The Smiley Smile Message Board

Let's face it. That's the current consensus of the board. You all want to be so iconoclastic so bad that you let the poles shift under your own watch! Our discussions have transitioned from praising "Brian, the psychedelic genius", to hailing "Mike, the logistic leader" (because Brian got played out). Screw that. Y'all have lost your minds. Take a deep breath and reassess the situation.

Wait, what?

Have to say I agree. You can't indulge in a good old fashioned bit of Mike bashing on this board without getting it in the neck.

I have reassessed my opinion of him somewhat in the last few years. Like a lot of people I was taken in by the anti Mike propaganda which has arisen from the BW camp over the years. Certainly his "autobiography" had a lot to do with shaping my opinion of Mike, and even when that book was proven to be spurious, my opinion of Mike was set.

Recently I have read a few things, quotes from Mike, and stuff on this board, which has softened my opinion of him as the arch villain of the story. However I still regard him as a rather unpleasant individual, and this is based on how he portrays himself in interviews and actions.

I do think he had an influence on the image of the band in the early days.

I don't think he was a particularly strong  lyricist

I do think that he owes his career and lifestyle to Brian

I don't think he realises that.

But then families are strange, combustible things where emotions often obscure rationality. I can't imagine playing out petulant family rows on a public stage. For this reason alone I tend to judge him less harshly now.

He's a knobhead

But he's our knobhead

It does seem weirdly pro-Mike around here sometimes, like people are trying to be "ironic."

Here's my current opinion of Mike.
--I don't like his personality. I think he's kind of a jerk, based on certain things he's said over the years.
--I don't think he's a particularly great lyricist. His best lyrics are merely decent. His worst lyrics are embarrassing, and I resent that his standards can be so low.
--I don't like when he refers to "my cousin Brian." Yes, Mike, we know. He's your cousin.
--I don't like his passive aggression when referring to Brian or Dennis. Genius, but he has a lot of problems. Wrote some good music, but he got mixed up in drugs. It would be nice just to hear the good stuff every now and then. Dennis died, so I think we as the public understand that he had problems.
--His clothes and nasality get on my nerves. Petty, but true.
--I do think that without Mike, the group wouldn't be as famous. Mike was the voice and the face of the group in the early days and is again now.
--In some cases, Mike's "merely decent" lyrics were just what the doctor ordered. Those were the hits.

The only big defense of Mike here, is that he wasn't the devil incarnate when it comes to singlehandedly destroying Smile. Mike has always reminded me of being like a Eddie Haskel type of smart-ass. He's not a guy that I would have pal'd around with as a kid.

I have a "friend" that is like Mike who is kinda annoying and thinks he is awesome like Mike does. He also doesn't realise he is annoying and makes weird choices in life actions or speech like Mike does. I also have have a love-hate friendship with him like Brian and Mike have.

To correct something that was never true in the first place isn't being ironic. He needs to own his actual crap just like Brian needs to own his actual crap. To me a more balanced view has been achieved instead of the rabid one sidedness that used to rule.

My opinion of Mike Love is that he's is a narcissistic hole who will hurt others very badly without giving it a second thought.  I can't give specific details but base this on personal experience of a friend who is no longer with us...

You mean Dennis? I think Dennis handled his relationship with Mike just fine. When he didn't and things got a bit out of hand, Dennis took care of that by marrying his illegitimate cousin. I'd say Dennis could handle what Mike dished out in one way or another, good or bad.

"I can't give specific details" = "I have no specific details therefore I have no argument"

I wonder if Mike or his associates read these boards as Brian or Al and their people sometimes are said to do!

The ultimate thread on this board would be if Mr. Love himself joined and chatted with oldsurferdude and others.

Michael has gone on record several times stating that he just doesn't care what people think about him. He made his decisions, he's able to live with them, and he is who he is. That's the impression I get from him. I'd say he's much more balanced as a result. More power to him. He has a clearer conscience than most of the fanbase, and that's not much of a stretch.

