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In 1968, Wilson picked up a couple of women hitchhikers and took them to his house to party. The women were associated with a wanna-be song-writer named Charles Manson, who invited himself to visit the Beach Boy. Wilson also picked up a male hitchhiker that year, drug dealer Charles Watson, whom Dennis invited to hang out at his house. In fact, Manson met "Tex" Watson at Wilson's house; the two would become partners in some of the most infamous murders of the 20th Century. Initially, Wilson tolerated Manson's presence at his house, as he brought his groupies with him. Wilson had encouraged Manson's musical ambitions and one of his songs, "Cease to Exist", appeared on the Beach Boys album "20/20" under the title "Never Learn Not to Love". Eventually, Wilson and his musical confederates whom had been introduced to Manson became disenchanted with him, despite the former pimp's provision of women, due to Charlie's fierce temper. Ultimately, Manson and his girls proved to be unwanted guests who tried to commandeer Wilson's house. Wilson, too intimidated to evict his guests, eventually moved out of his own house. Shortly thereafter, Manson and his followers left and began their descent into the hellish frenzy that culminated in the Tate-LaBianca killings. committed the Tate-LaBianca murders.




I found this looking around on the internet on IMDb and thought Denny met all the manson family when they took over his home. This say's Denny picked up a hitchhiker named Tex watson and he met Charlie manson at Denny's home. I never knew Denny was the first to meet Tex Watson and thats how Tex and Charlie Manson met . Is this true.

Charles (Tex) Watson was a killer. A real bad killer, who went on at least two major killing sprees. Watson, Atkins, Krenwinkel, Kasabian, and Van Houten were the worst. Tex was a real smart guy, a star athlete in school with a promising future, then got pulled into Charlie's web and was brainwashed to kill. Tex consumed a lot of drugs and alcohol and became a wild madman. Yes, Tex was instrumental in introducing Dennis to Manson and the "family". Last I heard, Tex Watson is serving a life sentence, and has become a born-again Christian and a self-ordained minister at the church at the California Men's Colony in San Luis Obispo.  

To be honest it bugs me when people say 'The Manson Murders' - they weren't, they were the Watson murders. All nine victims died at the hands of Tex. And he was scum before he met Manson. A drug dealer with a nasty habit of ripping people off.

So you're saying Denny Introduced Tex to Charlie. I never knew that. How strange he met Tex first and gave him a ride to his home where Charlie and the girls were. This story gets more scary and frighting as I find out more Info. For the record, did Denny met Tex first or did Charlie Introduce Denny to Tex.

Tex introduced Dennis to Charles Manson.

Wrong way round. Dennis introduced Tex to Manson. Manson and co were already staying at Dennis's home when one day Dennis was hitchhiking (the family had wrecked both of his cars!) and was picked up by Tex Watson. Dennis told Watson all about Manson and insisted that he meet him for himself.

That's what  the article said. I learn more everyday. Thanks.

Sounds like a pre-planned set up to me; Tex already knew Manson and they hatched the hitch-hiking plan to confuse Dennis and help control him. 

Tex was an idiot! Manson needed idiots to do his bidding. Drugs and alcohol can only do so much to help brainwash someone. Dennis was steeped in drugs and alcohol too and didn't fall for any of Manson's sh*t.

I guess my point is, Tex and the others need to be held accountable for their actions, Manson or no Manson.....

That's Interesting. It would seem more logical.

Absolutely.

You mean they planted Tex out on the side of the road in order to lure Dennis into picking him up?

Wouldn't a couple of cute girls do the tick better than doofy Tex Watson? Or was Dennis the type of guy who just liked giving anyone a ride in order to help them out?

Operative words being "Dennis was hitchhiking (the family had wrecked both of his cars!) and was picked up by Tex Watson"

Egad! Thank God I'm not employed as a copy editor!!!!!  :p

Sorry to disagree, but Tex did not already know Manson, if not he would already have been living at Denny's along with the rest of Charlie's merry band of freeloaders. History has made Tex and Charlie appear much tighter than they apparently were. Tex was merely one of Manson's many acquaintances and it was only after Tex had burned all of his other bridges and had nowhere else to stay that he came to live at Spahan Range. Even then, Watson could not play an instrument and was a wimp without a weapon in his hands, so Charlie had little time for him.


It's worth noting and I've mentioned it before that Dennis did NOT believe Charlie was behind the murders. The more I look into the case the more I believe this may be true. As you mention drugs can only brainwash a person to a certain point. You simply cannot brainwash a person to become a killer through LSD. The CIA tried this with the MK - Ultra project and failed. Are we to believe a smelly ex con achieved in a little over a year what the US Government's top scientists, with millions of dollars at their disposal over a period of a decade could not?

