The Smiley Smile Message Board

This has been talked about before, but I thought I would revisit it. In 1974 I believe, Dennis suffered and injury to his throat. I believe somebody punched him in the throat. He was told by doctors to not speak or sing for a certain amount of time. Dennis, being Dennis, wouldn't shut up.  ;D As a result, the quality of his voice changed, and deteriorated over the years. I've been listening to some Beach Boys concerts where Dennis sang, and I think I have narrowed the change in his voice to around early April of 1974. This is the earliest period that I can tell a difference in his voice. My question is, what was the first studio recording where his voice started to sound "different"? Was it the early version of "River Song"? The first officially released recording is probably "In The Still Of The Night", but by then the quality of his voice had changed dramatically. I guess what I'm asking is, is there documented studip recordings where you can hear the changes in his voice as they were happening? As has been mentioned in the "California Feeling" thread, it seems as though there are recordings of Brian that document his voice in the process of changing. I was just wondering if this is the case with Dennis.

I don't know about 1974 - if you listen to the Carnegie Hall performance of God Only Knows from 1972, he was already starting to sound raspy then. Not sure if that's just a fluke in relation to the later change in voice, but there it is.

if you listen to Luau from 1961 he was sounding raspy then.

Maybe it depends on what "things" he taken be it booze or drugs to me that's caused a massive change in his voice but if I'm wrong if it was because of fights, etc. Then I stand corrected. But Brian's voice changed more or less the same time?? And he as far as I know didn't have fights or mishaps. Also I read I think on here that when Murry died both Dennis and esp Brian started to sound more and more like their dad??.

Maybe Ed Roach would know more?

Didn't I see someone posit somewhere that Brian admired the change in Dennis' voice, and deliberately sought to emulate it by "smoking like a chimney to get that husky sound", hence part of the reason for the change in his voice in late '74/early '75?  If so, the timing is right.

The crazy part is is that Carl smoked more than either of them and his voice didn't suffer too badly.

Well when you consider  that 15 Big Ones was their first new studio album in over 3 years since Holland and that Carl sang on Dennis' songs on Holland, you'd have to listen to So Tough and then skip to 15 Big Ones. His voice still sounded great on So Tough but then raspy on 15 Big Ones. So it was definitely some time during the mid 70s, '74 isn't probably too far off. And yeah I'm sure Ed Roach would know better.

In 73 Dennis still had a fine voice. Yes, he didn't sing on the Holland cuts, but live recordings prove he could still sing as well as before. Which is one of the reasons I'm still PISSED he's not on the In Concert album singing.

River Song the studio outtakes is the last where he has his young voice. It was done around 1973. He was punched by Steve Love I think.
Go here we had three good pages on it
http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,5475.0.html

Thanks for the link MBE, Makes for very sad reading like it says unfortunely high coke use and other forms of "High living" never suites anyone. As for the fights Dennis had esp in 1974/5 and 1981 that didnt help too but maybe?? Dennis just didn't give himself time to heal???. Again one for Ed Roach or another insider close to Dennis would enlighten us. The sad thing is that as time went on Dennis became more and more difficult to reason with, And I know very sadly from personal problems in my family there's only so much you can do, Only so much you can forgive, When you tried everything you can to help the ones you love and nothing you or others can do will help, There's nothing left but "Tough love". We as fans love Dennis very much and his music and big heart have touched us and enriched our lifes as it did his family and friends who all did everything possible to save Dennis from his demons. I always remember on the POB doc on BBC2 a few years ago Ed Roach in tears saying "There's no more I could do to help him" and the guilt he must of felt which wasn't at all justifled as we all do when something like this happens to someone we love and care about. I'm sorry if I come across all knowing but I really feel for ones who are left behind or who are doing everything possible to save loved ones like Dennis.
Sorry for being so serious everyone, and I'm just glad I personally never touched drugs, One pint is enough for me to get me drunk total lightweight!!

No problem I thought it was a great thread. I haven't really changed how I feel much in the three years since then because nothing major has come up for me with Dennis on the underground circut. I still hope to hear a lot more one day.

