The Smiley Smile Message Board

Let um rip.

Meh.  There, I said it.

It's very good. Very, very good. I'd go so far as to say majestic.

(bettin you heard it a long time ago, where we are just now hearing it)

Time does not diminish. Sounds just as killer now as it did back then.

 :) :) :)

I'm in the US, so spotify won't work. I haven't ordered the set yet because of the price, and the torrent link I just tried to download nearly fried my computer. This is like cruel, evil joke.  :ahh

Well, for what it's worth, there's no torrent or illegal release at the moment. If you go searching for torrents or downloads via Google, you'll just run into shady stuff.

Stick to PirateBay for torrents or Exystence for uploads. If this box hits the web anytime soon for us pirates, it will end up on those places as well, both of which are trustworthy.

OK-I've given this three listens now and it just gets better

When something is hyped up as much as this track has been over the years, there's always going to be a level of trepidation of how good it will be.

Personally, I think it's fantastic and to think of this along side Surf's Up and 'Til I Die, well, we may have had a slightly different story on our hands.

 :bow Dennis Wilson

Wonderful record.

Some parts are very similar to "Cuddle Up", aren't they?

I am of the opinion that it's not completely finished (and I'm not talking about the guitar solo - I think that's perfect). I have a feeling there would have been at least one more sweetening session for the vocals. I can't hear Al on this at all (and I recall he didn't know about this track when he was asked during C50), and the backing vocals (while incredibly cool because you get to hear Carl and Brian so clearly) are a bit sparse for something that would have actually been released on an album. Dennis' phrasing is very cool, I have a greater understanding of the way he wanted the listener to comprehend the soul of the song just based on the way he's singing it, vs. the Adam Marsland version.

It's good. It's not great. But I'm one hard-to-convince mofo where it comes to Dennis's stuff. And it does sound awfully like Barbara and Cuddle Up in parts, like a lot of Dennis's tunes from around this time.

But boy, do I love, love, love My Love Lives On on Disc 6. Now THAT'S A DENNIS song. One to melt the heart of even this DW sceptic!

WIBNTLA is a very nice song and it is very much in the Cuddle Up stylee. I can understand why Dennis wanted it to be an album closer as that is where it would really fit on an album. For me it is a bit overwrought though.

Stuff like Where Is She? always interests me more to be honest, but I've always been a hardline Brianista. Still it's a fine song, would have fit right in on Surf's Up

Yes, there's a chord change or two that definitely remind me of Barbara and Cuddle Up, but the emotions and the production are very different.

It couldn't stand up to the hype upon first listen (what could have?) but after that the song still continues to grow on me. The vocal is fine, yes, but I wasn't blown away by it. Honestly, now I just love the song. Great production, it's not just piano, strings and horns like Cuddle Up and Make it Good, which is a nice change of pace and differentiates it from Dennis' other productions. It's a bit triumphant and defiant, and powerful. It's just great to discover something entirely new by the band after countless hours of listening to them already.

Also, the flute jam at the end sounds just like the Grateful Dead. I was shocked. I like it. The Boys have so many surprises up their sleeves...

Gosh Darn it, how are you guys hearing WIBNTLA, before the box is scheduled for release?!?  >:(

Favors of a dubious nature to the first one who puts it up on YouTube.  ;D

Edit-Deleted!

Sorry guys-didn't think!

It is released today. ;)




Probably not a good idea. ;)

Yeah, probably...

Oh well too late!

Well Dennis sings the hell out of it, quite beautifully and I love the build up throughtout the second verse/chorus..... then it just kind of peters out. Any Dennis on Surf's Up would have been welcome but this falls a fair distance short of being worthy to close the album over the title track.

That's about how I feel as well. Sound of Free is still the one Dennis song from this era I wish would have been on the album. I need to listen to WIBNTLA more still, but I don't know if I like it more than either Sound of Free or California Slide honestly

I'd say it live up to the hype, honestly. Any song that makes me break into tears is special. It's a travesty that it wasn't released back in the day.

I love it. First listen was weird, trying to work out the hype and the song. After 5 listens, I can say I think it's a fantastic song that does not disappoint. I sent it to a fellow music fan who's not a big Beach Boys fan (loves Pet Sounds and the early hits, that's it) and got his opinion as well, and we loved it. So great this is out. It's like a gift from the dead.

I'd say Sound of Free is his best tune from this era followed by 4th of July. I just played WIBNTLA again and noticed the verses sound quite similar to The Beatles Fool On The Hill!

Despite my only moderate gushing of the tune I do not feel the slightest bit let down in finally hearing it; I realised a long time ago that there is nothing on this earth that can live up to the hype this song has had put on it.

It's strange to hear a song you know but have never heard before (having heard Adam's and Alan's version). I was of the firm opinion to reorder Surf's Up with this as the conclusion... but now actually hearing it, I am not so sure. It's definitely among Dennis' best work, but coming on the heels of A Day in the Life of a Tree and 'Til I Die I'm not sure does it justice.

Still, the hype about Dennis' vocal was more than just hype. You can tell he really worked hard on it. Spot on. Love it.

Agreed, it's a perfectly lovely song

Let me guess what is about to happen. The few dissenters, those who dare to say they don't know what all the fuss was about, are about to be labelled whiners, or haters. Their hackles suitably up, they will retaliate, and the latest set of rows will begin.  :lol

Well let me add my voice to those dissenters.

I think it's .........alright. Good points. I Like the instrumentation at the beginning, and as usual for this period, Dennis's voice sounds wonderful. The song itself though. Really not brilliant by Dennis's standards. Much prefer the chord pattern in songs like Barbara, or 4th Of July. Melody rather uninspired.  VERY glad I didn't swap any CD's for that guy's 30 sec sample.

Certain amount of disappointment? Yes. I'd probably like it a lot more if it hadn't been so hyped up. This track ending the Surfs Up LP? No thanks.

Really nice and pretty song. I kinda like Adam's arrangement better though  :lol

Yeah there some things Evie did which I think added more to the song and I was missing them in Dennis' delivery.

Perfect! As Good as I imagined.

I've taken the link down-sorry again!

Oh. My. God.  It was everything Andrew said, and more. Quite possibly the best vocal performance Dennis gave in his life. The version Evie Sands did was incredible(I caved and listened to the song a few weeks ago), but the original is just...other worldly. That build up to the "Who ever said..." verses, the backing vocals and the flute(or was it a keyboard?) during the solo...and those high notes on *I* know I/you can cry! Then those awesome Brian and Carl vocals at the end! Simply magical. Magic is probably the best word to describe it. I'm pretty sure that this is the kind of music you hear in Heaven.

My God, to have heard this in the control room as it was being recorded.  :thud

Now here comes the fun part - revising the Surf's Up album to accommodate the 3 missing Dennis songs.

WIBNTLA feels like a natural A-Side closer to me

I was JUST gonna post this.

Yup. Me too. I can't believe I am saying that after advocating it album close for so long.

It simply adds to the weirdness of the Beach Boys' career and story that a gem like WIBNTLA remained unreleased for so long. Great track.

Wow. Haha. Wow....
Everything is better than expected! THAT ENDING IS A JAM!!!
The vocal.... some parts are INCREDIBLE while some parts are just alright.
Brian and Carl are there!!! That's always fantastic!!!
IT ROCKS HARDER TOO!!! ESPECIALLY COMPARED TO THE AMCB VERSION!!!!

I love the "music box" sound!!! Man.... this is fantastic.... more than expected, very very good!

1:19
Listen to this... seriously... okay.... if that doesn't give you a classic Beach Boys "Woodie" than damn... you're stronger than me!

True but then 4th of July has side closer written all over it too. Decisions, decisions.

Better leave 'em both off the album then, just to be sure, and lazily rewrite a 50s tune instead. :-D

Excellent idea!

You know what? A song like this is almost to good for the Surf's Up album.  :lol

They can release Student Demonstration Time, but put something like WIBNTLA back in the vaults? I'm sorry, but The Beach Boys are possibly the most clueless band in history. It just had to be said.  ;D

Damn, this is awesome! I can totally hear this being on Surf's Up.

That said, I can see why some people might not be impressed. Lyrically it doesn't stand up to "Forever", for instance.

But if you just let the music take you away...

Amazing production.

It feels like it's lacking something, the outro doesn't really work, I wish the mix emphasized the moog a big more, etc. But still, it is a rock solid track.

Well, that was fabulous.  I'd never heard the Adam Marsland version, though I knew Alan's version.  Dennis' one was much less raw and overly emotional than I had expected.  It kinda chamber-poppy, even.  Felt more like Dierdre than Cuddle Up.

Perfect music as far as my ears go.

Ok, here's to my ears how the 1971 Surf's Up album should have been. The addition of the 3 missing Dennis songs and the subtraction of 'the feet song' turn it from a flawed masterpiece into THE masterpiece of their careers for me.
I tried to jumble stuff around a bit more but couldn't for the life of me figure out how to split the final 3 Brian songs up in a way that worked. Also after hearing WIBNTLA for the 5th or 6th time I feel it could have quietly ended at the 3:46 min mark without losing any impact, it also then flows well into Lookin' At Tomorrow.

PS, anyone who complains about STD being included will be pistol whipped.

Dont Go Near the Water
Long promised road
Lady
Disney Girls
Student Demonstration Time
4th of July

Feel Flows
WIBNTLA (with a tasteful fade at the 3:45-3:47 minute mark)
Lookin' At Tomorrow
A Day in the Life of a Tree
'Till I Die
Surf's Up

I actually like to include the live version of Riot from the Big Sur Folk Festival instead of SDT

Said it many years ago upon first listen, and I'll say it again today...this is the best Dennis lead vocal of his career. Solid proof the dude could sing his ass off...and in a distinctly textured way that no one else in the band could duplicate. The song is good enough to be a great showcase for this vocal, but i wish he'd had more leads while his voice was so strong. 1970 - 71 is the peak period for him vocally, so nice we have another example.

I heard WIBNTLA, many years ago, at Alan Boyd's place. Dennis is awesome.

This is incredibly frustrating and I don't want to hear it illegally.

A smiley smile break is needed till I get my box set  :-\

One of us. One of us. One of us.

 ;D Man up, Shady - you can hang in there - i am in the same boat with you  ;)

my box set is still 4 days away  :'(

(gnashes teeth) (pulls hair)

How is it that the USA lags behind in distribution?  aieeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

'MURICA! f*** YEAH!

I'm not sure when I'll be able to afford the box set, so I went ahead and listened to it.

Would've been great on Surf's Up LP. Not quite up to the hype, but still very, very good. It's truly amazing a song this good has been in the vaults for 40 years. Most bands would've made a career on a song like this, and for our boys, it's gone unheard for all this time. Crazy.

Relieved to finally hear it.

That was absolutely fucking incredible. Goosebumps, tears, the lot. Bless you Dennis Wilson and bless whoever was responsible for finally getting this song released.

Hi Paulos!! Good to see you here! Glad you like the track.

With all the hype over the years, it is tough for anything to stand up to the expectations set for this song... but WIBNTLA is quite beautiful and would have been a perfect end to the first side of Surfs Up.

I love the doubled Moog bass and Fender bass, much like in other songs on this album - and the flutes seem to quote the arrangement of "Feel Flows." The overall unique, murky Surfs Up production is so cool to hear once again so many years later.

Does anyone know why there are clicks and pops on the song - was it sourced from an acetate? And if so, how did they plan on making the 5.1 version for the Surfs Up DVD-Audio?

What a shame that this didn't make it onto the album!

There has been so much hype about this song, but I see why.  The very first listen honestly brought tears to my eyes.  It's kind of hard to explain until you actualy hear the song.  Dennis captures so much emotion in this piece.  It's brilliant!!

I'm not sure where I got this tip, but I think '4th of July' was supposed to segue into 'Long Promised Road'? In fact, if you merge the end of 'Don't Go Near the Water' to '4th of July' to 'Long Promised Road', it sounds like it was supposed to be! You notice that '4th of July' fades in and out kind of strangely, I always thought it might have been spliced out of an early version or something.

