The Smiley Smile Message Board

Some of you collector type: what would be the best way to get word to people who might have SMiLE tapes, acetates, etc.?

As a sticky on message boards like here, Hoffman's, more specialized boards? Articles in Record Collector, Billboard, Rolling Stone, etc.? Blogs, swap meet posters, Penny Saver? I'm sure I'm showing my age and ignorance but what are some good ideas? Or is the whole thing a bad idea and none of it would likely reach the right people?

A Presidential Address to the nation. Live, simultaneously broadcast on all stations. The words 'patriotic duty' should be used multiple times. Also: 'appropriate punishment in case of...', 'Guantánamo Bay', and 'waterboarding'.

Will that do?

Good start! What else?

That sounds about right. Tho for those who don't tune into presidential addresses, I'd add they should attach large billboards on both sides of the Goodyear blimp and do multiple passses over every square inch of the US, Japan, UK and Germany( where most of the obsessive coillectors reside)

How about an appeal on Dancing With The Stars or Two and a Half Men or their equivalent in countries outside the US?

In all seriousness, when the telemetry tape search began for the Apollo 11 raw TV footage, the first port of call were the National Archives, NASA and JSC. (In the case of the BBs these would be Capitol Archives, Brother and whichever studios were woirked at during Smile.

Then engineers who worked at tracking stations and the TV departments of network TV stations were approached. In the BBs case this would be the engineers, and artists who were actively involved in thesessions, perhaps even local DJs etc who may have been given acetates.

Then über-space relic collectors were approached to see what they may have had in their collection. In one case a lead was discovered by a post on google videos which did yield the clearest view of Armstrong coming down the ladder. In the BBs case this would be collectors known to have material that isn't widely circulated. In NASA's case a waiver against prosecution was made, so too should it be in the BBs case.

When these resources were drying up, the approval was sought to broadcast the search on the news wires. That then opened up places such as the CBS archives and people who may not have internet connection.


In the end while the telemtry tapes were not found, the clearest best looking video made after scan conversion certainly was and the difference is very noticeable.

And this was all to find footage of them faking the landing in the desert?

Thems is fighting words...

<chews on my tibacce>

Yeah... and the flag was waving in a wind that can't exist...

Are you all insinuating that the SMiLE fragments were recorded in an Air Force hanger in the desert of Nevada?

Yeah and everyone knows microphones dont work in a vacuum so that rules out that Smile was recorded on the moon.

I was under the impression that all of those avenues had been pursued and all that was left was collectors and theives and cohorts/heirs. Maybe I'm wrong.

Maybe we can find the ashes from the fire that consumed Surf's Up pt. 2....I wouldn't mind keeping that in an urn above the mantle.

Cam, the funniest thing with the A11 stuff is that is was found is the most unlikely of places. A TV station in Sydney also had some Honeysuckle Creek footage as opposed to the Goldstone footage (go to www.honeysucklecreek.net for background on the two tracking stations) and no-one thought to look there. It was found because I knew the archivist and off-handedly suggested looking there. Half-baked conspiracy rubbish notwithstanding.

One wonders how many copies of Ant Bee's DYLWs such a process would turn up?

Well guys, that has shattered my SMiLE preconceptions. I'm not even sure I want this boxset anymore....

Just to underscore the situation Cam is addresssing, here's a quote from Mark Linett, taken from the 2004 interview with him and Darian published in Sound on Sound:

"We've pretty well searched all the legitimate places," explains Mark. "I've been through the library from CBS, where Brian used to do vocals, for example; all the places that we assume would bring up tapes if they still existed. An awful lot of SMiLE has simply gone missing over the years. What's tragic about it is that I think some of it's not inadvertent; I think people have deliberately stolen stuff. So some tapes couldn't be referenced to finish the record."

And from later in the same article:

"I hope some day we can get all this stuff back", says Mark. "I don't care how somebody got something — if they have it, I'd love to hear from them."

I do think Mark and Alan have leads. What I wonder is do they have (Capitol's) cash to dangle carrot-like in front of the hoarders? But doesn't this stuff technically belong to Capitol, and/or BRI in the first place? I'm hoping someone can chime in on the legalities of these matters.