Wanted to add one thing. I have a friend who will likely die from his crack addiction. I have tried to help but it is no use. He's still my friend but it's sad because I can't trust him around my money things like that. I think the only way he will get help is if he wants it and wants to change. As of now he doesn't.

Dennis just didn't reach the point yet where he was ready to change. I don't think he wanted to die exactly but perhaps he just felt all was lost. Carl and Brian managed to pull it together and really it's wonderful they did. I myself never touched hard drugs either and am thankful that my love of The Beach Boys really showed me the dangers at a young age.

His singing may have turned gruff, but on the 1976 special, Dennis's speaking voice still sounded pure.

I hear a difference in his voice on So Tough compared to Sunflower - his voice is cracking and straining on Cuddled Up in a way it didn't on Sunflower or Sound of Free.

Good call...I'd say that his voice on So Tough is perhaps suggestive of what was to come later.

No offense, but Dennis wasn't all that great with higher notes. Listen to "Never Learn Not To Love" when he's doing "closer, closer" part. He really strains his voice. So I'm not sure if Cuddle Up is a great example. I do agree that his cracked and strained his voice on that, though. But I'm not sure that it was really a result of something changing in his voice. Besides, I though I read that his throat injury didn't happen until 1974.

his vocals on slip on through and got to know the woman showed some sweet dexterity that didn't last much longer. 

As anyone who's heard it will confirm, Dennis' lead vocal on "(WIBNT)LA" is as sweet as any he'd ever cut.

The rest of us will just pretend we know it is.

Can you just post a link in the media section, maybe using your secret ID "mikes beard"  ;D

I used to also think that the CATP tracks did indeed have a bit more graininess and "break" to them in Denny's voice -- at least that's what I used to hear when I was a wee lad and would compare them to something like his confident, youthful and limber vocals on Sunflower, Sound Of Free, etc. That is, as beautiful and sublime as a track like Cuddle Up might be, there seemed to be a slight vocal shift that I couldn't quite peg at the time.

Listening these days, I *almost* hear that similar quality in something from a few years earlier like A Time To Live In Dreams -- with maybe just a touch more grain on the '72 studio stuff. Thus, I'm not so sure that it simply isn't a mode of delivery that  partially created that sound, with as others have noted, perhaps just a slight, yet still noticeable shift at that point. At the very least, not the full-blown rasp and damage that would start to appear 2-3 years later. I'll also add that I, too, am dreaming of the day that we can all hear Wouldn't It Be Nice To Live Again from '71. It's my number one Beach Boys *must hear* at this point. Hopefully in my lifetime.


I guess a few other fairly decent indicators of his post CATP work, and before the definite, unquestionable damage to his voice, would be his short vocal tag on the live version of Only With You, his part on God Only Knows at the end and his lead vocal on Rhonda, all from Carnegie Hall, November of '72, as well as his (second-half) part on Carry Me Home -- which IIRC is late '72 or early '73, too. Like the CATP tracks, perhaps a bit more grain, gruff and lack of dexterity (though he still shows some pretty good range on his high notes during Carry Me Home), but it still sounds like bona fide, pre-full blown, vocally-damaged Dennis to me. :)

PS - On a somewhat related note, and something that I've been meaning to ask Andrew about, glancing at Bellagio, it mentions Denny's "Slow Song" from late '72. Is there any chance that this could actually be Carry Me Home (which I don't see an exact session date for), or is it something completely different?

The live Cuddle Up doesn't have as much strain and that was done after. Also I heard a live Forever from the end of 1973 as pristine as any other version.

Hearing stuff like this truly does remind me, as someone else duly noted, what a shame it was that Dennis was pretty much vocally shut-out as he was on the In Concert album  (even more bizarre considering that he features so prominently on the front and back cover!).

Listening to the Carnegie show again, I had almost forgotten that he took Bruce's part during the end tag of God Only Knows. That in itself seems kind of cool to me.

yeah, rub it in all of our faces that we haven't heard the greatest unreleased BB ttrack OS all time!

