The Smiley Smile Message Board

Just watched another excellent instalment by Behind The Sounds: God Only Knows Part 2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCTVcNsJGX0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCTVcNsJGX0) and was intrigued to see Carl Wilson listed as playing 12-string guitar on the track. I haven't seen written evidence of this in any of the Pet Sounds liners, although I do recall Bruce saying that Carl had plugged his guitar directly into the board for GOK as there wasn't any available space in the studio. I'm quite sure that was the case for California Girls, so he may have misremembered.

Is there any solid evidence to support/refute Carl playing on the track?

Very fair point, the more so seeing as the AFM sheets don't list anyone as playing a guitar of any kind on the track (although it's possible that the second page of the contract is missing: however, comparing AFM and Capitol sheets reveals he's not one of the four MIA). Further, bending an ear to the session similarly reveals a complete absence of guitar. Odd.

No one likes joking around more than me , but , this is the kinda stuff I love reading about on this board.. Small details about the Beach Boys history.

Actually, there is guitar on the track.  Because of the final mix, the only way to really know that is to listen to the session tape, where guitar can not only be heard during the takes when the mix is being fiddled with, but there is some noodling between takes as well, which clearly identifies the guitar as a 12-string.  Is it Carl?  Seems likely, I guess.  He wouldn't mind not being listed on the AFM and it wouldn't be the only time that happened.

There was a time I listened to the GOK session so much and so often that I made myself physically and mentally ill, trying to figure out the bass situation...

Well damn - I'll have another listen.  ;D

In GOK (take 5 - 8) (UM) you can hear the guitar being strummed at the :16 second mark - and I'm assuming the player (whether Carl or not) is practicing his part before the take - I swear I can hear that same strumming pattern in the coda of GOK on the Pet Sounds Sessions disc....it's buried in the mix, but I think I can hear it.

Yes, there's plenty of mid-'60s sessions with the Wrecking Crew where brother Carl was also present, his 12-string plugged directly into the board....sometimes his name was on the AFM and sometimes not.  Bruce was definitely present (although not in a perorming capacity), so it's very likely Carl was there as well, and quite probably playing on the track.

For the record I hear little evidence of Carl playing guitar on the final mix of that tune. Unless he's buried in the mix as he's chunking away 1/4 note rhythm chords with the keyboard instruments.

Just wanted to point out that having the guitar go direct into the board could well have been a sonic choice as well, although there are specific sessions where the guitar had to go direct due to lack of space on the studio floor. Also, just because we see a photo of a certain guitarist sitting in the booth playing, we don't see whether he's plugged into an amp in an iso booth or on the floor or not.

One of the greatest rhythm guitarists ever - Nile Rodgers - got all those incredible Strat tones by going direct into the board, where he could shape and EQ the sound as he was mixing and it was the pure sound of the guitar to work with. Now picture sending Carl's Rickenbacker 12-string direct through those awesome mid-60's preamps and opto-compressors and you have one of the definitive 12-string electric jangle tones...no amp necessary.

Since it's my video, I thought I'd explain myself and chime in by saying I had a few doubts about including this credit, but since I do hear a 12-string strumming chords in the track and it was known that Carl often went unnamed on the AFM sheets I thought it was worth mentioning.  Perhaps I'll add an annotation adding "Not 100% sure about this".  I do think it's likely since it's been noted that other members of the BB's attended the session as well.

I also use Brad Elliot's Pet Sounds sessionography to augment my session info, which is where I originally saw this credit.  I don't know if it's a huge no-no to use this info, but I've found it to be pretty accurate when compared with the session tapes (Though the instruments listed are not always correct).

http://www.bradelliott.com/writings/ps3.html

Who keeps the bradelliot.com domain?
I thought he'd disappeared.

good question; maybe it's just "there" ?
or maybe he keeps it there and tracks people that check it? 
he's only disappeared from people trying to find him; he's out there/ not passed away, but it's bound to be a LONG time before he thinks it safe to show his face anywhere someone might actually find him( he could be reading these threads for all anyone knows)

He's around and keeping tabs on conversations where his name crops up. Some think that he posts here as Beach Head

Ah, I'd wondered about that ( Beach Head)

Now that I'm listening for it, I do hear a guitar playing quarter notes in the second verse and throughout most of the rest of the song.  Never heard that before - you really learn something new every day around here!  Just goes to show Brian's brilliant sense of texturing in the arrangement.

Perhaps this is a good time and place to bring up another bit of contentious session info: Does Brian play harpsichord on "I Just Wasn't Made For These Times"? On some session info Mike Melvoin is credited. Brian calls out takes, but his talkback mic sounds like it's on the studio floor with the musicians.  I don't have access to the AFM sheet for this session and would like to know what it has.

Edit: I listened closer and noticed Brian talking over the harpsichord and piano several times which makes it doubtful he's playing either.  I guess that the channel his talkback mic is on had the Gold Star reverb applied to it.  It also doesn't help that the unedited session is among the muddier tracks on SOT.

That's exactly what is happening, in my opinion.

The GOK session would have been packed out on the floor with the string quartet, the harpsichord, the piano, the accordions and whatnot in addition to the rhythm section.  Oh, to have been there, eh?

Brian definitely does not play harpsichord on IJWMFTT, but it would be very interesting to know how he communicated and came up with that figure that the piano and Harpsi play.  That's the one session I'd attend if I could only use the time machine once, let me tell you.

