The Smiley Smile Message Board

Hi all...interesting tidbit to put out there.  As a lot of you know I play with the Standells.  Yesterday in rehearsal I mentioned I was going to Phoenix to do a Beach Boys tribute band gig and Larry Tamblyn shared an anecdote of backing the Beach Boys -- on guitar no less -- at a very early gig.  He claimed that none of the band played an instrument (just stood and sang) save Dennis, who had a rudimentary drum kit.  He mentioned the venue as well...something Gardens IIRC.

I was intrigued by this because this doesn't jibe with any early history I'm aware of, but his memory was very specific.  And he was around and playing at the critical time.  Any thoughts on this?

I'm certain Ian would like to speak with Larry to get more details of the gig in question. It could be one of their gigs at Rainbow Gardens in Pomona; would be cool for him to cough up more details!  Does he have any photos? 

Wouldn't Carl by this time in the band's history have had his own guitar and most likely would have played it at a show? The early silent home movies and earliest known video of the band shows them sporting nice Fender equipment and full Gretsch drums. That "One Man's Challenge" film was shot July 1962 showing the Fender/Gretsch gear, and didn't they get the Fender gear around February 1962?

The only 1961/2 shows - that we know of - with "Gardens" in the venue name is Rainbow Gardens (a dancehall), Pomona CA on the following 1962 dates:

February 16th - very likely David's first show (and the band's 5th ever recorded gig)
February 17th
March 9th
March 23rd
March 30th

Without wishing to seem disrespectful to your bandmate, Adam, my experience is that memories can fade over the years, possibly the classic example being the much reported 40 date midwest summer tour of 1962... which was actually in 1963. That said, of course it's possible they either didn't bring their instruments (or forgot) and asked The Standells to back them up. The slight fly in this ointment was that The Standells themselves were only formed in 1962. As usual, confusion ensues.  ;D

No disrespect taken, I always take these things with a grain of salt.  But he was very specific about the memory which gave me pause, and it appears he got the venue right (because I think it was the Rainbow Gardens).

It's quite possible he confused them with another band on the same bill?  But then again, if he actually backed them, you'd think he'd know the difference?

The Standells being formed then isn't really relevant -- Larry said HE backed them up, not the Standells.  Larry was playing and recording pre-Standells...he certainly could have been there. It seems pretty likely he was on the gig in some capacity...I wonder what the format of the show was?  If the BBs were part of a larger bill, they might have been required to use the house band?  Or perhaps were on some specific occasion?  I have no idea.  Or if the BBs got their gear in Feb. '62, is it possible they hadn't bought it yet?  A very intriguing thought.  It might have been that very first gig Larry was at.

Oops, my bad.


There's a photo from February 10th 1962 showing the band with their instruments - it's the well known one with the guy looking through the window behind them. Here - http://davidleemarks.com/#/photos/4548759649 (http://davidleemarks.com/#/photos/4548759649) - top left.

That said, the 'house band' suggestion is a fine one. Here's the venue -

(http://content.ci.pomona.ca.us/cgi-bin/getimage.exe?CISOROOT=%2FFrasher&CISOPTR=4788&DMWIDTH=640&DMHEIGHT=410&DMSCALE=100&DMX=0&DMY=0&DMTEXT=&REC=3&DMTHUMB=1&DMROTATE=0)

- and from the size I'm guessing it was indeed a multi-act bill.

Hey, is there new info that hasn't hit your( Ian) website?  That pic is dated MARCH 10th, 1962  as far as I know. 

OK, that proves it - my eyesight is seriously worse than I though it was. You're correct and I can't even read my own website properly. Phooey.  >:(

Which of course means I got this wrong too:

February 16th - very likely David's first show (and the band's 5th ever recorded gig)
February 17th
March 9th
March 23rd
March 30th.

Try:

February 16th - first show as a four piece after Alan's departure (and the band's 5th ever recorded gig)
February 17th
March 9th - first Rainbow show with David.
March 23rd
March 30th

The way I understand the gear situation - and I defer to those who have done far more looking into this - Carl had something like a Kay guitar (mid-level), David was renting a Rickenbacker solidbody electric until he got a Fender, and the other equipment was a hodge-podge of similar lower level equipment. The notion of Dennis having a less than complete drum kit would make sense if it can be pegged to a certain date. But as the band became more serious and wanted to compete for the better shows and get away from the acoustic folk leanings of the Al Jardine type, they went to a heavier Fender backline of instruments and amps as shown in the photo on David's website. Looks to be a piggyback Showman or Bassman head and cabinet, a Tweed Bassman combo for bass,  Brian's P-Bass that he's shown playing on the Surfin Safari album, Carl's Strat, etc. The date of the Fender purchase is Feb. 1962, right? It seems they got gigs right after.

Beautiful instruments and amps fresh from the Fender factory, among the best sounding amps ever made. My opinion... :)

Even if the professional Fender gear had not been delivered yet by the time of the gig in question, the Boys would still have their previous guitars etc to play a show. I'm thinking this gig or show was more of an informal thing where they just got up and played and sang together.

Is it therefore possible that Adam's pal didn't so much back the BBs as fill in for Al for one night, before David joined on a permanent basis?

