The Smiley Smile Message Board

I've longed for several years now to be able to take a time machine back to 1965 and 66 to attend the Pet Sounds sessions.  There is something about them that draws me in.  So I've tried to put myself there by learning as much about what happened as I can.  It's been terribly frustrating, as info is extremely difficult to find.  Engineers that were there don't remember much, the musicians weren't concerned with certain details, etc, etc.  Information is there, but very little of it is up to the specificity I'd desire.

So, for the benefit of others, and mostly for my own fun, I've put together this little piece to help us feel a little closer to those sessions.  Now, it's fairly technical in terms of recording, so most people may not find it interesting from a personal standpoint, but hopefully somebody will like it.

I've divided it into three sections:

The Players
The Set-Up
The Sound

Keep in mind throughout that a lot of what I'm writing is educated speculation.  Assume as much unless I say otherwise.  If I know something for sure as a fact I will indicate that.  If not, it's just my guesses aided by whatever info I could find.  I try to indicate my sources wherever possible.


Anatomy of a recording session:  Cutting Wouldn't it be Nice at Gold Star Studio A.

The Players

Sometime in the early part of the year 1966, likely January...possibly the 22nd, Brian Wilson presumably placed a call to a contractor, possibly Hal Blaine, or possibly straight through to one of the contracting services.  Hal prefered to use Arlyn Henry's service.

Whoever it ended up being called the following sixteen players to appear at 7pm at Gold Star:

Hal Blaine
Steve Douglas
Frankie Capp
Roy Caton
Al de Lory
Carl Fortina
Plas Johnson
Carol Kaye
Larry Knechtel
Barney Kessel
Jerry Cole
Frank Marocco
Jay Migliori
Bill Pitman
Ray Pohlman
Lyle Ritz

Presumably, they start shuffling in sometime before 7, to get ready to work.

Hal Blaine, Drums - studio drummer extraordinaire. 
(http://www.drummerworld.com/pics/drum16/halblaine.jpg)

Steve Douglas, Tenor Sax
(http://musicbooksplus.com/images/Un135.jpg)

Frank Capp, Percussion and Timpani
(http://web.cfa.arizona.edu/tommy/images/Frank_Capp.jpg)

Roy Caton, Trumpet (he's the one in back, w/glasses)
(http://www.carolkaye.com/www/library/photogallery/assets/033.jpg)

Al de Lory, Piano
http://www.aldelory.com

Carl Fortina, Accordion

Plas Johnson, Tenor Sax
(http://www.jazz-in-weil.de/images/Photogalerie/Plas%20Johnson%20JiW%2031.03.90.gif)

Carol Kaye, Fender Bass
http://www.carolkaye.com

Larry Knechtel, Piano
(http://home.cogeco.ca/~mansion2/thumb434.jpg)

Barney Kessel, Guitar (of some sort, more on this later)
(http://www.jerrypippin.com/barney%20Kessel.jpg)

Jerry Cole, Guitar
(http://www.cargorecords.co.uk/pics/artistpics/jerrycolepic.jpg)

Frank Marocco, Accordion
(http://www.valerio.com.br/fotos/Imagens/FrankMarocco.jpg)

Jay Migliori, Baritone Sax
(http://www.migliori.com/images/jay_migliori.jpg)

Bill Pitman, Guitar

Ray Pohlman, Danelectro Bass

Lyle Ritz, String Bass (Now a major ukelele star, btw)
(http://www.ukuleleguild.org/press/2004/newsvoc/Chang_Lyle_Ritz_150.jpg)


So, picture those players ambling in, saying a quick hello to Larry and Brian, and staring to get ready.  I'll put up part 2 in a bit.

Part 2:  The Set-Up

I guess if you're picturing those players, it'd probably help to picture the place they were setting up in:  Gold Star Studio.

Studio A was a small room.  Not quite as small as Western 3, but cozy.  Very roughly 20 ft. by 30 ft.

http://www.goldstarrecordingstudios.com

(http://www.goldstarrecordingstudios.com/galler1.gif)

That's roughly 3/4 of the studio, and features many of the players here tonight.

