The Smiley Smile Message Board

HI All,

I'm starting to think that many of the tracks that we think were incomplete were never meant to have vocals. that a good portion of SMiLE 1967 was instrumental.

I know sources are spurious at best and substances can cloud the mind (and that's just us!) but reading the DP 2004 SMilE book I cant help but wonder just how much of the stuff would never have had lyrics. CIFOTM for example was a new lyric for 2004, as was IBH? and they just don't seem to fit in the way that Brian's melody worked back then?

Am I missing something?

J xxx

Reasonable question... I'll see that and raise you the fact that DP said "Worms" was complete, yet the 2004 lyrics date from 1966 and fit perfectly.

Didn't Al deny that that was Worms for the GVs box set tho'?  He was right about this box set!

I didn't say all of it would be instrumental and I dont want to take what DP says verbatim, but some of the stuff just sounds like the vocals were added for the sake of it. Im not convinced by "roll plymouth rock" -  it just doesnt sound right to my ears.

I really think we might be chasing ghosts though, perhaps all these years spent with the bootlegs have scuppered my appreciation somewhat...

You can't get anymore accurate than "Roll Plymouth Rock" at recreating what the Beach Boys version may have sounded like (apart from the previously finished tracks). The song structure is identical to the rough mixes (which feature some of the vocals in place), plus you get the "Bicycle Rider" chorus and the verse melody (w/ vintage lyrics) as remembered by Brian. If it doesn't sound right to your ears...well, you're in good company because it apparently didn't sound right to Brian Douglas Wilson either which is why it remained incomplete and/or unreleased for 37 years!

The fact that Brian has gone on record saying that a lot of the stuff he was coming up didn't seem to work for vocals is a pretty compelling reason for SMiLE not to be finished as a Beach Boys album. Of course, he could have simply been talking about "Mrs. O'Leary's Cow" and using that as an excuse. I think you're right that listening to the instrumental tracks for so long can make a "completed" song seem wrong. Personally, I think all the new lyrics fit quite well and am very happy to have a finished song like "In Blue Hawaii" to listen to instead of just "I Love To Say Da Da".

Ditto Roger. I haven't heard anything in the SMiLE boots that sounded as though they were instrumentals. They are not like past Brian Instrumentals where the melody was compelling enough on it's own and the arrangement strong enough to live without vocals being added. With everything I have heard from the SMiLE boots, they have an incomplete feel to them (at least to me).

The idea that a lot of Smile tracks were not to have vocals comes from DP's contention that Brian had essentially finished Smile, therefore those instrumental tracks on boot were never destined to have vocals.

The one track (besides the Elements) which I thought might have been just an instrumental but was dropped from the track list, Holidays, I'm  not sure about since it got lyrics and vocals on BWPS.

 

Having a fully produced instrumental backing track ready for lyrics and/or melody in some cases was Brian's working method on certain songs since 1964, including California Girls and Good Vibrations. So if he had never finished California Girls, and we had access to one of the early mixdowns from the studio sessions, the song did not have a title as Brian slated it in the control room, yet that backing track could stand alone as an instrumental. But obviously the next part of the process was adding vocals with lyrics, so it is the song we now know as California Girls.

There is simply no way to tell what was to have lyrics and/or lead vocals if there is nothing to confirm or deny either way, and it becomes a debate about whose speculation is more informed than another. With "Worms", it was confirmed that Frank Holmes worked on his imagery from lyrics written for that song, so that's a definite. Holidays? Look? Who knows.

I was going on the lyrics that VDP was asked to write specifically for SMiLE 2004, in DP's book he talks about being asked to write parts in 2004 for tracksthat he didnt in 1967. My thinking was that if he didnt have them by the time the project was aborted in 1967 then there's a strong chance that they were not required. I guess it boils down to how complete you think SMiLE was/is or if Brian was under pressure to fill the 2004 version with lyrics?

Remember Van Dyke walked away from the project in early 1967, so consider that tracks which he would have worked on, possibly, never got to that stage after he left. And Brian's focus shifted considerably as well, to the point where he was recording a whole grouping of "Heroes And Villains" fragments that were scattered all over at session after session, and he never really patched those together either, so they remain fragments.

I don't think there was "pressure" to add lyrics to anything they didn't want to add lyrics to in 2003-04, but again it goes back to the time Van Dyke walked away from Smile for good, leaving that next step of the process unfinished.

It's a very hard thing to guess with Brian material: many tracks we know with great familiarity as vocal tracks work spectacularly well as instrumentals (case in point: Let Him Run Wild).

