The Smiley Smile Message Board

Holland fans, I have a question, which outtake from the Holland sessions do you prefer? We Got Love or Hard Time? If you had to pick one to add to final Holland running order, which one would make the cut?

Just curious,

Adrian

"Hard Time" was recorded shortly after the Holland lp was completed. But what about "Carry Me Home"? I believe it was recorded before the Holland project started but it makes a good leftover contender perhaps.

You're right, Dennis Carry Me Home. Is the definite one? Love that one,

What if you had to choose b/w Hard Time and We Got Love?

I was worried about that, time wise, even though it was recorded after--still between the two, it's still a tough one I lean towards We Got Love, and you?

Hard Time isn't really a song it's more like a sketch (at least the version I've heard) and as such it's great - for about 20 seconds

The studio version of We Got Love is weak compared to the version on the double live album, which rocks.  In which case I'd have to plumb for Carry Me Home.  Hard Time just ain't any where near a finished piece.

I don't consider Hard Time to be an outtake of the Holland album as it was recorded after the album was delivered.I do like it better than We Got Love though. Although the live version of WGL - as John M mentioned is much better.

Choosing between Carry Me Home and WGL is easy: Carry Me Home wins my vote.


I wouldn't consider Hard Time a sketch. The 3:27 version as can be heard on the All This Is That boot sounds like a complete version, albeit a demo perhaps.

Btw, I'm not talking about Hard Times aka Rollin' Up To Heaven.... that one's on a totally different level...  ;D
Btw,

I'm opting for a Beach Boys version of Spring's "Sweet Mountain".  ;D

Never been a fan of "Hard Time". "We Got Love" is way better. What about "Out in the Country"? Wasn't that recorded around that time as well? It clearly isn't a finished production but judging by what's actually there it would have fit in very well with the likes of "California Saga".

Both are pretty cool. Hard Time I think could have been a follow up to Sail On Sailor had it had more Beach Boys on it. It would have got good FM play.

Don't know where (but probably on this board) but I think I read that it was recorded during the C&tP-So Tough sessions

...

Ah, found it: http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,8454.msg141100.html#msg141100

"We Got Love" is pretty good - especially the live version..........but to me "Carry Me Home" edges that and the other ones out. Would love to hear a clearer version of it someday if it exists.

According to AGD's site:

Hard Times session - 4 October 72; therefore during the late September/early October session s for Holland

Sail on Sailor session - 28 November 72

Holland released 8 Jan 73

If this is right, while it may bever have been meant for Holland, it was recorded during that period.

But, yeah, Carry Me Home would get my vote.

In addition to "Carry Me Home", the slow version of "Big Sur" (4/4) would also get my vote. They gotta formally release that one someday.

Hasn't Blondie stated that Hard Time was something that he and Ricky worked on by themselves and was really not intended for any Beach Boys project?

Holy crap I just found this rare, better quality, Carry Me Home extended version that has Mike Love saying "Ain't that a motherf--" complimenting Dennis on his take. Amazing stuff, insight into the studio experience.

I wish they had of recorded that. I even have it worked out in my head who would have sung each part.
Carl would sing the call part of the verse
Mike the response.
All would sing the "Standing there" lines
In the chorus, Mike and Al would harmonize on the lead, Brian, or Bruce (if recorded before he left) would have taken the french bits.
Dennis would have sung the "and it rained on the mountain, the mountain of love" lines... I sometimes wonder if I put too much thought into this stuff  :lol

Mike's "Ain't that a motherf--" line was actually copied from the end of a "Love You" sessions demo from another bootleg and pasted behind "Carry Me Home" by a bootlegger. It doesn't belong there, but since Dennis wrote the song, Mike's statement does sound more dramatic/ironic since Dennis' death.

It doesn't belong, Sad, man. It fits. Oh well, at least it sounds good. I dig it.

Me too.  It fits for me.

Isn't that from the demo for "I'll Bet He's Nice?"

Yep!

Yes it is.   Brian is playing it on the piano with Mike listening near by.

Those are great demos, I love listening to them as well as Still I Dream of It and It's Over Now.  As for Holland, I would add Carry Me Home, if not that one, We Got Love.

I'll say We Got Love. The feel/vibe of the song fits more with the Holland album...let alone it has a Mike Love-writing credit, so it has another point of credibility.  ;)

Was Hard Times written by Ricky/Blondie or anyone else?

