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Smiley Smile Stuff => General On Topic Discussions => Topic started by: Ed Roach on May 01, 2011, 08:54:31 AM



Title: Who Really Owns Gershwin?
Post by: Ed Roach on May 01, 2011, 08:54:31 AM

Recent recordings of George Gershwin's concert works and 'Porgy and Bess' may not be Americans' idea of Gershwin — but is Gershwin, played with love and care and imagination.

By Mark Swed, Los Angeles Times Music Critic
 
May 1, 2011

"Who says that only Americans know how to play Gershwin?" asks Gramophone magazine this month as it hails a new Gershwin CD from the Leipzig Gewandhaus, the German orchestra that calls itself the world's oldest. "By this time possibly nobody," the British record guide answers its rhetorical self.

But if you ain't got that swing ....

The Leipzigers' new recording of "Rhapsody in Blue" and the Piano Concerto in F features the ancient orchestra's current music director, Riccardo Chailly, and pianist Stefano Bollani. Both are Italian. The playing from ensemble and soloist is lovely. The jazziness comes across, depending on your fondness for foreign accents, as fetchingly feisty or as conveying a faint whiff of condescension.

We also have a recent recording of "Porgy and Bess" from Austria conducted by Nikolaus Harnoncourt, the once-controversial leader of the Vienna chapter of the early music period-instrument movement back in the '60s and now lionized all-around conductor. A few months before his 80th birthday, Harnoncourt realized a lifelong wish of performing "Porgy," which he calls an American "Wozzeck," at a 2009 summer festival in Graz. The recording of that concert performance shows that he means it.

So who really owns Gershwin? An American might answer: Leonard Bernstein, André Previn, Oscar Levant, Duke Ellington, Michael Tilson Thomas, Miles Davis, Earl Wild, Fred Astaire, Sarah Vaughan, William Bolcom, James Levine, Marcus Roberts and Audra McDonald.

........................... http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/news/la-ca-gershwin-interpreted-20110501,0,2481341.story .........

Americans, though, don't dare become sanctimonious. This may not be our Gershwin, but it is Gershwin, played with love and care and imagination. We continue to hold a cultural deed on the composer, but that doesn't mean that we can automatically be counted on to take the best care of his music or keep it fresh. Last year's most hyped Gershwin release was the embarrassingly all-American yet musically incompetent "Brian Wilson Reimagines Gershwin."

On the other hand, the Europeans, like it or not, really do re-imagine Gershwin.

mark.swed@latimes.com
Copyright © 2011, Los Angeles Times





Title: Re: Who Really Owns Gershwin?
Post by: Wrightfan on May 01, 2011, 09:04:54 AM
This sounds like the kind of person who eats caviar out of a paper bowl.


Title: Re: Who Really Owns Gershwin?
Post by: bgas on May 01, 2011, 09:31:42 AM
Ha!  the old movie about the Gershwins was on TV last night , and I watched most of it, tho I fell asleep at times...


Title: Re: Who Really Owns Gershwin?
Post by: SloopJohnB on May 01, 2011, 02:51:09 PM
"Musically incompetent"? Phew, that's harsh. BWRG is not my favorite album by any means, but...


Title: Re: Who Really Owns Gershwin?
Post by: juggler on May 01, 2011, 03:13:45 PM
Quote
Last year's most hyped Gershwin release was the embarrassingly all-American yet musically incompetent "Brian Wilson Reimagines Gershwin."


It ain't necessarily so.

Shoot me.  I actually like BWRG.  I resisted it at first and didn't even get it when it was first released.  Now, I probably listen to it more than any other BW solo album.



Title: Re: Who Really Owns Gershwin?
Post by: Peter Reum on May 01, 2011, 03:32:13 PM
With all due respect to the LA Times, a paper I like...I am Gershwinophile, And HAVE most of the recordings this man cites. They are no better than Brian`s cd....this particular critic is simply a snob who prefers Gershwin`s concert works to collections of his  songs.


Title: Re: Who Really Owns Gershwin?
Post by: Curtis Leon on May 01, 2011, 03:44:16 PM
Embarrassingly all-American? Maybe. Musically incompetent? Not a chance in hell.


Title: Re: Who Really Owns Gershwin?
Post by: OBLiO on May 01, 2011, 03:46:45 PM
Ha!  the old movie about the Gershwins was on TV last night , and I watched most of it, tho I fell asleep at times...

I watched it too! Shall We Dance was on after that and then Debbie Reynolds dancing with Bob Fosse. Gower and Marge Champion. 3 good ones in a row.

That critic is more of an opera critic and he killed his entire argument by trying to make someone else look bad to make his point. Leave it to a critic to knock a guy with his own recognizable signature sound having a good time playing Gershwin to sell papers. It's just as valid and opens doors for more people to hear Gershwin's music.


