The Smiley Smile Message Board

What's the story on this song? How did it even come to exist? Brian is in crazy genius mode here for sure. The silences are a zen mystery. Any cool unofficial versions of this track? I've heard the stereo mix and the alternate take or whatever it is - how about Brian playing it on piano anywhere? I've heard him do it live with his band.

I heard this was John Lennon's favorite Beach Boys song, that he used to love when it came on the radio. John Lennon used a lot of acid. He heard the LSD ecstatically crying from that single.

one of my favorites. just heard Brian and co. play it in Atlanta. i was most pleased.
he said it was possibly his favorite production, even if it didn't do well in the charts.

lyrically it seems to pick up where "All Dressed Up For School" left off. did Brian write this one solo?

I always heard this song as California Girls Volume 2, similar structure, arrangement and even chord sequences, but in all aspects one step ahead.

It's a song... about a girl he once knew... she was small then... but she's not now.

Is all.

They are very similar. I'm not up on my facts but just from hearing them alone they seem to be brother & sister companion songs & productions and arrangements. Little Girl has a crazy Bach-on-acid at a carnival sound, California Girls is more like the coolest laid back white spiritual californian groove BrianBach had made by 1965. The first verse is a bit tame - but Mike is just warming us up. The glory is the oceanic harmonies of the second verse and beyond. The first chorus when I hear it - the bass parts sound like moogs but I'm aware that they were all electric basses and organs and pianos and saxophones or whatever else... Brian was making a sort of space sound. It wasn't just the band playing but the reverb that ended up on tape. The reverb Brian's productions got was masterful. Ordinary organs (which sound bland just as they are sometimes) become  watery ocean mirage like mystery sound colors. I would say that organ sound in California Girls, The Little Girl I Once Knew, Good Vibrations [and all the others which were less well known] is a very defining Beach Boys sound. At least for that period of impermanent happenings. Brian Wilson had a sort of Bach thing going on. You knew it for sure when you heard You Still Believe In Me in the room with the Beatles. I was there. Not as I am now, the beast that typeth to you.



I know what the lyric is most noble sir, but this song is not lightweight fluff like "You're So Good To Me". The musicians know it! Little Girl is one of Brian's coolest tracks. The silence is symphonic.

You could probably go into the once speculated theory that Brian wrote it about his little sister-in-law Barbara Rovell, but that might not be psychedelic enough...i'm not sure.

I never did like this song.

1:50 in The Little Girl I Once Knew. Please listen. When the keyboard goes back into the arpeggios or trills or whatever I don't know technical terms [I'm a field mouse in a worst road made new by the nightfall's embrace which I find to be most enlightening - god as absolute nothingness - the emptiness of total darkness - the voidness of space] it is like a fucking RAINBOW OF COLORS . Not necessarily pink though, I just wanted to stress to the followers of the Dao of Foskett that Brian is a psychedelic Bach and cannot be a caged bird. He needs to let loose and write more songs about what obviously inspires him most: girls. Brian seems to really dig Melinda. Let's hear some Darlin's for her then, I could get into that. Just some funky songs. You don't think 70 year olds are funky? According to interviews Melinda bakes Brian a pie quite regularly.

Jon --

When you say "psychedelic" do you mean "Wild Honey"-psychedelic, or, like, The Association-psychedelic???

Or Mike Love-psychedoozy ?

Haha, that was funny. I'm glad you used an easy going joke and not a mean attack - some smile would do us all well. I find that theory very interesting because of some of my own observations. I won't go into it much here because it's a bit more serious than I'd prefer to be. Personally I am amazed that Brian stuck with Marilyn so long even after becoming "Brian Wilson". Even in the early days I'm sure he could've got any girl, right? Not a bad looking fellow, creative genius, cool mind, obviously makin' a lot of bread, he told you in his song... Marilyn was cute in her teens from what I've seen. I can definitely see Brian's attraction to her and her to him. I am everybody. There is nothing I'm not. I am Jon Stebbins. I am Brian Wilson. I am the clouds and the letdown sunlight magnolia. Who was the roller skating child? That's the new chorus to Cabinessence: Who was the roller skating child, who was the roller skating child, who was the

"Hey ghost, you feeling that acid yet?"  ;)

Got any more hash joints Clark? Come on I know you do

Both... as well as Tommy Roe psychedelic.

I am the Walrus.

Did Dennis feel shame for never telling the truth about the Manson fiasco? He could've shed a LOT of light on things but he chose silence and not-knowing. Why?

Goo, Goo, Goo-chu! ;)

What did he lie about, exactly? Shed light on what?

Didn't lie, just didn't testify. Can't recall offhand if he actually refused, or just made himself scarce at the right time. Guy called Stebbins would know.