Disregard the way the musicians are set up in that picture, that was a one-off experiment.

Hal learned early that he needed to have two drumsets.  His drum tech would follow him around town and pre-set up the set at Hal's next session.  Hal was not playing the monster 12 piece set he made famous later at this point.  He likely had a four piece set up this evening, a bass drum, two tom-toms, and his Ludwig supraphonic chrome snare.

The drums were usually set up in the back of the room.
(http://www.carolkaye.com/www/library/photogallery/assets/012.jpg)
Neither of those guys were at this session, but it gives you an idea of the back center of the studio.  Note the little sound walls used to section off the instruments.  This was an attempt at controlling the sound a little bit.

One thing that needs to be noted, is that for two reasons, Hal may not have set up in back for this song.  For one, Brian liked Hal up front by the booth for easy visual contact, and Hal has confirmed that he set up close to the glass for Brian at Western, so he may have done the same at Gold Star.

Second, Hal had to wear headphones for the song, because the intro guitars were direct into the system and not audible in the studio.  Hal was the only one wearing phones, at that time it was not that common for people to be wearing phones during a tracking sesion.  So, I'm not positive if the studio would have been prepared to have a long 25 foot plus run of heaphone cable all the way to the back.

The drums were almost certainly mic-ed up with only two microphones.  It's been hard to pin down, but according to three Larry Levine interviews, plus two "classic tracks" recollections about tracks made in that time period, I feel fairly confident that the standard set-up was a Neumann U67 over the set and an RCA 44 a few feet back from the bass drum.

(http://209.200.79.90/images/gear/u67(1).jpg)
(http://erosadis.com/RCA_44.jpg)

The Percussion, played by Frankie Capp, would have consisted of what sounds like a tamborine, and a set of Timpani.

(http://www.yamaha.ca/content/bandorchestra/products/concertandmarchingpercussion/concertpercussion/Timpani%206100/images/highres/Timpani%206100-2.jpg)

Frankie would likely be positioned somewhere near the drums.  I have no idea what mics were used.  Due to input limitations, it may very well have been one Condenser or Dynamic over the timpani that was also expected to pick up the percussion during the verses.  There is photographic evidence of somebody using a Shure 545 on tambourine at Gold Star during a session, somewhere.

The basses would be close to the back, along the wall, likely the left wall.

In this case, the bass players were Carol Kaye and Lyle Ritz.

Carol would have definitely been playing her Fender Precision Bass through her Fender Super Reverb Amplifier.

(http://www.fender.com/products/prod_images/basses/0190116800_md.jpg)
(http://www.fender.com/products/prod_images/amplifiers/0217600000_md.jpg)

The Amplifier would have been captured by some sort of dynamic microphone.  Really no way to know, but Gold Star seems to have favoured Electro Voice, either the 666 model or the RE-15.  Shure 57s and 545 are other candidates.


Lyle Ritz' upright string bass had an extension on it that allowed him to go down to a low C if necessary.  Little else is known.  According to a few photos of one of Brian's two Pet Sounds sessions at Gold Star, it would appear that at one of them, a Sennheiser 421 was used to capture the String bass.

(http://shop.sennheiserusa.com/retail2002/images/catalog/md421-II_normal.jpg)

More tomorrow...

"...so most people may not find it interesting from a personal stand."

as a musician/songwriter who's completely into the nuances of recording, i love this stuff. it's your forte, josh. you're passionate and talented. keep up the great work!  :)

This is THE greatest thread EVER made in the history of Beach Boys message boards. That picture of the musician's in the room, all crowded in cozily is so amazing. I now understand why you can no longer go about music alone, Josh. It's all about that feeling shared by those people when playing the groove so perfectly together.

I have a question about the drum mic'ing. If it were one overheard, and one a few feet off of the kick, did they ever experience any problems with the volume surges of either tom or cymbal? Often when I've recorded our drums in a similar mic'ing technique we've encountered problems with the cymbals. Could this be why cymbals are rarely used heavily in Brian's sessions?

