The Smiley Smile Message Board

Supposedly Jim wanted to collaborate with Brian on an idea he had about a song. I think he wanted a Wall of Sound type track, but could never get ahold of Brian. (this was after Pet Sounds and probably SMiLE). Im wonderng if anyone else has a Jim Morrison or Doors and Beach Boys story.

I think he was a big Wild Honey fan, which I always thought was cool.

On Morrison's original Elektra press bio, he states he's a Beach Boys fan. He also states that both his parents are dead. Just sayin'.  :)

On the same Elektra bio, Robby Krieger's name is mispelled.  ;D I can't really see Jim getting to heavily into The Beach Boys. Although, the group's 1965 demo tape does seem to have some surf music influences.

I think that the Beach Boys are a subtle influence on the Doors. Possibly more on Krieger than Morrison, though.

Jim l,oved the Beach Boys. That time he revealed his penis onstage was an attempt to top some of Mike's more outlandish stage routines.

The lizard king came to me in a dream. The moon was full, they all were. He looked at me flicked his hair and started to walk off, turned and said "touch me!" "Thats my Wilson tune". I was touched!
Not to touch the Earth would of been a great song for Brian to work on!

Wild Honey's organ playing really reminds me of The Doors. As has been alluded to above I think the band bio in The Doors LP had Wild Honey listed as Jim's favorite album.

The sound of Wild Honey is all over The Doors.

BTW, does anyone have any more info on the original story (about Jim wanting Brian to help him with a song)? That would be the ultimate collaboration, imo.

Just did a quick Google search and found this blog.
http://manson.freeforums.org/jim-morrison-t31.html

If I'm remembering correctly, I believe one of the blurbs in LLVS is about Morrison saying that he prefers the Beach Boys to the Beatles.

An elf appeared to me last night and told me that when Brian wrote My Solution, Jim Morrison was there in spirit.

Dennis and Jim Morrison once got into a fight iirc

The one I can think of is a piece of audio I have on an October 1967 KHJ aircheck tape where Jim Morrison is reading an ad for "Cheetah" magazine which featured an article on Brian Wilson. It's not Jim's own words - he's reading ad copy and it sounds like he just woke up and someone gave him the words to read. :-D

I think Brian Wilson's music was an influence across the board especially when it was new in the 60's. Brian was known around the musician circles for making great sounding records, and whether a few negative quotes from people like Hendrix have been reprinted through the years, Brian had most everyone's ears and respect who was making music in the 60's, and that would have included The Doors.

JIm went to university in Florida, and in L.A. he lived rough on the beach for a while. How could he avoid the music of the BBs? It must have been a constant presence.

There is a well circulated story of Dennis punching out Jim Morrison outside of the Whisky, apparently Morrison was heckling the band on stage and Dennis suggested they take it outside. Eric Burdon was involved in this fracas, I think Ed Roach was there and/or he's one of the orig. sources of this story. Also Dennis' first wife Carole dated Morrison, which may have added to the tension. But Dennis liked the Doors music apparently, he wanted to write music in that vein according to Stan Shapiro. Slip On Through is a nod to Break On Through. There is additional Morrison/Dennis connection. Also the Dave Marks book has a Dave/Doors story from '66.

I remember a quote in which he said that the Beach Boys were the reason he came to California.
Anyway:


Morrison's 1966 Elektra bio

FAVORITE SINGING GROUPS: Beach Boys, Kinks, Love
INDIVIDUAL SINGERS: Sinatra, Presley


Frank Lisciandro, a very close friend of Morrison, said this: But Jim really, really loved the Beach Boys, and he loved Elvis.

After that he goes on about how they went to a Elvis-show in Miami in 1970

You do know that The Doors' first album was recorded over a year before Wild Honey?

Of course Morrison was a Beach Boys fan, anyone in there right mind is. And as far as
Hendrix goes, he was referring to the fact that Dick Dale was ill in the hospital at the time, hence "you'll never hear surf music again..." Hendrix's 2 biggest influences were Chuck Berry and Dick Dale.

Do you remember where you saw this? Was it interview or print? I have read and seen interviews but never saw this or maybe it went by me. Thanks.


edit: The reason I ask is that guitarfool2002 is correct that it is has become a negative commentary on surf music. One little statement in a song taken out of context and had an entirely different meaning, but had obvious influence.

