The Smiley Smile Message Board

Good Vibrations promo video here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-YzG9NZrI0

This video does weird things to me. I can’t explain the way it makes me feel. It’s this life-affirming, inspirational sort of feeling, but also a feeling of great loss, a longing for a bygone time, a time i don't even have a direct connection to, and also just knowing that for the people in the video, that period would end very soon. It's especially poignant knowing that in just a year, it would all come crumbling down. But it all seems so jovial here.

That girl at the beginning, the way she’s so uncoordinated and awkward with the ball--it’s so inviting and charming. Does anyone know who that is? And what does it have to do with anything? It has everything to with everything. It’s life. I really want to slide down that fire station pole. Brian looks so damn weird going down (up) the pole in reverse and then doing his weird, idiosyncratic gesticulations. Similar movements to that crazy gyrating he does in the Pet Sounds promo when he steps out from behind the tree and he’s wearing THAT MASK. Who in the world moves their body like that?

The boys are dressed so well here. They always looked hip, man. I don’t know why, but i love how Al stays behind in bed. The little bugger eventually makes it down the pole. Was he scared to go down at first? Mike looks great with his beard. f*** everyone, he was the trend setter in the group. He was also the one with the biggest sense of humor.

-1:52 - 2:14: Can you imagine it's 1966, you're at home, you’re watching TV in the living room, and then you happen to look out the window, and THE BEACH BOYS are running down the street wearing fire helmets with a fire engine following them? What?!

-2:36 - 2:41: This part kills me, especially being set to my favorite part of the song, and one of my favorite pieces of music, period. It makes me wanna cry. Al riding the fire truck like it's a SKATEBOARD, his band mates nonchalantly standing next to him--it touches my heart, and, for some reason, makes me want to be in a band again even though i mostly disliked being in bands. I get the same feeling during the part when they're all blowing into the Coke bottles. I wish there was a recording of that. The Coke bottle symphony. Surprised Brian never tried something out like that during all of the SMiLE sessions.

-3:01: Diane Rovell (with pigtails!) drinking soda with the fire fighters. Floral print pants and red Keds, what an outfit! <3 Brian’s muse.

-3:14 - 3:27: Brian getting sprayed with water and running away (again, his bizarre body movements) also makes me want to cry for some reason. What’s wrong with me?

-3:28: Again, imagine the scenario. You're downtown, you're running a few errands, taking your shoes into the shoe shop to get the soles repaired, you needed to pick up a loaf of bread and some milk, maybe you're meeting a friend for a hamburger and a milkshake. You come out of a store and the Beach Boys are on a fire truck riding down the street. What?! And this record called Pet Sounds was released just a few months prior and you are a subscriber to Cheetah and Tiger Beat magazine and so you keep up with all the pop music news and you've just read that Brian Wilson is working on a "teenage symphony to God" to be released later that year, and there are the Beach Boys, on a fire engine, just driving by. My God.

Looks like Marilyn Wilson to me.

This video is a amazing time capsule of LA in 1966.

The video doesn't match the song at all.  Should have the Fire tape playing in the background. Cellos, violins, and crinkling shrink wrap.......

You're on crack, friend.

I ain't yer friend, meat.

If it isn't Marilyn, it's Barbara.

I know. That was just my nice way of saying that you're on crack.

So who is it? It looks like Marilyn a bit and I always thought it was but today watching it... I dunno, the face looks different. WHO IS THIS MYSTERY GIRL WITH THE CLUMSILY CUTE BASKETBALL SKILLS. I MUST ELOPE WITH HER.

Its Barbara Rovell

Don't disturb Monicker for a while guys, he's busy, in his room, alone, with the shades down, music up loud, the lotions missing from the bathroom...

yeahhh dribble that ball, dribble it good

I have a hard time believiing that this is the 'offical GV' promo video but have no idea of the history or intentions of these films.

This seems to be, just from my observation, a better use of the video.  Wondering if a fan made this or if it was done my the BB.
The Beach Boys - Mrs. O'Leary's Cow (Fire): SMiLE Promo Video - 1967
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEl-1NFTVNs

look close!! its Ricki Lake!! :lol

it was shown as the promo for "GV" in the UK on Top Of The Pops. Remember it clearly.

Need I remind you of the Marilyn/Diane thread? Pot, kettle....  ::)

Gotcha AGD.  But what about the Mrs. O'Leary's Cow (Fire) video. It looks like they took video shot for that and edited in to the GV video.  The Fire stuff is totally out of place for GV.

Nope - the video was shot over a month before the "Fire" session. 10/23/66, just before the European tour.

I'm curious to hear opinions on this issue with the film: I don't think that is Barbara Rovell bouncing the ball in the film.

Evidence: The GV promo film was shot October 23, 1966 or thereabouts...

And the Smile "airport photo" was taken October 22, 1966 or thereabouts...

Whatever the exact dates and times, or if there is any debate about that, they were shot at almost the same point in history, we can still narrow it down and say it was the same week.

Barbara is clearly shown in a few airport shots as having long straight hair which goes beyond her shoulders. She is also very thin and petite as shown in the airport.

The girl in the GV film has a shorter haircut, and doesn't appear to be as petite. Her haircut looks more like what Marilyn was wearing at the airport, a similar length and style but shorter than Barbara's at the airport.

Here is the photo evidence I'm looking at, showing the one we know is Barbara at the airport framed by the GV film shots - sorry for the quality of the GV film shots but that's all I had to work with.

(http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n295/guitarfool2002/barbara.jpg)

May not be Barbara, but it sure as hell isn't Marilyn.

I'm just saying the hairstyle on the girl in the film looks more like what Marilyn was wearing at the airport - not suggesting the girl is Marilyn. But I think given the filming dates and the hairstyle differences, I think we might be able to rule out Barbara as the girl bouncing the ball.

Which opens up the question: So who was it? :)

Craig, bless your soul for posting that high quality picture of Barbara in the airport.

I didn't say it yesterday because...i don't know why...but i honestly don't think it's Barbara in the GV promo. That doesn't look like a Rovell at all. AT ALL. The Rovells look like aliens (that's a compliment). The girl in that video looks about as much like Marilyn as any woman with dark hair does. I don't have hard proof (just my eyes) but i'm going to say it's not Barbara. That's not a Rovell nose, or Rovell cheekbones. Definitely not Rovell eyebrows. Mouth, eyes, skin tone, nothing. It's a girl with dark hair. Use your eyes, folks. If it ends up that i have to eat my words because conclusive evidence turns up that it is Barbara, well then she was wearing a Hollywood face cast that day.

You know, Guitarfool, at first I thought it was Marilyn, then I thought of that picture at the L.A. airport of Barbara with the wide hips and big butt and I thought it was her. Send the picture to Marilyn - she'd probably know.

Damn, we're really hurting for good thread topics here.....

I've spent a lot of time around Marilyn and Diane, but zip, zero, none around Barbara...so I can't say for sure. But it was Carole Wilson who orig. told me that was Barbara in the GV footage and I assumed she knew her sister-in-law. Guitarfool's A vs. B photo evidence actually looks to increase the possibility that its Barbara IMO. Look at the arm shape, hip shape, short legs, long torso, and yes, face shape. Yes, a different haircut for sure...but chicks change their hair, dates of filming could be slightly off etc... You really think those photos eliminate Barbara as the potential basketball girl? I don't. However, as I said I am no Barbara expert, it could be someone else, but no doubt the BBall girl certainly has a Rovell-esque body type. But it could be Derek Taylor's masseuse, Van Dyke's cousin, Jon Parks' sister, or Steve Korthoff's maid. Let's confirm while we have the energy...I'll do what I can.

I'm all but convinced it's not Barbara by the hairstyle.

Any discussion where we can get more information on this era is good, and for me any time the topic of the Good Vibrations video comes up, I enjoy talking about it very much. It's one of my favorite pieces of film in all of rock-pop history! I don't understand the hurting for good thread topics comment, because this to me is a *great* topic. :) Any time we can look at photos from the 66-67 time period, we're far from hurting for good topics.

I'm trying to get more on all of this, but what is holding me back a bit is the lack of those really high-quality photos to work from. The hairstyle is still the main point for me, plus the facial features to a lesser degree, and if we assume the dates are correct, I don't think Barbara would have cut her hair that differently in the span of 24 hours. But again, it's safe to assume to a degree but it's risky to carry an assumption all the way to become a fact.

I do think we can narrow the GV filming to at least the same week(s) in Fall '66 based on all the sources, if not the exact date of each scene of the film. The airport photo date is a definite.

It might be best to either contact Diane, Marilyn, or Barbara to confirm, if any of that is possible.

And that's fine. I'm with ya. I like this era too - it's just the almost banal obsessiveness of some things, that's all.

I'm hoping to hell we can dig deep one of these days into the Sunflower era. The sessions especially. Who played on what, who was doing who, that kinda thing. And even moreso with the Carl & The Passiosns era. I hope Craig Slowinski makes it his next project! C-man, are you listening?  :)

Sorry, back to who the basketball girl is. Important stuff.

Should note that Keith Badman stated in his book that the film was directed by Brian and shot on Oct 23, 1966.  However that date is not possible. The BBs flew to Europe from NY (they were already in Paris on October 24-a day before the Paris show) Hence-the BBs never returned to the West Coast after the Michigan shows (this makes perfect sense-since otherwise why would Brian fly back alone).  So-since they played a show at Lansing on Oct 21 (badman misdated that show to Dec 66) and Ann Arbor on Oct 22-the absolute latest they could have filmed it was Oct 20 1966-but since they probably had lots to do before leaving town for over a month-I'd argue for sometime between Oct 14 and 19 1966.

See, this is what happens when you're a chick reading a board with mostly male posters...

Basketball girl has a flip hairdo.
Barbara has straight hair in the airport photo.
Flip hairdos exist thanks to really big rollers and lots of hairspray.  They only hold for a day and have to always be re-done.  It's a lot of work. 
The airport photo was done late in the evening...Barbara may not have done her hair that day, or the flip had already gotten tired and was brushed out by then.

I can't believe I'm spending time on this.  But it's better than obsessing about a milisecond of sound before the new "Heroes and Villains" track, I guess.

Now for my question...who is the guy in the denim shirt with the sunglasses and camera in the hillside scenes?

Just to save time on explaining this-Disc & Music Echo (Nov 5, 1966) is the source for them flying into Paris from NY.  And I have two articles about there time in Paris that explain that they arrived early in the morning on Oct 24 1966 and spent that day sightseeing.  Murry was with them (bizarrely) and he ended up entertaining the press when the BBs skipped a press conference).

I was wondering about that....