As much as I loved BWPS for achieving so grandly what it sought out to do - that is, assemble the known SMiLE pieces into a listenable sequence in the here and now - at the time I couldn't help but be disappointed by the lack of previously-unknown knowledge that came out of that archival effort. Basically, we had two things: 1. the vintage "Worms" melody and lyrics (and even then, we had already seen most of those lyrics before in ESQ), and 2. Alan Boyd's discovery of the "I'm In Great Shape" backing track recorded at an H&V session in October (and even then, we had already heard the Humble Harv November 4 demo). The rest of BWPS was either working with the source material we had already heard on bootlegs, or 2003-period segues, assemblies, and lyrics.

The $64 million question in my mind is what has happened in the years since? Who has been approached? What leads have turned up? What tapes have turned up? I'm afraid that anyone who has enough insider information to truly answer those questions is not in a position to do so on a public message board. At least not yet...

In the meantime, what can WE do to be helpful (and not a hindrance) in the archival recovery efforts? Anything?? I doubt that those of us far from the inner circles (which is me, certainly, and 99% of the posters here I would imagine) can't really do much of anything, other than wait and discuss.

I say get Charlie Sheen involved immediately and have him mention it on his webcasts.  ;D

That makes two great posts "Catbirdman"!

For as excited as we are about the upcoming release, Mark's statement along with what Alan has said is very sobering. We're not going to hear much we're unfamiliar with simply because a lot of the material has disappeared. Even that vintage "Worms" melody used on BWPS was reportedly remembered by Brian himself and not found on the original tapes. I guess any little nuggets will be thrilling, but I won't expect too much more.

I was thinking along the same lines but with well-worn copies of "Endless Summer" flooding into the offices instead of actual Smile material.

Well since then alan boyd has been going through the Beach Boys archive with a fine toothcomb, cataloguing tapes and listening to EVERYTHING so previously unknown stuff stuck at the end of a reel for an album or a single session would be revealed.  I'm sure that some new stuff has come out of this search - it sounds like it from Mark's interview.

Whenever they get a lead about missing tapes, they pursue it - as they did with the Shut Down Vol. 2 tapes a couple of years ago where they got back some missing multis.  With the announcement of this project hopefully people that have tapes in their possession will contact Alan and try to arrange something so they can be used.

I hope so also; but I think there will have to be $$ changing hands for that to happen; Part of the collectibility of having an acetate with otherwise unheard material is being the only one that can listen to it. Once it's copied, it will diminish in value somewhat. How much is tough to say

Good point. You know, I have an odd optimism about this release - my gut feeling is that we'll actually be treated to LOTS that we haven't heard before, just as a result of Alan's digging over the past 7-8 years. I mean, all it takes is to find one unlabelled comp reel and right there you very well could have a handful of works-in-progress, snapshots that stand on their own even if the multis remain missing or incomplete.

A quick off-the-top-of-my-head list of documented sessions that could turn up, either through finding the multi-tracks or mono mixdowns:
- the mix of Wind Chimes that Michael Vosse describes in the Fusion article
- vox for I Ran
- more vox for CIFOTM
- the missing IIGS vocal session
- the missing Cabin Essence tracking
- and of course the holy grail: the Jan. 23 session for Surf's Up (my gut tells me this one is lost for good though... they couldn't even find it back in '71)

Wow, I had not heard about that about the Shut Down Vol. 2 tapes; been lost and gone and unknown for a while, not checking BB message boards. Could you share more of the story? How it all happened, what exactly was found (the whole LP?), etc.

try these topics, catbirdman:

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,7109.0.html
http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,7746.0.html
http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,8214.msg171839.html#msg171839

Thank you kind sir. Reading and enjoying now.

So those tapes turned up as a result of an article in a local publication. Seems kind of a random and magical tale.

I was just wondering, why not use social media as a way of getting word out? If Capitol is really serious about finding lost tapes, perhaps they could tweet that they're looking for them? Put something on their Facebook page. Liaise with various trade mags and musical entities to tweet the same message: Capitol Records looking to recover lost Beach Boys tapes, bla bla bla... just get it into the public consciousness.

You know, it's kind of interesting that the Billboard pieces from a week or so did NOT include a plea to "collectors" from Linett/Boyd/Capitol.

On the other hand, in 1995, when Capitol was talking about doing a 3-cd set called The Smile Era, Mark Linett DID actually make the sort of plea that you guys are talking about...

