The Smiley Smile Message Board

So those two numbskulls should get their sh*t together and realize they're one of the coolest songwriting partnerships in rock & roll and write some more classics like Here Comes The Night.

Not really...

No sh*t.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRU972iKRsQ&NR=1

Somehow I don't see Paul getting together with John again any time soon to write a song for The Beatles' 50th anniversary.

But...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0yYRWnzKow8

Hm.... http://www.billboard.com/news/it-takes-two-10-songwriting-duos-that-rocked-1005325662.story#/features/it-takes-two-10-songwriting-duos-that-rocked-1005325662.story?page=1 (http://www.billboard.com/news/it-takes-two-10-songwriting-duos-that-rocked-1005325662.story#/features/it-takes-two-10-songwriting-duos-that-rocked-1005325662.story?page=1)

I don't particularily care about the Disney album (though it's nice and all), and I'm bored with the Smile thing (though "when" it's finally released it'll be cool) - but this reunion album, which could probably be their last album is the one I'm really crossing my fingers about.  My hope is that they do something classy, age appropriate and excellent.   My fear is that it will be stupid, shlocky and crap. 
They have an opportunity here (and as mentioned, it could be their last opportunity) and I'm rooting for them not to blow it.

I have no fear. Everything Bran & Mike touch turns into gold or a hilarious substitute gold. I Get Around [with my walker].

And also for those who lack respect for Love - may I remind you all that a song needs a hook, a girl/boy thing that everyone can understand. Without that it's all just woo-woo machines and acid alliteration. When I see my baby, when I see my little girl - these are classic lyrics. f*ck Cabinessence, give me A Thing Or Two or Here Comes The Night anyday so I can boogie with my girl.

My hopes, too





For a good reason.

By the general media?  By your average Brian Wilson fan.  Look @ the folks on this board, no respect for Mike's talent. 

God is Love. Mike is Love.  Love Mike. Mike Love.  :serenade

Ever see Mike in his "Last Of The Summer Wine" phase?

(http://www.miamibeachsandcastle.com/images/Mike_Love_Beach_Boys_with_Victor_Leong_Grand_Bahamas.jpg)

The whole reason I like Smile is the "acid alliteration" and woo-woo machines! Over and over the crow cries uncover the cornfield, baby!!

What about those that are boy/boy? Σ(゜д゜;)

I don't get it?

He means those that bat for the home team.

well he's a roller skating child with a ribbon in his hair
he gets my heart a beatin' when i see him there
you know my heart starts smiling when he sings
he's such an angel i bet he's got wings

and we'll make sweet lovin when the sun goes down
we'll even do more when his momma's not around
well oh my oh gosh oh gee he really sends chills inside of me


and the world just got a whole lot creepier  :smokin

Hilarious substitute gold!  :lol
Is that like what I scraped off my shoe this morning?

I get around [with my walker] sounds like the BW concert last night.
All these folks dancing and then instead of passing joints, they were passing oxygen masks.

better than the original

www.youtube.com/watch?v=sC8x4UdSi50

Mike Love has some talent, If you put a gun to my head, I would still refuse
to say he was half of a great team like Lennon/McCartney

I'd say it was more like 90%-10%

But there is something called chemistry, and the remaining Beach Boys
all in a room together, could create a whole greater than the individual
parts.

I don't like Mike Love, everything I have ever read about him. makes him
seem like a bully and nutter and kind of a redneck creep.. HOWEVER
perhaps the Beach Boys could do something good. Vocally Brian Wilson
is a shadow of his former self, and as a producer, I don't know how
engaged he is anymore, or how much he is able to concentrate, but
with Love Jardine and JOhnston in the vocal blend, maybe they could
do some magic, if somebody could write a couple good songs.


I agree with whoever said, it would be their final album together. At 70
years of age, I would hope so. One last hurrah is great, but there comes
a time. To hang em up.

The Beach Boys minus Mike Love, Al "would rather be a dentist" Jardine, Bruce Johnston = THE WILSON BROTHERS BAND.

