The Smiley Smile Message Board

This holds up like nothing else since Love You.  I can't imagine this being topped.  Even Brian's narratives hold up to repeated listenings.  This was the Home Run for the Brian Wilson Band.  Even the "lesser" cuts grow on repeated listenings. 

I'll certainly groove on what is to come this year or next but LOS will stand as the last great.  And I suspect it will grow in recognition and appreciation.

This is certainly the masterpiece of the Brian Wilson Band.

I respectfully welcome your comments.

Nah

Que?

The production of the Gershwin album was just as good. Although, not original music.

I think Brian's vocals on these two albums are the best of his solo albums.

You can't top Love You

I don't think he said it did top Love You.

I think that most of us here can agree that Love You tops 15 Big Ones. But if you don't, can you tell us all why?

It doesn't hold up anywhere near as well as Love You!

I said "This holds up like nothing since Love You". .   Meaning;    Best since not necessarily better.

What a great album...

"Can't Wait Too Long"
"Midnight’s Another Day"
"That Lucky Old Sun (Reprise)"
"Going Home"
"Southern California"

What an ending..

Also, Oh Mi Amor is just brilliant, should of been on the album

Right

BW '88 is better than TLoS, though.

Yep.

Well Donald brother dearest I have placed my faith in you and chosen That Lucky Old Sun for the stoned album of the evening. My previous thoughts have always been: That Sucky Old Sun, as they sing in the first song. Just kidding, there's some cool songs on this album. It's almost bizarre. Brian is this old man really but TLOS is a youthful sounding recording. And no one in his band are particularly youthful anymore either. Morning Beat is overlooked but it has a very cool groove. There's a lot of parts to all these songs. I guess that was always my major impression of That Lucky Old Sun - it felt very 'complete' with lots of new Brian Wilson interesting musical things like the bridge to Morning Beat. The 60s Brian is there, but also the 70s, 80s, 90s, and 00s - dig? So it bears resemblance yet is not the same at all. The album sound quality is a little too loud for my tastes. Seems like it would play better if it was not pushed so loud. And yes Donald, I agree, that the interludes and narratives do hold up over time in a strange typically Beach Boys goofy way. Good Kind Of Love became a favorite of mine as soon as I heard it. I mean, when the keyboards come in, it just makes you adore Brian. I mean, whether he played that part or not - it's stylistically BW. It's a celebration of that lucky old son, Brian Wilson.

Forever She'll Be My Jewish Girl is a great song. If Brian did this in 1971 and it was unreleased you guys would be shitting yourself daily over it on this board. The bassline reminds me of Sloop John B how Brian played it live in 1976 on television. And I love his voice on it too. He sounds great. He has a kind of weird drawl sometimes, but mostly his voice is still very sweet. He still has Brian Wilson purity in his entire mode of being. I usually think of this song as being about Marilyn. I mean I guess it has other meanings. But I like to romanticize and in my mind Brian misses all those nights laying in bed with Marilyn. That leaves a deep impression on the mind. He told Melinda it was for her, of course. Like any wise husband [slave].

Can we all agree that Brian's new music is more substantial than Paul Mccartney's? No offense to Paul since I know he reads this board but Brian's music lasts a long time in the brain. Paul's seems to pass right by me. Live Let Live. Sounds like some kind of ordinary song- but then Brian is whirling you through Wonderland in chord changes. We marvel over This Whole World but not these songs? They are just as cool. Brian has a strong Van Dyke Park element going on here. Did they collaborate on this album? Besides the narratives? I thought the songs were Brian (music/melodies) and scott bennet (words) -- is this correct?

My thoughts:

When I first heard Brian sing "I Wanna Be Around," I thought it was PERFECT for his voice, and he sounded great on it.

And I also thought the suite style was exactly the kind of stuff he should produce.

That Lucky Old Sun has both....the title track, albeit, is the only one with the "crooner"/gospel voice, but there were suites...

And one thing I absolutely love about BWRG (actually one of my favorite Brian albums -- tied for second, actually, with TLOS after Smile) is that there's plenty of that -- "Summertime," "I Loves You, Porgy," "It Ain't Necessarily So," "'Swonderful"....Brian sounds great on that, and he sounded even better in concert on those tunes...