He seemed pretty specific in remembering that no one except Dennis had an instrument to play, so even if he filled in for Al during the transition that doesn't explain why Carl at least wouldn't have his guitar at the show, or Brian, or whoever else.

(http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n295/guitarfool2002/bbsold2.jpg)

(http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n295/guitarfool2002/bbsold.jpg)

if this guy's recollection is from one of the first four or five gigs, which is really all there were pre-Dave, then I would not be surprised if his recollection is at least partially correct. I've talked to Al about this, and by no means is his memory solid, but sometimes if you ask the right questions and the right follow-ups you can find some truth. Al told me Brian didn't play any instrument at the first few live gigs. He stood at the microphone with Mike. So right there you've got two BB's, no instruments. Brian probably didn't pick up the bass until Al left, even though there is the anecdotal comment from Brian that he bought a bass for the BB's second gig, it could have easily not been until the 4th or 5th gig. Al claims he lugged the standup to those early gigs and it was a bitch. No way you'd have two bass players. But what if lugging the giant bass became too inconvenient, then you'd potentially have three BB's (Mike, Brian and Al) with no instruments. The fact that Adam's friend says Dennis had a "rudimentary" drum kit falls in line with my research, because Dennis pieced his first kit together bit by bit. It wasn't until after Dave was in the band that he had all the pieces he wanted. So maybe during this gig Dennis has his Gretch bass drum and a snare, and one cymbal, or something, not yet possessing the full kit. And maybe Mike, Brian and Al stood out front and sang, with just Carl on guitar. Now if an issue arose with the old Kay guitar, who knows, maybe Carl was just a singer that night too. It easily could have happened because the BB's were barely a band at those first gigs. They were not thinking of themselves as anything more than a vocal group. Al's words..."I was resisting that trend to electric, I just wasn't enthusiastic about it. And as soon as i left they were able to bring that dimension up.They went to Fender equipment and David was already trained on that. It was Carl and Dave who brought that electric guitar drive into the band, and because of that Brian was able to expand a little bit." Again, it might be an only partially correct memory from Larry...but it would not surprise me at all if there was a degree of truth in what he told Adam.

Very interesting: I'm also reading into the decision to buy Fender equipment and get away from the folk sounds...it happened after Al left, according to Al, and he didn't want to "go electric" before he left. Was Al's role in the band that powerful at that time where he could sway the decision to switch to Fender gear to the point where they changed both the gear and their sound after he left?

Another issue for the musicians reading these posts: Personally, would you take a public, paid gig if your band didn't have instruments to play? Chances are the band would suck if they showed up with half a drum set and no guitars, unless you're doing a capella...but what are the chances of that? I'm just trying to work out the details where the Beach Boys show up for a gig and they have no gear except a few drums.

The picture of the ballroom is interesting, because it's more or less exactly how I pictured it based on how Larry described the gig.  It looks like they had a set orchestra at the place with their own stands.  if Larry was a house guitarist, and it was a multi-act bill, it's easy to sketch out a scenario where the BBs just showed up and sang.  He didn't specifically say so, but I got the impression that it wasn't so much that he was backing the BBs as a member, but that he was in the orchestra that night and the BBs were one of the people he backed up.

If so, this actually might be filling in a blank spot in the band's history.  Does anyone have a specific question or two I should ask him?  I will have to wait for the right moment, since it's not exactly Larry's biggest field of interest...but I can probably find out more about the gig if I time the questions correctly.

Sure - ask him how many Beach Boys there were, if you would. If he says 4, that dates it to the second half of February/first week of March. Also, although this is a longshot, if he recalls if they were wearing the check jackets.

The BB's sets were only a few songs at these first several gigs. It's not much of a stretch to think of them acting as a vocal group and not a band. You have to let go of all the poorly researched myths we've been bombarded with to be able to imagine this scenario is at least a possibility. There is no hard evidence of BB's MK1 setting up and playing as a "band", there are no photos...which seems weird to me. We really don't KNOW what the set up was. All we can do is guess, and sift through the anecdotes of the survivors.

Excellent point. None of the early promo shots - that is, before the back cover pics of Surfin' Safari - show the band with instruments. We know David, Carl & Alan had at least basic guitars, otherwise...

That said, the instrumentation for the 2nd Morgan session (2/8/62) had clearly improved on the string bass/snare/acoustic guitar (?) of the "Surfin'" session. Sounds like proper electric guitars and a drum kit (brushes certainly) - maybe a second rental ?

We know for sure they had their own instruments by March 9th.

I'm also basing my questions on what would be practical for a band, and absolutely the idea is valid that the Beach Boys at some point in time acted as a vocal-only group and would sing songs with a backing house band or other musicians. However, has this possibility ever been raised in any of the research? And if that were the case, why bring Denny's drums when by many accounts he was the least skilled at his instrument *at that time*, if we take late-61 early-62 as an approximate time frame? A house drummer could cover the parts.

Altogether this could be a very fascinating piece of the puzzle to add to the history of the band in their early stages. One of the keys seems to be if Al were there, if David were there, or if neither were there. Neither would make the story most plausible, alongside the question of how many band members were there at that gig.

If by proper electric guitars you could mean "Fender", that would fit perfectly with the report of them buying their Fender gear which they'd be photographed with for the next year or so in or around February 1962. Carl and David with Strats, Brian with P-Bass, and Fender amps. Makes a huge sonic difference.