"The other big thing is we're hoping to look around and see if, now, with this project in hand, if we can't find some of this material that seems to have slipped out of the vaults over the years... Anybody out there who has anything to contribute. I'd certainly love to hear from them, anonymously or otherwise."
- Mark Linett, in Billboard, Feb. 4, 1995, p. 127.

The 1995 article, by the way, has quite a few interesting comments.  At that time, Linett mentions having "somewhere about 350, 400 minutes" (i.e., 6 or 7 hours) of Smile material not including Good Vibrations material.

Now, of course, he's talking about having 30 hours of Smile sessions, not including GV, so it's possible that they've found quite a bit of material over the last 16 years.

See Billboard, 2/4/95, courtesy of Google Books...
Page 10
http://books.google.com/books?id=sAsEAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PA10&ots=uDQ5Dd2oks&dq=%22beach%20boys%20flash%20smile%22&pg=PA10#v=onepage&q&f=false
Page 127
http://books.google.com/books?id=sAsEAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PA10&ots=uDQ5Dd2oks&dq=%22beach%20boys%20flash%20smile%22&pg=PA127#v=onepage&q&f=false

To me it seems like they welcome help, why not us? If we could come up with some focused ideas we could pitch them, maybe they wouldn't seem so helpful? Who knows.

There would be logistics and issues that would have to be worked out before anything happened I suppose whether that was complicated or simple. Maybe I'm just pissin' into the wind?

didn't someone here say that brian's camp has been reaching out for smile tapes since 04?  I can't imagine anybody would say no to brian.

This may be the time to mention that I was in touch with "Desmond Jones" many years ago, and referred Alan Boyd to him at the time. I believe an offer was made and turned down (or something like that), and besides, his claims of having unknown material were probably limited to stuff that has since seen the light of day or his personal mixes.

Just to remind for the discussion - his big coup was supposedly a tape of "Do A Lot" with toothbrushing sound effects.

He also played a Cool Cool Water, with chant (not the Da Da section that surfaced later) with water sound effects added, probably his own mix, can't remember, over the phone. He may have claimed it was original. Even if it was an original mix, couldn't have been from Smile of course, strictly speaking, since the 1st CCW was recorded a little later. Can't remember the exact structure of the version after all these years.

OK, I'm going to regret posting this, but:  I saw Alan Boyd last night and I asked him specifically what new stuff they had found so far for the SMiLE sessions.  His first answer back to me was, "well, what have you heard?"  Which was a fair question given the avalanche of bootlegs that have gotten out there.  I'm not going to relay the contents of a private conversation, and he of course didn't talk too much about details, but I don't think he'd be too bothered if I relayed that they have found some new stuff.  Of what was told to me, one thing in particular that he said they had just discovered raised an eyebrow and made me go "whoa, really?"

My take on it, based on the minimal information I was told, was that there will be some cool unheard material, but people should also keep their hopes in check, because some of the "holy grail" material just isn't there to be found.  Also keep in mind that Alan and Mark don't have the final say on what gets released.  But you know those guys will do the best they can, and we should all thank them for their efforts.

I assume that your comment was tongue in cheek, but I think something "off the wall" like that just might work. Just hear me out on this for a minute:

Somebody like Charlie Sheen learns about SMiLE and hears it and totally goes nuts over it. He then happens to mention it in an interview/blog/tweet. Since he's in the media 24/7, somebody just might get curios enough to snoop around. Somebody remembers hearing about an obscure family tale about a distant family member having an old dusty and  dirty tape with "Cabinessence" or some weird sh*t on it. Somebody tracks down the tape and sends it along to the right people.

The moral of this story is, NEVER underestimate the ability of people and media coming together to surprise the hell out of us, even in the most dire circumstances.

No regrets, Adam! Very discreet, and thanks for sharing.

Can't help but like the sound of that!

Totally understand, though, your need to safeguard the details of a private conversation.

And, yes, before our imaginations run wild, we do need to keep our expectations in check.  No matter what is released, some Smile "holy grails" will undoubtedly remain lost.

Nonetheless, awesome news that at least one thing has been found that made a hardcore fan go "whoa, really?"

