The Smiley Smile Message Board

in your opinion   ;D


I myself kinda like the filler stuff, but I still consider them filler stuff.

In my opinion of the non-filler-containing albums:
-Summer Days (Then I Kissed Her was kinda pushing it)
-Pet Sounds (obviously
-Smiley
-Wild Honey
-Friends
-Surfer Girl
-Sunflower (Tears in the Morning almost ruin it)
-Holland
-Love You
-L.A.
-BB85
-Still Cruisin (could have been if they were smarter when putting the album together)


SIP is the winner of having the most fillers! I think everything is except Island Fever Lahania Aloha.

You're high, Tears in the Morning is a grand slam.

Friends has the best flow, beginning to end hands down no questions asked.

For the Capitol years: 
SS
SUSA
SG
LDC
SD2
ASL
Today
Summer Days
Party
PS
SS
WH
Friends
20/20 
All Have NO filler at all, just great songs

We'll eventually hear sh*t about it anyways, so I might as well say it: If not for the inclusion of TM I would rate Friends as their most perfect flowing album. Unfortunately, the chill flow of Friends turns into a class VI river rapids run when TM comes on.
_____

Pet Sounds
Surfer Girl
Love You

are my choices for best flowing albums. Especially Surfer Girl.

Pet Sounds
Friends
Sunflower
So Tough
Holland


Today - except Big Daddy session

Summer Days - except Then I Kissed Her and Bugged at my old Man

Wild Honey - except Mama Says

Surfs Up - except Take a Load off and Student Demo

Love You - except Ding Dang

LA Light - except Shortnin Bread

Keep the Summer Alive

I'm just wondering: Do you mean these LPs would flow perfectly without those songs, or that those songs are filler? 

I like TM, but I agree maybe if they added a track before it to sort of build up to it, then the "flow" of the album would be PERFECT.

Only Pet Sounds.

Wild Honey and Holland flow pretty nicely, as well. I have no problem with Brian's filler music. Most of it was pretty decent. The spoken word tracks do wear old after awhile.

Oh, I can see where for some people the talking tracks can get old, but I see those as the early presentations of Brian's Comedy sense.
Personally I don't consider any the songs as "filler". Yes they HAD to have 12 songs, but they were fun stuff, and experimentations that brought about Brian's musical changes.

Agree to disagree. Pet Sounds had a collection of amazing music, but did it flow? I don't think so.

I was actually thinking more from the "no filler" side of the question, but I'd stand behind it for flow, too. However, I also would strongly consider suggesting that sometimes a good flow is one you've gotten used to. My favorite albums all flow well ... but is that because I have come to love how they flow? Probably.

Why not just say every Capitol album, from SS to 20/20? (not including GH/Best Of's...and Stack-O-Tracks)

I honestly used to be a big fan of Tears in the Morning, especially when I first bought Sunflower, but I just feel like everything around that song has a different vibe that is the same and Tears sticks out, at least the track does.

I suppose, because I posted the ones I chose.

So Tough? Really? I can't see the flow.
Glad to see I'm not the only one who sees Then I kissed Her as something that's just kinda there and nothing spectacular. I feel like it's a direct cover, nothing new but lyrics that reverse and apply to a guy.

I kinda forgot about LDC, that's a perfect flow...possibly the best flow of all the early albums, right up to Pet Sounds. Surfer Girl also has a great flow, great ballads, instrumentals, and poppy-Brian-y songs.

From Surfin Safari through Holland, here's the filler: e
(very album from 15 Big Ones and onward is very hit&miss with maybe the exception of Love You, so those can be left for discussion).

 'cassius of love vs sonny wilson'
 'denny's drums'
 'our favorite recording session'
 'bull session w/ big daddy
 'Im bugged at my ol man'
 'little pad'
 'mama says'
 'a day in the life of a tree'
 'he came down'

"He came down"? no way.

Today! Pet Sounds, Wild Honey, Friends and Love You would be my choices.

I was going to mention this last night but decided not to post after 100 beers, now that I reread it I see that you already said it! Couldn't agree more.