That honky-tonk piano during the "Sometimes I feel very sad" portion of IJWMFTT is amazing, complete crazy genius.

'Kay, now I hear it... as I recall, Ray Pohlman was originally credited with guitars (plural) in the box set liners, but Brian's comments to him make it clear he's playing bass. So, guitar player, unnamed. Might be Carl, might be someone else entirely. Whatever, there's definitely a guitar on the track so mea culpa.

Excellent work everyone! Incidentally, I first read Bruce's mention of Carl playing on GOK in a September 1990 issue of Select. I was reminded of it after seeing the video.

Indeed ! Unfortunately it's not audible on the released version. I was blown away when I heard the backing track for the first time

Well, it's audible, but barely.

That would have t be Don Randi's own creation, I suspect.  There're a lot of pretty standard blues licks in there that Randi would have right under his fingers.

Lol! Sorry, definitely not him! Just a long-time fan.

I blasted this in my headphones and cannot hear it. I tried and tried but its really hidden in there. I guess I can bust out the session tapes. Still, loved the youtube video.

You know, I can usually hear buried things better at very low volumes.

aeijtzsche,

Do you know what the sound is on IJWMFTT on the mono version about 5 seconds in? It is not on the stereo version...

Tried that as well, Josh. Just saying I ended up having it blasting at the end, but nada.

More specific on the sound? Is it an instrumental or vocal sound? I hear what sounds like a very faint fuzz tone "hit" around 5 seconds in on mono (hits on "I" and "after "mind" in the lyrics), but it's also there in stereo, right channel even more faint than mono.

If you can't hear the guitar on GOK try listening out for the on-beat chops on the second verse - this is where the guitar comes in, and is particularly apparent when you hear the occasional up-strokes of the plectrum, which are less apparent later in the song.

It doesn't sound much like a 12 string though.

Sort reminds me of a 4 string banjo.

I'm surprised Brian would have Carl playing a chord part on 12-string, specifically a jazzy harmonic part like GOK. Not saying Carl couldn't do it, but with the group of jazz guitarists Brian had for various Pet Sounds sessions I'd think he'd sooner give it to one of them since it fits right into their bag, and Carl was more of a single note guy with his 12-string in the studio...plus the Rickenbacker 12-string isn't known for voicing jazz chords all that well.

It is an out-of-the-ordinary usage, I agree. 

So, on the SOT GOK session, during the third track of what they call "early rehearsal" at 1:34 you can really hear the strums when somebody brings up the volume suddenly.  At 1:52 you can hear that Carl (or whoever) keeps playing stabs into the bridge.

At 2:40 you can hear some noodling which confirms it is a 12-string, and then at 3:36-3:46 there's a bunch of noodling.  During the actual used take, the guitar is most noticeable during the second verse, I think.

Craig--what do you think about the IJWMFTT piano break in question here, composition wise?  Something Brian suggested and Randi fine-tuned, or all Randi?

Anybody interested in hearing me play that piano part as I've transcribed it?

I can really imagine Brian going 'Don, play some bluesy piano, like this [plays approximation], just keep going and ad-libbing in that register for the C section' I wouldn't think something so fluid would require extensive tabulation on BW's part. Although pure speculation, of course.

My guess would be the former.  But remember it was Randi who made a key suggestion for the bridge on GOK.

True, but with "God Only Knows" Randi wasn't coming up with a new part, just a different way of playing the part that Brian already conceived. I agree that Brian probably gave him the general idea for the "IJWMFTT" piano and Randi fine-tuned it. That part is so off-the-wall that it could have only come from Brian.

Two Craigs in the room at last count! ;D

Very tough call - Conceptually, Brian knew before the session what he wanted sonically, and had a honky-tonk piano ready to go. I see that as a nod to the past, sonically, and he needed a part which fit into the barrelhouse-saloon style while playing modern pop chords. It's quite a brilliant way to do it, where other arrangers and composers might try it and turn it into a comedy or a parody. Brian manages to make the part compelling and relevant in the context of the song.

I believe the part - as most of Brian's rhythm section parts did I'm guessing - existed as a chord chart on the music stand, with maybe a few rhythmic hits and melody lines here and there as cues. I believe Brian suggested the feel over those chords, maybe had Randi try a few variations while rehearsing, and when it was close Brian turned him loose. It's just my opinion, but I do not hear that as a specifically composed part - it sounds like what you'd get if you gave any session pianist a chord progression and asked for an old-time saloon feel.

Absolutely one of *the* highlights of hearing the session tapes...why this was buried in the 1966 mix I'll never quite understand, but Brian is Brian and all we can do is listen.

Yes, I agonized over how to phrase that.  "Craigs, what do you think"...  I figured whoever by that name that felt like answering would answer!

Yeah man...would be cool to see the transcription too!

I've been working on the IJWMFTT piano part since I picked it out of the mix, so I'd be interested! And this is a great thread btw...

I have a hard time describing the sound but I thinkwe are talking about the same tone. Though I never heard it as fuzzy, I can't seem to think of the right description. I've always heard it louder on the mono version though, not until you pointed me towards the rght channel did I hear it on the stereo.

To harken back to another thread I feel that the stereo can be too crispy clean sometimes depending on the mood I'm in.