TLOS is probably the last great Brian album...so far. You never know what else he has up his sleeve.

I could do without the narratives, but otherwise I think this is the second-best original solo work Brian has done, behind BW88.  Easily the best involving his band.  If I'm in need of a "go-to" Brian Wilson album, it's almost always this is BW88.  Ghost you hit the nail on the head - it's a youthful recording sung by a pretty old dude, and he pulls it off wonderfully.  At the same time though, the more introspective cuts ("Midnight's Another Day" and "Southern California" specifically) suit his current voice so well, and that makes them even more stunning to hear.

As much as I love it, I almost wish they'd left off "Can't Wait Too Long."  It doesn't fit with the rest of the album - it's almost like you're momentarily sucked into a time capsule, and amongst Brian's new compositions, you go back in time and get a glimpse of just how gifted this guy really was.  Come to think of it, maybe that was the idea.

I agree that That Lucky Old Sun could have done without the narratives.  They were borderline-ridiculous.  And I was hoping for more with "Can't Wait Too Long".  It seemed more like a tease more than anything else.  But this is still a pretty good album.  Brian Wilson, his debut solo album, is good too but the production hasn't aged well.  "Rio Grande" is still pretty impressive though.

I guess I still need to buy this album, I have been distracted by the SMiLE sessions hoopla.

You Sold Me! I will own LOS manana!

Thank You!

Adrian

It's definitely worth owning, a very good album. But there are a few  things that limit my enjoyment
- Scott B's clunky lyrics. "if there's a roll in your heart and a rock in your soul...". Come back mike love all is forgiven. Good kind of love is fantastic for the bw lyrics
- the theme, although in some ways holds it together, I think distorts some of the songs. Did oxygen to the brain have to be about being 'ready set in california'? Feels a bit forced
- it's so over produced. Th schmaltzy orchestral overdubs, feels at times as if youre listening to the soundtrack of the muppet Christmas Carol

Still, a v fine latter day bw effort, for all it's faults

BWRG is the most mature, best-produced BW solo album, and also contains the best songs overall.

TLOS has some good moments, but it's too plastic for my liking. And there are some awful moments too.

A very good album, but I still think "Brian Wilson" is his best solo album. Walk walk walk - I keep on walkin the line - dudududuudu

In my opinion, Brian Wilson should be remembered for three major works. Pet Sounds, SMiLE, and That Lucky Old Sun.

I enjoyed your post, but can't agree with your last point. I used to think latter day brian had more going on than Paul but a cursory listen to Chaos & Creation proves Paul is far more in touch with his younger self than Brian imo.

Brian can still do it, and knock out great tunes on a par with possibly his 88 material. I think Midnight's Another day, Southern California, Message Man (best thing Brian has done in 20 years), Christmassey & Nothing But Love all show signs of his brilliance but I think he needs  a lot of help to get this stuff out there, and ultimately I think Paul is consistently better these days.

I like TLOS but there are too many songs that I have to make an effort to like, and that seem to lack the soul, and the heart melting or uplifting moments of Brian's best stuff. Side 2 is pretty cool though.

The narratives have grown a lot for me, and VDP's lyrics are as sharp as ever. The weakest point of the album are Scott's lyrics and I always try to ignore them and concentrate on the good production and the great melodies instead. But in some cases (Forever She'll Be My Surfer Girl, that Mexican song) it doesn't work and I'll skip those.

At one point I should write a review only about the narratives. They are musically very interesting and more subtle than almost everything else on the album. I love Midnight's Another Day, Morning Beat, Oxygen To The Brain, Going Home and Southern California minus the lyrics. Overall it rivals BWPS and BW'88 as his best effort since Love You.

My ranking of BW solo albums:
1. BWPS
2. BW'88
3. TLOS
[huge gap]
4. Sweet Insanity
5. Wilson-Paley recordings
[gap]
6. BWRG
7. GIOMH
8. WIRWFC
9. IJWMFTT
[gap]
10. Imagination

I'd say that the Gershwin album was great as well...but if you're just counting original material, I'll agree with you. TLOS is a great album, even though it was ignored by the general public and the Grammy people. Maybe when Brian is gone, people will discover his solo stuff and more obscure BB songs, but for now, we know there are many hidden gems to enjoy. You could easily create a "best of Brian" solo compilation and it would be filled with top-notch, don't-miss songs.

