Mike Says

[hypehat]

Doc, not bothering quoting that because MASSIVE SETLIST PHOTOS

Fair point. But our menial jobs are not the same as being a Beach Boy. My new job does mean f***-all to me. It's a job and it's my rent. It's got literally nothing to do with how I envisage myself as a human being. The same cannot be said for these people. If Mike views it solely as a job, well, shame on him. I don't think he does, but I think he's trying to have his cake and eat it.


Something else in Mike's favour to consider is that he himself is not 'the draw' of The Beach Boys. In a touring context, with promoters and the press, it's Brian. In Britain, 2011, Brian plays the RFH and a small tour, Mike plays a racecourse as a one-off - it's likely all he could get. Which must drive him fucking insane, because he works his arse off as a frontman. I sympathise with that. And maybe Mike's smaller ensembles vs. Brian's little orchestra play into the Brian/Mike fight. And yeah, the popular consensus of Beach Boys fandom is that Mike Love is Satan.

But he's 'kept the Beach Boys out there' to the extent where he's playing a racecourse and Brian's playing one of our most prestigious venues. What does that tell you?

[JohnMill]

I think we ought to be careful what we wish for, a show loaded with deep cuts might tickle we few but it might drive the reunion crowds into their couches at home. We also ought to be careful what we read into other peoples' quotes.

I would still like to see them do one or two of these shows before they "pack it in".  I mentioned a few weeks back to mixed reviews that it would be interesting if they would perform for example "Pet Sounds" in it's entirely to a smaller more intimate crowd and film it for posterity.  Probably a pipe dream but not a bad one nonetheless.

[KittyKat]

Royal Festival Hall holds 2,500 people.  That's not a large venue.  I don't know what other places Brian played in Britain.  Britain has been a good market for Brian Wilson.  In the States, it seems like Brian was playing the same cities and areas every time he toured and I'm not sure he's done as well in certain regions so he didn't play them too much.

Mike, on the other hand, has played all over the United States and since the United States defines the casual Beach Boys' fan I'm not sure it made a difference who he was playing with before the reunion and the publicity about who the members of the reunion band are.  Mike had very low overhead since they rented everything including the amps.  I read an online interview with Scott Totten, since I had not idea who he really was until this reunion tour, other than seeing his name as part of Mike's band.  Scott said he didn't like playing with rented amps since he likes control over the sound quality, but the budget was cheaper with renting amps in each city versus slogging the same equipment in a big rig.  I'm sure the current reunion  tour has its own amps, PA, lighting, props, video screens, and whatever.  That's a big budget.  I'm not sure the Beach Boys are the type of act that can sustain the kind of ticket sales to finance that once people no longer see the novelty of a 50th reunion.  I'm not sure how much interest there is in deep cuts other than in a few big cities or college towns and only in smaller halls, like when they played the Beacon in New York. 

[Wirestone]

I think we ought to be careful what we wish for, a show loaded with deep cuts might tickle we few but it might drive the reunion crowds into their couches at home. We also ought to be careful what we read into other peoples' quotes.

We're getting a show like that now. And it's going across better than well.

Times change.

[Wirestone]

Royal Festival Hall holds 2,500 people.  That's not a large venue.  I don't know what other places Brian played in Britain.  Britain has been a good market for Brian Wilson.  In the States, it seems like Brian was playing the same cities and areas every time he toured and I'm not sure he's done as well in certain regions so he didn't play them too much.

Mike, on the other hand, has played all over the United States and since the United States defines the casual Beach Boys' fan I'm not sure it made a difference who he was playing with before the reunion and the publicity about who the members of the reunion band are.  Mike had very low overhead since they rented everything including the amps.  I read an online interview with Scott Totten, since I had not idea who he really was until this reunion tour, other than seeing his name as part of Mike's band.  Scott said he didn't like playing with rented amps since he likes control over the sound quality, but the budget was cheaper with renting amps in each city versus slogging the same equipment in a big rig.  I'm sure the current reunion  tour has its own amps, PA, lighting, props, video screens, and whatever.  That's a big budget.  I'm not sure the Beach Boys are the type of act that can sustain the kind of ticket sales to finance that once people no longer see the novelty of a 50th reunion.  I'm not sure how much interest there is in deep cuts other than in a few big cities or college towns and only in smaller halls, like when they played the Beacon in New York.  