I think it would have gone something like this:

1 Don't Go Near the Water
2 4th of July
3 Long Promised Road
4 Take a Load Off Your Feet
5 Disney Girls
6 Student Demonstration TIme

7 Feel Flows
8 Lookin At Tomorrow
9 A Day in the Life of a Tree
10 Surf's Up
11 Till I Die
12 Wouldn't It Be Nice to Live Again

After listening to this for the 14th time or so ( :lol) I think what I love best about this is Dennis' soul singing and being totally just balls out at moments. Definitely Dennis' best pre-POB work. What surprised me most was that Dennis seemed to be looking forward than back in how he approached the production of this song. I hear more similarities to POB than, say, Forever. It far more dynamic and interesting than his previous attempts. POB in embryo, if you will.

No, they've got the 16 track, and certainly no clicks and pops on the various mixes I've heard.

This might well be Dennis Wilson's finest hour as a member of the Beach Boys.

How anyone can underrated this is beyond me.

Very moving song.  Happy it is now available.
Dennis sure had the gift.
I never thought SMiLE would come out almost a decade before this track did.

I've just mentally ran the songs through my head and I think you could be onto something.

Are you talking about the weird tone the very first second of LPR?

For me, the song even exceeded it's expectations.  I'd like to hear the guitar a bit hotter in the mix during the instrumental break, but that's no biggie.  And yes, there are a few minor clicks & pops in there.  The "noodling" at the end is awesome.  These are exciting times!

The opening chord of LPR blends very nicely with the flute fadeout of 4th of July.

Hmmm. Well I hope soniclovenoize tackled Surf's Up/Landlocked for his "Albums that never were" blog. I would love to hear him try to join those two tracks the way DonnyL described.

So, what is now the best remaining track to not have had an official release (or any release)?

I reckon Carry Me Home is now the one I hear about most that is not on any official release.

........and 'Big Sur'.   And 'I've Got A Friend'.

WIBNTLA was worth the wait and definitely lives up to the hype. No doubt that Denny is other genius of the Beach Boys.

Looking Down The Coast
Glow, Cresent Glow
Big Sur (4/4)
We've Got Love (if you discount the early wrong pressings!)
Viggie

It's kind of scary that most of these have M.Love in the songwriting credits!

There's certainly a startling amount of stuff still in the vaults...

Carry Me Home
That Special Feeling
Glow Crescent Glow
Oh Lord
Out in the Country etc.

Just heard the track.

I was moved nearly to tears. The song finally made sense to me. I was rather unimpressed with the Adam Marsland version, but here...holy sh*t. Dennis' best vocal BY FAR, and easily the best song he wrote. Wow. Fucking righteous. Amazing.

Is "Sea Cruise" (15 BOs outtake), which was originally released on "Ten Years of Harmony", available today?  I can't find it for purchase.

Unless you find a copy of Ten Years of Harmony on vinyl or CD, it's on one of the Dumb Angel Rarities discs (I think disc 3).

Going on the internal evidence that Donny has just provided, I'd suspect that you'd have a Surf's Up track sequence like this (immediately prior to Dennis's withdrawal of his tracks):

Don't Go Near the Water
4th of July
Long Promised Road
Take a Load Off Your Feet
Disney Girls
(Wouldn't It Be Nice) To Live Again

Feel Flows
Lookin' At Tomorrow
Day in the Life of a Tree
Til I Die
Surf's Up

That would be where it was once "Surf's Up" was added to the lineup. Now it might have been that WIBNTLA was the closer for side two before that, and SDT was lurking around waiting for a slot, which opened up when "Surf's Up "bumped WIBNTLA out of its original perch.

I also think it's likely that "Carry Me Home" was viewed as pushing the social commentary too far by various folks, and would have been taken out of the running relatively early. It would be interesting to surmise the various shifting factions that got behind certain of the songs and how Jack Reiley tried to "keep the peace."

It would be one of those highly ironic moments in BB lore if Dennis had convinced Brian to put "Surf's Up" on the LP, only to find out that the decision was to put it at the end of side two to form a "Brian suite," thus bumping WIBNTLA from where he'd thought it rightfully belonged.

Alas, we'll probably never be privy to the exact blow-by-blow on all this. Needless to say, its revelation would be extremely interesting. Jon Stebbins, do you have any sense of what might have gone down? Is it possible that Barbara was privy to whatever happened? The timing of Dennis's hand injury and the release of the LP are pretty close, IIRC.

At least we finally have WIBNTLA.

Is Everybody Wants to Live out there? Because that's good

To be honest, I think you could just add the tune right after the title track on Surf's Up and the album would still be great, maybe even better.

It's been booted for years.

Stevie.

By the way, is a mellotron the instrument that sounds in the begining of the song? (it reminds me a little bit the intro of "Strawberry Fields Forever".

Best remaining track to have official release though. That's a classic as far as I'm concerned and I'm not sure it has been officially released has it?

Doesn't sound like a mellotron; sounds like a celesta with Charles Lloyd on flute playing simultaneously.

Not yet...it'd be nice, though.

Surely this came later...

The lyrics are shocking on this one though. That might have held it back.

Just goes to show you how much great stuff is still out there. Next boxset I guess though.

Carry Me Home is a Holland outtake.

I have it, I think.  Just wonder why it isn't available.

Can't wait to hear this and I know I'll love it! Big fan of the man's songs on CATP and I expect this to be even better.

Right, my bad for not looking at Andrew's list prior to posting. I think the same issues applied to it, of course, when it came to its potential inclusion on Holland.

I guess there was no real point in reissuing the compilation after BRI regained control of the 1970-85 stuff, and the better moments were reissued on the Good Vibrations box set. Sea Cruise should find a home on a future rarities set.

Time to ask a ridiculous question that will undoubtedly result in a fight between two or three of our more combustible members... on a hypothetical Surf's Up that included WIBNTLA, what would you choose as the top three songs?

I haven't decided yet, but the list includes..

- Til I Die
- Surf's Up
- Long Promised Road
- Wouldn't it be Nice to Live Again

Plus

- Disney Girls (Honorable mention)
- Feel Flows (Honorable mention)

I think a hypothetical Surf's Up that included WIBNTLA and discarded "Student Demonstration Time" would be very close to a perfect (perfectly flawed) album, in a much different sense than the (perfectly perfect) Sunflower.

The grimy, gritty cover (a previous poster mentioned the inky blackness) and the preponderance of songs like "Til I Die," WIBNTLA, "Day in the life of a tree," and "Long Promised Road" would, somewhat paradoxically, cause "Take a Load off Your Feet" to fit the album better, as a light-hearted track to leaven the proceedings.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jinTmcYwAdQ
here!

Still the same for me as it always was;

Surf's Up
'Till I Die
Disney Girls

As good as WIBNTLA is, I don't think it's that good.

Very good song made great by the vocal and the arrangement/production. I'd rate it just below 'Surf's Up' and 'Til I Die' and ahead of 'Feel Flows'. Great lost (until now) classic.

 I DO

In 1972, The Doors released Full Circle, which was their second and last album recorded after the death of Jim Morrison. There is a song on that album, "The Piano Bird", which has a very similar instrumental fadeout as on "Wouldn't It Be Nice To Live Again". The fadeout on "The Piano Bird" is dominated by Charles Lloyd on flute. I'm assuming Charles played the flute on the Surf's Up album sessions. I just thought it was interesting and wanted to mention it.

It certainly holds up to multiple listens doesn't it?

The song as presented on the 1993 box was comped from three separate tapes:

- the instrumental track...

- Carl's work vocal...

- a safety copy of the flute coda.

Also, remember that "Live Again" & "4thoJ" didn't make it to Surf's Up because Carl & Dennis butted heads over the sequencing and Denny pitched a hissyfit and pulled his tracks from the album.

Given that "CMH" wasn't recorded until after Surf's Up was released, I'd venture it was never in the running for inclusion.  ;D

What a perfect magical song.
Wow.

I disagree with any that say this is short of a masterpiece. Til I Die (and maybe Long Promised Road) is the only other thing from those sessions in the same category.

I think many of us hear would die to know what Carl's suggested sequence was and what Dennis' suggested sequence was. I am surprised this has never really been categorically stated (at least not to my very limited knowledge).

Heard it on Youtube. Utterly amazing. 'Baby Blue' is still my favorite Dennis song, but this might be second or third. I dunno if I like it as much as 'Forever' but man....frickin' spectacular. That man could sing, don't let anyone tell you different.

Not getting the negativity toward the tag. It was made to seem like aimless noodling after the song was actually finishedm by earlier reports, but holy jeez, I really like it and wished it didn't fade so early. You just start to get into where it's headed when it starts to fade. I'm not normally into this sort of thing, but it's perfect, as is the supposedly incomplete "guitar solo" section. Perfect as is, all of it.

The song as a whole is really great. I don't understand how it took this long to release a song this good. I'll also say that I've been tired of the hype for maybe a couple years now and, as childish as it is, I was tired of hearing about it by this point. It's so darn good, though. I won't babble on about my experience too much, but I did manage to hold off a few hours, as I'm out of town right now on a (coincidental!) trip to the shore. Very lucky to have Wi-Fi access where I am, it wasn't expected.

Anyway, took a walk, stood in the ocean, looked out and listened to a few songs from MIC, including this one five times. First two listens were waves of goosebumps, third brought a bit of teh choked-up-ness (if only because of a few particular lines which hit close to home for me right now and omg no-longer-living guy does beautiful things). Again, I don't want to babble on for the sake of seeming like an over-dramatic dipshit, but it was a very, very nice experience.

Thanks, Denny.

The tag is like...my favorite part  :lol

Also, insidery folks, how much more of the tag is there before it kind of seems like the folks had stopped trying to play the part seriously? Is Dennis' intention for this section really known?

Also, while I love the song, I have to say I can't really place it on the Surf's Up album. Maybe it's the fact that the mix is more modern and clean where as the Surf's Up album has a slight layer of murk over it, but it just doesn't seem to fit anywhere, to me. Carl And The Passions or Holland seem much more fitting, for various reasons. Either way, again, I'm baffled as to how Dennis did not insist on its release on a later album, especially POB where he had no one to answer to but himself, and further baffled as to how such a great and important piece of the Beach Boys catalog remained shelved for frigging forty-two years.

I haven't heard it... but the title doesn't even seem that promising. Seems rather forced.

Has the rough mix 'people in the know' have heard got the autotune and classic rock lead guitar on it?

Fun fact: I just found the song on tumblr, and went to view it from the beach boys tag onto the blog, and as soon as it loaded, out comes out "Wouldn't it Be Nice". From Pet Sounds. Thinking I've been gipped, I throw down my headphones in disgust and realize that the song has not been started. However, spotify was open, and had started playing "Wouldn't It Be Nice" at that EXACT moment. Freaky.

As for the song itself: It's nice. Very good. I wouldn't call it Dennis' magnum opus (much of POB outstrips it in my opinion, as well as Carry Me Home) but this is easily one of the best combinations of his earlier rocking material like Slip On Through with his heartfelt ballads like Barbara. My favorite bit was the tag, I'm almost curious to hear what that extra noodling would sound like.  :lol

If I was a more vindictive man, I'd find the c**t who mixed this, and flush his sorry head down the toilet.

Don't hear any of the first, but the "repeating figure" guitar part has always been talked about as part of the original recording.

That will be on the next box set  ::)

This is one of the crowning glories of the Beach Boys canon IMO. The level of emotionality, triumphant yearning, and mystical, transcendent joy on display in this vocal, arrangement, production and overall concept elevate it to another level entirely. The melancholia in much of his work is here transfigured into a clarion call for the beauty of love and a celebration of the sensitivity of the human spirit. MAGNIFICENT!

