The Elements

[The Shift]

I think it's logical to assume, in the absence of any other released BBs' singles on SMiLE, that either Heroes or Vibes could each have kicked-off either one of the two sides, esp if you go with the 12-track-no-links theory.  Just seemed formula at the time to start at least one side on each LP with a single.

Surfin' Safari had S'S and Surfin'
Surfin' USA had S'USA
Surfer Girl had SG and In My Room (B-side)
Little Deuce Coupe had LDC and Shut Down (B side)
Fun Fun Fun had FFF and Why Do Fools Fall In Love (B-side)
All Sumer Long had I Get Around and Wendy (EP-track and non-US B-side)
Christmas had Little St Nick
Today had Do You Wanna Dance and Please Let Me Wonder (B-side)
Summer Days! had California Girls
Pet Sounds had God Only Knows and Wouldn't It Be Nice (double A-side)

A theory based on the commercial aspects of releases, of which BW had to be aware. But just a theory.

[buddhahat]

I think it's logical to assume, in the absence of any other released BBs' singles on SMiLE, that either Heroes or Vibes could each have kicked-off either one of the two sides, esp if you go with the 12-track-no-links theory.  Just seemed formula at the time to start at least one side on each LP with a single.

Surfin' Safari had S'S and Surfin'
Surfin' USA had S'USA
Surfer Girl had SG and In My Room (B-side)
Little Deuce Coupe had LDC and Shut Down (B side)
Fun Fun Fun had FFF and Why Do Fools Fall In Love (B-side)
All Sumer Long had I Get Around and Wendy (EP-track and non-US B-side)
Christmas had Little St Nick
Today had Do You Wanna Dance and Please Let Me Wonder (B-side)
Summer Days! had California Girls
Pet Sounds had God Only Knows and Wouldn't It Be Nice (double A-side)

A theory based on the commercial aspects of releases, of which BW had to be aware. But just a theory.

This is a good point and if we presume this to be the case, then either Heroes or Vibes was to follow Our Prayer as the lead track. My money's on GV as Heroes is in the wrong key to follow Our Prayer. This then shifts H&V to the start of side 2, with Surf's Up as the closer. Hell, we've almost sequenced the album by a simple process of elimination!

[Reverend Rock]

Yeah, there's no way that intro was meant for H&V.  I mean, it *KIND OF* works as a chase sequence (I stuck it after "You're under arrest!") but it's awkward as all get out.

That whistle intro was DEFINITELY part of Fire.

It was recorded during a H&V session and shares the same master no. 50745 as many other Heroes sections, so I see no reason to place it with Fire other than they sound like they belong together.

You need another reason? When Brian finished SMiLE in 2004, he put the bells and whistles intro before "Mrs. O'Leary's Cow". Isn't that enough to pursuade you? The creator, the author, the man who composed the piece put it there - and now it stands there for history....

You're kidding, right?  Brian and others (Van Dyke) repeatedly said that Smile 2004 was NOT an attempt to finish Smile as it would have been in 67.  It was the creation of a Smile "suite" using Smile era music for live performance - which, when it was completed and received rave reviews, became the BWPS album. 

And who put the "intro" before Fire?  That would be David Leaf, without Brian's input, for the projected 1988 Smile release put together with Mark Linett.  This was widely bootlegged, Darian (the "musical secretary" of Smile 2004 who worked with Brian on sequencing) was well aware of this version, and so . . . it became what it is on BWPS.  But to say because it was on BWPS it was meant to be that way on a 67 Smile just doesn't pass muster.  I guess Good Vibrations on Smile 67 would have had Tony Asher's lyrics included as well in place of Mike's?

Of course I was kidding, but I couldn't resist the opportunity to take a shot at BWPS.

But, why would I be kidding? Go with this for a minute...Brian's laying half asleep on an oversized sofa while Darian is feverishly playing him SMiLE tracks from a laptop. They come to the bells and whistles snippet. Now, that short piece of music has to be one of the most interesting things that Brian Wilson ever recorded. Of all the things that he would remember about SMiLE, that would be up there on the list. Now, if that piece wasn't the intro to "Mrs. O'Leary's Cow", I would think that Brian would "straighten out" the myth, and tell Darian where it belongs. If - if - the bells and whistles was an intro to "Heroes And Villains", or a part that might be to linked to "you're under arrest" or ANYTHING to do with "Heroes And Villains", Brian could SIMPLY tell Darian what he had in mind. Now, you have to admit, that wouldn't be too hard for Brian to do/remember. But, it ended up as the intro to "Mrs. O'Leary's Cow". Doesn't that mean anything? It should....

Well, Sheriff, I like the way you think...but I already knew that from the thread on SMiLE mixes...