As for why, well, you ever seen the police photos from inside 10050 ? That's why.

He may have not lied upfront - I don't know everything the guy ever said - but it's hard to imagine he didn't naturally change the truth for different people as one does. I've read fairly extensively on the Manson situation and the profoundly forbidden nature of this topic in the Beach Boys world is astounding. We get interview after interview with these interviewers repeating the same stupid sh*t again and again. Why not say hey Brian, how about that Charles Manson eh? What was it like when he was over your house? Was he cool? Did you play Shortnin Bread with him? Did you fool around with any of the girls? He's said he likes you man, so don't worry about any bad vibes.

That is a fact by the way, I heard a tape of Manson speaking and he mentioned Brian and said he was a cool guy but a hermit, creative reclusive type. (paraphrasd).

Plus anything Dennis could've added would have been well after the murders took place. Manson seems to have gotten his lifetime in prison without any needed info provided by Dennis.

Dennis could have testified for or against Tex - whichever side he chose - because he knew him very well as well as other family members. Tex by the time of the murders was out of his mind by all accounts but in the year before he had been a goofy tall Texan momma's boy. Dennis' testimony could have really caused a huge impact so obviously I understand why he chose silence.

Dennis could have also shed a lot of light into the psychology of the family and how sex was used to keep males and sources of useful things subordinate to the overall family under Charlie's swastika third eye. Dennis was kept good and f***ed by Manson's sometimes pretty sometimes homely looking girls - so he'd keep letting them have the car, the pad, the this and that...

I think everyone around the Beach Boys, their families, their business agreed that keeping Dennis out of the papers and the courtroom was preferable. Dennis' friend and collaborator Gregg Jakobson told Bugliosi he knew everything that Dennis knew...and he agreed to testify in place of Dennis. Bugliosi was satisfied with that because Gregg is a far more malleable, predictable and procedure friendly entity than Dennis Wilson. Jakobson ended up being a huge help to the prosecution. Dennis may not have been as helpful, I don't know. Yes he knew a lot, but so did dozens of people who didn't testify.

Dennis would've ruined Bug's case by being so unruly. He'd forget what not to say and mess up Vince's whole mirage.

exactly

Today is the 42nd anniversary of the Tate-LaBianca murders.

Can anyone point me to a picture (or post one or something) of Barbara Rovell? I have never seen what she looks like and i am quite obsessed with M&D. Thanks.

Just picture Marilyn with less nose and you're pretty much there.

here ya go:

[attachment deleted by admin]

I'd probably write a song about her too if she was my sister-in-law!

But I'd have Dennis sing it! That would fool everyone  :P

Dennis kept silent out of fear for his own life, but some time after the Family was convicted and sentenced he did say, and I paraphrase "I know the real reason why they did it and one day I'll write a book about it".

If Dennis didn't die so soon I doubt he would have kept it all to himself.

EDIT: Found the quote: "I know why Charles Manson did what he did," said Dennis. "Someday, I'll tell the world. I'll write a book and explain why he did it.""

Uh, Erik, Barbara, not Marilyn or Diane.

Oops!!!!

Well, I guess I should admit I really like looking at pics of Diane!!!

The cutest female involved in the Beach Boys saga is Wendy Wilson. As a child. All dressed up for school now.

 >:D

Um, agreed!

I had Wilson Phillips videos taped off MTV and the pause button was good and ready

I think Carnie is also quite beautiful and has always been!

They both come from good looking parents.

Dennis being as unreal as he was, seems to cause Brian and Carl to get short shift compliment-wise.

I've always found Brian at his best (solo album era) to be even more handsome than Dennis, and Carl around 1980 was extremely good looking.

As soon as we go into which Beach Boy is sexiest, man, we'll all take a self-imposed month long break from the board to asses our lives & sexual orientations.

Brian looks damn cool & handsome in a lot of the press shots for the Gershwin album. When he has that somber, introspective look it makes him very handsome.

The best that I've seen Brian look later was at Live Aid in Philadelphia in 1985.

No Barbara here, but how cool is this:

[attachment deleted by admin]

here's what I'm talkin bout:

[attachment deleted by admin]

Howard Stern had the right idea - Brian should've got with that broad from that Be My Baby song. She's pretty hot. Brian would really get his funky side on them.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought Barbara was in the famous photo with all of Brians friends, the one that he demanded from an airplane?

Correct, you're not wrong.

I love listening to that song. The only thing that I could say to its disfavor is that it is one of the few times where Brian doesn't offer anything sonically new in a single. It's basically the shuffled organ from CG merged with the speed and the bow-bow-bow bg vox from HM,R. Brian doesn't f*** with the formula enough in this one!  ;D

Keep listening. The way he uses the organ is totally different to California Girls. It becomes a psychedelic carnival organ played by Bach on acid. California Girls is an oceanic mirage sound.