The Mixtures was a happening band in SoCal back in the early 60's and I remember hearing about them from some of the older musicians I knew and they are talked about in a book by Matt Garcia called "A World of it's Own" - found an excerpt from the book about El Monte
http://www.elmontelegionstadium.com/world_of_its_own.PDF

The Mixtures were the house band at Rainbow Gardens and recorded their LP there with Wally Heider. Feb 12, 1962. According to Mark Guerrero's site, Larry Tamblyn played guitar on "Turkey Time"... http://www.markguerrero.com/31.php

That book "World of it's Own" is interesting in itself... gets into the cultural aspects of Los Angeles. Mark Guerrero reviews the book here: http://www.markguerrero.com/misc_36.php
sums it up.

It could have been a thing where Dennis brought his drums because he didn't want to play the other guy's kit or the other guy didn't want him to play his kit... that happens all the time. It could have been just guitar and drums backing the vocals... hard to say the exact set-up but the Mixtures were the happening back-up band at the time in the area.

Forgot to mention the name of the Mixtures record: "Stompin' At the Rainbow."

If only the members of the Mixtures had BBs memories!  But the ones I've talked to don't; and some have gone as far as saying they didn't even like the BBs/their type of music and had no interest in them at all.  ( which is a good reason not to remember)
Mark Guerrero is a GREAT GUY! 

As to Dennis, I'd say it could be that he didn't like singing that much, didn't want to be forced into that position, and so he brought what kit he had, so he could stay in the background. 

Just as an aside, when I went up to Berkeley a couple of weeks ago to see Al, I wore my Beach Boys Pendleton t-shirt. Al commented on it and he said he gave Dave his Pendleton shirt. I assume that was back in early '62 when he left the band.

I don't know if I ever met Mark, but it is possible... I have read that book though and his site came up when I ran a search to help figure this out, hence the links... it's in the book though about the kids not wanting to hear surf music there. But a gig is a gig and they were getting in on that circuit... more than likely as a vocal group... could be that if bands didn't want to back them up, they could have just said "look we need to play our own instruments" to keep on gigging and not worry about getting a band to back them up.

Re: The instruments-thing:
First, yes, I could see the BBs perform as a vocals only group. They probably sang Surfin' and then some standards like Their Hearts Were....,etc. maybe even one of Murry's tunes (just speculation). Of course this would not be at an event for teenagers, but I don't think they played only that kind of stuff
But did anyone ever think about the easiest answer? Maybe a string on Carl's guitar broke and he didn't have any new ones with him. Jon explained why Brian and Al might not have had their gear with them

You'd have to assume then that the fill-in guitarist Mr. Tamblyn that night knew the songs the Beach Boys were going to play well enough to back them up. It would be easier to assume Carl could have borrowed another guitar to play the songs, but that remains to be seen.

I guess there isn't enough information yet to assume much of anything with this, so the Beach Boys showing up as an a capella group that night will have to stand until more info comes out. I just went on the premise Mr. Tamblyn was inferring he played guitar because the Beach Boys didn't have a guitar, which leaves Carl out of the equation, and after Feb 1962 still wouldn't seem logical to me.

Well we now have independent corroboration that the Mixtures were the house band in '62, and that Larry Tamblyn played guitar with them in the relevant time frame, so Larry's story is holding up pretty well at this point.  This could be a key anecdote if we could find out more about this gig or gigs.

I'll see what I can find out.  I'm going on a tour with them in May so there'll be a lot of road time to kill to shoot the sh*t.

I will add this-as Jon has pointed out there is not a single photo of the BBs with Al in the Nov 61-Mar 62 BB Mark 1 period.  We always hear about how the band started in Nov 61 but I think it is fair to say that at first it may have been more of a lark than a career.  There isn't much evidence that they were playing tons of gigs in that period--more like every weekend since they had class during the week.  No ads exist for the Rainbow Gardens shows-so the dates may or may not be correct (though there is no doubt that they played there).  As to whether they were a 4 piece-we assume they were since Al seems to have left in February-but the exact details are fuzzy. I have never met anyone who actually says they were at one of those shows and what the band looked like.

By the way-speaking of the Mixtures-I saw a piece on them where they recalled playing at Pop Leuder's in Compton with the Beach Boys on a bunch of occasions in 1962.  Obviously Compton was a very different town back then.

Pop Leuders Park?  " at the time Compton had a large white population" ( Mark Guerrero)
Considering that we know little to nothing about the jobs they did, up to the time that Dave starting playing in the band: 
A lot of the shows at that time were multiple artist shows, and really, a group would probably only play one or two songs and then on to the next group; or as may be where there's a house Band like The Mixtures, the house band plays some songs for people to do some dancing, and then the naxt act comes on. The BBs were probably one act among many, doing Surfin and maybe one or two others. How hard is it to play the backing track for Surfin? Especially for a tight band like the Mixtures? 
There are people that saw these shows, we just have to find them.
Just sayin.

I would also ask Larry Tamblyn about the gigs in San Diego... if they were backed by the Mixtures in Pomona that Friday and Saturday night they may have travelled to San Diego with them, too. Even if Larry played one night at the Rainbow he might have heard their plans for the following week. Unless that info is already out there and I missed it.