Yep, no love here for TIKH.  A well-done cover of a very boring song IMHO.   Amazing that it was selected as a UK single in early '67.   And "You're So Good to Me"...decent verse, tossed-off banal chorus.  Overall, while SD&SN has some good material, I can really feel the increasingly sophisticated arrangements chafing against the binding of continued juvenile/adolescent subject matter ("Let Him Run Wild" a notable exception).  Personally I can understand why Brian as a 23-year-old was looking for lyrics with a wider, more adult range than amusement parks and girlfriends going to stay with their grandparents for the summer.

I don't consider any of those filler

I count at least 66 filler tracks, just thru '73

County Fair
Ten Little Indians
Chug-A-Lug
Little Girl (You're My Miss America)
Surfin'
Heads You Win, Tails I Lose
Summertime Blues
Cuckoo Clock
Moon Dawg
The Shift
Misirlou
Stoked
Noble Surfer
Honky Tonk
Lana
Surf Jam
Let's Go Trippin'
Finders Keepers
The Surfer Moon
South Bay Surfer
The Rocking Surfer
Surfers Rule
Boogie Woodie
Ballad Of Ole'Betsy
Car Crazy Cutie
Spirit Of America
A Young Man Is Gone
In The Parkin' Lot
"Cassius" Love vs. "Sonny" Wilson
This Car Of Mine
Pom-Pom Play Girl
Shut Down, Part II
Louie Louie
Denny's Drums
Carl's Big Chance
Do You Remember?
Drive-In
Our Favorite Recording Sessions
Help Me, Ronda
Bull Session With Big Daddy
Amusement Parks U.S.A.
Salt Lake City (but not filler on Stack-O-Trax)
I'm Bugged At My Ol' Man
And Your Dream Comes True
Hully Gully
I Should Have Known Better
Tell Me Why
Papa-Oom-Mow-Mow
Mountain Of Love
You've Got To Hide Your Love Away
Devoted To You
Alley Oop
There's No Other (Like My Baby)
Medley:I Get Around/Little Deuce Coupe
The Times They Are A Changin'
She's Goin' Bald
Bluebirds Over The Mountain
All I Want to Do
The Nearest Faraway Place
Don't Go Near The Water
Take A Load Off Your Feet
Student Demonstration Time
Here She Comes
He Came Down
Hold On Dear Brother
Make It Good

Yeah, but it's surprising since so many of them are songs that are literally on the album for the sole purpose of filling it out.

It sure seems like people are conflating 'filler' with 'songs they do not like', and I don't quite think they're the same. Spoken-word or interview tracks on LPs are obviously filler -- they'd be the things meant to fill out an album where not enough material can be marshalled. This can hold for songs as well, of course, like the last three on Shut Down Vol. 2... but I don't think most of Carl & The Passions "So Tough" counts as filler!

I would say Love You but it has "Ding Dang" which is fun but definitely in the "filler" category.

Pet Sounds is basically perfect.

Next would be So Tough. Every song is great. No Filler.

Sunflower: all 12 tracks have really grown on me. I used to skip "At My Window" but not anymore. And I was a fan of "Tears In the Morning" the very first time I heard it. It almost makes me want to like Bruce (but after listening to Going Pubic, I'm not so sure).

All in all, most of those 60's-70's records were very well done. Think about this: most new artists release albums with one or two killer tracks and the rest is filler. The only band I can think of that didn't put filler on their albums is Led Zeppelin. Not any that I can think of but it's been a while since I played one of their albums all of the way through.

The spoken word tracks are far from the only filler, and Carl and the Passions is a good example.  The group had a contract, they needed to put out an album, and they didn't have a lot of ideas.  They managed to get four decent songs on there, but the other four are bland, with none of the distinctiveness that the better Beach Boys tracks have.

And I think the band, or at least the record company, recognized that half of the album was filler.  Otherwise they wouldn't have packaged it with Pet Sounds.  The compilers of the box set also recognized that, which is why they started Disc 4 with Holland material rather than Carl and the Passions songs.  The majority of critics also don't particularly like it.

I don't expect most of the people on this board to agree, but then some of the people on here are the die hard of the die hard.

Bruce BRuce BRUce BRUCe BRUCE!!!

Jeff, that list is ridiculous! ;)

I'm sure a few people think so.  But to me it's indicative of the extraordinary quality gaps within almost every album.  In '63, '64, it wasn't unusual for a group to put out an album with a couple of great songs and a lot of "filler."  But the Beach Boys were extreme in that way, and continued to follow a similar pattern even after it was no longer fashionable--a good example being 'Til I Die and Surf's Up sharing the same LP with Student Demonstration Time and the foot song. 