Let me begin by saying that I have fully accepted BWPS as definitive...and whether we accept it as definitive or not, it inevitbably will become more and more definitive as time goes by.  It's such a great "fall and redemption" story that there's just no way it could be otherwise.  The finished SMiLE of 2004 is totally a part of popular music history, and it's not going to change.  When they put out that CD, they "nailed it in stone", and that's that.

That said, I think that indeed "Elements" is the great mystery we haven't solved of what SMiLE might have been in '67.  I really liked the "ragmajesty SMiLE" version of "Elements" which takes "Spanish Guitar Theme", "Water Chant", "Bag Of Tricks", "H&V Intro", and "Mrs. O'Leary's Cow", strings 'em together, and puts nature sounds from the Abbey Road Studio collection on top of 'em (along with the fire sounds that exist on one version of "Mrs. O'Leary's Cow" already).  That makes a pretty fine "Elements Suite".  But of course, it has nothing to back it up as being anything close to something Brian might have had in mind.

Finally, I just have one more comment.  I think "Heroes and Villains Intro" sounds great between "Our Prayer" and "Heroes and Villains", and if I can ever figure out the other "elements" of an LP-length SMiLE mix, that particular sequence will certainly be a part of it.

[Andrew G. Doe]

  I really liked the "ragmajesty SMiLE" version of "Elements" which takes "Spanish Guitar Theme", "Water Chant", "Bag Of Tricks", "H&V Intro", and "Mrs. O'Leary's Cow", strings 'em together, and puts nature sounds from the Abbey Road Studio collection on top of 'em (along with the fire sounds that exist on one version of "Mrs. O'Leary's Cow" already).  That makes a pretty fine "Elements Suite".  But of course, it has nothing to back it up as being anything close to something Brian might have had in mind.

Considering that the "Spanish Guitar Theme" has nothing to do with Smile and was recorded during the Friends sessions, I'd say less than nothing. 

[Reverend Rock]

 I really liked the "ragmajesty SMiLE" version of "Elements" which takes "Spanish Guitar Theme", "Water Chant", "Bag Of Tricks", "H&V Intro", and "Mrs. O'Leary's Cow", strings 'em together, and puts nature sounds from the Abbey Road Studio collection on top of 'em (along with the fire sounds that exist on one version of "Mrs. O'Leary's Cow" already).  That makes a pretty fine "Elements Suite".  But of course, it has nothing to back it up as being anything close to something Brian might have had in mind.

Considering that the "Spanish Guitar Theme" has nothing to do with Smile and was recorded during the Friends sessions, I'd say less than nothing.  

   I learn something new everyday!  Now I have to go back and take it out of both my SMiLE CD mixes...but then, oh what the hell...I like having it in there too much to bother!

[rasmus skotte]

Me too! (in my own video-edit and I only called it Doves Of Free because I wanted to mix it Sounds Of Free/Doves Of Peace and confused the titles)...

[Reverend Rock]

Me too! (in my own video-edit and I only called it Doves Of Free because I wanted to mix it Sounds Of Free/Doves Of Peace and confused the titles)...

OK, let me try to get some things straight now...

Are you saying that what I'm calling "Spanish Guitar Theme" is properly called "Doves of Peace"?

[rasmus skotte]

No - Doves of Peace. IF it's the same piece we're talking about(?)

[A Million Units In Jan!]

I didn't think it really had a 'proper' name at all....

[Reverend Rock]

...it gets so confusing sometimes...whatever it is and whenever it was recorded, it stays in my SMiLE CD mix...

[Andrew G. Doe]

No - Doves of Peace. IF it's the same piece we're talking about(?)

"Doves of Peace" = "Spanish Guitar Theme" = "New Song" (recorded 3/26/68).

[Mahalo]

Andrew, in your book you hint at the possibilty of Fall Breaks having some relation to the Earth element, possibly, but no one really knows. In your own opinion, what do you think, could Fall Breaks be closer to the Earth section than we may think? Just curious.

Too me it makes perfect sense. Mrs. O'Learies and Fall Breaks sharing the same theme/melody; and the different sessions of Da Da hint at the same theme/melody for air and water. One being airy (the one with the flutes playing like birds/ and the the splashing sounding of Da Da recorded the next day being watery. Thats just my own opinion. It simplifies the Elements into two themes, with two variations on each theme...

[Andrew G. Doe]

Andrew, in your book you hint at the possibilty of Fall Breaks having some relation to the Earth element, possibly, but no one really knows. In your own opinion, what do you think, could Fall Breaks be closer to the Earth section than we may think? Just curious.