Also, the picture Andrew posted looks like Big Band Ballroom before it was turned into rock and roll venue.

Also thinking that even if someone attended the show, the Beach Boys wouldn't be recognized as such other than some surf band,
except maybe by the musicians on the bill with them.

Does anyone know Chick Carlton from the Majestics? He commented here: http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/music_blog/2011/04/in-rotation-the-mixtures-stompin-at-the-rainbow.html

The BBs played the intermission of a Surf movie in San Diego( and the Mixtures hated Surf music)


Sure, maybe. Maybe not. It's a long time gone anyway, but seeing as how Surfin was a hit on the radio, some people probably saw them and said HEY!!  They might even remember, or land-o-goshen, maybe they took a camera along

true true true wasn't  trying to be negative, was thinking more of where to focus for best results...

I hear ya!  Thinking out loud is good, maybe sparks someone else to bring an answer.

 
A remark by Alan's mom leads some of us to believe that such a photo was at least taken. Sadly, it doesn't seem to have survived.


Ummmm... I think that they even asked (never mind persuaded) Virginia Jardine to spring $300 for instrument rental tends to somewhat negate that notion.  :)


True, true... we're working on a best guess principle here. But what we have fits pretty good. For now.

This may be a good subject for the LA oldies station K-EARTH (Brian listens I think!) to high light this 50th. Looking for a 61-62 picture.

Something Ian said made a small bell ring in the back of my brain, and I checked. Yes... in 1962, the overwhelming percentage of the shows the band did were over the weekend (Friday night-Saturday-Sunday). Looking at just the Pandora's Box shows, for example, it looks like they had a Sunday night residency there late August-mid November.

This may post inelegantly, but it's an instructive list:

1962 shows & sessions:

January
?? - Surfin'/Luau single released (Candix 301)                                       
Th   25 - Mesa Presbyterian Church Surf Nite, Hawthorne CA                                       
                                             
February
Th   8 - 2nd Morgan session - Surfin'Safari/Surfer Girl/Judy/Karate [World Pacific]                                       
Fr   16 - Rainbow Gardens, Pomona CA [2]                                       
Sa   17 - Rainbow Gardens, Pomona CA                                       
Mo   19 - Academy Fine Arts Theatre, San Diego CA [2 shows] [3]                                       
Tu   20 - Academy Fine Arts Theatre, San Diego CA [2 shows] [3]                                       
                                             
March
Fr   2 - Millikan High Auditorium, Long Beach CA* [4]                                       
   early - Harris Dept Store Deb Teen Fashion Show, San Bernardino CA*                                       
Th   8 - Kenny & The Cadets vocal session: Barbie/What Is A Young Girl [World Pacific] [5]                                       
Fr   9 - Rainbow Gardens, Pomona CA*                                       
Sa   10 - Bel Air Bay Club, Los Angeles CA*                                       
Fr   16 - Santa Monica Hotel, Santa Monica CA [w/The Vibrants & The Bel Airs]                                       
Sa   17 - Santa Monica Hotel, Santa Monica CA [w/The Vibrants & The Bel Airs]                                       
Su   18 - Santa Monica Hotel, Santa Monica CA [w/The Vibrants & The Bel Airs]                                       
Fr   23 - Mira Costa HS, Manhattan Beach CA* [w/Spencer & Allred, Twin Tones and Tommy Terry]                           
Fr   23 -  Rainbow Gardens, Pomona CA*                                       
Sa   24 - Newport HS Gym, Newport Beach CA* [w/The Vibrants]                                       
Fr   30 - Rainbow Gardens, Pomona CA*                                       
Sa   31 - National Guard Armory, Ontario CA [w/The Vibrants]                                       
                                             
April
Mo   2 - Bel Air Bay Club, Los Angeles CA*                                       
Wd   4 - Womens Club, Inglewood CA*                                       
Mo   16 - session: Beginning Of The End/One Way Road To Love/Visions/My Only Alibi [Western] [6]                  
Wd   18 - Newport High School, Los Angeles CA* [w/The Belairs, The Vibrants, Dodie & Dee Dee, and The Fabulous Biscaines]                           
Th   19 - demo tape session: Surfin' Safari/409/Lonely Sea/Their Hearts Were Full Of Spring [Western] [7]               
Fr   20 - Redondo High School, Redondo Beach CA [w/The Vibrants & The Bel Airs]*                                       
Sa   21 - Redondo High School, Redondo Beach CA [w/The Vibrants & The Bel Airs]                                       
Su   22 - Barbie/What Is A Young Girl Made Of ? Kenny & The Cadets single released (Randy)                                       
Sa   28 - The Wink Martindale Dance Party* (local TV)                                       
                                             
May
Fr   4 - Womens Club, Inglewood CA                                       
                                             
June
Fr   1 - Dykstra Hall UCLA,  Los Angeles CA [The Renegades]* [8]                                       
Mo   4 - Surfin' Safari/409 single released (Capitol)                                       
Su ?   ?? - Wagon Wheels Junction Roller Rink, Oxnard CA* [9]                                       
Fr   29 - Dykstra Hall UCLA,  Los Angeles CA [The Renegades]*                                       
                                             