Just Ricky and Blondie.

Had Hard Times been written in time to perform for the BB In Concert album, I think it would have been a good rocker/inclusion for the live album.

"Had Hard Times been written in time to perform for the BB In Concert album, I think it would have been a good rocker/inclusion for the live album."





"According to AGD's site:

Hard Times session - 4 October 72; therefore during the late September/early October session s for Holland

Sail on Sailor session - 28 November 72

Holland released 8 Jan 73"

We Got Love

dont like hard time much but yeah Carry me Home is easily the best

btw was there a release of the Holland lp that included "we got love"? seem to remember something about that

http://www.the-flames.com/  > and then click on Holland LP (left menu)

or more directly: http://www.mollenkramer.nl/the-flames/holland.htm

The band could have also used It's A New Day on Holland if they needed another Dennis song (and another Blondie vocal for that matter). Frankly, I would have added Carry Me Home, It's A New Day, and We Got Love to Holland as is. A 45 minute album was not uncommon in 1973.

I'd take Hard Time over We Got Love anytime.  Even in it's not quite finished state.

Me too. We Got Love is fine on In Concert, but the studio version is kind of dull and lifeless, IMHO.

If not We Got Love then definitely Hard Times.

Wonderful info! Thanks a lot. I have a vague recollection of seeing a copy of holland with "we got love" listed as a track in a record shop in Eindhoven back in 1998. It was too expensive for me at the time. I live in Berlin these days and have come across a few copies of Holland so will be studying the grooves carefully from now on.

When We Got Love is actually listed on the cover, chances are that you have a French or Canadian copy in your hands... but it doesn't contain the actual track. The only ones that do have We Got Love on the record itself are a few hundred copies from Germany or early testpressings.

By the way, the French and Canadian pressings with WGL mentioned on the cover aren't that difficult to find. I've seen lot's of these being offered on Ebay or record fairs.

Thinking of adding We Got Love to the line up on Holland, it makes me think about how some say that Holland isn't as good as Sunflower and Surf's Up because Holland seems so serious. But really, I think there's humor in Funky Pretty and the humor in irony of Brian singing: "I'm on my way to Sunny Cal-ifor-n-i-a". The fact that a musical genius made Mt. Vernon and Fairway and it had never been done before or ever again has some time of non-seriousness to it. BTW, I always thought Surf's Up was a very serious album besides the inclusion of Take a Load off your Feet (minor mistake, but people still dig the album)...I just think Take a Load woulda sounded better on Sunflower or hell, they had so much material to put out another whole album between Sunflower and Surf's Up, why not call it Landlocked?  ;)

I really like Holland. But I think the album could be better.

Yeah, Hard Times was made after Holland was delivered. But I still prefer it over We Got Love, hands down!
And Carry Me Home is excellent as well, though I still prefer Hard Times. Though maybe it's because Carry Me Home sounds very incomplete and the quality of the bootleg is horrible.

What I'd change about Holland is adding the three songs mentioned, use the unreleased version of Big Sur instead of the bad one that made it to the final version, cut out Beaks Of Eagles (California Saga was so unnecessary!) and Steamboat, keep Sail On Sailor intact and remix and shorten every other remaining song!

If you'd read the thread, you'd see that Hard Times was recorded six weeks before Sail On Sailor and a couple or three months before Holland was released!


Which bootleg version are you listening to?


With respect, I disagree completely. The unreleased version of Big Sur is interesting but, to my ears, inferior to the album version. I appreciate that many feel differently but I Reckon the Beach Boys made the right call there.

Steamboat is one of Dennis's best productions. Just as Brian conjured up a railroad with Who Ran The Iron Horse, so Dennis conjured visions of a a grinding old paddle steamer, mist rising from the surface of a wide, dew-dripping tree-fringed river. Always thought of this as a piece of industrial rock in the way the music was effectively an evocative sound effect. He was way ahead of the other band members in this regard, maybe even pre-empting elements of what Tom Waits was to soon achieve.

As for editing Holland tracks for length… might as well take scissors to The Last Supper and cut out those 12 superfluous figures surrounding the bearded one…

I read some of the thread, but not every post. What I did read was comments such as how Hard Times was recorded just after Holland was delivered. In any case, Thanks for correcting me!