As I've said, I saw shows in Bangor (small market, casual fans) and Boston (big market, more die-hards). The deep cuts went across equally well in both places. Both were sellouts. And people love Brian like crazy.

I think this distinction between "casual" and "diehard" fan meant something when the audience was mainly boomers. But with successive generations, people like both the band and are aware of Brian's story within it. They don't see a difference -- and believe me, IJWMFTT got one of the biggest reactions at each show. IJWMFTT.

Brian is always going to be a smaller act simply because he's not quite as famous as the band he comes from. But to draw the conclusion from that that people aren't interested in seeing the Boys do a diverse and musically interesting show is faulty.

[hypehat]

Royal Festival Hall holds 2,500 people.  That's not a large venue.  I don't know what other places Brian played in Britain.  Britain has been a good market for Brian Wilson.  In the States, it seems like Brian was playing the same cities and areas every time he toured and I'm not sure he's done as well in certain regions so he didn't play them too much.

Mike, on the other hand, has played all over the United States and since the United States defines the casual Beach Boys' fan I'm not sure it made a difference who he was playing with before the reunion and the publicity about who the members of the reunion band are.  Mike had very low overhead since they rented everything including the amps.  I read an online interview with Scott Totten, since I had not idea who he really was until this reunion tour, other than seeing his name as part of Mike's band.  Scott said he didn't like playing with rented amps since he likes control over the sound quality, but the budget was cheaper with renting amps in each city versus slogging the same equipment in a big rig.  I'm sure the current reunion  tour has its own amps, PA, lighting, props, video screens, and whatever.  That's a big budget.  I'm not sure the Beach Boys are the type of act that can sustain the kind of ticket sales to finance that once people no longer see the novelty of a 50th reunion.  I'm not sure how much interest there is in deep cuts other than in a few big cities or college towns and only in smaller halls, like when they played the Beacon in New York. 

Literally every other big name rock band can do what Mike Love deems as really expensive. You think Bruce Springsteen rents his amps?

[drbeachboy]

Doc, not bothering quoting that because MASSIVE SETLIST PHOTOS

Fair point. But our menial jobs are not the same as being a Beach Boy. My new job does mean f***-all to me. It's a job and it's my rent. It's got literally nothing to do with how I envisage myself as a human being. The same cannot be said for these people. If Mike views it solely as a job, well, shame on him. I don't think he does, but I think he's trying to have his cake and eat it.


Something else in Mike's favour to consider is that he himself is not 'the draw' of The Beach Boys. In a touring context, with promoters and the press, it's Brian. In Britain, 2011, Brian plays the RFH and a small tour, Mike plays a racecourse as a one-off - it's likely all he could get. Which must drive him f***ing insane, because he works his arse off as a frontman. I sympathise with that. And maybe Mike's smaller ensembles vs. Brian's little orchestra play into the Brian/Mike fight. And yeah, the popular consensus of Beach Boys fandom is that Mike Love is Satan.

But he's 'kept the Beach Boys out there' to the extent where he's playing a racecourse and Brian's playing one of our most prestigious venues. What does that tell you?

Being a musical artist is Mike's job. He's lucky in the sense that he gets to do what he loves as a job. I guarantee you that anyone that makes music, also makes it to make a living. Can you imagine Brian greeting customers at Wal-Mart when he is off the road becuase he only made music for music's sake? Being a rock star is a business, big business.

[SMiLE Brian]

Royal Festival Hall holds 2,500 people.  That's not a large venue.  I don't know what other places Brian played in Britain.  Britain has been a good market for Brian Wilson.  In the States, it seems like Brian was playing the same cities and areas every time he toured and I'm not sure he's done as well in certain regions so he didn't play them too much.

Mike, on the other hand, has played all over the United States and since the United States defines the casual Beach Boys' fan I'm not sure it made a difference who he was playing with before the reunion and the publicity about who the members of the reunion band are.  Mike had very low overhead since they rented everything including the amps.  I read an online interview with Scott Totten, since I had not idea who he really was until this reunion tour, other than seeing his name as part of Mike's band.  Scott said he didn't like playing with rented amps since he likes control over the sound quality, but the budget was cheaper with renting amps in each city versus slogging the same equipment in a big rig.  I'm sure the current reunion  tour has its own amps, PA, lighting, props, video screens, and whatever.  That's a big budget.  I'm not sure the Beach Boys are the type of act that can sustain the kind of ticket sales to finance that once people no longer see the novelty of a 50th reunion.  I'm not sure how much interest there is in deep cuts other than in a few big cities or college towns and only in smaller halls, like when they played the Beacon in New York. 