He can laugh all the way to the bank because the people who take the time to hate him are the same people buying Beach Boy records - thus allowing him to live quite lavishly.

I used to be on the "Mike is a douche" bandwagon...then I realized I have never met the guy and honestly don't fully understand the context of his more publicly known supposed acts of stupidity (the lawsuits, SMiLE involvement, etc)....and thus have no valid reason to hate him.

I stated my opinion of Mike Love earlier.  I was not referring to Dennis in my post.  I was referring to a friend who was treated very badly by Mike many years ago.  This friend died shortly after the situation with Mike took place.  I won't go into elaborate details but feel my opinion is valid, based on my experience.    If you don't agree with my opinion, that's your business. 

Mike Love looks much better with his pants on. Remember when him and other members of the group used to wear those incredibly tight short shorts? I'm glad that those went out of vogue.....

(http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa40/sbardowell/Philip/Bardowell_Mike_love.jpg)

I don't care enough to hate him, but I do think Brian and The Beach Boys would have been better off without him.

No problem. Believe anything you like. You worded it such that it sounded like Dennis. I neither agree nor disagree since you've given an example with exactly no information from which to base an opinion.

"I have no excuse, sir." - Van Dyke Parks

Mike was The Voice on most of the early BB hits and many later ones. The BB would not have been the BB without Mike, I feel. He wrote some excellent lyrics and Brian could make great use of him and his bass voice in the studio. I can't comment on him as a person as I don't know him personally.

There is no such thing as irony in Beach Boys land.

And I think this is what really gets under people's skin about Mike and they hate him for it. He's not the best looking guy in the world or with an even remotely workable fashion sense, but he is confident and couldn't care less what all the message board posters/authors/historians/oldsurferdudes in the world have to say about him good or bad..... He was/is a great frontman with a natural knack for it and he's never once tried to be ironic. He really believes in The Beach Boys. Maybe the corny aspect of them a bit too much, but it still counts in a big way.......

 and that he even managed to battle Dennis for girls in any capacity is really saying something too....

..... he also saved David Marks from falling to his death from a balcony.... Can we give him a high five for THAT if nothing else?

This is only a generalization, but there will always be two competing groups of Beach Boys fans.  One group is drawn by complex albums like Pet Sounds and Smile and is fascinated by Brian.  The other group, like Real Beach Boy and a number of others, seem to value mainly the fun-in-the-sun, good time stuff, and don’t care too much about the sophistication of the music.

It’s not too surprising that each group’s perceptions of Mike are very different.

No, we like The Beach Boys as a whole and take a balanced view of the band.

Or we see it all as one and the same. the fun fun fun stuff counterbalances/informs the darker stuff and vice versa. The Beach Boys are a true three dimensional entity and should be embraced as such if one cares to fully appreciate them.

I suspect if there was, in sheer volume, the same amount of dredging up of shitty things Brian said or did as there are for Mike (and maybe there are but I'm unaware of 'em) there'd be a lot less hagiography going on. Seems to me a lot more people are willing to be charitable to Brian for whatever reason while not extending the same courtesy to Mike.

I think most of us love Pet Sounds and the fun-in-the-sun material (for most of us here see the sophistication in even the corniest of songs). However it's sad and true that when you mention to an acquaintance "Yeah, I love the Beach Boys!" their response will usually be "I LOVE kokomo!" I'll say "Have you ever heard Pet Sounds?" And their response is usually "That's a funny name for an album."

Well, I love Kokomo too  ;D

I don’t disagree that there are people who take that “balanced” approach to the band.  That’s why I qualified my comment to be a generalization.  But there are many, many people who fall squarely in one camp or another.

Despite what everyone says, Mike Love ain't a good frontman. I do not accept that as a reason for liking him. Lyricist, bass singer, lead singer, yes. Frontman, no.