That would be Mark Linett. Nice guy. Care to elaborate?

Just heard it, definitely NOT as bad as Barbara or Make It Good, but it's still not on the level of any of the other Surf's Up tracks. I'm glad it's not on it.

You're really something else, aren't ya?  I'd hate to cross paths with you if you were any more vindictive.  We'd find out really quick who's head would end up in the toilet.  Hint hint: It wouldn't be mine.  ;D

‍

I don't give a triple toed flying f*** what some pitiful little messageboard c*** thinks about me. Go f*** yourself

Really nice to read so many people are connecting with this song...finally. Its been kind of sad for me (and others) to know this great track was just buried from it's audience for so long. This is like an old, but healthy eagle getting let out of a cage and finally getting a chance to fly. As usual there's a few people who have a negative opinion too. That negativity seems relatively inconsequential when I read the many posts from people getting goosebumps and being brought to tears by the power of experiencing this song for the first times. I didn't really expect to see that after so many years of anticipation and hype, figured there would be a big wave of yawns, but i also knew the song would stand the test of time once it began circulating into all the good ears that live on this board. We'll see this song eventually settle into its rightful place in the Beach Boys canon. Notable for being perhaps Dennis' most pure and powerful vocal on record, and also notable for waiting the longest of anything in the BB's unreleased pile that is even close to this quality.

Very well said. This day is a banner occasion. Pure vocal, essential, spiritual song. Let the eagle soar (nice metaphor Jon).

wat

 :tm  Nice song. Dennis voice is in fine form - there is a noticeable lack of BB harmony work, I was hoping for more. The repetitive guitar lick
seemed a bit odd but then again it adds to the trance-like quality of the overall song. I like the shift caused by the tag because it acts
effectively to snap you out of the trance/ dreamy vocal section. I know this tune will grow on me the more I listen to it, especially when I can
hear it on my main system and not cheezy PC speakers.

‍

Okay, my impression:

WIBNTLA is NOT the end-all, be-all and I was more blown away by "Soulful Old Man Sunshine"....BUT....

This is classic Dennis as we would expect. Great (if a bit overdramatic) production, amazing vocals from the guy....and that it's taken this long for us fans to have access to it is a crime against humanity.

I thought the conflict was that Dennis wanted "Wouldn't it Be Nice To Live Again" to come right after "Till I Die" ... like, death and resurrection ... but Carl (and likely others) felt that it should end with "Surf's Up" ... that was the conflict between Dennis & Carl regarding the sequence, so Dennis pulled his songs. I guess I kind of assumed it was going to be a 12-track album like Sunflower, but maybe not since it would run pretty long that way.

WE FINALLY GOT THIS!
Let's just save all the negativity for tomorrow and have a drink! :beer

Holy sh*t...really? Completely uncalled for.

When you come back in seven days, please refrain from further outbursts like this one. Not cool.

Here, here! 8)

Just listening to it right now. I'm digging Dennis's vocal and the production more than the actual song itself. Dennis sounds great, especially the higher parts that he does. This should have been released before.

I kind of have a hard picturing the intended Surfs Up being anything less than 12 tracks myself.

Off the meds today, Bergen? Completely uncalled for.

I need to listen to this on a decent system. Computer speakers I am thinking isn't doing this justice. I like the song, love Dennis' vocal (may be his best), and I enjoy the ending. What I need to judge later, is if it is really as great as all the hype. It is a shame that Dennis pulled this off the album and that it sat in the archives for 42 years. It is much too good for that to have happened.

HOLY$HIT I just caved and listened to this track.

There is only one thing I can say:

1. Good Vibrations
2. Wouldn't it be nice to live again

As to how this was never released, I am completely baffled.

Fucking great track. It may not be Dennis' best composition but everything clicks. That era's aesthetics, production values, lead voice, band vocals. Wow.

Who is singing "Do you think we can live again?" an octave below Dennis at the end?

Bose speakers are really nice for computers. I digress.

It goes on pretty seriously for a long time.  It never really breaks down until it breaks down, if that makes sense, and if I recall correctly.

Dennis.

Shoot - I'd love to hear the rest! Hopefully it's released somewhere at some point. Don't get me wrong, I understand the edit and the song is great either way, but still.

Thanks fer the response. ^_^

At work, I am lucky to even have speakers. ;) I will have a good listen tomorrow.

 It really is the truth.  Dennis put so much emotion into his music, it seems like a piece of his soul is forever embeded in it.  Dennis has been gone a long time, but even after all these years, he can still bring us to tears with the beautiful art he created.  I simply can't say how glad I am that we finally get to hear this track.  I've been listening to it all day long.  It is beautiful!

I agree. All six Beach Boys were contributing during that period; the album could've EASILY been twelve tracks. But, if "(Wouldn't It Be Nice To) Live Again" would've been included, that would've been five songs over 4:00 in length. :o

"Wouldn't It Be Nice To Live Again" - 4:55
"Disney Girls" - 4:11
"Student Demonstration Time" - 4:01
"Feel Flows" - 4:49
"Surf's Up - 4:12

After listening to "Wouldn't It Be Nice To) Live Again", this is my new preferred Surf's Up album:

01 Don't Go Near The Water
02 Lady
03 (Wouldn't It Be Nice To) Live Again
04 Long Promised Road
05 Disney Girls

06 Feel Flows
07 Lookin' At Tomorrow
08 A Day In The Life Of A Tree
09 Til I Die
10 Surf's Up








 

  

It's a very happy day to be a Dennis Wilson fan!  :rock

I really think this track, more than any other, proves beyond doubt that Dennis was a true artist, equal in talent to Brian ... though different. And it also illustrates that Dennis, more so than Brian, was truly not made for his time ... and that while the Beach Boys made it possible for him, they also held him back. What shines brightest in this track to me is POTENTIAL. Don't get me wrong, the track is absolutely fully realized ... but the potential of Dennis as a legitimate artist in the early '70s. Dennis with a different kind of confidence. Dennis as a leader, not a team player. Dennis as the great artist, fully recognized during his life ... and how this would have changed his life, particularly in the later years. Dennis somehow able to escape the shadow of Brian and Murry.

Is that you, Bruce?

Youngster needs a good spankin'.

:lol :lol :lol That was wonderful.
As is WIBNTLA. I can't believe we're finally getting to hear it. My only wish is that the backing vocals would have been done in a more "Ahhh" style, similar to Adam Marsland's version. That would have made this absolutely perfect. Still, a great song, Tag and all.

I understand why Dennis wanted it to go after "Til I Die", since thematically & lyrically it fits perfectly after it.

Is that correct? I thought he was insistant upon it closing the album, that's all.

This is a beautiful track, his voice is as good here as I've ever heard it. It actually makes POB a little harder to listen to, just because he sounds so clean here yet still with that edge.

The fact that these guys could just leave pieces of music like this laying around unfinished....it's crazy. But then again, the left a whole album of great music unfinished with SMiLE. Think they developed a real problem with closing the deal.

Just played it thru my Adam-A7s.  Fucking monster track! Yeah, Beach Boys background vocals might have added something (like Adam's cover) or not. My only critique is the kind of stoned, foggy guitar solo. Dennis just stuns on the vocal!

I think they should have let Charles Lloyd go nuts for a minute or so, and then went back the "who ever said" bits, then a fade out.

Actually, if l remember correctly this tune was finished...

1. Wouldn't It Be Nice To Live Again
 2. Good Vibrations.

Yeah, I said it!  ;D

It's exactly as I recall hearing back in the day, but in the interests of research, I'll have a word with the legendary "Someone Who Would Know".

As for the rest of your comments in this thread... they don't deserve or require further comment from anyone here, least of all me.

Personally I think the title "Good Vibrations" is so... cliched. Don't think I'll listen to it.  ;D

I wonder what SIP Mike and Juice Bronston would think of WIBNTLA?

The song rules! It's classic Dennis and with amazing 1971 production values. Who is on drums? Dennis or Kowalski - the drums are awesome!
It definitely would've made Surf's Up a better album. Take A Load Off Your Feet (especially) and Student Demonstration Time don't fit too well for me. I don't really dig Disney Girls either - Bruce is a bit too twee/naff/square for me. Sometimes I have time for it though.

Although this isn't accurate at all - I've been listening this as a possible first album from DW.

All Of My Love
Lady
Sounds of Free
Barbara
4th Of July

I've Got A Friend
Carry Me Home
Cuddle Up
Make It Good
Wouldn't It Be Nice To Live Again

Drums could have been Dennis - the basic track session was 5/23/71, and he didn't slice his hand for at least another two weeks.

Instead of reading through seven pages of folks trying to describe this song, I learned all I need to know from one post in an Amazon discussion about MIC, which not only got right to the nitty-gritty about this topic, but "California Feelin' " as well... all within a couple of sentences.  

http://www.amazon.com/Tracklist/forum/Fx3VWAI12XJKJGR/Tx3U08893HAH038/1/ref=cm_cd_dp_tp_cq?_encoding=UTF8&asin=B008XZKSRY

I agree there's enough to entice you to get it some of the tracks you mentioned and a few that got my attention plus even the doubles are all tracks i play and i won't have to play a cd for just a few songs anymore because they'll all be on this thing,,,interesting they jump from different stereo mixes and mono eg 1996, 2002, 2012 you'd think they'd all be 2012 but they're not...California Feelin' i assume is the melody to california girls? wouldn't be nice is the same as the pet sound song but dennis sings it and say wouldn't be nice to live again...he had an interesting voice not to be discarded his solo album was better than anyone could imagine.

Just the facts, ma'm.

Holy f***.

WIBNTLA exceeds the hype  - it's just amazing, awesome and unreal. 

Unbelievable it was canned, and that it didn't get onto 15 B/O, Love You or KTSA (in lieu of the other archive raid artifacts), or booted before - would have been a great scoop for  Adult Child.

I was getting a bit MEH about MIC (not about Alan B or Mark L et als obviously stellar efforts, just Capitol's insistence we repurchase a majority of heavily milked stuff), but this stuff is starting to turn my head around - thanks for posting, I really appreciate it.

 

I'm glad that cousin Denny got another song out there. I like the song, it has lyrics I can relate to about boy and girls.

If you had gotten the song early somehow, wouldn't you share it? This song was in the vaults too long  :P

I don't know, Dick, I think it would be perfectly fine for us to have SEVENTY pages of superlatives for this one. It was clear it was at least very good from the Chaos Band version (lovely work from the wonderful Evie Sands, with Adam and the rest of the band giving it their all), but we now know that it's a track indelibly tied to the voice of Dennis Wilson and no one else.

In the album aesthetics that were in play back in the day, WIBNTLA is indisputably a closing track--it's gotta be the last track on a side, it would pointless to follow it with anything. You need at least the time it takes to get up and flip the record to let the full impact of the song have its effect. I'm no SDT basher, but WIBNTLA would have been one of the greatest WTF moments in rock history if it had been the Side 1 closer. A shame that it didn't, for as Donny said, it might have shifted the dynamics of the band in ways that might have precluded the events that many (most?) of us continue to lament.

It's such an unorthodox construction that it's hard to see it as a hit, but when the guitar kicks in at 2:27 it is--to try to follow Donny's assessment to a more specific observation--one of the five greatest emotionally galvanizing moments in the BB canon. The more times you hear it, the more it captures you. It had a shot to be an FM hit, I think--the early 70s, for all the repetitive torpor that was just around the corner, was still a time when a certain kind of overwrought grandeur could resonate. And Dennis nails it here, in a way that no one else could do.

How could it never get played live? The BBs gave "River Song" a few shots, but--my God--how could a live audience not fall rapturously in love with WIBNTLA? It was made to be played iive!

WIBNTLA proves that Dennis was just as good as Brian at creating out-of-nowhere transitions that magically work, often in spite of themselves. Of course, as Jon, Donny, and runners have said, he does it differently, with a more direct connection to rock'n'roll. I would venture to say that it's Dennis's "Can't Wait Too Long", except that it's a finished track, totally coherent, but amazingly alive and spontaneous.