Title: Re: Who Really Owns Gershwin?
Post by: guitarfool2002 on May 01, 2011, 04:26:17 PM
We should lock this critic in a room with an endless loop of jam bands playing Summertime and Swedish piano trios plodding through 44 choruses of "I Got Rhythm" until he learns what musically incompetent really means.


Title: Re: Who Really Owns Gershwin?
Post by: TdHabib on May 01, 2011, 04:51:20 PM
Brian did an amazing job with the Gershwin album last year, let Mark Swed say what he wants, we'll know the truth...


Title: Re: Who Really Owns Gershwin?
Post by: lance on May 03, 2011, 08:06:09 PM
The Gershwin packed is a production tour-de-force, in my opinion. Critic is idiot.


Title: Re: Who Really Owns Gershwin?
Post by: rab2591 on May 03, 2011, 08:11:26 PM
I'm still on the fence about BWRG. I will say that Brian's version of 'Someone To Watch Over Me' is one of my favorite songs ever.

This criticism by Mr. Swed is music snobbery at its finest. If you like a work of art, tell us why you like it; but don't compare it with another work that you deem less worthy...don't even bring it up. It cheapens your article.


Title: Re: Who Really Owns Gershwin?
Post by: Myk Luhv on May 03, 2011, 08:16:39 PM
It would have been cool if he at least explained why he thought BWRG is a terrible album. What a cheap barb.


Title: Re: Who Really Owns Gershwin?
Post by: filledeplage on May 04, 2011, 07:41:39 AM

Recent recordings of George Gershwin's concert works and 'Porgy and Bess' may not be Americans' idea of Gershwin — but is Gershwin, played with love and care and imagination.

By Mark Swed, Los Angeles Times Music Critic
 
May 1, 2011

"Who says that only Americans know how to play Gershwin?" asks Gramophone magazine this month as it hails a new Gershwin CD from the Leipzig Gewandhaus, the German orchestra that calls itself the world's oldest. "By this time possibly nobody," the British record guide answers its rhetorical self.

But if you ain't got that swing ....

The Leipzigers' new recording of "Rhapsody in Blue" and the Piano Concerto in F features the ancient orchestra's current music director, Riccardo Chailly, and pianist Stefano Bollani. Both are Italian. The playing from ensemble and soloist is lovely. The jazziness comes across, depending on your fondness for foreign accents, as fetchingly feisty or as conveying a faint whiff of condescension.

We also have a recent recording of "Porgy and Bess" from Austria conducted by Nikolaus Harnoncourt, the once-controversial leader of the Vienna chapter of the early music period-instrument movement back in the '60s and now lionized all-around conductor. A few months before his 80th birthday, Harnoncourt realized a lifelong wish of performing "Porgy," which he calls an American "Wozzeck," at a 2009 summer festival in Graz. The recording of that concert performance shows that he means it.

So who really owns Gershwin? An American might answer: Leonard Bernstein, André Previn, Oscar Levant, Duke Ellington, Michael Tilson Thomas, Miles Davis, Earl Wild, Fred Astaire, Sarah Vaughan, William Bolcom, James Levine, Marcus Roberts and Audra McDonald.

........................... http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/news/la-ca-gershwin-interpreted-20110501,0,2481341.story .........

Americans, though, don't dare become sanctimonious. This may not be our Gershwin, but it is Gershwin, played with love and care and imagination. We continue to hold a cultural deed on the composer, but that doesn't mean that we can automatically be counted on to take the best care of his music or keep it fresh. Last year's most hyped Gershwin release was the embarrassingly all-American yet musically incompetent "Brian Wilson Reimagines Gershwin."

On the other hand, the Europeans, like it or not, really do re-imagine Gershwin.

mark.swed@latimes.com
Copyright © 2011, Los Angeles Times


Thanks, Ed for posting this article...Perhaps the author should see this short clip before he started on Prokofiev...Disney was a stickler for authenticity.  I used to show this video (in its entirety) to the kids in school, before we viewed the Peter and the Wolf movie, so they did not regard it as a cartoon, although it was animated...

Thanks YouTube...   www.youtube.com/watch?v=QaHc01uwGXg

Hope the link works. Otherwise search Walt Disney Prokofiev Peter and the Wolf and it should come up.  Disney took classical music to the people.  His successors did the same thing for authenticity with Beauty and the Beast, going back to the old 19th century music manuscripts for a base for the score. 

It seems to be noted in other comments that the article is obnoxiously elitist...Even Shakespeare had a place for the "groundlings" to be at a performance and we have "bleacher seats" at baseball game.

Music is for us all; not just for the "highly born" - I hope there is a fully authenticated rebuttal in that paper.  Many who post here, are certainly capable of the task.   