His jokes are crap, he waffles on for hours inbetween songs (in Sycaruse 1971 show the crowd tell him to shut up!), he ruins songs by doing crap jokes (GV on Live In London, for example), he can't dance, his choice of stage wear since he got his own say has varied from robes to turbans to hawaiian shirts and shorts, and he wears a baseball cap constantly. He's not a 'good' frontman, he was the only frontman in a band who were really shy onstage. And Dennis, who was just far away.

No, you also said there are two competing groups. I say there is at least a third one who takes a balanced view and likes all eras of the band and music.

Despite what everyone says, Mike Love ain't a good frontman. I do not accept that as a reason for liking him. Lyricist, bass singer, lead singer, yes. Frontman, no.

His jokes are crap, he waffles on for hours inbetween songs (in Sycaruse 1971 show the crowd tell him to shut up!), he ruins songs by doing crap jokes (GV on Live In London, for example), he can't dance, his choice of stage wear since he got his own say has varied from robes to turbans to hawaiian shirts and shorts, and he wears a baseball cap constantly. He's not a 'good' frontman, he was the only frontman in a band who were really shy onstage. And Dennis, who was just far away


OK, so what inarguable unassailable opinion do you have of what makes a "good frontman" if the guy who's been doing it professionally for 40 years aint it?

We're charitable towards Brian because we all see him as being a tortured genius. He hears sh*t in his mind, he is afraid of water, he has severe stage fright. Because Brian is mentally unstable we all assume that Mike should be the cool-headed mature one...and when Mike sues his mentally ill cousin people get pissed...no matter how logical or illogical the lawsuit is.
______

Anyone know what Mike's attitude was towards Van Dyke Parks recording vocals on 'A Day In The Life Of A Tree'? Was Mike cool with it?

;D I'm a closet Kokomo fan myself. It's a great song in my opinion - including the sax solo.

You'd think after 10 years of doing it he wouldn't be such a twat onstage as to talk over his own songs, bore the audience to death chatting about TM lectures, and have to be politely nudged to shut up about Paul McCartney as the band are trying to play a song on national televison. right?

Says you, and that is fine, but it is your opinion only. I never thought him a great one, but I do think him a very good one. I'll bet you he was even good enough that the most average of fan knows his name more than anyone else in the band, including Brian.

I also took it for granted everyone assumed it was only my opinion.....

:pirate :h5 :rock :love :happydance :kiss :woot :thumbsup :wave :hug :serenade

Well, obviously a guy who makes good jokes, man who doesn't waffle for hours in between songs, a guy who can dance, a non-turban-wearing/hawaiian/base-ball-player. This leaves one person.

(http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h258/KilroyWasHereToo/wayne-newton.jpg)

WAYNE NEWTON FOR BEACH BOYS FRONTMAN.

But that stuff's FUNNY! Just my opinion, but because of all the good stuff Mike did with the band, all his contributions, it's not a lost fact how important he was, if only (in some people's minds) as a tool for Brian to work with. Therefore all his corny stuff and just-plain-wrongness can be endearing. Mike's like a messed up family member who you worry about letting out of the house, but still you love them, so you let them do their thing and just be who they are..... But when it comes down to it, Mike got his business done.

 
 ::)

I respect that, it's just everyone goes 'yeah, he's a great frontman' and, well, he ain't. He's cornball. But he's our cornball.  ;D

I'm obviously just meanspirited tonight, fellas.
UNLEASH THE LOVE http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vP73ZMGiXC8

Sounded like a fact to me. Come on, no need to get pissy about it. Challenge my front man opinion, not that I mistook what you meant, like I'm a mind reader. IMO would work nicely, and hardly any extra typing required. I'll state this next thing as opinion, but it is most likely a fact; Mike Love was, is and will continue to be the face of The Beach Boys. Good frontmen usually are...discuss. ;)

Prince  ;)

Quite possibly the most coherent reply oldsurferdude has ever contributed to this forum!!!

Absolutely, but Price does help prove that questionable fashion choices are not limited to Mr. Love!

Uh, this was my post:


Check the first five words.