Yeah, this is a great thread. I'll follow it closely,

aeijtzsche,
      Your post is one of the greatest and most informative that I have ever seen. The obvious time, care, and effort you put into it is much appreciated. Thank you...

Add my thanks to the list.  This kind of insight and information certainly adds to my appreciation of the work and the people behind it, and enhances the listening experience.

Good job, man. 
One minor correction:  the engineer would've been Larry (Levine), not Chuck (Britz), since it
was Gold Star, not Western.

Possible minor correction:  I don't think Ray played the Dano bass on this session...for one, I don't hear it, for another, I think he's nomally credited with one of the two mandolins on this song.

But what do you think about this:  the opening guitar...two guitars, actually...the main part, maybe it's a bouzouki?  Have you ever seen one?  Could that be the 12-string mando/guitar looking thing Barney is pictured holding in the "PS" box set booklet (the green one)?  Brian once praised Barney for his "ring-a-ding" guitar on this song. 

C-Man

Great thread! I look forward to reading more. I never kknew Carol used a Super Reverb. I have a super and a precision, but it doesn't sound that great through it (I guess it's my settings). It sounds much better through my Twin Reverb. Any tips on what settings to use?

This is the coolest thread idea ever Josh!  I greatly look forward to seeing where it goes.  That studio pic of the whole group is awesome, it's amazing how they got such a big sound out of such a little room. 

That really is a fantastic piece of work. Thanks for sharing it with us.

Cheers,
Alex

It definitely contributed to less cymbal use.


Whoops.  I think I corrected all the instances of saying Chuck instead of Larry.  Interesting that Larry says he didn't work with Brian much and that Stan Ross did. 


Well, since there aren't mandolins on the song, he couldn't have been playing a mandolin.  If you listen carefully right after take 19 or so you can hear him roll down the strings of the Dano.  E-B-G-D-A-E, letting them all ring, so it has to be a 6-string rather than Carol strumming her Fender.  Plus, it's the Dano doubles the bass line an octave above at the "you know it's gonna make it that much better" chorus parts, and then doubles the bridge in the same octave.  If you listen for it, you'll hear that the bassline suddenly gets a little fatter.


My cousin owns a Bouzouki and I've played it extensively.  What Barney has is certainly not a traditional bouzouki, but probably does the job of one.  Whatever it was had to have had a pickup though, to go direct...

Ok, moving along on part 2:

Larry Knechtel and Al DeLory would have been playing two seperate pianos.  Apparently Gold Star was stocked with a small grand piano as well as an upright piano with hardened hammers to create the "Tack Piano" effect.  Unlike these days, the piano was not mic-ed in stereo at all, obviously since mono was the final goal.  So each piano would have had it's own mic.  Again, some dynamic mic, probably (but not limited to) from the folllowing list:

Electro-Voice 666
(http://reel2reeltexas.com/vinEV-666a.jpg)

Electro-Voice RE-15
(http://www.oaktreeent.com/web_photos/microphones/Electro-Voice_RE-15_Microphone_web.jpg)

Shure 545
(http://images.google.com/url?q=http://www.625-net.ru/archive/z0205/shure545.jpg)

Shure 546

Shure 57
(http://www.microphonerentals.com/images/Microphone_Images/Shure/images/Shure%20SM%2057_jpg.jpg)

For a rock session like this, it seems the mics would be in there pretty good, often with the lids of the pianos almost closed with the mics inside.

The keyboards on this session were likely somewhere to the left side of the room, towards the front middle.

There were four guitars on this date.  Of those four, two were in the booth and two were out in the studio.  For a typical Gold Star session, the guitar players sat with their backs against the right wall.

(http://www.carolkaye.com/www/library/photogallery/assets/021.jpg)

If they had amps, they would be facing them, so they could monitor their own sound.

