having less pressure he appeared better. Towards the end of the show he lifted his shirt (the blue and white polo one he wore many times) to show his bare chest.

Last June at a show I mentioned this and spoke with some friends about the teleprompters and shirt incident only to receive a tongue lashing from Melinda who was seated in front of us.

Sounds like you could have a beer with Mike Love, Joe Thomas, and Andy Paley about the wrath of Melinda.

well you're well you're welcome
well you're well you're welcome
well you're well you're welcome
well you're welcome to f*** off

BTW, I KNOW I read a post years ago from someone who was there in the audience that Brian was the one playing the keyboard on "Love and Mercy" on Live at the Roxy Theater. Don't know if I believe that, though.

I see Brian's unwillingness to play the piano to be a combination of a couple hings: his current mental state in conjunction with physical limitations brought on by old age.  The guy is 69 and while he seems relatively physically healthy, it's obvious that his mental and psychological difficulties have taken the best of him today.  Paul can still rock out for 3 hours because he keeps himself in very good shape, musically.  He hasn't had episodes of slowing down or any hardships that have taken a physical toll on him...in the same scale as Brian.  The psychological aspects of the human mind creep into the physical very easily. 

As we've all seen in person or via clips, Brian does sit there with his hands to the side and hardly plays the piano...I tend to attribute this by his stage fright.  He seems quite frozen with what looks like fear---if not uneasiness.  It seems the semi-constant touring he's done since the late 90's still hasn't cured his stage fright.  That's how i see it, anyway. 

I tend to agree, he's never been a natural live performer. Although I suspect that being on tour may give his mind a sense of purpose (along with new recording projects from time to time). As is well known, an idle mind can play nasty tricks on the person, especially on an intelligent person with mental health issues, like BW.

Personally, imo he's given us so much down the years, if he retired from music altogether right now, he wouldn't owe us a thing. Though one last Beach Boys album of at least the standard of Holland or Lucky Old Sun including the best of the rest of the unreleased Paley sessions and any other good/ great unrecorded/ unreleased songs, including any unfinished Carl/ Dennis gems/ lead vocals (lightly worked on to meet release standard by the remaining members) would be a nice 'That's All Folks' for this selfish fan  ;D.

Brian played some piano at tonight's RFH gig for Mary Had a Little Lamb and afterwords Jeff said something along the lines of 'And some people say he can't play piano any more' hehe.

Good show thought Brian sang really well on the Gershwin stuff especially. :)

Nice to know Jeff has been reading my posts. Jeff, give Love You another shot. Sniff some cocaine first.

"Brian played some piano at tonight's RFH gig for 'Mary Had a Little Lamb'"

Is this what we're reduced to saying in defence of Brian's seeming uninterest, for whatever reason, in playing piano?

seems like Brian is mocking his fans. he sits behind a keyboard and the only time he plays it is to play a song i played when i was 7 years old to a nursing home audience. mary had a little lamb. how about you put on your cool guy sunglasses, get on a baldwin organ, and rock out to some Here Comes The Night for us, Brian? make all the mistakes you want, it's all right man.

I love the seemingly "How DARE you find that amusing. Don't you know the man isn't well?" attitude when Brian was TRYING to be funny. He's not retarded, for Chrissakes.

I guess I should have made it clear that he did have his hands on the piano a few times, but I singled out 'Mary...' because this was one of the (few) times he was playing solo piano.

I wasn't really trying to defend him anyway per se just mentioning it because people had been talking about it and I thought Jeff's comment was therefore a little funny. :)

I've seen him a couple times recently and he did the same thing....only playing during "Row Your Boat"

To me it was proof that Brian really doesn't have the appetite to really play the piano on stage anymore.  "Row Your Boat" consisted of 3 chords...played so very simply..enough to just accompany the acapella bit he was doing with the audience.  And he didn't play any piano for the rest of the show.  Seems to me that he's not interested in playing piano on the more complicated stuff.  He doesn't want to think about suspended 11's and major 7 chords everywhere.  It must take a great amount of concentration to do that...these are after all, very complicated songs they're playing.  With that in mind, Brian doesn't seem to be able to sing and play these songs at the same time anymore.

This is wrong.


This is also wrong.

Depending on the show, Brian now plays the piano -- in the mix, and relatively accurately -- for most of his sets. This is a relatively new development, but even at the start of touring (99, 2000), he would usually play on a song or two. In My Room, often. During the Smile shows, he also would play during Wind Chimes.

Starting with the shows in fall 2009 (and possibly earlier, but I don't recall more confirmed reports), he began to play throughout the sets. When I saw him in November 09, he even played during Heroes and Villains.

Now, is it absolutely necessary that he play? Of course not. Does he play during every song, or the same amount every show? Nope. The whole set up of the touring band is meant to support his vocal performance above all. But as he's gotten comfortable with the band, he has increasingly engaged as a player.

I don't know about some of the other examples you name but I remember the Wind Chimes portion when I saw BWPS live. From what I can remember the stage went black and there was a spotlight on Brian playing. Outside the spotlight though, I saw, in fact, that Darian was playing his keyboard. So either Brian wasn't actually playing or he was being backed up with Darian, though it sounded to me to be only one keyboard.

Brian was playing a simple part. There are like three or four overdubbed keyboards on the record, so all of the keyboardists in the band play during the section live, and it gave Brian a nice little moment.

Brian and Darian were probably playing together...I seem to remember that the concert portion of the Smile DVD, you can clearly hear two keyboards playing together during that section, ever-so-slightly out of sync.

Brian obviously plays when he wants to.  The times I've seen him--he hasn't played much.   

Oh, sure. I've seen him seven times now -- and this is what I recall, piano wise.

2000 PS symphonic
Piano during In My Room

2001 w/Paul Simon
No piano

2004 Smile
Piano for Wind Chimes

2007 PS with Al
Don't recall piano at all here

2008 Hampton Beach
Likewise, no piano that I recall

2009 fall tour
Lots of piano at both

I saw/heard him play the intro to Marcella on piano in 2004.

Yup, there's one person playing the melody of that ba...ba-ba... ba-ba ba-ba ba ba ba, and the other playing chords.

Of course he played part of Rhapsody in Blue on the Smile DVD...not very well, but he played it.

I love the bit when Brian plays Rhapsody in Blue on the Smile DVD and goes into H&V. A highlight of Brian's playing for me. Thanks for reminding me of this Amy :)

Bob Hanes and I use to talk about this alot. I have also noticed that Brian can turn everything on and off when he wants. Jon Stebbins writes in his book that Brian is not as present as he was back in 1976 even. I think this is due to the many incorrect RX Landy had him on. Also, the amounts of drugs that Brian took (coke etc) in the late 1970's and early 80's really did do a number on his short term memory. But Brian did also have a large amount of damage from the prescribed ones as well. In 1988, Landy had him on Eskalith,  Elevil , Xanax, Halcion, and Inderal. That is a potent cocktail right there.

But Brian can still play when he wants to. Look at him on the Beautiful Dreamer extras playing Good Vibrations. His left hand is going crazy on that groove during the chourus. That rocks. And that is exactly the way he played it on Saturday Night Live in 1976. There is STILL alot of Brian in Brian. He is gonna be 70 years old next June. Cut the dude some slack!

Bob