Too me it makes perfect sense. Mrs. O'Learies and Fall Breaks sharing the same theme/melody; and the different sessions of Da Da hint at the same theme/melody for air and water. One being airy (the one with the flutes playing like birds/ and the the splashing sounding of Da Da recorded the next day being watery. Thats just my own opinion. It simplifies the Elements into two themes, with two variations on each theme...

From the first time I heard it, before I knew the first thing about Smile, "FB... ABTW" struck me as feeling 'earthy' - I once described it  as having the feeling of a dank wood in late fall (btw, it's astonishing in stereo !). Does the fact it's patently derived from "Fire" cause me any problems ? Nope - after all, the 'bicycle rider' theme is all over Smile. Maybe "Vega-Tables" was once the earth theme, before Brian spun it off as a separate song. My kingdom for a fully-functioning TARDIS !

And for the record, I still think "Country Air" has a lot of shared DNA with the Air theme from "The Elements".

[Mahalo]

Cool, thanx dude. 

[buddhahat]

And for the record, I still think "Country Air" has a lot of shared DNA with the Air theme from "The Elements".

I know you've discussed this before but what makes you think this? Did you ask somebody about it and they gave you a knowing wink or something?

[Andrew G. Doe]

And for the record, I still think "Country Air" has a lot of shared DNA with the Air theme from "The Elements".

I know you've discussed this before but what makes you think this? Did you ask somebody about it and they gave you a knowing wink or something?

Like this... ?

 

[Reverend Rock]

No - Doves of Peace. IF it's the same piece we're talking about(?)

"Doves of Peace" = "Spanish Guitar Theme" = "New Song" (recorded 3/26/68).

Thanks so much, Andrew.  Now, one more question, if you can indulge me...

Do we know for certain that it is a Brian Wilson composition, or is it one of the others'?

[Sheriff John Stone]

No - Doves of Peace. IF it's the same piece we're talking about(?)

"Doves of Peace" = "Spanish Guitar Theme" = "New Song" (recorded 3/26/68).

Thanks so much, Andrew.  Now, one more question, if you can indulge me...

Do we know for certain that it is a Brian Wilson composition, or is it one of the others'?

Interesting question; I always assumed it was a BW composition. I'd also like to know if it's a complete song/backing track. It's only 1:25 long, but so are some of Brian's other songs, and there are some short ones on Friends, too. AGD, for you to name your source, would you be jeopardizing confidentiality? For an issue/question like this?

[Andrew G. Doe]

No - Doves of Peace. IF it's the same piece we're talking about(?)

"Doves of Peace" = "Spanish Guitar Theme" = "New Song" (recorded 3/26/68).

Thanks so much, Andrew.  Now, one more question, if you can indulge me...

Do we know for certain that it is a Brian Wilson composition, or is it one of the others'?

Interesting question; I always assumed it was a BW composition. I'd also like to know if it's a complete song/backing track. It's only 1:25 long, but so are some of Brian's other songs, and there are some short ones on Friends, too. AGD, for you to name your source, would you be jeopardizing confidentiality? For an issue/question like this?

My source has been named here previously (not by me), so no problem - Alan Boyd.

It's just a track, on the same session tapes as "Even Steven". Who wrote it ? No idea... but have to say, doesn't sound like a BW composition.

[buddhahat]

No - Doves of Peace. IF it's the same piece we're talking about(?)

"Doves of Peace" = "Spanish Guitar Theme" = "New Song" (recorded 3/26/68).

Thanks so much, Andrew.  Now, one more question, if you can indulge me...

Do we know for certain that it is a Brian Wilson composition, or is it one of the others'?

Interesting question; I always assumed it was a BW composition. I'd also like to know if it's a complete song/backing track. It's only 1:25 long, but so are some of Brian's other songs, and there are some short ones on Friends, too. AGD, for you to name your source, would you be jeopardizing confidentiality? For an issue/question like this?

My source has been named here previously (not by me), so no problem - Alan Boyd.

It's just a track, on the same session tapes as "Even Steven". Who wrote it ? No idea... but have to say, doesn't sound like a BW composition.

I always thought this track was Indian Wisdom. What is Indian Wisdom then?

[buddhahat]

And for the record, I still think "Country Air" has a lot of shared DNA with the Air theme from "The Elements".

I know you've discussed this before but what makes you think this? Did you ask somebody about it and they gave you a knowing wink or something?

Like this... ?

 

Gah - Spill, spill!!!

I have to say, out of all the post Smile songs, the two that sound the most like they could be ex-smile to me are little pad and country air. The latter particularly sounds very similar in style to Dada. The rhythm of its verse (the mm, mm, mm bit)  and ascending notes also reminds me of the doing doing start to Cabinessence and also the dum dum section towards the end of Heroes Sections. Oh and Great Shape too! Actually you've got to wonder about its relationship to Great Shape as it shares the rhythm and lyrically/thematically is very similar.