July
Sa   14 - Radio KOXR Diaper Derby, Oxnard CA                                       
Sa   14 - Hawthorne High School Canteen Dance, Hawthorne CA* [10]                                       
Wd   18 - Jodie Gable's birthday party, Burbank CA* [11]                                       
Sa   28 - Azuza Teen Club, Azuza CA [12]                                       
                                             
August
Wd   8 - Surfin' Safari session: Ten Little Indians/Chug-A-Lug/The Shift [Capitol]                                       
Mo   20 - Broadway Store, Los Angeles CA*                                       
Mo   20 - Broadway Store, Del Amo, Los Angeles CA*                                       
Tu   21 - Broadway Store, West Covina, Los Angeles CA*                                       
Tu   21 - Broadway Store, Pasadena CA*                                       
Wd   22 - Broadway Store, Orange County, CA*                                       
Wd   22 - Broadway Store, Whitter, Los Angeles, CA*                                       
Th   23 - Broadway Store, Westchester, Los Angeles CA*                                       
Th   23 - Broadway Store, Crenshaw, Los Angeles CA*                                       
Fr   24 - Broadway Store, Long Beach CA*                                       
Sa   25 - Broadway Store, Hollywood CA*                                       
Sa   25 - Broadway Store, Valley, Los Angeles CA*                                       
Sa   25 - The Reseda Jubilee, Reseda CA* [w/Jan & Dean] [13]                                       
Su   26 - Pandora's Box, Hollywood CA* [14]                                       
   ?? - Annual Surfer's Ball, Los Angeles CA* [w/Dick Dale]                                       
                                             
late summer
   ?? - Cinnamon Cinder, Los Angeles CA* [15]                                       
                                             
September
Su   2 - Pandora's Box, Hollywood CA                                       
Tu   4 - session: The Revo-Lution/Number One/Humpty Dumpty/Recreation [16]                                       
   ?? - The Revo-Lution/Number One Rachel & The Revolvers single released (Dot) [17]]                                       
   early - Milton Berle's daughter Victoria's 17th birthday party, Los Angeles CA*                                       
Wd   5 - Surfin' Safari session: Summertime Blues/Land Ahoy/Little Miss America [Capitol]                                       
Th   6 - Surfin' Safari session: Cuckoo Clock/Heads You Win/County Fair/Moon Dawg   [Capitol]                  
Su   9 - Pandora's Box, Hollywood CA*                                       
Th   13 - session: Cindy, Oh Cindy/The Surfer Moon [Western] [18]                                       
Fr   14 - Surfers Ball, Morgan Hall, Long Beach CA*                                       
Sa   15 - Helen Stillman's 16th birthday party, Los Angeles CA*                                       
Su   16 - Pandora's Box, Hollywood CA*                                       
   ?? - Roller Gardens, Oxnard CA* [w/The Casuals - between the 7th & 22nd]                                       
Su   23 - Pandora's Box, Hollywood CA*                                       
Su   30 - Pandora's Box, Hollywood CA*                                       
   ?? - Swing Auditorium, San Bernadino CA* [w/Dick Dale]                                       
                                             
October
   ?? - The Surfer Moon/Humpty Dumpty Bob & Sheri single released (Safari) [19]                                       
Mo   1 - Surfin' Safari album released (Capitol)                                       
   ?? - session: Gonna Hustle You [Western ?]                                       
   early - Leonard's Department Store Grand Opening, Garden Grove CA*                                       
Su   7 - Pandora's Box, Hollywood CA*                                       
Su   14 - Pandora's Box, Hollywood CA*                                       
Su   21 - Pandora's Box, Hollywood CA*                                       
Sa   27 - Hollywood Bowl YDay, Hollywood, CA [w/Soupy Sales, Shelly Fabares, Bobby Vee and others]*                           
Sa   27 - Fox Theater Cystic Fibrosis Benefit, San Francisco CA* [w/Joey Bishop,Jane Mansfield, Don Grady,Troy Donahue, Annette Funicello, Donna Loren,  Bobby Freeman and others]   
Su   28 - Pandora's Box, Hollywood CA                                       
                                             
November
Sa   3 - Pickwick Dance Party, Burbank CA* [20]                                       
Su   4 - Pandora's Box, Hollywood CA                                       
Su   11 - Pandora's Box, Hollywood CA                                       
Wd   21 - Biltmore Hotel, Hermosa CA [w/The Journeymen]                                       
Mo   26 - Ten Little Indians/County Fair single released (Capitol)                                       
Fr   30 - Alfred Goode Auditorium, Bakersfield CA*    [w/The Revlons, Candy Maloney and Ken and The Ho Daddys]                        
                                             
December
Sa   1 - Pacific Lodge Boys Home benefit, Van Nuys Theatre, Van Nuys CA*   [w/Dorsey Burnett, The Lively Ones, Dobie Gray, The Crystallets, Cyndy Malone,The Mixtures, Dick Michals, The Pastel 6 and Jimmy Haskell]
Mo   3 - USC Pep rally, USC campus CA*                                       
Th   6 - The Cinnamon Cinder, Long Beach CA* [grand opening - w/Jan & Dean, The Challengers and Sandy Nelson]                           
Wd   12 - Four Speeds session: R.P.M./My Sting Ray/ Barefoot Adventure [Western] [22]                                       
Mo   17 - Earl Warren Show Grounds, Santa Barbara CA [21]                                       
Th   20 - Civic Auditorium, Bakersfield CA [21]                                       
Sa   22 - Exhibition Hall, Fresno CA [21]                                       
Fr   28 - Surf Fair, Civic Auditorium, Santa Monica CA                                       
Fr   28 - County Fairgrounds, Merced CA [21]                                       
Su   30 - Gold Rush Festival Auditorium, Stockton CA[21]                                       
Mo   31 - Santa Cruz CA* [21]                                       

Of course you're right, but being a guitarist myself, I might not be very happy to lend my guitar (especially if it's a expensive one) to a teenager. And since "Surfin'" and the early stuff really isn't hard to play, he might just have said that he will do it for them. Maybe that's something Adam should ask him.....