There's no pitch "correction" here, though it's possible that the track was slowed down in order to let Dennis sing in a more comfortable register...we know that this happened on certain tracks ("Slip On Through"). But I think it's just as likely that he sang it "as is." Whatever the case, there's no question that it's his greatest vocal.

It's funny to see people being so ecstatic about all the songs that have been leaked so far, when a month or three ago virtually the entire board had very little positive things to say about what was or wasn't on MIC.  ;D

Would depend on the source and any constraints on sharing. That it hasn't been so much as leaked, much less booted, should tell you all you need to know about the latter, and the integrity of the very few it (obviously) was shared with.

The guy is a complete f*ckwit - been a fan for three years or so, has read Brian's pseudobiography. Claims Mike sued to keep unreleased tracks off the box, and lost, and that this was in a UK magazine. Bullshit, as we all know.

Man, can you imagine if the C50 backing band had performed this live, with Dennis's voice on top of everything?  ;D The place would have gone nuts!! They could have dimmed the lights so the only thing you saw was a montage of pictures of Dennis? Or maybe they could have put the spotlight on Dave for the guitar solo.

Here's my 2¢ - when the chorus kicks in at 0.32, if every single hair on your body doesn't stand on end, then... well... I don't know what to say.

Had that happened, I wouldn't be here now. I would have exploded with sheer joy.

I have literally been listening to this recording for about an hour, non stop.  ;D Each listen is better than the last.  :)

But it makes knowing what Dennis's fate was that much more heartbreaking.

OK,so what I can't get my head around is after Dennis had a year or so to calm down, why on earth did he not put this on C&TP? Imagine if this had replaced the dire 'Make it Good'. Cuddle Up and WIBNTLA together on one side would have been epic.

Very good song, would've been a welcome addition to Surf's Up. The arrangement is notably different from what I expected, much more "down to earth".

I agree with everyone that it is downright weird how this song could stay in the vaults for so long. The guy did this song at age 26, right? And now we're getting to hear it a mere 30 years after his passing. That's crazy.

I listened to it earlier but have been fighting a cold so am just getting around to putting my thoughts up here now.  Obviously, it's fantastic and anyone who disagrees has no right calling themself a Beach Boys fan.  It's funny to finally hear something you've been waiting to hear.  Once we knew it was coming I started reading some of the descriptions from those who heard it and while those descriptions are spot on, it didn't sound like I imagined it would, based on those same dead on description.  I don't really know what I was expecting but it somehow exceeded and fell just a bit short of my expectations.   ???

I'm not really of a fan of Dennis's stuff on So Tough! but I like very close to all of his tracks on 20/20, Sunflower, and Holland, as well as "4th Of July" and most of his solo stuff.  Although it makes total sense, I didn't expect the similarity to "Cuddle Up", slight that it is.  I'm happy that it's completely fleshed out and realized and the vocal is amazing.  But as great as it is (and it IS great) I still favor "Forever".  My one minor problem with Dennis's stuff is his occasional "melodramatic tendencies" and while that raw emotion totally works on this track (and many others), I find "Forever" to be an easier listen with a more universal message.  The other thing that gives "Forever" the edge with me is the backing vocals.  People have said Adam's version has a slightly more "Beach Boys-y" backing vocals and I think it would have helped soften this song's edge.  Still, don't get me wrong.  This song is an absolute masterpiece and I'm so happy we and everyone else can finally enjoy it.  It's an absolute crime that it languished in the vaults for so long and that Dennis isn't around to finally hear its well deserved accolades.  :'(

I'm also happy to finally have the complete 1971 Landlocked album.  (That album couldn't be called Surf's Up because everyone knows that song was on the album they released in early 1967. ;D )

OK, from the horse's mouth, or as close as - the guitar was on the original 16-track, and no autotune. Guess you either believe me on this one, or you don't.

I think when the guitar part kicks in is the highlight of the song. Says more in a few notes than what a hundred notes ever could.

Wow - well, that was pretty spectacular... Doesn't resemble Cuddle Up to me, although definite shades of Holy Christmas. This would've guaranteed Surf's Up a place in any top 5 BB album list. What were they thinking leaving this unreleased? Dennis, you mad but insanely talented fool!

I disagree. I like it, I'd never skip it, but it's not fantastic. Dennis did much better. Maybe it'll grow on me

Can I still call myself a Beach Boys fan? Pleeeaaaassseeeee?

Majestic. Made my day.

Some people here seem to have had a serious taste bypass.

Ummmmmmmmmmm...

Wellllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll...

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh...

...

......

.........

............

No.

Glad to see this idiot has revealed himself for the short-tempered troll buffoon he is...

The Boys have had their share of dumb decisions but not releasing this song back in the day really takes the cake

And it begins :lol

Here's m y counter volley....

Luckily I have faith in my own tastes and don't just blindly follow the crowd.

Your turn

Yawn......

That particular decision was taken, and effected by one Wilson, Dennis Carl.  ;D

That's not trolling, that's just low-grade cussin'. Should be an interesting time six days hence...  ::)

Not to mention that he could have released it at any time over the following 12 years...

It's absolutely wonderful. I can't wait to hear more but i've had to purposely stop myself from listening to it. I don't want to burn myself out on it before I actually get the boxset! ;) I will say this this might just be Dennis's crowning moment in the BB's. Including this over Student Demonstration Time would have made Surf's Up comparable to Sunflower or hell even Today! In classic status.

Dumb angel I say...

WIBNTLA...Wow...Just Wow !!!

How the hell could they keep stuff like WIBNTLA in the vaults and not issue it until now. Compare this with another popular band called The Beatles. What did they pull out of their archives for the Anthology series? Subpar material such as You Know What To Do, If You've Got Trouble, 12-Bar Original and Los Paranoias...

Conclusion: The Beach Boys are better than the Beatles.  ;D

Any Beatles fan who listens to Da Doo Ron Ron may allow themselves a chuckle at that comment.  ;)

 The Beatles were smart enough to release their best songs in the albums and not let it shelved for forty odd years.

Conclusion: The Beatles are smarter than The Beach Boys.

Put this on first thing again when I woke up this morning. Ok, yeah, sure, it's pretty good, what of it? It's great yeah big deal. so what...

WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Imagine WIBNTLA and We got love on the "Holland" album.... ;)

Better than I could have ever imagined.

I am blown away, easily my favorite Dennis song ever.

Don't tell me you broke down Shady

I lasted all of 22 hours.  :-\

This is worth it though. Magical song.

>:D Yes! Join us.

I don't think I'll ever hear his later singing in the same way I did before I heard WIBNTLA. Mind you, I really enjoy his work on L.A. or POB but this guy absolutely RUINED his voice along the way. It's more apparent than ever. Also, the more rock-oriented later stuff like "Under the Moonlight" may have its charms but to me it's clearly not even half as good as this.

+1

Do you really think this kind of nonsense needs any comment on this board?

Hahah I just heard it and my mind is blown! :lol

Fantastic track, fantastic vocal delivery by Dennis, fantastic arrangement and the outro really bridges SU with C&TP.

Incredible that this has remained unbooted and unreleased for 40 years. Simply incredible.


At the same time it is very bitter to think about what an album SU was close to being. With even stronger tracklisting it could've moved further up the charts and helped the group with some commercial success as well as artistic acclaim before the onslaught of Endless Summer. This is another sad example of how egos can cause serious damage. This is probably the most serious 'what if' of the entire group's career because  this time all the music was ready (unlike Smile, 1975 album etc).


Oh gee, rest in peace Carl and Dennis. Their legacies grow by each day!

I just have to repeat the word many have used: Majestic! This is the kind of song I can listen to 20 times in a row easily. I don't fancy the end-tag much though.  I think it's better than all the other Surf's Up tracks except for the title track

The end is outstanding, we have enough BB albums with ballads as closer, what's wrong with putting some fine funky vibe in it? fits fine, the rest does have a Alone/Cuddle Up feeling, yet it is so beautiful, love the looping, Carl's parts... incredible

i used to think Surf's Up was one of the strongest album, but now we have this and 4th Of July and you realize how even better it could have been... this is incredible, long live the music of Dennis.

The wonders of capitalism ;D



That's what I thought on first listen too. :)

My opinion:

I agree with everybody that this is probably Dennis' best vocal ever. The song is great, better to me than all other tracks on the SU album except Student Demonstration Time. (Got you confused there, didn't I? ;D) While Dennis' singing is indeed majestic, the track is "only" very good.



It doesn't fit the mood of the rest of the song at all, that's what's IMHO wrong with it, and thus I don't like it. The last moment to fade would be the 3:48 mark, and I think I'll make myself a version that ends at that spot. Of course I respect anyone's opinion who thinks the tag is great.

Don't be such an idiot, Stephen.  I wasn't having a go at you and I'm glad you have faith in your own tastes. Makes you come across as mature... It's just that there are one or two on here who seemed determined to dislike it.  I love it for what it is not because someone else likes it. It would have considerably enhanced my favourite 70s BB album.

If anyone still hasn't heard it, it's here:

http://fridaynightboys300.blogspot.co.uk/2013/08/dennis-wilson-and-beach-boys-wouldnt-it.html

Many has said this is Dennis' best vocal. Agree. I'll go out on a limb and ask if it's not one of the best Beach Boys vocals?

The production is great and the lead is a career best vocal contender for Dennis.  That said, I'm not particularly impressed with the song.  It's nowhere near as good as most of his work was IMO.

Sorry Ed, I thought that was directed at me. I was only being semi-serious  in my response though, as I'm sure you gathered.

In all honesty this one will probably be a grower on me. Usually if I'm blown away first listen I'll get bored with it after awhile. If it takes a little time, it's a more permanent thing.

No problem, Stephen.  Thanks for replying.

I think the end fits just fine since through all the song while it is calm and mellow there is a sens of weirdness with the loops and the voices coming in and out around by Carl, and it comes in naturally, tho a surprise, a surprise that is welcome and unique, i would have been really out of place on Cuddle Up, but here it's just ok and a cool part, didn't someone said there was a longer version of that? why did they cut it out.

Lowbacca, you rule (Cliff too, of course)! Even if you didn't intend to save the link, many thanks toward you!

At the very 1st play of the song, I didn't think that it's great. But slowly, gradually I began to see its coolness & beauty. I completely agree with posters who say that it's Dennis's one of the best (still sounding young) vocals in his lifetime career (not counting only the 70s). It very impressed me, esp. when he hit the high notes holding them on & on. Before this I couldn't've imagined him doing so. It's very difficult even for professional singers. Furthermore, I absolutely love the bass guitar - in fact, it was the 1st thing that I paid attention to & thought it was great. So simplistic, yet utterly tasteful. The whole arrangement seems rather simple, f.ex. the guitar solo which repeats over & over the same riff. Speaking of the electric guitar, nothing is bad about it at all. I mean, the melody is a bit melancholic & sad, so that guitar gives some edge & rock sound & finally, the song doesn't seem too sentimental. What I like also about the solo is its almost inaudible appearance. You can't tell for sure when it goes, at what second. In short, that's one cool guitar right there! As for the flute, well, it's totally on the money! Charles Lloyd's style is very recognizable. Without reading credits, I knew it was him. Cute & charming side of the song, the flute solo combined with the delicate piano brings joy, optimism & lightness to it. And actually speaks for the title "Wouldn't It Be Nice to Live Again". I can see why it's the most favorite moment of the song by many here. Mine too! Wish the ending was much longer. One of the greatest tags in the BBs song or any. Full stop.

All in all, jolly good composition (though "Rainbows" I like better & not just a tad!)! Maybe the most original written by Dennis - there are so many things going on in it! Not just verse-chorus-verse-chorus-bridge-chorus. As some people stated, it deserved to be released earlier, but then again, maybe today, in 2013, it's the right time for the song to be heard? I'd reckon so.

