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Just thought I'd give you a heads up

On June 15, the UK music mag MOJO will be publishing a special edition which feature "the full story" of Smile along with a coloured 7" single

The ad in this months mag uses the original lettering

The single has Cabin Essence (3:30) and Wonderful (2.03) on it and may be yellow vinyl

The label bears the Brother Records imprint and the following

Produced and arranged by Brian Wilson
Lyrics by Van Dyke Parks

From the forthcoming Capitol reissue The SMiLE Sessions

Mix produced by Alan Boyd and Mark Linett

Maybe we are closer to it than we thought

Just saw this ad myself - can't wait until June 15th now!

Judging by the track lengths maybe we can surmise that the Smile sessions will feature the existing mixes of Cabinessence and Wonderful?

Maybe....

Ooh, will have to pick this up!

OK, so that's next year's Nobel Prize for Physics done and dusted, as the people at Mojo have evidently constructed a working time machine.  ;D

Would be nice it it was Dom's box set essay... but I doubt it, some how.

Sweet. Pretty sure Barnes and Noble here imports Mojo.

Interesting on the Cabinessence time. That's about 5 seconds shorter then the song usually is. Reconfigured or earlier fade?

woo!  i'll have to go in and ask the release schedules at my barnes and noble.

Can anyone fill me in on the following?

- A Mojo issue published on June 15 will be labeled as what?  The "July" issue?  "August," perhaps?

- Approximately when can we expect to see this on U.S. newsstands?

FYI, for those us who won't be able to find this on newsstands, it seems that it's possible to order individual Mojo issues by mail for GBP 6.50.
For example...
http://www.greatmagazines.co.uk/store/displayitem.asp?sid=5355&id=43945

They don't show that particular issue on their website yet. The newest one is Bob Marley.

Didn't mean to imply that the Smile-related issue could be ordered yet.  Just was pointing out that it will be possible to order it that way when it's available.

I don't think this will be the typical monthly issue, but rather a special spin-off edition devoted to 60s music hence the title "mojo 60s". Presumably the main feature will be a story on the smile sessions.

If one of you could scan and post a copy of the ad, well, that'd be awesome.
Hint... hint...  ;)

Oh, I know. I was just letting people know in case they were gonna check it out  :)

Yeah, pretty sure it's one of the special ones. I think they just had a David Bowie one out not too long ago.

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-lEF4FNm-pug/TdkWYXTtpBI/AAAAAAAAAbk/F1YuYOKMba0/s1600/mojo%253Asmile.jpg)

Hell yes.

Sweet, I'm gonna ask my parents to pick me up 2 copies.

Does anyone know why Safe and Sane Music (VDP's current publishing company) receives credit on Cabin Essence? 

The 20/20 version was part of Sea of Tunes and is totally owned by Irving Music according to BMI.  http://repertoire.bmi.com/

How does one find this?  I went to MOJO and couldn't find any links to this issue

ah. that'll be a pain in the ass to get in the states i bet.

Whether this cover is real or not, notice the sunshine reference? No matter what the band releases, pigeon-holed Summer Sunshine band image just will never die. Oy!

I'm just guessing that perhaps songwriting and publishing credits have been re-negotiated since the BMI listing for the song, which reflects how the song was credited in previous years. I'd guess the potential amount of royalties they're assuming will be made on the release of this set may have triggered some negotiations among the songwriters and publishers so everyone felt they were getting their due if and when the sales start rolling in.

Again I'm just guessing on Van Dyke's stake in this deal, but I'm still surprised by that list of songs Mike Love was owed back credits for which AGD posted here a few weeks ago. I had no idea it was that many!

 ;D ;D ;D

So exciting

I'm definitely looking for that issue of Mojo! My go-to place for import mags like that used to be Tower Records, so I'll definitely try Border's or Barnes And Noble at this point even though many of them have closed shop too.

So much for bookstores becoming irrelevant in the age of the digital pads! Very cool to see this...

Barnes & Noble will probably carry it. And Border's Books, if you can find one still open.

Edit: You beat me to it, GF! I was gonna put the Tower blurb in there, but didn't see it as worthwhile. That use to be my main source too, now I have to hope a brick and mortar record store carries it if Barnes or Borders doesn't.

Nice to see Mojo giving SMiLE some love. Rolling Stone better do the same, but then again MOJO Loves Brian, I bought this great edition off ebay a few months back

(http://991.com/newGallery/Brian-Wilson-Mojo-447119.jpg)

Okay, now this credit could apply to the whole SMiLE SESSIONS release, but if it is meant to apply specifically to the two tracks...well, that would suggest that they are newly mixed, right? Mark did the original mix on the GV Box Set version of "Wonderful" on his own, I believe, while "Cabinessence" was the 20/20 mix unchanged. By crediting the mix to both Alan and Mark here seems to suggest that they will not be the exact same versions previously heard.

Assuming that disc is the real deal, note the old-school Brother label.

I don't have the March 2004 issue pictured above but I do have sitting proudly in the archives the Feb. 2002 issue, "Missing In Action" special which had a fantastic Smile spread including some great color photos...complete with a fantasy fanmix tracklist by Rob Chapman and some common mis-information like screenshots from the "Mrs. O'Leary's Cow" and "Do You Like Worms" promo films which were nothing of the sort...but in 2002 I guess that was still the story and they were sticking to it...just like labeling something "Earth Chant" for lack of more info at the time.

I paid over 10 bucks for that at Borders back in the day, and despite the since-debunked myths it was worth it for a Smile fan. Great articles in there about the "Get Back" sessions, the lost John Fogerty and Prince albums, the disappearance of the Manic Street Preachers guy, etc.

MOJO has a grand history with promoting Smile on their covers, I'll definitely not miss out on this one when it shows up for sale here.

I'll check Borders... if my local Borders can have FOUR different magazines about "Doctor Who", they can have an English music mag. :-P

All I'll say to you folks in the states is there's currently no info on the Mojo site about this 'Mojo 60s' edition so don't expect to order it from any bookstores yet. Presumably they will put information online soon and then you may have more joy.

Worse case if it isn't available outside the UK for any reason (which I very much doubt) I'll scan all the Smile pages and post here. (Won't be able to do anything about the 45 though, obviously).

And why choose these two songs?

Why not Heroes & Villains?

Are they keeping back a big surprise here?

I would think (hope) that these mixes will be markedly different. Why else tease people with two songs most fans have access to already?

I think this is precisely why. We're all going to think "Wow, if these two old chestnuts sound this good / different, then what will the rest sound like?"

Or this could all be wishful thinking on my part again.

I'm also forgetting the recent H&V 78. What version was that again?

I think the "Mix produced by Alan Boyd and Mark Linett" line, refers to the box in general, as does the "Executive Producer Dennis Wolfe" line. However I was wondering about the chance of new mixes. I really don't want to get my hopes up because my head is telling me, based on the track lengths, that we will get the existing mixes. Also would they really use a Mojo spin off magazine to preview anything too mindblowing? That said, there's a chance Mark may have flown in parts to Wonderful such as the yodel BVs, and this potentially would not impact on the track length, or other, more subtle alterations could've been made to the mixes that would not impact on length.

For anyone who's interested here's the exact info printed on the 45 in the ad:

Brother Records

The Beach Boys

Side A - this side
Cabin Essence - 3.30
Brian Wilson / Van Dyke Parks
Irving Music (BMI) / Safe & Sane Music (ASCAP)

Side B - other side
Wonderful - 2.03
Irving Music (BMI)

Produced and Arranged by brian Wilson
Lyrics by Van Dyke Parks

From the forthcoming Capitol release "The Smile Sessions"
Executive Producer Dennis Wolfe
Mixed and Mastered by Mark Linett at Your Place Or Mine Recording
Mix Produced by Alan Boyd and Mark Linett

Length of "Wonderful" from the 1993 box set disc 2 ? Two minutes and three seconds.  ;D

"Cabin Essence" from the same disc is 3.34, but after 3.29 it's essentially silence.

As you said, "most fans" - even your average Mojo reader probably hasn't heard the original Smile version of "Wonderful"

Way to go, Buzz Killington  :lol

:lol Have to say, AGD's sober assessment of the likelihood of new mixes is probably spot on.

Also, when my hopes start going though the roof for this upcoming release I have to keep reminding myself of adamghost's post from a few weeks back where he spoke to Alan Boyd and cautioned us to keep our hopes in check. I think if we're lucky there may be one unbooted find on this boxset at most, but I very much doubt we'll get much beyond that. Whether M.Linett chooses to rejig his existing mixes from the GV box is anyone's guess but as far as this yellow vinyl goes I think it's going to be familiar territory.

Let's hope there's some fresh info inside the pages though!

"Side A - this side
Cabin Essence - 3.30
Brian Wilson / Van Dyke Parks
Irving Music (BMI) / Safe & Sane Music (ASCAP)

Side B - other side
Wonderful - 2.03
Irving Music (BMI)

Produced and Arranged by brian Wilson
Lyrics by Van Dyke Parks"

Could that suggest that there are some prev unused VDP lyrics in this version of Cabin Essence?

We already discussed that - probably something to do with a rejigging of publishing rights to VDP's current company.

I wonder if Mojo runs a month behind here in the U.S.? I think when Mojo ran the article on Brian and Smile in 2004, I had to wait to get a copy.