A fascinating thread.....

what the f*** just happened?

Is there a problem officer? :police:

July
Sa   14 - Radio KOXR Diaper Derby, Oxnard CA


 :lol

Diaper derby?! Dare I ask...?

Going by confirmed concerts, which is the first actual band shot?

March 10, 1962, Bel Air Bay Club (that we're aware of). That predates the signing for Capitol by a good four months. The interesting/frustrating thing is, it's obviously taken by someone who was at least semi-pro, which means there may have been others.

Two things:

I posted two photos on page one - one obviously from summer '62 "One Man's Challenge", just to show the Pendleton shirts and the Fender guitars. I also grabbed one from somewhere...but there was no pedigree. That poor-quality shot of the Boys wearing the checkered jackets, watching a couple twist: Where and when is this from?


AND: Pendleton shirts are apparently back in style today. A boutique in Philadelphia which sells a lot of retro clothes like Levis 501 jeans and Red Wing boots has a major display of Pendleton shirts! They show the Beach Boys connection to their Board Shirt as part of the company's legacy, which I thought was neat. I just thought that was a neat and out of the blue tie-in to this thread, to see Pendleton shirts back in style and on display in Philly.

The One Man's Challenge clip was filmed July 28th. The other one ? No idea... but I've seen it before, in better quality. Somewhere.

Ah, got it - p.31 of the 2nd (1985) edition of the Leaf book. Taken at a UCLA dance, early summer 1962, which seems to be Dykstra Hall, June 1st or 29th.

Thanks for the info! The checkered sportcoats were a nice touch for a college show... Seriously I wondered why if Brian taped so many mundane things on his reel-to-reel and copies of that stuff still exists, did he ever carry the tape machine to any of those actual early gigs?

There is a second photo from this gig that circulates showing Carl, David, Mike and Brian gathered around a single microphone. As AGD stated these would be the two earliest photos that have surfaced, live or otherwise, of the entity known as "The Beach Boys".

I just checked out the Pendleton website. I imagine that back in the day, the shirts didn't cost what they do now, which was anywhere from $50 to $100.00.   Little steep, dont ya think?

I sent of a couple e-mails to people I don't even know, but who might have some info or point in a direction.

But look at this! http://www.myspace.com/themixtures/photos/1641726#{%22ImageId%22%3A1641656}

looks like the pic Andrew posted is circa 1960 and Candy Mendoza was taking pictures... was he still taking pictures in 1962?

Would the Beach Boys have performed under the name Pendletones or Kenny and the Cadets even though they had the single out as the Beach Boys? Did Capitol ever send out official photographers for promo shots?
Thinking out loud again

The band only ever performed as The Beach Boys (Kenny & The Cadets was never an early name, but something else entirely). There are official Capitol promo shots, but those date from the summer.

Unless I'm wrong, Candy didn't take the pictures, they were just provided by him. Now IF he's still alive, he might be a good contact for other pics. 

found another cool link: http://www.cduniverse.com/productinfo.asp?pid=6930116

Cruisin' East L.A.: Eighteen Hits From The 60's CD

Recording information: Rainbow Gardens, Pomona, CA.

Introduction by: Billy Cardenas.

Photographers: Chick Carlton; Candilario "Candy" Mendoza.

from here: http://www.laweekly.com/2005-12-29/news/naa-na-na-na-naa/

"Many of these stories would have remained untold if not for Emmy-winning television sound engineer Hector Gonzalez. Gonzalez (more on him later) has compiled a wealth of history from interviews he conducted with Davis and others, and from the legacy Davis left to him when he died of cancer in 1994, including the Rampart Records label, master recordings from the era, press clippings, memorabilia — in essence, the Rosetta stone of the West Coast Eastside sound.From those sources, and from recent interviews with Cardenas and surviving musicians and personalities from the era’s heyday, comes this look at some of the men who helped create the West Coast Eastside sound, and changed American rock & roll in the process."

Anyone know Hector Gonzalez?

Two ways to look at this:

- The shirts are very high-quality shirts which last and look good

- The cost of being hip, retro, and stylish can be quite high, even if the patterns are 50 years old ;D

Now I'm wondering if the maker of those checkered jackets the Beach Boys are sporting in the other photo plan to reissue and promote them too...somehow I doubt it. :)

It was for a newspaper article. I don't know which one it was, but local to the L.A. area I believe.