Like some kind of bizarre Californian-Norwegian garage punk band with Dennis' rambunctious clubbing, Carl's electrifying guitaring, and Brian's funky bass & keyboarding.  :smokin  :thewilsons

And, dare I suggest it, a little Murry on piano and "da doobie da dee dee doos"? We've heard his voice in Be Here and it is EXCELLENT - adds to the youthful blend like the primordial vibration of slowly shifting tectonic plates. Usually a description applied to Sunn O))) but it works for Murry too.

Just think, we coulda had Smile. :p

Haaaa. Drawing a comparison between Sun O))) and Murry. You are a good ghost.

I don't think it's really all that arguable against Mike being 50%/Mccartney to Lennon in regards to The Beach Boys!

(OK, maybe more like 40%)

Sure, people will deny it till the end of time. Lots of people just don't like Myke, and that's their right, but when you stand back and take a look at just WHAT exactly the Beach Boys are: you gotta drop your trousers for the guy (metaphorically, oldsurferdude! Don't get overheated)

It's simple.

The Beach Boys template from day one was Mike's nasal punk-ass leads alternating with Brian's more emotive vocals: the other guys filling out the middle: some Chuck Berry/surf guitar and a rockin beat with a whole lot of Mike lyrics.

THAT IS THE BEACH BOYS.

Carl/Al/Dennis stepped up to more or less fill in for Brian in alternating degrees, but that initial template never really changed.

Mike also had very sweet emotive vocals like the bridge on Wouldn't It Be Nice. Perhaps sweeter than Brian's at times. Mike could reach appropriate emotional depths in his singing at times that are endlessly satisfying to hear.

Ungh, no it's not. They were obviously so much more than that. That is one tiny fraction of who they were. That is how they started when they were kids. And it's that reduction of them that continues to be propagated by the media and the clueless masses, thus, embedding that bogus image of them in the pop culture consciousness, which completely contributes to the majority of people not taking them seriously, treating them as lightweight, being confused by one's obsession with them, and ultimately disregarding them (except for Pet Sounds! Pet Sounds, Pet Sounds, Pet Sounds! Pet Sounds is COOL! Because cool people have validated it. Yeah!) 

Yeah, I would have loved if he sang more songs in that voice -- "All I Wanna Do", "Big Sur" (either version but particularly the 4/4 one), "Airplane", and "All This Is That" are all that come to mind immediately -- since it was really very good. Alas.

I'm talking about the BASIC template or DNA of what they are! The basic mechanics!

Of course I know they were so much more than their basic building blocks. My favorite album is Holland, so c'mon!

If anyone chooses to dismiss them because they can't take a deeper look into their "fun in the sun" hits than what's on the surface (which is still pretty awesome)  then they are idiots.

Bringing attention to the basic framework of a building is not an instant insult to it's interior decoration!

It's as much a reduction of these basic building blocks to dismiss my opinion offhand as a reduction.

...not to mention Meant for you. He still has that quality in some of his new solo songs that have unearthed

I know you know! Which is why i thought it was weird you'd say THAT IS THE BEACH BOYS. As much as it may have seemed so, i wasn't telling YOU all that, i was just saying .... i don't know what i was saying. I was just stating the obvious. Are we in a parallel universe right now? What if aliens invade earth on November 1st in gigantic spacecrafts and the planet splits in two?

when that happens, Mike Love will rise to the heavens with a giant jug of apple juice and oldsurferdude will be the first to be swept up into his arms for the Love rapture!

apple juice was the cover story man. it was urine. it's always been urine.

but who's urine???

Denny sneaked his urine into the jug which previously contained apple juice, obviously!

I'm assuming Ghost is just joking around here, but it really doesn't surprise me that Brian Wilson and Mike Love aren't considered a significant songwriting duo.  They were decent, but the problem is BW had a number of collaborators he worked with back in the day (Roger Christian, Tony Asher, Van Dyke Parks, etc.).  Had he written *all* the hits only with Mike Love, maybe Billboard might have included them on the list.