I'm wondering if this is simply apocryphal? I've heard Dick Dale himself tell this story and it's possible that he had assumed Hendrix was referring to his illness. Dale himself did a cover recording of Hendrix's "Third Stone From The Sun" a while back in which he spoke at the beginning "Hey Jimi, I'm still here...wish you were". The bottom line is: regardless of whether Hendrix meant the line as a cryptic message regarding Dale, he was an admirer of Dale's guitar playing and I doubt Hendrix intended the line to be boastful or dismissive.

http://www.surfermag.com/features/king-of-surf-guitar-dick-dale-%E2%80%9Cyou%E2%80%99ll-never-hear-surf-music-again-that%E2%80%99s-a-big-lie%E2%80%9D-%E2%80%93-jimi-hendrix/

found it... Dick Dale Interview and in case the link goes away:

"I had never missed a gig in my life, and I had a temperature of 104, and I couldn’t even talk…and had got hit real bad with rectal cancer. Jimi was recording in the studio and said, “I heard Dale did a no-show. That’s not like him. You know?”

His guitar player said, “No man, he’s dying.”

They had given me three months to live.

Then Jimi said, “You’ll never hear surf music again.” And then he said, “I bet that’s a big lie. Let’s pack up, boys, and go home.”

That was the full f–king sentence."

I doubt it too.. but I do remember people taking it that way.. as a dismissive... or a thing to knock surf music. The line is a sign of respect... wish I was armed with that bit o' knowledge when I heard the knock.

I was thinking of the interview - I don't recall where it was - where Hendrix commented on Heroes And Villains with this statement: "Don't much care for the Beach Boys. They remind me of a psychedelic barbershop quartet."

 I've seen that quote reprinted to suggest Hendrix wasn't a fan in general, where obviously as shown above the story with his "...never hear surf music..." was blown way out of proportion through the years (and several books too). I can't think of any other comments from Hendrix suggesting he liked or disliked the band, but that one about Heroes is the one I had in mind. Maybe someone can step in and find some more quotes from Jimi.

Hendrix is insane, imo, for referring as psychedelic barbershop as anything other than a good thing

that quote seems pretty definitive.

The book Wild Child by Linda Ashcroft has the excerpt in it.  I believe this was shortly after Light
My Fire made The Doors big.


"I had this thought, you were saying how you had this piece of music - Gershwin rock and roll, I just heard Pet Sounds at a friends house, now, I know your not into all that lush sound, but if you listen to the backbone it sounds to me like Wilson was breaking the rules to great effect. Maybe you dont need someone classicaly trained to get the music out of your head, so much as another genius rule breaker. When Jim didnt say anything.. i said "why dont you call Brian Wilson up?..Jim laughed and snorted and said "Honey, theres noway Brian Wilson will take my call. We arent on the same level of the music business"

Later Morrison said "The guy has a wall of people around him..I cant reach him..the great pang in my heart is you know I bet he would understand what im trying to do. We might have made music history"


Who knows if the chick Jim was talking to was being truthful in the book or not. Theres no way to really know for sure.

That was taken from a weekly feature  in Melody Maker - I think, UK music press for sure - where a star was played the weeks releases blind and asked for their comments.

NME I think... and requoted by Nick Kent in the famous Smile article (which got you started!)

I think we just have to accept that Hendrix in 67 was in a very different place to the BBs (different planet, in fact) - and his career had just begun... also there was a fair amount of self-defensiveness relating to his relative non-acceptance in the USA compared to his huge early success in Britain.

You be right. Thanks for the correction. For some reason, even though I know the dates the albums were released, in No One Here Gets Out Alive I could've sworn it said that The Doors LP came with a band bio and Jim wrote that he really like the album Wild Honey - thus my confusion.

Well then, visa versa - there's a great deal of Doors sound on Wild Honey.

I'm sticking my chin out a bit calling myself a little of a previous doors expert. As far as i recall he liked the beach boys but i do not think he ever had a serious interest to work with them.  Jim was a crooner and dug Elvis and blues bands. Either way a mutual songwriting quest would most likely ended in a terrible state, Jim was not a nice person to hang around with drunk and he certainly didn't like anyone to tell him what to do.

How would that collaboration have been titled?

The Beach Doors?

The Door Boys?

