The Smiley Smile Message Board

The Beach Boys were working on SMiLE around then, which has become the Holy Grail of lost rock 'n' roll albums. What did you think about Brian and Van Dyke Parks' '04 version?

I'm not qualified to comment too much. Here's the deal: When you have Brian at his strongest and Carl, Alan, myself and Bruce singing our asses off in the '60s, doing Pet Sounds, doing "Good Vibrations" and working on SMiLE, you can't top it. People can copy that, but you'd be hard-pressed to come up with that group's level of chemistry and brilliance at that time. When you hear Brian Wilson sing "Wonderful" on the original SMiLE tapes it's unbelievable. Those tapes will be released November 1.

Have you been involved with the SMiLE reissue?

No, other than to comment on it. I was involved with recording the songs originally, but other people are putting the album together as well as a box set with lots of outtakes and different versions of songs. Do you have a favorite Beach Boys record?

You did write the song "Transcendental Meditation" on Friends.
I wrote a song more recently called "Cool Head, Warm Water," which was something the Maharishi [Mahesh Yogi] said to me once: "You need to have a cool head in warm water." So I made it into a little pop song. I've been meditating since I learned from him in Paris in 1967.

You're still hitting those high harmonies after all these years?

Carl's drug taking is mentioned again here, as he was my fave BB I'd like to know to what extent it affected his performances etc and whether he was a druggie from early on as Brian seems to have been. It's easy to think Carl was the 'clean and sensible' one of the group.

Brian singing Wonderful?

Carl was clearly smoking pot, taking LSD, hash, nitrous etc by 1967.

Wow, didn't realise it was all that by 67! It does surprise me.

Isn't there someone close to Mike who can tell him to finally give the whole "I came up with the "I'm picking up good vibrations" hook and I wrote 'Kokomo' without Brian's help" thing a rest? I think I've read about two dozen interviews by now where he mentions that and it gets really annoying. If Mike would ever wonder why people see him as the bad guy, that might be the reason. The Wilsons never bragged about their personal contributions like that... And the worst thing is that Mike doesn't even need to toot his own horn like that. He was an essential part of one of the most successful bands in the history of pop music, he sang on dozens of classic pop songs, he's been touring the world for half a century - that's impressive enough. He doesn't need to keep claiming all the little hooks and the album titles that he came up with.

What about it? You don't like his voice on it?

Well, lesse here.  First the guy starts off by saying "Talking with Mike Love is like having a conversation with the Devil". 


O.K.  I'm surprised, even at 70, that Mike didn't kick his ass.  Then, apparently, his first question to Mike is

"So you're still hitting those high harmonies after all these years"

This dumbass has no clue about anything involving the band, even though he's about to ask Mike everything negative he can find about him on the internet.  How Mike even puts up with morons like this is beyond me. 

As Mike usually does, he's completly complimentary to Brian in the entire interview.  He treats the interviewer with nothing but respect even though the guy was about to go write an article comparing him to Satan.  I mean what the f*ck. 

Mike's point about reality being a composite of different people's views, usually gets lost.  I like that. 

Next, the guy completely butchers Mike's song title.  It's Cool Head, Warm Heart, dumbass.  So he managed to insult Mike Love and Mahesh Yogi in the same sentence.

This guy doesn't deserve to interview the great Mike Love. 

Of course Mike couldn't resist one more time talking about the song credits when asked about his relationship with Brian. It's old news but Mike just has to let readers know which songs he wrote. He says he wrote every word to "California Girls" and most of the words to "Help Me Rhonda" and "I Get Around," but Mike makes note of the songs Brian got sole credit for previous to the court date. I'd just like to know if he really did write most of the words to those songs.

And he also wrote the "I'm picking up good vibrations" line as he has told us many times, but what else did he contribute to the song? Along with Wouldn't It Be Nice (which he says he had a part in and has been disqualified by Asher), what else specifically did he write on Good Vibrations??

Same ol' interview where he exercises his bragging rights and the ego kicks in again.