 I just hope he has some more bursts of creativity, whether he chooses to make more albums or not. He sounded almost sad in that Canadian TV interview when he admitted his dry spell has lasted for 5 years.

You're on the money with your favourites from the album as they're the exact same ones that stand out for me too. I'd add the bonus cuts Message Man and Just Like Me & You too. Such a shame some of the weaker cuts weren't ditched in favour of those two. They feel much more quirky Brian to me and would've made for a far stronger album.

I like the narratives - somehow, no matter how many times you play then, it still sounds like Brian saw them about five minutes before Take 1.

As for my ranking of the solo albums, two qualifications: 1, no unreleased stuff... and two BWPS doesn't count.

So...

1 - TLOS
2 - BW88
3 - BWRG
4 - OCA
5 - Imagination
6 - IJWMFTT
7 - WIRWFC



























8 - GIOMH

Just to jump in on the list-making fun:

1) BW88 - despite the dated production, it's got the best writing of any Brian solo album, and great vocals too
2) TLOS - for reasons stated above
3) Imagination - the vocals almost make up for awful production, much like BW88
4) OCA - this one has grown on me over the years
5) WIRWFC - I like this one more than a lot of others here, great arrangements and, at that point, some of Brian's best solo vocals
6) BWRG - liked it a lot at first, now a bit "meh" but the originals are great
7) IJWMFTT - Brian sounds weird and the choice of backing vocalists is...odd
8) GIOMH - what else can be said?

Last great record Brian Wilson made was his last use of David Mark's. What's with all this Pet Sounds sh*t? Where's the surf guitar?

No not at all. I quote the great Bob Dylan: "I'm in awe of McCartney. He can do it all and he's never let up. He's got the gift for melody, he's got the rhythm. He can play any instrument. "And he can sing the ballad as good as anybody. I mean, I just wish he'd quit!"

Wilson maybe our reigning king but to me McCartney, all his canon even modern era Macca, will always be royalty!

Thanks again for recommendation,

Today I'm a LOS

Adrian

"A little bit o' lovin' and a kissin' and a huggin', that's why they fell in love." Yup....I guess that's from the "Well, oh my, oh gosh, oh gee" school of songwriting. :)

I don't have a problem with Scott's lyrics, although a lot of them do sound as if he had just taken a songwriting class and was trying to use what he learned from it. Thing is, he's not by any means inexperienced creating his own material....I'm guessing it's that he was a noob serving as Brian's lyrical secretary...


Totally agreed on the "forced" part. Judging by the lyrics and structure of the song, I'm willing to bet that this song dates back to the '80s during the second Landy period. Lyrically it goes along with a lot of Sweet Insanity and the Usher sessions, like "Just Say No." Add some lyrical modifications that basically say, "Oh yeah, let's not forget this is about California."


Heh...I never thought of it as being overproduced, but I know what you mean. I have a friend who bought the album and first listened to it with a coworker (just put it on where he works, didn't say who or what the album was), whose musical taste he trusts. He said his coworker's response after hearing TLOS was that she thought it was a cast recording from a musical. I can totally see that...

Paul is a pretender. I don't trust Paul McCartney, if that is his real name.

I can definitely say I wouldn't have been introduced to Brian Wilson if it wasn't for Paul McCartney and his unbridled enthusiastic  love of BW.

Thank You, Macca!

Adrian

Paul died in a car accident in Nov of 1966. The guy you all are talking about is Billy Shears.

Paul Mertens' orchestrations sound very "schooled"--from the brain instead of from the heart--and Brian's best stuff has Brian's arrangements, which are the opposite-- done by instinct. I remember the interview with Scott where he said that the best chord in Midnight's Another Day came from Brian, who just tossed it off--and no one else had thought of that chord because it was so off the wall. That's greatness. Scott's songwriting is more formulaic, and so is Paul's orchestration. But I still love TLOS.

