The Smiley Smile Message Board

Here is my theory. I believe that the people around Brian are very protective of Brian who is probably unable to organize his own life. But of course believe that unlike Landy, the people around Brian care for him more than just making money. Mike, who also loves Brian is protective of him, is probably suspicious of the people around Brian, but unlike Landy has never said he wants to kill them. Which means he doesn't believe this situation is harming Brian the way Landy was. However, Mike probably believes Brian can control his own life and that Brian wanted to work with him one on one, but the people around him wouldn't allow it.

I don't claim to have inside knowledge. This is just an attempt to understand both sides. I believe both Mike and Melinda care for and are protective of Brian. Yet they are both suspicious of the other. This may seem obvious, but I'm sure there are those who are firmly on Brian's side or Mike's >cough< Andrew G Doe.

Brian and Melinda have been married for 21 years, and are raising a family. That's real life, that's the ultimate reality of the situation. People who put in the same universe of perspective Mike's desire to write songs in a room with Brian, and peg them not doing so to Brian being kept away to the point of suggesting he was being drugged and controlled - and that includes some of Mike's comments as recent as this past year - must have a warped sense of both perspective and reality. To put a man's marriage and family in the same area as a quack doctor who was disgraced out of his practice, and various "controllers" and "handlers" from conservators to bodyguards 30-40 years ago must not understand what a marriage and family is all about. Either that, or it's a case of denial mixed with selfishness.

Whatever the case, it makes no sense. 

Everybody I've talked to "around" Brian have been extremely pleasant and kind.  I've have seen absolutely no indication of anything not on the up and up. So when  I see things from Mike's "people" making stupid allegations, I just shake my head and consider the source.

Yes, but like I said, I don't think Mike believes it's as bad as Landy either. He said he wanted to kill Landy. I don't think he has ever said he wanted to kill Melinda. I'm not saying Mike is right on everything. He is just convinced that if Brian decided on his own, he would have worked with Mike one on one. I think Mike's often direct speech can be interpreted as insensitive. But could be a defense mechanism for his own feelings being hurt. I think his feelings were hurt in 1966 when Brian chose to work with other collaborators more. I think his feelings were hurt when he wasn't able to work with Brian one on one. But in defense of Melinda, I think she was being protective of Brian. Or it was Brian's decision to work that way.

I'm not saying Mike is right. But in trying to understand his view point, I can see how he could react this way. That in his mind, it would hurt to think Brian doesn't wish to collaborate with him, so he has convinced himself that it is others around Brian. Which I can understand his instinctive suspicion after Landy.  But I think he believes Brian is in a much better place than under Landy.

Mike has made comments making comparisons though.

He made comments a few months ago suggesting Brian was being kept drugged and was controlled. Published in an interview promoting either his tour or his upcoming book or both, I'll have to dig up the interview.

2016.

http://www.freep.com/story/entertainment/music/2016/08/17/mike-love-beach-boys-preview/88770362/ (http://www.freep.com/story/entertainment/music/2016/08/17/mike-love-beach-boys-preview/88770362/)

Quote:

>>>Despite outward appearances, Love said his relationship with Wilson would be fine if not for outside interference.

“Brian’s life is controlled completely," he said. "It has been since Gene Landy, and it still is. And he’s medicated. If he says something about Mike Love unsolicited, he’ll say things like, ‘He’s my favorite lyricist.’ If and when we do see each other, we revert back to childhood, which is great. So if it were just he and I, I don’t think there would be any problems. We would work through them. I know that for a fact. But that is not the way it is. So let’s just leave it at that.”<<<

August 2016 to be exact.

Yup.

This has to make you at least question some of the decisions made by people around Brian:

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,24521.0.html

My position on the people around Brian: I don't know them. I assume that like most people worth a certain amount of money, he has decisions being made with as well as for him--different levels of control for different things. I also assume as someone who has led the life he has led, he gets plenty of help with other aspects of life. Beyond that, how the f*** would I know? I'm sure the people around him are fine. Normal, considering the circumstances. And having much more opinion than that would just speculating. Luckily, they are mostly irrelevant to my life, since the thing about Brian Wilson I like is the music he makes, not who decides to autosign his autographs, lets him gain or lose a few pounds, or whether he can use the phone on Tuesdays before he brushes his teeth.

All of the Beach Boys individually (including Mike) and collectively (BRI) have had people around them (and also the BBs themselves) making bad decisions, non-decisions, etc.

Using an autopen to sign stuff is lamentable and disappointing. If those autopenned signatures were purposely sold to anyone as authentic, then that's an even bigger disappointment. I think the recent autopen book thing is a big clusterf**k, though it has nothing to do with supporting Brian when I say I think people are slightly jumping the gun on assuming in detail how that whole thing happened (e.g. did someone send an autopenned set of books to Premiere instead of somewhere else where they were intended? Maybe Brian's management were sending out comped copies to friends or business associates and were going to use an autopen on those?). Even having an autopen in the equation is silly and boneheaded, especially considering Brian *does* sign autographs, and apparently even some of the Premiere books are also legit autographs.

