The Smiley Smile Message Board

I've seen a lot of complaints about the interviews and articles on SMiLE recently, and wondered if we couldn't put together a list of our top 10 questions. Who knows, maybe some intrepid reporter would see them and take a stab at it.

Make a post of your ONE TOP QUESTION and at the end of the week I'll make a poll of them, and we can vote it out.

No need to argue on this thread, just throw in your piece and we can argue when the poll results are clear.

What the hell, dude?

Did I say something wrong?

What does "over and over the crow cries uncover the cornfield" mean?

or

Who ran the iron horse?

I think we call them engineers

There's no call for answers!  Only questions

What type of candy bar?

Just a box set track list would be nice....

How long was the longest H&V mix?????

Does Country Air have anything to do with the Air element?

Please elaborate on the Americana/Elements theme?  Just how vital was it to the intended (if there ever was one) lineup?

And by QUESTIONS, I'm assuming you mean questions to Brian, since only he and Van Dyke could really answer them.

Are you guys feeling the acid yet?

Is it true that Mike Love wears a salt-and-pepper merkin on his head when he goes to pick up chicks?

Which one event in particular led you to abandon Smile back in 67?

And if it was a culmination of events, which ones do you remember having the most impact:

VDP's first and/or second departure?
A particular acid trip?
Hearing the latest Beat1es tracks?
Having Mike Love query the lyrics?
Exhaustion?
Boredom?
Being overwhelmed by your own concept?

Tick any/all that apply!

Denny, do you have any hash joints left?

What will bring you the most happiness from this release of the SMiLE sessions?

1. Did the Beach Boys actually get letters from fans about what their favorite vegetables were? And did anybody shake out the results? Where are those letters now? (This counts as one question!)
2. What really is "Air"? Did you do a demo? Did the piece get recycled into anything else?
3. What's the story behind "He Gives Speeches"? Was this really intended for SMiLE, or was it just...a side track, kind of like "My Little Red Book"?
4. Did you ever attempt to write the "candle" piece that was supposed to replace "Mrs. O'Leary's Cow"?
5. You got several fantastic songs out of using the sandbox--would you ever consider having one again?
6. There are a couple of radically different versions of "Child"--there's the "Surf's Up"-styled version that got used in '04, and there's also the "jazzy" version that only turned up in session form. What's the story on the latter?
7. What was your plan for "H&V Part 2"? Would this two-parter have been the same thing as what you wanted on the original album, or did you have something even longer in mind?
8. Out of all the fan mixes presented to you, were there ever any you liked at all? Or at least in part?
9. There are extra lyrics in the "Smiley" version of "Wind Chimes"--were those ever intended for use in the SMiLE version?
10. Did you ever attempt to incorporate the unused "telephone" lyrics into "Cabinessence" at any point?

There. Dig that.

Evidently you don't understand the meaning of "One"

Sure I do. It's the loneliest number.

OK, I could've submitted each question one at a time. But I was trying to make up for all the joke questions people were putting up!

OK, going back to one question:

Brian, did you ever continue to work on SMiLE tapes in secret after the project was canned, as has been rumored?

Somebody stop me...

No, no - keep 'em coming!

Also:

Was the "intro" (firebells/whistles) intended as intro to Heroes & Villians or Mrs. O'Leary's Cow?

Is there a recorded vocal for "Old Master Painter"? (YOU sang this at the Atlanta Smile show)

Was "With Me Tonight" intended as part of Heroes & Villians?

I would love to know the answer to this.

And agreed, keep the good questions coming!

11. Are there more parts to the "story" within the H&V song that weren't recorded but were written/considered?

12. Was there ever a simple piano demo for H&V that contained the entire song/plot laid out in one go, like the "Surf's Up" demo?

13. It's generally presumed that "Can't Wait Too Long" isn't a SMiLE track yet...one version seems to contain recorded bits at the end from H&V, if I recall correctly. "Wait" was never finished. What's the story on that track, and does it actually have any connection to the SMiLE project?

14. Did you actually consider using any of the laughing horn experiments ("George") in SMiLE? If so, how did you imagine you might fit that in?

15. "Wonderful" and "Look/Song for Children" fit together spectacularly well in the '04 version...was this the original intent for these in '66?

16. Was there ever any deliberate attempt to write an "Earth" section for the elements? If so, what? Did it ever get recycled in anything else?

17. Can you tell us about how you came across Wordsworth's line from "My Heart Leaps Up" that inspired the title/concept of "Child"? Was this through your own reading adventures, or did someone turn you onto it?