(http://www.carolkaye.com/www/library/photogallery/assets/017.jpg)

Tonight, Bill Pitman is in the studio on guitar.  After trying a few different ones for Brian, Brian decides he wants to hear the round, indistinct click of a strummed box guitar.  Brian wanted a little percussive rhythm from the guitar, so rather than ampfliy the guitar, he mic-ed it acoustically.

I have no idea what kind of Guitar Bill was using, but it looked something like this:
(http://www.frets.com/FRETSPages/General/Glossary/Box/BoxViews/box02.jpg)

Ray Pohlman was playing a 6-string Bass Guitar, made by Danelectro.
(http://www.bassplayer.com/Pictures/web/e/y/s/DSC_1482_2.jpg)

This would certainly have been amplified by a Fender Bassman
(http://www.fender.com/products/prod_images/amplifiers/2171000010_md.jpg)

And here are both in action, though not at Gold Star.  Ray is the guy to the right, farthest right in the foreground.
(http://www.utstat.utoronto.ca/mikevans/hroberts/photos/Roberts-Tedesco-Pohlman-Ritz)

Let's go in the booth to talk about the guitar players in there.

Tonight, Barney Kessel and Jerry Cole have plugged their guitars right into the console's inputs, bypassing the need for an amp.  In addition to saving space in what was a crowded studio, it's also a great sound for 12-strings, especially when awash in Gold Star's famous reverb chamber.

Each guitarist would have plugged into some kind of tube, passive Direct Injection box, which would take their signal and make it more agreeable to the kind of volume the console works with.

Jerry was playing some kind of 12-string electric guitar.  The Fender XII was the de facto studio standard:
(http://www.loncohen.com/pix/images2/66fenderelectricxii.jpg)

But it could have been a Mosrite, or another guitar maker.

Barney Kessel was playing a 12-string instrument as well...however there is some debate about if it was just another 12-string guitar, or if it was something slightly different.  One of Barney's kids mentioned how his father had played Mandolin on the intro.  Brian seemed to hold the particular instrument used in some different regard than he would a regular 12-string.  Plus, the sound is just kind of "woodier" than a normal electric 12-string.

The visual evidence has Barney playing one of these:
(http://www.someoneliving.com/barney.jpg)

It appears to be a standard Gibson 12-string neck attached to a fairly standard Mandolin body.  It's possible that if this instrument had a pickup, that is what Barney played on WIBN.

That's the rhythm section, next we'll move on to the Color Instruments.

Brian's classic Sax line-up was at the session.  Steve, Jay, and Plas had been around Brian enough to know what he liked.  Hopefully they were all friendly with each other, too, because due to input limitations, they likely would have had to crowd around one microphone.  Brian would then adjust the balance by having one of them move in or move farther away.

I have Larry Levine on record more than once saying that the saxes typically got an RE-15 for the lot of them.

Roy Caton on trumpet may have been asked to share the mic with the sax section, or he may have got his own mic.  There were a lot of players on tonights session, and they may have had to sacrifice somewhere.  However, if we was on his own, he would have probably been on the venerable RCA-44, see Drums, above.

The horn section seems to have been placed in the right back on Brian Wilson sections.  If you have the UM SOT Pet Sounds sessions, one of the CD liners has a picture in it that shows Steve Douglas in a cool hat in the position I've described.

And now, onto one of the most important parts:  The accordions.

Accordions generate sound by bellowing air through a system of reeds.  There are all kinds, from small to large.  Frank Marocco and Carl Fortina were likely using the full Accordion with bass keys.

(http://weltmeisteronline.com/images/accordion-1.jpg)

At some point during the evening, Mr. Marocco showed Brian that he could do this "triple bellow shake", a demanding technique that you can hear during the the final, slowed chorus.  "It seems the more we talk about it..."  Using the violin reed setting, it sounds as if a violin section is playing a vigorous sustained tremolo figure, or perhaps sounds as if Mandolins are being tremolo picked (which is probably why somebody started crediting mandolin players in the liners).