I guess I just hear Brian as being on another musical plane than Paul. He's cool I guess in what he does and has done, I like a lot of it and who he seems to be or presents himself as to the world's beloved........ but Brian is like Bach to me, even in what appear to be his most childishlike savant moments. Paul is no Mozart just a good tunesmith. Even Paul would admit this in private that Brian is in a league of his own beyond the rest. Take Paul's first solo album for example. Play it back to back with Wild Honey.

As for Sgt. Pepper / Smile, the former came out so everyone knows it and with its crisp sound it wowed a lot of people. I just don't think the songs hold up at all. It's a novelty record. It's not substantial. It's like an advertisement for George Martin's dick. Here it is, come and suck it. This is how good I will make you sound - just listen to these Liverpool nobodies. Smile is different. It's not a novelty record at all even though it is acidly enlightend self-aware and views life as novel. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UUE910mUmhc&feature=related Here is all the proof we need. It's instrumental and it's already beat Pepper to a pulp. There are substantial Ideas at work here, at play in the sound pictures forming. Brian was a painter and the Wrecking Crew et al were his colors.

Brian Wilson was George Martin & Paul McCartney, and better than both, alone. He had a lot of helpers - musicians and engineers etc but none of them were directing the sound, were they? Brian was conducting his orchestra, expertly crafting his painting like a god setting in motion each musician. And Brian said, Let there be two accordians! And lo, there was two accordians playing in psychedelic harmony.

I'll go for BW88 first.

Why wasn't "Just Like Me And You" on this album? It's better than the songs on that album. Who's gonna tell me the details on this track? I find it very interesting. There's something very, very Brian about it. It's the chord changes - they're so spacey.

Yes, I too was very disappointed by Imagination, after a 10 year wait for new material.

I prefer the TLOS demos to the finished album...Love You-esque (minus the Moogs) in some places.

Well, technically his real name is James McCartney.  ;)

But on the subject if TLOS, I love the songs, but am not a great fan of the production of that album, with the possible exception of "Midnight's Another Day".

Just to add my 2 cents:


1)  TLOS
2)  BW88
3)  Imagination
4)  BWRG
5)  WIRWFC
6)  IJWMFTT
7)  OCA
8)  GIOMH

TLOS is by far the most poorly recorded and mastered album I have in my collection. It's a shame that Brian's best work since the 1960's was so badly mastered.

Yeah it's greater than about 50% of TLOS - great shame it wasn't on there. You should check out Message Man if you haven't heard it. It's incredible!

As far as being all time favorite albums there is nothing Brian has done since Holland that would be on my list. That said TLOS is my clear favorite Brian solo LP and that includes BWPS. As for mixing problems buy the vinyl it's clear as a bell. My list not counting unreleased from best to worst
TLOS 4/5
BWPS 4/5
BW 3/5
WIRWFC 3/5
BWRG 3/5
Roxy 3/5
GIOMH 2 1/2/5
I Just Wasn't Made 2 1/2/5
PSL 2 1/2/5
Imagination 2/5
OCA 0/5

Just for the hell of it here are my favorite all time releases not counting boots or comps.
Surfin USA
Shut Down 2
All Summer Long
Today
Summer Days
Pet Sounds
Wild Honey
Friends
20/20
Sunflower
Surf's Up
So Tough
Holland
Spring
POB
With records like these Brian's and the band's (bar Dennis) post 1974 work must take a real back seat.

Yep I am in agreement (though he should be remembered for more).

I see Pet Sounds, SMiLE and TLOS as a trilogy. They are all albums about feelings, atmospheres, emotions...at different points in a man's life. There are common threads throughout them.

The only thing spoiling TLOS is the godawful mastering which I am 100% certain Brian had nothing to do with. That has been discussed on this board as nauseum.

Ain't no way in hell TLOS is in the top three of Brian Wilson works.

I'm not a huge TLOS fan.  It has some very pleasant moments but these are offset by some serious contrivances that make it hard to listen to all the way through.  I listen to it in secret...and that's a shame.

And now an off-topic delight from ghost regarding 'Sgt. Pepper':  "It's like an advertisement for George Martin's dick. Here it is, come and suck it."

Perfect.

To me the Beatle that competed with Brian the most was John. Especially on The Plastic Ono band.