Say what? What about the silences? That is not only fu ck i n g with the BB formula, that is fu ck i n g with pop music formula. That is such a big "no no" in pop. It's one of the most daring things he did in the height of their popularity. But i don't know if this really applies to what you're referring to as "sonically." Maybe not. I guess what i'm saying refers more to structure. 

Also, what in the world is up with filtering "bad" words on this forum? What, are we children being sheltered from literally seeing a word even though the connotation is clearly there? This is so silly.

Dear Monicker,

Slang and curse is to be avoided by obedient societal slaves. We are looking out for your mind, for your own good. Trust in us, keep working, keep hoping. The original creator deity of this website was a Mormon or something which seems equally ridiculous in retrospect as far as quoting the Bible in the rules and stuff. So we're stuck in this Pleasantville land.

To that I say fuckshitcuntbollocks.

How come 'c***' isn't censored? c*** is worse than f*** and sh*t!

You don't like Nirvana's song Moist Vagina?

OMG - so well put - "the silence is symphonic!"   

Just love that song...and would LOVE to hear it live!

My hook to the BB music!  8)

"I HAD NO EYES" - CARL WILSON

Split, man.  8)

The silence to me is the sound of being so awe struck you stop dead in your tracks as she walks by.

Ahhhhhh, there's ya boy! He's got it!

What is the deal with the cut-down of the pre-chorus, after the first verse?  Underneath "look out, babe".  The edit is so choppy it almost sounds like a glitch, but for the fact that Mike is singing over it.  Brian's live arrangement doesn't reproduce that cut.

It's a sadly neglected song.  If it had been a bonus track to Pet Sounds instead of Today/Summer Days, it might receive more attention.

I've always thought that it does in fact belong much more in the Pet Sounds camp.  It was recorded more than 4 months after the last Summer Days session (an eternity in 1965), 3 months after the track for Sloop John B, and just a week or two before Trombone Dixie and You Still Believe in Me.  While it might not quite be Pet Sounds material, it doesn't miss by much.

Agreed - I've always wondered why it never made Pet Sounds re-issues, etc. instead of Summer Days. Shoot, paw, on that note, it wouldn't have even been terribly out of place on the album itself back in '66. Maybe.

I absolutely love this song. Hands down in my top 5.

I've always thought though that it was a choice of putting either this or wouldn't it be nice on petsounds. The production is possibly too similar to include both on the same record. It's the rocking accordians of WIBN that does it. Pure sonic heaven!!

Among all the false stories of Brian destroying masters, attempting to destroy masters, etc. it's kind of sad that he really did willingly destroy the master for this one. Is there even enough there to assemble a stereo backing track or anything? Stereo backing track with a final chorus, maybe? I've never heard the conversation he taped over the song with.

A unique song that makes me wonder if maybe Mike was right and they shouldnt mess with the formula. This was the last track Brian made before starting work on Pet Sounds. I think it is one of his best. Of course the next 3 albums were all pretty great too.

I am the APEMAN.. LOVE LGIOK..1st song i ever heard BW play in 1999..Great keyboard part + vocals..

Open Pet Sounds with it, followed by WIBN - It fits with the chronology of a relationship so it keeps with the theme.

No one can keep up a sound and quality forever. Mikey boi was wrong.

This track has some pretty darn good quality though. Summer Nights to me is amazing. Its as mind blowing as Pet Sounds

Oh, not denying that there's a ton of quality here, Summer Days etc. Just sayin', I think the change was inevitable and even happening on these songs and albums. I think attempting to re-write "The Little Girl I Once Knew" for the rest of his career just wouldn't necessarily mean the quality would remain of that level, etc.

I always have to wonder what Mike thought of some of the Summer Days and Today! stuff, considering so much of it really isn't too far off from Pet Sounds or even if talking solely of arrangement complexity, the Smile stuff. Kinda.

MIKE always questioned Please Let Me Wonder..The lyrics + music.. And the title etc....And how come no one ever mentions She Knows Me To Well in the same breath as PLMW+KMB..But they talk about ..In the back of my mind..? SKMTW is BETTER than ..ITBOMM..IMHO..!!!

OH, THE ACRONYMS!!!!!!!!!! ;(

Given that Mike co-wrote most of the songs on each album, I'd bet he likes them. His issue with PS and Smile, as much as he ever actually had an issue, was with listeners relating to the lyrics. That's his whole point about Good Vibrations, for instance -- his contributions made the track accessible. I'd bet he feels that way about those albums, too.

Frankly, I suspect any issue Mike has with PS has a lot more to do with Tony Asher than the actual songs. I'm sure he felt he could have done just as well.