Don't presume to tell me what I "seem to value" with regards to the Beach Boys. If you even read my posts on here you'll find that I heap tons of praise upon Pet Sounds, Smile, Smiley Smile, Friends, Sunflower, and Love You along with the fun-in-the-sun material. I would suggest that in future you at least be in possession of a convincing argument to back up your ridiculous remarks and refrain from hiding behind such g*ddamned nonsensical "generalization' terminology that you use to mask your lack of said argument.

and you read the following eight.

That's like a serious kick to the balls. The Real Beach Boy is a Beach Boys fan, period. He is a walking, breathing, living Beach Boys encyclopedia and most of all, you can tell he loves the music.

I can surely vouch for that statement.  ;D

The fun in the sun, goodtime side of the Beach Boys is just as sophisticated as Pet Sounds and Smile!

I learned that one after listening to knock-off bands from "the fun in the sun" period and finding out they were nowhere near as good as the BB's.

Hey, no offense intended whatsoever.  It’s just that everything I’ve seen from you, whether it’s your screen name and the picture that goes with it, your consistent defense of Mike, or your various comments on the music, makes me think that you’re strictly a “good time oldies” type guy.  Nothing wrong with that—just one perspective on music.

But if I’m wrong about that, I apologize.

Mike did sing on post fun in the sun songs.

Yeah, I can't hate the guy who wrote "All I Wanna Do" and "Big Sur"!

I take it for granted that everyone is posting their own opinion; except AGD, of course, who posts "The Facts".

Mike did sing on post fun in the sun songs.


That's a great point that, unfortunately, shouldn't have to be made at this late stage.

I still really just don't get how some Beach Boys "fans" can't seem to wrap their heads around the possibility that there are other fans out there who love the Beach Boys as much as them but love the whole package: Mike's turbans, bad jokes and all.

I really see no reason for this.

Watch the Knebworth DVD and the boys can tear through Little Deuce Coop like no one's business then bust into Cottonfields/Heroes And Villians without skipping a beat and without Mike having to go change into something "cool and edgy" first.

THAT'S THE BEACH BOYS!

First off, my name and the picture that goes with it started as an in-joke between Jonas and myself (at one point he was The REAL Real Beach Boy with a picture of Dennis as his avatar) and just went on from there.

I am a Beach Boys fan, period. I like pretty much everything they ever put out. I am not merely a "good time oldies type guy" although I will admit that without those I wouldn't be where I am now. My discourse on (specifically) this forum has been on a range of topics related to the Beach Boys.

Yes, I will admit to consistently defending Michael; in cases where I have offered an opinion it was done in a way that would diffuse a range of generally idiotic and ignorant remarks made by several "fans". Michael isn't even my favorite Beach Boy. That honor (LOL) goes to Brian, and has from the early days of my fandom. However, I did not close off my mind to the contributions of the others, including Michael. I suppose I'm more willing to accept them as a package deal, and not as "Brian, Dennis, Carl, Al, Bruce, and that bald asshole". Your mileage may vary. That's fine. They're the Beach Boys. They're the best fucking band in rock music. All nine of them.

Amen!!!

And it also depresses me how some people talk about loving the "oldies, fun fun fun stuff" as if there is anything in the hell wrong with that stuff other than it being awesome and earth shattering!

And I should probably qualify: my favorite BBs era was Surfin Safari through Pet Sounds, but my favorite album is , by far, Holland.

Brian is my favorite Beach Boy

My top two Beach Boys songs are Goin On and Getcha Back (that ought to say something in and of itself)

I think Dennis is the greatest solo artist in history.

Carl is the greatest singer in history

Mike/Brian are one of the most important songwriting/co-lead singing teams in music history.

Greatest band of all-time: THE BEACH BOYS

Erik, you are a sound fella and I am sorry I incited your ire in this thread.

Beach Boys were good at any music they tried in 1960s period. The TAMI show and the lost concert showed the original 5 members would rock the early material live like no other band.

Hey, no apology necessary!