I'm not joking around at all - Here Comes The Night is a great song. Best track on Wild Honey for me.

Love/Wilson is nothing like Lennon/McCartney.

Lennon and McCartney were excellent singers, songwriters, lyricists and musicians in their own right.

Wilson, an excellent singer, songwriter, musician and producer.

Love, a good eye for all things commercial, a mediocre lyricist, good singer, no creative vision and damn lucky he's related to Brian.

Brian is lucky he's related to Mike. If it were up to Brian the Beach Boys would've expired before 1970 most likely. Without Mike it's doubtful Brian would be a wealthy man still.

Thank you for telling the truth. You will be unanimously and instantly hated from this point on, but forge on, sir! :rock :rock :rock :h5 :h5 :woot :woot :woot :thumbsup :thumbsup :thumbsup :happydance :happydance :happydance

Wanna expand on that bit of absurd logic? :thud

That's not necessarily a bad thing. The Beach Boys would be hailed far better by critics had they shut off the valve after Sunflower. Sure they wouldn't have had the popular revival of the early to mid 70s, but they also wouldn't be regarded as an oldies band either.

in 1979 there was an eclipse of the sun. my brain was flooded with melatonin, and i said i. want to know where the forest forms faunas fawn fumbling from forever .

True, that's one of the (many) reasons why The Beatles are so much more revered as a group relative to The Beach Boys - they knew when to stop!  They never had a chance to make crappy albums and become a lame nostalgia act.

They still made crappy albums, just not together.

Perhaps, but once they closed the book on The Beatles, that body of work could never be tarnished, no matter what they did on their own later.  Even their relatively weaker work was still pretty damn good by anyone's standards.  If The Beach Boys had stopped after Sunflower or Surf's Up, their overall body of work would be held in much higher regard.

I would have been wholly pleased if they had released nothing after Love You, even if it means they'd have had to have released 15 Big Ones already. Then again, I already do feel that way as I've still never listened to a full post-1977 album...

i get the beatles trust me in the teens i was rolling to that sound but around 17-18 got into the beach boys more prefered the real deal eccentricity not the public sh*t john & yoko do etc. brian huffing nitrous from reddi whip cans before recording the tag to wind chimes for smiley. just little things i imagine loosely based on reality. the beatles feel like a gimmick. the beach boys were a real set of people perhaps playingh a gimmick for a while but became a disencarnate free roaming abstract entity. in one sense you can hear Till I Die in Surfer Girl but from the day of Surfer Girl you would not anticipate something as shatteringly good as Till I Die in every aspect of existence even down to its story of origin. there's nothing comparable to that story for me in all music history. the thought of BRIAN WILSON suicidal - this man we now know as a gentle aging great, thinking of driving off cliffs, etc. how iconic that might have been - reclusive genius of the beach boys drives rolls off cliff in apparent suicide after releasing a song entitled "till i die". brian wilson was the first kurt cobain.

To answer OSD's question: I happen to love (Love) everything the Beach Boys have ever done. I can 't claim to LOVE Summer In Paradise, of course, but I certainly do like it!

I love MIU! I love LA album, I LOVE Love You. I love Keeping The Summer Alive. I love 15 Big Ones! So, for me, the Beach Boys never did anything bad (other than Problem Child). So, from my point of view, I have nothing but artistic admiration and respect for Dr. Love.... I'm not saying my opinion is right or to be defended, I'm just pointing out that such creatures as myself truly do exist, therefore the Dominic Priore version of The Beach Boys story does not ring true for everyone.

OSD, let me ask you: your hatred for Michale E. Love being what it is: what goes through your mind when you listen to something like All I Wanna Do or Meant For You?

KILL KILL KILL KILL KILL KILL KILL KILL KILL KILL KILL KILL KILL KILL ?

Well I always wished they packed it in after Murry died.

You can like someone's work, or their guided contribution to it, no matter how minor, without actually liking (or loving!) the person.