I was thinking the same thing a bit ago after posting this. Then I realized I was thinking about the internet while not on the internet. Then I got sad.

Besides, where did the stupidity that Mike does not like the BBs more sophisticated productions originate?
He questions a couple of verses and all of a sudden he hates Pet Sounds!

After relistening this many times over (including the stereo mix) I think the reason why it tanked compared to CalGirls is because of it's intense complexity, it is more of a album track than a hit single. Many people cite the silence as the reason it failed, I strongly doubt that. I think it has more to do with the lyrics which are NOT AT ALL on par with the wonderful melody, chord progression and instrumentation. The lyrics on it are rather too much in the style of Summer Days for it to really work. The lyrics are almost novelty like Loop De Loop, Salt Lake City and Amusement Parks USA. I think the song was a huge missed opportunity for the group in keeping the US audience which didnt really bite on to PS which was done shortly afterwards. John Lennon recognised it as a great track. And that it truely is, but Brian screwed up on getting the lyrics/approving the right lyrics for it.

Nobody ever mentions this, but Mike might have dug his own grave with the lyrics to this song.

I think the lyrics are great. There's no cars or surfboards, no amusement parks. It has the exact same theme lyrically as Caroline No. I think it would have fit comfortably on Pet Sounds. I haven't worked out an exact tracklisting, but in my 12-song Pet Sounds sequence in my head, it's somewhere late on either side 1 or side 2.

Lyrically, yes, I think it did fall just a few inches short of the themes Brian would explore in much greater depth with Tony Asher, who was able to crystallize those thoughts in more of a poetic way than "Little Girl...". The lyrics are still good, though.

I think ultimately the song's downfall was having an awkward melody. The chorus is a soaring melodic hook that anyone can sing along with and remember. It has that parade-like beat and a great melodic hook. The stop-start, dead silence trick is gimmicky but it works to build up the power of the chorus even more.

But that verse melody is awkward. You can't whistle it, it's really too thick with harmony at the outset to key in on a line to sing along with, and when it does strip down to one voice in response to the harmony, it's just "blah".

Not that every song has to have a sing-able melody, but I'd think for a radio single from the Beach Boys in 1965-66 it would have to be a concern. The chorus outshines the verse by too wide a margin, IMO. Even the deeper Pet Sounds cuts with those unusual melodies have more flow than "Little Girl..."

It's a tremendous track and should've been a hit. Definately in my top twenty, perhaps even top ten - and he didn't even put it on an album!? Brian was on fire back then!

It did make a volume 3 of the later "best of" compilations.  It might have fit on 20/20 a little better with the retro feel; which, if anything, had a more eclectic playlist.  If it didn't make SDSN (acronyms!) where to put it? 

It did not do that badly, #8 in Boston in November of 1965, during a time of fierce competition to break into the top 10.  Wiki has some markets faring better, as high as #4. 

Always one of my favorites and such cool voicing of "look out, babe, and...split man" with Mike, razor sharp, delivering the message.  And, paved the way to BB fandom on that little thing called the radio... ;)

It made the second "best of" comp. (the third one was for The Brother Years), and also the Warmth of The Sun comp, the follow up to Sounds of Summer.

He's referring to the original "Best of the Beach Boys Vol. 3" on vinyl from 1968.

I would agree with this. The lyrics are almost creepy in the bad Lazy Lizzy/Hey Little Tomboy way. We met when she was younger, but too young, now im trying for her. It's like: Then she was 13 and I am 19, but now she's 15 and I'm 21. HEY COULD THIS WORK?
Then again this was the actual case with Brian and Marilyn right? Guess reality is creepier than the song.

Of course, if you weren't such a pedophiliac-leaning lecher, you'd probably have thought: "we met when she was 9 and I was 10, now I'm 17, she's a fantastic 16 and I'm going to try for her.

 If "The Little Girl I Once Knew" had been a bigger hit, Capitol suits would likely have insisted it be included on PET SOUNDS. And that wouldn't have been a bad a idea. You could swap it for "Sloop John B" and the flow of the record would be fine.

 Mike's "split man" is a super cool moment. This one tune greatly deepened my interest in The Beach Boys when I first heard it on SPIRIT OF AMERICA.

That's cool. I can understand that.

I haven't officially burned a playlist yet, but my 'slightly-alternate' Pet Sounds goes like this.

Side One: Wouldn't It Be Nice/You Still Believe In Me/That's Not Me/Don't Talk/I'm Waiting For The Day/Sloop John B
Side Two:God Only Knows/The Little Girl I Once Knew/Here Today/I Just Wasn't Made For These Times/I Know There's An Answer/Caroline No