Literally every other big name rock band can do what Mike Love deems as really expensive. You think Bruce Springsteen rents his amps?

I think it is ironic that Mike has toured so long as a BB, yet doesn't understand the legacy of the group at all as shown by his cheap stunts. His BBs-lite were quite good live though.

[hypehat]

Doc, not bothering quoting that because MASSIVE SETLIST PHOTOS

Fair point. But our menial jobs are not the same as being a Beach Boy. My new job does mean f***-all to me. It's a job and it's my rent. It's got literally nothing to do with how I envisage myself as a human being. The same cannot be said for these people. If Mike views it solely as a job, well, shame on him. I don't think he does, but I think he's trying to have his cake and eat it.


Something else in Mike's favour to consider is that he himself is not 'the draw' of The Beach Boys. In a touring context, with promoters and the press, it's Brian. In Britain, 2011, Brian plays the RFH and a small tour, Mike plays a racecourse as a one-off - it's likely all he could get. Which must drive him f***ing insane, because he works his arse off as a frontman. I sympathise with that. And maybe Mike's smaller ensembles vs. Brian's little orchestra play into the Brian/Mike fight. And yeah, the popular consensus of Beach Boys fandom is that Mike Love is Satan.

But he's 'kept the Beach Boys out there' to the extent where he's playing a racecourse and Brian's playing one of our most prestigious venues. What does that tell you?

Being a musical artist is Mike's job. He's lucky in the sense that he gets to do what he loves as a job. I guarantee you that anyone that makes music, also makes it to make a living. Can you imagine Brian greeting customers at Wal-Mart when he is off the road becuase he only made music for music's sake? Being a rock star is a business, big business.

Him and Mike also earn enough from those stupendous royalty cheques, mind. If Mike somehow isn't making enough money from them, he is probably being embezzled.

Kittykat, my point is not about capacity, it's that the Royal Festival Hall is an exceedingly prestigious venue in the heart of London, and a string of theatre dates.... and Mike plays a racecourse. And the last time I read that 'The United States defines the Beach Boys fan', The Real Beach Boy was joking.

[Autotune]

Before the C50 became a reality, one of the most popular objections for a reunion was: "the BBs -read Mike and Bruce- play every year in your town... What difference would this make to the public? Why would people wanna go?"

Well, aside from those naysayers being proved dead wrong, and not having acknowledged the mistake of their presumption, it's amazing that the discussion has turned to the exact opposite.

[KittyKat]

But would enough people (as in enough to sell out) want to go pay big ticket prices for the reunion line-up if they tour again after this year?  I'm not saying they wouldn't, but a 50th anniversary is special and it's also gotten a lot of publicty that subsequent tours would not get.  I don't think there are as many Beach Boys' fans as Bruce Springsteen fans or Bon Jovi fans or even Kiss fans.  With or without Brian Wilson and Al Jardine included in the line up.  Mike may now have a reduced or no audience for his shows without those guys and the big band on board, but the big line-up may not be self-sustaining.  Which would mean much more limited or no touring for any configuration of the Beach Boys.  Of course Bruce Springsteen can haul his own amps in huge big rigs.  The current Beach Boys reunion tour isn't even on the scale of a Bruce Springsteen tour.  Bruce has done big basketball arena tours in numerous cities for years now and still packs them in.  The Beach Boys reunion tour has only played a handful of dates that big and may never be able to sell those kind of venues again without the 50th anniversary hype.

[Wirestone]

But would enough people (as in enough to sell out) want to go pay big ticket prices for the reunion line-up if they tour again after this year?  I'm not saying they wouldn't, but a 50th anniversary is special and it's also gotten a lot of publicty that subsequent tours would not get.  I don't think there are as many Beach Boys' fans as Bruce Springsteen fans or Bon Jovi fans or even Kiss fans.  With or without Brian Wilson and Al Jardine included in the line up.  Mike may now have a reduced or no audience for his shows without those guys and the big band on board, but the big line-up may not be self-sustaining.  Which would mean much more limited or no touring for any configuration of the Beach Boys.  Of course Bruce Springsteen can haul his own amps in huge big rigs.  The current Beach Boys reunion tour isn't even on the scale of a Bruce Springsteen tour.  Bruce has done big basketball arena tours in numerous cities for years now and still packs them in.  The Beach Boys reunion tour has only played a handful of dates that big and may never be able to sell those kind of venues again without the 50th anniversary hype.