If Ding Dang is filler, then why bother? It is so short they could have used anything else to "Fill" the record... Ding Dang is a perfect song for Love You...

I think we have to keep in mind the vinyl format of the albums we are discussing. Side one and Side two is so far away from our continuos compact discs...

I had to take exception to some of this list - filler, no chance!

Sorry, I know it's all about personal choice, but why are you even a fan?

I'm a music fan, and the Beach Boys made some of the best pop music ever.

But they also put out a lot of really bad music, and I don't think that being a fan of the good stuff requires being a fan of the bad stuff.

Sorry, but Pom Pom Play Girl- FILLER!!!!!!


Have you got ears???????????????????????

In under two minutes Brian Wilson manahes to squeeze in about 12 key changes. When I first heard this I had to pinch myself as I was convinced Mozart had not dies of kidney failure but was alive and well and living in LA.

Who cares about lyrics?

This has nothing to do with music

Pom Pom Play Girl is one of THE prime examples of Brian Wilsons genius

And by genius I mean the 18th century correct understanding of the term. Someone who can hear more than 5 lines of polyphony in their head,

Sorry, but how can you call this song filler?

I'm very very angry, and I don't care.

It's not often I react like this, I'm very easy going.

I have just got back from a rare night out at the pub though

My judgment may be off kilter

But I'm very cross now. I wish I hadn't logged on.

I'm sorry

Pom Pom Play Girl is not filler

You are so very wrong.

But I don't mean to over react, I'm off to bed now.

Ah, beer!

I'm certainly not as agitated as my friend Iron Horse-Apples, but I think you'll be hard pressed to find much agreement on a lot of those Jeff.  I don't consider most of your list "bad" stuff at all.  Obviously at the end of the day, whether one likes a song or not is a subjective thing, but I agree with Midnight Special that you're misappropriating the term "filler."

On the early records especially, many of the tracks you list were important steps in the development of Brian's talent and the group's sound.  It's almost as though you're faulting the band for being too prolific, holding them to such a high standard that some really good tracks are deemed less worthy just because there were so many great ones.

To use a baseball analogy (don't know if this would be the same for cricket), a fielder who makes a spectacular diving stop, then throws the ball two feet over the first baseman's head, is charged with an error, as he should be.

Actually, I think I would get a lot of agreement among music fans as a whole, just not on this board.

I would not say I'm faulting the band.  The record company's schedule was brutal, and it was basically up to one guy, Brian, to write and produce everything up through about mid-68.  But whatever the reasons are for the sub-par tracks, I still don't think they're very good.

And yes, I do think all of those tracks were filler.  They had to produce a lot of stuff--they just didn't have any choice, so a lot of it wound up being filler.

Pom Pom Play Girl is one of the first examples of Brian's genius, yeah. The strange harmonies in the verse and the key changes are pretty spectacular. I think it stands out on that album, and it's one of the BBs early songs that I always return to.

Not a filler!

The thing is Jeff, for a lot of us, many of those bad music filler tracks are not bad at all. Actually, you even have a few 45 single songs on the list, and in the correct definition of filler, fail the test. I know that most of your list is your own opinion, but I feel bad for you that you must suffer through so much insufferable music. You must have wasted a considerable fortune when buying albums, with all that filler on them. Hopefully, the 45 will make a comeback. ;)

I love this post.

Clear your desk Jeff.. Not cool.. Not cool at all!!!

Let's see NO filler?

Concert has some lighthearted moments but no real filler. It not a great album but serves it's purpose well.
Pet Sounds of course is pretty perfect.
Sunflower is pretty close to perfect. I don't love Tears but the harmonies are very nice. I just dislike the piano coda but that's only about a minute.
Live In London really has no filler.
In Concert is also close but some oldies were already a little hackneyes no Dennis was a big problem.

All Summer Long and Today would be perfect without the talking tracks.
Summer Days comes close but the last three cuts don't match the rest.
Party would be pretty perfect (for what it is) if they got rid of the lame hits medley.