Isn't there someone close to Mike who can tell him to finally give the whole "I came up with the "I'm picking up good vibrations" hook and I wrote 'Kokomo' without Brian's help" thing a rest? I think I've read about two dozen interviews by now where he mentions that and it gets really annoying. If Mike would ever wonder why people see him as the bad guy, that might be the reason. The Wilsons never bragged about their personal contributions like that... And the worst thing is that Mike doesn't even need to toot his own horn like that. He was an essential part of one of the most successful bands in the history of pop music, he sang on dozens of classic pop songs, he's been touring the world for half a century - that's impressive enough. He doesn't need to keep claiming all the little hooks and the album titles that he came up with.

I try to give Mike a chance. I really do. But he just irritates me. Seems like every interview includes the following:
-Mike came up with "I'm picking up good vibrations," which is a crucial part of the song.
-And Mike also wrote [insert at least three more titles here]
-Mike co-wrote Kokomo [usually he'll mention it was #1] without Brian
-Mike hates drugs because look what they did to the Wilsons...Intentionally or not, this expression of love ends up sounding passive aggressive... "Dennis was all messed up on drugs" [no mention of Dennis' accomplishments]

In fact, it all comes off as very passive aggressive. He's trying to defend himself, but he never comes off in a very good light. I just can't imagine he'd be easy to hang around with for very long.

BTW, he's sounding terrific live these days. Give me anyday a new BW rocker with a ML lead! Cut it with half-assed pseudo artistic statements. Let these guys do it like it's 1967 on the Wild Honey album - ala HERE COMES THE NIGHT.

Fix'd.

I try to give Mike a chance. I really do. But he just irritates me. Seems like every interview includes the following:
-Mike came up with "I'm picking up good vibrations," which is a crucial part of the song.
-And Mike also wrote [insert at least three more titles here]
-Mike co-wrote Kokomo [usually he'll mention it was #1] without Brian
-Mike hates drugs because look what they did to the Wilsons...Intentionally or not, this expression of love ends up sounding passive aggressive... "Dennis was all messed up on drugs" [no mention of Dennis' accomplishments]

In fact, it all comes off as very passive aggressive. He's trying to defend himself, but he never comes off in a very good light. I just can't imagine he'd be easy to hang around with for very long.

Mike knows damn well the Myke haters will hate him no matter who he saves from falling off a 5 story balcony and nothing he can do can change it.

You left out part of the interview in your manic attempt to paint Mike as an butthole.  He mentioned the song writing credits because he mentioned the lawsuit.

Amy maybe you missed the part where the guy asked him why he's painted as the ass, and he explained because in the 60's he wasn't taking drugs like the boys were, and he hated seeing it ruin their lives.  Sounds perfectly logical to me.

He's a touring band.  It's an interview about a concert.  You dont' think maybe he'd mention the things he did, so people will come see the show?  He went out of his way, over and over again, to talk about how great Brian is. 

Brian talks himself up too!

Only difference is the interviewers goad him on!

Wow, didn't realise it was all that by 67! It does surprise me.

iI had always thought that Carl didn't have a drug problem (as opposed to using) iuntil 1977-78.

Yes. But that difference is crucial.

Really?

I left out a whole lot about Mike. Mike has already been painted as a butthole many times over from different directions. One more opinion is not going to make any difference here. I don't hate Mike by any means. He's got to be congratulated on 50 years of spreading the word of Brian. Any negative feelings that people have for him is his own fault. A good example of this is the R & R Hall of Fame speech.

The interviewer asked Brian, "How is your relationship with Brian?" And Mike immediately refers to the past and his lawsuit about the song credits. That was what, way back in 1992 - 19 years ago! What's that got to do with his relationship with Brian now? He could have said he talked/saw Brian recently and they had dinner or recorded together or maybe talked reunion - why dredge up negative stuff from the past? He didn't mention the lawsuit back in '05 where the court threw out his lawsuit against Brian and the Daily Mail. But why did Mike even go there? Again? Is that the first thing that came to his mind? He still wants to be recognized for the lyrics he wrote to the songs. He still mentions the lyrics he wrote for songs during Beach Boys concerts!