Or could it suggest that VDP has changed the name of his publishing company ? That said, it does seem S&SM existed in 1967.

The cover says Mojo '60s, is this a different magazine than the regular Mojo, or does it just say that because it's a theme issue?

For what it's worth, the order of the two songs (A Side/ B Side) is the same as the track sequence on BWPS  ;D

Mojo does a quarterly special on a particular era / band - looks like this will be the new special. In the UK they are slightly more expensive than the standard Mojo - about £7...

Doubt it

Nice spot!  ;D

Coincidence maybe, but perhaps another indicator of the looming presence of BWPS over this box ...

Well... yes, but why only Cabin Essence and not Wonderful?

Yes but as we all know length don't mean diddly

That said I expect them to be much better quality versions of what we already know and love

...which was plainly stated by ML in his interview - BWPS = template

Yes apologies - I don't actually know what my point was above. This upcoming Smile box has me waffling like no other BB related event so far!

Me toooooo !!!!!

Re: The credit for Van Dyke's publishing company "Safe And Sane".

The current ASCAP listing of Smile related song titles logged under Safe And Sane music admin. by "Bughouse" in Los Angeles looks like this:

Barnyard
Child Is Father To The Man
Do You Like Worms
Fire
I Love To Say DaDa
I'm In Great Shape
In Blue Hawaii
On A Holiday
Roll Plymouth Rock
Song For Children


No listing for Cabinessence, which surprises me. Some of those titles are also more BWPS-centric than Smile 1966-67 as will appear on the box set. I speculated a few pages ago that *perhaps* some credits were renegotiated for this upcoming release, but I'd think the ASCAP list would reflect that as it doesn't take too long for additions or changes to appear, at least in my experience.

Hmmm.

Interesting that both 'I Love To Say Dada' AND 'In Blue Hawaii' are on that list.... unless he wrote the 'Hah-Wahs'  ;D

According to the back of the CD jewel case, the following songs carry a VDP/Safe & Sane credit:

Roll Plymouth Rock
Barnyard
Cabin Essence
Song For Children
Chil Is Father Of The Man
I'm In Great Shape
On A Holiday
In Blue Hawaii

"H&V" is assigned to Irving Music as is "Wonderful",  "Wind Chimes" and "Vega Tables": "Surf's Up" carries only the composers names (according to BMI it's assigned to Brother Publishing and Crow Cries Music, which has the same address as Bug Music), and of course "Mrs. O'Leary's Cow" isn't a VDP collaboration at all (interestingly, it's assigned to BriMel). The "Fire" you found is - as you's see if you looked a little deeper -  from the movie The Adventures Of Ociee.

This is confusing...Cabin Essence absent from ASCAP's database yet credited on the album list, "Fire" credited to Safe And Sane on ASCAP but "Mrs. O'Leary's Cow" is BriMel, Do You Like Worms credited on ASCAP but not credited on the album. Is it the same "Fire" or a different solo VDP track?

Were the credits dating back to 1966-67 listed in such a haphazard way to create this kind of confusion or are we missing something underneath these credits? Not that it's a major issue or anything but it is interesting why some of these things look the way they do, especially one of the centerpiece songs like Cabin Essence.

Hello... did you read what I said about the VDP "Fire" you turned up ?

Also, "Cabinessence" is assigned to Irving, according to BMI. I'm thinking... typo.

Know why the credits are a mess ? Because the situation was a mess back then, and if it wasn't for the work of Diane, it would be more of a mess.

I see it now but I did not see it on the original answer you posted, otherwise I wouldn't have asked about it. I figured that was the deal with Fire. If you added information to a post minutes after I replied to it, I wouldn't have seen it short of having an alarm go off. ;D

That typo, if that's what it is, may cost someone thousands of dollars unless it's just a listing typo and the real paperwork is accurate. Looks like the situation is still a mess. :)

To be more precise, a typo on the album credits - the listing is correct in the BMI files. Looks like it's not only the lyrics of BWPS that weren't proofed too well.  ;D

Don't worry, I'm sure all you lot stateside will get to hear the single by, ooh, I don't know, June 15th?

For the most part, the credits seem to follow these basic rules...

(1) The songs that were originally released in one form or  another in the '60s (H&V, GV, WC, Wonderful, Vega, Cab) belong to Irving Music (successor to Sea of Tunes).
(2) Surf's Up belongs to Brother Publishing and Crow Cries (apparently VDP's publishing co in '71 when the song was released)
(3) The stuff that was unreleased or unfinished until BWPS is credited to BriMel and Safe & Sane.

One of the big inconsistencies is the Safe & Sane credit for Cab.  No new lyrics were added for the BWPS version of Cab, yet there's the new Safe & Sane credit on BWPS and on this Mojo 45 (though NOT in BMI's database).  One thing to keep in mind, though, is that at the time of BWPS, VDP raised the issue of missing credits on Wonderful and Wind Chimes with Melinda.  VDP had always been credited on Cab, but let's not forget that, as Mike Love has often complained, Murry often credited Brian's writing partners with much less than 50% of the song (sometimes only 10%).  Perhaps VDP was only down for a small percentage of Cab and had it raised, and hence the change in the credits?  Just a theory...

Sorry, but Linett didn't say that at all. This is what he said:


What this is suggesting is not that they are going to replicate the structure of BWPS. Rather, he is saying here that all the music that is on BWPS can be found from The Smile Sessions (something that the serious Smile fan already knew) and therefore all the music that was on BWPS will also be on the boxset. Now this can mean two things - he is misusing the word "blueprint" or the sentence as a whole isn't coherent. This doesn't necessarily mean that the tracklisting for Disc 1 of the Smile Sessions won't be modelled on BWPS. Maybe it will. Either way, Linett is not suggesting it will in this quotation.

I agree and disagree with your interpretation. When Mark said blueprint, he was talking disc 1 only. So, all of the tracks and segues on BWPS will be on disc 1, but he didn't mention the sequence. This is where I think there could be some differences, especially if they try to reproduce The Elements section. This also seems to mean that Look, Holidays, and I Love To Say Dada will be a part of Smile. We'll see in about 4 months.

Or read in about 3 weeks, perhaps.  I wouldn't be surprised if the Mojo special edition contains a lot of details about will and won't be included.  They're promising "the full story," so we'll see.

If anything, I would hope the Yodellleee--ee--oo vox to be flown in on Wonderful somewhere on the box-set, if not on the initial CD...

More over, what he does mention in the paragraph above the one I posted, is that "We have some rough mixes from 1966, which will probably become part of the quote album." In other words, in answer to Billboard's question, Will BWPS "serve as the guide line for the "Smile" Sessions track listing"?, Linett at the very least says that they will not be exclusively relying on it.

To be fair though, the three paragraphs that constitute a response to that question are really quite non sensical. I mostly blame Billboard - if only because they use the term "segue ways". What the hell is that?

Ha, yeah, Billboard's editorial standards do seem to be a bit lacking. 

Not quite as funny, though, as the UCLA student interviewer who recently misheard Brian's favorite collaborators, "Mike Love, Tony Asher and Van Dyke Parks," as "Mike Love, Tony Hatch and Benny Clark."

its just a hip new way to say it,  like vajayjays

Not to be too obvious but, if one is checking ASCAP and Cabin Essence is listed with BMI, naturally you wouldn't find it

Cabinessence or Cabin Essence could also be a problem when trying to find it. Which spelling.

There is any number of simple explanations why someone might not see it when looking on the internet.

maybe because it came out a few years later on 20/20 and it has a different date. I had a song recently I was trying
to locate throuigh BMI online search and I couldn't because the publishing had been sold to another firm.

I overlooked that rough mixes quote. That, reassuringly, does seem to suggest we won't get a Purple Chick sequence that follows BWPS exactly.

Wait a minute, what do they refer to when they say "little segues" ? Do they talk about the very end of "H&V" ? or the "cantina" intro of "I'm In Great Shape" ? Or the segue between "Child" and "Surf's Up" ? Or the outro of "In Blue Hawai" before the reprise of "Our Prayer" ???

Do they mean that this existed back in 66/67 ? I though these had been written for BWPS ?

All the segues are based on original Smile music, so the segue between H&V and Worms is based on SU, the intro to Great Shape is the Caintina melody and so on. Mark's quote is a little misleading as it suggests those segues (exactly as they were recorded for BWPS) have vintage counterparts, which we know isn't true.

In fact I don't know why he mentions the segues. It suggests that there may be plans to link tracks a la BWPS. Some, such as the link between Heroes and Worms just won't be possible but others are easier. Maybe they'll edit child so that the intro segues into SU. I just don't know. Does seem odd that he'd mention it.

Seeing who's written the 'full story' article (not Dom)... I seriously doubt that.

Or you can do what I did... look for "Cabin Essence" under Brian Wilson on BMI and then see who VDP is assigned to. As for the problem of which spelling, well duh ! - how about trying both ?  People here are trying to manufacture a mystery where none exists. The correct info is readily available on the 'net, and the almost certain answer is that the Safe & Sane publishing credit on the BWPS CD is a typo.

The H&V > Worms is easier than the Child > Surf's Up because these last two are in very distant keys (that's what the 2004 coda stands for, to build a way to arrive on the 5th degree of Surf's Up key).

Maybe something vintage exists for some of those orchestral segues.

In E.G. do the bootlegs really contain all the "orchstral" H&V sections and stuff ever recorded ? I mean the only "full orchestra w/ strings" section we know of H&V is the coda (that ends with woodblocks and the harmonica).