At any rate: indeed, persons who aren't interested in psychedelic barbershop have no taste.  :woot

I thought the "barbershop" quote might have been from a listening room type of interview, so thanks for the clarification! That one quote was his reaction to the Heroes single: it is a definitive statement, but Heroes wasn't exactly a well-received single across the board at the time and his reaction may mirror that of a lot of other folks who didn't catch on to the new sounds on that record. Or maybe he simply didn't care for the Beach Boys! Either way, until we can find more quotes to either support or disprove the notion that Hendrix wasn't a fan, that quote will stand as what it is.

Remember Hendrix also slammed the Monkees in the press, saying something like "Oh God, I hate them!" in an interview. Then he connected with Micky Dolenz at Monterey who invited Jimi to tour with them...that ended in a PR mess but Hendrix got exposure from that tour, may have gotten a radio single and publicity from that tour, and was hanging with the likes of Micky, Peter Tork, and Peter's friend Stephen Stills whom Hendrix had a close friendship with...after saying he hated the band.

I guess that he just hated records with no guitar solos in them (see: Occam's Razor)

I wonder if Brian would have taken his call

I feel that he wouldn't. IMHO Morrison had a dark side to his personality, not comparable to Brian's personal problems. I always have believed that Brian sought for the simple things in life, that make one happy. On a number of fronts he did not succeed. But he has nothing of that 'dark prince' personality that Morrison had, that pompous and also pathetic side ("I'm a real poet, me"). Morrison and Wilson wouldn't have matched, but they wouldn't have supplemented each other either.

Well said, Jim would have scared Brian  :hat

Given all that, then, how do you equate Brian recording Manson in his home studios?
Morrison would seem, at least to me, a little brighter.

Agree about Manson. I tried to bring that up but it got lost in the above quote. Manson and family were a handful at the Wilson household, but Brian did record with Manson several times. Supposedly even alone, which is frightening itself. Not sure if any of that music has ever surfaced. 

The saying "a cold day in hell" comes to mind.

This saying seems to be getting used frequently, lately. Does that mean it's warming up?

Two words: Chinese Democracy.

Not alone... and none of that music has ever surfaced, or ever will if certain people have their way. Charlie recorded some tracks at the home studio - that's a well-known/documented fact.

Yeah, well, I'm not trying to steer this thread down the Manson path; Just sayin Morrison would seem to be bubbling effervescent person compared to Manson. 

Morrison was very dark.. the yin to the beach boys yang, he once said he killed a man in the desert. He made a few outrageous claims!

Both Morrison and Manson loved to hear the sound of their own voices and were obsessed with Indians and the desert. They probably would have hit it right off.

"Not alone"

With Carl, right?

The difference between Morrison and Manson is that Morrison's personality is MUCH more interesting than Manson's, which is saying a lot because Manson's a total enigma, like Robert Johnson. Jim was very good at romanticizing himself and his personality, and to an extent that shows in the Doors' music and especially in their concert appearances. And I'd say that the three people still alive today who knew him best would agree that Jim was a good man.

True, but then many who have known Charlie would vouch that he is a good man also.

Really good thread.

Nice black humour... but anyway: it didn't take much to be a more interesting persona than Charlie Manson. Manson wasn't only a textbook sociopath IMHO... he was something of a blank slate. I can't recall one single interesting act or remark of the man. In this aspect he somehow reminds me of the gang of Nazis that surrounded Hitler. Perhaps Hitler himself. People who added nothing to society. The famous journalist, poet and writer Karl Kraus once said: 'Zu Hitler fällt mir nichts ein' ('Hitler evokes not a single response in me'); and that is a pretty deadly statement. Philosopher Hannah Arendt wrote at the time of the trial against Nazi criminal Adolf Eichmann in Israel about 'the banality of evil'. That phrase has about the same content as Kraus'.

Manson and his cast of idiots had nothing to offer. Jim Morrison had much to offer. That that was not to my personal taste is not very interesting.

Manson offered free naked, eager,  and often teenaged female flesh- the most potent drug there is to a young male.  That the "golden penetrators" and their friends bought the Manson "submission is a gift"  brochure that went with it is unsurprising.

I find everything about Manson - the good, the bad and the hypothetical - fascinating. Sorry to derail the thread!!

Helter Skelter really is essential reading

Helter Skelter is a great read but it must be viewed objectively. It reads better after having read some of the other Manson books out there to counter balance Buglosi's outrageous theories. As a document to the court proceedings it is second to none, but it certainly should not be viewed as the be all end all document on the Manson Watson murders.