The Smiley Smile Message Board

Just wanted to introduce myself and say how I am astonished at all the great tidbits here.  I thought I knew a few things about the Smiley Smile era. I see now I do not. :)  But after "wasting" hours :)  [ok, i couldn't pull away!]  I now know the mixing board used for Smiley Smile.  I am sure a person with a life wouldn't care. :)  But i find this stuff totally fascinating. Just amazing knowledge here.

My first BB album was shutdown vol 2. my baby sitter gave it o me.  Wore it out, and some of the tracks on there got me interested in recording.  I had no idea about styles or current culture ( I think this was 68?)  so no one told me the BB's weren't cool.  :)  Then I went to the Rexal drug store and picked up Smiley Smile.  Ok, this was a tad different.  Totally did not "get it",  but i really loved it -- whatever the hell it was.  Then Wild Honey, which I loved the organ sounds on the title track.  Then I got into the beatles, who, king crimson, and the BB's were on the back burner.  I was at my friends house, his big brother bought albums (this is how we got exposed to stuff). and we were sitting around on a summer day,  and the Pet Sounds/Carl and the Passions LP package was on the shelf.  Gee, who are carl and the passions? lets put it on...OMG,  I was not ready for the rawness of the first track. And it took me awhile to realize this was the beach boys.  Today, its in my top 10 albums. so much for taste eh? :)    Now If i can figure out how they get the drums so in  your face on Here She Comes, I will be happy. lol.  I have to wonder, who mixed that, My God, lets mix Blondie right out of it!  No room reverb or anything to bring the vocals out a tad. But hey, whatever. I still like it.


I just wanted to add some information here, because I have been overloaded with so much, I would like to contribute some back.  I had some email conversations with Steve Desper
and Carol Kaye.
I bought Steve's Spacializer thing, oh about 10 years ago.  I didn't like the midrange tone it produce, so I emailed him.  We got into a good discussion, and I asked about the CD's that
came out.  He was against  Surfs up and Sunflower because  him or the bb's had no input or got to listen to the mastering or anything.    just a FYI.

A more interesting conversation was with Carol Kaye. I had emailed her about something bass related, we were chatting and Of course I asked about who was playing on the early
records. (didnt have this site then :) ).  I asked her if Carl played the solo on Surfin' USA.  She says no, Billy Strange (he did the theme from the munsters), did it.  So I said,  ok, but
in Musician magazine in (I think 1982)  Carl did a short interview, I think it was on the last page.  And the interviewer asked if he played the solo on Surfin USA.  Carl seemed (from what i remember) was put back and said OF COURSE!.  
I mentioned this to Carol, and she said well, they can't say they don't play on their records because of their image and the "kids".  I said,  yea, maybe back in the early 50's, but not now,
and from all I have seen and heard about Carl, he is not one to boast.  She replied with "I was there".   I saw a post here that she was not even on the scene there until much later.
Although she said she had the AFM sheet for the session.     Just more info.

Jay

Short answer on CK - she's an amazing musician who deserves all the kudos she gets for her studio work.

However...

Her recall is sometimes faulty and her attitude when corrected is deplorable - essentially "I was there, you weren't and how dare you contradict me". She has, of course, also made some highly contentious claims about playing on sixties MoTown hits.

As for the AFM sheet for "Surfin' USA", if she was there then she wasn't listed. Also, David Marks doesn't recall anyone outside of the band playing guitar.

Greetings, Cube Monkey!

Hello and Welcome!!

so what mixing board was used on smiley smile?  :)

This is not really info...its a solidly debunked claim. Sorry Carol is sticking to this as its been clearly shown to be untrue. Forget the AFM...just listen to the session tapes. Carl Wilson and David Marks play the guitars on everything through that period. Carol didn't play on any BB's session until 1/64...a year after SUSA was recorded. This is sad business.

Oh yea, Carol is a great bass player. and i do love her playing on those albums.  as a kid,  that pick bass stood out.  much more to me than the guitars . thats why i became a bass player. :)  that and Mccartney's bass on SGT pepper. 