October 1966:

18 - Smile session: Do You Like Worms ?/'Bicycle Rider'
18 - Smile session: 'Brian's Smile party' [Columbia]
20 - Smile session: Heroes And Villains/'Barnyard'
21 - Michigan State University, Lansing MI*
22 - University of Michigan, Ann Arbor MI* [2 shows]
23 - "Good Vibrations" promo film shot in LA (allegedly)
2nd European Tour
25 - Olympia Theatre, Paris, France [w/The Coco Briavel Quartet, Michael Polnareff and Graham Bonney]
26 - Tilt Magazine TFI-1 TV show, Paris
26 - Grande Polka TV show* [broadcast 29th]

Andrew-I have been meaning to update that-but check my above post to see why that date is wrong

(http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n295/guitarfool2002/barbara2.jpg)

The part in Barbara's hair is in a different place than the girl in the GV promo. I'm no hairstylist or expert but they're two different people, unless a hairline can be changed that way...


And to put it rather bluntly, if this topic isn't of interest than don't fucking read it. Better than knocking it or being sarcastic. My two cents. I'm interested to find out who the people in the video are.

"Insider" info courtesy of an old-school Smile historian whom I asked about that: He thought that guy with the camera in the film could be Bob Gordan (or Bob Gordon, however it's spelled). He's heard on outtakes, experimental reels, the chanting tapes, and even has a piece of tape in the vaults named after him, all from the Smile era and this specific period of time. And he was a photographer who can be heard filming in the studio during a Good Vibrations session where Brian tells him to not film because his camera was making too much noise.

If it's not Bob Gordan in that film, that's another topic to take up.

It's Maureen Wilson. 

Dribbling the basketball... :afro
on the hillside with glasses... 8)
she's everywhere.

Yeah - you just comb the hair to the left instead of the right. Even I can do that.  ;D

I was going to say something earlier about how bad most men are identifying stuff like this and with detecting similarities in different women. Truly awful. For the record, my reason for thinking that it's not Barbara has nothing to do with the different hair style. It's the face, the features. As i said before, eyes, eyebrows (very distinct feature of the Rovell sisters), nose, cheekbones, mouth, jawline, etc. To me the girl dribbling the ball looks nothing at all like a Rovell, who all have a very distinct look. When you have long hair (and obviously especially when you're a woman, in the 1960s no less) you can do a million different things with it to make it look different. And if a woman cuts her hair (a CUT not a trim) and cuts a good amount, well then, guess what, yes, it's going to look very different and be a very different length 24 hours later.

EDIT: One more thing regarding hair. Even though it's obviously possible to go against one's natural hair part and part the other way, or down the middle instead of a side, not many people do that or do it often. The different part may be more of a clue that it's someone else, but i don't even think you need that. Just look at the two faces.

Wonder how they got to ride on the back of the fire truck. And complete with fireman's coats and hats. You'd be very hard pressed to get a fire station to allow non-firefighters to ride on the back of a fire truck these days. Even celebrities/Rock stars! Same with allowing people into the sleeping quarters. Wonder if they had contacts to the station personnel or just asked if they could do it for a promo film. And where was this neighborhood?

(http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n295/guitarfool2002/gvmystery.jpg)

Here's the guy who may or may not be the mysterious Bob Gordan.

This was the fire station which covered Hollywood and the Sunset Strip area. In the film the firetruck turns right out of the station onto Cole, and the station itself is still at 1355 N. Cahuenga. For the record, Wally Heider had his studio at 1604 N. Cahuenga, and all of this is located within a few miles of the Sunset Strip.

That guy has always looked so familiar to me. Like i knew him in a past life or something.

It could be Barbara Rovell-Gaddy, for all we know! I'm just going on my first impressions that it doesn't look like the same girl in both photos.

Looks a lot like Jules Siegel to me.

The actual building is now the Hollywood museum of the Los Angeles Fire Department Historical Society.

It's a pretty amateurish video-but then again the Beatles video for Strawberry Fields and Penny Lane-filmed only a few months later-are just as amateurish. I don't think anyone was losing any sleep over making these things.  I like the I Can Hear Music one because it captures them in the studio (though actually recording Time To Get Alone) which is neat.  Everyone was doing these-ever seen the Who video for Happy Jack-where they are burglars? Stones did one for We Love You and Child of the Moon.  Best Stones was is Jumpin' Jack Flash-really the best realization of the Stones on video ever.

So the fire station and Wally Heider's studio was just a couple of streets over from Capitol Records and one street over from the Beach Boys' old business offices on N. Ivar.

Yes! Do you recognize any other landmarks or streets in the film, Mikie? It's all within a few mile radius...and here's an interesting shot: Isn't that the Capitol building in the background, in this shot where Brian and Vosse are getting sprayed?

(http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n295/guitarfool2002/gvtowers.jpg)

Honestly I thought the same thing the more I looked at the film. This extreme closeup...it could be Jules after all.
(http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n295/guitarfool2002/gvhat.jpg)

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=1355%20N.%20Cahuenga&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&hl=en&tab=wl (http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=1355%20N.%20Cahuenga&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&hl=en&tab=wl)

A is the fire house - the Tower is just to the left of the 101 badge top center.

Oops, need to drag it a bit.

It is - earlobes (as in 'lack of') are identical. Compare with airport shots.

It's a safe bet then that Jules is the mystery man in the film! At least until further confirmation, but it's a safe bet. That has been a mystery for me since early 2000's...who was the guy with the camera. The person I spoke with thought it was Mr. Gordan, so I went on that for years.

Interesting that my first reaction when seeing this clip, before we were wondering who the girl might be, and before we started wondering about hair parts etc...was that this clip is reversed...that her natural movements look like those of a right hander, that's shown reversed. I play a lot of basketball, and my daughter plays high school basketball ...my wife and I are responsible for filming the games for coaching purposes...I see a lot of girls basketball footage as a result. So it struck me immediately that her movement does not look like a normal lefty...its a very nuanced thing. Anyway, i have no idea if that's important or not...but I'd bet that this clip is reversed, which isn't that strange considering other parts of the film has a reverse effect.

I did a similar Google Maps search this morning, and the shot of the Capitol Tower in the background...does that line up logically with where the film was shot at the firehouse? Or would it appear to be a different location than the general area of the firehouse for that scene and others?

Here's a Googlemap I made - BB studios in LA (plus the firehouse - yellow):

BB studios in LA (http://maps.google.co.uk/maps/ms?msid=217274387536517407686.0004a68ac0bedcadbe296&msa=0)

That is an interesting possibility but I don't think the scene we're looking at was reversed. She kicks the ball down the road, and runs behind a white car to get it. That white car is a Chevy Corvair, early 60's, and a car which had the motor in the trunk and the trunk in front where the engine would normally be found! That's why the "trunk" has vents. My Dad used to own a Corvair and worked on them when they were new in the 60's, that's how I recognized the car. :) I'm not that obsessive to research that much... ;D

If the photo were reversed, the name "Corvair" on the back would be reversed as well, but on this white Corvair the name appears normal:
(http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n295/guitarfool2002/gvcar.jpg)

Andrew, and what about that rare Promo of the BBs in the studio recording Good vibes. Saw that on the french 1st channel in B&W in early february 1967 at Cinq Colonnes a la une  serious news magazine. the previous report was about Vietnam and Anderson company fighting in the jungle! (I have still the liittle piece of the local newspaper announcing that, somewhere in my collection!).

OT-ish - classic sports car in the background at 2.25... Mike's MG ?

You're right, that second part of the clip where she kicks the ball pretty much kills any reversing possibility. But man, she's got some weird ass coordination issues that totally gave me that reverse feeling at the start....but not the case as you have proved as her part stays on the same side of her head throughout.

That Corvair looks like a '63. It didn't last long on the market. It was a fire hazard. My friend's Mom and Dad were killed in one when it was rear-ended in traffic, trapped them inside, and immediately caught fire and burned them to a crisp.

Wallach's Music City, where they rented equipment and promoted records (like the Boogie Woodie/Spirit of America single) was at Hollywood and Vine across from the Tower.  Gold Star studio was on Santa Monica near Vine in that area......

Every man on this board would minimize this thread if his wife happened to walk in the room.

unless i'm the only one mastorbating...?  >:D

Noticing the picture of the vine covered hillside, it looks like a highway embankment. The building in the picture with the Spanish style roof looks like the “Chateau Alto Nido” at 1851 Ivar Ave. My best guess is that this is the on ramp on the south side of the Hollywood Freeway at about the point it crosses over Holly Dr.

I have a very hard time believing all this elaborate 'Fire' video was shot with the intent of using it for GV.
Plus you state "23 - "Good Vibrations" promo film shot in LA (allegedly)".

Even if the "Fire" music wasn't yet recorded, doesn't mean Brian hadn't already written it, played it at home, and come up with the video concept for the 'Fire' sequence.  I can totally see Brian writing this music and saying "I've got a great video idea for this piece.  Let's find a Fire Station, get some hats, ......"

I'm a video editor and it looks to me that Capitol needed a promo video and they just put something together on the fly.  Could it be the mystery people were friends of the editor (who just needed some funny B-roll to drop in with the Fire footage).

This video does anything BUT symbolize the vibe of "GV".

And no one has yet explained the origins of the - Mrs. O'Leary's Cow (Fire): SMiLE Promo Video - 1967 (which looks like the intended purpose of the footage and seems to perfectly sync to the music.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEl-1NFTVNs

Love to hear from the guys that editing the GV promo.  Maybe all will be revealed in the boxset; as it doesn't seem like anyone has any concrete facts on this video except that is was used to promote GV.

The promo films for "I Just Wasn't Made For These Times" and "Sloop John B" have nothing to do with their lyrics, either.

That's part of why i love that footage so much.

Allow me to explain - that's a fan edited video. That's all. Nothing to do with Capitol, or The Beach Boys. As for the footage being used in the "Fire" section of the American Band video... the producers and director made a mistake: they saw fire hats and fire engines, and jumped to the wrong conclusion. There's photos of Brian directing the video wearing a fire hat, and the video had to have been shot between October 1st and 20th. I'll ask around.

Dude, your way off there.  For 'SJB', Brian takes the Captain's hat from Bruce.  He is the Captain.  The don't have a ship handy so they use a raft in the pool.  The cruise goes bad and everybody gets wet.   It's a great home video to go with the song.

As to "I Just Wasn't Made For These Times" , if you are talking about the Boys in the woods, it has an esoteric/avante garde theme to the lyrics.  Mike is playing the central character, a normal dude minding his own business camping in the wooods.  He's not 'ready'/'made' for the monstrous world of 'today'.

The GV video is a hodge podge.