1.) The ticket prices are not that high. Really, they're not.

2.) Brian has managed to tour with a lineup that large (although not with all the principals and effects) for years.

3.) There hasn't been that much hype. Not that I've seen. I mean, it's a lot for the BBs, but not for most musical acts.

If the Beach Boys really wanted to tour in this way, with this lineup, it is an option available to them. They would have to make changes and sacrifices (not tour as much, most likely, record more frequently, do more promotion, in Mike's case take a bit less money), but it could be done.

If the 50th anniversary shows, etc., have shown anything, it is how much value is left in this brand. You have to treat the band as something valuable and classy to have people want to spend money and time on it. This tour is, and people are.

[drbeachboy]

Doc, not bothering quoting that because MASSIVE SETLIST PHOTOS

Fair point. But our menial jobs are not the same as being a Beach Boy. My new job does mean f***-all to me. It's a job and it's my rent. It's got literally nothing to do with how I envisage myself as a human being. The same cannot be said for these people. If Mike views it solely as a job, well, shame on him. I don't think he does, but I think he's trying to have his cake and eat it.


Something else in Mike's favour to consider is that he himself is not 'the draw' of The Beach Boys. In a touring context, with promoters and the press, it's Brian. In Britain, 2011, Brian plays the RFH and a small tour, Mike plays a racecourse as a one-off - it's likely all he could get. Which must drive him f***ing insane, because he works his arse off as a frontman. I sympathise with that. And maybe Mike's smaller ensembles vs. Brian's little orchestra play into the Brian/Mike fight. And yeah, the popular consensus of Beach Boys fandom is that Mike Love is Satan.

But he's 'kept the Beach Boys out there' to the extent where he's playing a racecourse and Brian's playing one of our most prestigious venues. What does that tell you?

Being a musical artist is Mike's job. He's lucky in the sense that he gets to do what he loves as a job. I guarantee you that anyone that makes music, also makes it to make a living. Can you imagine Brian greeting customers at Wal-Mart when he is off the road becuase he only made music for music's sake? Being a rock star is a business, big business.

Him and Mike also earn enough from those stupendous royalty cheques, mind. If Mike somehow isn't making enough money from them, he is probably being embezzled.

Kittykat, my point is not about capacity, it's that the Royal Festival Hall is an exceedingly prestigious venue in the heart of London, and a string of theatre dates.... and Mike plays a racecourse. And the last time I read that 'The United States defines the Beach Boys fan', The Real Beach Boy was joking.

That's my point. Everything is about business and money; composing, writing, publishing, recording and performing.

[SIP.FLAC]

[Chocolate Shake Man]

Doc, not bothering quoting that because MASSIVE SETLIST PHOTOS

Fair point. But our menial jobs are not the same as being a Beach Boy. My new job does mean f***-all to me. It's a job and it's my rent. It's got literally nothing to do with how I envisage myself as a human being. The same cannot be said for these people. If Mike views it solely as a job, well, shame on him. I don't think he does, but I think he's trying to have his cake and eat it.


Something else in Mike's favour to consider is that he himself is not 'the draw' of The Beach Boys. In a touring context, with promoters and the press, it's Brian. In Britain, 2011, Brian plays the RFH and a small tour, Mike plays a racecourse as a one-off - it's likely all he could get. Which must drive him f***ing insane, because he works his arse off as a frontman. I sympathise with that. And maybe Mike's smaller ensembles vs. Brian's little orchestra play into the Brian/Mike fight. And yeah, the popular consensus of Beach Boys fandom is that Mike Love is Satan.

But he's 'kept the Beach Boys out there' to the extent where he's playing a racecourse and Brian's playing one of our most prestigious venues. What does that tell you?

Being a musical artist is Mike's job. He's lucky in the sense that he gets to do what he loves as a job. I guarantee you that anyone that makes music, also makes it to make a living. Can you imagine Brian greeting customers at Wal-Mart when he is off the road becuase he only made music for music's sake? Being a rock star is a business, big business.