Also as you all know from the Endless Harmony dvd ( or is it the other one),  Carl is shown on stage in a clip playing it. Actually I can play it. :)
I think this comes down to some people underrate Carl and dennis's playing. I know this has been discussed before.  But even though I like drummers
like billy cobham, bill bruford, Ricky fataar,  I really like dennis's drumming.  I haven't figured out how when I listen to tracks from Wild Honey or
Smiley Smiley still,  it fools me into thinking its a full band, but its like JUST a bass, or bass and piano.  And who doesn't love the extensive flurry
of percussion on Country Air?  Its perfect.  Maybe because I have heard it since childhood and STILL listen. lol

No, I know now Carol's memory isn't good. ahem. i am in my 50's and if you ask my wife...um...lets not go there.  And to her credit, she actually
will answer your questions and stuff. Especially about playing.

WHAT?  YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT MIXING BOARD WAS USED ON SMILEY SMILE?????  (cough).   DOESN'T EVERY ONE KNOW THAT???? :) :)
 ITS a radio broadcast board. a Gates    Duralux 2 channel thing.  It is probably better than the old tube abbey road boards in terms of flexibility. dunno.

She is great. Wondering which tracks on "those albums" you like her playing on?

I like her on the one after 909

I like her playing on basically any of the BB songs.  Not that the parts are complex, but i just like the sound of that bass.  Oh, yea, I like
her playing on the Hogans Heroes theme. she makes the bass sound like a tuba. :) 


 I have never heard her on a jazz record (which is her main focus).  She produced an album  for Joe Pass and played on it. Here is the critics take:

http://www.allmusic.com/album/better-days-r259443    :)

I am betting her instructional material is great. She really wants to help people.  She knows Jass/Bebop theory  which says alot.

But what you're saying is that there is a distinct audible difference between her bass performances on BB's material, as opposed to Brian Wilson's or Al Jardine's or Ray Pohlman's or Lyle Ritz' or Larry Knetchel's or Joe Chemay's or Jimmy Bond's or Joe Osborne's or Ron Brown's or James Guercio's or Blondie Chaplin's or Ed Carter's or the many, many great bass players who have performed on BB's material. Given that, i'm interested to know which songs with Carol's bass stand out in your mind?

Remember, I am talking how the bass sounds.  I'd say Fun Fun Fun,  I get Around to start.  Brian was great of course early on, especially when you hear the live material, i thought he and dennis rocked. 

She's not on "FFF": bass on that is probably Ray Pohlman, maybe Alan.

Not only could Carol's basslines be a multitude of other session dudes, they aren't just Carol by herself - Brian had two or three bassists on a session, for the 'big' stuff.

Nor is she on "I Get Around".  I'm pretty sure Al  Jardine plays Fender bass and Ray Pohlman plays Dano bass on both of those.
To me, the best "Carol Kaye" bass playing on a BBs record (tone-wise) is "Sloop John B.".  THAT'S one where the pick-on-strings attack REALLY stands out.
In regards to the "Surfin' USA" AFM contract:  yes, Carol's name is on it...only thing is, it's not the contract for the BBs version, but rather one of countless cover versions by other people...this one from 1964, a full year after the original BBs recording.

does CK really play on "i was made to love her"? i think i saw that claim somewhere on the internet and it surprised me, from the stripped-down vibe of it i thought wild honey was mostly BBs performances, although i'm sort of illiterate on personnel issues like that so i could be wrong.

Welcome to the board

Seem to remember a CK  about the doors not playing on their own albums :) so the womans memory is not what it should be. Sure they overdubbed the bass because Rays fender keyboard bass was conciderd to weak for recording, except for When the musics over. So Larry Knechtel overdubbed the first album, on the other albums they used session bassplayers, even Jerry Scheff (Elvis old bass player) but its a long stretch saying they didnt play on their own records.

I guess you might have gathered that my point is, like you, many people assume they are hearing Wrecking Crew musicians on the tracks you chose when in fact the Beach Boys are playing 90% of the instruments on those two tracks. The bass on Fun Fun Fun and on I Get Around is Al Jardine and Ray Pohlman. Carol did play on a number of great BB's tracks, but no where near as many as well meaning fans like you might assume. Don't trust the conventional wisdom because when it comes to who played on BB's sessions new research has turned that conventional wisdom on its head.