From a recent interview:

How do you react to the continued attention paid to "Smile"?

ML: What's left of "Smile" is a shell. It would have been a great record but he [Brian] just didn't have the will or the ability to finish it. See, a lot of the Brian bullsh*t rests around that album and it's nothing, it's just fragments. Who wants to hear about Brian's mental problems anyway? Sweet Insanity. A whole album of Brian's madness that no one wants to release and still everyone says he's a genius! I make "Kokomo", it goes to number one in the charts and I'm still the dumb, know-nothing, talentless Mike Love.

NOW you know why Mike side-stepped the question concerning SMiLE. It still fries him to talk about it.

A guy from this board e-mailed me today. He has an interview with Mike Love in a couple of days and asked me what I would like to ask Mike. Any ideas from the board members here that I can pass on?  ;D

Of course. There is a difference between someone asking you to talk about your work, and you bringing it up on your own. That's elementary.

Sure, but maybe the interviewer should not have opened up the interview by telling Mike what a dick he is. But he did, therefore Mike felt the need to back himself up a bit and speak about his contributions.

SMiLE would have been great but it is unfinished. Is that a dodge or untrue?

Some questions I would like to ask Mike Love:

Name some songs that you think have been overlooked (what songs would knock the casual fan off their feet if they heard them for the first time)?

What do you think each member brought to the band?

What do you miss most about Dennis and Carl?

What do you tthink of 'Love You', 'Wild Honey', 'Friends' and 'Smiley Smile'.

That interview was from 1993. The SMiLE album was nothing, there was no album, and it was fragments. Is that untrue?

That interview was from 1993. The SMiLE album was nothing, there was no album, and it was fragments. Is that untrue?

I find it difficult to have respect for the Mike haters. I have to admit it. I find it difficult because they don't even attempt to utilize any logic or empathy or natural human consideration. It's like they've been indoctrinated to a train of thought and, like the George W Bush mentality, they will hang onto it no matter what opposing evidence/common sense might attempt to present itself.

But if you look at Mike as an actual human being and put yourself in his shoes or try and relate his experiences to any of your own that have created jealousy resentment, lack of due credit: it makes sense.

Pete Townsend scrapped "Lifehouse" in part due to the indifference/criticism of his fellow bandmates, but no one feels sorry for Townsend, so it's not even an issue.

"It was a great mistake to put Brian in full control.
He was always the ultimate Producer, but little did he know
that in his absence people grew up. People became as sensitive
as the next guy. Why do I relinquish my rights as an artist?
The whole process was a little bruising"

That's a Dennis quote (regarding 15 Big Ones) that I don't hear anyone complaining about or trashing him over. But let's just imagine if it was Mike who'd said that! There would be 10000 page threads on that very quote blowing up this forum if that had been the case.

It does not make sense for him to call Smile "nothing".

"It does not make sense for him to take credit for The Beach Boys success. Period. It does not make sense for him to call Smile "nothing". Sure, Mike was screwed for some things and, unfortunately, that has absolutely nothing to do with his behaviour which he exhibited as far back as the Surfin' demo when after Brian jokingly threatened to "pop" Dennis in the mouth and that Dennis could pop him back, Mike took it his eloquent step further by saying that he would pop Dennis in the mouth so hard, he couldn't pop him back."

Amazing how a founding/core member, frequent lyric writer (including those for some hits)  of a successful band can't even make mere mention of his contributions (while himself giving Brian higher acclaim) without someone coming stampeding up accusing him of taking credit for their success and using this as irrefutable evidence to support their own complex opinions of the guy!

Why do I even try?

Amazing how a founding/core member, frequent lyric writer (including those for some hits)  of a successful band can't even make mere mention of his contributions (while himself giving Brian higher acclaim) without someone coming stampeding up accusing him of "taking credit for their success" and using this as irrefutable evidence to support their own complex opinions of the guy!

Why do I even try?

And you're splitting serious hairs regarding the popping in the mouth B.S.

Brian opened the subject up and Mike just ran with it!

Which is why he didn't do it.

And Mike's arrogance is a lot of the charm in his early vocals. It comes across, but is an integral part of their early sound.