I hear ya AGD but it's a heck of a lot more than Brian just wearing a Fireman's hat.  I'd really be surprised if they shot all that 'Fire' footage with the intent of using it for a GV promo video.  Brian's masterpiece and they decide to shoot in a fire station, etc.  Maybe the video was shot with the intent to use it as an album promo.

Yeah, love to hear from someone who was there.

Remember what Dennis says in the antique shop in the London 1966 footage:

"Fire hats ! Brian looooooooooooooooovvvvvvvvvvvvvveeeeeeeeeeeeesssssssss fire hats !"

Well before the Fire Music session.

I understand sir but that doesn't mean Brian hadn't already written the music and conceived the video.  As I recall, Brian usually had the songs written before he had a session.
I'd also say they were in the antique shop way before anyone was contemplating a 'GV' promo film.  So you're proposing they bought the fire hats in London in preparation for the 'GV' promo?
Me thinks that's a stretch!

But then again, they are the Beach Boys and you know their ways wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy more than I.
I just find it interesting. 

But I'm never going to buy into the argument that the "Sloop John B" video didn't tie into the song. (I know you're not making that claim)

It struck me a few months ago too - definitely an MG TC, so same model, same color, and same light canvas top. Odds are it's Mike's.

I've asked SWWK* (hopefully). We'll see.

[* - someone who would know]

Ha, always fun to learn a new acronym. I was in the hospital Tuesday visiting a very sick friend and they ordered some test 'STAT'.  Take your pick - statim is a medical term meaning "immediately" (from Latin) or "Sooner Than Already There"

Not be confrontational but that film was edited together for a Good Vibrations promo film clip, it's been all but proven and when that film clip was first aired decades after it's original broadcast (which Andrew among others saw in the 60's and can back it up), it later was part of a Beach Boys video collection for AMC network's "Am Pop" series in the early 2000's. Alan Boyd compiled those clips, and this was among them. That is where I first saw it. Mr. Boyd himself can back that up. The original intent of that film was for Good Vibrations.

Here's a recent post from Alan about it:

I recently got in touch with Caleb Deschanel, and asked him about that Good Vibrations film.  it turns out he didn't actually shoot that promo....but he did cut the negative!  He was studying at USC at the time, and a call came in asking if one of the students in the film department would be interested in helping out with the post-production.  When fellow student George Lucas turned down the gig, Caleb took it on.

As far as the editing and filming, it would seem some famous names in the film industry were involved. Caleb Deschanel, famous in the industry as a cinematographer, is of course also the father of sisters Zoe and Emily whom we know. George Lucas was also a film student when he was asked to help with the editing of the Good Vibrations clip. Sure, it's a bit haphazard by modern standards but no more scattershot than the clips of Paperback Writer, Rain, etc. which The Beatles had been doing earlier in 1966 for similar purposes and continued doing in place of touring and live appearances on television to promote singles. The raw nature of these gives them some charm, IMO.

Michael Vosse, David Anderle - both men have spoken about this clip, with one of them suggesting it was a "distraction" for Brian to work on it at this time: I believe one of them mentions it specifically as the GV promo film though I could be wrong.

I think the evidence for this being filmed as a Good Vibrations promotional clip outweighs the evidence of it *not* being for that purpose. The producers and editors of American Band were the ones who confused the issue when they cut the film to "Fire" in the early 80's. That was not the original intent nor the original editing of the footage. If I'm wrong I'm wrong but I'm pretty confident with all the evidence to support it.

Ghost, you've knocked it out of the park considering what Mikie posted just above you. You've really outdone yourself this time....


I know/hope it was intentional, but it was too funny not to acknowledge  :lol

Huh? Did I post something that was too hard for you to understand or relate to?  Is the troll telling us what he's really doing on the computer?  Maybe I should post naked chicks on this thread for you to look at while you're wanking away.

Wanking. That's an English term, right Hyperhat?

Not be confrontational but that film was edited together for a Good Vibrations promo film clip, it's been all but proven and when that film clip was first aired decades after it's original broadcast (which Andrew among others saw in the 60's and can back it up), it later was part of a Beach Boys video collection for AMC network's "Am Pop" series in the early 2000's. Alan Boyd compiled those clips, and this was among them. That is where I first saw it. Mr. Boyd himself can back that up. The original intent of that film was for Good Vibrations.

Here's a recent post from Alan about it:

I recently got in touch with Caleb Deschanel, and asked him about that Good Vibrations film.  it turns out he didn't actually shoot that promo....but he did cut the negative!  He was studying at USC at the time, and a call came in asking if one of the students in the film department would be interested in helping out with the post-production.  When fellow student George Lucas turned down the gig, Caleb took it on.

As far as the editing and filming, it would seem some famous names in the film industry were involved. Caleb Deschanel, famous in the industry as a cinematographer, is of course also the father of sisters Zoe and Emily whom we know. George Lucas was also a film student when he was asked to help with the editing of the Good Vibrations clip. Sure, it's a bit haphazard by modern standards but no more scattershot than the clips of Paperback Writer, Rain, etc. which The Beatles had been doing earlier in 1966 for similar purposes and continued doing in place of touring and live appearances on television to promote singles. The raw nature of these gives them some charm, IMO.

Michael Vosse, David Anderle - both men have spoken about this clip, with one of them suggesting it was a "distraction" for Brian to work on it at this time: I believe one of them mentions it specifically as the GV promo film though I could be wrong.

I think the evidence for this being filmed as a Good Vibrations promotional clip outweighs the evidence of it *not* being for that purpose. The producers and editors of American Band were the ones who confused the issue when they cut the film to "Fire" in the early 80's. That was not the original intent nor the original editing of the footage. If I'm wrong I'm wrong but I'm pretty confident with all the evidence to support it.
[/quote]

I don't mean to be insulting but it's obvious you know nothing about the production process - story-boarding, pre-production, location scouting, shot list, etc.
Your post totally backs up my hypothesis that this 'GV' promo was thrown together - a hodge podge of clips.

I agree! There's no doubt the video WAS used as the 'GV' promo.  

But you're telling me about film students taking a bunch of existing footage and editing it together to make a video. (exactly what people do now to make their own music videos on You Tube).  This guy who cut the negative had no more creative involvement than the dude who develops your film at the camera store.  And, from the video quality, he did a poor job!

To repeat, it's my  hypothesis that the 'Fire' stuff was not shot with the intent of using it for a 'GV' promo film.  As the whole of 'Smile' broke down and fell apart, no doubt so did the plan for proper 'promo videos'.

And I can tell you from the quality of the video, there were NO renowned  cinematographers (at the time) involved in shooting this.

And how in the world can you compare the videos for Paperback Writer, or Rain to this.  Those were obviously shot by a cinematographer, directed by Michael Lindsay-Hogg.  It is hardly scattershot when, in fact, the Beatles are filmed playing and lip-syncing the song.  Same with Rain.  Penny Lane and Strawberry Fields Forever were all professionally done videos.

There is no link/connection/tie in in the video to the song 'GV'.  Are the BB's filmed playing it - no!  Are there any visual references in the video to the song - no. And so forth.
Are there visual references in the song to Mrs. O'Leary's Cow/Fire?  A zillion!!!!!

But scattershot is a great word to describe the 'GV' promo video.

I wasn't there, so I don't know how it went down.  Brian knows, whoever shot it knows........

You've misunderstood me! His post about wanking just seemed a little, er, bad taste after your post about your poor friends parents, is all.....

Ah, OK.  Yeah, maybe I didn't need to go off-topic there. It's just that when I saw the picture of the Corvair, it's exactly like the one they had. Brought back a memory there....

Like I said, what little problem there is is with our LSD munching chum. Don't worry about it, mate  :)

 He's been really irritating me today, actually. Damn trolls.

I cant watch this video on my phone. Soooo pissed. What a time to have my computer and backup computer break. I'm missing out on so much I bet I wont even be able to preorder a deluxe box set before they're gone.

Same here, you should have seen the creepy posts he made where he changed the surfer girl lyrics to include nazi references. So creepy in fact that the whole thread was deleted and my post yelling at him is lost forever.

That's all I needed to read. Maybe you should at least have your points of debate line up with the facts before going off on that kind of nonsense. Good luck tracking down the origins of the Fire video, or any of the Smile promo film shoots. Make sure you report back with the results. :)

PS:




So it's obvious you know nothing about...oh, never mind. :-D

OK... well... SWWK #1 kinda panned out. Thinks the girl might be a friend of Brian's wife. So... on to SWWK #2.

We really, really need a TARDIS.

I don't mean to be insulting, but it obvious you know nothing about the mind of Brian Douglas Wilson in fall 1966.  ;D

Location scouting ? "Man, there's a fire house just down the street from Capitol !"

Storyboarding ? "OK, and then you guys get out of bed and slide down the pole... I think of what happens later, ah... later"

Pre-production ? "Gonna need a camera... someone to use it... some fire hats..."

Brian would have come up with the idea maybe the day before it was shot, probably. As for what it is, there's documentary proof of it being a "GV" promo. You theory is based on nothing more than "this is what I think". I clearly recall seeing it on "TOTP", November 1966 - ask anyone who knows me in the UK BB world, they'll say I was telling them about seeing Brian slide UP a fire pole back in the late 70s. That means it had to be shot before 10/21/66 (check the concert dates).

Ok, I sent this video to my friend that lives in LA, he used to live in the Hollywood area and he recognized these locations right away. This street is the onramp from North Cahuenga Boulevard to the 101 (Hollywood Freeway) and the hill goes up to the freeway. It doesn’t have the plants on it now, just dirt.
The tunnel they go through on the fire truck is Holly Drive going north under the Hollywood Freeway, this is right off North Cahuenga. He said it’s a lot more built up around there now but the tunnel looks the same and you can still see the same looking hills when you drive over the freeway. He will send me pictures next time he goes over there.

The girl could be one of Marilyn's friends? Cool info - hope to hear more details! I just noticed you can see her very briefly on the sidewalk in the scene where the firemen are standing with Diane and Vosse drinking sodas.

The location of that ramp in the screenshot: This is exactly the kind of info I was hoping to see for the locations of these film shots! Awesome, thank you for posting that. I've been going off and on to Google Maps scanning around to see what these areas look like now.

Thanks to everyone putting out the information in this thread - this is a lot of fun solving some of these puzzles and questions from the film. Awesome stuff!

So, at least a small fraction of one Good Vibrations session was filmed? Now THAT is a discussion I'd like to read about and, or, take part in.