Yeh, i tend to agree with you here!  The Wrecking Crew were indispensible, GREAT musicians BUT ... they were for-hire.  and in my opinion, most of the Beach Boys' "sound" came from Brian Wilson's production style.  You can even hear Brian on the sessions telling Carol to get more highs on the bass, when to turn them off/on, etc.  The proof is in the pudding; no other '60s records sound like the Beach Boys' ... the same session players appear on countless other '60s hits, many recorded at the same studios, etc.  For instance, you can tell by listening to the records that Brian was not fond of sounds like hi-hats and certain standard elements that you hear on other records from the era ... records like Jan and Dean, etc, using the same musicians.  I think that Dennis' drumming style kind of developed over time to work with Brian's vision and carried through Dennis' entire career with the group.  the Wrecking Crew were great because they knew how to translate Brian's ideas and concepts into something tangible ... and indeed, that is what they were hired for!  They were pros.  But you know what?  So were the Beach Boys.

I had an epiphany when I found out that the boys themselves were the core band on tracks like "Then I Kissed Her" -- I think examples like that track say it all.

Um... none of the band play a note on "Then I Kissed Her". Sorry.

When I transcribed that bassline, I was surprised to find out she was tuned down 1/2 step (or a 'semitone' on the Hoffman board... :-D)  for that session. I just assumed most of those sessions were done in standard tuning for some reason.

There is an audible "punch" on Sloop's bass track that is more pronounced than on similar sessions. I'm wondering if the drop tuning making the strings a little more loose contributed to that sound, and wondering if this was done on other tracks as well.

Soon, you'll learn not to voice your opinion on here, because people will tell you you're wrong, or they'll be pricks about it. As you've probably already seen.

Opinions are fine. Debunked myths are not.  :)

It's better to be told "You're wrong" than to go through life believing something that isn't true. I've been corrected numerous times on this site - and I'm glad I was corrected.

Man oh man, got up on the wrong side of bed, eh?

Dennis played the drums on And Then I Kissed her!

Listen to the Warmth Of The Sun podcasts. Brian attributes a lot of the power of that track to the great drum sound Dennis got.

Andrew, Andrew...stop perpetuating the debunked myths!! Musicians on "Then I Kissed Her" are Brian (piano, bass), Dennis (drums), Carl (guitars), Bruce (organ)

Interesting - AFM sheet I've seen must be for an overdub session. Mea culpa.

No, why?

Hal Blaine on drums on "Fun, Fun, Fun", right?

sounds like it.

Could you be thinking about the April 16th session for "untitled ballad"? I know it's supposed to be a Then I Kissed Her session, but Then I Kissed Her was not exactly untitled at that time, nor a ballad.

Exactly. My bad.

I agree.

And not only that, but Brian didn't always use the same Wrecking Crew musicians on every track. Pet Sounds has a homogenous sort of feel to it, right? But how many different guitarists are there on the album? How many tracks does Hal Blaine (HAL BLAINE!!!) play on on Pet Sounds...? Bet you can't tell just from listening to the album. Well, I can't anyway.

I don't have the credits to hand but doesn't Hal Blaine play on 99% of the tracks on PS - Jim Gordon and Richie Frost are the others credited if my memory is right -

And yes the sounds of those BB recordings with the WC 'sound' the way they do mainly because of Brian's arranging and production skills - but the session musicians were a very major factor in those recording - there  no way Brian could have made those records sound the way they do without the musical abilities of the Wrecking Crew, which ever particular drummer or guitarist etc happened to be there on the sessions.

That said, for example, different drummers have different feels they bring to sessions - one only has to reference the Steely Dan albums - Aja and Gaucho in particular - to understand that - Steve Gadd is not the same as Rick Marotta for example - both brilliant but they will play the same song differently and even if they play the same notes it will feel different.