Conclusion: Brian is the best composer of The BBs, there is a magic even in his goofiest works. Am afraid I shall never change this point of view. However, Dennis is talented too & by WIBNTLA he showed what he's genuinely capable of. Therefore, I won't compare both brothers, not fair.

I also think, for me, the years of hype is getting in the way. I need to try and disregard this and listen to it on it's own terms.

I was going to wait as well but it was too damn hard! Its possible that this could be my favourite Dennis song as well. Even better than all of Pacific Ocean Blue.

Really? I haven't actually noticed anyone saying they genuinely dislike it but maybe I've missed some posts...

I don't think Mr. Moustache was too keen on the mixing job. He was a little shy in saying so though.

 Is that really Ron Burgundy on flute at the end?

The song, it's pretty good. His voice is awesome.

For some reason, I was really looking forward to hear what the repeating three note guitar solo sounded like. I started laughing when I heard it.

I was explaining the whole story to my roommate about how this was supposed to be the last track instead of Surf's Up and she said "Oh, this song is soo much better than Surf's Up!" and now she wants to hear it again. My first listen was on headphones and then I played it again for her. So I've already heard it twice. I can't really see myself listening to it again right now. It's so long.

I pretty much agree.  The vocal and the production are out of this world! 

"Just heard it, definitely NOT as bad as Barbara or Make It Good, but it's still not on the level of any of the other Surf's Up tracks. I'm glad it's not on it."

Agree...it's a brilliant chorus, sung with more heart and soul than any single human being ought to be able to possess. And it adds significant complication to the story being told in the lyrics, changing the musical and narrative dynamics all at the same time.

And still, after a second go-round of verse/chorus, that guitar solo just ups the ante, lifting the track out of its original context and into some kind of holy space. Range Rover has some nice observations about how it "creeps" in...it takes maybe a few listens to sense how such a simple figure can wind up being so powerful. A great example of what the wacked-out rock critic Richard Meltzer used to call "orgasmic monotony," i.e. a pocket of ecstasy that you don't ever want to end. It's the space being sought, we get the glimpse...then Dennis comes back in with the chorus and we're back on the outside of the Garden of Eden, looking in with even more longing.

A lot of fine, insightful comments here, like Don Malcolm's which I forgot to quote. "Holy space" etc. My previous hyperbole aside, I would like to make a humble, layman's attempt to analyze the essential nature of Dennis Wilson's work, which this clearly represents at its best. I hope this will inspire deeper contemplation and discussion by others here.

There is a basic structural similarity to most of his music. Simple but resonant chords and phrases, amidst structural complexity. An overwhelming emotionality and melancholy that can be almost too overwrought to bear. When he strikes the right balance between this kind of triumphant grandiosity and the inherent sadness to which it's linked in his work, it produces an almost drug-like, addictive, ear-gasmic, can't-get-enough-listens response in those who are attuned to his wavelength, which is most certainly not everyone. Holy Man & Tug of Love are others that are incredibly hypnotic and compelling, IMO. This quality was consistent but his muse gradually got darker as his life unraveled. By Bambu and the time of worse deterioration it was, to my ears almost unbearable. Love Remember Me is very similar to WIBNTLA, almost its obverse twin, coming from a place of almost total despair. Very beautiful but almost unlistenably sad, like "All Alone". In his earlier period especially, he was ambitiously (not consciously so) trying to articulate a transcendentally escapist, idealistic musical sensibility, which is almost frightening in its intensity but at its most fully realized is uniquely evocative and visceral in its effect.

There's a reason why, as Jack Rieley said (if he can be trusted as a source in this case) that the rest of the band (not sure if this was all-inclusive or not) was "consumed by jealousy" or words to that effect when presented with his two offerings for SU. This song crystallizes and achieves his gift for emotional connection completely, in spine-tingling fashion. As Jon said, the delicacy and  emotional range of the vocal reading is amazing. Even if the song is relatively simple, it strikes a note of perfect longing for the victory of romantic love over all obstacles, its escape from all earthly constraints. Total idealism: "whoever told the very first lie" and other similar metaphors throughout, attempting to create a safe haven from the storms outside and alluding to the loss of purity in an almost Adam and Eve sense. Perhaps he felt irrevocably corrupted by his experience with you-know-who and his acolytes, who I will leave unnamed, and wanted desperately to regain his innocence from before that period of his life. He said later that it had "destroyed" him, or words to that effect. Be With Me from that time had a similar romantically escapist theme. Little Bird and Be Still from the period just before this destructive association had themes of personal growth and affirmation which were more positive, less tinged with darkness, but equally effective.

This capacity for pure emotional connection is a rare gift, which is shared of course by Brian, whose musical sensibility at its peak was more nuanced and complex in its balance between the light and the dark sides of human nature, more universal in its appeal. A more well-rounded and fully realized artist, by a wide margin, but they each refract their own unique facets of the Wilson family's genetic makeup. Carl I think had aspects of both, with a delicate, ethereal nature, a talent that was very refined, to the point of being cloying, but not quite as profound as that of his brothers (singing aside, where his spirit shone brightly), although with considerable merit in its own right. Quite a trio.

How much of all the praise is down to the fact that you've been waiting so long to hear it? It will be very interesting to see the board's opinion a year down the line. Amidst all the C50 hype, many people were really digging TWGMTR (the album), and since then opinions on that one have cooled considerably.

Ranked against Dennis' other work, I wouldn't say it's his best song OR best vocal, but it is definitely up there in the top 4 or 5.

A beautiful vocal. Gorgeous, full-blown production.
Regarding the songwriting, I think that if you dig Dennis' style, you will love it as this ranks among his more well-rounded efforts. I find his songwriting erratic and somewhat pointless at times (but he makes for it through heavily-involved performance and lushness of production-sound). But this tune is as focused as his other stronger songs in the catalogue.

Unlike Soulful Ol Man Sunshine, WIBNTLA came out gracefully out of decades of hyping.

Listened to it with earphones on walking home from work just now. Chills down my body, stunning song and what vocal by Dennis.

Boy, did this live up to the hype, did not think it was possible

I'm a huge Soulful fan ... although I don't recall any hype about it. Still, it was a great treat to hear back in 98.

WIBNTLA is definitely a solid, excellent, mid-career Dennis tune, with above-average vocals and a lovely, relatively understated production. Love the out of left-field tag.

I know I've sounded notes of skepticism about Dennis's work in the past ... but I've never denied that he was an excellent producer and performer, and that he wrote some great songs. What's more, he was clearly the band's best shot in the 1970s for a clear, different direction.

You listen to WIBNTLA and you can hear this alternate path for the band, and you can also just realize how far Dennis fell, and how quickly, by the end of the 1970s. No one valued him enough, least of all himself.

I'd say the opposite holds true for Dennis' work. It tends to gain admirers, converts, respect and acclaim as time goes on. Sure some people don't connect with it, but more and more do as time goes on. He was barely talked about in the '90's. 20 years down the line his stuff has become easily the most respected work in the BB's legacy other than Brian's, and he's continued to gain on big brother. The same will hold true for this song. Its going to bring even more people to the "cult" of DW, his work just has an addictive quality to it. Some people try it and don't dig the buzz, but a growing majority are hooked.

Whoa, it's like an orgasm for the ears!  There are few songs that make my hair stand up on end or send shivers down my spine but this one did.  Mind blown...or better yet mindf**ked (in the best possible way)!   :lol    That guitar part is killer.  This is definitely the best Dennis track that took the longest to see a release.  Looking forward to your book Jon!

 Upon first listen I was slightly underwhelmed. ("Too much hype" "Is Evie's version better?") By the fourth hearing, however, I was completely taken by the aching romanticism and the very best vocal of Dennis Wilson's career. It's a wonderful song, but still too new (to me) to evaluate in the context of Dennis's (and The Beach Boys') total body of work.

 It begs the question: where does WIBNTLA fit on SURF'S UP? Again, very hard to say. I can't see it as the closing track. It would work rather well closing side one, but then what the hell do we do with "Student Demonstration Time"? (I don't believe in discarding any original tracks for my alternate versions of SURF'S UP, and I kinda like SDT anyway.)

 It seems odd - insane maybe - that WIBNTLA didn't come out until 2013. Could it have been used for SO TOUGH or HOLLAND? Easily. One of the mid to late 70's albums? A harder sell given the decline of Dennis's voice, but in an alternate world, it may have been rescued from the vaults as part of a 1976 album. The GOOD VIBRATIONS box in 1993? Amazing they would favor "4th of July" over WIBNTLA.

But we're talking about The Beach Boys, and the things they do often make little sense. Very glad we can hear this gem today in 2013 and in all the days to come!
 

One thing it's missing is Adam's POB Dennis impression echoing "Whoever said?". That was a stroke of genius.

I pretty sure it's there in the original, buried really low

 Yes. I bought a FRIENDS reissue a couple of days after Dennis drowned. When "Little Bird" came on I was like "Dennis could write songs!" I had been into The Beach Boys for several years, but did not truly discover the music of Dennis Wilson until he was gone. My appreciation for POB evolved over several years after buying a used promo/DJ copy about 1985.

It's nearly identical to the Adam Marsland/Evie Sands version aside from the lead vocalist.  Though that was probably Marsland's intention, to make it sound as close to the original as possible.  Anyways, I knew it was a great song when I heard that version and I still think it's a great song, it sounds great and it's probably one of Dennis's best vocal performances.

I wonder how the Made In California mix differs from the mix that was cut from The Warmth of The Sun. I assume the song was remixed for the box set.

Also, hearing WIBNTLA makes me realize how great it would have been to hear it in surround sound on the Surf's Up DVD-Audio reissue. Does anyone know what the prospective tracklist was for that release?

Does WIBNTLA live up to the all the hype? Absolutely!

Just heard it now for the first time. As discussed in another thread POB could and should have been a BB album. I like 15 Big Ones. I like it all. But wow. The different direction they all took in the second half of the 1970's. But hey, we got the The Beach Boys Love You and Pacific Ocean Blue. Go figure. This band was on fire at times. It was all good. 'Celebration' too.

It had to be tough for Dennis to shelve his songs. I guess there was another BB album. Another tour. Dennis moved on. He should have been allowed to have a solo career along with his role in The Beach Boys. I hate to hear that he was told to stay with the band when a few years later Mike did 'Celebration' and his solo album. I really like 'Celebration'. I guess Mike's solo career didn't last long anyway.

Dennis gets to shine here for BB50. Shine on.

I really think everyone (including Dennis himself) was so consumed with Brian's problems that Dennis' own issues went neglected.

I'm glad this woke a few up to how good a vocalist Dennis could be. As much as I love his work in the second half of the seventies,  something special had been lost by 1975. Nice to hear Brian and Carl on this too by the way.  If I were Carl I would have begged Dennis to compromise.

I wonder what would have happened if Dennis had issued this song as a single by himself. Or better yet, if this had been played on the radio as being a "mystery artist".

Nope - Adam himself stated here that this was his idea.


I'm a bit sketchy on this, but I don't think it was (re)discovered in the BRI vault until a few years later. I'll find out.

Does anybody know the full breakdown of who played what? Will it be in the liner notes? I'm just wondering if it's Brian playing the "pounding" piano. It sounds like his style of playing(to me, it does).

Surprised at all the hate for "Barbara" as I always liked that one.  Been listening to WIBNTLA (You know given how many initials are in the title, I might as well have typed that one out) and I think it's a pretty strong track in it's own right.  In a way it's probably better that a lot of these tracks are only coming out now.  Given how the band was being received in mainstream circles at the time of "Surf's Up" (at least in the USA) the song probably would've been buried. 

Any insights as to why did Dennis made this decision?  Even with the hindsight of 40 years of historical and musical perspective, I see no reason why this didn't get an earlier airing.