Him and Mike also earn enough from those stupendous royalty cheques, mind. If Mike somehow isn't making enough money from them, he is probably being embezzled.

Kittykat, my point is not about capacity, it's that the Royal Festival Hall is an exceedingly prestigious venue in the heart of London, and a string of theatre dates.... and Mike plays a racecourse. And the last time I read that 'The United States defines the Beach Boys fan', The Real Beach Boy was joking.

That's my point. Everything is about business and money; composing, writing, publishing, recording and performing.

It is if you want it to be. But it doesn't have to be.

[drbeachboy]

Doc, not bothering quoting that because MASSIVE SETLIST PHOTOS

Fair point. But our menial jobs are not the same as being a Beach Boy. My new job does mean f***-all to me. It's a job and it's my rent. It's got literally nothing to do with how I envisage myself as a human being. The same cannot be said for these people. If Mike views it solely as a job, well, shame on him. I don't think he does, but I think he's trying to have his cake and eat it.


Something else in Mike's favour to consider is that he himself is not 'the draw' of The Beach Boys. In a touring context, with promoters and the press, it's Brian. In Britain, 2011, Brian plays the RFH and a small tour, Mike plays a racecourse as a one-off - it's likely all he could get. Which must drive him f***ing insane, because he works his arse off as a frontman. I sympathise with that. And maybe Mike's smaller ensembles vs. Brian's little orchestra play into the Brian/Mike fight. And yeah, the popular consensus of Beach Boys fandom is that Mike Love is Satan.

But he's 'kept the Beach Boys out there' to the extent where he's playing a racecourse and Brian's playing one of our most prestigious venues. What does that tell you?

Being a musical artist is Mike's job. He's lucky in the sense that he gets to do what he loves as a job. I guarantee you that anyone that makes music, also makes it to make a living. Can you imagine Brian greeting customers at Wal-Mart when he is off the road becuase he only made music for music's sake? Being a rock star is a business, big business.

Him and Mike also earn enough from those stupendous royalty cheques, mind. If Mike somehow isn't making enough money from them, he is probably being embezzled.

Kittykat, my point is not about capacity, it's that the Royal Festival Hall is an exceedingly prestigious venue in the heart of London, and a string of theatre dates.... and Mike plays a racecourse. And the last time I read that 'The United States defines the Beach Boys fan', The Real Beach Boy was joking.

That's my point. Everything is about business and money; composing, writing, publishing, recording and performing.

It is if you want it to be. But it doesn't have to be.

No, you tell me. You have all the answers. Tell me who of all the major acts out there right now that don't make money from the things that I listed?

[Chocolate Shake Man]

Doc, not bothering quoting that because MASSIVE SETLIST PHOTOS

Fair point. But our menial jobs are not the same as being a Beach Boy. My new job does mean f***-all to me. It's a job and it's my rent. It's got literally nothing to do with how I envisage myself as a human being. The same cannot be said for these people. If Mike views it solely as a job, well, shame on him. I don't think he does, but I think he's trying to have his cake and eat it.


Something else in Mike's favour to consider is that he himself is not 'the draw' of The Beach Boys. In a touring context, with promoters and the press, it's Brian. In Britain, 2011, Brian plays the RFH and a small tour, Mike plays a racecourse as a one-off - it's likely all he could get. Which must drive him f***ing insane, because he works his arse off as a frontman. I sympathise with that. And maybe Mike's smaller ensembles vs. Brian's little orchestra play into the Brian/Mike fight. And yeah, the popular consensus of Beach Boys fandom is that Mike Love is Satan.

But he's 'kept the Beach Boys out there' to the extent where he's playing a racecourse and Brian's playing one of our most prestigious venues. What does that tell you?

Being a musical artist is Mike's job. He's lucky in the sense that he gets to do what he loves as a job. I guarantee you that anyone that makes music, also makes it to make a living. Can you imagine Brian greeting customers at Wal-Mart when he is off the road becuase he only made music for music's sake? Being a rock star is a business, big business.

Him and Mike also earn enough from those stupendous royalty cheques, mind. If Mike somehow isn't making enough money from them, he is probably being embezzled.