On the "sessionography", the only H&V session that could match with such a large amount of personnel is the Dec, 19, 1966. It says the session lasts 5 hours. Did the wrecking crew needed 5 hours to put 25 seconds of music on tape ? Nah, I'm pretty sure other orchstral stuff has been recorded.  8)

Interestingly, both "Roll Plymouth Rock" and "Do You Like Worms" are on that list. So Al was right after all when he said "That's not Worms!" It was "Roll Plymouth Rock"!  :-D ::)

Good point - anyone else have any more info on this Dec 19 session which happens to be my birthday??

I've found this info on "The SMiLE Shop" sessionography page here: http://www.angelfire.com/mn/smileshop/navpage.html

It seems there have been another "crowded" session for Heroes and Villains  on Feb. 17th, 1967.

But again this is all speculations, I'm sure some members here can tell exactly what's been recorded during each session.

There are a LOT of takes  for 'Western Theme' (that's what you mean, right?) on the boot, and Brian needed to teach a string and a horn section their parts, as well as the myriad other personnel there, so five hours doesn't seem too farfetched. And if that tape has made it into bootleggers hands, why not the rest of the stuff from the session?

Exactly


If I'm not wrong, back in the 60s,  multitrack tape lenght was approx 15/20 mins. I don't know how many takes from "the western theme" have been recorded. But assuming that only 1/5th of the session has been recorded (the rest is just "learning/rehearsing"), that's one hour, that's 3 or 4 reels. Maybe the bootleggers got hands on only one or two of the tapes from this session (I know, pessimistic members will fall on me on that one)  >:D

Five hours for some of them, three and a half for others.

Also, not all were musicians.

Hal Blaine - drums, leader
Diane Rovell - contractor
Arnold Belnick - violin
Harold Benke - ?
Norman Botnick - viola
Charles Britz - engineer
Joseph DiFiore - violin, viola
Jesse Erlich - cello
Harry Hyams - viola
Armand Kapreff - cello
Raymond Kelley - cello
William Kuraseh - violin
Leonard Malarsky - violin
Alexander Neiman - viola
William Pitman - guitar
Emmet Sergeant - cello
Joseph Saxon - cello
Sidney Sharp - violin

I didn't realise Child and SU were in different keys so you're right - wouldn't work.

H&V and Worms are also in imcompatible keys though, hence the link section that was devised for BWPS that is a variation on the 'Brother John' melody fom SU.

Of course there may be a vintage link section to segue H&V into Worms, but I think the chances are pretty small to say the least!

I just think Mark L meant that all the segues are represented in the sessions inasmuch as they are all based on existing Smile songs.

As far as Western Theme goes, its other name is Prelude to Fade, and based on this name, I suspect it was to precede one of the various fades Brian recorded for H&V. Either Tag to Part 1, Barnyard, False Barnyard (Cantina fade, or the re-record with carl's scatting vocals), or the minor key bicycle rider fade as was used on the eventual 45. My guess is prelude to Fade was to be followed by one of the versions of False Barnyard.

This is one of the joys of Smile - what goes where and judging by various fan mixes the permutations are just about endless

Tobias Bernsard did an excellent musical breakdown on the Smile Shop - its the first article under the Essays tab http://www.angelfire.com/mn/smileshop/navpage.html and is very very very good

So far, the "fade" I heard that works best right after the "Western Coda" is the "dumb whistle" ending in a trashy echo. It sounds like something/someone's drowning in the sea (maybe the villains ?) where the Mayflower lands nonchalantly on Plymouth Rock.  :lol

Probably not but I have to ask: Is this a complete list from an AFM sheet? If I'm thinking of the same session as the musicians listed here - the one which ends on a horn player overblowing the last note after the woodblock/harmonica counterpoint - there are a few musicians missing from the contract including harmonica and horn.

And again if I'm thinking of the same fragment of music, Brian at one point on those sessions calls down to Van Dyke who is apparently on the studio floor for the session. I always thought that fragment was one of the best pieces recorded for Smile, just terrific, but then I also thought elements of it sounded more like some of Van Dyke's own film music than Brian's unique sounds. I think there are parts of Smile where Van Dyke contributed musically more than some including Van Dyke might say, whether it happened on this track is anyone's guess.

Van Dyke's on piano, iirc. And yeah, that can't be the full list. Although AFM sheets are rife with discrepancies, so that could explain the lack of a horn or harmonica player. Or bass. And I think I hear Pohlman in there with his deeeeeeep voice,. He also calls out to a Gene, playing the slide whistle and things, not on that list.


Also, the most infuriating thing about the session is that right at the start he says there are going to be vocals on it!  :angry

Maybe the date of 12/19/66 assigned the session you're talking about is wrong ?

I was thinking the same thing: The musicians listed would seem to be for a string overdub or "sweetening" session for a track, since a handful of the key musicians heard playing lead roles on that tape aren't listed.

Of all the sections and fragments of Smile I've heard, the one we're discussing is one of the most awesome little fragments of music I've ever heard. For the record...

Awesome is just the right word

That would most likely be Gene Estes, on percussion, and he'd have a "bag of tricks" like bells and whistles on a session just like Hal Blaine demonstrated his slide whistles and other noisemakers which he used on Pet Sounds and Smile. Very cool stuff. Here's a photo of Brian with Gene (smoking a cig in the middle) playing mallets at Gold Star near the end of the Smile sessions, and I lightened the photo but still can't identify the man sitting in the chair to the far right of the shot.

(http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n295/guitarfool2002/geneestesgoldstar.jpg)

It's certainly wrong, I've droped that date due to the amount of musicians it counts and your list tells most of them are strings players. The only H&V section I know with so much strings in it is this "Western Theme". So it was my conclusion it's been recorded during this session. Harmonica, bass and the big ending horn could've been overdubbed later maybe ?

The session tapes have all those musicians in the studio at the same time, so those parts were not overdubs. However, there are other Heroes fragments with strings, including the "Barnshine" fade-out bit where the strings are playing pizzicato rather than bowing, and a few others including the one where Carl is scat-singing over the track. I'm thinking the dates got mixed up or the session listed was for one of the handful of other Heroes bits with strings.

And notice the two old-school mics being used in that photo: EV666 dynamic and RCA 78 ribbon. I love those studio photos, and I hope the upcoming box set has some we haven't seen! And you also don't see that angle of that studio room in photos too often - the control room is behind Gene, the clock hanging over it. Too bad you can't see who was hanging out in there through the glass.

Well, given it's Gold Star and the clock says 4.20pm and Gene Estes is there, the session could be:

11/28/66 (Fire); Lyle Ritz, Diane Rovell, Arnold Belnick, Norman Botnick, Joseph DiTollio, Jesse Erlich, Gene Estes, James Gordon, William Green, James Horn, Plas Johnson, Carol Kaye, Lawrence Levine, Leonard Marsky, Jay Migliori, Alexander Neiman, William Pitman
11/29/66 (Great Shape/Friday Night): William Pitman, Diane Rovell, Gene Estes, James Gordon, Carol Kaye, Lawrence Levine, Lyle Ritz
5/16/67 (Love To Say Da Da): Hal Blaine, Dianne Rovell, Gene P. Estes (bells, Perc. Piano), James M. Hilton, William Pitman, Lyle Ritz, Michel Rubini
5/18/67 (Da Da): M.R. Pohlman, Dianne Rovell, Frank A. DeVita, Gene P. Estes, William E. Green (piccolo and whistle), James M. Hilton, Jay Migliori (Piccolo and Whistle), William Pitman, Bass and Gut String Gtm.), Melvin Pollan, Michel Rubini (maybe - no time given)

Looks like Hal on the left, so if it is,  that cuts out the 5/18/67 and 11/29/66 dates and "Fire" too. Looks like May 16th 1967.

That sounds like the one: May 16th! Listed on that date is "James M. Hilton": he was an engineer at Gold Star who worked on the Buffalo Springfield album at Gold Star, among other credits. Taking a wild shot in the dark and not having another photo of Hilton in front of me, I'll say that *could* be the guy sitting in the chair to the right. Pure speculation.

Wow, it's my birthday too. Hardly worth a reply just for that but there you go.

Who's written it?   I haven't heard...

May 16th, two days before it all ended!

it coud be worse.... I was born on May 18th.... the day that it all ended (and not the 21st of May 2011  ;D )

I think there is. Bridge To Indians, on the H&V sessions CD. Usually it's the familiar rising vocal line, but there is one version that then goes into a chord, that links perfectly into Worms . And Worms was about indians, or mentions them.

I used it on my mix of H&V, and it works just fine.

LLVS p.222 claims the guy on the left to be Bill Pitman and dates that pic to Jan 25 1967. Were Pitman and Estes at the Jan 25 session?
However, it says that picture was taken at Western, while it is clearly the same studio as in the picture next to it where it says "Gold Star". So the claim Jan 25 1967 seems very unlikely for that photo.

But if it is true that the guy on the left is not Hal Blaine but rather Bill Pitman, it could also be the Friday Night session which does feature a vibraphone.

On the same page there's a photo with a bearded Brian that is claimed to be May 18. Did Brian wear a beard in May 1967? If so, it couldn't be the Dada sessions.

Really hard to find the truth, ain't it?