So, I am in Montebello today and I stop at the park there and then I go to this shop. The guy there remembers the Standells playing in 1966. He was busy so I didn't get a chance to talk to him except for a few minutes. I am driving and pass the American Legion Hall and stop there just to have a look and meet a guy there who says "Oh yeah I went to high school with Mike Love". He was in the middle of something so I didn't get to talk to him but for a few minutes. What are the odds?

Weird.

I did e-mail Larry about this but he either didn't see the e-mail or didn't feel like bothering with it.  I'll ask him about it when we're on the road later this month.

Here's the article

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It was... I parked in back and walked up to the back door and the sign on the door said to use the front. There were guys inside setting up tables for a meeting. So I start walking to the front, but the guy came out and asked "can I help you?" He is getting something from the trunk of his car and I start talking about the music circuit and mention the Beach Boys... he says he is from the west side but lives out here now. He remembered Mike's sister, (Maureen?)... said she played harp and she was a brain... smart. He went into the service and was watching TV and saw Mike "Hey I know that guy". The conversation ended when another guy came out... they had to get the meeting started... I never even went into the building.

Alright, I talked to Larry about this today in rehearsal.  Unfortunately, he doesn't have that much to add to what he already told me.  His memory is very vague, and he was surprised that the date was as late as 1962 (which of course it had to be).  I can add a couple of things:

1.  He was part of the house band, and he regularly learned whatever songs there were for the artists playing on whatever night.  He mentioned two other people he had backed up as Ral Donner and Conway Twitty.

2.  He remembers Dennis playing drums "standing up."  This fits the mental image of a vocal group.  Possibly Dennis just played snare and hi-hat?

3.  He THINKS there were four people in the BBs (I did not prompt him on this in any way).

4.  He can't say for sure that one of the guys wasn't playing guitar...though his earlier impression was that none of them had played except Dennis.  I think we can extrapolate from this that at least Brian and Mike didn't play anything, which fits what we know.

5.  A typical set at the Ballroom was 3-4 songs.

That's all I got.  It doesn't tell us much, but it's intriguing.

Excellent stuff, Adam.

1 - makes sense and let's face it, how hard would it be to learn "Surfin'" & "Safari" ?

2 - snare/hi-hat makes perfect sense

3 - four piece fits perfectly too, and without being prompted is researchers gold !

4 & 5 - again, all fits nicely without recourse to a hammer.  ;D

It does tell us Larry was regular with the house band at that time though, which is good info itself. It gives us a visual, too. It fits with the recording dates of the Mixtures record which is the same week as the Beach Boys performance there. I've been looking at all the groups and musicians from that time and what the scene was here and I have a better understanding of where the Beach Boys come from. The Beach Boy touring bands have been multi-cultural... something I have always noticed. 3 or 4 songs... what would the set list be? Surfin... Surfin Safari... Luau... Judy... something like that maybe? The thing that really jumps out at me, which didn't really hit me until Andrew posted the first gigs in another thread, is that they were in the recording studio before their first gig.

I have been talking to people from the area and they remember the Standells and Cannibal and the Headhunters... my hope is to find someone who remembers a Beach Boys performance and find a picture. When I get a chance to go out to Pomona, I have a few stops I can make... fingers crossed... something might turn up.

The drum set-up might have been a snare and cymbal if Dennis was standing.

good stuff

This is great! What's needed is what you're doing, going out and trying to find people that might have seen them; at this point in time that's probably the only way we'll ever find any new information about something this far past. 

should be stated that the Gigs/Sessions info at Bellagio is pretty damn accurate (and I should know cuz I compiled a lot of it) but some of those early 62 shows are not certain as to dates.  The Rainbow Gardens shows may or may not have taken on those exact dates-I have never seen an ad, flyer or anything on them. All I know is that Bob Eubanks told David Leaf for his Beach Boys Book that he paid the group 150 dollars to play there. Ron Swallow also recalled them playing there a few times.  But the dates we list are the best we have for now.  Badman listed the dates of Feb 16 and 17 but his source is unknown to me.  That being said-since so many of Badman's dates turned out to be wrong-I was ready to chuck all his dates when I got a hold of East LA Community College papesr from 62 and found confirmation (ads) for all his Pandora's Box listings-so Keith did have some decent sources for some of his 62 info-though I don't know what they were.  Another fellow named Rory supplied the March dates for more Rainbow Gardens shows-but never gave up the source of his info.

I'd like to ask for a clarification: Is it being suggested that Bob Eubanks paid this early line-up of the band $150 to play 3-4 songs, without full instrumentation? Or is he talking about later shows when the Beach Boys were more established as a band and would deliver a more full set of music with instruments?

150 in 1962 was a lot of money. Just sayin'

One thing I should add that doesn't exactly jibe, but is significant, is that Larry was skeptical that it was as late as 1962, since he said "once I was in the Standells [who formed in '62], I didn't play with anybody else."  So one way to triangulate the date is to find out when the first Standells gigs were.  Larry said he'd research that when he had time but someone else may be able to find the information.  Larry did say a lot of the information on the 'net was wrong.

It seems pretty clear that this was a very early gig...in fact, one thing that occurs to me is Larry seems to be thinking of one specific date.  He has no recollection of them playing there was a full band -- so it seems like he was gone by the time of the later Ballroom dates.

Also, can we correlate the Ral Donner and Conway Twitty appearances?