I think this is the version of Carry Me Home:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DrGk8xAHHDw

As for the rest, with respect we should agree to disagree  :)

Carry Me Home > Hard Times > We Got Love

A bit of truth from both sides.

http://www.esquarterly.com/bellagio//gigs72.html

Late September/early October the last session (of whatever songs) was held for the Holland album. On Oct. 4th "Hard Times" was recorded. and on Oct. 9th the Holland album was assembled. Hearing the recording of Hard Times, it sounds like a complete but unfinished track to me, so I can't imagine Hard Times being seriously considered for the album when the first Holland line-up songs was assembled. (Unless there's a more finished product we haven't heard yet.)

We all know the story. Warner rejected the album because it lacked a single with hit potention. And 6 weeks later (Nov. 28th) one more session was held for recording SOS and that was it. And one week after that side A was re-assembled.

So - just looking at the time frame - yes, Hard Times was recorded within the time frame all Holland tracks were recorded. But it's pretty clear the Boys thought the album was done early October, when only a demo of Hard Times was put on tape. And the only change they made after that was replacing one song for another, thus making minimal changes to the album.

So my bet would be not to consider Hard Times as a Holland outtake.


By the way. Is there any info on when Carry Me Home was recorded? Apparently no recording info was available while assembling the info for AGD's Bellagio webpage.

I think We Got Love should have been kept on the Holland album. The line up would have to be revised for it to fit maybe, or it could have kicked off side 2 before The Trader. Odd that Ricky and Blondies most commercial tune for the BBs was the one that got the boot.

 I hope when they re-release Holland on cd they will put those songs as bonus tracks, maybe end the album with "Fairytale music" instead of the actual fairytale and put the fairytale on a free second disc like how the album was released, then there would be more room for unreleased stuff on the first disc.
Holland
1. Sail on Sailor
2. Steamboat
3.Big Sur
4. The beaks of eagles
5.California
6, The Trader
7.leaving this town
8. only with you
9. Funky Pretty
Bonus
10. Fairytale Music
11. We Got Love
12. Hard Times
13. Big Sur (original)
14. Carry me home
15, It's a new day
and whatever else they want to fill up the disc

disc #2
Mt.Vernon (fairytale, complete)

I'd like to know more about the song as well. I've never heard anything about it.

I love Carry Me Home, We Got Love and Hard Times.  Glad it wasn't my choice!  They should all be released officially (studio versions).  Also in defence of HT I love the way it kicks in without a big intro, straight into it, rocking guitars.  It probably captures more of the live feel from that era, similar in that respect to the guitars on Marcella.

I don't get these posters saying that 'Hard Times' isn't a proper song/doesn't sound complete/etc. What version are they listening too? It's got a verse/a bridge/a verse/a bridge/a chorus/a guitar solo/a bridge/a chorus/a concluding rock-out. In what way is that not a completed song?

Anyway, Hard Times is a great and, for me, Blondie and Ricky's finest BB-related song. It's vastly superior to 'We Got Love' which is pretty lame and was best left off Holland.

Carry Me Home is a heartbreaking masterpiece and one of Dennis' finest hours. it's terrible really that, even after all this time, a song this brilliant is allowed to languish unreleased... Only the Beach Boys could leave a song of such quality unreleased.

I forgot about It's A New Day! Cracking song - Dennis really knew how to use female backing vocals - and a typically great Blondie lead. Wish they'd included it (and kept in the moment when he starts laughing on the fade).

Disagree with We Got Love, agreed with Hard Times and Carry Me Home.

I can see Hard Times being a hit single from that era. Oh well...

"Hard Time" is a completely different song - the X-rated version of "Ding Dang". Jus' sayin'...

Congratulations - you've just turned the band's best non-BW album into something that would majorly suck. As for "Hard Times" being recorded after Holland was delivered... since when did October 4th ever come after October 9th ?

Amen! Holland is amazing, We Got Love should be additionally added to it to make it even better...

As I've already said to John Manning: "I read some of the thread, but not every post. What I did read was comments such as how Hard Times was recorded just after Holland was delivered. In any case, Thanks for correcting me!"

I wouldn't say it's the Boys best album without major BW involvement. But it's all subjective

Which would you say is the best, then ? I'd like to know.

Must be Summer in Paradise...