Exactly. That's Gold Star, not Western, ergo the 1/25/67 dating (which was a Jasper Dailey session, btw) is wrong.

But what about the guy being Bill Pitman instead of Hal Blaine? I found no pictures of Bill Pitman, but I think it may not be Hal Blaine after all.

Here's some 1967 pictures with a bearded Brian which I hadn't seen yet (in the car and on the sofa). Brian did wear a beard in July 1967, as it seems:

http://www.gadflyonline.com/05-06-02/ftr-epiphany.html

1959 - you???

Um... I was just pondering this: we're getting two new mixes songs that offer, apart from their sound, nothing we don't already know. Then: it is a mere 3 weeks until that MOJO will appear.

Wouldn't that box set have been advertised by now, if it were to follow in that single's footsteps? Or is it possible that the staff decided to highlight the Beach Boys and SMiLE, because the Sessions are a real event (so putting The Group on the cover sells extra issues)?

My question: is there a clue anywhere that the box will appear earlier than October? Or is it our collective pipedream?

Aren't August and September the two dates in the frame at the mo - or did I miss something

There are always clues. The trick is knowing where to look, and recognising them when you find one.  ;D


We are ?  Care to share with us how you've divined this from nothing more than a photo of the single and a few lines of text ? My distinct impression is that we're getting the 1969 version of "Cabinessence" and the 1993 box version of "Wonderful", granted based on the same info as you have to hand.

Yes most likely - but a. we won't know until we've heard them and b. where in the box set they actually fit (the album or the sessions)

The single's label says "Mix produced by Alan Boyd and Mark Linnett", but that of course could mean nothing.

Well, this is what I was going by.

IIRC doesn't Brian say something like "a little slower for vocal reasons please". Though this could imply vocals were intended it could mean it was to be joined to a slower vocal section. I once edited the  verse  "I've been in this town so long so long to the city" etc. cut this piece so prelude to fade starts on villains (by the heroes and ...prelude to fade) and then added the false barnyard after prelude. works quite well in my opinion.
My big wish for this release is the long feb/march heroes (poss from acetate ?) and an earlier heroes/great shape/barnyard. I don't hold out much hope for anything else new or significant unless Bruce/Alans/Durrie's acetates reveal something .
Anyone know if Brian has a collection of demos and acetates or have these been lost over the years ?

This is the info from the ad:

Brother Records

The Beach Boys

Side A - this side
Cabin Essence - 3.30
Brian Wilson / Van Dyke Parks
Irving Music (BMI) / Safe & Sane Music (ASCAP)

Side B - other side
Wonderful - 2.03
Irving Music (BMI)

Produced and Arranged by Brian Wilson
Lyrics by Van Dyke Parks

From the forthcoming Capitol release "The Smile Sessions"
Executive Producer Dennis Wolfe
Mixed and Mastered by Mark Linett at Your Place Or Mine Recording
Mix Produced by Alan Boyd and Mark Linett

The 'mixed & mastered' part obviously refers to the whole project, and of course all the previous releases will be remastered.

This is from 11/29/66 (Great Shape/Friday night).  Dude on the far left is Bill Pitman.  Dude on the far right MIGHT be Jim Gordon.

Excellent. Many thanks. ;D

I'm almost sure that's not Jim Gordon - this is what he looked like at Gold Star in the winter of 66 the same year as the photo we're discussing:
(http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n295/guitarfool2002/Blog%20Post%201/jimgordontest.jpg)

That guy in the chair might be a studio employee, a music copyist, or anyone we haven't heard of because the musicians listed on that date would be easy to pick out and it's none of them.

Good call on Bill Pitman: It's funny but his side profile looks like Hal Blaine, and the guy in the photo is playing mallets while Pitman was a guitarist, bassist, and tic-tac bassist for most of the sessions. I saw a similar photo if not the same one posted elsewhere with the date May 67, so when AGD targeted that date I thought it sounded right. The fact it's not Hal but looks like Hal changed the game and we have the 11/29 date.

Steve Korthof, maybe ? (Not Parks, or Grillo...)

 ;D  Possibly!

Are there any period photos of him or even Arnie Geller we could check out? The guy looks a bit like Robbie Robertson to me.

Great, thanks! Looks like I guessed well!  :)

This also gives a good chance that the photos with the bearded Brian are indeed the Dada sessions then.

This is a Gold Star photo of the bearded Brian - I lightened it up to better see Lyle Ritz with the bow in the background. If Lyle is there, based on AGD's list posted earlier, this might be (or is) the May 16th 1967 session at Gold Star (apologies in advance if this same photo appears with a date elsewhere!):

(http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n295/guitarfool2002/brianbeard.jpg)

LLVS ! page 228 says May 18th... but of course the presence of Lyle in the photo means that's wrong.  :)

Actually, I think the guy I said MIGHT be Jim Gordon looks an awful lot like the photo of Gordon playing vibes...the hair looks a lot darker & fuller in the SMiLE photo, but the face has the same angular slant, and the mouth is virtually identical.  At any rate, there is a SMiLE-era photo of Steve Korthof in the Gaines book...I'd say definitely not him.  Korthof looks more like Carl.  Oh, and FYI:  Pitman is definitely playing vibes in conjunctin with Estes on "Friday Night".

According to my 'Bible' (http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n178/micky_040/515ajoPeAgL_SL500_AA300_.jpg) revised edition, this is a "Surf's Up" session, Western Studios 1/25/67, with from Left to right, Bill Pitman, Gene Estes, Brian Wilson. And no name for the guy in the chair.
Is this right? or mistakes?

Mistake.  Gene Estes was not employed for the 1/25 "Surf's Up" session, and Estes & Pittman DEFINITELY duetted on vibes for "Friday Night".  Plus, the 1/25 session was at Western, and the photo is from Gold Star.

Perfect, thanks.

Watch the dates given under the studio photos in LLVS: Two errors have already been pointed out from photos in this thread.

As far as studios in those photos, if you see wood paneling on the walls and colored tiles, chances are it was Western #3. Robin's egg blue paint and off-white tiles was Gold Star. And the control rooms had a certain look as well: it's easy to pick them out in comparison. I saw that famous shot of Brian and Hal Blaine at the piano, with Brian wearing the same white sweater and hair style as these Gold Star 11/29 photos: I thought to myself "what's Hal doing there?" but the wall behind them was the wood paneling, obviously Western. Answered my own question!

Here are three more from what I would guess was the same 11/29/66 session at Gold Star, judging from Brian's appearance:

(http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n295/guitarfool2002/briantall.jpg)

(http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n295/guitarfool2002/brianseated.jpg)

(http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n295/guitarfool2002/briangold.jpg)

The One picture marked, JIM GORDON is definitely him. The other photo with the guy sitting in the corner
is not him period.

Gordon is quite tall, perhaps 6'5 its easiest to spot him when he is standing next to other people
because of his height.

Incidentally I recently recieved an email from a woman who has a movement to get Gordon released
back into the public. She said he is great with the new generation of medications they have.

The only question I have is, what if he doesn't take his medication ?

It's very exciting to see the original equipment and baffling etc of the original studios, I didin't get to
see most of those. The "Goldstar" walls with the little perforated holes reminds me of the control
room of the old American Recording studio city. Maybe in the tracking room too I cant remember. I believe
that's to deaden reflection and keep it flat.

Anyone else notice how Brian's pants almost exactly match the blue paint color on the walls.  Kinda funny and strange all at once, like he is starting to match the studio.  Too bad his shirt wasn't the same off-white color as the tiles  :lol.

  I also think the guy sitting off to the side( in the corner?)appears to be Jim Gordon, based on the other pictures I've seen. 
It's really hard to tell heights, when people are seated. How is it you're so certain it's not Jim?
Granted, I'm not a Jim Gordon expert. 

Shameless plug: For vintagemusic and others interested, here's a link you might want to check out if you haven't seen it: http://www.classicstudiosessions.blogspot.com/ (http://www.classicstudiosessions.blogspot.com/)

I made that Jim Gordon photo from a series of screenshots of Sonny and Cher film shot at Gold Star in '66, it's the only post there on our blog so far!  ;D I would have posted the video itself but in launching the blog, we thought it would be best to avoid copyright issues and use still photography, so I did sceenshots instead. Let me know off the board if you want a link to the original film.

It is amazing how few shots exist of Jim Gordon at this time. There are some of him working with Brian, wearing a firehat, etc. But overall, considering how much work he did in the 60's and how many hits he played on, there is such a lack of photos and info it's unbelievable. I know of unpublished/unseen shots of Jim from this time (66-69), hopefully someday this stuff will come out.

I am no Jim Gordon expert either. I met him a couple times around 1974 when he was in the Souther Hillman Furay band
recording at Podolors. The guy standing with the vibes or percussion whatever that is. Thats the guy I met. The guy seated
appears to be a different person. Jim Gordon is from Sherman oaks, and he played on Layla, neighborhood kids into music were
very cognizant of who Jim Gordon was in that neighborhood because of this. I don't remember a lot of ten minute chats I had with
people 35 years ago, but I remember meeting Gordon because it was such a big occasion, and we would see him out and about
in the neighborhood buying gas or eating a sandwich, and the guy seated does not appear to be the same guy.

In that case, I defer to your greater knowledge

The guy seated reminds me of, Billy Burnettes uncle or dad, Dorsey Burnette
your sixteen your beautiful and your mine. I dont know who that is, but it
reminds me of someone from the Elvis rockabilly crowd.