This is another instance where I have no idea what mic was used.  Undoubtedly, they were both being mic-ed by the same microphone.  In my heart, I tend to think it would have been an RCA 77, a classic ribbon mic.  But I doubt there's any way to know.

(http://www.airborneaudio.com/files/mics/rca-77-dx.jpg)


coming soon, part 3...

The key is more with the bass than the amp.  Either palm mute the bass, or use Carol's felt muting method.  It's essential to do some kind of muting.

Perhaps you're thinking of California Girls?  Carl was actually in Japan at the time of this session.

Apparently those are the accordions (I knew this before)! What a neat sound.

No, I know the part you're referring to, where it does kinda sound like mandolins but is actually accordions...but I'm talking about the part right before that...the couple of bars right before Brian
starts singing and the tempo starts to slow.  Surely it's at least one acoustic guitar, mandolin, or
ukulele...

C-Man

Ah, I see. I can't pick out any mandoliny sounds there myself, but I'm not really good at that sort of thing.

It's the acoustic guitar that's strumming during the ritard.  It actually plays for most of the song, but it's not really heard until then, since it's more of a foundation instrument, a technique sadly lost to today's individual tracked, fix-it-in-the-mix mentality.

I would heave a great sigh of relief if it could be pinned down definitively what it was.  The problem is, I've never experimented with amplified mandos or bouzoukis.  So I don't know what they sound like.  I've heard Bellzoukis and those pretty much sound just like electric 12-strings.  I imagine Brian would have some idea if he were asked, Larry probably wouldn't remember.  Sounds like Mar or some girl was in the booth, but who knows if Marilyn would remember such details.  Barney is gone, Jerry is still around, perhaps he could recall if pressed for more detail.  Cripes, somebody has to know!

PART 3:  The Sound

So, everybody's set up, comfortable with the music, microphones are set, and it's time to capture the sound.

All of the mics capturing the various instruments are plugged into the console, as are the two guitars that are bypassing microphones.  The console then reduces the number of different elements to three outputs that feed the tape machine.

In the 60s, most consoles were made in-house by the resident equipment guru.  In this case, Gold Star's go to guy was Dave Gold.  He fashioned the mainframe of the console.  At that time Bill Putnam's company, now known as Universal Audio, made the best input channels on the market, so Dave's console was built to accomodate those.

Here are the individual channel strips each microphone would have been plugged into:

(http://www.uaudio.com/webzine/2004/august/graphics/610-strip.gif)

The console fully assembled would looks something like this:

(http://www.uaudio.com/webzine/2004/august/graphics/ua_modular_console.jpg)

Actually, the above console is a lot more like the console at Western 3 than the Gold Star console, but so be it.

Here is the actual Gold Star Console:
(http://www.spectropop.com/images/zzprogsboard1.gif)

You can read more about the consoles of the 60s here:
http://www.uaudio.com/webzine/2004/august/index4.html

Now, Larry Levine has testified that their console was a 12 input console, meaning it could accomodate 12 mics.  He also has said that they had an additional little sidecar mixer to help them out if they needed more than 12 inputs.  I'm assuming that that system was in place by this time.

Let's look at the input set-up:

Input #
1.  Drum overhead mic
2.  Kick/bass drum mic
3.  Percussion/Timpani
4.  Fender Bass
5.  String Bass
6.  Dano Bass
7.  Box Guitar
8.  Baby Grand Piano
9.  Upright Tack Piano
10.  Accordions
11.  Saxes
12. Trumpet
13. 12-string guitar, Direct Injection
14.  12-string guitary-thing, Direct Injection

If the sidecar mixer added a few more inputs, I'd imagine that would split the Timpani and Percussion/glock into two mics used.

Since Gold Star's console was built during the brief 3-track era, it probably has three program busses.

Busses are simply groupings of inputs that go to a common output.  In other words, if you look at the above list, you are able to split it up into three parts that will go to seperate tracks of tape.  This simply gave Brian a little more control if he needed to slightly adjust the volume of a certain element for the final mono bounce down.