And we of course know of a few that ended up as instrumentals despite having had lyrics and melody written for them (case in point: Pet Sounds--or am I thinking of Let's Go Away for Awhile? Did lyrics ever reach the collector's world from those?)

My guess would be: there would have been 2-3 tracks as instrumentals, but no more, as it would throw off the balance. Compare to other BB albums: same deal, eh?

Nope, 'cause none were ever written.

What about Summer Means New Love?....

Holiday (version 1966) sounds pretty complete to me, but I don't think that it was necessarily considered to be an album track. It seems sort of like the Trombone Dixie of the early tracks. And while I do like the 2004 version with lyrics, I should say that it's a bit unsatisfying that Brian is simply singing over the horn melody that's already in the song. This wasn't really a common trait for Beach Boys songs (at least not off the top of my head).

Of the 12-song Capitol list, only one track (The Elements) looked like it was heading in the "instrumental" category, which is typically on par with a lot of Beach Boys album (save for Surfin' USA).

Don't forget 'Look/I Ran'. I know there was a vocal session for it, although it's never turned up. I think that it 'may' have been intended for SMiLE very early on, but was quickly cast aside.

Look, Holidays, Dada and Worms/RPR have a backing track sound to them.  They have no melody for long stretches, where a lead vocal would reside, plainly showing they were meant to have lyrics.  They do all work extremely well with lead vocals in 2004, and as stated, verses had been written for Worms/RPR or whatever you want to call it.  I do hope that Wee Helper is on to something with Al's quote about Worms.  Worms sounds like a good working title for an earth element, which apparently morphed into Fall Breaks with a little help from MOC.

Like I said, I hear a pretty strong melodic line throughout Holidays. It's so strong, in fact, that Brian merely replicates it for his vocal line in the 2004 version.

Look too me sounds more unfinished but it also sounds like something left over from Good Vibrations so I'm not sure on the role it would have played on Smile.

'Look/I Ran' was recorded before 'GV' was completely finished. It sounds to me like Brian took from 'Look' to help him finish 'GV'.

Anything specific in either track that would support this? Or is it just the overall mood of the track?

I remember hearing that either Look or CIFOTM had parts (or "feels") of GV in them....I have never been able to pinpoint what parts those are - and I have listened for them.

The final harmonies in GV correspond, sorta, with the instrumental chorus in 'Song For Children' The na-na-na-na, na-na-naaa riff?

Exactly.

Ha! Thanks! I finally hear it.

I think it's odd to think holidays would be an instrumental, yeah there's a melodic line by a clarinet, kinda used in exactly the same way as "I'm waiting for the day".  Brian did that a lot. 

I wouldn't say he did it a lot, but that track is the biggest (and most recent) precedent that immediately springs to mind.  Even on the intro section of "Holidays" (and the repeat of it that was later filled in with the pirate rap), there's a little melody in there too.  It's not conclusive evidence that the track was intended to be instrumental, but out of all the tracks, I'd say it's the most likely candidate for that very reason.

I think "Look" works pretty well as an instrumental as well (though not quite as well as "Holidays"), but the vocal session pretty much negates the possibility that it was intended as an instrumental, along with the fact that it doesn't appear on the December track list.

Cabinessence does the same thing with an instrument playing the vocal melody. 

Look sounds more like an instrumental to me than Holidays.  Holidays sounds so much like a wilson backing track.  Musically there's usually more going on in brian's instrumentals.  I don't think the melody on holidays works as well as just an instrumental too.  I feel like if it was supposed to be one, then i would have been one in 04

Only on the "welcomes a time for a change" part. That's hardly the same thing.

Don't forget the banjo which contains a great deal of the vocal melody.

Exactly.  Doubling a short bit of melody here is obviously something he did a lot, but the only time he did it through an entire verse, as far as I know, is "Holidays."  Even on "I'm Waiting For The Day," the instrumental double (clarinet, I think) drops away in the second half of the verse ("I know you cried").  Definitely not the same as having an instrumental melody playing throughout.

yeah i was referring to the banjo. and it's not like On a Holiday plays for the whole vocal melody, it plays for most of the verse, but none of the chorus.  Actually it keeps playing the same melody as the verse during the chorus. 

Note that the final instrumental chorus in the BWPS/"Song For Children" version modifies the melody so it sounds even closer to the "Good Vibrations" ending vocal riff. I think once Brian lifted this section of "Look" to end "Good Vibrations", he abandoned the track (figuring it had served its purpose). Amazing that something so beautiful would be tossed aside, but I assume that in 1966 Brian thought he could always come up with something better. Given that BWPS became an album of recurring themes (both musical and lyrically), it made sense to retrieve "Look" and even modify it to acknowledge its connection to "Good Vibrations".