For comparison:

The guy at Gold Star:
(http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n295/guitarfool2002/gs1a.jpg)

Jim Gordon:
(http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n295/guitarfool2002/jimg.jpg)

The other guy looks a little like Hal Blaine. Maybe this is all an inside joke?
or a drummer's mixup ?

The guy to the right of the picture looks a bit like recording engineer, Larry Levine who was based at Gold Star at this time.

(http://www.prosoundweb.com/images/uploads/OpenHoward2LarryLevine.jpg)

This is a pic of Larry - not sure from which period - early 60's I think.

Works for me.

I worked with that guy many years later (80's). That could be him (in photo)

Sadly I met him for a couple sessions at a cut rate studio, apparently
there was no pension plan for engineers and he needed the money.
That might be him, it does sort of look like him. He's very famous, he
worked on some other big big sessions besides Brian Wilson, Spector?
Elvis? Did he pass away a few years ago?

Larry died 8 May 2008 on his 80th birthday. He had a web site which is still up. Some nice studio pictures.

http://www.larrylevinerecordingengineer.com/ (http://www.larrylevinerecordingengineer.com/)

There was this cut rate place on Fairfax called "hit man recording" just awful
cheapest rates in town... Does anybody remember if he worked there for extra
money in the eighties ? I seem to recall he did.

Artie Ripp had another place in the Valley, and that place was awful also (Fidelity recording?)
Did he moonlight there for extra cash in the eighties?  Parts of the 80's are hazy for me.

Does anyone remember ?

Jim Gordon... what a sad story.  Incredibly talented musician, yet plagued by substance abuse and mental illness demons... along with a violent streak.

I remember when he was awarded a Grammy for songwriting for "Layla" (Clapton's early '90s remake of the song).  There was a story in the newspaper about how he watched the ceremony in the prison TV room but happened to have stepped out of the room when his name was called.  When he came back into the room, his fellow inmates told him that he had won a Grammy.

"As for my own music, 'Smile' is my most ambitious album in terms of sequences and segues."

http://www.nme.com/news/the-beach-boys/56941

Pretty uninteresting article, but thought the above quote was worth posting as Brian is obviously in 'promote smile sessions' mode.

He's even promoting the segues! Or, if you work for Billboard, the "segue ways"!  ;D

Yes, blown up to this size, definitely not Gordon.  Probably Levine.  Good work.

Nope - he's obviously talking about BWPS. Has to be, given that Smile, being unfinished, never had any sequences or segues to be proud of.  ;D

You mean SMiLE 66 `Andrew surely

Nope - to my mind, Brian's clearly talking about BWPS, which has sequences - three of 'em - and segues (many). Smile, some 44 years ago, had neither sequences nor segues. It's all in the context:

"He said of Pet Sounds: "It's a good album, but not the best. I think The Beatles' Rubber Soul is still the best album of all time. As for my own music, Smile is my most ambitious album in terms of sequences and seques."

So, he compares Pet Sounds to Rubber Soul and finds it wanting (man's a fool, of course), then says "as for my own music", i.e. his solo material. The distinction is clear.

The defense rests.  ;D

Nope - to my mind he's obviously talking about SMiLE as a piece that's finished - as we don't know what SMiLE would have been in 66/67 its difficult to say no sequences and no segues back then

SMiLE, as a work of art conceived, written and performed by BW, VDP and all the players, is finished and completed. It was done so in 2004.

I believe he was speaking of BWPS, as well, but you do have to read into it a little bit, because when he says "as for my own music", it is all his music whether solo or Beach Boys.

Exactly. And released as BWPS. Nice of you to agree with me. Eventually.  :)

 :-D Don't think I do TBH - you are saying BWPS is not the finished SMiLE - right????????

Smile 1966/7 - unfinished, unreleased, no sequence, no segues.

Brian Wilson presents Smile 2004 - finished, released, sequences & segues galore.

BWPS is a Smile, but not the Smile. As I've been saying since February 20th, 2004.

Ahh - wasn't around in September 2004 but what is THE Smile if not BWPS?

The ORIGINAL 1966 one that was NEVER completed.

But it was completed in 2004

The Brian Wilson Travelling Propganda and Deception Machine claims another victim...

You are dividing Smile here, in a perfectly sensible way, but I think it's a leap for you to presume Brian separates the original Smile sessions and the work he did in 2004 in exactly the same way you do. I'd wager when he's talking about Smile in that article he's taking about all the work he did on it, both in the 60s and 2003, the latter the logical conclusion to the former. I just don't think he over complicates it in the same way we do.

All the work HE (Brian Wilson) did on it in 2003? You must be referring to a certain politician or San Francisco Giants pitcher...

Yep - SMiLE is just one thing - and one thing only

So what was completed in 2004???????? - a whole bunch of new songs like H&V, CE, SU, MOC, W, etc etc written and recorded in the 21st century???

Of course that's what happened - I forgot.......duh silly me

"Completion" of the Smile project means the completion of the ORIGINAL 1966-67 recordings. BWPS is not that completion. Never has been and never will be.

I can't believe we're still at war over this, 7 years later!  Who's on first, what's on second, and I don't know is on third!!!!!!  ::)

Nothing was completed in 2003/4. What happened was, a bunch of songs written and (in some cases partly) recorded back in 1966/67 were assembled into a sequence that would work live (source: some dude called Sahanaja), which required the addition of some newly written lyrics and links, and a newly-designed third movement (source: some cat named Wilson). BWPS was conceived, executed and recorded as a live work. The material was largely - but not exclusively - 37 years old. The execution was entirely 21st century. Also, consider this: if it was truly Smile completed... why not call it that ?

A far more accurate title would have been Brian Wilson Reimagines Smile.

A few things that might be worth adding...

If I can interpret Andrew's point differently from A Million Units, I don't think The Smile is the unfinished 1966/67 album. I think, because of the nature of the history of this album, there can never be an official Smile.

And, to be honest, I think it's pretty difficult to say that the offical Smile is BWPS. Even Wilson himself acknowledges that the album is not Smile in the very title of the album! There is a reason why the album isn't just called "Smile". Remember that Smile was a Beach Boys album and part of what Smile was was those recordings - none of which were used on BWPS. However great BWPS was (and, indeed, it was and still is great), it is simply a whole other thing. Again, there is a reason why Brian called the follow up to Pet Sounds "Smiley Smile" and not Smile. And there is a reason why he called his 2004 album Brian Wilson Presents Smile and not simply Smile. "Smile" was, quite simply, something that can never be, however tragic that may seem.

But on this line, I think it makes as much logical sense to say that "Smiley Smile" is the official Smile as it does to say that Brian Wilson Presents Smile is the official Smile.

Looks like I spoke too soon...

I happen to agree with the point above that Smiley Smile is as legitimate a conclusion to Smile as Brian`s 2004 Smile. Music is there for it`s composers to work with, massage. and reinvigorate. An example is Gershwin`s Porgy and Bess, which was later reinterpreted by that composer into a performance piece for orchestra. It is little known and rarely performed compared with the opera, but it is part of the Gershwin oeurve. He did the same with I Got Rhythm, which he redid into a performance piece entitled Variations on I Got Rhythm. I hope Brian keeps reinterpreting his work. He did it with Help Me Rhonda, Let Him Run Wild, and My Solution. Go Brian!

I agree with this. It wasn't like Brian just decided to throw an album together for the hell of it-Smiley is where he decided it was at after getting burned out on SMiLE. In another thread, we've been talking about the night Brian delivered H&V to the radio station-he was pretty sure that the album was gonna blow people away. He thought that people would dig SS. Why or how he got to this conclusion is always up for debate.

Possibly the most extreme example of this is Jim Steinman. As any serious fans of his will know, just about everything he's ever written to date derives from material he composed in the early/mid-seventies for Neverland, his unrealised sci-fi version of Peter Pan.

And All Dressed Up For School, and Sherri She Needs Me, and Shortenin' Bread, and....

It took several readings but I think I've got it! ;D

Ok, so we're all agreed that the 2004 SMiLE is the official one?

I've read the beach boys have got back together to release a 2011 version - The Beach Boys and Co reimagine the Beach Boys Present SMiLE pre-Smiley Smile

Would pay good money for Smiley Smile REDUX, in which the surviving bandmembers + Stamos, Jeff (to fill in for Denny & Carl) recreate the original recording with the exact same conditions on TV, similar to Big Brother.

SMiLE has never been and will never be. So SMiLE is potentially everything. It's up to you, me, the fans, what the Beach Boys had in mind for Smiley Smile, what Brian Wilson had in mind in 2004, what Alan Boyd and Mark Linett have now in mind preparing CD1 of "The SMiLE Sessions", ect.


SMiLE is the first quantum album ever, and that's the beauty of it.  8)

Nope. The 'official' one is coming out later this year.

But who is to say what is official? We all have our own ideas. :)

Well there is a difference between official and, say, definitive. What is official isn't up for debate: whatever is released in an officially sanctioned way is, by definition, official. That is what the word means. Definitive is where each of us having our own ideas comes into play. And so the definitive version of Smile, well, there are already dozens of those: Smiley Smile, BWPS, this or that boot, and no doubt this upcoming box will all be definitive to someone.

My remark was mere satire, dude. Anticipation of the shitstorm to come once the box set is released...

Dude.