Wild Honey -Mama Says
Friends-minus the last two cuts
20/20 minus Bruce's number
all of these would have been pretty close.

Surf's Up -minus Tree (shoot me I don't like it much because of the lead vocals)
Carl-Make It Good (I love Dennis but it wasn't his best moment) and Hold On would work for me.
Holland minus the second part of the saga. I would say the fairy tale but hell there are some great pieces and for what it is it's fun.
Nothing after 1973 even comes close to being filler free.
I really love Shut Down 2 and Surfin' U.S.A. but they have filler. Funny with the later I like the instrumental's, I just don't like Noble Surfer or Finder's Keepers.

I can't say I agree with everything on Jeff's list, but it's much more aligned with my feelings, especially the earlier albums. For me, the only album with perfect flow and no filler is Pet Sounds.

I'll second Luther's point that a lot about an album's flow involves getting used to it. But I think it's worth noting that just because something is filler doesn't mean it's bad, or unlistenable. I like listening to Surfer Girl in sequence even though I don't think everything on there is that great. Same reason I don't skip "Pom Pom Playgirl" when listening to Shut Down, Vol. II; complex, fitting? Sure. But I wouldn't call it a gem.

I'd say pretty much all of 'Surfin' Safari' bar the title track and 409 are filler. It wasn't uncommon in the early sixties for groups to package one hit around a bunch of afterthoughts and call it an album.

As much as I love "Surfin' USA", 5 surf instrumentals is definitely an album padding ploy.

Surfing songs man!! Instrumentals are the go!

Perhaps but I like the sound of them. It was a real Surf Music album because of that.

I think it's quite brave of Jeff to identify so many 'second tier' tracks like that. I think we all realise that the BBs weren't entirely consistent in the quality of their output. However, I'd be reluctant to describe all of these as just 'filler' as in the early days BB albums were comprised almost entirely of these tracks, and the genuinely great material was limited sometimes to three or four tracks per album.

In truth, while I'm happy to listen to even the crap stuff on the early BB albums, I'd be sad if we didn't have these from your list:


Ballad Of Ole' Betsy (especially this)

A Young Man Is Gone

Pom-Pom Play Girl (and this)

She's Goin' Bald (actually, and this too!)

Make It Good

And, to be honest I hate to admit that I've tended to consider I'm Waiting For The Day and I Know There's an Answer on PS as filler, though, I guess in comparison to GOK, DT (PYHOMS), WIBN etc. its easy for them to seem inferior.

Hey Jeff, if you fancy compiling a list of filler tracks from post '73 I'd love to see it!  :)

Can I put in a good word for Holland?
It's easy to knock the post-60s stuff, Jack Rieley, etc.... the poetic ramblings, the lack of any real BW input apart from Sailor, etc etc - but in February 1973, that LP really seemed to flow!
Love Wild Honey and Friends throughout too. Surf's Up if only SDT had been chopped for Wouldn't it be nice TLA.

I think the first album not to have any intentional filler is Pet Sounds. All of the albums from then until Holland I think the band members actually tried their best on (apart from Brian maybe). After that, you could argue that including songs from 1970 on Love You and 15BO constitutes filler. From MIU to BB85 I don't think there's anything too fillery (lots of bad songs though) but I think Al has been quoted as saying that Santa Ana Winds was seen to be just that. SC obviously has the oldies whilst SIP, despite its naffness, doesn't have any songs intended just to take up time I think.

I'll second that. In addition I also think SIP flows quite well (except for maybe one song that shall remain nameless). I actually enjoy SIP. Now, providing people aren't getting ready to brandish pitchforks and torches, I'll continue.

I think Holland is rather filler-less, but it's flow (to me) is compromised somewhat by Leaving This Town. Doesn't detract from the album though. Are we counting S&S? Oh I do wish more people would count S&S (seriously, torches away). Though in S&S's case it's not really so much about filler as the choice of songs.

I honestly don't think 20/20 has any filler and it flows well for me, variety is always nice.

Hmmmm. Does raise the interesting question as to what type of song could be classified as filler on an album that is basically shite from start to finish?

Why does every single conversation here denigrate to this level of response?

I saw nothing wrong with that? It's hardly a controversial opinion to have!

Well, I did. We're talking flow and filler, and all he adds is his last five words. Those five words add absolutely nothing to the topic.