The BB were strictly little league when it came to musicianship on instruments - when it came to singing however - they were champions

99% of the tracks is basically 13 out of 13, so you're saying he's on every track...but i suggest you check those credits...

10 of 13, which my calculator says is a tad under 77%.

Denny played the drums on "That's Not Me" (ironic title, huh?).  Also, Frank Capp drummed on one of the others.

Yes, but it appears there's TWO drummers on the basic track, indicating Denny also drummed...Denny DEFINITELY added some more drumming to the overdubs.

Interesting. Thanks!

that's really not true man!  seriously, using session players was standard in the '60s due to studio time constraints, etc ... the beach boys were more than capable players. 

And again...people have assumed for too long that the BB's didn't play on much of their studio stuff, and its not true. They played on the vast majority of the classic '62 to '65 stuff, Surfin USA LP, Surfer girl LP, Little Deuce Coupe LP, Shut Down vol 2 LP, All Summer Long LP are about 80% the Beach Boys with only a few uses of session musicians, mainly Steve Douglas and Jay Migliori on saxes. But the guitars on those LP's are pretty much all Carl with Carl/Dave on the pre '64 stuff. The drums are usually Dennis with a very few cases of him being subbed for, and/or a few cases where he's augmented by Hal on percussion. The bass is Brian on the first two and usually Al but sometimes Brian after that. At times Ray Pohlman adds a second bass. Keyboards are normally Brian, with Bruce on a few of the '65 things. Starting with Today! there are more session players but still BB's on about half the stuff, Summer Days is probably 35% BB's on instruments. Pet Sounds is the first and really only BB's LP dominated almost entirely by session players. Write it in stone.

and then 15 Big Ones as well as the 80s on, correct?

I think Brian (keyboards) is on nearly all, and Dennis (drums) on the majority of the 15 Big Ones tracks, and Carl plays guitar on several as well. Sorry, I'm no expert on the '80's and beyond.

Yep, welcome to the SS Board!

The whole "The Beach Boys couldn't play their instruments and Carol Kaye/Hal Blaine played on everything" is really just unfortunate run-off from the time when Pet Sounds was the only Beach Boys album that mattered, and the only album really that "anyone" knew from the group and appreciated..... Thankfully those days are behind us, so it's time to move on.....

Credits for each song on the back of the gatefold.

Carl & Al are seriously underrated guitarists. And Denny is a POWERFUL drummer. That's evident just listening to the live stuff, although the guitars are seriously underpowered on the early stuff imo. Especiallly compared to the early 70's....

Funny that the album where they decide to include detailed and minute technical credits had to be 15 Big Ones!!!!!

I first heard that album via a cassette tape a friend made me, and I'd been told Hal Blaine played on the album, and I can remember figuring ALL the drum tracks must have been him.  I remember listening to those big loping drum fills on Back Home and thinking "Man, that's classic Hal Blaine"!!!!

Standing there in 1976 (at age 13) in the record section of JC Penney's at the local mall in North Platte, Nebraska, picking up that album, turning it over and seeing ALL THOSE CREDITS...that's where the obsession began.  To think, all these years later, I'd be assembling the credits for the SMiLE box set...it's a weird (but sometimes wonderful) world!

Lucky for us...your obsession is helping to define Beach Boys history. Congrats and thanks.

well crap!  I DIDN'T KNOW THIS!!!!!!!!!!!   I don't come to this site as a expert, just a fan. so this is great.  Thank you.

Al Jardine played bass? well damn. something else new I didn't know. Its all good!

dang.  ok...well now I have to go lay down and let it sink in. :) :)

Jay ;D

I am guessing Carl on  "I was meant to love her" ?   Only because as I recently learned here,  the BB's retreat after the problems with the record company and they weren't using session musicans?   And I if i remember, Carol said she didn't do any sessions at the house.

I don't think Carol is a create force. You could never compare her to Ray Brown, Ron Carter, Miroslav Vitous.  I heard a PBS interview and she
was excited she came up with the Surfer Girls dum-de-de-de-dum-de-de-de bass line.  As a bass player (among other things) how could you
not with that rhythm. :) :) 

From what I can recall the musician credits are a bit sketchy for Wild Honey. Maybe Bruce played some bass, maybe Al, but there's talk of a (Motown?) session musician called Ron Brown on some of the album at least.

