The Smiley Smile Message Board

Hi just wanted to know if there's a chance that we could just have the box set without the vinyls. I know alot of you out there love vinyl but frankly I could do without it as i don't have a record player and I can't afford to pay out silly money for something I don't want or need. All I want is the 4cd's and some notes on the tracks. Would the 4cd's be on Itunes?? Or do we need to rob a bank in order to hear 4cd's via the box set vinyls and all.

Please God, no itunes.  ::)

My ultimate nightmare is that there will be tracks on the four cd set not on the two disc, or vice versa, and a whole cd exclusive to itunes that will have stuff that's not on either box set. And now that I have mentioned it, of course it will happen. :thud

Well, I think it's a certainty that there will be tracks on the 4 cd set that aren't on the 2 cd set.  I mean, how could there not be?  There would be absolutely no point to having 4 cds if they didn't have extra tracks.

The more plausible fear is that the 2-cd set will contain something that isn't in the deluxe box, thus forcing the completist to buy both.  I'll probably buy both regardless (and possibly multiple copies, as well), but I can see how such a situation would be a bit frustrating to the more budget-oriented fan.

To the fans who don't want vinyl, I offer a simple solution... buy the box, keep the CDs and sell the vinyl on ebay.  I guarantee that there will be a strong aftermarket for your unwanted Smile vinyl among fans who want vinyl without having to buy the CDs.

Well, given that there's twice as much room on four CDs than there is on two, I'd say you should be prepared for some sleepless nights.

Yeah, guess I didn't think that one through, huh?  ;D

iMy point is why can't the vinyls be like a special limited release via mail order or something and let all us poorer people buy just the 4 cd's??
I'm happy to spent £50/60 for the 4cd's but not at least £100 for 4 Vinyls as well I don't want or flog to on ebay >:(

I dunno.  I would think the vast majority of people who buy the 4 CD set will be people who have no use for vinyl, which means a lot of people looking to get rid of useless (to them) vinyl for cheap.  The supply-demand curve will have to favor vinyl buyers.

I've had concerns about various exclusives for each package as well - not great for the budget, but at the end of the day, any Smile-related purchase is worth the cost after such a long wait.

I agree that the vinyls should have been optional, but my plan is to use those for more decorative purposes, and maybe play them at some point down the line if ever I decide to invest in a record player.  As juggler suggested though, if you really don't want them, there's always eBay, assuming the after-market for the vinyls is decent enough to make it worth your while.

Well said Jeff 8)

What about for these of us who may not afford the box set when it comes out in the first place?, How can we put the vinyls on ebay if we can't buy it??
I'm just upset that I'm going to be the unlucky one who wouldn't be able to afford it  :'(

My point is that 4 vinyls will only push up the price when all most of us really want is the 4cds >:(

I'm sure there will be people out there who have the exact opposite predicament as you, as in they only want the vinlys and not the CDs, so perhaps you'll be able to purchase just the CDs from someone via eBay or similar avenues.  Maybe a bit of a longshot (and of course it means waiting longer, which sucks), but that's the best solution I can think of.

Thanks Chris yeah your right mate, But unless the release date isn't July and maybe set back a few month say Sep/Oct I should have saved up enough (at a push) or maybe get a summer job just so that I  will have enough for sure and get the bloody thing!!!!  :lol

 :lol

You have had 44 years to save up for it. The compound interest on £1.17.6 must be....

There's always the possibility that the vinyl will contain material NOT available on the CDs or on itunes  :o

why would you need to rob a bank?

the only thing i'm afraid of is the possiblity of iTunes bonus tracks. Am not so flush as to buy the 2cd set as well, so will just starve for a week or so and buy the box. I CAN'T WAIT.

Hell I wish it was all vinyl with no cd's. I would love to have say a six LP set with all the stuff on it. Perhaps they should do a seperate CD and Vinyl only thing so everyone can get exactly what they want. Still I am super excited about this and am glad we are getting the vinyl we are.

i don't think there'll be anything on itunes that isn't on the 4 cd

It's not "vinyls", it's "vinyl" for both singular and plural instances.

What's the problem here with vinyl? It sounds better than cds or mp3s (and that's a fact, jack) and it lasts forever if you take care of it (unlike cds which degrade either way). Get a grip and listen to this music the way it was intended.