Politics aside, what would make Dennis shelve this but then support the inclusion of "...,Pete" or "Hold on Dear Brother", "Susie Cin" or even "Make it Good"?

Why would Dennis favour a remake of "Only With You*" for his solo album instead of this smokin' beast?

To me, it indicates Dennis made a rather significant decision to let it go - are there any clues as to what got in his craw?

*Not that there's anything wrong with that. I love the POB Only with You.

"Barbara"s really nice, surprised it has a slightly bad reputation.

A slightly bad reputation is still better than poor "All Alone" from the same cd, which seems to be largely ignored by many fans.

Sequence the album [Surf's Up] with WIBNTLA following Til I Die. Then after WIBNTLA a slightly longer than average pause (say 6 seconds) and then Surf's Up. This to my ears works wonderfully. After the beautiful but dark subject matter of Til I Die, WIBNTLA works as a glorious reassertion of hope.

I think Dennis never returned to the song because he always wanted to be moving forward creatively and artistically and as such considered it a finished work from the past and didn't want to dig it up for inclusion on POB. River Song differs in this respect as it was a song he'd continually been working and building on for years.

WIBNTLA was clearly about Barbara. By the time POB was made they were over. That's a good a guess as any as to why he didn't want to revisit it.

I'm wondering if that fantastic guitar sound was played by Carl...

Fool on the Hill was mentioned. Im hearing a little phrasing from Golden Slumbers too. l'll let you figure out where. ;D

Haven't heard the MiC version yet, only Adam's live cover – but Golden Slumbers is a certain.  In fact, the two meld together when I'm playing it to myself within my inner-skull hi-fi!

Cool youve got one of those too?

Oh yes… can you guess where the volume control is?   ;)

1st thing that came to mind (if I understood rightly the meaning of "inner skull hi-fi") was ears. I.e. you tug your left ear - it's up & the right one - down, or vice versa.

Well when you cant get a tune out of your head thats inner skull HiFi to me. And its usually an outside influnce that drives down the volume although Ive done well at drowning out the wife with something or another playing on my inner skull jukebox driving to work, etc.  :lol

I'm curious who Jack Rieley was talking about? OK, you don't even have to mention one of them; it's understood. But who were the others who were jealous of Dennis' songs? His brothers Brian and Carl? Al? Bruce?

No, none.



In my case, none.

But after repeated listens it really seems to me like the song had been there all the time, like a classic of which you don't remember when you heard it for the first time.

I found another part that I don't like too much, the transition to the second verse. That sounds a bit like "um, what are we gonna do now? Up next is the second verse... umm... here it goes." to me personally.

But in spite of that and the fact I don't like the tag at all, I think this song is good enough that it should have been the single from the album in its day.

If you have a basic understanding of the type of people Dennis and Brian are you wouldn't need to labor over this question, and its not just you...many people are asking this upon hearing the song. But think about the history. The Wilsons like to revisit motifs and  lyric snippets and recycle them into newer works, but they tend to be moving forward all the time, they do what they do and move to the next thing. In fact Dennis and Brian are usually done with a song before its done, this is why we get sloppy mixes and messy editing decisions because they throw it together or leave that aspect to others when they lose interest. Its in the doing that they are focused and once whatever that feel or inspiration has been satisfied, that's it, no more thought towards it, they can't get away fast enough. Dennis' whole reason for pulling his tracks off Surfs Up is a simple one, he wanted them heard in a certain context, if that wasn't going to be the case then he he didn't want them on there. He was over it in like two days, never held it against anybody...it was a cold calculated thing. He and Carl disagreed about the sequence of the LP, Carl won out, Dennis said OK but you don't get my tracks. Next. The thing that most grates on me is no one else in the band insisted his tracks stay, according to Reiley, and some others around the activity, they were jealous or envious of Dennis' talent, and were happy to see Dennis' work not on the LP for completely selfish reasons. So yes Dennis made an impulsive choice...gee that's out of character, he was such a careful guy.::) ...No one else fought to keep his stuff on there (according to observers). And yes, the fact that he revisited Only With You is the real anomaly, same with All Alone...but in fact later in life I think Dennis's prolific streak had run its course and he was more open to mining the leftovers because he was running out of gas. But in '71 he was on fire and he just kept creating new stuff, and for the next five years it was piling up, the solo LP ahead was the only real release, he could have easily done three but for that to happen the first one needed to be '71/72. Didn't happen, he finished one brilliant LP, but before he nailed down the next one he derailed, and burned out.

If they are "the rest of the band" I'd say, yeah.  :p

Sounds fishy too me, if they were so jealous why did they contribute to the effort?

Back to the happier topic of the song itself, I keep fantasizing that this becomes a huge hit, bigger than Kokomo.

If he wasn't going to fight for himself then why should anybody else? Especially as it does make perfect sense for Surf's Up to close the album.

And Rieley is hardly a man to be trusted.

Oh come on, all the people in and around the Beach Boys are trustworthy, right? I've never been told otherwise. Should I do more research?

Fight for himself, or within his rights to make an aesthetic choice, call it what you want, it was Dennis' deal. He had no room to subsequently complain about it, and there's no evidence that he did. And ironically Dennis was the one given the job of telling Brian the track "Surf's Up" was going to be on the LP despite Brian's preference that it not be. But then despite Brian's reservations, he reportedly contributed an arrangement suggestion to the new SU vocal bits. And Dennis having pulled his tracks reacted by enthusiastically promoting the album. So this whole saga is more twisted than the average person could ever imagine. But if we can focus on the subject at hand, I'd think those of us with a good knowledge of the working patterns and tendencies of the Wilson boys should not be surprised Dennis didn't submit the WIBNTLA track for the next LP...or the next LP etc... That wasn't gonna happen. But despite what Dennis did, it does seem more than a bit wrong that the band let such a stone classic slip away. If it had been a Brian composition do you think there's any way it would not have been rammed down out throats? That's why Rieley's assessment falls in line with my understanding of the general group vibe. Dennis was not a priority. Is this song more evidence he should have been? Let's let the board decide.

Oh, I think we all know Dennis wasn't the priority. Absolutely. Al himself has said that.

And of course you shouldn't do more research. I fully respect your knowledge of the subject.

But Dennis had space for between 2 and 4 songs on each album from Friends through to Holland. So if other band members were jealous (and with Mike of course that's entirely believable) then he still wasn't exactly being sidelined.

He was entirely within his rights to take his bat and ball and go home with this album. They were his songs after all. But I don't think it is realistic to think the other guys would have fought for these tunes. They fought for Brian's because they wanted to sell more albums. But including songs with a Dennis Wilson writing credit was no guarantee of that at the time as evidenced by the flop albums they had just suffered.

Jon, do you think we will ever get more Dennis material from the archives? There is "Carry Me Home" and "I'm Going Your Way" (which, from the bootlegs, would greatly benefit from a new mix) for starters.

Great points, Jon, they make sense both empirically and intuitively. And let's not forget what the atmosphere was like in the time frame surrounding the "Surf's Up sessions": even by BB standards, this was a time fraught with concern. In America, the BBs were struggling mightily to shed the albatross of their image in the counterculture that had come to dominate the pop music scene in America. While they were getting some endorsements from "hip" folks in the first half of '71 (playing with the Dead, Dylan's "they're f*ckin' good, man..."), the fact remained that Sunflower had tanked in the US along with each and every single pulled from it.

There was about as much on the line as there possibly could be at this time, so the tensions had to be high. Despite Reiley (and possibly because of him in some instances), factionalization increased. Bruce's open dislike for Reiley could not be contained as they moved beyond the success of the SU release into a subsequent LP (CATP) where he was completely unrepresented and pretty much rebelled against the direction that CATP had taken (no fan of "Mess of Help" can be found living in his Montecito manshun!!). Dennis sliced up his hand, couldn't drum for at least a couple of years, and Brian entered his most problematic period--so, for better or worse, Carl and Reiley retooled the band. Most everyone seems to be satisfied with that live band at this remove in time, and it's clear that the effort to position the group more toward the prevailing zeitgeist helped shore them up: they may not have had any hits, but they'd gotten past the stigma that threatened to stop them dead in their tracks in '69-'70.

But in early '71, none of that had happened, and while Dennis had been writing a lot of impressive stuff for the past several years, none of it had proven to be a catalyst to bring the BBs out of the wilderness. (To be fair, nothing had managed to do that as yet.) There was clearly a great deal of flailing around going on, and the ground must have been shifting quite a bit (and rather rapidly at that).

And let's not forget that the "jealousy" directed at Dennis was coming from another source as well--from the fact that he'd been cast in Two-Lane Blacktop, which was released right in the middle of this time frame.

I think where the Beach Boys really lost their way, beginning, in my opinion, when Sunflower flopped, and continuing for the rest of their career, is that their string of failures get to them to the extent that they forgot an absolute cardinal rule - make the best album you can, and let the public follow. The whole semi-cynical idea of trying to create the illusion of Brian involvement to build publicity, plus all the petty internal power struggles, got in the way of putting out the best album they could. And once you stop working at your best, stop focusing first and foremost on the music, you're cutting off your nose to spite your face, because people can tell when you're not at your best; they smell blood. In my opinion, it's often easier for a lesser band to do well working at their very best than for a great band that's letting crap get in the way of the music, even if the great band's mediocre music is better than the lesser bands best work. People can just feel it. The fact that Carl or Brian or Al or Mike or Bruce didn't stand up and say: this song has to come out because it's frickin fantastic, because we want the best album we can make, is so sad. So sad, but not remotely surprising. 

I just asked this in the "would Surf's Up have been the greatest" thread, but I want to ask again here since if anyone would know, it would be Jon I imagine: do we know exactly what songs Dennis expected to be on the album before he pulled them? And particularly, what is the evidence, or lack there of, of Lady being included? (It always seemed like a strange fit to me, personally.) I'm assuming Sound of Free wasn't under consideration, despite making it into many board member's alt. Surf's Up playlists - is this accurate?

Three more questions: Do we know anything about Dennis's preferred sequence, other than Wouldn't It Be Nice to Live Again going last? Did Dennis feel that the song Surf's Up shouldn't be included, either because he felt it was wrong to disrespect Brian's wishes, despite Brian's eventual decision to work on the tag? Or because he felt that band should be looking forward, and not backwards? Or did he just want his song last, and Surf's Up elsewhere on the album? And finally, do we have any evidence about whether or not Feet or Student Demonstration Time were replacements for the Dennis songs, or did the group just originally expect a longer album?

Any answers to any of these would be very appreciated if they exist! It can be so hard to sort out fact from well supported rumor from spurious rumor from opinions sometimes.

It's sad to think of Dennis' stellar talent and its potential to shape the band's identity being thwarted by any kind of petty circumstances or envy, as well as his own mercurial, uncompromising nature. Jealousy aside, interesting that he and Carl would have even had a power struggle about album structure between them in the aftermath of the vacuum that was left after Brian's withdrawal from the primary leadership role after Smile, didn't realize that their relationship had that kind of dynamic to it. It has always seemed like Carl was the clear 2nd-stringer on the depth chart to Brian, anointed as his successor (at least in the late '60s) and Dennis went along with that.

Ironic that, in hindsight, Dennis' emotive music fit the model that was more in the vanguard of sensitive early '70s singer-songwriter-type material. They were self-consciously seeking hipness at that juncture (DGNTW and SDT) and they undoubtedly saw in Dennis' music the real deal, effortlessly achieved and without being contrived. Odd that these jealousies would have come to the fore right at this time, when he had made major contributions to the preceding album and would to the next one (perhaps they were critically short of material for CATP). Perhaps SU, with it's renowned Smile-era centerpiece, had a more high-profile launch, as their live career was taking off, and there was more vying for power as their '70s identity (pre-Endless Summer) was taking shape. As we know, the jealousy continued and even reached a peak with POB and the potential for a solo career taking off.