And yes, I was speculating regarding The Who and Lifehouse, but it was educated speculation.

Below is an interesting page.

Eerily similar to the Smile situation. Only in this case, Lifehouse fell apart and their "cobbled together" replacement album was an absolute classic!

http://www.earcandymag.com/rrcase-lifehouse.htm

Well, please remember Mike is a Wilson relative: a rock star: a guy who's never really had to grow up like the rest of us and go get a job. He's just as messed up as a lot of other guys in his position.

I'm actually referring directly to his comments in the Endless Harmony documentary where he said, verbatim:

"Ultimately I think the Beach Boys meant so much to so many people because of the positivity and that was me."

I once saw Him standing onstage next to Dennis singing Surfer Girl.. Dennis leaned back on Electric Piano and it moved and he almost fell over..Meanwhile Mike moved in opposite direction.. No help for Dennis.. Its also in a concert video from late 70"s.

There's an article given on this very thread where he says exactly that.

Maybe it's me but there seems to agreement with what Mike says while disagreeing with what he means. Mike says SMiLE is great; how would that mean it's "nothing" in the sense that is being projected on it?

From the 1993 interview:

"ML: What's left of "Smile" is a shell. It would have been a great record but he [Brian] just didn't have the will or the ability to finish it. See, a lot of the Brian bullsh*t rests around that album and it's nothing, it's just fragments."

There's only one way that I interpret that quote, and it's in context. He's minimizing the importance of SMiLE by saying it's "nothing, just fragments". It's not a completed album, so it's "nothing", he's insinuating. He's also saying that the attention that Brian gets because of Smile is B.S. That's how I see it.

And my response to that is if it's "nothing", then why they are now making three different CD and vinyl sets out of it, including a large 5 CD and 2 vinyl album box set with a book?

What interview.

He did not say any such thing in the article this thread is about.

In an article from 1993, Mike -- who had just gone through a bitterly contested lawsuit with his cousin -- was asked about the album.

Part of what he said: "It would have been a great record but he [Brian] just didn't have the will or the ability to finish it. See, a lot of the Brian bullsh*t rests around that album and it's nothing, it's just fragments."

Notice: He said Smile was potentially great record. And that it was fragmented. Both of these things are true. To say he simply called the album "nothing" is like saying that he called Smile a "great record." Both statements use words he uttered in the quote, but they both use them ludicrously out of context.

Well, in the interview you pasted, he doesn't say it's great. He says it "would have" been great but unfortunately because of Brian's lack of will and ability, it is nothing.

And I believe he's not real high about the music of Smile today.

Well, all we have are his words to go on. And he has high praise currently.

So he's either a villain because he doesn't like it, or he's a villain because he's lying and says he does.

Well, all we have are his words to go on. And he has high praise currently.

So he's either a villain because he doesn't like it, or he's a villain because he's lying and says he does.

THE friggin' INTERVIEWER STARTED WITH THE ASSUMPTION HE WAS A VILLIAN.  lol

The interviewer is such a brilliant piece of work he thinks Mike is much like the devil and sang all the high parts.  No wonder Mike asked him if he had a favorite Beach Boys song.


I mean can you imagine the nerve?  Here's this young punk writing for creative loafing telling him about things he supposedly did in the 60's, and trying to talk drugs with a guy who was living this sh*t and saw family members die from it.  The whole interview was out of line.  If the guy thinks Mike is the devil, he wouldn't have had a noun to compare me to because he never would have forgot that interview. 

My interview would have started something like


"Look motherf*cker.  I'm not a villian and I didn't sing the high parts.  Brian and I exchange christmas cards.  You buy his christmas cd.  There's a difference.  If you mention somebody I know that's dead, I'm going to whip your ass"

The interviewer is such a brilliant piece of work he thinks Mike is much like the devil and sang all the high parts.  No wonder Mike asked him if he had a favorite Beach Boys song.

See, this is the thing. We all love BW here. But who would want to spend more than a few minutes interacting with him in a social situation? Doesn't it seem like it would be kind of a chore? On the other hand, I bet going out for dinner with Mike would be really entertaining.