I can't wait to see the photos! That would be great! Tonight I couldn't resist a Google map search for these shots, I was so happy to read the actual locations. First, the onramp where Brian and Vosse are shown, next the area where Brian and who we think is Jules are shown walking through the greens, on the same ramp to the 101:

(http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n295/guitarfool2002/gvroad1.jpg)
(http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n295/guitarfool2002/gvhill.jpg)

Many thanks and cheers to "Been Too Long" for that info I've been wondering about for 10+ years. Big thanks and a Smile! :)

One other note on locations. My friend said the street you see in the background in the scene where they are running from the truck is called Dix and it runs to Ivar, he used to work at a place on Ivar, so the street they are running down is either Ivar or Holly and they are being filmed from the Freeway overpass. Also, the house with all the steps that they run down in fast motion is next to the Freeway on either Ivar or Holly, he remembers seeing it around there before.

Again - fantastic information! I was wondering how they got an overhead camera shot, thinking the camera could have been up on a roof or something. An overpass makes perfect sense! Trying to find these places randomly looking on Google then actually getting the right info from an LA resident - amazing.

Many thanks! :)

Well, if that's the same location as where the film was taken, it looks like that sprinkler hasn't worked for years! The L.A. maintenance crews kinda let the area go. Looked nice in '66 though.

What a crazy place to make a film - a freeway onramp. Seems like a last minute thought. Maybe they were driving around and just decided to pull the car over and shoot some of it there.

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to Geek Central.  ;D

I don't know what you are talking about AGD

....so anyway, I had a look on google earth and I would put that on ramp with Jules as just north of the corner of Dix and Holly Dr. ;D

If you look at the last house on the left before the on ramp and underpass (with the word 'bump' written upside down on the street) the stairs match. Same house the band run out of IMO.


edit. Look at street view. No doubt about it!

OK, "GV" on Top Of The Pops:

November 10th - #15
November 17th - #5
November 24th - #1
December 27th (Christmas Special 2)

Two things: oddly, they weren't included in the December 1st show, when they were still #1... and with the exception of the Xmas special, when the GoJos danced to the disc, each appearance is listed as a promo video.

God, I love this board sometimes!

Do we know if Dennis shot any of the footage or was it all done by Jules?

I remember Ed mentioning Dennis getting into film-making-I somehow imagine him doing something like Easy Rider!

Jules didn't shoot any footage - that's a still camera.

I hate using the word moronic but you should actually take the time to read "what" I'm saying and use a little common sense. (why you get such bad raps AGD)  It's OBVIOUS the 'Fire' video was scouted, story-boarded, etc. But for what?

The GV promo video?  Makes no sense.  And you don't know either.

For the "Fire" music?  Yes, it would seem to me.  But I don't know either.

If you see him doing this for a 'GV' promo, you R insulting the brain of Brain.  You're claiming 'this promo' was Brian's vision for a GV promo film?  Eeeks!  Stop smoking that bad mojo!  :hat

Yes, this 'Fire' footage was used by Capitol Records, cut in with other nonsensical stuff, for a  GV Promo video.  This is obvious! A historical fact.

If it's true they turned to film students to take a bunch of footage at hand (the Fire video), edit it into the GV Promo video, then it sounds like Brian had little to do with it as a GV promo?

to summarize:

1) You've presented zilch evidence on what Brian intended for this footage.
2) You know about as much of what Brian intended for this footage as I do.
3) You'd don't know when he wrote the "Fire" music.
4) You don't know what was in his head when he filmed this stuff.
5) You don't know if Brian had anything to do with the 'GV' promo video.  

In this case, you don't know much except when the 'GV' video played and when the Fire music was recorded.

Ya don't know if BW and VDP intended to do video promos for every Smile song.

This official 'GV' Promo video was patched together because Capitol  Records needed a promo video fast and this was the footage they had available. That's my hypothesis and I'm sticking to it.

Ah, OK-sorry-my misunderstanding. Do we know who did the filming on the off chance? I'm sure it'll be covered on here somewhere

I do believe though that the film sounds like an idea Brian had the day before or on the morning of it being shot. I just can't imagine him sitting there doodling away on a piece of paper a picture of him going up a fireman's pole

Just my opinion, mind and I'm happy to be proved wrong

Great thread, by the way

I agree!  But I don't see this footage as Brian's brainstorm for a GV promo video.  That's all I'm saying. 
That and  maybe Brian had a vision for Smile that included shooting film for the "Fire"music.

That's the point, nobody has 'facts' on the "Fire" video.

If it irritates you that someone on this board is speculating a theory on something "Smile" related, you are obviously VERY new to this board or you are a pissed off person 24/7.

I suggest you remove head from rear and re-read exactly what I was writing.  

Though I understand the use of logic might be too complex an exercise for you.  In that case, continue to enjoy the pretty color photos of 1960's LA.

Why obvious ?  Where's the storyline, the exposition, the development, the climax and the resolution ?  It's a series of unconnected shots. What place in the "narrative" does the girl with the ball have ? There's more linear development and coherent storyline in The Life of an American Fireman. Plus, storyboards aren't essential: ask DW Griffith.

Consider this - if Capitol were hurting for a "GV" promo, wouldn't they have used some stock footage (as was done for "H&V" ?) as opposed to assembling some seriously odd stuff ?  Further, if Brian had it shot expressly for the Fire Music, why compromise that by letting it be used for a totally different song ?

Finally:


1) Nor have you...
2) Exactly...
3) Nor do you...
4) Nor do you...
5) Nor do you...

Yet you can state with certainty that it was intended for the Fire Music.  ;D

He doesn't seem that certain really:

OK, this may sound really simple and I don't mean to patronise anyone but:

Do we know a memo exists from Capitol asking for a GV promo or is the fact taken from those asked to do the editing?

Looking at the sessions held at the time (Brian's Smile Party was on the 18th!) I'm inclined to think, until proven otherwise, this was a spur on a moment, "Let's get stoned and head to the Fire Station" moment which Brian got someone to film

Also-isn't Brian wearing the same blue t-shirt on the photo shoot where he's laughing covered in vegetables? Those could have been taken on the same day

Thanks Sam!

Wow AGD.  Someone actually took the time to READ my post.

I agree.  Questions, questions.  AGD alludes to Dennis pointing out Fire hats to Brian so one would tend to think their was a method to the madness. (but did he point them out before or after the Fire station/truck/hat footage was filmed?  I don't know, I don't know, I don't know...................................................................

Just to clarify, there was no such thing as a contemporaneous promo film for "I Just Wasn't Made For These Times."

The original promo from 1966 featured excerpts of "Wouldn't It Be Nice", "Here Today" and "God Only Knows".

In 1985's "An American Band" video, a re-edited version was set to "That's Not Me".

"Endless Harmony" features a new edit set to "I Just Wasn't Made For These Times." Kudos to Alan Boyd for directing that!

AGD said Dennis pointed them out in an antiques shop in London. I'm guessing this was between 6-8 Nov, so after the fire station footage.

Another quesion is, according to AGD's site, GV was released on Oct 10, so why did Capitol leave it until after it had been released to do a promo film.
Was the promo film for the UK market alone?

You might not, but I do. Station 27 footage was shot in October (before 21st): London antique shop footage was shot between November 6th and 15th... and I said nothing about Dennis pointing out fire hats to Brian. That would be a splendid trick as they were some 5000 miles apart at the time. What I said was that Dennis spotted a fire hat and said how much Brian loves them.

Um... and you've ignored my questions about why use that footage for a promo if it was intended for something else, as you claim.

Sounds like an album I know...

Interesting about the location considering my wife grew up on Holly Drive just down the street from where this was filmed...and I orig. met her in '87 at a party at a condo that's about 50 ft. from that Holly Drive tunnel. We can walk from her mom's Holly Dr. house to the Hollywood Bowl, where we all went to see Brian perform in '09. Maybe they should erect another Landmark here...the Good Vibrations California State Landmark...Yeah! I could pay my mother in law to maintain it.

There are facts on the "Fire" video and the fact is there never was a "Fire" video. Period. You can't accept that so you turn it into personal insults. Pathetic.

I re-read and quoted exactly what you had written and it still sounds like you don't have a clue about this topic. Or you just like to start debates to stir up trouble and use that to go into personal insult territory.

If you have a problem with me from "the old days", or whatever else, just let me know who you are or were back then. Otherwise go f*** yourself, asshole.

Oh, just for the record:

David Anderle talking to Paul Williams about Smile, late 60's:

"There was gonna be the Post article by Jules Siegel, he was on television, an incredible amount of excuses not to cut (record), things to get into. The little film for "Good Vibrations", which took time away, the guys being out of town, whatever, he was clinging onto excuses."

That "little film" for Good Vibrations seems to be what we're discussing.

Come on kids, play nice, it's just a little video someone shot and forgot allllll about back in 1966.

What video ?

The one of your birth where you emerge from the womb holding a copy of Cool Head, Warm Amniotic Water

Thanks to "Been Too Long" and "The Other Anonymous":

1966
(http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n295/guitarfool2002/gvhouse2.jpg)

2011
(http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n295/guitarfool2002/gvhouse.jpg)

That freeway on-ramp seems to have been a key location for filming. I never would have guessed that. It's too bad so many trees and shrubs are blocking the same angles they had in '66, I enjoy doing then-and-now comparisons of streets and towns like this. Geek central indeed! ;D

That's pretty cool actually, I enjoy seeing that too.

My gosh, that is an amazingly, um, #$##$!@$ statement!  Maybe their was no 'Fire' video (just speculating wildly here, stab in the dark), because Brian dropped 'Smile', never released the music and, if legend is true, had some kind of mental freak-out after recording the music.

[/quote]

I've never had the misfortune to come across you before but thank you for so clearly and quickly displaying your mental state.

AGD, just to help you; there are numbered buttons in the upper left hand corner of the screen where you can go back and 'read' prior posts.  As Sam pointed out, you maybe are not reading them clearly.

To quote my earlier post (I've said this like three times), "This official 'GV' Promo video was patched together because Capitol  Records needed a promo video fast and this was the footage they had available. That's my hypothesis and I'm sticking to it."

lol you said some jerky things to him before he responded with that to you!

You're right - I should have not made that "it's obvious you don't know editing, ......" comment

Yeah, I know. This may amaze you, but I can read, and used a message board. But these were the questions you sidestepped:

Consider this - if Capitol were hurting for a "GV" promo, wouldn't they have used some stock footage (as was done for "H&V" ?) as opposed to assembling some seriously odd stuff ? (In other words, if it was odd for Brian to use that as a "GV" promo, it's odd cubed that Capitol would do so: your logic has to apply to both cases - can't pick and choose)  Further, if Brian had it shot expressly for the Fire Music, why compromise that by letting it be used for a totally different song ?