That may be true what you say about vinyl, but I have 27 year old CDs that sound better than my LPs, and I take good care of both.

If you're a big Smile fan, why not have some beautiful Smile vinyls in your collection? Are you really that poor?
I don't really care for CDs myself anymore. Don't see the point tbh. They're ugly and if I want songs on my computer, I download them.

I don't have a record player either but I am looking forward to the vinyl just as display pieces. :)

1. Take a sewing needle, and glue that firmly to an empty cardboard pill-box.

2. Take this contraption in right hand, and hold SMiLE vinyl LP in its place on the ground with left hand.

3. Now: put needle in outer groove of LP, and describe circular patterns in groove, with that thing as a whole. Make sure that your rotation speed is 33 times per minute.

...and the vinyl SMiLE is totally, like, yours!

As hard as it is to believe, there are poor Beach Boy fans - some of us are paying off college, some of us are in college, some of us are paying off mortgages, some of us need jobs, etc....it's a fact of life. And honestly, in this economy there are far, far better things that I could be spending my money on. I have the money to buy it, and will be getting it - but to spend probably $150 on this thing would not be a wise investment on my part at this time.

If Priore's book is not chock-full-of interviews with the wrecking crew (much like the Pet Sounds Sessions booklet) I'm gonna be fairly peeved at this hardcover* book....Everything that Brian and Van Dyke Parks had to say about SMiLE was most likely said during BWPS - and I've already read Priore's book on that, and have also watched the bonus interviews with VDPs and Wilson on the Beautiful Dreamer DVD. What more can they add?

*I'm 100% certain the hardcover book is another way for them to tack on $30 to the price of this thing....nothing wrong with that IF it has new information and in-depth interviews with new information - but if it is all the same "Brian took drugs and invented SMiLE, then went to bed for a decade after shelving the tapes" I'll be a little irritated.

I think it's kind of cheap for Capitol to make us buy the vinyls to get the 4 CDs - but that's Capitalism for ya.

I'm sorry, that sounded really rude. I just thought that a big beach boys fan would save his money for this once-in-a-lifetime thing you know, but ofcourse it might not be possible for everyone.

I agree, capitalism sucks!

You've hit it right there. This IS capitalism. Capitol is in this to make $$; the same thing you want to do.
This is how they've decided to market it, and if people don't want it, they darn sure don't have to buy it. Or they can hope to find the CDs only, on the aftermarket, and hope they can "steal" them there.  
Perhaps if this was a socialist/communistic society you believe you'd get the CDs only?

Yes I believe that would be the case, bgas.

I think the real sentiment behind some of the complaints is that the record company is able to "force" people to buy something that they don't want and/or can't use in order to get something that they do want.  The percentage of music buyers who actively play BOTH vinyl and CDs has to be very, very small.  I'm sure there are a few of you out there, but Capitol knows that most of the people who buy the set will be getting some stuff that they never play.  And this kind of thing happens all the time with record companies.  How many times have they reissued the same music, but with one or two bonus tracks, so that completists feel compelled to purchase it all over again?

It's this kind of stuff that just seems unfair.  If I want to buy juice, the grocery store doesn't make me buy soda too, and it doesn't charge me a second time for the juice I already own.  If my brakes need to be replaced, the mechanic doesn't make me replace the oil at the same time.  I'm sure the record companies can paint all kinds of sob stories about losinig money to illegal downloads, bootleggers, etc., but I cannot feel sorry for them when they routinely take advantage of people the way they do.

Yes it is unfair, but playing Devil's advocate for a minute, it's smart business on Capital's part.  They know that the market for something like this is small, but that it's a market that they can rely on to shell out their hard-earned cash for this no matter what.  I don't feel bad for the record companies at all, given that their predicament is mostly self-inflicted, but if you were a running a record company and knew that you could make a little bit more profit by doing this, it would be stupid not to.

You are my hero!

I was born in 1978 so by the time I started getting into music vinyl was in it's dying days. As a result I know very little about the format. There is a shop round the corner from where I live that has a beautiful replica wind up gramophone going pretty cheap. If I was to buy it, would it be suitable for playing the Smile vinyls?

Maybe if it has a modern needle on it. If it is a 78 needle then you would wreck it.