The 610 input module generally had the buss selection setup as a three-position switch, labeled L-C-R, for "left, centrem and right."  Since Stereo was not the goal here, those terms were arbitrary designations.

According to my ears, this is how Larry and Brian decided to group the inputs:

1.  Horns.  The Saxes and Trumpet got their own track, and typically Brian would isolate the horns.  Since they aren't amplified electrically, it was crucial to have control over the volume.  The horns wouldn't really leak onto the other tracks, unlike the electric instruments, guitars, basses, organs, which are all over all the tracks.

2.  Main Rhythm.  Here we have the meat of the rhythm section.  Fender, Dano, and String basses, the Grand Piano, the Drums and Percussion.  As I mentioned, you could have this track all the way down and still hear most everything on it except the piano and string bass.

3.  Rhythm and Color.  The accordions dominate this track.  The Box Guitar and Tack Piano are also captured on this buss, and the 12-strings feature as well.

At this point, the decision would be made to add reverb to select inputs.  There is a small knob at the bottom of each console input that adds reverb and subtracts the un-effected, dry signal. 

In this case, it sounds like the accordions and 12-strings get the big treatment, with subtler reverb on other elements.  The reverbed signal simply follows it's instrument down the same buss and onto tape.

Many of you have asked me about compression on the tracks.  I have no idea if any way used at all, I doubt it.  If it was used, chances are it would be at this point.

So, at this point, the musicians and Brian launch into 21 takes of the song, get a usable take on tape, and that's that.

Chances are Brian mixed the track to mono for reference that night.

The best bet would be if someone like Jerry Cole, Bill Pitman, or even Glen Campbell were to listen to it and tell us what he thought.  Glen wasn't on that session, but did many many sessions with Barney, and
would probably know.  Unfortunately, Carole Kaye listened in 1996 with David Leaf or Mark (or whomever it was that interviewed her for the box set booklet), and gave it her best shot, but wasn't 100% accurate.
This was one session out of possibly many these people played at that day, and it's now 40 years later. 
C-Man

Well, the next time I'm having lunch with one of those guys, I'll play it for 'em! :drumroll

Kudos for a great thread!  Really enjoyed that.

Aeijtzsche, I've probably asked the question a million times in the past, but I don't think I quite understand how reverb from the chamber would be added to the instruments being recorded. I guess this is the impression I'm getting of how it works. Tell me if I'm correct or way off. Is the signal from the microphones outputted to a speaker in the echo chamber (which is miked somewhere in the room, depending on the amount of reverb you want), and the signal from the microphone in the echo chamber then inputted back into the console, and the proportions of wet/dry controlled at the console?

I attempted to capture this song in the studio with my Beach Boys tribute band, All Summer Long, a couple of years ago and I think we came pretty close.

On the REAL version, I think for the intro, they probably used some kind of "mando-guitar" (I know Fender made one back then) for the top part and a regular electric for the second lower part. On my version, I just used my Rickenbacker 360, finger-picked, for both parts. In the part after the bridge, although we did use real accordions (and saxophones), we didn't have anyone who could pull off the "bellow-shakes," so I faked it with mandolins! :D By the way, is the segment where Frank Marocco shows Brian this technique somewhere on the SOT Pet Sounds Sessions or the PS Sessions Box Set?

Feel free to check it out our version and see what you think:

http://www.audiodrome.net/ASL-WouldntItBeNice(Mono).mp3

 :o Amazing!  It makes me think of an old saying, from Jeff Tweedy - "Why...wouldn't you...wanna live...in this world?"  You've no reason to feel despondant about your music making abilities.  Amazing amazing amazing!

Yeah, that's about right.  It's my understanding that at that point, the echo send knob would turn down the dry signal as you turned it up.  So if I turn up the echo send 20%, it would turn down the dry sound to 80% of it's original volume.

No, it must have happned before the tape was rolling.

Your cover is very, very good.

 :o audiodrome, that is one of the best BB-covers I have ever heard!!! Respect. Honestly, RESPECT!!!