PS: a little civility would help your cause considerably. Plus, sarcasm doesn't work with me. You'll need to to much better than that.

such as telling him to take his head out of his ass, implying he can't think logically, telling him to just enjoy the pretty pictures instead ...

Dude, that was wayyyyyyy into it.  You need to go back to the start.

 But I hadn't finished my response to you when I hit post.  See above.

Didn't Brian have his acid trip where he thought he was on fire way before he wrote "Fire"? Maybe he had his trip, had a fire hat fixation for while and "fire" is the end product of months of fire hat mania due to his trip. So the video just documented them at a fire station as part of the fire interest.

Holy smokes AGD, that's the pot calling the kettle black.   I'm proud to say I've never been banned, suspended for my board behavior or left a board in a huff of anger.
I've never used the F word on here at someone. Shinning up that gold star I see!  Many consider you a bully on these boards dude!  You love to dish it out.......

As to the matter in question, again, as Sam pointed out, I DON"T KNOW.  I gave my opinion and theory.  And you just want to argue about it because you are the BB God of knowledge - AGD!

You questions are interesting but:

1) consider Brian's mental state at the time
2) Brian was making Smile.  He probably had little interest, at that moment, of what Capitol was doing for a GV promo.
3) Overall, I have no idea.  But I can tell you that musicians (being a crappy one myself) have little interest in promotion and advertising when in the middle of major music making.

Your theory is as valid as mine.  But again, you have no facts or concrete sources on how this video happened.  I just am putting out my theory.

Again, "I don't know and neither do you". But I'm happy to have a civil debate. Hugs!!!!!!

Yeah, that sounds quite plausible to me.  Much more so than Brain did this for the GV promo video.

The only source for that trip is the discredited 'autobiography'. No-one I know places and credence at all in said report.

Dang it, referenced that fine piece of literature without realising it. ;D

It's not unlikely for Brian to get into a Fire kind of trip. Just cause it's in the bio the normative view likes to discredit doesn't mean it never happened. Dum ba dim ba dum ba.

Try harder.  ;)


Nope, but sometimes you have to, when someone's being either incredibly/gratuitously dumb, antagonistic or dismissing established fact. Anyone who feels intimidated on a message board... well, I worry for them in real life.

Got a reply from SWWK #2 - name of Jules. here y'go:

"1 - is that you with the camera ?

Yes.

2 - do you recall when it was shot ? I'm thinking October 1966.

It sounds about right.
 
3 - do you recall if Brian said it was specifically for "GV"... or "Fire"... or what ?

It was a video for a TV station, I think in Philadelphia. I don't recall anything else about it.

4 - who is the girl with the ball ?

I don't recognize her."

So the indication from SWWK #2 is this was not shot for GV.  Obviously, not definitive!

That's your problem AGD.  U justify your extreme bad bully behavior cause U think people are dumb and you're some brilliant historian.  That's your justification? How pathetic!

Dumb is arguing fact when you have none.  As in this case!  "dismissing established fact"?
Your talking through your hat here. The fact is you have NO idea how this GV promo came about.  

Which is the same for me.  I have no idea.  I merely put forth a theory.

There are some rally nice, sweet people on this board who sometimes say something completely wrong.  What do you do?  Put on your bully gloves and intimidate the hell out of um.
And of course, your group of minions who idolize you jump in.  Always the same.  Seen it on Brian's Board, here, BBB, The Shut Down Board.  Your angry bullying knows no bounds!

 Sorry life has turned out so bitterly for you.   :'(

****************
Maybe you're just bitter and angry right now because you are completely out/uninvolved with the 'Smile Box' project. Or that Jon is coming out with this great new book and not you.
Sorry dude!

There's a party in here. When did it start?

Excellent work ol' pal.

I can`t believe people get are getting worked up over BBs footage. We`re not talking about wars or taxes or national debt here. It`s the fuckin` Beach Boys! I love the nitty gritty obscure geeky stuff, but something as insignificant to the larger world as "why were the Boys filmed wearing fire hats?" is no reason for people to tell each other to go get fudged.

 Dude, you are being lame. Ad hominem attacks are really lame. Why start with the personalizing of this disagreement? We get it: two different ideas, neither of which even friggin' matters at all anywhere in real life, from two folks who would likely never grab a drink together. Pull it together, man! ;)

Where does it say, or even indicate, that ? All he says is he doesn't remember anything other than it was shot for a TV station. Going by your logic, it wasn't shot for "Fire" either because he doesn't say so. Like I said, you can't cherry-pick the response that suits your notion best: you're very fond of using the word "obviously" when it's anything but. I gave him the options of "GV" or "Fire" and he opted for neither.

I love your assumption that I'm "bitter and angry right now" because of my assumed non-involvement in TSS, and that I'm burned up because my friend Jon has a new book out. In the former case, as it happens you're mildly wrong - your use of the word "completely" is both unfortunate and a handy escape hatch ;D - and in the latter I'm eager to see what Jon's done. Fine author and researcher, good friend.

Strikes me you've got the same problem as such Bloo luminaries as "Alex McDonald", "Summer Days" & "Surfin' USA": you just don't like me and use the boards to take shots, which is fine by me, quite amusing actually (people who use text speak on boards like this always amuse me, why I don't know). As others have stated, it's just a few feel of film stock from 46 years ago: No-one's going to die, no Nobel Prizes will ensue. Why you're getting so het up about it is a mystery. Can't speak for you, but to me this is but a passing distraction and I've much more pressing matters to truly worry about.

And now, if you don't mind, I have 5 CDs to ponder over.  ;D

I sent an email, is all.  ;D

Quite right!  Pretty clear it wasn't shot for GV though.

Too bad you don't have any better sources.

You have better ?   ;D  

The man was there and he wrote the definitive early Smile article, in which, btw, he makes no mention whatsoever of this shoot: now, having described the "Fire" session minutely (and entirely accurately), that he made no mention that he was part of a shoot for a promo for same obviously indicates to me that said shoot wasn't for "Fire". According to your rules of logic and deduction.

Bottom line - anyone who contests that a first-hand source isn't good enough... well... I guess we have to dismiss his entire article as unreliable now, don't we ? Bummer.

Gosh, I've said multiple times I have no info, I don't know.

A good source might be your buddy Bruce, Brian, VDP - someone who might know what Brian had in mind.
If you look at this footage, wasn't for Barnyard.

Who knows; I don't.

Thanks for trying!

OK - I'll ask Brian.

I read those boards but don't post on them.  A member of the BBB but haven't posted in years.  Not a member of Brian's or Shut Down.  Never ever posted you anywhere but here.
If you really want to know, you caught my attention couple years ago when you 'bullied' me for screwing up David Marks name.
Couldn't help yourself posting a snide, smart-ass jab in a thread you had nothing to do with.

Sorry, I was only have fun with you here on Smiley.  That "bitter and angry right now" was just messing with you AGD. Ha, Ha!

Do I not like you?  Don't know you. DO you have an anger issue? Um........
Otherwise, what I hear 'around' is you're a swell guy! 

You're quick to tell people things like, don't like it, don't buy it.  Don't like my posts, move on then.

Till next time Sir!  Enjoy Smile!

In all seriousness and sincerity Andrew, we wouldn't be getting 'Smile' without you and others like you. 
Thanks for all your work!

Now now, sarcasm is the lowest form of humour.....  ;D

No sarcasm.  Seriously - where would we be?
Their is a core of people who have kept the BB torch lit.  AGD is one of them. Jon Stebbins, Ed Roach, ..........

++++++++
Besides, AGD said I wasn't very good at sarcasm.  I have to agree.

I`m taking bets for the Andrew G. Doe vs. SurfRiderHawaii grudge match. LET`S GET READY TO RUUUMBLE!! :lol

In all seriousness, they should have a world trivia contest of Beach Boy fans. I'm placing my bets on AGD to win because he knows so much to point where the band should pay him as official historian.

It's great to find out the identity of the mystery man in the film with the camera and shades: Jules! Great stuff - that will put the Bob Gordan (or Gordon...) speculation to rest for good. Not that he still isn't one of the more mysterious figures in the saga.

And much thanks again for the Jules info, as well as updated info on the various locations of the film shoot. That means a lot to me as it's something I've been curious about for about 10 years, since I first saw it. So a big thanks, and I hope to see and get more info out there as it becomes available.

Jules' statement about a TV station in Philly: That is intriguing. I have to look into that, it may be something connected to Philly DJ Jerry Blavat, known as "The Geator" who had a TV show. The Monkees were on a Philly TV music show promoting Head in '68, maybe that's the same one?

I thought the film was targeted to UK television as the BB's were going there on the big tour, and that's why in the US at least it is sometimes labeled "unreleased"...which is true but only for the US, so it seems.

It is also surprising to see how some locations in the film have stayed pretty much the same from 1966 to the present, despite all of the development and various renewal/revival efforts that usually change the look of an area. It's kind of eerie and fascinating looking at the same buildings as they were 45 years ago captured on film, for me at least.

And anyone who watches the TV show "Storage Wars", the fire station museum was featured in a recent episode where two buyers took some antique firefighting equipment and memorabilia to an expert at the museum to have them authenticated. Pretty neat to see the old building in light of all the film discussion here.

Haven't been paying attention but this thread is awesome because I just learned that the girl in the GV film is Barbara Rovell(thanks Jon Stebbins).

What's sooo cool about this is the color RED, and I have to also add that Brian's bio fits into this as well(sorry anti bio at all cost gang).

Holy crap! See how the red represents Brian's fire trip????!!! Come on folks.

How cool!!!! How freakin' cool!!!!

Cuz Barbara was part of Bri's fire trip experience (if one is to believe--or even entertain the possibility of-- the Barbara/2nd trip part of the bio).

Check, and mate.  ;D

We haven't gotten proof that it was Barbara yet, but hopefully soon that will be cleared up.

Bill, I remember we had some good discussions on this film when the only source was VHS tape. Youtube is pretty cool.  ;D

You and me both!

Now how about that grassy knoll in Dallas? ;D

Ah yes, the grassy knoll! :) I watch every program and documentary I come across about those things, and every time they show modern shots of those places, it's so odd how certain places and parts of the landscape seem frozen in time.

For all of the progress and rebuilding around Los Angeles and Hollywood, that odd-shaped apartment building is still standing. It's an odd thing that whatever they boarded up in front as of '66 still seems boarded up, if that's what it is, and I'm guessing there are still tenants living there. Enjoying having the 101 freeway a stone's throw away, I'm sure.

I wonder what the original tenants in '66 thought of a group of rock musicians wearing firehats and coats running outside their pad looking like the Marx Brothers?
"Is that those damn Monkees kids filming here again?"
"No, the one with the beard said they're the Beach Boys."
"Oh."