With the inclusion of Dennis' tunes SU would have had such an incredible balance between some of all three brothers' best, deepest work, along with arguably Bruce's best band effort in Disney Girls, and it's a really unfortunate lost opportunity. When you think of all the moody and magnificent tracks that would have comprised it, with perhaps the omission of SDT and Feet, SU would have been a dense forest of introspection, too much of it for some tastes, but undeniably powerful.

Wish I'd seen the few previous posts that were made while I was writing this, they cover some of the same ground. Oh well.....

Nothing is exactly clear cut in the BB's history of picking tracks for their post '67 LP's, but I think its been stated here many times, and is fairly well accepted among people with what info is available that Dennis' tracks specifically recorded and submitted for Surf's Up were WIBNTLA and 4th of July. They had not been mixed and mastered, and they each had a little bit of polishing to be done, as with his Holland tracks Dennis probably would have left the clean-up to Carl, or would have done it in collaboration with Carl. These decisions on sequencing probably occurred while this work was being planned. I highly doubt Lady was considered, as it had already seen release as a European Dennis solo side.

Regarding DW's suggested sequence, from what I've been told he wanted WIBNTLA to follow Till I Die and to close the LP. I've also heard he suggested that Surf's Up be the album opener. I think its a good bet Feet or SDT would have been the ones to be left out if Carl and Dennis had reached a consensus. But again this is all very speculative, the route the BB's took to finalizing track inclusion, sequence and getting over the label approval hurdle is always one of those "depends on who you're talking to" kind of things, because a lot of people put in their two-cents, and the pattern of things being in constant flux was definitely the case once Brian wasn't taking responsibility for such choices anymore.

Thanks for taking the time to give such thoughtful responses Jon.

I am just surprised that there isn't a WIP track sheet in someone's archives.

God, this is so very, very, very true. And you see it infect the group's albums up to the one put out last year. Not because it didn't have great things on it, because it very much did, but because the guys decided it had to have certain "types" of songs on it. And thus, you don't have a full-album suite about the arc of a man's life, which might have been Brian's best single-album statement since Pet Sounds. Instead you have some of it. And Spring Vacation. And then they need it out before the tour, so no time to polish or rethink.

And in the 90s, they punt on putting out an amazing Brian-led reunion record because they -- well, no one can quite say. But they preferred to do Stars and Stripes, because it was easy, and they didn't have to work around Brian's issues or collaborators. And of course there are albums where they did try like the dickens -- BB85 and LA and Holland come to mind -- but those instances are outweighed by all of the shoddy decisions.

Thanks for the reply, DB - a great perspective - my initial thoughts were along this line, I was curious if there was a single event that may have caused the canning.  For a guy like Dennis, the distance travelled between 71 and 77 was vast to say the least, so it's sort of more suprising he didn't shelve River Song along the way.


My thanks for your thoughts, MB - in my haste, I clearly did not consider how something so simple, real and human would have an effect on Dennis's attitude to the song.  We know how much emotion and passion Dennis put into his words and music, and it's easy to see why you wouldn't want to go back there.

Thanks again for the posts - A

Other than the group keeping Dennis' songs off of the albums, I basically agree with what everybody has been saying. And, not only because of the surfacing of "(Wouldn't It Be Nice To) Live Again", but all of these other previously unreleased treasures, something is becoming all the more obvious.

It's been discussed in other threads, though not as thoroughly as it should, but, The Beach Boys, more than any other group I can think of, desperately needed a manager when they signed with Reprise in 1969. And I don't mean a figurehead who simply oversaw the bookings, PR, and finances. They needed a mentor, a strong personality, a knowledgeable person - musically - who could see the big picture and the small details, somebody who could see through all the craziness and cut through the bullsh--. Now, before you call naive, yes, I understand who we were dealing with here. You had a group of money hungry, irresponsible, addicts who could be very stubborn. But, they did employ or allow certain people "into the circle" throughout their career. They just never found the right one. And, as was alluded to, it is still going on today.

Yes, the stories and circumstances are extremely complicated, but just listen to the stuff that DIDN'T come out. As much as you love hearing this music, another part pisses you off! :o

Jon, thanks for taking the time to respond and provide some cool details.

While I knew Dennis would get fidgety/bored with sessions for other people's material.  (Despite what I've read or watched) I didn't realise/click to the idea he would hit a wall and want to move on when laying down his material from this period, so thanks for the reminder.

It's frustrating to hear that no-one had Dennis's back when it came to track choice - and equally frustrating to hear the "Dennis Wilson - boy, we didn't realise what a talent he was" comments that get dragged out by the survivors from time to time - but whatever.  Finally, thanks to you and AGD for keeping us interested in this song, and Dennis's cannon - it's great to hear this beautifully presented version at last - cheers - A

Something I noticed...

Cuddle Up:

WIBNTLA:

Just a suggestion... I think it's possible that between Barbara, WIBNTLA and Cuddle Up Dennis had certain musical intentions om common... And After Cuddle Up was finalized and released he turned the page.

Life-affirming.



And life is good.

This song is good that I don't want to believe Mike was against putting it on the WOTS compilation.

He can't be that sick in the head.

Very enlightening post. It seems to me that the biggest problems the band had, back to SMiLE, was an inability to finish things and later on, too much commercial calculation and too little artistic statement.

That was a best of volume 2 though and didn't have any unreleased songs on it. I'm not saying this was Mike's thinking at all but albums shouldn't be released with only 1 unreleased song on them. It's right that it was saved for this type of compilation.

Oh, come on! Mike praised Dennis' songwriting talents on stage. I tried to find my post where I pointed out a YouTube video where he does so, but I couldn't find my post in an adequate time frame, I wrote too many. No reason to say Mike's envy is believable, the others' isn't.

You are right. I shouldn't have singled him out.

Especially it seems from reports at the time that all of the band members had petty jealousies against each other. Even being jealous of Bruce when he received acclaim for performing The Nearest Faraway Place at concerts for example.

I haven't seen those reports, but it is absolutely plausible. Jealousy is part of the human nature, so all of the six are susceptible to jealousy, including Mike, but not necessarily more than the others. Maybe, but we can't take it for granted.

For those who are interested in, the MIC version is different from mine. Both are identical until 3.36 but the "jam section" is totally different and, to be honest, better in the MIC version (in particular, there is no flute on my version). My version looks like definely a demo.

Thanks for the comparison notes! I was going to post, and was curious as to whether or not the two versions were the same, and if not, what exact differences might exist? Very interesting!

I once did the math and am almost sure that on the 68-73 studio era dennis was the second member of the band best represented with more songwriting credits after brian.

"My version"?? To my knowledge it has never ever been booted...(?) What boot is the "demo" on??

beachboys_fr bought a demo CD off of ebay which was an early version of The Warmth of the Sun CD that included WIBNTLA - apparently it's a mix that doesn't include the flute.

That was...

...mind-blowing.

The best 4 minutes and 41 seconds ever.

Dennis, you magnificent bastard ;D

Man, this song gets better and better with each listen.

Still contend that the last 90 seconds are the best part.

Sorry to sound like an ass, but given his description, it's not a demo, but an alternate mix.

Interesting, though. I'm sure it was being mixed back then with "It's gonna be on a hits package" in mind, thus why it's shorter etc. I don't mean to sound ungrateful, but I'd have really preferred the whole thing have been released. If Dennis meant for the song to fade like this right where it does, then fair enough, but shoot - like I said in the other thread, you really start to "feel" the end section right as it's fading out.

Hopefully some day. ;(

This would be my guess as well (i.e. an alternate mix). Though, I do find it odd that CL's flute would be mixed out of the "other" version when it's always been something that's been noted as one of the highlights of the song from those who had heard it in its entirety (e.g. at a Beach Boys fan convention-listening session).

Also, Eric's version seems to be roughly the same length as the new release -- his is 4:33 -- so I'd reckon that it's faded at about the same place as this one is. FWIW, and so people don't have to hunt through the old posts....here's his original description of his TWOTS version:


"Total time is 04:33. There is a short intro of 00:06 with piano as the main instrument. Then Dennis sings alone. At 00:33 background vocals begin. I can't confirm if it is Brian and Carl or not. At 00:39, drums begin. The same structure is repeated once. After 02:35, there are mainly harmonies and from 03:44 to the end, Dennis repeats the same sentence. He doesn't really sing; he almost speaks. The averall sound is not perfect but quite good."


http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,3562.msg361475.html#msg361475

Also, looking at Eric's original comments while listening to the new release, and not wading through all of the earlier posts in this thread, has it been noted whether or not any of the original instrumental tracks have been replaced/augmented? That is, he describes drums coming in where they don't exactly come in here. Also, kind of interesting how the drum kit/track is mixed wide across the entire stereo spectrum on this new release.

Can you make any other observations, Eric? Does what's common between the two mixes/versions sound exactly the same to your ears?

TIA!

With all of the evidence presented above, it's now apparent that Mike felt the missing flute performance by his old friend and fellow TMer Charlie Lloyd was a deal-breaker and refused to approve it's release on Warmth of the Sun.

So we can all thank Mike Love for insisting on the flute being mixed back into the song -- thus allowing Dennis' original vision to be fully realized with Made in California. This was obviously the cause of the long delay.

I really doubt it's a new drum track or any new instruments, they know the fanbase would frown upon that kind of stuff (generally!).  I imagine it's just a different mix they had at the time that had some differences in stylistic choices.

What's kind of interesting (to me anyway...lol) is that a droning kick comes in at about the 0:32 mark on the new release, while the rest of the full-blown kit comes in at around the 0:48 mark. Whereas, on Eric's version he simply notes the "drums" coming in at the 0:39 mark. Thus, I'm really curious as to what is exactly on his version. Namely, whether or not there are no drums/percussion/kick at all up to the 0:39 mark on his mix.

I agree that it would be awesome to hear the "complete" version, but in the defense of the guys in The Beach Boys and the compilers of the set, apparently Dennis himself was the one who thought the "official" version of the song ends where it does. This is according to AGD of course, but yeah. So I think it's right that this version is the way it is. However, now that it's out, maybe on another collection they can issue the "longer, complete version" and therefore count that as an unreleased track. Wouldn't doubt that it's not part of BRI's thinking right now.

One thing I do have to say: those back-and-forth flutes annoy me...

My only thought would be that, without actually hearing what took place musically on the multitrack after the fade, we should probably use caution in terming it a "complete version" (your correct quotes duly noted) -- mostly out of fear of that term somehow catching on.  That is, it may simply be "stuff" that was captured with the record button on. I reckon there's good reason why it fades where it does on *both* of the noted mixes. As also noted, some of which have already been expressed by those in the know.

That said, I love that tag so much that I too wouldn't mind hearing it go on for another 20-30 seconds or so, and/or perhaps as a looonnnng fadeout into the ether, (of course, assuming it was musically usable/good). : )

I reckon we could refer to them as "The Shorter Complete Version" and "The Longer Complete Version". :D

And exactly how can 'your' version be a demo when the first three and a half minutes are identical to the released version ?  Plainly your inhouse CDR used a rough mix for TWOTS with some faders down on the tag and what's on MiC has been remixed and edited.

There's nothing on the released version that wasn't on the original 1971 multitrack.

Cool! Thanks for confirmation, Andrew!

Such a majestic track. Worth every damned second of the wait.


Though, I have to add, I'm also feeling a bit melancholy for old friends, no longer with us, who didn't get a chance to hear this one. So grateful that I did.

Here's a really dumb rumour I read the other day. Did you guys know that apparently the reason the price for MIC is as steep as it is, is down to Mike Love insisting on an exceptionally high royalty rate for WIBNTLA?

This came hot from the Hoffman board where ill informed Myke bashers are legion.

Thanks for the response, that's very helpful! I think Lady was listed as a song left off at the last minute in an older incarnation of the wikipedia article for Surf's Up, and that that is the source of the persistent rumor that it was almost included.