Unless someone can present me with solid proof otherwise , I'll stick with the theory that the murders were drug burn related. Manson may or may not have had a hand in them - with all the BS that surrounded the case it was never proved conclusively either way. Forget personal opinion on Manson (he was a thief, conman, freeloader, egotistical nutjob etc), it's clear he didnot receive a fair trial.

I'll never forget this retired LAPD detective who used to come into a bookstore I worked at. He talked about the case once and said there were S&M parties at the Polanski house where they'd pick up hitchhikers for S&M shenanigans, and according to this guy, they picked up a couple of Manson girls once and beat them up pretty badly. He wouldn't say this was the reason ( or A reason) for the murders, but he still put it out there. I think Ed Saunders mentioned this in "The Family" but I could be wrong. But I do remember this guy saying the truth to the case is somewhere in the original case files.

As for Manson, if he in fact DID enter the La Bianca's home and tie them up, he's guilty as hell regardless.

I agree 100%

"You simply cannot brainwash a person to become a killer through LSD. The CIA tried this with the MK - Ultra project and failed. Are we to believe a smelly ex con achieved in a little over a year what the US Government's top scientists, with millions of dollars at their disposal over a period of a decade could not?"

I'm inclined to agree 100% with this, but it is perhaps arguable that Charlie's mix of LSD, sex, hippie blather, removed communal living situation, and Armageddon, was maybe a more potent brew than what the MK - Ultra guys had going on.

And if the Tate murders were drug-burn related, how do we explain the La Bianca's?

Sorry to go on and on. I just find this topic endlessly fascinating.

i always found this book interesting. by tex watson himself. esp chapter 6 i think tex says he picked up dennis. later was introduced to charlie. it's an online  book. interesting reading. who knows where the truth actually lies.

http://www.aboundinglove.org/sensational/wydfm/wydfm-001.php

Me too Erik H and I will happily discuss it endlessly with anyone willing to listen! I may have worded my earlier post a little poorly before, so I'll clarify. Charlie did at least have a hand indirectly in the murders , as he's freely admitted he later went to the Tate residence to survey the carnage and make sure that nothing was left that could be traced back to Spahan Range. In the eyes of the law this makes him an accessory to murder. What has never been proved is did he stick knives in the hands of Watson, Atkins, Krenwinkle and Kasabaian and say "go kill these people for me". The amount of hard evidence to support this is zero and any halfway decent lawyer should have got this charge quashed. Charlie was facing serious jail time regardless. Let's see, drug possession, credit card fraud, arson and destruction to government property, corruption of a minor, grand theft auto, possession of unlicensed firearms, assult with a deadly weapon, attempted manslaughter, accessory to murder.... all whilst he was out on parole! He would have got a minimum of 20 years for the above.


This is where the waters become much more muddy but I'd say drugs again.  Are we meant to swallow that Rosemary La Bianca had around a million dollars in 1969 money from investing money she'd made as a waitress?
As to Manson's physical involvement, he's always denied that he tied them up. Tex claims he tied them up himself. The hole in the oft told storey that Manson went in first by himself and tied them up at gunpoint is unless he grew an extra arm, just how can you hold a gun at two people and simultaneously tie them up?? I suppose he could have forced one to tie the other up at gunpoint first? You and Denny's Child are right, if he DID tie them up then that makes him an accomplice to murder and just as guilty as those who stabbed them.

Charlie claims they were in the neighbourhood to see Harold True who lived next door and when they found he wasn't home they snuck into the La Bianca's to party as they had apparently done several times before. He claims when he saw they were there he left. This story does seem fishy. What I struggle to get my head round is why Charlie would willingly want to be in a car looking to party with a bunch of people who he knew had butchered 5 people less than 24 hours beforehand? This shows at best that he was highly amoral.

Sorry for the erroneous post last night - I was tired. Here's closer to what happened - maybe Jon will come along and confirm:

Watson picked up Dennis Wilson, who was hitchhiking. After arriving at Dennis' Pacific Palisades' mansion, he invited Watson up to see the house and meet the people hanging out there. Watson was introduced to Charlie Manson. Wilson invited Watson to return to the mansion anytime to hang out and swim in the Olympic-sized pool. The mansion was filled with dropouts who hung out doing drugs and listening to music. Watson eventually moved into the mansion where he mingled with rock musicians, actors, children of stars, Hollywood producers, Charlie Manson and members of the Manson "Family."