It's serious business discussing turbans, baseball caps, Hawaiian shirts, bad jokes, extremely tight white pants, Stamos, TM lectures, scratchy red beards, robes, bald heads, sub-Jagger stripper-esque dance moves, oldsurferdude, Kokomo .....

.... but we do it with Love  :)

You keep that filth to yourself, this is a family messageboard  ;)

awww group hug everyone :grouphug

You keep that filth to yourself, this is a family messageboard  Wink


My bad!

That sort of thing is between oldsurferdude and his shrink, and is none of our business. But let's get him in on the group hug too, please!

Hey, that's what I like about Mike Love! :D Who else combines all these elements into one person?

Mike is far from my favorite Beach Boy, which is Brian for the obvious reasons. Carl is my favorite singer, especially in concert. My favorite songs, in order are: Wouldn't It Be Nice, Darlin' and Fun Fun Fun. Albums: Today, Sunflower and Love You. My favorite songs are not even on my favorite albums. I like everything, even SIP, for the most part.

Mike truly is the man because he is jack of all trades with awesomely cheesy and cornball behavior.

In some ways, I envy those of you that can pick your favorite song(s)/LP(s);   I can't do it.
There are just TOO many, and other than  SIP/SC, I love all of them, allbeit at different times. I can never single them out.

Let's just say they are songs and albums that I can listen at any time, that I never get tired of, ever. I have always had an affinity for Wouldn't It Be Nice since the first time that I heard it as an 11 year old kid. For me, it is the greatest song ever written.

Two observations

1) One could put up a good argument that the Beach Boys best live era (1972-1974) was also a time when Mike's role was more limited in terms of leads and presense (Carl was front and center)

2) Didn't Bruce serve as the emcee in the late 60's until his departure?

I'd say that's absolutely the best live period as far as being a tight, exciting, working unit that could stand up to the most popular and well oiled live acts of that time (and anytime really) , but for myself, as THE BEACH BOYS, I'm especially fond of the Brian led prime and 76-80 with Dennis back on drums!

And by "well oiled" I am not making reference to the shirtless Mike pics on the In Concert album jacket!

To me, "Goin' On" is one of the most underrated songs the group has ever done (minus the sax solo -_- ); glad to see someone give it its proper due!

forgot to edit the first 2 lines of your post. Proceed.

That is why the Beach Boys deserve at the very least a PG-13 rating: a lot of sax and violins. Please say that out loud.....

If a dude can make you angry enough that you amrry his daughter, who is, coincidentally your cousin, in order to get back at him, then that dude must be doing something seriously wrong to piss people off like that.

I'm a beardly Brianista, but singling out Mike Love for being a douche bag in the Beach Boys is kind of unfair considering the sh*t the rest of the Beach Boys did. They were a group of insane persons, mostly related, into way too many drugs, high on their egos, fucking everything that ever moved ever, drinking themselves to death and breathing in cocaine like air, fucking each other's wives, suing each other, recording Kokomo, you;re out of the band buckwheat! The Beach Boys were all stellar douche bags. god-tier assholes. Even Brian.


Especially Brian.

 But he's the genius, and almost every idea Mike Love has ever had that didn't involve facial hair was a terrible idea. Especially if the idea involved either music, or clothes. So I think that counts for something in Brian's favor.

though I may disagree a tad with your last sentence: you nailed it big time and enough to put some serious merda to rest  :)

This should be inscribed in their Hawthorne memorial...or whatever it is. :lol

They screwed each other's wives?  Really?

There's a BW interview where he talks about Dennis biblically knowing 'Carls wife, Al's wife, Mike's wife, my wife...." springs to mind. From early 2000'sish

Huh. I don't remember reading that. I can imagine if Dennis was involved, but not the others - not even Mike.

Better go read the gaines book again......

First thing I did when I became a fan was to read the Gaines book so i get the "learning" about rumored dirty gossip on the band out of the way. I then read the Brian bio by Carlin so i could get some real information about Brian and the group.  

Hell, they need to have a copy of Gains book on a chain at the Beach Boys historical monument!