I find it interesting that Cool water was mooted for Wild Honey, and that Do A Lot is also present. Proves if nothing else that WH was the album most likely to find Smile pieces resurfacing (besides smiley of course)

[A Million Units In Jan!]

No - Doves of Peace. IF it's the same piece we're talking about(?)

"Doves of Peace" = "Spanish Guitar Theme" = "New Song" (recorded 3/26/68).

Thanks so much, Andrew.  Now, one more question, if you can indulge me...

Do we know for certain that it is a Brian Wilson composition, or is it one of the others'?

Interesting question; I always assumed it was a BW composition. I'd also like to know if it's a complete song/backing track. It's only 1:25 long, but so are some of Brian's other songs, and there are some short ones on Friends, too. AGD, for you to name your source, would you be jeopardizing confidentiality? For an issue/question like this?

My source has been named here previously (not by me), so no problem - Alan Boyd.

It's just a track, on the same session tapes as "Even Steven". Who wrote it ? No idea... but have to say, doesn't sound like a BW composition.

I always thought this track was Indian Wisdom. What is Indian Wisdom then?

Indian Wisdom isn't a track. On the back of Smiley Smile there's an old indian proverb about 'the smile you send out returns to you'. That's Indian Wisdom, and sometime, probably in the late '70s 'Indian Wisdom' was a name people tossed around when talking about SMiLE tracks.

[buddhahat]

No - Doves of Peace. IF it's the same piece we're talking about(?)

"Doves of Peace" = "Spanish Guitar Theme" = "New Song" (recorded 3/26/68).

Thanks so much, Andrew.  Now, one more question, if you can indulge me...

Do we know for certain that it is a Brian Wilson composition, or is it one of the others'?

Interesting question; I always assumed it was a BW composition. I'd also like to know if it's a complete song/backing track. It's only 1:25 long, but so are some of Brian's other songs, and there are some short ones on Friends, too. AGD, for you to name your source, would you be jeopardizing confidentiality? For an issue/question like this?

My source has been named here previously (not by me), so no problem - Alan Boyd.

It's just a track, on the same session tapes as "Even Steven". Who wrote it ? No idea... but have to say, doesn't sound like a BW composition.

I always thought this track was Indian Wisdom. What is Indian Wisdom then?

Indian Wisdom isn't a track. On the back of Smiley Smile there's an old indian proverb about 'the smile you send out returns to you'. That's Indian Wisdom, and sometime, probably in the late '70s 'Indian Wisdom' was a name people tossed around when talking about SMiLE tracks.

many thanks for clearing that up!

[Bicyclerider]

My source has been named here previously (not by me), so no problem - Alan Boyd.

It's just a track, on the same session tapes as "Even Steven". Who wrote it ? No idea... but have to say, doesn't sound like a BW composition.

Recorded during Friends, Brian was involved in writing all the songs except . . . Dennis's (although he helped with Little Bird).  So if it wasn't Brian, I'd bet on Dennis.  It has a minimalist vibe not unlike Be Still.

[?]

No - Doves of Peace. IF it's the same piece we're talking about(?)

"Doves of Peace" = "Spanish Guitar Theme" = "New Song" (recorded 3/26/68).

Thanks so much, Andrew.  Now, one more question, if you can indulge me...

Do we know for certain that it is a Brian Wilson composition, or is it one of the others'?

Interesting question; I always assumed it was a BW composition. I'd also like to know if it's a complete song/backing track. It's only 1:25 long, but so are some of Brian's other songs, and there are some short ones on Friends, too. AGD, for you to name your source, would you be jeopardizing confidentiality? For an issue/question like this?

My source has been named here previously (not by me), so no problem - Alan Boyd.

It's just a track, on the same session tapes as "Even Steven". Who wrote it ? No idea... but have to say, doesn't sound like a BW composition.

I always thought this track was Indian Wisdom. What is Indian Wisdom then?

Indian Wisdom isn't a track. On the back of Smiley Smile there's an old indian proverb about 'the smile you send out returns to you'. That's Indian Wisdom, and sometime, probably in the late '70s 'Indian Wisdom' was a name people tossed around when talking about SMiLE tracks.

This is true, but is the Spanish Guitar piece being discussed here the same track that's been mislabeled Indian Wisdom on some boots?  I have to admit, sometimes I find myself lost when discussing some of these fragments, even when I'm sure I've heard them before.  Usually when it involves a "Tag to..." or "....Fade" reference.