Gershwin's work is an American Story by definition.  He is a national treasure, but that does not exlude inclusion of Chopin, Bizet, Beethoven, Mozart, or any other composer. 

Last time I checked, Music was still the "universal language."  ;)




Title: Re: Who Really Owns Gershwin?
Post by: Ed Roach on May 04, 2011, 08:59:54 AM

Thanks, Ed for posting this article...Perhaps the author should see this short clip before he started on Prokofiev...Disney was a stickler for authenticity.  I used to show this video (in its entirety) to the kids in school, before we viewed the Peter and the Wolf movie, so they did not regard it as a cartoon, although it was animated...

Thanks YouTube...   www.youtube.com/watch?v=QaHc01uwGXg

Hope the link works. Otherwise search Walt Disney Prokofiev Peter and the Wolf and it should come up.  Disney took classical music to the people.     


You're quite welcome.  I actually started posting this in the General Music Discussion section without even finishing the whole article.  Fortunately I caught the Brian reference and switched it here, although I obviously disagree with this critics sentiments, too.
As for Disney, I'm eternally grateful to him for my first exposure to Stravinsky & The Rite of Spring with my first viewing of Fantasia about fiftyfive years ago...  And let's not forget the incredible work he did with his Silly Symphonies, too!


Title: Re: Who Really Owns Gershwin?
Post by: filledeplage on May 04, 2011, 09:41:15 AM

Thanks, Ed for posting this article...Perhaps the author should see this short clip before he started on Prokofiev...Disney was a stickler for authenticity.  I used to show this video (in its entirety) to the kids in school, before we viewed the Peter and the Wolf movie, so they did not regard it as a cartoon, although it was animated...

Thanks YouTube...   www.youtube.com/watch?v=QaHc01uwGXg

Hope the link works. Otherwise search Walt Disney Prokofiev Peter and the Wolf and it should come up.  Disney took classical music to the people.     


You're quite welcome.  I actually started posting this in the General Music Discussion section without even finishing the whole article.  Fortunately I caught the Brian reference and switched it here, although I obviously disagree with this critics sentiments, too.
As for Disney, I'm eternally grateful to him for my first exposure to Stravinsky & The Rite of Spring with my first viewing of Fantasia about fiftyfive years ago...  And let's not forget the incredible work he did with his Silly Symphonies, too!

Ed, I am SO glad you posted it here, I don't usually read the other sections, unless they are the "Go to Detention" (Sandbox)
for the renegades...I am a real Disney follower, and had dreamed of doing my doctorate on the integration of his work into education (that is a general statement, not my actual former thesis) I had been given an anthology of his music, by one of my brothers, decades ago, which became my  school "standards" book, to connect music, drama and literature.  It was fun. (I must disclaim that I used what I "could play" or find transposed in a key that I could play, within the kids vocal range. )  I am a "hack"  - but Fantasia and the Silly Symphonies, with those early animated (read Who's Afraid of the Big Bad Wolf!) artworks are timeless and children still love them.  My personal favorite is the cartoon with the pig playing the brick piano!  ;) (The 4 year olds would roar laughing, when they figured out "what is wrong with this picture?") It was a lot of fun, getting paid, using Disney.  His work was so clever.  (Sorry for the digresion...)   

And, I do hope someone counters this article in the paper, and not just a web response/comment, as an full op-ed to hold this guy's feet to the fire.  It is particularly shameful that it is a CA newspaper;  no one wants slanted, one-sided news, but something more balanced and this article certainly was not IMHO. 




Title: Re: Who Really Owns Gershwin?
Post by: The Heartical Don on May 04, 2011, 11:16:19 AM
Actually I had to laugh about Swed's text. Bit of a jolly old name-dropper, that Mark. And he's wrong about Brian's project, but I don't find that very irritating, or even noteworthy at all. Swed sounds like the Crane brothers, Frasier and Niles, discussing Gershwin after an evening with fine brandy and even finer Cuban cigars.

Incidentally, Swed mentions 'Gramophone'. I can wholeheartedly recommend that magazine to everone interested in classical music. Gramophone is full of good taste, but not elitist or nit-picking at all. It rejoices in explaining the beauty of classical music, and of memorable performances thereof. Its staff consists of true experts (read: teachers). And it has a great website, with an enormous archive of reviews (subscription is for free).

Go to: www.gramophone.co.uk


Title: Re: Who Really Owns Gershwin?
Post by: filledeplage on May 04, 2011, 05:06:24 PM
Actually I had to laugh about Swed's text. Bit of a jolly old name-dropper, that Mark. And he's wrong about Brian's project, but I don't find that very irritating, or even noteworthy at all. Swed sounds like the Crane brothers, Frasier and Niles, discussing Gershwin after an evening with fine brandy and even finer Cuban cigars.