Mike's Beard, you're funny!  ;D You and Vince Bugliosi should sit down and have a coupla beers together.

Mike's Beard: I always understood it that Manson snuck up on a sleeping Leno Labianca who woke up and Charlie told him to keep quiet and still and did tie him up while still holding the gun. (It's possible to do!) Then when Leno was tied up, he went into the bedroom and did the same with Rosemary who was likely asleep.

Maybe Manson chose the Labianca house with the intent of killing Harold True (and whoever else was around)! Makes more sense than sneaking in to party after a night of driving around looking for people to kill!!

Also, even if Manson put knives in people's hands and told them to kill for him, THEY made the decision to go out and do it instead of driving the car straight to the nearest police station.

Anything written by Ed Sanders should be taken with a giant grain of salt.  I have zero respect for his book.  Trying to link Manson to The Process was preposterous and, as he found out, libelous.

yeah, but I had this one tidbit mentioned by a more reliable source  :police:

It's worth noting and I've mentioned it before that Dennis did NOT believe Charlie was behind the murders. The more I look into the case the more I believe this may be true. As you mention drugs can only brainwash a person to a certain point. You simply cannot brainwash a person to become a killer through LSD. The CIA tried this with the MK - Ultra project and failed. Are we to believe a smelly ex con achieved in a little over a year what the US Government's top scientists, with millions of dollars at their disposal over a period of a decade could not?

Unless someone can present me with solid proof otherwise , I'll stick with the theory that the murders were drug burn related. Manson may or may not have had a hand in them - with all the BS that surrounded the case it was never proved conclusively either way. Forget personal opinion on Manson (he was a thief, conman, freeloader, egotistical nutjob etc), it's clear he didnot receive a fair trial.
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It worked on Mark Chapman!!

Charlie Manson? Amoral? No sh*t.

And Sirhan Sirhan, right?

BTW, George W. Bush sent our troops off to kill how many countless innocent people for his own criminal reasons, and he's free as a bird?

He'd be Manson's cellmate if there was any justice in this world.

100% agreed. Rumsfield and Cheeney can join him!

Get the UK edition, all the Process baloney is still in it.


Walked into that one didn't I? ;D I was just trying to make the distinction between amoral and evil.


I have much respect for the Bug, why, after Stephen King he's my favourite fiction writer.

Same here!  I have been mildly obsessed with it ever since I saw a documentary 16-17 years ago.  Of course, the Beach Boys and Beatles tie in made it even more fascinating.

I've always wondered if any of the remaining Family members ever harassed Dennis after the trial and convictions.  Until they went to prison for their own crimes, it seems to me as if Squeeky and Sandy Good, who have always remained loyal to Charlie, were still trying to do high profile things to spring Charlie out.  I just wonder if anything involving Dennis ever took place.

As far as the Tate/LaBianca murders go, it's all so murky now that I doubt the participants even remember 100% of the truth about those two nights.  I do think the whole Helter Skelter motive is shaky at best.  I do believe that Bugliosi had a week case, which he admits he did early on in the trail, and fabricated parts of the story.  That's not to say that I think Charlie, Tex and the girls are innocent, I just don't think it went down totally like history now says it did.  There have been to many inconsistencies in the stories along the way.  That's not to say that I know the answers, far from it, I just think the absolute truth is still floating around somewhere in the atmosphere more than likely never to be found.

I do think the Tate murders centered more around a drug burn.  IMO, they were probably after Frykowski, who was certainly involved in the CA drug culture at the time, and the others were in the wrong place at the wrong time.   I also believe that despite what some experts tell us, the Polanskis and their pals weren't anywhere near as innocent in their lifestyles as we are lead to believe.  They were all dabbling in drugs if nothing else.  I'd be willing to bet that even if brief and/or minor, the victims had interacted with family members in the past.

The LaBiancas are a bit more difficult to figure out.  There have been plenty of stories of Leno being involved heavily in mob affairs and gambling.  There is talk of a "black book" that Charlie wanted from him.  Who knows?  It's a mystery.  Before this thread, I don't recall ever reading about the possibility of Rosemary being involved in selling drugs.  Interesting.

I don't think Charlie is innocent by any means, especially if he did go with for the LaBianca murders.  I just think that the girls and Tex (along with Beauselei (sp?), Clem and all of the others jumped on the Helter Skelter train in order to shift blame from themselves onto Charlie in hopes of getting out someday (and it worked for Clem!).  I believe they all are where they belong.  I don't believe in the death penalty, but I have no problem at all with life in prison for crimes such as theirs.  Also, though I believe she was an integral part of the conviction of the others, I think Linda Kasabian got away with murder, or at least being an accessory, by turning states evidence.  I don't think she is the little miss innocent that the Bug turned her into either.