This week in music history...from the Musicians' Friend mailing list...

1984, Gold Star Recording Studios where Phil Spector cut most of his monster hits is demolished to make way for a mini-mall that features a Del Taco stand...

C-Man

Regarding the intro to "WIBN"...funny that so many people over the years (including, I think, Tom Petty in an interview) have concluded that a harp was used, while others (such as whoever charted the songs in the "Stack o' Tracks" booklet) deduced that it was an electric piano.  If you just sit down with an electric guitar and play the parts, you can produce somethng really close to the recorded sound (as I did some years back just for research purposes, and as Audiodrome obviously did on his cover version).  The second guitar, the one playing the support role, sounds REALLY "plucky".  Just from playing up high on the neck, you can get that sound.  As for the main part, yes Audiodrome, I think it probably is an electric Mando-guitar, or something very similar.

Good job BTW Audiodrome.  If ever I was to make a biopic movie on The Boys, I would want to lease your version for the soundtrack! 

C-Man

And to get close to Carol's sound...make sure you use a pick, like she did.

C-Man

Yes, there's an online interview with Mark L. somewhere...I think discussing "SMiLE" 2004...and he says that's why they used so little hi-hat in those days, and piled on tambourine instead for the 4-to-the-bar beats...the cymbals in general, including but not limited to hi-hat, would just wash over everything due to leakage.

-Man

Seconded. Amazing!

Cheers,
Alex

<< The Percussion, played by Frankie Capp, would have consisted of what sounds like a tamborine, and a set of Timpani. >>

In addition to tambourine and tympani, Frankie also played the little orchestra bells in the bridge.

C-Man

 :drumroll

 Not quite. The echo send is just another mix buss(es)  that feeds  the chamber (at Goldstar). The mic. in the chamber is amplified and returned to the console and added to the particular tape buss (output) that is feeding a track on the (3 track) tape machine. As you increase the echo send on a given mic the level sent to the chamber increases and more reverb is added to the combination of that mic and others going to the same buss (output). The echo sends are almost always post (after) the main chl fader (certainly that way at Goldstar) so that if you increase the volume of the input, the amont of echo on that input also increases. So when you increase the echo send knob you are only adding echo (reverb) not reducing the direct signal. This btw is how it is still done, although on many later consoles (and on DAWs) you can put the echo sends into pre-fader mode which makes the send level entirely independant of the "dry" fader.

Regarding the intro of WIBN, whatever the instrument it was fed direct into the Goldstar console and the only musician in the tracking room that could hear it was Hal Blaine who needed it to being in the rest of the band. You can hear a discussion about this on the DVD-A and the sessions box where someone is suggesting that Hal do a count off and Larry Levine says he can't because it would be heard over the guitar intro. A bazouki is unlikely on the intro since it is an acoustic instrument, and nothing else plays on the intro but the direct guitar.

Lastly unlike Western Goldstar didn't have any compressors in their recording studio, just in the mastreing room... so no compression would have been used on the session.


Mark

Thanks for your comments, Mark.


I was just basing my understanding of the echo send system based on what I've read from interviews of Larry.  He discussed how when it started, the chamber reverb was "designed" to create a "distant" effect, so the send know was designed to roll off the dry signal proportionately to the wet sound being added.  But he might have been talking about the 50s for all I know.


Neat info.  Do you have any idea how a compressor would have been used on a backing track session at Western, then?  I'd just really like to know if it was ever used for big instrumental sessions at all, and if it was, if they used it for individual instruments or if it was strapped across an output buss.

Any other corrections or wrong info I need to change that you can see, Mark?

I could care less about the boards splitting up as long as we get gold like this thread.

Yeah Aeijtzche - great thread - lots of great info! This is the perfect BB song to dissect - there's so many interesting sounds.

The "mando-guitar thing" got me thinking about the trio of guitars that play those beautiful harmony/counterpoint lines throughout the verses of "You Still Believe In Me" - one or more of those have a very similar sound to the intro of WIBN. Could be the same instrument?