I'm detecting a pattern here. Her first Beach Boys session was many months after the "Surfer Girl" single was recorded. Musicians on "Surfer Girl" - Brian (bass), Dennis (drums), Carl (guitar), David (guitar)

I expected you'd see that and reply! 
Perhaps Carol was referring to "The Surfer Girls" and their recording of "draggin wagon"  ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FpzlVvCN1p8 ) after all they were on the east coast where Carol spent all her time....

I will not click that link!   ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FpzlVvCN1p8 )     :)....I don't think i could take it. :) :)
the title itself says enough. :)

Or....maybe....I....should.....

um, was she banned from this board?  It was  her participation in the Draggin wagon wasn't it?

I was reading reviews on amazon for Wolf Marshall's  Signature Licks for Joe Pass.  Keeny Burrell -- jazz heavy  & now head of jazz studies at UCLA
and some other heavy said this book was great for learning the basis of Joe's style and theory.  She wrote a review,  "He does not understand".  that
took me back.   First Carl, now Wolf. :) :)   

Also, still suprised AL played bass. because when i see him on DVD's it always looks like its his first day after learned some new chords. :)
and on their  first live album, in the intro to Little Duece Coupe, when they say "Al Jardine, on rhythm guitar!" you dont hear anything. AHAHAHAHAHAHA
I do like al though. His stories about regording California Saga and Brian were very funny.

Al was the Beach Boys' original bassist...he played upright on their first single.  Then, when he rejoined the band in '63, it was to take Brian's place onstage, as electric bassist & falsetto vocalist.  Brian obviously wanted to play more piano in the studio, so Al began playing bass on the sessions again, while Carl and Dave continued to handle the guitars.  After Dave left, Carl would play rhythm on the basic track and then overdub the lead.  Lots of their best records were made that way ("Don't Worry Baby" for one).  As Jon said, the session players didn't start to dominate til '65.

First documented BB recording with major Crew involvement was "Why Do Fools Fall In Love", 1/7/64. That's major as in no BBs played on the track.

I stand to be corrected - and doubtless will be - but  I think the first time the name Carol Kaye appears on a BB session AFM is the 12/16/64 session for "Kiss Me, Baby". Prior to this she'd played on several non-BB BW productions, but no BB tracks, despite what she or her site may claim.

I thought it had been established that Carol Kaye played on Wild Honey's "I Was Made To Love Her", whether she said she didn't do any sessions at the house or not. Remember too that at that time, Smiley Smile into Wild Honey, Brian was cutting random tracks at Wally Heider's studio in LA, so not everything we may think was done at the house was actually done at the house.

Is there an AFM contract for the I Was Made To Love Her BB's session?

just an fyi. If i say something, like carol didn't play at the house or whatever -- and its wrong, but mentioned somewhere else here,  I apologize,
I don't get to read everything and I am not an expert.   It would probably take someone like Carol to play the bass on "I was made to love her".

I was listening to Surfin Safari last night, and a picture with david playing guitar and carl on bass. I thought, DAMN IT!, STAY ON YOUR ORIGINAL
INSTRUMENTS!!!!!!  This switching around stuff only makes it more confusing in this forum!  didn't they realize that? :)
And there is a picture of dennis at a early 70ish concert playing a moog.  I wanna say. ok, get off that moog.  either play the drums, or just stand and sing. :) :)   damn it. :)

Well, this is just the thing with The Beach Boys: they really weren't a "band" like most. They were primarily a vocal entity (aside from the Carl/Dave two guitar attack era) of multi-instrumentalists whose entire goal was achieving the best sound/vibe possible in order to serve the material. Who played what was secondary, and for such a major historic group: the utter lack of musician ego is staggering. No one in the band seemed to care what they played on what song/record if if they even played at all.

It was all about the $$.

They certainly weren't f*$king with the formula!