Its never been nor have I ever said hate when referring to the mykeluhv machine. It is better categorized as a complete disdain for what he stands for in the band and his general slant toward Brian and his music. I wouldn't have minded if he had just gone away in let's say 1965 or so. AIWD is a great BW song mostly because of his production talents. Frankly, MFY , is very short-any one of them could have sung it.

Ten seconds of music is like an hour man. MykLuhv sings for Eternity. Whennnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn.

They had and did.

seriously- some beatles albums are unlistenably boring. even the earliest beach boys stuff seems to have something that is worth absorbing your attention in even if it's not "child is father of the man" greatness yet. but the beatles... even pepper is a boring old album to hear now. it sounds like a novelty toy manufactured by george martin - the beatles as dolls for children- press the button and john plays Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds. it's all the rage for the hip hipiies .

for example there is some similarity in the feel of "when i'm 64" and some smile music - but the beatles got a corny english thing going and the boys and wrecking crew got a postmodern sort of jacques tati sound.

This made me LOL. True story.

I don't think they released anything that is just out and out crappy without any chance of any virtue being argued.

And thanks, OSD, that was a very well put/well reasoned response to the Lovemachine dilemma

Clever marketing. Abbey Road's no better than Surf's Up yet the first is well known to millions and the second just to thousands. We all know where it's at though - Brian's death/rebirth trilogy on Surf's Up is worth the Beatles entire career.

(http://i53.tinypic.com/2zxvad4.jpg)

Mike Love loves India so much he wears pita bread on his head as a hat.

The Beatles were consistent. They have basically the best good-to-sh*t ratio in pop music history.

Everybody here loves the Beach Boys, but if we were being rational, we could pick apart every album, including Surf's Up.

Personally, I love side two of Abbey Road, even if it is just a bunch of 1:30 snippets stitched together. They (The Beatles & George) made it work.

I think he wears pita bread in other places as well

Beatles albums can be picked apart as well...... easily.

No one has the balls!

I can pick them apart.

The Beatles are overrated by many.

Maybe we should do it!

Let's put some balance back into the universe and quit picking apart/reassembling our own versions of Sunflower!!!!

I'm just trying to put out The Beatles fire that's been burning forever. Brian Wilson has said far more intelligent, insightful things than John Lennon ever did - he's far more iconic as a personality and existence to me.

Hey, I've even said that I think Brian's the most talented guy in pop music history. Paul McCartney is up there too, but I give Brian the edge because of his ear. Brian and Paul are so alike in many ways it's pretty wild.

The problem with the Beach Boys is that Brian had no John Lennon to pick up the slack. As prolific as Brian was at creating great material, he couldn't satiate Capitol's appetite when it came to releasing albums. If the Beach Boys had been able to release one album every two or three years, they would have had nothing but five star records through the late 60s based on Brian's writing alone. But Pet Sounds was their tenth in five years. That's a lot of work for anybody, even someone like Brian.

That's true. I try not to think "what if" though and just appreciate "what was". Otherwise I'm left imagining those damn Wilson Brothers records again with guest vocalists Charles Manson & Family.

What we got was enough.  :)

I was coming at it from a critical angle in my last post.

This is absolutely true, but Mike is THE guy (when it comes to Brian's collaborators) by virtue of not only co-writing the most stuff with Brian but of also ...... being in the band..... and going out and singing so many of these great songs. Do the math and Brian/Mike really were THE team but there was a scattering of other collaborators (some of them co-writing amazing stuff, of course

They are. That is not to say they weren't great. As songwriters they were really fantastic. But in many cases they couldn't do their own songs justice as good as other performaers.
And their terrible musicianship on their instruments made some of the early stuff unlistenable (their version of Roll Over Beethoven for example). The early albums have many nice songs but not the timelessnes and sophistication that can be found in the early Beach Boys albums (starting with Surfer Girl)

I think you're on to something here. 8)

:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

Are you saying the Beatles were worse on their instruments than the Beach Boys were on theirs in the early 60s?  I'd give the edge to the Beatles as far as debut albums, at the very least.