Also thank you very much for the nice response to my version, guys!

So I can't resist - here's another one for you:

http://www.audiodrome.net/ASL-ICanHearMusic.mp3

I apologize for going off from the thread a little here...  :wave

We'll have to start an anatomy thread for "ICHM" now!  This is great stuff.

There is gold, and a multitude of rubies: but the lips of knowledge are a precious jewel.  Proverbs 20:15

Best topic ever. Thanks, aeijtzsche! Your posts in this thread should be turned into a webpage of their own.

At Western they had a compressor across each buss which could be switched in as desired (and it often was) . The console in ST. 3 had  high impedance busses and direct outputs from single chls were not possible, so only the busses could have had compression added. The next generation of console in Studio 2 had a transformer on each chl which allowed a patch between the input module and the three track buss. This may explain why the Studio 3 console was modified to have a fourth buss at some point, but the Studio 2 console (which I've owned for 15 years) never needed the mod and was in fact used for 8 track sessions until 1969 when it was taken out of ST. 2 and retired.

With his permission, that could certainly happen.

You have my permission.


Mark, if you're still following along, when they switched in a compressor across a buss, do you suppose it would be something fairly light?  I'm assuming the compressors were "prototype" 1167s or something similar, and as such only had the preset ratios, 4:1, 8:1, 12:1, and 20:1.  It's so hard to tell without being able to listen to the individual tracks, but I've thought that there might be some 4:1 or even 8:1 on many of the horn tracks?  Otherwise, maybe some 4:1 with fairly generous release values?

"I could care less about the boards splitting up as long as we get gold like this thread."

not to disparage the j's, but i went over to the new ss board a couple of times and didn't care for it.

this thread reminds me a lot of the old ss board circa 2000, where highly informative threads like this were the norm. only *now*, this board is even better. i'm extremely grateful to the principals for adding to the knowledge base and for members like josh who provide accessible distillations such as this thread.

audiodrome-great stuff!!!

Mark, one more question to help clarify my "article":  Do you have any information regarding the D.I. boxes of the time?  Proprietary in-house kind of things, or were there DI boxes on the market?

Edit:  Actually two more questions, the second is:  Do you know anything about the "sidecar" mixer Larry has mentioned that allowed more than the 12-inputs on the board, and how many inputs that added?

The compresors would have been UA 175's which had a fixed 12:1 ratio or the 176 which came a bit later and had a choice of 2, 4,8 or 12:1. Both are tube comps of course. (more likely it was the 176's)

Is this Bill Pittman on the right?

(http://www.bobhowe.com/images/hillbillyheaven_1990.jpg)

Is Ray Pohlman in the far right of this photo, sitting down?

(http://www.utstat.utoronto.ca/mikevans/hroberts/photos/Roberts-Tedesco-Pohlman-Ritz.jpg)

No for the Bill question, yes to the Ray one.  I couldn't find a picture of Bill Pitman online, but if you have the Chuck Granata Pet Sounds book, he's misidentified as Tommy Tedesco in one of the picture sections.

Well, I guess he is in this picture:
(http://www.goldstarrecordingstudios.com/galler1.gif)

He's the fourth player down our left wall, in between Carol Kaye and Tommy Tedseco.

You'll have to maintain a 24 hr vigil on the Blueboard waiting for the main man to turn up!

Yeah.  I bet he'd answer if he saw it, if he could remember.

WOW - jaw drops open, eyes bug out, mind swirls.....

This is incredibe work, H.  Nicely done.

*bump* hey guys just discovered this. what a great thread! i recently visited LA and got terribly lost on Santa Monica Blvd. We ended up stopping in a parking lot and looking at a map only to realize we were very near Hollywood blv/Capital twr, etc. When i got home and did some research i discovered that parking lot was the former site of Gold Star.Needless to say it's spooky that i picked that exact spot to stop and rest. anyways i love reading this stuff about the process. every current producer in LA should be forced to learn this stuff.