18. You originally included "12th Street Rag" in "Look/Song For Children"--why did you? What caused you to delete it in '04? (Did this have anything to do with rights?)

19. At a dinner party, you directed your guests in a spontaneous mini-symphony of silverware/glasses percussion. Did you ever take this any further? Was it incorporated into "Vegetables" or any other piece for the album?

20. Did "Da Da" get recycled into "Had to Phone Ya"? Or are they merely similar?

21. Did the deleted instrumental break in "Time To Get Alone" originate from the "Look" lick? (Which seems also to appear in "Good Vibrations"?) Or are they merely similar?

22. The SMiLE party tape--sounds like you weren't having a good time that night. Can you describe what's going on, from your point of view?

OK, I gotta take a break. Y'all's turn for a bit...

Was "You're Welcome" EVER intended for the Smile album?

Who was "Henry" in the "Rock Me Henry" version of "Vega-Tables"?

Was "Friday Night" the earth element and was it to immediately follow "Mrs. O'Leary's Cow"?  And WHY did you move its place in BWPS????

What's the REAL story with "Look" and "Holidays"?  Part of Smile?  Or out-take?

Was Smile to be individual tracks of a normal album length - or were there "link" tracks and "everything but the kitchen sink" to press the bounds of a 1967 album length?

Were you aware that "Love to Say Da da" stands for LSD?

No - that's my question.

I think we know about the Henry thing...wasn't that from the old R&B song "Rock with Me, Henry"?

Another question: what's the origin of the title "Dumb Angel"? I don't think it's ever been explained anywhere. Where did it come from? Why was it abandoned?

In the Dennis Wilson biography, it stated that Brian's nickname for Dennis was "Dumb Angel"...but when I interviewed the author, he couldn't remember where he got that quote!

Probably not considering it actually stands for "ILTSDD".

Cool!  I didn't know that!

Well, look what happend to  "Lucy In The Sky With Diamonds" - the press didn't say LITSWD?
That one was a joke anyway...

O FINE.

P.S. FODA THE PRESS IN THE BEHIND.

Yeah, I think that was included just because it ties in with the sexual nature of the song.

I think there was another version of the song, called "Roll with me, Betty" or something like that...or maybe it's all in the same song, I dunno.

Exactly who wrote the Smile "song list" that was given to Capitol.  It obviously isn't your handwriting? 

lol

Here's the Dumb Angel quote...

http://www.earcandymag.com/dumbangbkinterview.htm (http://www.earcandymag.com/dumbangbkinterview.htm)

E.C.: Your book states that ,"Dumb Angel, the first working title of Smile, is said to have been an expression of Brian Wilson's insight into the character of his brother Dennis." In my readings of the Beach Boys, this is the first time I've seen that reference. What exactly was the source?

Adam: Off the top of my head I can't remember. How embarrassing. It's probably Dominic Priore or David Leaf, but I'll have to check on that.

Yeah, the "Rock with me Henry" interpolation is from the Etta James song "The Wallflower" (Modern 947, 1955). This was itself a response to another song, "Work with Me Annie" by Hank Ballard.

Yep, that's it exactly.

Maybe runnerdialzero was LOLing because he/she thought I was referring to ILTSDD...

Just have to say you have the most awesome avatar ever . . .

It's Mike doing the chicken noises in a 1964 version of Barnyard.

Wow, that's pretty cool cuz I can't remember hearing about that before;   can you hear him also, or is it just a video clip? 

OK, one more:
Did the main melody of H&V really originate around 1963? What's the backstory on that?

Oh come on.

Is this because of that often misinterpreted quote by Jardine?

I can't recall where I heard that.

I seem to recall someone saying it was on some tapes made at home around the time of "Praise Him" (right title?), but you may be right about the Jardine quote. (Between that and "Worms", he sure gets his SMiLE stuff mixed up, huh?)

NO!  The avatar was from the band playing, "Little Duece Coup" (I think).  Was just joking about the chicken/barnyard thing!

This was quite a few years ago so my memory on it is as shaky as Al Jardine's but I seem to remember a quote circulating that I think was attributed to him which said something along the lines of the roots of Heroes and Villains go back as far as the early 60s or something. But the actual wording suggested what he meant was that the complex harmonies in H&V were anticipated in the earliest harmony work that the band was doing at the beginning of their career.

"....if she had a set of wings, man, I know she could fly....."  Pretty sure that's it.

I thought Rock with Me Henry was on Wonderful, not Vegetables....am I wrong?