I know not all of the reasons for Brian's and Dennis' voices going south aren't the same. That being said, I was wondering if anyone with some knowledge of throat problems could take a guess as to whether, and if at all how much, Dennis' voice could've recovered had he taken a "healthy" (the mistreatment by Landy, not withstanding) path such as Brian in the 80's.

I would guess had he stayed sober from 1975 on it would have gone back. By 1981 though I'm not sure if it could have been saved.

Dennis talks quite a bit during Help Me Rhonda from the July 4th 1981 Washington DC show. He keeps telling everybody to clap, etc. His voice sounds totally changed. It's much deeper. If you didn't already know who it was, you'd probably never guess it was Dennis. But his voice doesn't sound hoarse at all, at least to me. Before the first song is played at the Seattle show in 1983, Dennis walks* up to the microphone and says "Are you ready?", and it sounds basically the same as the Washington '81 show.


*Well, it's not necessarily a "walk", but that's another story....

Perhaps Carl, despite his chain-smoking, was a 'pure' singer, in that he used his vocal chords without straining them overmuch? And Dennis used them in the wrong way, so that he taxed them beyond what they were capable of? I read numerous times of singers in classical music, who learn from specialized coaches how to sing without damaging their chords.

Oh, I won't say that cocaine and cigarettes aren't harmful to your voice. But the above option seems rather credible to me too.

Tiny bump on this one. Was wondering if anyone might have some info on it?

TIA,
Dave

Um, AGD isn't mikes beard. I'm mikes beard. I wish I knew half the BB related stuff Andrew does.  ;D

Say, how is life hanging attached to the chin of the Mighty Mikester?

Itchy.  :P

 :lol

Listening to the Nassau Colosseum boot, and comparing it with another boot from 1973, I can hear a definite change in Dennis' voice. It's subtle, but it's there. I'd say Nassau sounds like a mid point between his earlier and later voices.

Hey! You're reminding me of Uma's Pulp Fiction Tomato Family joke....

There's evidence to suggest that you're right, not the least of which is Carl opting to do the lower midrange harmony whenever possible.  As far as the harmonies go, he had a much less strenuous range to sing in than Al.  Or anybody, for that matter.  Even though Carl had monster range, he seems to have avoided singing super high falsetto unless he was forced to a la "Surf's Up".  L.A. LIGHT ALBUM is the rare exception where Carl is doing a lot of the "Brian" parts.

I have a little bit of the Carl tone in the head voice range from about F# to B above middle C and I can tell you once you find that transition voice (it took me many years...I'm no Carl Wilson), it's fun to sing there and you can do it all day and all night and not hurt yourself.  Go above that and you start to have to be careful.  That seems to be where Carl liked to hang out vocally.

Lovely insight as usual :).

How did you find it? Practice practice practice?

Ha ha ha...you're going to think this is a joke, but I'll tell you how I first found that voice:

When I was in my mid 20s I was in a band with a lovely guy named Robert Ramos, and one of his things was to do an imitation of Michael McDonald:  "You don't know me, but I'm your brother..."  So the way young guys do, I started to imitate his imitation, as a joke.  And then after a while I kind of went "wow, it's actually easier to sing up here this way than the way I've been doing it."

It's the trickiest register to learn to sing in, and it's always the first thing I lose when I lose my voice for some reason -- very annoying to lose the middle of your register!  It took quite a few years to get the crossover notes solid so I didn't sound like a kid hitting puberty or it didn't sound too weak coming out of full voice.  But the transitions are real easy now.  So yeah, practice.  But I started down that road by making fun of the Doobie Brothers.  And tell you what...with that register I can sing nearly everything Carl Wilson did.  I'm not saying I have as pretty a voice or as precise pitch or anything like that, and he knew a lot of other tricks with his breath that I'll never begin to learn, but in terms of singing the parts, I can do them without much trouble.  It's a great lovely range to be able to sing in.  I can't blame Carl for wanting to stick to it.  The super high merda, while I can do it, is not nearly as much fun.  Bet Carl felt the same way:  "Hey Brian?  Al?  Bruce?  I have a part for you..."