Ok... all in all it looks like 5 shows total... maybe 150 bucks for 5 shows? All on Friday nights except that one Saturday. Seems to fit. Those two shows on the 16th and 17th are the same week as the Mixtures recording which was the Monday before. An ad or flyer would be a good thing, eh? Were the East L.A. Community College papers a compilation of papers... i.e. articles from a local Pomona paper included?

The idea for me is to just kind of ask around... that kind of thing... it's a total shot in the dark finding people who went to the venue and would remember the bands that played there. That random meeting with the guy at the American Legion Hall and his memory clicked right in... I am taking it as a good sign. I have a couple other ideas, too... again, fingers crossed.

Cande Mendoza passed away in 2008.

The Ballroom venues are an important part of our culture. Found this link on youtube for the Rendezvous Ballroom in Balboa/Newport Beach... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xVMMOLAZN8g     ...if the Beach Boys first gig was there, that place had tons of history. Nowadays, ballrooms are mainly in hotels.

Wouldn't Brian or Mike remember these gigs? Not the actual dates, but the set list and what they wore and what the scene was?

Found this article dated April 24th, 2011... hmmm... http://www.seattlepi.com/default/article/Music-Review-The-Mixtures-Stompin-At-The-1320856.php      "Pick up this lost bit of Americana, it is filled with great music."

Just noticed something from this link: http://www.surfingmuseum.org/exhibit/reunion/rendezvous.html
"Dick Dale & The Del-Tones played their last show at the ballroom on December 23, 1961."
Their last show there is the Beach Boys first show? The Beach Boys aren't listed as having played there.

This is the most interesting part to me: that musicians or a crowd on the Mixtures circuit wouldn't want to hear surf songs and the reception would be poor from a surf crowd at a surf venue in Balboa.

If his recollection of there being only four in the band is accurate, that places the date very precisely between early February (post 8th) and March 2nd 1962. This info is independent of Badman.  ;)

What date does Larry think it was? 

As to the Standells, What about Tony Valentino, aka Emilio Tony Belilissimo ? (he supposedly owns a Woodland Hills CA restaurant named Bellisimo's)  Seems like maybe he'd know when the Standells formed.
 I seriously doubt the BBs gig at the Gardens was any earlier.

What I'd like to hear about: someone finding people that attended Surf Nite featuring "The BEACHBOY'S" at  Presbyterian Church  54th st & Mullen( w. of Crenshaw). They gave away a surfboard as a door prize, so maybe someone remembers that!  (Thursday January 25th, 1962)  Admission was $1
Like who else was on the bill? How many BBs were there, and what did they play? 
Maybe the church has records of their time as a concert hall?

 
That's the kind of thing I am thinking of. I can't drive all over, right now, but I can get out to Pomona, maybe even this coming week... some of these places might even have a picture hanging on the wall.

Ian... one of the dates you have for a show in '92, the Pro Set Awards... you have that as the 20th and I was at that show... I am still looking for my program, which I think I still have, but found a scan of it on the net... and the cover shows the 19th... I put it up on another thread here...

The Standells first gig was 3 months in Hawaii... haven't found the actual date, yet... but what a cool first gig.

Considering I replaced Tony Valentino in the band (well, actually, I replaced the guy who replaced him), I'm thinking he might not be very receptive to an inquiry from me!

I wouldn't put an incredible amount of stock in Larry saying there was 4 of them.  I wouldn't say he was sure.  The one thing I thought was interesting was I would expect him to say there were 5, since that's the way most people visualize the band, so if his memory was vague, I would expect him to say that.  

I'm wondering if it wasn't the very first gig.  The reason I say this is we have a very narrow window here.  Larry was surprised it was as late as '62 because he was moving into the Standells at that point.  He also doesn't remember any other gigs, just the one.  We have the possibility of four Beach Boys playing as a non-band (which would make sense if Jardine was gone...they'd need a backup band in that case).  And the Mixtures session was in mid-February, correct?  In fact, if Larry was on guitar for the Mixtures' live session on Feb. 12 at the same venue, it pretty much guarantees that we're looking at the 16th and 17th dates I would think...a plausible scenario is Larry is around in mid-February and then moves into the Standells around that time, so he's gone by March.

If you have contact info for Tony, Ian might want to talk to him, and if not I'll be glad to! I call and talk to guys from the old surf bands whenever I get info/ chance to call, trying to find BBs concert info. 

As to Larry:  His remembrance of 4 members is a good thing. But I'm wondering about the "only one date" part. Thinking about it, it seems less likley that they played TWO nights in a row. Couple that with the Bob Eubanks quote of paying them to play on a FRIDAY night, and I wonder where the Badman info for a two nite gig came from.  Either way, I'm betting the Standells didn't come along until after the show(s) at Rainbow Gardens. 
 As to the Mixtures recording, I'm under the impression that their LP was recorded live W/O Larry, and his input was added later in a studio. 

Ah.  Interesting.  I can ask him about that.  I bet he'll remember the Mixtures thing.

I'm thinking the Standells may have started immediately after the Rainbow Gardens gig.  It all fits to my way of thinking...

Larry never said "one date" specifically but he talked about the recollection as if it was a one-time thing.  If there were two gigs I imagine he might remember them as one but I like your theory better.

Because Dennis threatened to beat everybody up if he wasn't allowed to play.  :-D