Yep...and guess what, no Carol Kaye. 
FYI, it was indeed cut at Wally Heider's (those of you who own the wonderful 1983 Capitol "Rarities" album should already know this!).

Most of us "KNOW" it; it's the remembering what we know that's the hard part!

Whew! Time for me to meditate....

No Carol Kaye? I'm surprised at that news, I guess I always assumed it was her or maybe someone said it was her...whatever the case thank you for the info! So if it was not Carol, was it Ron or someone else on bass?

I've also been interested in the fact that given those sessions held at Wally Heider's, which was a professional studio, how did they manage to mix those tracks so they sounded like they all came from Brian's home studio? Going from Gold Star to Western is one thing, but going from a living room to a pro studio and emerging with a cohesive sound and texture is actually quite an accomplishment.

Not all the Wild Honey sessions were at Heiders (which makes it even odder, of course).

Gigs & sessions 1967 (http://www.esquarterly.com/bellagio/gigs67.html)

So if it was at Wallys,  I assume *everything* was recorded through SM57's. :)

Let the wind blow had to be recorded "back at the house" :).  They are using some (maybe) omni mic. or a mic up...and we hear...a chair bang.  its become part of the dang song for me as I have heard that bang about 500 times.  And that sounds like an upright piano.  I remember a picture of
carl in the studio in the house, its a rectangular room, and there was an upright, and some other keyboards I think. He was sitting on the floor...smoking.   Mind is drifting. :)   I am sure its very important i remember this. :)

thats why i find smiley smile and WH fascinating.  So much chaos going on and its not a polished super over-produced (to say the least) thing.

That pic - and you're recalling it correctly - was taken a good five/six years later, when the proper home studio was working: for Smiley Smile and Wild Honey, maybe Friends too, it was more a living room studio. Bit of a lash-up jobbie.

The home studio situation is actually one of the more endearing BB myths - the impression gained is that after Smile collapsed, the band never set foot in a commercial studio again until they came back from the Dutch escapade. In reality, although an increasing amount of work was done at 10452 as the studio improved from very basic 8-track to quad-capable 16-track, the following commercial rooms were used:

Smiley Smile - Sound Recorders, Western
Wild Honey - Wally Heider
Friends - ID Sound
20/20 - Bell Sound (NYC), Capitol, Valentine, ID Sound, Western
Sunflower - Sunset Sound, Gold Star, Valentine
Surf's Up - Sunset Sound
CATP - Village Recorders, Sunset Sound

To be completely accurate, I think the only "Surf's Up" session held at Sunset Sound was the attempted remake of "Surf's Up" itself.  From the evidence I've seen, all of the tracks that actually made it on the album were recorded & mixed at Bellagio (the 1966 backing track for "Surf's Up" being the exception, of course).  Unless someone knows otherwise, that is.

I believe it's a detuned grand. 

The only people listed on that contract are the six Beach Boys and Diane Rovell, with no indication of instruments played.  The Sea Of Tunes set includes tape from this session, but my recollection is it doesn't reveal who is playing bass.

He's right, of course.

I think we can narrow it down to one of five.  ;D

As to the highlighted sentence, I think the only person who said it was her was... her.

Would it help if I confirmed that it weren't me?

Do you know that for sure?

It's not on Bellagio 10452 so I assume I wasn't there.

For me, the only total confirmation will be CK saying it wasn't you.

How about if I said it was definitely CK – that way we'll never know.

Two points:

- Add Wally Heider's to the Smiley Smile column for pro studios used by Brian on that album: Not only was the album given a final edit, assembly, and mix at Heider's, but I always got the impression that final touches and overdubs were added at Heider's as well, similar to how the single mix of Help Me Rhonda got its guitar solo at the last possible stage of the mixing process.

- Re: The I Was Made To Love Her AFM contract - I wonder why the instruments played on the session were not listed on that contract? Could this have been just a vocal session, or is this definitely the instrumental backing session? Having not seen the contract I'm just wondering how it was logged.