Looking at google earth, there does seem to be a studio behind the apartments which may have been the case in 66. May have been a someone involved with the studio who lived/ owned there.

edit. Not a recording studio after a quick search but a lot in the area back in the day.

Don't get me started on the grassy knoll and the Kennedy assassination!  How much time you got?

http://www.earthcam.com/usa/texas/dallas/dealeyplaza/index.php?goto=live

I don't want to start a new thread for this, and since we're discussing one aspect of Good Vibrations, i'll ask here: does anyone know who played the jew's harp on the recording?

The fire hats are red too ! And so is the fire engine !!!  Can you believe that ?

And Brian's shirt is... blue ? Ah, I know, that represents the water putting the fire out. Yeah.

The girl's shorts are white ! So is snow, and snow's just frozen water, right !

Sorry Bill, all it means is that morning she picked a red top out of the closet that day..

More important to me is the question - is that ball made by Wilson, or not ?

Tommy Morgan played Jew's Harp on Good Vibrations.

:wall  :ahh :ahh

AGD, Jay's trying to get your attention.  Not sure, but uh, I think he likes you.

Someone needs to.  :-D

Have to admit, the avatar is rather eye catching.  ;)

Jay, if you're not careful, you're gonna become one of those idolizing minions of AGD's like Surfrider was describing earlier.  ;D

But what about the vinyl?

We all just love him for his body, anyways. The occasional bit of Beach Boy trivia is a bonus!

I don't have a turntable.  ;D

Crap, Jay, got me!  I'm just sitting hear waiting for that coconut wireless info back from Brian.

I'm sure AGD would, in fact,  ask him if he had the chance but I imagine they are both too busy for such trivial things.

Obviously Brian is keeping crazy busy right now.

I'll ask him next weekend, in London.  :)

I'm sure he'll just be a flood of information on this topic.  For sure!

Course, as a journalist, we know you can couch his replay by the way you ask the question.  What,exactly are you going to ask him?

1) Did you shoot the 'Fire' video intentionally for the GV promo?

2) Did you shoot the 'Fire' video for future 'Smile' promo

3) What did you shoot the 'Fire" video for in 1966.

4) there's this a,,,hole on the Smiley board who thinks ............

Please bring your cell and post the audio on You Tube.  I'm sure we will all be anxiously awaiting the audio from Brian.

Finally, we get the final mystery of "Smile"  solved!

#4 looks like a good option.  ;D

And while you're at it, please ask him some questions we'd REALLY like answered on this board:

1) What project has he been recording this past two months?
2) Is he really considering writing with Mike and making a new BB album?
3) Will he appear with, and possibly tour with, the BB's for the 50th.
4) When is he going to get 'WIBNTLA" released and what other vault material is in the pipeline after 'Smile'

We'd all thank you for that interview!!!!!

Ha, ha, I knew it :lol

1 - no need
2 - no need
3 - no need
4 - he's not interested.

1 - no need - WHY?
2 - no need - WHY?
3 - no need - WHY?
4 - he's not interested. WHY? (He, for years, said he had no interest in releasing the 'Smile' sessions)

Here's your chance for some big scoops AGD.  Get back in the game.  Do some investigative journalism!
You claim to have access.  Access and ask.

There's been countless threads on this stuff and you say "no need"?  I think I've read your posting about wanting a release of 'WIBNTLA" two dozen times.  And you won't ask the question. WOW!!!!

Grow a pair!

There's more to life than just reporting things on message boards like "Beach Boys inducted into the California Hall of Fame."
For a change, give us something current and vibrant.  Stuff like the exact date "Surfer Girl " was recorded gets a little old.

Or are you not really meeting Brian and going to make up your own answer?  With your obsession with always being right, I wouldn't put it past you.

So I expect that You Tube audio Sir.  Evidence!  You've made this a big deal so I expect the real deal!

I can see why Sir. Announcing on Brian's Board "Beach Boys inducted into the California Hall of Fame" is quite the important and pressing matter! Indeed!!!!

As a native Californian from Redondo Beach, we've been up in arms over this injustice for years.  Tonight, I can sleep again!

Oh, just had a flashback of hanging out with the Loves and playing three on three against Stan.  Redondo Beach LA - those were the days!

1 - no need to ask, all will become clear later this year/early next, if it isn't already from reading the recent reports and applying a little deductive ability.
2 - ditto
3 - ditto
4 - Brian has zilch interest in the past: wasn't his idea to release TSS (any more than it was to do Pet Sounds and BWPS live), someone put the notion in front of him and, instead of saying "no" as in the past, he said "yeah, why not ?" for a change - quite possibly to stop people bugging him about it. As for "(WIBNT)LA", I doubt he remembers its existence: all he did was do a bv session for it 40 years ago, Dennis was the man in change. Brian isn't the go-to guy for that, and anyway, it's not that simple, as you'd realise if you had even the least grasp of dynamic within BRI. Which you evidently don't, so don't worry yourself on this matter. It was almost released a few years ago, and a few years before that.

And if you really think I'm going to try and tape Brian outside of a mutually agreed, officially sanctioned interview situation, either you've got even less nous than I previously assumed (and trust me, it wasn't much) or you're trolling.

Finally:


When someone accuses me of fabricating answers or research, the following things tend to happen: I regard them as idiots, and stop wasting my time on them and interact with folk who are actually interested in the band as opposed to picking public fights while repeatedly evading questions.

Good day to you sir, splutter and puff as you wish: as Brian would say, it's been a trip.

Sigh.....
1 - cop out (yes, we've been hearing about the rock album for years.  yawn!  Do some real reporting)
2 -  cop out (obviously we'll know for sure, in like three years.  Again, do some reporting)
3 -   cop out (ditto)
4 -   cop out (I do believe Capitol, in a press release, mention forthcoming archival releases.  Since Brian has no interest in the past, (I guess all the work he's been doing on the Smile box  - like approving every mix and acting as Producer is a hoax,) he'll have no involvement in these other projects either.

Wait, I get it, you are now Brian's official spokesman.  "No comment"

I told you, if you don't like my posts, just walk away.  You don't!

Speaking of ethics, honestly and integrity - There's a reason you ain't an 'Honored Guest' here anymore dude.  Curious minds would love to know?????

I'm just an average person and you are considerably full of yourself.  You are soooooooo obsessed with this stuff, it's sad!
Who knows what you say has any factual basis.  "Source for this info is impeccable." reply - "Please present us with the evidence as well!"  You - "Sure... but not right now." (and you NEVER do)

You've done this so many times on this board it's like a broken record.  Credibility?  And you don't own a turntable either. OMG!

eh heh heh you only need to watch a couple hours of bw interviews to know that everything he said was 100% true

brian doesnt give a f*** about stuff like that and everything else will be answered within the next few months
theres no need to think about it any further

If someone tells him something in confidence, I don't blame him for not saying who the source is. And for the record, I can personally confirm that what he said about Brian not caring about the past is true.

asking brian about an archival release seems pointless and a waste of time.  now asking him he remembers dennis' song WIBNTLA might be something else. and a throwaway most likely.

So what is Brian interested in? (except steak, cake etc...obvs  ::))

I do realise that the release of archive material goes far beyond solely Brian's wishes.  However, maybe I sound naive, but isn't he at all into the idea of his late brother(s) having their legacy properly honoured and represented?

I dunno, maybe he would surprise us all with some fond recollection of WIBNTLA. :-\

You can always tell the difference between someone who has interviewed Brian VS. someone who has not. Usually the fastest way to turn him off is to ask questions like something about WIBNTLA or another obscure 40 year old track. He'll say I don't know, never heard it... next question...and from that point you have a little less of him with you. If you could PLAY him a snippet of the track it might be different. But those kind of conditions are usually not possible because of Brian's handlers etc... And even f you did play it for him, if he became even slightly uncomfortable with what you are doing he detaches. Some of the questions suggested above are the same ones that BW gets all the time and he glazes over. If you ask him about steak you probably will get a funny response. Interviewing Brian is hard...it usually ends before you ever make a meaningful connection with him. Once in a blue moon you get lucky and he's in a present mood, and in those cases all bets are off...you never know what he might say. But I think AGD had a good handle on this, he can pretty much predict Brian's responses to the suggested questions...unless its one of those rare times when BW's more engaged than usual. I think I've found him in that state maybe twice in more than a dozen interactions. But...he can surprise you...because he's Brian.

I think WIBNTLA is in the archives and therefor would be an archival release.
Many would agree what's in the vaults would be 1,000% better than any new album recordings.

Well, I guess we are all about the read dozens of pointless interviews as "the Smile Sessions" (also an archival release) hits the streets.  From Mojo to Rolling Stone, "Brian, how do you feel now that the Smile sessions have been released."
Brian just sits in silence with a distant look in his eyes.  Brian's PA, "Mr. Wilson doesn't discuss music over 40 years old".

so Jon, on one hand you say Brian will turn off about a question on a 40 year old track and that AGD has a good handle on interviewing Brian and staying clear of that.
But as AGD so clearly states above, he claims to be going to London and asking Brian about some 44 year old video footage.

So if I get you correctly, AGD will be bringing his iPhone and play Brian the 'Fire' footage?

If you claim to be a Beach Boys historian, you can't constantly say, "I can't reveal my source".  It's one thing if there's some secret project a foot.  But to claim a confidential source on things like the lead vocal parts on an GV take, is nonsense!

Good journalists use citations when presenting facts.  Plenty of people on here trash Brian's book, and many others, for erroneous facts.  If you're making a statement of fact, you need to back it up.  Otherwise, it's as good as useless.

As to Brian not caring about the past, please read the slew of upcoming Brian "Smile Sessions" interviews for a different take on that premise. 

Let it go, dude.

I'm saying interviewing Brian is usually frustrating because he's usually not interested in being forthcoming...and someone like Andrew who is real good at framing questions well, and coming up with new angles etc...that even with that going for you it can often produce the same "I don't know, I never heard it"...blank stare...Brian. But, as you can see in Endless Harmony with "Kiss Me Baby"... if Brian can hear a track he often comes to life. There's the story about Boyd playing 'A Time To Live In Dreams" for Brian, and yeah he remembered it when he heard it, and reacted positively. So maybe an Iphone with a Fire video would be a good thing...on the other hand it might freak Brian out. And regarding WIBNTLA... Dennis in general isn't usually a good direction to go in if you want positive energy from Brian. My most recent Brian interview material from just a month or so ago (conducted by my collaborator Howie Edelson) contains one of the most negative things I've ever heard anybody say about Dennis. Brian makes a really ugly comment about his dead brother.  Not fun fun fun. Just bad vibes. Back to Smile...Brian is going to be forced to talk about Smile related things now because he, his wife, his management has signed off on his participation in promoting and approving this box set. Those are the things Brian talks about, the things he is currently promoting. Pet Sounds Live, BWPS, TLOS, Gershwin, Disney...Not because that's his hearts desire...but because that's what he's told to do. So a question about Fire footage should be right in line with what's happening in his world these days. But again, you never know...its Brian, anything might happen...but probably nothing will.