He really didn't tell me much, not that he was unforthcoming but just in terms of specifics -- and of course he has to be circumspect about what he says to me and others while the project is ongoing, but I just saw people getting a little carried away with their wish lists and I felt like I should say something.

Alan is one of the true unsung heroes in Beach Boy world and he's paid a real price for it.  It's kind of a no-win situation that he and Mark are in, with fan expectations and also being beholden to the various interests that have to approve a release.  I just want everybody to know they're genuinely doing their best and we should be thankful for what we get and for their efforts.

Thanks for posting.  Without revealing what was said, what would your speculation be about our chances of hearing unbooted H&V material - particularly the early "barroom brawl" version?  Not asking whether you were told this one way or another, but just what you are guessing at this point.

Thanks for that info adamghost - encouraging stuff!

I understand what you say about tempering expectations for "holy grail" items turning up, but based on your conversation (especially the "whoa" thing) would you say there might be one or two "revelations" or major finds? Or is the "whoa" thing something that's interesting but not necessarily a big find that will fill in a piece of the puzzle?

Thanks for sharing Adamghost and much appreciated. Great to hear there is new stuff.

I'm going to keep my hopes in check and assume that 'no smile holy grails' is going to rule out the possibility of an alternate heroes edit or surf's up part 2. It's great to hear that they have found new stuff though - fantastic news and let's hope it makes the cut.

And yes, of course, much gratitude to Mark and Alan. A thankless task, but I'm sure what they deliver will be outstanding. Very exciting times!

C'mon buddha, that's not what he said.  We don't want to misquote him.

He actually said "some of the 'holy grail' material just isn't there to be found."

That doesn't mean there will be holy grail material, but it doesn't mean there won't be either.

I really don't want to get Alan in trouble by saying any more...we were just shooting the merda, and I don't want to create the impression that he was out there spilling details or anything, or that I know that much.  He wasn't and I don't.  It was a casual conversation.  Just my general impression was, yes, cool new stuff, but at the same time I would keep expectations in check.   Speaking personally now, I feel that if it's available, Alan and Mark will certainly do their best to get it out there, and after that it's in the laps of the gods (e.g. Capitol and the band/managers and whoever else has to sign off on it).

Reverse psychology!! I was hoping Adamghost would jump in to clarify that he didn't say "no holy grail material' and that actually the 6 minute Heroes was still in the offing, but to no avail! (Ok, not really, I just misread his post).

Still, from what Adamghost's kindly (and discreetly) shared, I'm thinking "keep expectations in check" is the most important information here.

Call me an optimist, but I'm thinking the most important information here is "whoa, really?"

Thanks man for sharing this with us. You did a fine job of respecting confidentiality while giving us a tantalizing glimpse into what's happening.

Personally, I am preparing myself for this set by assuming that NONE of the "holy grails" will turn up - i.e. the January 23 Surf's Up, Child vocals, Shape vocals, alternate Heroes mixes/edits, etc. Instead, I am focusing on the slam dunks - pristine-quality versions of Child, Holidays, and the like. My anticipation is through the roof just for those alone. In the back of my mind I have an odd sense of optimism, but I'm holding it in check.

That said, one nagging fear remains, and you alluded to it above... it's the "laps of the gods." My biggest fear with this whole business is that Brian will veto pieces we've all been dying to hear for years, or even worse, things will get ultra-complicated and they'll end up pulling the plug on the release altogether. I was reading that article from back in 1995 when "The Smile Era" was slated for release, and was reminded that we've been here before, and look what happened...

Of course the main difference then was that they didn't have the support of the band (especially Brian), whereas now, they do. Or so we understand...

But I worry...

I'm just voicing these fears aloud in the hope that you all will talk me down. Tell me to relax. Convince me my hope isn't misplaced.

Makes two of us :D

I think we've heard about a good 95% of what still exists (at least I know I have)...it's the other 5% that's the killer.

I don't have any specific knowledge, but my general sense just from scuttlebutt from various people is Brian hasn't raised any big objections to anything.  But it is the Beach Boys, after all, and based on past history it's not irrational to worry about last minute complications.  I don't know of anything particular brewing.  I do get the sense that everyone involved wants it out.  But the hows and whats...we'll just have to wait and see how it all shakes out.