 :lol I was joking. Thought the following line gave it way.

To me, BWPS is the first "official" version of SMiLE. What's going to be released is "The Smile Sessions", not "SMiLE".

Nah, the official version of Smile is a 45 minute medley of Ding Dang, Back Home, and Shortenin' Bread played simultaneously on two tape recorders and allowed to go slowly out of phase. Brian just threw it away; he junked it. He thought it was inappropriate music for them to make.

Official, definitive, indefinite, undefined, unrefined, whatever...I'm looking forward to the f*cker whenever its released.

Nope - the official 66/67 recordings are coming out later this year

Nope - those recording are just part of the SMiLE history - those songs were completed in 2004

AGD - whilst I agree that it started out as a live presentation of Smile music (see early list that contained non-Smile tracks) - it quickly grew into something more particularly when VDP joind the team again - it became SMILE in all but name - as for not calling it SMILE, wasn't there some legal reasons why it couldn't be called SMILE.

As for nothing being completed erm - what about Worms, Barnyard, IIGS, SU??????? for example

Ahh Jim Steinman - partly right - All Revved Up, Bat out of Hell, Heaven Can wait and Dance in My Pants certainly featured in Neverland (whichever version) and I am sure several other tunes originated there but to say just about everything originated there is a slight exaggeration.

That said JS does seem to record his songs over and over again with different artists

Agreed - and nicely put

But what if along the way there is a release of the 2004 sessions? What are those going to be called? Just to pick the brains of all you BWPS fanatics...:)

The 2004 Smile Sessions

It'd be called "The Brian Wilson Presents Smile Sessions" -- and I wouldn't mind having THAT either...

Oh, so NOW BWPS is the "2004 Smile Sessions"? But if it's the real Smile, shouldn't it be called "The Smile Sessions" and the original recordings called "The Smile Demos" or "The Smile Sketches" or "The Album Mike Love Couldn't Resonate With Sessions"?

There is only one SMILE - those songs that were written and recorded in 66/67/68/71 and 2004. We all know what those songs were so what's the problem. If they were re-recorded, added to etc in between who gives a toss. Its the same songs constructed under the same vision, 99% the same arrangements.

I do agree that if Smile had been finished in 66/67 it wouldn't have been the same as 2004 Smile  - we didn't have CDs, Pro Tools etc in those days but that doesn't make 2004 Smile anything less than the finished article

There is quite a bit of confusion in your posts.

So you're telling me that Prayer, Heroes and Villains, Vegetables, Wonderful, Wind Chimes, Cabinessence, Surf's Up, Good Vibrations, and the Water Chant were incomplete until 2004, despite the fact that all nine of those appeared on official Beach Boys releases?

It could be argued that none of them were complete but were able to be assembled from existing elements with a few additions?

Haha - that was quite the diplomatic edit.

Yeah, it was a better choice to edit my original comment. It's not always easy to play devil's advocate!

Someone on here mentioned a while back that You're Welcome could very well count as the only Smile-era recording (if it was ever a track is conjecture) to be labelled as "complete" by Brian.

I think that there are a few more complete tracks from the Smile Era...You`re Welcome...Teeter Totter Love, Crack the Whip...the rest, excluding Good Vibrations, were incomplete. If we count Smiley Smile as a part of The Smile Era (I don`t), then a number of tracks were finished. I will go back to the old point I made a number of years ago. If you listen to the creators of Smile...Brian and VDP...they would  define Smile as being completed when the 2004 assembly and lyric work along with sequencing was finished. For the Smile Era advocates...I believe that these recordings were fleshed out, occasionally with Brian`s assistance  in 1968, 1969 and 1971.

Peter, I'm guessing you're one of the few folk on the planet to have heard Teeter Totter Love and Crack the Whip. Can you tell us anything about them?  Were they fully-realised productions like Cabinessence and Heroes, or simple productions like Little Red Book etc?  Would be wonderful to hear your take.

Just saying: I'm excited about the SMiLE sessions box set release. I hope there will have a lot of new/never heard/final mix...
I'm just afraid of a box set similar to The Pet Sounds sessions, which was great, but incomplete (more sessions appeared on boot with more studio chat).
I would love to hear everything recorded during the SMiLE era like 'Teeter Totter Love', 'Crack the Whip', 'When I Get Mad I Just Play My Drums', 'I Don't Know', 'Tones/Tune X', My Little Red Book'....
So, I would like to have a box set with The SMiLE Sessions/ SMiLE Era. I think it could be interesting to hear anything recorded during this period.

Other point: anychance to hear 'On Top Of Old Smokey' played (recorded?) during Paul's visit on Monday 10 April 1967?
It was probably just for fun with nothing recorded.

Last point: About "WHISTLE IN ", I had totally forgot it was part of the SMiLE sessions (january 1967 ?). Never heard it yet. Any informations about what it sounds like?

The Jasper tracks were chants akin to You`re Welcome, which Brian tried to sell to A&M for a recording contract for Jasper. Jasper was not a singer. Maybe it was a put on. To my knowledge On Top has never turned up. I agree that a Smile Box is the best we are going to get from the group and is the most desirable thing still archived. Whistle In is one of my favorite tracks from Smiley Smile...I like it better than the one from Smile. But that`s just me....

So a recording of 'Whistle In' during the SMiLE sessions exists? and it may be true that 'considering the similarity of a Heroes And Villains segment to the vocal work of the released Whistle In, it could have been originally intended as a Heroes And Villains piece'? is this correct? and it was the reason why it was 'cancelled'.
Though, the 'Whistle In' version of Smiley Smile doesnt have a similarity of a H&V segment? or I don't remember.

"Air", anyone?

The "remember the day, remember the night" bit is basically the Hawaiian chant in Do You Like Worms.

Whistle In sounds like a throwaway or an unfinished idea to me - it's not much of a song, is it? The only relationship to the Smile sessions proper might be a Heroes fragment session where they're whistling the same melody line that the French Horn player does the "fluttertone" effect on the Cantina version of Heroes.

Are you talking about "Dumb Whistle" ? The one that ends in a distorted tape echo ?

Nope - only known session for "Whistle In" was July 13th 1967, although it is indeed based on a "DYLW" riff.

It doesn't end in a distorted tape echo-it's just somebody (or maybe a couple of the guys) whistling the French Horn part from H&V, with 'dum dum dum' vocal behind it. It's kind of hard to describe.

Yeah, that's what I call "Dumb Whistle", we're talkiong about the same session. The tape echo has been added later during the mix.

Many thanks Peter  - much appreciated.

Would love to think Smokey was one of the surprises on the box set, and no doubt it'd boost sales as Beatles fanatics would mop it up. But I'd second the thought that it probably wasn't recorded, if indeed it took place.

Thank you AGD.
I was referring to informations found here http://smilefiletemp.tripod.com/S267.htm ... and elsewhere (?),
saying: "WHISTLE IN: An early version of the song was recorded on this day (January 27th 1967), but considering the similarity of a Heroes And Villains segment to the vocal work of the released Whistle In, it could have been originally intended as a Heroes And Villains piece."
Wrong info?

I'd say so: the 1/27/67 session was for "H&V", but it was a vocal session at Columbia.

Caveat: everything previously stated may change (or not) with any new information that may - or may not - be presented in The Smile Sessions.

Possibly.

I think the only connection - and it's a very thin one at that - between "Whistle In" and "Heroes" is the "Dumb Whistle" part which I mentioned a few posts ago...and the only connection I hear anyway is that both songs feature whistling on top of a rhythmic "dum dum dum" style backing.

Just for curiosity - this 1/27/67 Heroes vocal session, was it the "Dumb Whistle" fragment?

Perfect. thanks for the info. And I hope there will be new information in the Smile Sessions to correct all the mistakes wrote all over the years. :)

Incidentally, the "dumb whistle" section segues perfectly from the "dum-dum-dum Heroes & Villains" chant found in HEROES & VILLAINS (Sections) which leads me to believe they were part of the same session. Any truth to that?

Nope. The "dum dum dum heroes and villains" bit was from December.

Is it possible that the whistling was overdubbed onto the December '66 "dum-dum-dums" in January '67? In other words, the whistling and the distorted tape echo was added in January, but the "dum-dum-dum" vocals were from December. I guess I don't care that much either way; I'm just amazed at how close they replicated the "dum-dum-dum" backing vocal.

I don't know why but I never put these two together. Following the "Dum Dum Heroes & Villains" chant with the Dum Dum Whistle makes for a much better precursor to a potential fade. I always imagined that Dum Dum chant to be one of the final parts of a potential H&V part 2, but fades always felt a bit jarring coming straight out of that Dum dum chant. Adding the whistle makes perfect sense and would mirror the form of the Cantina edit much more closely.

No, because the December bit was a different version. The December one sounds more like a melody, the January one is a single note repeated.

Fair enough. My personal "Heroes" edit crossfades from the December session to the "dumb whistle" session and it makes for a nice transition into the tag as "buddhahat" mentions. The pieces matched enough to make me think that the December session vocal may have originally preceded the "dumb whistle" section which Brian then truncated for the Jan. '67 "Cantina" edit.

Roger, I'd love to hear that!

maybe Dumb Angel is a Muted Trumpter Swan... dumb doesn't have to mean stupid... could just mean quiet.
I just had that visual of the angel with wings blowing the trumpet at heaven's gate.... Gabriel playing some Miles Davis... the evening of the day and the night... whistle while you work... and so on

I don't know whether anyone has seen it but here is the cover for the Mojo Smile / 60's special isses....