My question is:

-Is there a mix that was put together of Worms for LA (Light Album)?

yeah - Donna Summer sings the missing verse vocals!

I think Bruce mentioned they had exhumed it from the vaults for Keepin' The Summer Alive, not LA. I'm not sure that any work was done on it, though. That is a stupid idea too far, even for The Beach Boys!

No, it was LA.

Alrighty then. I think my addled and confused brain lumped it in with the vaultdigging activities on KTSA

No wonder Brian was so secretive about SMiLE for so long, it was to keep it safe from Bruce trying to finish it in the worst way possible.

I think you might be thinking of the vault digging for KTSA for Can't Wait Too Long.

1.  What is the number one reason Brian Wilson abandoned SMiLE?
2.  Regarding the ‘Truck Drivin’ Man’ lyrics sung by Dennis on Cabinessence. Was that section originally heard very clearly (up front) in the song or was it later mixed down behind the "Who Ran The Iron Horse" lyrics by Carl and Desper for the released version on 20/20?
4.  Were the ‘cornucopia’ lyrics seriously considered for the original version of Vegetables?
5.  Was a Heroes & Villains single consisting of part 1 (A side) and part 2 (B side) seriously considered?
3.  Why in Hell weren't the 'Cantina' and 'Three Score and Five' sections used in the released version of 'Heroes & Villains'?
6.   If, according to Brian, 'SMiLE wasn't Beach Boys music', then what was Smiley Smile?
7.   Does Durrie Parks really posess SMiLE acetates?
8.   At the church, did Mike Love?  Was Roger Christian?  Who did Gary Usher?  Did Van Dyke Park?
9.   Why do fools fall in love?
10. What good is the dawn that grows into day?
10. What would we do without Bgas monitoring this thread for excessive questions?

We'd have world peace.

Or whirled peas....

Nah, it'd be just like it is now, one mod overly full of himself, and utter chaos

Bruce mentions DYLW in a 1978 interview (for some reason I'm thinking it was conducted and/or published in Australia, but I could be wrong).  What adds an extra layer of interest is that he refers to it as "Roll Plymouth Rock" .

You got me confused with someone else, mate.  :)

NO WAY!


I have a curiosity of what Smile material was working on and what was done to it between Smiley and before the GV Boxed set was put out.

Obvious evidence is what was put out on Smiley, the layers added on Our Prayer for 20/20, putting together Cabinessence for 20/20 (or was it already linked together?), the Water section from Blue Hawaii added to Cool Cool Water, Carl's vocal overdub for Surf's Up lead plus adding the ending vocals with additional lyrics with "Child tag"...then after that is when I'm puzzled...We know Carl and Stephen Desper worked on putting together a Smile mix in 72 (I believe), Bruce's DYLW comments in late 70s along with Denny's claim to have found the Fire tapes in another interview, possible overdubs for Can't Wait Too Long for KTSA (if you wanna consider that), and Mark Linnet's and/or Brian's work on the material in the late 80s....what was done? are any of the additions/work done to the songs/mixes kept on subsequent releases such as the two-fers, GV boxed set, Hawthorne CA, b00ts, etc.

A Google for the Bruce quote brought me right back to the Smiley Board

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,6867.0.html

And I was kinda wrong about him calling DYLW "Roll Plymouth Rock"

Acetates from November 1966 have the verse/chorus/verse/chorus/tag sequence with all backing vocals and lead vocals on the tag only; I still have doubts about reports of Carl's lead vocal and Dennis' buried "truck drivin' man" vocals being recorded in 1968 as the latter exists on 1966 session tapes and Steve Desper has also noted that Carl's lead vocal was from 1966.


It was reported to be released in 1972, but the work performed consisted of making safety copies of "damaged" reels; many of these safety copies formed the basis for a lot of the bootlegs.


Don't know what was overdubbed onto Worms in 1978-79 under Bruce's supervision, and no tapes have come to light. Dennis' claim of finding the Mrs. O'Leary's Cow tapes came around 1978 or so; allegedly Dennis was the source for the tape given to Byron Preiss around the same time (folks around Preiss deny this), which also became bootleg fodder - the tape contained a Worms acetate from December 1966 (with different vocals on the "Hawaiian tag"), two tracks of Mrs. O'Leary's Cow running 2:20 (with a very obvious edit around 1:55 and no "fire effects") and 1:37 (with "fire effects"), a rough edit of usable Can't Wait Too Long fragments running 6:29, The Old Master Painter (no vocals), and the "false Barnyard" fade from Heroes and Villains (not "Barnshine").