Mine

1) TLOS
2) BWRG
3) WIRWFC
4) BW 88
5) Imagination
6) GIOMH

Shouldn't we wait until the d00d croaks before we go proclaiming it to be his last great record?

TLOS really has its moments, especially "Good Kind of Love", the title track and "Morning Beat". Not particularly fond of the overall concept.
Big fan of some of the bonus tracks, however, especially "I'm Into Something Good", which almost sounds like it came straight from the 15BO sessions.

My personal favourite from his solo catalogue is BW88, mostly because it's very ambitious and it has lots of that trademark BB-era brilliance to offer, despite some obvious flaws. There are elements of Love You (synth-heavy production, "Little Children", "Walkin' the Line"), Pet Sounds and Smile throughout and I love the way it holds together as an album experience despite not being a concept record, which is very cool I think. Also, the music doesn't sound like someone was desperately trying to recreate the classic Beach Boys sound circa 1965 - yet. It's a very good album in its own right.

BWRG is very pleasant to the ears and I love listening to it in the late evening hours. Particularly fond of "Nothing But Love", whereas I'm not the world's biggest fan of "The Like in I Love You".

I just listened to BWRG for the first time and it's definitely a big improvement from TLoS. But... both of these albums sound sooo dated. I feel like I'm listening to some lame Disney album than a Brian Wilson record.

It would be a tragedy for BW88 to be his last great album of new material. All he really has to do is record something "edgy" to supersede it! Edgy is not doing another Disney album. Or yet another Americana one. But there's no way he has it in him... I would love to be surprised, though.

I must admit, I had not expected Brian ever again to make an album as good as TLOS turned out to be. It was a really nice surprise. "Midnight's another day" moves me as much as his best 1960s works. This thread prompted me to listen to BW88 again for the first time in a decade or so. Though I found Brian's vocal performance better than I remembered, the whole record still sounds cold to me. Maybe Brian should rerecord it with his band.

Today, I listened to the Paley sessions again and found the music as good as TLOS. If I imagine the BBs on all of those tracks' vocals it sounds even better. Why was it again those sessions weren't turned into an album?

Brian didn't produce BW88, did he?  I always chalked that up to the 'cold' sound of it, I agree it doesn't sound as warm as his other stuff.  It's got the same sterilized sound that the "sweet insanity!" stuff does.

I think the Paley sessions are some of Brian's best stuff, period.  It's a prototype for Pleasure Island.  I mean, what rocks harder than Chain Reaction of Love?  That's a song that should be re-recorded by the Beach Boys, tear up the charts, and give Brian his last number one!

I love the 1988 album.  However, my visualization of the album has changed.  For years I imagined those metallic screamy block-chord backing vocals being naturally born of the Landy-ized, face-lifted coked-up Superman of a Brian.  EVERYTHING about that album was as tight as the head of a snare drum.  

Now I find out that a) something called a Fairlight was used to pitch-correct the vocals even way back then, and b) Brian's surgery took place after the album was recorded.  Amazing how that kinda makes the record sound much, much different now.  :psyche

Ah the Fairlight.....some artists in the 80's went as far as to boast "this album contains no Fairlight"

I love TLOS. Of every album that Brian ever had anything to do with, it's my 5th favorite, right after Pet Sounds, SMiLE, Sunflower and Friends.

Wait, Brian got plastic surgery at some point, ostensibly (as most else during this period) because of Landy's bullying? Damn...

and on the other side of the spectrum, Todd Rundgren recorded an album using nothing BUT the Fairlight!

I've heard three versions of this:

1) Brian was scheduled for a facelift, but the surgery was canceled when he was on the table, because of the possible consequences of anesthesia with all the psych meds he was on.

2) According to the WIBN book, his "plastic surgeon" fixed up his cheekbone, where Murry slugged him as a kid.  No mention of a facelift.

3) Someone on this board mentioned a facelift, with a specific date in August-September 1988, IIRC.

I see a much tauter, younger-looking Brian in videos from 1989 than I do from anything prior to 1988-- for example, the 1986 Hawaii special.  At that point, he had many more folds around his eyes and more deep grooves in his cheeks, as opposed to later on.  The wrinkles were likely due to the extreme weight loss; I don't know if there's a possibility that wrinkles go away in time, if the skin is young enough to re-tighten...  ???