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Beach-Boys-MOJO-60s-7-LTD-ED-MAGAZINE-/390319365569?pt=UK_Magazines&hash=item5ae0d8ddc1

Oh my god, how are they selling that now?

"It's here! At last! THE FULL STORY
A 20-PAGE SPECTACULAR! "

Text below that is a bit hard to read but I think it says:

"New interviews with Brian Wilson, Mike Love, Van Dyke Parks, Al Jardine and much more!"

"THE FULL STORY"

Oh, this is gonna be so much FUN !  ;D

I have made it a rule to disregard any article or book that claims to have "the full story". I have so many Beatles books with the "full" story that I have run out of space in my room. The funny thing is, the "full" story is a little different with each book.  ;D

The full story of the BBs and SMiLE in 20 pages?

How large are these pages, I wonder? The size of a soccer field?

No despatch until UK release date it says in the detail.  In other words, they're gonna nip out to WHS and buy a bundle when it hits the shelves.

I guess we Brits need to be aware that speculators might nab the lot, like some did with the Heroes & Vibes 10" 78rpm recently.

Not in my hometown: I'm 50% of the total BB/BW fanbase.

But where have they got the cover images from? Can't find it on the Mojo site yet.

I'm getting a "listing has ended" message.

It's a bloomin' ugly cover in my opinion.   A Frank Holmes artwork might have been sweeter…

...which begs the question: who's the other 50%?

He means he's lost weight. He used to be 100%.  ;D

 :lol

Hahaaa!! I subscribe to Mojo so should have it a couple of days before it hits the shops.

If there's no scans of the front cover by then (doubtful), I'll upload it

It's not a regular issue -  it's a one-off, so subscribers won't automatically receive it (unless ylou got a reeeal good subscription deal).

Ah-OK, thanks for that. I'll double check but have they done this type of thing before? I've always thought Mojo as a once a month mag.

Aye, they've done occasional specials for a long time I believe, though I've never bought one – this will be my first and I doubt I'll stop at one copy.  For posterity, y'know…  :hat

I love the cover, never even seen that picture of Brian before.

Suprising since I have an extensive bordering on psychotic collection

Is there an actual street date?  I don't want to be making countless regrettable trips to the store

The same seller just put another batch up for sale.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=390319711730 (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=390319711730)

June 15th

The specials are usually very well done. We'll see if this one is as well.

(http://www.earcandymag.com/parody/brimalpaul-smokey45.jpg)
(http://www.earcandymag.com/parody/brimalpaul-smokey.jpg)

Funniest thing I've seen since "The Hawthorne Hotshots" EP on Jackalope Records.

Gotta have 12 of those...but the f****r who did that Hot Shots thing was demented!

I thought he was fermented too.

There were those times. yup... ::)

1 Week till the Mojo Magazine is released  :ahh

What about videos in the box set?

Anychance to see more videos filmed during the SMiLE sessions?
The complete clip of "Mrs O'Leary Fire", and others interesting stuff, (filmed by Dennis for example) etc...
Do you think they will add videos never seen before in the box set? I'd love that, just sayin...

No videos/DVDs have been mentioned thus far. As for "the complete clip of "Mrs O'Leary Fire"", if you're referring to the American Band footage, the complete version of that is available on the Pet Sounds 40th anniversary CD/DVD set.

NO!!! He wasn't demented at all! In fact, I really appreciated his efforts to compile and press those and also DB for distributing them. I picked up three when they came out - one of my favorite boots at the time.

The one I never saw materialize was the KPUK single. Got the sleeve but no record. Now THAT was demented! What a big teaser that guy was!  ;D

Thank you very much Andrew. I was referring to the video clip made by Caleb Deschanel, with the Boys in the firehouse, and running after the fire truck...
I haven't seen "The Pet Sounds 40th anniversary CD/DVD set" :-[.

The footage you describe was originally part of the 1966 "Good Vibrations" promo film (here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-YzG9NZrI0)), which is on the DVD part of said release. The makers of American Band used it entirely out of context, as it was shot well before "Fire" was recorded.

Wow, I didn't know. Thank you for the link. But I'm very confused! ???
So, if I understand correctly, the footage had nothing to do with 'Fire'? It was shot for "GV" promo film? and not intended at all for "Fire"?
Though, I cannot see a link with "GV", when the link with "Fire" is easy to find?!  ;D

I remember seeing the 'fire' footage shown on Top Of The Pops in the UK in 1966 when "GV" hit #1... and later, when I was a BB fan and described it, NO-ONE believed me, thus it was a very sweet moment when it was included in the 1985 video-biog, as it gave me the opportunity to say not only "told ya !" but also point out that the footage had nothing to do with "Fire". There's footage from the BB's 1966 visit to London of Dennis & Alan in an antique shop, and when DW finds an old fire helmet he says something like "wow, gonna buy this for Brian, he looooooves fire hats": that would be early November 1966.

Very interesting. And I wouldn't have believed you, because it is hard to believe! ;) and great to hear the story about Dennis and Alan visiting London and buying a fire helmet for Brian! And a few days/month later, Brian will start working on "Fire"!   funny story. thanks for sharing.

The first time I ever saw the GV firehouse promo was on cable network AMC when they had a summer promotion going called "AM-Pop" around 2001 (can't recall), and they'd run beach films, various Scopitones music shorts, etc. in between full-length beach and music films on Saturday nights.

One of the best packages was something I understand Alan Boyd edited together, and it contained the GV film promo (at that point I too thought it was Fire-related), and a capella bit from Friends in a TV studio, an airline or travel commercial featuring Brian at an organ with the other Boys, and the "Little Honda" film which I assumed for years was "Worms", again from American Band.

It was a mind-blower, and I was finally able to track down a copy of the GV promo and became obsessed with it! All this before the "official" releases of course. That AMC series of clips was incredible for its time - very enjoyable and some rare video clips in high quality. Good stuff.

From Big0:

MOJO DUST
Mojo '60s is a 132-page deluxe magazine from the publisher's of Mojo, celebrating the 1960s. The cover story is the Beach Boys' Smile album which EMI/Capitol have promised to release soon. Other stories cover the usual Mojo suspects The Beatles, Bob Dylan, Jimi Hendrix, the diary of a mod girl, The Rolling Stones, the moon landing and more. What's special is the 7-inch single that is an exclusive official Beach Boys single in 'summer' yellow vinyl. Capitol have designed the sleeve and the lacquers were manufactured at Abbey Road. The single features: 'Cabin Essence' bw 'Wonderful'. On newsstands in the UK on or around June 13.

..sooner is better than later.  :-\

Gah!! Even this date is shifting!

At least it's getting closer rather than further away  :lol

Stupid question time, where would us Britishes get a special edition of Mojo.... I don't think my local supermarket will stock the 'special' one. Am in London though, so d'you reckon a big WHSmiths in central will have it?


ack, shall pop into Rough Trade and get it, they have it for pre-order

Yep WH Smiths is always a good bet

Yeah, was kind of debating the sanity of going all the way into central London to buy a magazine.... But this is the Beach Boys! Sanity doesn't feature :P

Oh yeah! I was thinking the original date was the 12th for some reason, so this is indeed good news. Wonder what the chances of my local Smiths getting this in next week ...

Hell, no - I flew to Sacramento to buy Looking Back With Love on the day it was released !  ;D

Andrew, that was almost criminally insane. That was one expensive album for you.  ;D

Better Looking Back With Love than, say, Gettin' In Over My Head! :)

Flew from San Francisco.  ;D

And I bought two !

I tend to think that it was shooting the promo film for "Good Vibrations" that gave Brian the idea to do "Fire"...or else Brian just had firetrucks and helmets on his mind the whole fall of '66.

What I didn't know was that Caleb Deschanel had shot the footage - I wonder if his daughter knew about this or mentioned it to Brian when she interviewed him a few years back.

The photo of Brian and him with a camera filming that promo has been around for years, I'm hoping/guessing someone would have pointed it out!

And in one of the late 90's docs, there was silent footage of Dennis on a firetruck shown from that same promo shoot - and if you recall Dennis isn't really there in the original promo film. Since a lot of the surrounding silent footage came from Dennis' camera, I've wondered where that clip may have come from.

I recently got in touch with Caleb Deschanel, and asked him about that Good Vibrations film.  it turns out he didn't actually shoot that promo....but he did cut the negative!  He was studying at USC at the time, and a call came in asking if one of the students in the film department would be interested in helping out with the post-production.  When fellow student George Lucas turned down the gig, Caleb took it on.

Cool.

Sooo... if he didn't shoot it, and there's no Dennis in shot... is the obvious deduction the correct one ?

And that Lucas guy... he ever amount to anything ?

So excited for that magazine

Alan, if you check in again -- will there be any revelations in the upcoming MOJO special issue's article on SMiLE?

Hope everything is going well!

Thank you Mr Boyd for the information.

It is a photo taken during the shooting of "GV" promo film, correct?
So this is not Caleb Deschanel, any idea who is the cameraman?