Everyone please keep in mind I'm not any kind of insider (nor do I want to be), I just happen to live in L.A., have some extremely tenuous Beach Boys ties, and have a lot of friends who have friends so stuff just hits me by osmosis.  Take it for what it's worth.

Sooooooo....is that all we got on the spread-the-news-thing? Well, it probably was that great an idea anyway.

Thanks a million for sharing Adam!  I pretty much echo everyone else's sentiments, in that I'm just excited for good quality versions of the stuff we've heard.  Hearing a few new tidbits is just icing on the already incredible cake. 

I can't imagine being in Alan and Mark's shoes, with all of the super-high expectations out there and having to work within the tangled web that is the Beach Boys.  I do share Catbirdman's concerns to a degree (and given past history, how can you not?), but I'm hoping that age has mellowed the remaining members a little bit, and they realize that it's better to get this stuff released sooner rather than later.

Just my own personal opinion, based on what (admittedly extremely little) I know about this...I think age, the passing of time, and the preference for it to not be released posthumously* is a big part of it.


*= No, nobody I know of is sick or anything. Just getting on up there.

Great to hear that Brian seems cooperative and unopposed to anything in particular being included. Let's hope the other power brokers all rule similarly. This is one project where everything AND the kitchen sink should definitely be included, at least as far as all separate extant musical fragments and pieces, no matter how short, are concerned. Redundant session stuff is expendable (in general, with some exceptions depending on various factors).

Mark mentioned in his interview that they are keeping the release date open-ended in hopes of procuring additional material right up 'til the 11th hour. Hope that approach is bearing fruit, or soon will!

First of all, no way are there 30 hours of Smile sessions in the BB archive to choose from for this release.  I suspect he's talking about is that out of the total 30 hours plus of Smile sessions that were held in 66-67, they are going to select (from what they have) 4 CD's worth.  If I'm wrong, it means a huge cache of previously unknown tapes have been discovered, and there's no suggestion of that or evidence of that.

It will be interesting to see what Brian signs off on - now that Fire was released in BWPS, and the Surf's Up demo was on the GV box set, and the cantina Heroes was released on the 2 fer, it's hard for me to imagine what he might object to. 

"Denny, do you have any hash joints…"

I also doubt we'll hear something like "These keys have f**cked up action" during the "Wonderful" tracking session.

I wondered after many listens to that if he didn't say "Danny..." as in Danny Hutton.

That was my understanding.



If I recall correctly, didn't it get posted here that there were *more* than 30 hours in the vaults?

I would hope that if Brian, Mike and/or Al do object to anything, it's limited to the studio chatter, skits, rants, etc.   And if anything along those lines under consideration is cut because Brian, Mike or Al don't like it, that's totally understandable.  No problem at all.

For >99% of fans, including the diehards here, the MUSIC is where it's at.  We don't need the extracurricular activities (and if anyone does want to hear that sort of thing, there are other sources).  Maybe if we think and wish and hope and pray, Brian, Mike and Al will have no objections to any of the music.  It'll be a shame if some cool discovery is held back and saved for Smile Sessions 2.0 decades from now.

I don't think they will limit the studio chatter too much - you're right that there are other sources that give us this material, however I highly doubt Capitol will agree with that approach. It'll be just like the PS Sessions - equal time for all the stuff - and with four discs there is plenty of room for music, chatter, skits, alternate versions, etc. Just my opinion though.

Since acetates are being sourced for this release, I hope Brian doesn't object to using them because the sound quality is subpar.  I'm sure they will try to use what they have on tape to recreate the acetate mixes - but of course our hope is there is material on the acetates that doesn't exist on tape.  And that stuff MUST be released, PLEASE!

Arg! I'd be incredibly disappointed if they didn't put acetate material in this set - I really think they will though. And just to give us a heads-up as to why the quality sucks I bet they'll put "(acetate mix)" after the song name instead of "(stereo [or mono] mix)" as they usually do.

I would like to hear the acetates only if they contain some thing that isn't available on tape - what is on them seems to be an important part of Smile history and I am sure Alan and Mark will want to present the development of the album and each song as accurately as possible - if the acetates play an important role in this because they tape doesn't exist then great.

Of course it may be that the acetates don't have anything on them that isn't already available and that this 'Holy Acetate' thing is not so holy after all.