Kittykat, my point is not about capacity, it's that the Royal Festival Hall is an exceedingly prestigious venue in the heart of London, and a string of theatre dates.... and Mike plays a racecourse. And the last time I read that 'The United States defines the Beach Boys fan', The Real Beach Boy was joking.

That's my point. Everything is about business and money; composing, writing, publishing, recording and performing.

It is if you want it to be. But it doesn't have to be.

No, you tell me. You have all the answers. Tell me who of all the major acts out there right now that don't make money from the things that I listed?

Haha. Here we go again! I wasn't being hostile, I swear!

But I would say that obviously the "major acts" make money from the things you listed. Not everyone is a "major act", and not everyone wants to be one. In fact, I would say the overwhelming vast majority of artists couldn't care less about making money, or least wouldn't put it ahead of making the kind of art they want to make and you'll more than likely not hear of them with some lucky exceptions.

[Cam Mott]

I think we ought to be careful what we wish for, a show loaded with deep cuts might tickle we few but it might drive the reunion crowds into their couches at home. We also ought to be careful what we read into other peoples' quotes.

We're getting a show like that now. And it's going across better than well.

Times change.

But people now seem to be suggesting there should more than there are already, not more than there used to be.

[dirwuf]

..."Isn't It Time" appears locked as the album's next single; "We actually did a little bit of extra work on the bridge to make it more of a four-part (harmony) thing and changed the lyric a little bit as well," Love says.

Am I misunderstanding this? Is he saying that they've gone back and touched up the recording? I know they've made the change in concert but it sounds like Mike is saying they will release an alternate version as the single...

[drbeachboy]

Doc, not bothering quoting that because MASSIVE SETLIST PHOTOS

Fair point. But our menial jobs are not the same as being a Beach Boy. My new job does mean f***-all to me. It's a job and it's my rent. It's got literally nothing to do with how I envisage myself as a human being. The same cannot be said for these people. If Mike views it solely as a job, well, shame on him. I don't think he does, but I think he's trying to have his cake and eat it.


Something else in Mike's favour to consider is that he himself is not 'the draw' of The Beach Boys. In a touring context, with promoters and the press, it's Brian. In Britain, 2011, Brian plays the RFH and a small tour, Mike plays a racecourse as a one-off - it's likely all he could get. Which must drive him f***ing insane, because he works his arse off as a frontman. I sympathise with that. And maybe Mike's smaller ensembles vs. Brian's little orchestra play into the Brian/Mike fight. And yeah, the popular consensus of Beach Boys fandom is that Mike Love is Satan.

But he's 'kept the Beach Boys out there' to the extent where he's playing a racecourse and Brian's playing one of our most prestigious venues. What does that tell you?

Being a musical artist is Mike's job. He's lucky in the sense that he gets to do what he loves as a job. I guarantee you that anyone that makes music, also makes it to make a living. Can you imagine Brian greeting customers at Wal-Mart when he is off the road becuase he only made music for music's sake? Being a rock star is a business, big business.

Him and Mike also earn enough from those stupendous royalty cheques, mind. If Mike somehow isn't making enough money from them, he is probably being embezzled.

Kittykat, my point is not about capacity, it's that the Royal Festival Hall is an exceedingly prestigious venue in the heart of London, and a string of theatre dates.... and Mike plays a racecourse. And the last time I read that 'The United States defines the Beach Boys fan', The Real Beach Boy was joking.

That's my point. Everything is about business and money; composing, writing, publishing, recording and performing.

It is if you want it to be. But it doesn't have to be.

No, you tell me. You have all the answers. Tell me who of all the major acts out there right now that don't make money from the things that I listed?

Haha. Here we go again! I wasn't being hostile, I swear!

But I would say that obviously the "major acts" make money from the things you listed. Not everyone is a "major act", and not everyone wants to be one. In fact, I would say the overwhelming vast majority of artists couldn't care less about making money, or least wouldn't put it ahead of making the kind of art they want to make and you'll more than likely not hear of them with some lucky exceptions.

Well, all my posts were about The Beach Boys. I think we can agree that they are a major act. Lots of acts pay their dues, but most have to eat, and hope that their art makes money and that they can make a living from it.

[Chocolate Shake Man]

Doc, not bothering quoting that because MASSIVE SETLIST PHOTOS

Fair point. But our menial jobs are not the same as being a Beach Boy. My new job does mean f***-all to me. It's a job and it's my rent. It's got literally nothing to do with how I envisage myself as a human being. The same cannot be said for these people. If Mike views it solely as a job, well, shame on him. I don't think he does, but I think he's trying to have his cake and eat it.