In any event, it's NOTHING like the criminal activities of Landy and his squad.

Bad/shitty/questionable management or even good management making boneheaded decision is not unique to Brian, and isn't a sign of some vast organizational abuse of Brian.

If the whole point of all of this is simply to point out that Brian has people around him helping him, often guiding things, making decisions, etc., then that's pretty much how any famous/wealthy/celebrity operates. Some are even more hands-off, some more hands-on.

The people around Brian seem to work  as appendages. They help him get stuff done. That is a far cry from having your life manipulated and controlled. I wish I had a posse like Brian. I would get far  more  done.  :lol

You are correct and Ray Lawlor's response is shedding some light on the situation. However, that only partially explains the current situation and not the past questionable signatures sold at the merch tables.

You and me both!

When it's not an autopen and is an allegation of someone else signing, it's a tough nut to crack. It's much more speculative and shaky to make accusations. It gets very circumstantial. Handwriting experts can weight in I suppose.

I bought a Brian autograph at a used CD shop for $8.99 a couple years ago (a wonky signed copy of the Gershwin album), and there was pretty polarized disagreement here as to whether it was legit or not.

But certainly I think there was some provocative circumstantial evidence concerning things like some of the C50 autographs. Which is why I think, especially among folks here who know all of these stories, I would tend to tell folks not to buy autographs not obtained in person, or obtained by someone you can trust (and/or has photos/video to prove the signature). Or, at least, don't pay extra for one. I got a Brian autograph with the PBS Soundstage Blu-ray set last year. I think it's actually legit, but I just wanted the Blu-ray and the signature was rather superfluous.

To be clear, I'm not saying someone should not be held accountable if they are faking autographs, regardless of how much of a caveat emptor attitude fans should be taking.

I agree to a certain extent. However, there is a huge difference between some random seller on eBay claiming dodgy looking Brian Wilson autographs are authentic, as opposed to buying directly from an official merch table (or in this case, a reputable seller of autographed books who work directly with publishers). It's a sad commentary on Brian's team, if you have to say caveat emptor to anything hand signed coming from his official channels (i.e. his merch table, online store, publisher, etc.).

It is sad. I'd have to go back and read old threads to determine how the specific allegation that Foskett was signing for Brian during C50 came up.

All I know is that at least *some* of the supposed "telltale" signs of a Foskett-signed Brian fake that people were throwing around were present in 100% in-person authenticated confirmed Brian autographs.

My best guess on C50 was that because they were apparently having the band members signs stuff *during* the tour as the tour went along (based on discussions I had with people at the merch table), if they were having Foskett sign, it was a bad decision motivated by bad time management in needing to get the merch ready to sell.

However, even then the pattern was odd. Brian was signing some autographs, and at some shows the merch table *wasn’t* selling specific signed group items because the band hadn’t had a chance to sign them yet.

If the Foskett-signing-for-Brian thing was/is true, then it was done in a very odd, sporadic, sometimes seemingly aribitrary fashion.

For reference, this is what people refer to as a "Foskett" Brian Wilson autograph:

(http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee92/mbriev16/BW%20JF%2001_zpsht4qwzao.jpg)

You will not find a single autograph expert authenticate this as a genuine Brian Wilson signature. The only similarities of the above signature to Brian's genuine signature is that they both used the letters B and W.

I have no reason to doubt that assertion. I guess I can't say with 100% certainty that there's zero chance Brian could have signed that. But I'm not going to hang on such a far-fetched technicality. I think there was plenty of compelling evidence on C50 merch (mainly the signed programs) that Brian's signature looked too clean and unfamiliar in some cases.

As I said, it's a puzzling, arbitrary pattern of having him sign some stuff and not others, and not seeming to have any huge pressure on them to ensure having signed stuff to sell (referring to stories during C50 where, when they didn't have signatures to sell, they just didn't sell them).

I quickly looked up the scenario I was referring to earlier, and someone suggested for instance that they had never seen Brian sign his last name with an uppercase "S" in "Wilson", yet I have an in-person autograph where he did just that.

Can you please post a link?

I have the same program as Marty with that same fake signature.

It really does seem as if the thing that burns Mike's ass more than anything else is that Brian doesn't want to write with him anymore. What I don't get is the assertion that this wound has been festering since Brian went to work with Tony Asher and Van Dyke Parks in 1966. By then, Brian had already struck up short-lived but basically exclusive (for a while) writing partnerships with Gary Usher and Roger Christian (I mean, Christian wasn't a "writing partner," but you know what I mean). How were Asher and Parks any different?