I have about 10 hours of Smile stuff including stuff like wot came out on the GV Box Set - I reckon there would EASILY be 30 hours in the archives - one only has to look at the number of takes that were done on each track plus all the vocals etc etc etc etc - and that allows for tape overs

Well I Tweeted Durrie - no reply last time I looked

Look at it this way - if they had 30 hours of tapes, they could release a 4 CD box set of all previously unbooted material.  Actually, 20 CD's.  You think there's 20 hours of unbooted material that's been in the vaults all this time that SOT and Secret Smile couldn't get to?  Or a cache of tapes worth 20 hours of time has been uncovered?  We surely would have heard about that before now. Color me sceptical.

Suspect SoT edited out plenty of studio chatter to fit stuff onto the three in the CDs – can't see them wanting to add a fourth CD with only ten minutes of music, for instance, simply because Brian had them rewind the tape mid-take*, or because Hal Blaine had a choking fit half-way through He Gives Speeches*.



* These are fictitious examples for the purposes of illustration, and are not in any way meant to imply that Wee Helper has any knowledge of tapes that might, or might not, have come to light in the Smile archive. No cats were harmed in the making of this post. Other listings magazines are available.

OK, let me think about this. A few years back I put together a "SMiLE Archives" for myself - it came out to 14 discs. Each disc was around an hour long - so that's 14 hours right there. Now consider a few things:

1. I do have some redundancy; if a particular bit appears in various sources and I couldn't decide which sounded best, I put all the sources on there. That's about 2 hours of redundancy, at most. So now we're down to 12 hours.

2. I also have a good bit - probably 2-3 hours - of spoken tom foolery, and I'm not sure if Mark was counting that stuff in his 30 hours or not. Let's say he wasn't. So now we're down to 9 hours.

3. The session material I have usually contains mainly just the talkback from the control room in between takes, and the actual takes themselves are often edited out. The tapes Mark and Alan have, however, are unexcised, naturally, so I would expect them to have exponentially more hours of raw session tape than I have. So with that point, I think it's reasonable to at LEAST double the 9 hours - maybe even round it to an even 20.

So there's evidence of approximately 20 hours worth of SMiLE that exists right there, leaving around 10 hours that the bootleggers never found. I guess I'm a little skeptical too, but I do think it's possible.

Sort of a rhetorical question here, but has anyone considered that much of the missing Smile material might have simply been wiped and recorded over for other projects?  Brian was clearly not afraid to do this with things that he considered over and done with, as he certainly was with Smile.  You can hear what are likely the missing vocal tracks for "The Little Girl I Once Knew" faintly in the background on the "Psychedelic Talk" found on the Pet Sounds SOT (And it's possible that the missing vocals for "Good Vibrations" suffered a similar fate).

I would say that the evidence of sessions for stuff like "Surf's Up Part 2"...something that seems to have never been part of the BB tape library leads some credence to this theory.

Another possibility is that they find acetates consisting entirely of material available on better-sounding session tapes, but not edited as on the acetates.  So would we then get versions edited together from the session tapes in order to match the acetates?  I would assume so, given the editing on the GV box set.

That begs the larger question of just how much speculation will go into any edits.  If they're doing the "suite" concept on disc 1, I assume they'll be disregarding history altogether, so who knows what we'll get.  But what about the other discs?  Will they be entirely unedited sessions, or will attempts be made to edit that material into the original concepts for various songs?

There's no reason to think the session discs won't be edited to make them flow better. On the PS Box, the sessions are edited in places. One that springs to mind is the That's Not Me session. It starts with the piano intermezzo (Dennis playing?) but it's butt-edited straight into a take of That's Not Me, whereas the piano intermezzo plays for quite a while on the original tapes.

I feel for Mark because I think with this release there will be a lot of uptightness about editing the session material, especially if there is a lot of editing on the playable disc part, which presumably there has to be. I just hope people can balance their own wants with the awareness that this boxset has to appeal to non die-hards too!

We know CD1 will be the "finished" songs to the extent that is possible- even if missing elements like vocals (or in the case of The Elements, missing earth and air - unless you believe vegetables and wind chimes are the missing elements - or in the case of I'm in Great Shape, likely missing a section or two).  Plus the outtakes - complete songs not represented on BWPS, plus likely different mixes of songs, either from acetate or newly reedited mixes from tape duplicating the acetate mixes.  All mono.