Do as i did , and go to a pawn shop or similar and buy a non descript hi-fi turntable. I got a Sony one for £15, which was cheap enough to test it out without being a waste if i decided i preferred cds. Which, thankfully, turned out not to be the case. But if you buy some expensive replica you may regret it.

From a short-term perspective, yes.  But not necessarily from a long-term perspective.

I, for one, would be more likely to buy a cd-only boxed set if it were available.  The vinyl would be a fun novelty to look at, maybe play once and then put away or on display, but I think they would be non essential, IMO.  I listen almost exclusively to cds.

Vinyl Jackets will be good for having Mike, Bruce, Alan and Brian sign! Oh also VDP and Frank Holmes ,anyone I miss?

Conversely if you were to try to play the new Beach Boys 78 with that 78 needle you'd wreck that too. Oh the irony!  :-D

Seriously though, I'm in the camp of not necessarily giving a damn about the vinyl in this case, and even from a collecting viewpoint the vinyl on it's own loses much of the value after the full package is opened, so it's not like the Smile vinyl separate from the box set package itself is a valued collectible in the year 2011.

I'd rather have the option to buy a vinyl-less set to save some money on this purchase. I'm not ashamed to admit that. And I may change my mind. :)

Vinyl won't last forever unless you never play it. Fact. Every time you play a vinyl record, you're scratching it with a sliver of something thousands of times harder. There's contact - has to be, otherwise, no sound. Therefore, every time you play it, you're degrading it, no matter how slightly. Play it enough times, the highs will fade. And that's also a fact, jack.

My originsl Surfin USA has been played dozens of times and it sounds better then any CD. You need a good needle, and good balance. If you have it and store your records properly (and they are well pressed to begin with) they loose nothing.

Although AGD is technically completely right, I am inclined to concur. 'Dozens' does not equal 'playing to death'. I am certain that many of my LPs will outlast myself in excellent condition. As you say: a good needle is required, low needle pressure helps, as do regular check ups. I use Ortofon and Goldring cartridges, and a Dual 505-4 as well as a NAD C555 turntable. The NAD is fitted with an arm by Rega, nice stuff. Bought both second hand for little money (i.e. I was very lucky!).

I wasn't commenting on CD v vinyl sonic quality (I refuse to go down that path - it's up there with politics and organised religion), rather the fact that vinyl will only last forever if you never play it. Might take a century of so, but you play a record often enough, you'll end up with something totally unlistenable.

Reminds me of a research project that the prestigious computer magazine C't performed some years ago. It was about the storage qualities of all kinds of information carriers, esp. about how long info is decently preserved and retrievable.

The outright winner was: the clay tablet.

True, but finding anyone who can read Akkadian is a complete bitch.  ;D

Ok AGD we all know that you know everything matie :) lol

 :lol ...and I think our homo universalis Miike Love can...

Understood. I think Stephen Desper told me that professional grade turntables can make surface noise almost non exsistent these days. Ask him for details as it was very technical lol. I myself cannot afford thousands for one of these babies but investing about 300-400 can get you a great new turntable and a very good needle (which I replace about every 12-18 months as I play records almost everyday) isn't more then 50-100. In other words if you like vinyl make sure you have decent stuff to play it on. It's really worth the investment.

Two words: laser turntable.

Yes, yes, I know, it's kind of expensive but at least the vinyl is never touched by anything.

Didn't know those things still existed. Thanks for that knowledge.

Now that we have the Beach Boys on 78s, I believe the best purchase would probably be the LT-!XA or the LT-1XNP: 
http://www.elpj.com/purchase/index.html

No problem - I think ELP (bgas' link) is the only company that makes them... It's a shame they're so expensive though. The patent on laser turntables has expired, so perhaps other manufacturers will make their own models and bring prices down, but I doubt it.

And now, back to searching for a decent 78 rpm turntable in order to play my GV/H&V single...  :P

I never buy anything that has 'ELP' on it. Period.

Here's what you're looking for:

http://www.analogueseduction.net/product/Rega_Planar_78_Turntable_RP78

:lol :lol :lol

Actually I'm considering having my Technics SL-1200 upgraded (http://www.kabusa.com/78sl1200.htm (http://www.kabusa.com/78sl1200.htm)). I'd prefer to have only one turntable, especially since I probably won't play many other 78s...