And then Brian went on to write a ton of songs with Mike during the '67-'70 period, almost as many as they had written during the '62-'65 period.

Mike needs to get some Preparation H...that is way too long for an ass burn.

If you're responding to my previous post, I'm not sure which link you're requesting. There are a few old threads here. I can try to dig up a link to a pic of my Brian autograph I was referring to. It's not particularly applicable to picking apart the C50 autographs, as the BW autograph I was talking about is a rather large signature on a larger poster. As I guessed back then in previous discussions, a super big Brian autograph will tend to have more detail. The debate over the "S" in Wilson is interesting because some BW autographs are indeed not much more than a B and W.

I have a C50 poster signed by all 5 (that I actually watched them sign, so I know Brian's signature is legit) and can tell you that Brian's signature on my poster looks nothing like the one posted above.  It's much more shaky and a lot smaller. 

I don't think anyone is particularly denying potential shenanigans with some of those C50 sigs.

For what it's worth, I've compared my 2015 BW signature sold via the PBS website on the Soundstage Blu-ray to another copy also sold through PBS, and they're different from each other and both seem to be pretty likely legit (rather shakey/spidery). Again, it's odd that they do *hundreds* if not *thousands* of legit autographs and then fakeys end up surfacing as well.

I also think a distinction should be made regarding the "people around Brian". There's a big difference between Melinda and some low level schlub either forging Brian's signature or using a stamp. Ultimately, yes, it does reflect poorly on the people at the top but I find it very difficult to believe that someone who's actually close to Brian is cranking out fake autographs.

It's very simple. Whoever is doing it should be shown the door immediately. "Autogate" should never be allowed to happen again.

I doubt it's someone low level.  It's not a large corporation.  There is a small team who work for Brian.  The money will go back to Brian's bank from a company such as Premiere Collections.  I wouldn't think some 'shady' person handed over some fake signed books and was paid cash for them.  If it's in Brian's organisation then it's likely to have been someone close.

Unless of course it was Premiere Collections who forged some of the signatures from the legit delivery they received.

What happened to all the inserts Ray witnessed Brian sign?  Someone must know who they were for.

I would be willing to bet it would be the latter.

check this out

http://live.autographmagazine.com/forum/topics/gifted-a-possible-fake-manning-autograph

Billy, I'm not sure what you are suggesting here. The link is above is a fake autograph on a jersey. Premiere Collectibles only deals in signed books. The link apparently highlights the fact that someone was trying to use their good reputation by issuing a COA using a variation on their name. I know the instinct is to protect Brian, but I would be shocked if this can't be traced to either the publisher or Brian's team. The fact that Premiere Collectibles apparently can't get a response tells me a lot.

I see what happens if I don't read the entire page! Would help if I had spelled "Collectibles" correctly too...

Not seeing a whole lot of info on them, apart from some complaints with the BBB about people not getting their books, dating back a few years.

Brian probably is medicated, he's got documented mental issues.  Don't know why anyone would be surprised by that assertion.

It's the inference that he's "overmedicated" or kept docile that's the issue.

The problem isn't the literal fact that Brian takes medication (as Brian has indicated by his own words).

Saying someone "is medicated" is different than saying "takes medication." It's a more loaded term, with usually quite different connotations.

"Brian is medicated" implies a passive sense of the word, as if someone is acting upon him. In the literal sense this is always true, as someone else has to prescribe medication.

But that passive phrasing, coupled with conflating Brian's time with Landy with his present situation, is the problem.

Mike isn't saying "Brian takes medication to deal with his issues." He says this:

“Brian’s life is controlled completely," he said. "It has been since Gene Landy, and it still is. And he’s medicated."

http://www.freep.com/story/entertainment/music/2016/08/17/mike-love-beach-boys-preview/88770362/

As in, Brian's life is controlled, Landy controlled it, and Brian's life still is (which implies in my opinion that the situation is analogous to Landy). He then adds that Brian is medicated. As if it's the next lamentable aspect of Brian's life, of Brian's being "controlled."

Mike's comment in that particular interview was not only out of line, it also showed a completely lack of understanding or familiarity with Brian's current *medical* situation, not to mention a lack of empathy.

And as usual, you explained it way better than I could have :D

You quoted mikeddonn. He said "Collections", maybe telephone typo. [Reply No.27]

Probably because (rightly or wrongly), a lot of people consider the work he did with Asher and VDP to be Brian's "best". It was considered to be real art. The stuff that Mike wrote with Brian a lot of times ends up getting pushed into the "chicks and cars" pile, and is looked at in an entirely different way. Mike probably is bothered by the fact that the work he did with Brian isn't held in the same kind of regard, as far as a lot of critics go (which seems to matter to Mike, quite a bit).

Yes, auto correct! Premiere Collectibles is what it should say.  :-D