Incidentally, Swed mentions 'Gramophone'. I can wholeheartedly recommend that magazine to everone interested in classical music. Gramophone is full of good taste, but not elitist or nit-picking at all. It rejoices in explaining the beauty of classical music, and of memorable performances thereof. Its staff consists of true experts (read: teachers). And it has a great website, with an enormous archive of reviews (subscription is for free).

Go to: www.gramophone.co.uk


Oh, Professor - Your skin is thicker than mine!  I was offended by it...My other hat told me that if you don't rebut a statement, it can be taken for fact, almost in the sense of when someone is charged with a crime and does not declare his or her innocence, a presumption of fault can be found.  But that aside, it was pretty insulting almost alleging it is "Gershwin lite" and although he did not say that directly, one could infer it.

Ah...the experts...maybe...

But, I nominate YOU to pen the rebuttal! O Great Learned One!  ;) 



Title: You think that's bad?
Post by: WaxOn on May 07, 2011, 01:53:40 PM
Have you all seen this?
http://phoebetv.com/msd/brian-wilson-reimagining-gershwin/ (http://phoebetv.com/msd/brian-wilson-reimagining-gershwin/)
This Gal is trying to be funny and fails on so many levels.
I guess having somebody give her a history lesson was supposed to give her more "gravitas".
Instead,  the only argument she winds up making is that women can be dicks too.

Personally, I bailed on her about 2/3 of the way through.

I don't think BWRG is 100% great. There are some clunkers, but also some very well done arrangements. His love of the music is obviously heartfelt and sincere. If it introduces some folks to a composer and music they might not have heard otherwise, so much the better.

I totally look forward to hearing him perform the album this summer.


Title: Re: Who Really Owns Gershwin?
Post by: smile-holland on May 07, 2011, 02:46:41 PM
That was so bad, it was almost laughable.
Now how many errors ocurred in this brief story on the Beach Boys and Brian?


Title: Re: You think that's bad?
Post by: filledeplage on May 07, 2011, 03:04:03 PM
Have you all seen this?
http://phoebetv.com/msd/brian-wilson-reimagining-gershwin/ (http://phoebetv.com/msd/brian-wilson-reimagining-gershwin/)
This Gal is trying to be funny and fails on so many levels.
I guess having somebody give her a history lesson was supposed to give her more "gravitas".
Instead,  the only argument she winds up making is that women can be dicks too.

Personally, I bailed on her about 2/3 of the way through.

I don't think BWRG is 100% great. There are some clunkers, but also some very well done arrangements. His love of the music is obviously heartfelt and sincere. If it introduces some folks to a composer and music they might not have heard otherwise, so much the better.

I totally look forward to hearing him perform the album this summer.

Yikes - My mother always said, "Consider the source."

She wears the same snug brown frock to review Tupac Shakur...

The doc was relatively kind to Brian, when you see what she does to Tupac.

http://vimeo.com/6421506

She is not reviewing music, as much as editorializing on the musicians personal events, in their respective lives.

She does The Pretenders as well, you can find the link in a related video section...First time I ever heard of her (I must be sheltered!) refers to herself as "Doctor" but freely employs the disrespectful term, "retarded" - very tasteless in my book.  

I like Brian's Gershwin, if for no other reason, than he loves it, and his lifetime devotion to this composer is transparent.  I agree with you, WaxOn!  ;)

Three for three negative reviews.  Does she like anyone?



 





Title: Re: You think that's bad?
Post by: WaxOn on May 07, 2011, 04:52:26 PM
Three for three negative reviews.  Does she like anyone?

Actually, there's navigation on the sidebar of my link to dozens of reviews in alphabetic order.
Does she like anyone?
Besides herself, it seems the artists and their listeners are all contemptible.

She lays into Alice Cooper, The Beatles, and Elvis. Chronology and factual history don't really seem to matter. If the artist is dead, that's usually a joke of some kind too. http://phoebetv.com/msd/elvis-presley-elvis-75-good-rockin-tonight/ NSFEF (Not Safe for Elvis Fans)

I actually had managed to not know who she was until I stumbled on her after searching for info on BWRG last year - and saw "trainwreck" in the search terms. I thought it meant the album, not the reviewer.
 :wink


Title: Re: Who Really Owns Gershwin?
Post by: Chris Brown on May 07, 2011, 08:45:02 PM
Wow - either she's a completely uninformed moron, or a very talented satirist.


Title: Re: Who Really Owns Gershwin?
Post by: WaxOn on May 07, 2011, 09:17:19 PM
Wow - either she's a completely uninformed moron, or a very talented satirist.

You're half right - she's an uninformed satirist and a talented moron!  ;D


Title: Re: Who Really Owns Gershwin?
Post by: filledeplage on May 08, 2011, 06:21:16 AM
Or, is she auditioning for SNL?  ;)

The good doctor may have an agenda apart from her caustic music critiques!