So CD2-4 will be session excerpts, complete instrumental tracks, some vocal isolation tracks, vocal session excerpts, and alternate versions/mixes not on CD1.  Hopefully any of the all mono CD1 that can be presented in stereo will be in stereo on these CD's, that seems to be what Mark was saying.

I don't think anyone is suggesting that we'll hear unedited session tapes - with only 3 CD's that would be a waste of space.

I don't know....Alan Boyd has talked about how many Smile era tape boxes exist but when opened they were empty. That seems a bit unusual if not suspicious. It was standard operating procedure at Abbey Road to wipe session tapes but the tape boxes certainly don't exist for the missing sessions. You won't find a bunch of empty tape boxes with session details written on them that once contained the session tapes for Piper at the Gates of Dawn or With the Beatles. The tape boxes as well as the tapes are long gone.

FWIW some of the missing tapes represent the *final* work on the track in question rather than just the tracking sessions or the session tape survives but the "best" take that was earmarked for overdubs was snipped out the reel and no longer exist. No way they just decided to tape over the, let's say, Old Master Painter multitrack containing Denny's vocal overdub.

Then there is the lack of BW mixes from the sessions. Clearly Brian and Chuck created mixes of way more material that is represented on the tapes. Where did that stuff go?

I'm sure someone can explain this better than I can but....the good thing about acetates is since they are usually mono it's easy to drastically reduce surface noise by summing the L and R channels which reduces the volume of pops and tics by half (or something like that). The surface noise is stereo but the musical info is mono.

No doubt some of it was "borrowed" and never returned.  But how much of that was before Carl and Desper made safety copies a mere four years later?  I think it will be interesting to see what shows up and what doesn't show up on the box.


Not suggesting that everything that's missing was taped over, but it might account for some of it.  It's clear that by 66/67, Brian was a bit more destructive with the vocal tapes of finished material.  The Columbia vocal tapes in particular were essentially useless to him once he had made his final mono mix, and he treated them as such.


I've become convinced that when Brian said later in the 70's that he destroyed some of the Smile tapes he probably meant stuff like this.

There was a bootleg box set of SMiLE that was supposed to be released last year. As I understand it, it was supposed to be approximately 22 cd's.

Some years back, there was a lawsuit filed by the BBs ( which they lost, I understand) against someone that was trying to sell ( thru an auction house, maybe in the UK?) a lot of things they bought from a "Garage sale" at the BB's warehouse. I'm just wondering if it's possible this person also ended up with any tapes.
 Can't remember the seller's name, but I'm thinking he lives/lived in Florida.  Anyone remember this, and the person's name?

Hey Chris!
Fancy seeing you here  ;D.

Hey Dan,

I was just about to PM you. I think I'm a tad embarrased someone I know saw my crazed rants here  :lol

See:
http://www.tmz.com/2006/12/27/beach-boys-booted-out-of-court/

Thanxx for that; wonder what evere happened. Reading in, the BBs claimed they had taken 13-25 boxes of sound recordings. Thaty cpould be the Smile sessions right there...

If we're thinking about the same auction, I have a bunch of photos of the items from the auction site at that time, and while it's interesting there really wasn't anything that could be called a "blockbuster", unless your idea of a blockbuster is a baseball cap signed by the band.  :)

The most interesting things in that auction to my eyes - again, if it's the same one being mentioned - were songwriting forms/contracts and some handwritten band scores with full band arrangements. Those actually turned out to be a bust too, because I had assumed they were original from the recording sessions but instead they were for one of the 70's or 80's incarnations of the BB's touring band, and the arrangements were for that band rather than original studio scores.

I don't recall ever seeing tapes, audio or video, mentioned at that time, and I wouldn't think they'd store any kind of audiotape in a normal warehouse alongside paper archives and Mike's baseball hats anyway, since tapes need to be in a climate-controlled environment and even a band that hires a lawyer who shows up 15 minutes late to court would take those precautions with any valuable tapes.

Please forgive my ignorance, but what exactly is Surfs Up Pt 2 suppose to be?

Think I remember it being described on here as being some kind of horn (and possibly string) section with disconnected noises or something...

It could also not exist lol.