A lot of people keep saying that the banjo is doubling the verse melody in Cabinessence, but it's not even close.  Rhythmically, the two are kind of similar, but melodically they are very different.  Well, they start on the same note, but after that...nah.

Count me among those who think that Holidays sounds the most like an instrumental.  Good melodies in the intro, and in the verses, and in the xylophone outro.  Obviously no one knows, but it just feels the most like an instrumental to me.

'Holidays' seems too bare to be an instrumental....however I've only heard 'Holidays' in its crappy bootleg form...I'll pass judgement when the boxset comes out.

I really hope that in preperation for the box someone will have sat Al, Mike and Bruce down and, for example, play Look and Holidays and ask if remember if it had lyrics. I know this sounds trivial but those guys are getting up there and when they pass on that knowledge is gone forever.

This suggestion is definitely not trivial, in fact I'd say it's close to a requirement if you want to record the first-person narrative to add to the history. I hope someone does the very thing you've suggested. Although in the past, Al's famous quote was "that's not Worms!" after hearing what went on the box set as "Worms" with no evidence to suggest that piece of music was something other than "Worms".

But I hope someone does this listening test very soon so we can see/hear the results as part of the package.

My guess is those guys would respond that they were on tour and had no idea what Brian was recording as backing tracks. Upon hearing them, they may respond with something like "Oh yeah, we used that part for 'Good Vibrations' and that part for the ending of 'Wind Chimes'".

We know there was supposedly a vocal session for "Look", right? Was there one for "Holidays"? Could the vocal session have consisted only of wordless backing vocals in the manner of "Fade To Vegetables", etc.?

Certainly possible they won't remember but considering 5 Beach Boys added vocals to Look in October '66 there is a fair chance that between Al, Mike and Bruce one of them will remember something about it. It's likely Look was played in 1972 as well.

It still blows my mind that (apparently) during the bazillion 2004 interviews with Brian and VDP that no one thought to ask such obvious questions such as the '66 Child lyrics, Look vocals, etc. 

What do you mean by this? You mean when they got all the SMiLE tapes out? Just wondering if there was something I missed along the line somewhere!

why is this nobody knows??  Brian knows, van dyke know.  I don't see any reason why he would add lyrics if it was supposed to be an instrumental.  And don't tell me that he wouldn't remember. I doubt he's listened to "summer means new love" lately, but he definitely knows it's an instrumental. 

Sorry but this is incorrect - the decisions that were made for BWPS were made during that immediate time period not in 1966. One of the decisions made was that there would be vocals on every single track and lyrics for everything, even the Water Chant. To be honest, Holidays may not have even been a track on Smile at all, let alone a song with lyrics.

Brian couldn't recall that he had already recorded and released White Christmas. Why would he remember if a song he wrote a few years later and then shelved for over 35 years (probably without being listened to) was meant to have lyrics?

I agree with you except . . . Fire/Mrs. O'Leary's Cow doesn't have lyrics.  Vocals, yes.

i find it hard to believe that a lot of the singing melodies in 2004 are completely new.  and i just can't listen to "holidays" and ever think there's not supposed to be singing over it.  it's weak as an instrumental by brian's standards i think.  oh well. 

I don't think there's much to suggest that they are not new (except for DYLW) - especially since the melodies are so drastically different from the ones in 66.


Well, yeah. I think instrumentally the song is weak compared to the basic music tracks of other songs from that era.

Sorry about that, the way I wrote it is pretty confusing. I just meant that there is a good chance the tape of the Look instrumental was one of the songs Carl and Desper played in 1972. Just my speculation though, I have nothing to back that up.

Well, presumably Brian and Van Dyke didn't remember the '66 CITFOTM verse lyrics. Either that or they didn't like them. IIRC someone here asked VDP if he he wrote lyrics for Child in '66 and he said he did. I would think he was referring to something other than the chorus vocals.

It's curious that the CIFOTM chorus fit so well in Look... simply curious.

Brian was really evolving at this time. Recurring themes were something he was trying to expand upon… For example: "Bicycle Rider."

Was he really? The earlier alternate version of H&V has no BR theme in it. I wonder if DYLW was scrapped after the the BR theme had become the H&V chorus. Even in BWPS it's only in H&V and RPR, and after that it never pops up again. On Smiley there's a major version of the BR theme used as bridge in Wonderful, and other than that it's all scrapped sections.

Fire seems really unlikely to have had words.