Me too.

Oh, heck, I might as well do my Brian solo ranking...that is, credited to Brian apart from the Beach Boys, most favorite to least favorite:

1) Smile -- I will forever defend my stance that Brian's finished version blows away the unfinished gloomy fragments from the Beach Boys era, using vocals from unwilling participants and a producer who was obviously unsure about what to do with the music. Dare I say it, I sometimes think BWPS may even top Pet Sounds.

(tied for 2) That Lucky Old Sun -- a logical follow-up to Smile, IMHO. One of two kinds of music Brian should do more of: suites/modular tunes/etc. Some of it is a bit hokey, like "Mexican Girl," but most of the album is pure gold. Indeed, step outside on a sunny Friday morning while listening to "Morning Beat" with a good pair of headphones just as the "Mau-mamayama-glory hallelujah" vocals kick in...freakin' amazing! And "Midnight's Another Day" -- wow....I didn't know Brian had another "'Til I Die" in him!

(tied for 2) Brian Wilson Reimagines Gershwin -- The other kind of music Brian should be doing nowadays: the croony type stuff. Can't get enough "Summertime" (especially live -- he absolutely NAILS that one!), "I Loves You, Porgy," and "It Ain't Necessarily So." Amazing arrangements. Can do without that "Little Deuce Coupe"-esque "They Can't Take That Away From Me" and the last track, though.

4) Live At The Roxy Theater -- great live set. Especially love the "Let's Go Away For Awhile" / "Pet Sounds" medley.

5) What I Really Want For Christmas -- Kinda weird. I don't care for Gettin' In Over My Head, but I think of this as the Christmas version of that album, but much more enjoyable and pleasant.

6) Brian Wilson -- despite the 80s-ness, amazing songs that shows that if you're a genius, you'll always have it (if you want it)

7) I Just Wasn't Made For These Times -- nice semi-unplugged remakes, albeit a short album.

VIII) Orange Crate Art -- Brian's voice is kind of harsh on this...and "Me And My Hobo Heart" makes me cringe.

9) Pet Sounds Live -- a very stale production. The DVD is much better.

10) Imagination -- too twinkly for my tastes, but I do dig "South American" and "She Says That She Needs Me"

11) Getting In Over My Head -- somehow overproduced and underproduced at the same time. Many of the SONGS are great -- "Don't Let Her Know She's An Angel," "Rainbow Eyes," "Make A Wish" (although the lyrics are kind of cheesy), "City Blues," "Soul Searchin'"; just presented very badly. Makes me wish that this would have been recorded in a more sane way, with some of the songs not as long as they are, maybe include "Water Builds Up," and get rid of that dreadful "The Waltz," which I dearly hope is a major put-on by Brian and Van Dyke.

Madness. So you like Darian's work better than Brian's, eh?


Midnight's Another Day is not in the same universe as Till I Die for me. It's got Scott's words instead of Brian's timeless ones [which VDP praised highly for Brian to have written] and the music isn't nearly as interesting. In fact, I find it kind of boring.


Here I agree with you friend. For this, I spare thy life. I've actually been groovin' on this album quite a bit recently. It's very comforting. You know what it is, it's done well, you can dig it. It's cool for where Brian's at now and his age and where he's at with his age [Brian seems to enjoy aging, he's often closing his eyes and meditating in public places like most spiritual people]. It's not 1988 quirky Brian Wilson genius but it really does have a distinctive BW-feel despite the suspicious involvement of Mertens et al in the 'fleshing out' of Brian's primal ideas.

I've always said that the problem with GIOMH is not what it is....but what it isn't.

It's not a coherent album like Pet Sounds. It's a collection of mostly pretty good pop style songs. The problem is that Brian clearly lost interest, therefore some of the vocals are sloppy (even slurred) and the production isn't up to BW standards.

But take a few of the better songs from GIOMH in isolation and they're good to groove to on a nice day.

No. I like Darian's work better than Paley's, Landy's, Scott B's, VDP's, Don Was', Joe Thomas's, and whoever's albums were the live albums and GIOMH.

There. I said it. "You need a mess of help to stand alone."