I meant that they are filler. 20/20 is full of good songs, but it doesn't flow well. Summer in Paradise, 15 Big Ones, and BB85 all have a better flow. A flow of low quality. I should have also said TM on the Friends album.

Sorry if I offended you Mr. Stamos.

Now THAT'S offensive  :lol

What a dickwad! Stay on topic, thanks.

Wow, That's cool!  John Stamos is posting as drbeachboy ? 
Who else might be using a nom de plume here,  to say things for which they might otherwise be castized?

That's a tad harsh. I'd love to share your view on Summer In Paradise, but alas, I can't get my head that far up my backside.

I think the only post-1962 A-side on my list is Bluebirds Over the Mountain.  I suppose you're right that it isn't really filler ... but IMO it's barely listenable except for the short tag.

No need to feel bad for me, because while all of the two-fers contain filler, most of them also contain a number of good songs.  I actually bought several of them twice (1990 version and then 2001 version), so I knew what I was getting the second time.

And of course, with the magic of CDRs, Squeezebox, etc., it's easy to create homemade comps that weed out the filler.

Post-73 is a lot tougher for me, because IMO the band changed what it was trying to do.  Other than Love You and a few other interesting songs, they started going for the quick 'n easy hit like Rock and Roll Music, which I think is terrible, but reached No. 5.  And post-1980, it was more Beach Boys Tribute Band than Beach Boys, but you can't really call Kokomo filler.

As for what I like: Had to Phone Ya, Just Once in My Life, My Diane, Everybody Wants to Live, Baby Blue, Angel Come Home, Good Timin', Love Surrounds Me, the demos of It's Over Now and Still I Dream of It, and all of Love You except Love Is a Woman.

that'd be one hell of an album.

drbeachboy, if we have to filter out all replies that are (partly) off-topic, then we'd have a 24/7 job here. And may I remind you of certain rules regarding name-calling? Totally unnecesary; I'm sure you're able to find better words to express you don't agree.

And what if I took being called John Stamos as the ultimate insult? What if I just happen to be John Stamos and my name is used to insult people? I/He sang on that fabulous album. ;)

I think Brian tried his best during that 67-72 time but by 1972 he couldn't do what he had as recently as 1970. Look at it this way he was a full time studio Beach Boy through Friends. 20/20 half there, Sunflower 90 percent there, Surf's Up about 80 percent there (if not nearly as active writing wise) and around a third there for So Tough and Holland. I see it as Brian controlling if and when he would work with the group. By 1976 it seems like things were forced out of him and then I think in terms of The Beach Boys he wasn't always giving it his best from 1976-96 in the studio or on stage. Before that it was just his slowly worsenening depression, mental issues, and drug addiction. Certainly they all played a role later (a much bigger one as they got worse) but I feel in a way Brian kind of gave up after his dad died. He's done some great work since then but I think when he lost his voice something special was gone forever.

I guess it depends on what is meant by the term, 'trying one's best'. Within the contraints of the mental problems that he had he probably did try his best. But with something like Smiley Smile I don't think that many could claim that he was genuinely trying to record those songs to the best of his ability. It actually sounds like an album rush recorded in order to appease the label and you could claim that there is more filler on that album than on something like SIP. That has nothing to do with song quality but everything to do with the idea that Brian was hurrying to complete songs to get any old album out.

Yes Smiley is far from their best LP but I have a 1968 Brian interview with J. Marks and he talks about how much fun these sessions were for him and the group. Listen to the outtakes and you really do hear a nice upbeat vibe. Granted I do feel they wanted just to get an album out, but I think right or wrong it really was what Brian wanted to do with the songs at that point.

I think Mike Love would take sue you!

Smiley would be perfect up to Good Vibrations which blows everything outta the water on SS...If the GV rehearsal from Lei'd in Hawaii were in the single version's place on SS, then SS would have the perfect album flow.

How could calling someone John Stamos be regarded as an insult? I love John Stamos. He's easily my ninth or tenth favourite Beach Boy.

I said "What If", not that I was, though I could've been. You and I both know how you meant it, don't we? ;) Also, my apologies to you for calling you a name. Sometimes this place just gets me all riled up and I overreact.