Things seem a little combative around here, and I haven't been paying that close of attention to know the nuances. I hope everybody cools out and has a good weekend.

Established minion!

f*** off.

Love it! Charming! You guys so quickly show your true colors! 

Thanks Jon, I hear what your saying.  I guess the point I was  making (this time) is that AGD is not really going to quiz Brian over 45 year old "Fire' footage.  It's all bluster!

As usual, your insights are informative and insightful.  Looking forward to your new book!  Congratulations.

Before Jules mentioned it, has there ever been a mention of a connection to Philadelphia with that film, or others? There are two specific TV shows which Jules might be referring to, perhaps without knowing what the shows were. The possibility of such a film - if it were in fact delivered to Philly for broadcast - is pretty high considering what the format of those programs included. Interesting development.

Anyone with a bit more info, it would be much appreciated.

Again, I had heard or had been told the film was intended for UK television. And that could be partially true or mostly true. It was definitely shown on UK television, we can prove that.

Yes, there's no doubting it was shown on UK television.  Never in doubt - never was disputed.  It was the official GV Promo shown in the UK  and, I imagine, other countries .  Wonder what US shows it played on, if any.  American Bandstand?  I have no idea what similar US Pop show were on at the time.

Jon, you could've practically heard my heart sank when you mentioned the ugly comment Brian made about Dennis. But then again, should I really be suprised? It's not that Brian has malace for his deceased brother, but in my experience with his interviews (never met him, heard more than you could imagine), Dennis' death is always whats on Brian's mind, I think there's a lot of unexpressed grief in Brian--hence why he stood up and told his people he doesn't want to play Dennis' songs. Bad memories.

I'm very dissapointed at the line of questioning expressed here about the questions AGD should ask Brian. It reads like very immature behavior. Once again, though, I'm not suprised.

C'mon, that's a put on/sarcasm!  He shouldn't bother Brian with this BS.  And he won't. 

This is just a continuation of a running spat begun a while back.

Think it was his insistence that Pete Best received no Beatles royalties.  AGD's been mad at me ever since he was proved so utterly wrong on that one.

Just as one guy posting on the internet, I think this should be a rule of message boards: if it's BS, it doesn't need to be posted. That's just me. Posting inane things insures that one's credibility goes downward.

This was twenty years ago, but back then when I mentioned to Brian that my two most favorite Beach Boy recordings were his song God Only Knows and Dennis' song Forever, Brian said absolutely nothing about God Only Knows but when Forever was mentioned he closed his eyes, smiled, then opened his eyes and went on and on about what a beautiful song Forever was and what a great job Dennis had done with it.  He also mentioned that his (Brian's) backing vocals on the fade hadn't been preplanned that way, but they just came to him and he started singing as the track was being played back.

As people have said many times before, one never knows exactly what to expect when speaking to BW.

FWIW, Brian did perform "Forever" in 2001 and 2002. The first time I heard him sing it was seriously one of the most amazing things I've ever seen. If you didn't believe in God, an afterlife, or whatever, believe me, if you had been at the Garden State Arts Center at the Brian/Paul Simon show in 2001, you would have instantly become a believer.

When Brian sang "Forever," it was absolutely not Brian. It wasn't Brian on stage, it wasn't even Brian's voice. The tall guy behind the keyboard sang "Forever" with both of his eyes closed and both hands on the microphone...and God help me, it was Dennis's voice that came out of his mouth. Brian was most certainly channeling his brother. (BTW, it was originally the plan that Brian would sing that at the TNT Tribute in 2001, but it was cut due to time; the band had already known it well because of that because they rehearsed it for the tribute.)

I seriously doubt Brian's default attitude toward Dennis is hostility 100% of the time; my guess is that Jon might have caught him at the wrong times...why else would Brian sing Denny's song on two tours?

He sang it at the show I went to in 2004 as well.

As for Brian's feelings about Dennis...I don't know how he really feels, but I wouldn't be surprised if his feelings change depending on his mood. I wouldn't be surprised if he was like that with Carl as well. I have my own theories, but that's all they are.

I'd respond but obviously you've either not read all the posts or, if you have, not understood them. 
My credibility is not the issue - I have none.  I profess no expertise in Beach Boy history or trivia.  But when attacked for expressing my opinion, I will respond.

Maybe you're one of his minions, maybe not.  If not , and you keep posting, you'll certainly experience the AGD  treatment in future.

But it's good you express your opinion and I support you doing so!!!!!
By the number of emails of support I've gotten, seems you're in the minority.  It has apparently been entertaining to many.


Now that this thread has taken a much, much more interesting turn, I'll leave it at that.

I have heard Brian say some really kind things about Dennis in years past. However, the subject is a difficult one for him. The fact that DW drowned is real scary to Brian. For the most part I've found Dennis is a sensitive subject, and Brian prefers to not go there. There are many reasons. Dennis looms large in the whole mystique of both Brian and the Beach Boys, and there's a very dark and tragic element too. There is brotherly love, and brotherly resentment and baggage. Its all there. Dennis loved his brothers and he drove them crazy. Same can be said about Brian. My orig. example wasn't to claim somehow that Brian hates Dennis, but more to point out that its a minefield and mentioning Dennis creates a significant potential for pain in BW, I've seen it.

I blame Landy for some of the bad feelings Brian might have. I agree that Dennis could have been a "dangerous" person to be around if you were newly sober. But the fact that Landy had Brian "estranged" from Dennis at the time of Dennis's death might significantly complicate how Brian feels about the situation.

I seriously fell on the floor laughing when Jon Stebbins wished everyone would "cool off and have a good weekend" and the following two posts were, "Established minion!" and "f*** off"

Incredibly fascinating thread and proof TBB have the best fans

The pm's certain people send in anger are rather humorous too.  ;)

:'( :'( :'(

Andrew didn't mean to hurt your feelings. Please, stop whining.

More mindless minions roll into action.  Is that COD as in you smell like a one or like to wear a cod piece?

Again, if my posts hurt your delicate feelings, don't read them.  I keep trying to move on but the airheads appear, one by one!

That's Chicken of Depression, but I also smell like cod and wear a cod piece.

Not a minion. Just tired of hearing you whine about Andrew. Try to remember this is the internet.

that part is better than the entire song! at 2:33 is something out of this world

i think all his worshiping minions affectionately refer to him as Andrew.

Wow,, the internet, thanks Einstein!  

I intend to offer surrender terms to 'Andrew' as not to further offend him.  But I AM getting tired of 'your' whining.
Really thought the thread had moved on to other things but two hours later there's you stirring things up again.
Even 'Andrew' had stopped.   

Again, see if you can R E A D this "if you don't like my posts, don't read them."

ps - Chicken of Depression, um, there's some credibility! Now go take you meds and you'll feel better in the morning.

Chill bro.

Whao, there's a handle from the past !  ;D

Yep, still here! My original handle was lost in the SMiLE Shop fallout, so now I'm just the boring COD. :(

Just love the passive-aggresive tone of "some" of the comments in this thread.

Sorry - I'll try harder.  ;)

Seriously, chill the f*** out. Now you're attacking people who haven't done sh*t to you. You have an issue with Andrew, that's one thing. That's between you two. There's no reason to jump on CoD's ass just because you have your panties in a twist. Stop this nonsense. Please.

Stop your whining Billy, chill the f*ck out. Now you're attacking people who haven't done sh*t to you.

Funny how you guy's don't see these little posts as pot shots.  Hypocrite!

I've stopped. AGD stopped......... you, COD. You zing me, I'll zing ya back

Knock it off, or you're going to be banned. You started it. Don't call foul when people throw your sh*t back in your face. And testing the mods on this matter is not exactly going to end very well for you and your continued membership here. Just a thought.

Ban away Manual.

To say I started this just shows you haven't been reading the thread.

Great,it's OK for you moderators throwing F bombs at 'me' but it's my fault I find that offensive?  
What sh*t? I simply repeated his words back to him back to him.You guys are the ones using all the profanity but ya wanna ban me?  Priceless!

I keep telling you guys, poke at me and I'll poke back.

If you want to discuss it, email me.  I very much hope this is the last post regarding this subject.

Or ban me, whatever!  Believe me, any end to this crap will be well (come).

Some of the connections between the discredited bio's account of Brian's 2nd trip & the GV film are:

1) Fire engines
2) Firemen
3) Things going backward in time
4) An apartment
5) Firemen falling down & stuff like that
6) Barbara Rovell

OK, let's not ban anybody here.  Nobody needs to get banned for anything.  Surfrider and the moderators have expressed themselves and I think everybody understands one another's concerns and differences of opinion. So now everybody just cool it and we move forward; can we do that?  It's all good.  Really.

Is this thread done or is there more to talk about here?

As long as that's the final word on the subject, I'm good with that.

I don't think the actual topic of the GV film is done yet: There is some new information within this thread about the Good Vibrations film which hasn't been published nor discussed anywhere previously, some new photos, and some new responses from one Jules Siegel which contain information which *may* lead somewhere very cool. That is, if it pans out...and that's in the process. Sometimes the best answers can be found right in your own backyard. Or in this case, people who I actually listened to on the radio, and hopefully it will turn into something.

Don't let the thread fade out, there might be something interesting around the corner. Hopefully!

Regarding Good Vibrations & the promo video....

Looking for connections here. Who knows what it's all about? Provide your stuff.

If you've got NOTHING under your hats, try my prior post.

Some of the connections between the discredited bio's account of Brian's 2nd trip & the GV film are:

1) Fire engines
2) Firemen
3) Things going backward in time
4) An apartment
5) Firemen falling down & stuff like that
6) Barbara Rovell

Where did Jules Siegel live at that time?

That's how it usually is. Thing is, this is arguably the best time to be a BB fan since the glory days. It's not just the fact that the TSS box set is going to be released; it's what that *means*. Any new BB converts that the set will bring will actually be way more informed than a lot of us who became fans in the years post-Kokomo* were. A lot of the mysteries have been solved, and a lot of myths have been busted.

*-I use the term "post-Kokomo" as that song was basically the end of the BB being taken seriously as current artists. I didn't become a fan myself until 1995, and 1997 is the year my fandom really became more of an obsession. For what it's worth, the biggest thing that we had to look forward to that year was the release of The Wilsons cd. :lol

What's the opposite of 'myths busted'?