Not Smile, but apparently some work was done in 1979.


Going through available tapes and making rough edits; these ended up on the Vigotone 2-CD set and were later booted from a copy of Mark's actual tape; these included Cool Cool Water and a different edit of Can't Wait Too Long (this did not appear on the Vigotone set).


On the Smiley Smile/Wild Honey two-fer, the Cantina version of Heroes and Villains was sourced from a safety copy of the mix; Brian had destroyed or erased the master copy long beforehand. As far as any of the "additions", if you mean in terms of Worms in 1978-79, as far as I know they have not been aired in any form, including on official releases.

I'll literally slap the sh*t out of both of you.

Someone quick, put that in the form of a question.

What will we do without Joe threatening to slap the feces out of us? :)

We dance! (http://www.skanksuary.com/board/images/smiles/Dance-sk.gif)

The feces-slapping dance (Python geeks should get the reference)!

I don't see how it is relevant considering the titles on the list came from the producer of the album--some guy named Brian Wilson  ;D


Plenty of evidence shows it was not intended for the LP.


Without doubt Smile was going to be an album comprised of 12 distinct, separate tracks with no segues, links or crossfades (save for within "The Elements"). There is no compelling argument to be made contrary to this.

What makes you think Can't Wait Too Long was a Smile track? It was first recorded during the Wild Honey sessions. Was Had To Phone Ya a Smile track because bits of it sound similar to Love To Say Da Da?


I'd love to be wrong but it seems clear no one remembers what Air was.

Thought this was a good thread. Any more questions?

Anybody wanna compile all of these intelligent questions into one list? I'm too lazy to do it.

Didn't Brian make the comment in '76 that it was a "piano piece. We never finished that."?

Thread originator doinnothin offered to do that when he/she originated the original thread…  back to bed Mikie!  ;D

Just waitin' til the 14th in case anyone has more questions. And as reminder the idea was people to offer up one question, so that the poll wasn't so long as to be unenjoyable to read. There are a lot of good questions out there, and I'll try to use my best judgement in sorting through the posts of people who posted more than one, using as many as I can without overloading the poll.

And I'll add one of my own:

Murray Wilson has been quoted as referring to people who mess up their brains with drugs as "vegetables" [Nolan; Rolling Stone, No. 94; "The Beach Boys: A California Saga"]. Was this part of the inspiration behind the song "Vega-Tables"?

Did you guys shelve the project because you thought is was shite? So why will you be releasing it now, then?

Not to play devil's advocate or anything (LOL) but where does this "you guys" come in? Last I checked Brian shelved the project.

Oh, I wrote from the perspective of a naïve news hack, you know, a true Everyman of journalism. That is partly because I passed away three or so weeks ago.

What is that slow, brooding bit in Child all about? Sounds like an expectant father waiting for his son to be born, nervously checking the clock, then we hear the wail of a baby - the birth - in the chorus. Am I totally on the money with that assessment Brian, or what?

My question:

Why do people keep spelling Murry's name wrong?  It ain't that hard to spell!

"Murry-Essence" - the bonus track on the Guatemalan import CD of "The Many Moods of Murry Wilson".

I thought that Murry Wilson CD was from Egypt.  My CD says "Capitol/EMI, manufactured in Bumfuct."

And hey, better that "Murry" is spelt wrong instead of using "alot" in a sentence.  That really pisses off the spelling police.

well ya see, alot of the time alot of people just don't care how you spell Murray; if they did, they probably wouldn't care alot

Plenty of evidence shows it was not intended for the LP.

[/quote]

Can you please share some of that evidence ? I'm not at all disputing it, I just don't know (except it was intended as a warm-up track for the live shows ... was it ever done live by the BB ?), but I do know I love that track!

..........And people who have trouble using correct punctuation and Capitolization.  That really irks the hell outta the spelling police too.

RIP T. HEARTICAL DON NEVER FORGET

Is "Capitolization" something to do with Capitol Buildings?

Thank you. I referred to my avatar, of course.

I would REALLY REALLY like to know the meaning of the phrase "over and over the crow cries uncover the cornfields."

The crow is sadly repeating his plaintive wail that he's starving because his food source has been covered. 
Ya happy now?

Covered by what, you ask?

Fields of marijuana. (cues Bill T)

Yes!  Good observation, Bgas.  I was wondering if someone would catch that.

Several years ago, I wrote to Van Dyke, offering my own interpretation of what the "crow cries" line meant to me. His reply was something like "I wish I had told Mike Love that!"

I'll see if I can find it...