Agreed. If you had to compare the Beatles and the Beach Boys as musicians c. 1963 I am afraid it would be no contest at all. Easy win for the Fab Four. Brian music was more complex but damnif the Beatles music wasn't more singable to the average joe which is why The Beatles will always be on top of most people's lists.

"Pita-Depends"

Haven't said anything about the Beach Boys' handling of their instruments. But the Beatles were terrible and only got better later.
The Beach Boys had much more complex chords and voicings. I couldn't say at what point the Beatles were far enough to write something as sophisticated as Surfer Girl (the song) or In My Room.
And the Beatles' early songs mostly just sound dated today. They are locked in their time. That would change with later albums but the Beach Boys had achieved a timeless sound much earlier (which is not to say that this goes for each and everyone of their songs).




Well, that's not the point. Everyone has their favorite and that's good. I love the Beatles myself. But this was about the Beatles being overrated.

I like the Beatles but they are over rated. Funny for any flaws I like all their pre Pepper albums very much. I think they tried to make every song the best it could be. Pepper is cool for what it is but some of it is too self conscious. Magical was a crap film but the music was pretty cool. White Album two thirds good, a third is self indulgent. Abbey Road is kind of sterile to me. Some good moments (John's stuff was great) but overall the fun isn't there to me. I don't like the sound really. Let It Be has some bad Spector overdubs but I do like those songs a lot.

When did The Beatles get good enough to write something on par with Surfer Girl or In My Room? I've yet to hear it...

The average age of the Beatles in 1963 was about 22, while the Beach Boys was 19. When talking of those who actually played instruments, the Beatles were still at 22 because they all played, but the Beach Boys average age drops to 18 because Mike didn't play anything. The youngest Beatle was Paul at 20 while the Beach Boys had David and Carl at 15 and 17 and even Dennis was 19. Both John and Ringo were 23 compared to Brian at 21.

I'd hope the Beatles would have been comparatively a bit more proficient at instrumentation being that they were quite a bit older on average.

All I know is Ringo's drumming on those early albums IS WHERE IT'S AT!

But wait, Lennon wrote a song about Mike on his first solo album:

Love is real , real is Love
Love is feeling , feeling Love
Love is wanting to be Loved
Love is touch, touch is Love
Love is reaching, reaching Love
Love is asking to be Loved
Love is you
You and me
Love is knowing
we can be
Love is free, free is Love
Love is living, living Love
Love is needed to be Loved


...and later in his career he would write another tribute to Mike that the Beatles just HAD to record for their "reunion":

All my little plans and schemes
Lost like some forgotten dream
Seems like all I really was doing
Was waiting for you
Just like little girls and boys
Playing with their little toys
Seems like all they really were doing
Was waiting for you
Don't need to be alone
No need to be alone
It's real LOVE
It's real, yes it's real LOVE...

:lol

Much better then Pete's. Listen to his Love Me Do and you can see why they canned him. He really just wasn't good enough.

Definitely. Paul's bass playing then did it for me later (along with Ringo's drumming).

That's a fair point, but was Carl a better guitar player at 22 than George at 22? Brian better than Paul (two days apart)? Dennis better than Ringo?

I'm afraid that overall, the Beatles were just more gifted musicians. Nothing to be ashamed about. McCartney's one of the five greatest bass players ever and Ringo's probably the most influential rock drummer ever.

I think Carl was better than George on guitar. Likewise Dennis > Ringo has more of an energy in his playing. Also Brian > Paul on piano and bass. Let's not forget where Paul learned a lot of his bass tricks...

If Dennis would have played on all the records and stayed back on drums 24/7, he'd probably be considered one of the top guys, but we all know how the story went. Plus, it doesn't matter. Dennis was a singer/songwriter multi-instrumentalist and that's what we love him for.

As for Ringo: his super solid washing high-hat, heavy kick style of the early records is the most influential drumming of all-time!

100% agreed about them being overrated,except I actually highly prefer the post-Pepper work. But then again, I'm not that crazy about rock pre-1966 anyway.