An AFM contract supplies the relevant info for the American Federation of Musicians to make proper payments to - and pension deductions from - the session musicians. Vocal sessions are the realm of an entirely different organisation (and when I can remember exactly what it is, I'll surely tell you). As for the instruments not being listed, it's not unusual.

I was only considering recording sessions, not editing, assembling and mastering

Do we know if any parts were added - vocal or otherwise - when Jim Lockert talked about the marathon session at Heider's where Smiley Smile was finished up? I thought there was a possibility that some vocals may have been added there too, reading into what he said. Just wondering.

The AFM contracts I have access to are only the ones on Denny Tedesco's website, so I'm going by those. For the handful of Beach Boys AFM sheets reprinted there, Mike Love is listed on the Fun Fun Fun session, and I'm guessing he didn't play anything...yet he's listed there as a member of Local 47, as were the other BB's who turn up on other sessions. And a related session was Valleri by The Monkees where all 4 members are logged on the sheet even though Davy didn't play anything instrumental but sang the lead, and they're members of Local 47 too.

It's confusing to see the vocalists and the instrumentalists listed there and trying to make sense of who-did-what on those tunes. That was my confusion with I Was Made To Love Her as well.

The AFMs list musicians, the session leader and also the contractor (on almost all of Smile, that was Diane. Sometimes Chuck's name turns up, as leader or as a musician. That was simply Brian making sure he got a few more bucks, as both leader and contractor were paid double scale. Thus:

Surf's Up (1/23/67, Western: 3.00pm-6.00pm)

Hal Blaine (leader) - $173.34 ($13.78 pension contribution @ 8%)
Diane Rovell (contractor) - 173.34 (13.78)
Charles D. Britz - 86.67 (6.93)

... and seven other musicians, including Carl.

That's for a standard three hour session. Go over that, and you're in the money: for an 11/4/66 session also for "Surf's Up", which was - for Chuck, anyway -  a four hour gig, he was paid $244.04, or an extra $70.61 for the additional hour (at roughly time and a quarter).

So, if you were leader on say three three-hour sessions a day, before taxes, you'd make $520: half that if you were just a player.

When Mike Love is listed on Fun Fun Fun, and Davy Jones on Valleri, they were only singers as far as I know, and neither played an instrument on the songs. Were their names added just so they could get paid a bit extra, or were some sessions including vocalists too? It's not adding up why Mike as the vocalist would appear on that AFM sheet if he didn't play. Chuck and Diane were handling jobs classified by the union, so their names would be expected to appear.

Also, is the singers' union you were thinking of AFTRA? If so, are the various Beach Boys members of AFTRA too, as vocalists? I don't think I've ever seen that addressed in these discussions.

Did Mike and Davy play tambourine or some other kind of light percussive instrument on those sessions? Did Mike add some "finger-popping" to make it a million seller?

Thank you, AFTRA it is. Mark A. Moore has AFTRA sheets for Jan & Dean. It stands for American Federation of Television and Radio Artists and they represent professional actors, dancers, singers, and broadcasters.

Re: the highlighted phrase... Diane, yes, but sometimes - as on the example I posted - Chuck is listed as a musician. There's no space on the AFM sheet for the engineer to be noted down, which is logical as his paycheck is met by the studio, not the artist/record company.

99.9999%  of the people reading this think who the heck is interested in this kind of stuff?

why WE  are!  :)

If this ever gets boring, I can fall back on golf statistics since i have no interest in golf.   

Never knew Al played bass among other interesting things in this topic alone.

I appreciate all the information.  Very funny about the union cracking down on Phillips studio across the street while  there was no attempt to hide the BB's studio. snicker.

jay

In a lot of cases, AFM contracts for Beach Boys sessions list everyone who was present & contributing to the session (provided they belonged to the Union, of course), hence Mike gets listed when he didn't actually play, but listening to the session tapes, there's a few times where he's sitting in the booth offering comments over the talkback.  Then there's other times when Carl is definitely playing the session even though his name is absent from the contract.  The best way to determine who all was on a given track is to compare the session tape and the contract. 

Wonder how these rates would translate into today's terms. It just makes me wanna take a thousand bucks and go back in time to book some sessions!