I'm just interested in knowing the truth though I'm sure it will never be fully revealed.  Even Kasabian fudged some case facts in the 40th anniversary specials in '09.  Between her, the Bug and Debra Tate (don't get me started on her!  She isn't half the woman her mother and sister Patti were) too many untruths that are taken to be factual have been spread about this case for the truth to see the light at this point.

Sorry to have strayed so far from the topic.  I just always enjoy a good Manson thread!  At least I did put in something Dennis related.

For those that are interested, there a couple of very interesting Manson case blogs that I look at a lot that are full of interesting facts.  Check them out if you are interested in the case.  Here they are:

http://tatelabianca.blogspot.com/ (http://tatelabianca.blogspot.com/)  Tons of info archived here.  About 5 years worth of interesting articles.
http://www.eviliz.com/ (http://www.eviliz.com/)  this one is updated more frequently presently.

Edit:  Just to clarify, in saying that I don't believe the Polanskis and other victims lived the innocent lifestyles we are led to believe, I AM NOT saying that they deserved what happened to them.  Nobody, regardless of anything they have done wrong in life, deserves that kind of brutality.  I just wanted to clarify that.

Great post summed up my feelings exactly. Too much inconsistency in the the principal participant's statements. For example since the 90's Krenwinke has said as to why the caretaker wasn't killed;

a/ "I tried the door to the guesthouse but it was locked and I couldn't enter."
b/ "I entered the guesthouse, but it was empty".
c/ "I got halfway up the path to the guesthouse when I has a flash of conscious and realised what we were doing was wrong".

Get your story straight Pat!

Kasabian was spoonfed by Buglosi what to say on the stand, parroting parts of Sadie's withdrawn testimony. Speaking of Sadie, knife or no knife her claim that she entered the bedroom where Tate and Sebring were and marched them to the main room - Jay was an average sized guy - Sadie weighed about 120 pounds and half of that was in her tits. He could have wrestled the knife off her fairly easily.

I just think the absolute truth is still floating around somewhere in the atmosphere more than likely never to be found.


I agree. We'll never know the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

In case you come back looking around. Dennis had nothing to do with any murders. He was smart and got away from them months befor.

I also agree. And throw, Eisenhower and LBJ in there as well. Obama could be next.

Toss in Henry Kissinger, Paul Wolfowitz, Colin Powell, and Condi Rice as well!

"You're gonna need a bigger cell".  ;D

Nah, let em spend their remaining days in a cramped version of a Twister game.

Question for mike's gut and AvanTodd; why are both of you convinced that Manson had no affiliation with the Process Church of the Final Judgement?  I'm not saying I doubt either of you, but I enjoyed the Sanders book and was curious as to why you were both so sure that the Process stuff was b.s.

Anyway, regarding the goings-on at the Polanski house and other locations, here's an excerpt from a letter Charlie wrote to noted Hollywood gossip columnist William Dakota.  I published the contents of this rare correspondence over on my blog www.crystalsphere1.blogspot.com (http://www.crystalsphere1.blogspot.com), but I'm not sure how many people actually read it.  I should stress that the following are the exact words of Charles Manson, and are re-printed by Dakota directly from his letter.


That's the main excerpt.  The rest is available on my blog for anybody interested.

I highly doubt he knew Elvis!

Yeah, well, who's to say though?  Unless you were running with that particular crowd at the time, it's really impossible to say who knew who.

Jason, at one point in '67-'68 Manson and co were living in very close proximity to The Process headquarters. One of the main duties of the lower level Process members was to sell their literature on the street to fund the commune. Manson undoubtedly picked up one of these magazines in passing one day and cribbed some of their philosophies to add to his repertoire of pseudo hippie sermons.

Most Process members had to live under VERY strict guidelines set out by Mary Ellen and Robert De Grimson, the church's leaders. No sex, no drugs and doing whatever was asked of you without question. Hardly sounds like Charlie's bag now does it?  ;D

Saunder's book was an enjoyable if frustrating read. Remember much of his gossip sources came from a guy called "White Rabbit" who is full of it. He's the guy who convinced authorities a couple of years ago that there were dozens of dead bodies buried behind Spahn and Barker Ranch. A massive dig took place and nothing was found. Zilch. Zero. He's also a convicted pedoass.


Charlie claimed to have played cards at Elvis's mansion. Don't be so suprised, Charlie was hobnobbing with everyone at the time. Melcher was in a lot deeper with him then he would ever admit.