No worries, I've been called worse.  ;D

The Surfer Moon?Pom-Pom Play Girl?Hully Gully?Papa-Oom-Mow-Mow ?(wow those are 4 awesome songs) :]

i agree with u completely those 2 songs are way too good 2 considered filler material :)

"The Shift" filler?? Ye gods! I wrote this ages ago but my opinion hasn't changed a jot since then:

I have often wondered why no-one (to my knowledge) has ever mentioned "The Shift" (first album, final track) as a pointer to the future. Most reviews quickly dismiss it as "a fashion statement by Brian and Mike" or words to that effect. On the face of it, the main tune is a 12-bar blues (I I I I IV IV I I V IV I V). However, Brian "shifts" the key up a whole tone in bar 3 and back down again in bar 12 (in Carl's solo too). As far as I know this is unique----no-one else has ever done this. Still, we're talking about Brian Wilson so perhaps it's not so surprising after all.

Well, I just don't like you at all.

The only tracks that disrupt the perfect flow of my listening pleasure are "Cassius..." and "All I Want To Do".

That's up to and including Holland. After that it gets messy.   

Wild Honey - Mama Says
Smiley - Whistlin (okey the entire album is so weird it's hard to make out 'filler' material)
LA - Shortenin Bread (would never make the cut if they had something half decent to throw it, or maybe it was a carrot for Brian?)
Friends - Passing By (VERY NICE filler, but still filler imo)

Haha. The big question is: At what point does an album stop having fillers and just become a crap album?!

Pet Sounds and Smiley Smile and Smile Sessions, no filler IMHO.

This may sound odd to some of you, but if you haven't sat back and truly listened to the LDC album, songs in order as on the lp from start to finish, you might be in for a treat.  This lp stands in terms of content, theme, melody, and harmony.  It has flow and I don't hear filler.

I totally agree!
The a album gets grief because of songs previously released on earlier albums (LDC, SD, and 409), but speaking only in terms of flow and lack of filler, this album is a pure gem! Love the LP version of Be True, the vocals on Betsy, Custom Machine, No Go, and Car Crazy are fab! So what if Car Crazy Cutie is a re-write of Pamela Jean and Cherry Coup is a rewrite of Land Ahoy. Just take the LP as is and it's a GAS! No pun intended.

To me, both songs work better in their re-written form on LDC. I think it is a great album, as well. The three peviously released songs work much better here than on the originals from which they came.

L.A. except the last awful cut.

The spoken word tracks on the 64-5 albums dont make the whole album filler!! To me all these albums are perfect, joke tracks , instros, whatever, love it all : surfer girl, shut down vol2, all summer long, today, summer days, pet sounds, smiley smile, wild honey, 20/20, sunflower, holland, and love you ALL great!   Surfin safari was ok,  I love surfin usa but ya can tell it was a surf music cash-in, little deuce coupe great but one third is rereleased , friends is great but not the strongest album, surfs up is good but I would consider it secondary, and anything after love you is NOT worth it until youve gotten everything from 63 to 77.

I always thought "I'm so young" was filler and didn't seem to fit the rest of the album , and of course those silly "talking tracks" on the various albums..

Awww. Why does "I'm So Young" get so much stick? That coda alone puts it in my BB top ten... 

Thats what I meant by joke tracks- cassius vs sonny, our fav sessions, bugged at my ol man and bull session, those are prevalent throwaways... but there wasnt a single band that didnt have on purpose filler tracks .

It has a fantastic bass line, as well. For me, this is a cover that Brian and the Boys made their own.

 Most Beach Boys' albums, even the best, have some filler. Although it isn't my favorite of the 63-65 albums, Surfer Girl has very little padding for a 1963 rock LP.

The "filler" was a song or two at the most and they didnt have as much filler as the beatles, specially post-revolver, and the majority of every other group at that time and since right-

Man, since reading this thread, I can't believe how many mention a disliking for Shortenin Bread, but no mention of hate for Here Comes the Night. I enjoy the whole album, I look at the Shortenin Bread ending as a jam after all those slow and/or sad songs...much like the ending to the Friends album with the Transendental Meditation studio band jam.

Perhaps this is too off topic, but I'd love to see a list of what you think is filler within the whole Beatles Discography.

I gotta agree with you Punkinhead. Shortenin Bread ends the LP on an up note.

.