Beatles are crazy overrated..

Beach Boys any day

It's very true that Paul learned a lot about the use of the bass line in songwriting and arranging from Brian. He's been quoted many times as saying that "Pet Sounds" taught him that you don't always have to play the root note. But I don't think Brian had quite the skills that Paul did on the actual bass guitar. Now, Brian's left-hand bass playing on the piano is quite another thing altogether...

Yes, The Beatles are overrated.

Yes The Beach Boys are underrated.

Somewhere in the middle I think is the where the truth lies for both groups.

Probably so.
That's funny Billy. I love 1951-65 in all sorts of music. After the early seventies I lose interest, and most everything done in the last 30 years doesn't do it for me.

I don't know man, Brian gets pretty fly on songs like I Get Around live. It's hard to play bass and sing - especially Wilson songs! He played Surfer Girl and sang like it was nothing. Barely even looking at what he was playing. I've never seen or heard proof but I'm pretty sure Brian can play guitar as well.

It's been said that he could pick up just about any instrument and play (competently, no less), at least back in the 60's.  One of my favorite Desper stories is of a time when he saw Brian knock out a drum part out of nowhere - "Hal Blaine at his best" was the exact wording he used.  So I would imagine that guitar was in his arsenal too, at least on a fundamental level.

That's a great story. Brian is a total mystery. I mean - does anyone really understand him? How about crawling into bed with Rocky & Marilyn? This guy is so CONFOUNDING.

Reading this thread and the claims that The Beatles were overrated reminds me of the time when an ex-girlfriend's roommate said of Alfred Hitchcock, "He tried." It was infuriating then and it's infuriating now. But have fun in make-believe land!

Perfectly said.

The beatles are easily the most overrated music of all time in the entire world.

I love the Beatles but they simply aren't my favorite group. In the top ten sure, but best ever? Not in my eyes. Why is that a problem?

Agreed. And this is coming from a relative Beatles fan. They are MEGA overrated. Anyone who says they are the best band of all time needs to listen to more bands!! (IMO).
Brian was the best part of two years ahead of them in progressing from the basic guitars, bass, drums sound. It's also worth noting that for all the 'they didn't play on their records' accusations they the BB's have endured throughout the years, it goes relatively unnoticed that the Fabs used a mountain of session musicians once they started stretching out musically.
As for Sgt. Pepper, I've said it before and will repeat it here - mostly weak songs dressed up in kitchen sink production. Some of side two is pretty good but much of side one ranges form average to awful.
And on a vocal ability level the 'Boys run circles around the Fabs.

I just read this thread and it reminds me of all the time I spent living in the deep South US. They were still fighting the civil war in their minds.

Regardless of whichever side you take, the Beatles won the war. And the Yankees kicked the Rebels asses.

Game over, man!

And that is the last time I will ever compare the two groups. Whatever "competition" they had occurred 40+ years ago. Why the f*** are people still hung up about it? And this includes Brian who is still spooked by "Let It Be"?  ???

Let's all just let it be and quit comparing.

 :lol :lol :lol

Really I find the mentality that a person needs to tear another band down to prove what they like is better kind of funny. I like them both. Some days I like The Beatles more. Others I like the Beach Boys. It's not really an Us vs. Them issue.

It's simply a fact that if you like the Beatles you might be a psychopath. Why? Charles Manson liked the Beatles.

lol ghost. A case could be made that Brian went insane because he liked the Beatles a bit too much too.

Ooooops. My favourite Beatles album by far is The White Album. Should I seek help or go start a cult in the desert?

Hahahahhahahahaa. Perfect execution - has had you hung up for years!

It's not. You can like whoever you want.

Calling them overrated though is like calling Shakespeare overrated and it has virtually the same effect.

But what about the Bee Gees or the Bay City Rollers???

I think from now on I will only listen and obsess to the music of Carl Stalling (Looney Tunes).

Outside of some screaming 12 year old girl from 1974, have you ever heard of anyone refer to the Bay City Rollers as the greatest group of all time?