I really am unclear at this point - do you believe that the interviewer read the introduction of his article to Mike Love?

1. The outcome of the lawsuit was the year before the 1993 interview. Mike won. Big time. No reason for him to hold onto grudges.

2. It wasn't bitterly contested. Brian pretty much folded like a wet noodle, fell asleep, and didn't contest anything.

3. Ultimately it was Murry that Mike had to blame for the lack of song credits, not Brian.

See to me if Mike likes Smile doesn't matter. He did a good job singing on the sessions and helped considerably with Good Vibrations. The Asher lyrics were terrible.

The Asher lyrics were terrible.

It actually went to trial. That's pretty unusual for a case like this. Settlements are generally reached -- and Mike's side offered one that would have saved Brian a lot of time and money. It says a lot about the team surrounding Brian and how they reacted to Mike's request for credit. Do you think that didn't sting Mike? That to get what was rightfully his -- credit on some of the band's biggest songs -- that he had to drag his cousin into court? It's insane.

I really like 'em. And I like the way Brian sang them. Liked it ever since I first heard them on "The Beach Boys Best Summers Of Our Lives" radio show in 1976. I played that version over and over on a cassette back then.

A guy from this board e-mailed me today. He has an interview with Mike Love in a couple of days and asked me what I would like to ask Mike. Any ideas from the board members here that I can pass on?  ;D

Part of what he said: "It would have been a great record but he [Brian] just didn't have the will or the ability to finish it. See, a lot of the Brian bullsh*t rests around that album and it's nothing, it's just fragments."

Not wanting to be pro or con Mike (here) but I thought it was interesting that Brian sez (Pet Sounds DVD) that he told him in 1966 that using an outside lyricist for Pet Sounds was "just this once". Also, it would take a lot less time to read and glean information from some of these threads if there wasn't so much insistence on having the last word once you've already made your point. IMHO.

That incident with pushing a piano ..Mike into BW i believe occured at CBS convention late 70"s London England.. Cause BW was bored just playin the OLD stuff..I believe..

Mike's done some questionable things, said a lot that's, at best, ill-advised and has a character that rubs a lot of folk up the wrong way. But... Brian's done a lot of reprehensible stuff too, as have all the others.

No hereos, no villains, only shades of gray.

Nah. Like I said, I'm not sure if I could name anyone from a 60s rock and roll band who has poorer social skills than Mike Love.

Mike's done some questionable things, said a lot that's, at best, ill-advised and has a character that rubs a lot of folk up the wrong way. But... Brian's done a lot of reprehensible stuff too, as have all the others.

No hereos, no villains, only shades of gray.

"I wrote a song more recently called "Cool Head, Warm Water," which was something the Maharishi [Mahesh Yogi] said to me once: "You need to have a cool head in warm water." So I made it into a little pop song."

What the frick is that all about?  Was Mike just feeding him some crap because the interviewer was kind of clueless and a bit rude?

I really like 'em. And I like the way Brian sang them.

Did you mention the parts where he gave more praise to Brian than himself?  Calling Brian a musical genius?  Talking about Brian's harmonies?  Re-Read it without the jade this time.

Because I think the "Early take" has Carl on vocals too, but with a more Wild Honey singing style.

You mean on BWPS? Because I think the "Early take" has Carl on vocals too, but with a more Wild Honey singing style.

This is what I'm talking about. The two verses, probably recorded around February, 1966:

I, I love the colorful clothes she wears,
And she's already working on my brain.
I only looked in her eyes,
But I picked up something I just can't explain.

And I'm pickin' up
Good, good, good, good vibrations, yeah!
A-well I'm pickin' up
Good, good, good, good vibrations, yeah!

I, I bet I know what she's like,
And I can feel how right she'd be for me.
It's weird how she comes in so strong,
And I wonder what she's pickin' up from me.
            
Hum de dum, Hum de dum, oh-oh,
Hum de dum, Hum de dum, oh-oh.
Hum de dum, Hum de dum, oh-oh,
Hum de dum, Hum de dum, oh-oh.