Unbusted?

I would say that SMiLE's initial promise is well founded and that the hype from those days was completely justified!!!!

What's this about?

I incorrectly said:
Actually the hype from those days doesn't do it justice. I was a few levels beyond the hype.

Kokomo was a left field occurrence. The Beach Boys hadn't had a record contract in years when that happened. It really was a one off...a novelty...a fluke. The Beach Boys hadn't been taken seriously as current artists since the "Here Comes The Night" fiasco ten years earlier, and prior to that they'd been on the thinnest of ice since the sellout-fest 15BO left such a bad taste around the industry and fandom. I really think 1985 is the absolute cutoff, if there is one. Ω

Yeah...I'd agree on 1985, as that at least was a genuine BB album.

Sorry to derail the thread :D

This is a very good post, it put a smile on my face (seriously, no pun!). I grew up with the Beach Boys music in the house (specifically Best Of vol. 2 on 8 track) but knowing none of the history or backstories. That obsession started for real around 1991-92, and took off big time in 1993 when I got those parts of Smile that were able to be gotten on a cassette and saved up for the silverdiscs when possible, got the official box set, and got LLVS at Tower Records, to add to the preiss book which I scored at a flea market. Then seeing "American Band"...I had to track down that VHS at video stores all over Boston, finally finding an old copy. The infamous "Worms" video...that wasn't. ;)

The pursuit was fun, but to be a fan coming into all of this right now...as you said Billy C, what an amazing time. Beyond purchasing the box set in November, what incredible amounts of material are already out there for free, or by emailing or searching YouTube. Videos that were simply not available except by mail and sending an SASE to a collector for a current list or calling an ad in Goldmine are available after a few clicks. Amazing.

I will say that even in spite of the Kokomo/Full House/Home Improvements/Wipe Out public image, in the early to mid 90's there was a lot of Smile talk bubbling under among underground bands and musicians, and some of it came out in more mainstream bands when musicians like Billy Corgan or Todd Rundgren would name-check Smile in interviews. The bigger influence of Smile and Pet Sounds was there among musicians of a certain mindset, and they separated what they saw on network television versus the music in their collections.

Looking back, perhaps the nadir was the Beach Boys-Fat Boys collaboration which I remember being in pretty heavy rotation on MTV. No one talks about that too much. :-D

My local roller skating rink has the BB/FB Wipe Out on CONSTANT ROTATION. Seriously. I actually like that one know too.  :lol

That's cool, I have to say at that time it was on the air I didn't mind hearing that song whenever it was on MTV, it was pretty fun for what it was in context: But talking about the big picture of BB's history, it's rarely mentioned if ever discussed at all, and I'm guessing that is on purpose. Was that around '87? I honestly don't remember and won't look it up... ;D

One thing to consider is how fans of, say, Pet Sounds or Sunflower reacted to it when they first saw the video. "Is this the same band???".

They broke into uncontrollable weeping?  ;D

True... an uncanny coincidence, wouldn't you say ?  It's almost as if Todd Gold had actually seen the video before he wrote that.  ;)


Until he moved to Mexico in 1981, he lived in NYC: obviously while writing the SEP article, he was based in LA for the duration (late September to at least early 1967).

Nailed it.

Brian singing "Forever" in 2002 was the only time in my life I was close to tears at a concert. :'(


What is the source of this fact? (In this thread I have to point out that this question is not supposed to be a provocation, it is just a question.) I don't remember reading that before.

Inasmuch as Landy had Brian estranged from everyone, including his family, who wasn't on his payroll at that point in his life, yes, it's true. Oddly, one point where the pseudobiography is reliable.  :o  You also have to factor in that Dennis was also estranged from his own band in fall 1983.

Sadly, Dennis was even estranged from himself in Fall '83.

Jules Siegel's facebook photos include a shot of him in the GV film.

Slightly off topic but according to the Todd Gold book, the GV single (more specifically the production thereof) was envisioned during BW's 3rd trip (as you'll recall this is the water trip after the fire trip). So then, the genius Todd Gold worked out an imaginative connection between all this weird unexplained phenomena from the mid sixties. Let's face it Todd Gold puts Lewis Shiner to shame as far as this stuff goes. Gold figured out SMiLE & everything!!!

Andrew G. Doe said:


Obviously this quote is brilliant as usual because Andrew is alluding to the movie SECONDS & Rock Hudson's lead character Tony Wilson. Wilson say's, "It all began with a big red ball" as he draws a big ball. So Andrew's insightful comment, "...is that ball made by Wilson" certainly is not missed by this lucky reader.

That then begs the larger question about the movie SECONDS seemingly mysteriously knowing Brian's edits for the unreleased GV promo film prior to the promo's premiere and whether this line may have made Brian uncomfortable. Excellent work Mr. Doe.

http://www.script-o-rama.com/movie_scripts/s/seconds-script-transcript-rock-hudson.html

Tobelman, are you stoned?  Or are you just joking?  Why can't you look at stuff at face value sometimes?

Did you know that the sports equipment company named 'Wilson' made basketballs?

http://www.gophersport.com/products/results.cfm?Ne=1000002&N=1557+4294967159&gclid=CJ3Ei4GVmasCFcsaQgodX3R_lQ

Have you ever seen the picture of Brian Wilson (Beach Boys) holding a 'Wilson' baseball glove up to his face?

http://www.mostlymuppet.com/2011/04/11/whats-the-plural-form-of-brian-wilson/bw_bb_3/

'Scuse the interuption if AGD really was talking about the movie "Seconds", but I very much dowt it!!

"Come in, Mr. Wilson....."

light the lamp and fire mellow
cabinessence timely hello
welcomes the time for a change
lost and found you still remain there
you'll find a meadow filled with grain there
i'll give you a home on the range
who ran the iron horse
i ran the iron horse

i want to watch you wind blown facing
waves of wheat for your embracing
folksingasong of the grange
nestled in a kiss below there
the constellations ebb and flow there
and witness our home on the range

who ran the iron horse

have you seen the grand coulee working on the railroad
over and over the crow cries uncover the cornfield
over and over the thresher and hover the wheatfield

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnnrJ4tCqZM&feature=related

THIS SONG MAKES STRAWBERRY FIELDS FOREVER SOUND LIKE A BAD MONKEES SONG
[this post is for runnerzdialzero]

Seriously I think Brian just knew when he met Paul and heard She's Leaving Home and played Wonderful afterwards that if he released Smile then, it would send Paul into a nervous breakdown. Brian is too sweet to be so mean just to win a music competitive thing. That's an ego game, Brian blew his ego away, ask Bill Toblerone. Brian shelved Smile so that Paul would not be shattered upon hearing things like Cabinessence. Don't you know that Brian was horrified that Our Prayer & Cabinessence were put on 20/20? Fortunately Paul only listens to Beach Boys albums that Brian considered his own masterpieces so he still hasn't heard 20/20. But I guess since 2004 Paul has gotten used to Smile, Brian released the toned down BWPS to make it less earth shattering for him.

Why was 15 Big Ones considered a sellout?  I wasn't around to judge it in context.

15 Big Ones is a crude title. I resent even thinking of it. Imagine telling someone, my favorite album is 15 Big Ones by The Beach Boys. It sounds like a mix tape made by male strippers.

Sorry to be such a pain but someone said this about Barbara Rovell's red shirt in the GV video:

As you know Brian W. was a control freak on the details. Your claim may very well not be the case.

I like the "Sloop John B." sheet music shot. Seems like a SMiLE picture to me. The red on Brian with the red #1 on the engine. Reminds me of all the red circular references in the GV promo film & the reddish sun in Frank Holmes' drawings for SMiLE. Children typically make a yellow sun but Frank's were more on the red side of things. Coincidence maybe, just like the reddish tone of the photographs in the smile booklet.

The Beach Boys' SMiLE era clothes were the Western shirt with the check pattern and the moccasins. Pretty SMiLE don't you think? There is apparently significance and meaning attached to the clothes some people connected to the SMiLE era wore.

Columnated Kingston Trio striped shirt ruins turn into chessboard (too obvious, let's switch it to dominoes) domino. Frank, put a chessboard & dominos in two of your pictures.

Because every studio LP they had made up until that one showed at least some degree of artistic progression...or creative growth. 15BO was the first time the Beach Boys tried to cash in on what they used to be with a new LP specifically made to evoke their old self. Plus it was a rush job, it was half baked, and it made them seem irrelevant. It gave them some quick bucks, but it damaged their standing and their legacy. To me that is a sellout. But hey, easy for me to say...I don't have any alimony to pay, drug habits to feed, or llamas to shave.

geek or not......I love this vintage LA footage and discussion.  I was a young teen at the time captured in this film.......my favorite nostalgia.

Loved Dominic P's book "Riot on the sinset Strip  for the same reason.   Takes me back to a delicious time  :) :) :) :)

follow up to my last post

this thread took a nasty turn after a few pages.  too bad we can't just bask in the sunshine this music and film was intended to bring.....

 :) This kind of reply is awesome. I love the footage and discussion even though I wasn't there - to hear from those who were there and who have memories of these places captured on film is great.

If you lived in or near Los Angeles, were you tuning in to KHJ or KRLA for your music at that time?

15 big steaming piles of sh*t. 15 clunkers. 15 mistakes. big ones.

I think you mean 14 mistakes and Had To Phone Ya  ;)

The GV promo is Brian's SMiLE era thinking on display. The only thing missing is VDP lyrics.

The images presented and the deeper meanings within are lost on those approaching things from a practical perspective.

well, no, because that implies I don't like the album. I find all of the songs on it pleasant, but that's not what the album titles connotes.

Doesn't your 15 Big Steaming Piles of Sh*t title also imply you don't like the album?

"chapel of love" is awesome if only because it sounds like brian is some giddy little adult child singing it. that owns.

No. I just feel like that's what the title "15 Big Ones" says. what one would gather from the title. not what my opinion of the music within is.

 :)

 ;D

deleted by poster

Um... someone care to explain to me how you can inadvertently post a PM on a forum ?  And then leave it there for over two hours ?

have this thread open in one tab, guy's profile open in another tab, pm box in another tab, get mixed up which is which after banging the wife, post pm in thread by mistake.

you, being a bachelor, would not know of such realities, agd.

being senile and hungover is also a valid excuse :-[

Um......., that "Good Vibrations" is one hell of a good song!

While.....ehhhh.....banging the wife perhaps? :o

Who's banging wives around here??

It was just a joke. We know we're all virgins.

speak for yourself! i've kissed a many of cute boys