Something else in Mike's favour to consider is that he himself is not 'the draw' of The Beach Boys. In a touring context, with promoters and the press, it's Brian. In Britain, 2011, Brian plays the RFH and a small tour, Mike plays a racecourse as a one-off - it's likely all he could get. Which must drive him f***ing insane, because he works his arse off as a frontman. I sympathise with that. And maybe Mike's smaller ensembles vs. Brian's little orchestra play into the Brian/Mike fight. And yeah, the popular consensus of Beach Boys fandom is that Mike Love is Satan.

But he's 'kept the Beach Boys out there' to the extent where he's playing a racecourse and Brian's playing one of our most prestigious venues. What does that tell you?

Being a musical artist is Mike's job. He's lucky in the sense that he gets to do what he loves as a job. I guarantee you that anyone that makes music, also makes it to make a living. Can you imagine Brian greeting customers at Wal-Mart when he is off the road becuase he only made music for music's sake? Being a rock star is a business, big business.

Him and Mike also earn enough from those stupendous royalty cheques, mind. If Mike somehow isn't making enough money from them, he is probably being embezzled.

Kittykat, my point is not about capacity, it's that the Royal Festival Hall is an exceedingly prestigious venue in the heart of London, and a string of theatre dates.... and Mike plays a racecourse. And the last time I read that 'The United States defines the Beach Boys fan', The Real Beach Boy was joking.

That's my point. Everything is about business and money; composing, writing, publishing, recording and performing.

It is if you want it to be. But it doesn't have to be.

No, you tell me. You have all the answers. Tell me who of all the major acts out there right now that don't make money from the things that I listed?

Haha. Here we go again! I wasn't being hostile, I swear!

But I would say that obviously the "major acts" make money from the things you listed. Not everyone is a "major act", and not everyone wants to be one. In fact, I would say the overwhelming vast majority of artists couldn't care less about making money, or least wouldn't put it ahead of making the kind of art they want to make and you'll more than likely not hear of them with some lucky exceptions.

Well, all my posts were about The Beach Boys. I think we can agree that they are a major act. Lots of acts pay their dues, but most have to eat, and hope that their art makes money and that they can make a living from it.

Hypehat's point though is that The Beach Boys are such a big act that they don't have to worry about still making money at this point. The only thing they have to worry about is spending too much of the money they already have. Otherwise, it's plain sailing! Look at George Harrison's career after, say, 1980. Was that a man really concerned about making a ton of money or just a guy who enjoyed making music and if he wrote enough songs, maybe releasing an album. Certainly everything was not about making money in that case.

[drbeachboy]

People here claim Brian runs at a loss on his tours. If he didn't have other income, I doubt that he could afford to do that very long. They have different lifestyles can we do. They make a lot of money by our standards, but it may not be as much as you think, considering the way they live. As for Mike, one way to make more income is to bring expenses down. His shows are lean and mean. This tour creates more revenue, but also more expenses.

[Chocolate Shake Man]

People here claim Brian runs at a loss on his tours. If he didn't have other income, I doubt that he could afford to do that very long.

Yes, that's my point. Your point is that "Everything is about business and money; composing, writing, publishing, recording and performing." Well, clearly, if Brian's tours are running on a loss (and, to be honest, I don't know that they are) then it has nothing to do with "business" or "money" - that would be bad business. Now if your point is simply that people can't do things without money, well, that's just transparent. That's why some artists who are uninterested in having money be the end-goal of creativity work multiple jobs. But to say that "Everything is about business and money" is false and certainly doesn't have to be true for The Beach Boys at this point in time. Hell, it's not true for The Beatles, and I'm sure they're doing just fine.

They have different lifestyles can we do. They make a lot of money by our standards, but it may not be as much as you think, considering the way they live.

They're not gazelles - it's not as if their extravagant lifestyle constitutes a natural habitat.

[Kamandi]

In the final analysis Mike knows he can sell out the Hollywood Bowl with Brian, Al and Dave or draw a "decent crowd" with Bruce at the Tick Tock Inn.

[donald]

gotta point out that Mike, Bruce, Scotty, and John Cowsill are VERY MUCH a part of the CURRENT touring band.