(http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n178/micky_040/smile__bri_filming_fire.jpg)

Thank god, we would've seen about 40 different versions of the same thing if he didn't.  ;D

"The collectors edition remastered 40th anniversary edition of the Good Vibrations promo film, with all the footage Brian originally intended, such as Al shooting first, Mike Love having all his own hair and a CGI Murry"

 :lol

That is indeed the promo shoot, notice the open cab firetruck in the background which is also in the promo, and some buildings which made the film too.

After Alan Boyd's newest information, does anyone know who is behind the camera? Very interesting new info!

For those interested, the firehouse where that promo was filmed is now the Los Angeles Fire Department Museum, formerly Fire Station 27 which covered Hollywood back in the day when it was an active company. If you visit there as a Beach Boys fan you can see the pole which Mike slid down and Brian slid down and up in the film! ;D

Maybe Deschanel could identify him from the picture.

Maybe it is the mysterious "Bob Gordon/Gordan"? Anyone have more photos from that shoot that show the crew? Seems like there is one showing Vosse.

Edit: we must have just assumed Deschanel was a videographer on the film because Vosse only said Deschanel "helped out as a favor".

Hey LOOK!! 
5 copies on Ebay this morning: 

http://cgi.ebay.com/MOJO-SPECIAL-60S-BEACH-BOYS-YELLO-VINYL-7-/170653322495?pt=UK_Magazines&hash=item27bbbb0cff

By the way Keith Badman wrote in his book that the promo film was shot on October 23, but this is incorrect.  The Beach Boys flew to the Midwest to play concerts no later than the morning of October 21 1966 and did not return to LA till after a European and American tour.  The film was probably shot at an earlier date in October. 

Vosse remembers flying with Brian to Chicago/Michigan in his first "few days" or "after only a week" of starting for the BBs so the filming possibly happened in the week prior.

Cam, do you mean photos of the actual promo film? Because Vosse is a main player in the film, and Diane Rovell is shown with the firemen too...as far as still shots from the day of filming I've only seen the one posted above in this thread.

It was speculated - and I use that term specifically - that the lanky man with the shades and the cameras hung around his neck shown prominently in the film was Mr. Gordon/Gordan. I've never seen nor heard any further conformation of that, but if Gordon/Gordan were shooting photos and hanging around Brian at this time, it would make sense. He also turns up on audio of a GV studio session where he's shooting what sounds like a film camera (versus still) and making too much noise during a take.

Assuming that was Gordon with the shades in the film, that's not him with the pro camera crouching with Brian. But that's assuming the guy with the shades is Gordon!

The last quote: Did Vosse only start working for the band officially in late October? That seems late to me, especially in light of the airport photo showing what I thought was a close-knit group of friends and associates, and if Vosse had just started associating with Brian a week before that wouldn't make sense. Maybe he meant working for them for pay versus being friends with Brian? I'm confused.

I meant any images or captures of the crew for the GV shoot.

My understanding is that Vosse had contact with Brian for an interview and through Anderle etc. for some period before he went on the payroll. The week or so before Michigan was when he went on the payroll as I understood it.

That makes sense, I just wasn't calculating the timeline in my head with the difference between Vosse being a part of the circle of friends around Brian and actually drawing a salary working for Brian and/or the Beach Boys.

I don't recall any images of the crew turning up: there is one shot of Diane and Vosse standing with the firemen, but I don't recall a shot of the film crew. The only outtakes I can think of which we've seen "officially" are the ones of Dennis on the firetruck and Brian leading a Coke bottle symphony where the Beach Boys are blowing into Coke bottles. Maybe Alan Boyd can confirm if there are any other outtakes from this day beyond those few silent shots.

OK, maybe it wasn't too much before, sometime prior to the release of GV but after it was completed. So September 21 to October 10? Was it ever discovered when that Boss City appearance was?

Boss City aired on KHJ-TV Saturday afternoons, and I believe it was a live broadcast...and of course please correct that if I'm wrong about the live part. Plugging in the known facts: The single was officially released in the US October 10, 1966 which was a Monday. It appeared as a KHJ "Hitbound" on the September 28th survey. The fact that KHJ premiered the single first on TV before radio - a big deal at the time apparently - might make the date of the Boss City show Saturday September 24. Much like the Heroes And Villains discussion we had a few weeks ago, it would make sense to premiere the song on Boss City the Saturday before it would appear first on the survey, then they'd have played it with the "KHJ exclusive" voiceover that week of Sept. 26...Just a guess.

The 'MOJO SPECIAL' will be in my mail box on Thuesday/Wednesday, and I'm happy, happy! (and curious/excited/worried...)

Thanks for the info. Did the firehouse become a museum because of "GV" promo? with a memorial stone saying 'The Beach Boys shot their famous "GV" promo here" ? just kidding...

Boss City may have been taped before a live audience but it did not air right away.  The BBs appeared on the Nov 19 1966 edition to plug Good Vibrations.  They had taped the appearance over a month before, however-during the week of Oct 14-20 1966.  I have an article that discusses how this girl who won a contest got to meet the BBs and the Turtles backstage at the taping.  Not sure when Brian's solo app was but I am sure he taped it prior to the BB app.

According to Allen Daviau, KHJ's TV shows were live with filmed segments. So if Vosse's memory is accurate, Brian's presumably live appearance on Boss City would have been during that October 14-20 period or later. That doesn't seem right but what exactly is the info on that appearance? I wonder if there are any records of those shows anywhere?

There were two tapings.  Brian appeared solo and then at some point the BBs taped an appearance.  The Brian appearance was not advertised but the BBs app to sing Good Vibrations was.  All the ads list the BBs appearing on Nov 19 1966.  They were on the east coast then doing a tour-so no possible way it was live.  I have an article in which they interview a young lady who won a contest and got to meet the BBs (not Brian) and the Turtles when the two groups taped an app on Boss City for future airing.  So perhaps due to their busy schedule they taped their clips.  The article is from late Oct-when the BBs were in Europe and states that the app happened a week earlier-but no exact date-hence Oct 14-20 1966 is the best I can do.  This makes sense-the BBs were about to leave for over a month and did some last minute promotion in California.  I also have an article on Boss City in which it is stated that many bands tape what we call today music videos for that show and that the BBs and others asked if they could use the clips elsewhere too. 

Right, that makes sense. What I meant about the exact info was what do we know about the appearance itself, I wasn't clear. Anderle tells about Brian and Vosse going to the show but it doesn't give any info about it being a preview or exclusive as I remember. If Vosse was already in the BBs' employ it seems like it would probably be October 15 or later, if his appearance aired live. It's hard to know what he/they mean and fit it in a timeline.

With all due respect to Ian and Cam, what you're saying isn't taking into consideration the timeline I posted here regarding when Brian would have appeared on the show for the solo appearance, and as evidenced by the photo with Vosse by his side at that appearance. I thought I had laid it out pretty well with the printed evidence, but maybe not...

If the record appeared on KHJ surveys as a hitbound in the September 28 issue, and the "official" release was Monday October 10th, how are you suggesting a later date than that? The Billboard column *specifically* mentions KHJ-TV's "Boss City" being the first outlet to premiere the single on television versus the radio, and that was the crux of the story...a single going straight to TV before radio for its first airplay. If it was a KHJ hitbound on the air the week of September 28, the TV premiere would have had to be around that date too.

I apologize, I didn't see the Billboard article, where was that? That would be different, I was just noting that Vosse's account of when he started didn't square with the early dates.

It's in Billboard dated 12/3/66: Billboard (http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=eQ8EAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA32&dq=KHJ+Boss+City+good+Vibrations&hl=en&ei=5kr2TZqJMs6q8QO04oCqBw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CC8Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=KHJ%20Boss%20City%20good%20Vibrations&f=false)

Something would seem to be a little off kilter in all of this, tho. It's very hard to believe that Capitol would have a record on TV OR radio TWO weeks before it's available for sale.
While there's the potential to build sales momentum, it could easily go the way of frustration and have buyers go elsewhere for other records?
 So how to balance it all. ( I'm clueless) 

It might be easier to see all of this backstory through the lens of Los Angeles radio's inner workings. The impression I got reading various accounts was that it was a highly competitive, cutthroat, take-no-prisoners market among the pop and "teen" AM stations especially KHJ (the new upstart) and KRLA (the established pro). The two stations would try to beat each other to get the "exclusive", premiere airings and therefore get the national attention. And that included theft of ideas and also outright attempts at sabotage.

KHJ and KRLA were both trendsetters nationwide for different reasons, and if doing something like taking a single straight to television for a premiere rather than radio would make waves in the industry nationwide and get press attention (as KHJ did with GV), it was an easy sell to Capitol: Give-and-take, you give us the premiere, we'll play the hell out of this record and talk it up. It was a win-win situation, and in the cycle of the charts at that time a few weeks of airplay pre-release was building momentum within the LA market which was being monitored across the country. If industry folks in LA heard the record being pushed heavily, they'd go back to their own territories ready to talk up the single in their own markets. And perhaps start pre-ordering for their local shops and jukeboxes so they had it for the official release.

I also have to factor in "The Monkees" tv show which was just getting started in September 1966. Yes, the "Last Train To Clarksville" single was released prior to the show's premiere, but as those first episodes aired I'm sure KHJ and others were getting requests for Monkees songs which had been heard only on that TV show...and perhaps someone like Ron Jacobs got the idea of doing the same thing - premiering a record on TV and creating a demand, even if the record wasn't available to buy. Those early Monkees episodes had songs which never appeared on a single or album, yet the demand was there from the TV audience.