And I really hate the tag - too bad it doesn't fade before the silly lounge piano chord. What a waste of CD space it would have been had they let that noodling go on even longer! ;D

So there's something for everyone! :)

That would be the board where the founder claimed Capitol were prepared to pull the entire Smile Sessions box because FANS ACTUALLY ASKED THEM FOR INFORMATION ABOUT BUYING IT ?  ;D

It's also the board where you could start a thread about an obscure Peruvian nose flute band and it would somehow become a thread about The Beatles.

http://ultimateclassicrock.com/beach-boys-made-in-california/

Not noteworthy,  along with all the other unreleased stuff.   ???

I'd expect nothing less from a site called ULTIMATECLASSICROCK

I got banned for something stupid like introducing myself. Hoffman actually took the time to email me personally and chastise me. Still makes me chuckle.

(http://judygarlandnews.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/steve-hoffman-1.jpg)

Is there a problem here, Mr. Newcombe?


ULTIMATE CLASSIC RAWKKK!!!

For introducing yourself???

I hope you cherish that email from the big guy!

I can hear 'Cuddle Up' in there obviously and a riff from Steamboat there too.

Great track!  Time to re-order Surf's Up using some ideas from the other thread :)

In other words, exactly like this board, eh?

I love the song, although it does have a lot of Cuddle Up in it in places.

Dennis was singing so well from 69-71. Be With Me, Slip on Through, Forever, Sound of Free, Lady, WIBNTLA all have great vocals. Damn what he could have done if he could have controlled his addictions.


I said this before, but when we hear about how Dennis and Carl wanted the group to be more contemporary instead of oldies-oriented in the mid-'70s, it drives me crazy to think of the opportunity lost here. I think the one chance the Beach Boys had to really make a big comeback was the Surf's Up album.

Sunflower was terrific, but the group was still thought of as "surfing Doris Days." By the time Surf's Up came out, Jack Rieley had rebuilt their "cred" and the addition of Surf's Up as a track generated a lot of interest. Surf's Up with 4th of July and WIBNTLA on it may not have been a grand slam, but it would have a been a three-run double. Instead, it was more than a bunt, it was a solid RBI single, but it could have been the true smash they needed with two more killer tracks.

I just wish Dennis and Carl had flipped a coin and let the winner determine sequencing.

I was thinking.... We could very well be debating here how Sunflower would have sold gazilliosn if it had included Forever, Slip on Through, We Got Time and Got to Know the Woman.... If Dennis had withdeawn his tracks in THAT album.  ;)

Going in the other direction, is there anything on the multitrack that isn't on the released version?

Interesting question.  I would say that that's a possibility, however, I doubt there's much of significance.  I've heard a few alternate mixes and though it was 6 years ago, I can't remember anything unusual.  So I would say it's pretty much all there.  But tragically, I never got to sit in Mark's studio and preview the multis...

I got into my time machine, went back, and found that they had indeed flipped a coin, with Carl winning the toss...

I wrote that badly. I meant that Dennis' songs are definitely on the album, but the toss winner gets to determine where.

Not a Peruvian nose flute band but could of played on vege-tables

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOmcew2DtTE

True. Dennis was writing some great stuff but nothing other than several albums of Brian back to a full return to form could have dragged the group out the trenches.

Including Dennis's two songs probably wouldn't have helped sales particularly.

It's interesting that in spite of the fine music that Dennis wrote for the group, it was mostly issued on albums that sold badly (Holland excepted). From a purely musical point of view even Al did a lot more to help the group's record sales during their career...

I think Dennis buried that trend by outselling two Beach Boys albums (MIU, LA Light) with POB. Your comment "From a purely musical point of view even Al did a lot more to help the group's record sales during their career..." Please explain that theory to us.

Not a theory. Just a simple look at the facts. Al contributed Cottonfields, Lady Lynda and Come go With Me which were all big hits for the group. California Saga was also a single and a minor hit. None of Dennis's songs with the group were hits and, as I said, with the group his songs featured on albums that generally didn't sell well.

The UK loved a bit of Jardine.

So wait...you use the criteria that the albums didn't sell well (which they didn't in the US, but DID in the UK and Europe)...and then you back up your point by using two UK hit singles as examples. Huh? The albums with Dennis songs sold great in the UK and Europe (20/20 went to #3 in the UK, Sunflower was top 30 or better in a bunch of countries)...was Cottonfields a big hit in the US? Was Lady Lynda a "big hit" in the US, oh yeah #39 Adult Contemporary?  Granted "Come Go With Me" was a decent hit, but it came from an album that sold half of what POB did. I think you stumbled on your own logic there. Are we in agreement with the fact that both DW's and Al's songs were on albums that sold poorly in the US, and sold well in Europe? And I'll agree...Al did have nice success with two singles in the UK. BTW Dennis had a #16 LP in the UK...higher than any BB's solo record other than BWPS. And one fact remains, POB in its two incarnations has sold over 400,000 copies worldwide RIAA confirmed. I'm thinking Postcard From California might be a little short of that.

Still soaking this in today. It really was worth every second of the wait (IMHO).


The weird thing...is even though we all had the stellar Adam/Evie version burned into our brains (or the Boyd piano recording) -- which in some ways is unfair to any "surprise element" that comes with listening to an original recording for the first time...in reverse -- the whole vibe here kind of caught me off-guard, even though I always said that I could fully imagine the track in my head. So ethereal. And while I must confess that I miss some of the thick harmonies of Adam's version, and would've loved to heard this layered with more of the BB's voices, the whole thing sounds like a lovely dream.

Is it Dennis's "best song" ever or "best vocal" ever? I don't know. It never really had to be that for me to still be a winner, and it's always going to be hard to to top stuff like Be With Me, Celebrate The News, Lady and Slip On Through for me (all great songs AND great vocal performances IMO), but it's certainly right up there at the top, and easily the biggest crown jewel to come out of the well in some time. I love those double-tracked, higher, sustained whole notes. Dennis was definitely singing for "all his life" here. In some alternate universe, it might be fun to dream about what other things might've been added to it before, and had it been released. As it stands, it's still pretty damned-well perfect.


Also, I gotta say, considering that he simply heard this over the phone a couple of times, it's amazing how much Adam nailed the arrangement on his cover. Even the slight differences seem like they could've always been there.

It's a grower, I'll say that. I like it more & more as I keep replaying it. :)

Sorry Jon but I think we are talking at tangents here. I agree that Dennis's album did fine. Which is why I stressed that I was talking about the group's record sales. Not sure why you are mentioning Postcard from California as it obviously wasn't a Beach Boys release. Of course Dennis was more successful as a solo artist than Al has been. Nobody has ever suggested anything different.

What I'm saying really isn't controversial. In the U.K. the group had hit albums to varying degrees throughout this period but whether Dennis had any songs on the albums didn't seem to particularly affect this. Friends did worse than Wild Honey and Sunflower (Cottonfields being its hit single anyway) did worse than Surf's Up. 20/20 did very well but I would suggest that the inclusion of 3 hit singles including a number one hit had a lot more to do with that than Dennis's contributions.

Also, I think we would all agree that it would have been nice if Dennis had been represented on In Concert. But he wasn't and it still sold well.

And you said it yourself as well. Dennis contributed to LA and it didn't sell as well as POB.
 

I agree bringing the solo work into is out of context, but i think you got that ball rolling in your post. Anyway, I think we can agree that all of them were talented, all of them contributed to major hits. To what degree each guy contributed is an arguable subject.

Just listened to it today. The song is just beautiful. Dennis's vocals, the arrangement, the whole song is just...wow. Not sure I can really put it into words. Just the first few seconds and I knew it was going to be great.

I think his main point is that Dennis didn't write or produce any hits, and Al did. Which is true. Al arguably had better commercial instincts.

But that has nothing to do with the quality of Dennis's work, one way or another. Tom Waits will never sell as many records as Miley Cyrus, but that doesn't prove anything about the worth of their respective oeuvres.

... Although certain Mike Love boosters may disagree on this point.  ;D

Very few moments can top my hearing this song for the first time.

Absolutely true. But the post I was replying to earlier asserted that if WIBNTLA had been included on Surf's Up then it would have been a massive album. So my point was that there is nothing in the group's history that backs that up.

And ironically...Al has told me directly, and I think has said in print, that Dennis encouraged him to push Cottonfields into a more "country" direction than he originally intended, and also helped him with the arrangement of Lady Lynda. Interesting.

Don't recall anyone saying that SU (the LP) would have been "massive" as a result of WIBNTLA. Don't have the time to go back into the posts to look, apologies for that.

What I said (around page 6, IIRC) was that I felt WIBNTLA had a shot to be an FM hit had it been included on the LP back in 1971. That's based on having listened to FM radio in that era. My recollection was that four cuts from the LP got some FM airplay in the fall of '71: SU, LPR, FF, SDT. Two of these were singles in the US; LPR's second issue as a single occurred as the SU album reached its peak on the charts, but didn't do anything for the LP. LPR wasn't probably going to work in either AM or FM formats: it was a "tweener." There wasn't really an AM song on the LP.

WIBNTLA might well have gotten a lot of FM play at the time, because it fits in more with that format than any of the other cuts. (The next best song for that, IMO, was FF, and I did hear it a number of times on FM in the fall/winter of '71.) It seemed that SU was played on FM as an "album cut" prior to its release as a single (which must have been a "hail Mary" on WB's part, hoping that the prestige of the song would give it airplay).

Of course, it's all moot...but I can easily see the song getting solid FM airplay and making a solid contribution to the overall change in direction that was being put into play. That direction continued with five uptempo numbers on CATP, and FM radio might have been more receptive to some of those cuts with a song like WIBNTLA out there in the zeitgeist. Up-tempo cuts were the BBs' bread and butter in the 60s, they weren't likely to score with anything else (and they never did, wonderful as many of the ballads are). And while WIBNTLA isn't the usual "up-tempo" song by any means, it's got the type of groove that worked a lot on FM--a ballad with a bit of blues and a hypnotic rock solo.

Far more important to the ongoing situation that the BBs were grappling with in 71-72 are two items, in inverse order of significance: Dennis' hand injury, which forced changes to the band in a number of ways and pushed him away from the core creative direction; and Brian's deeper descent into depression and drugs. I don't think WIBNTLA solves any of that, but some FM success might have left the band more positively disposed to Dennis' work.

WIBNTLA has one of the best tags in the entire BB's discography. Starting from the part where Carl's solo line comes in.. then the flute.. that piano fill.. and the final section fade. Wow. Perfect.



Yeah, but who twerks better?  :lol

I always felt that Dennis gained some creative control when he hurt his hand. Like once he wasn't stuck behind the drums he could express himself at the piano, or he could stand up front and just sing with the guys,  and even Mike thought his songs were beautiful, so I always imagined it was Dennis that kept his own songs off the records. But, yeah, a hit would've been amazing!

Cottonfields wasn't really written by Al, nor was Come Go With Me, and the catchy intro to Lady Lynda was certainy not written by Al. California has also been comapred to a reworking of California Girls. Now if you talk about as lead vocalists, I would say Al contributed to the sales most greatly in Help Me Rhonda, wheras Dennis' would be Do You Wanna Dance.

Nah, but he produced most of them, and oversaw the vocal arrangements and sang lead. Let's give the man some credit. Phil Spector didn't write his songs either, but he sure knew something about making hit records.

Who produced WIBNTLA?

Sorry, I wasn't referring to you. What you say about WIBNTLA getting some airplay is perfectly possible.

True but these songs wouldn't have been recorded if Al hadn't suggested/produced them. Therefore he was responsible for them being hits.

If Brian had sung Help Me Rhonda and Do You Wanna Dance then they would still have been huge hits imo.

Fair enough!

Dennis.

Agreed

No issues, no worries! But what I can tell you is that I sure would love to have heard this track in 1971!!!  :smokin

I fell into a trance during the solo. Honestly one of my best Beach Boys moments.

I really love the guitar in this track. Was it played by Carl?

I'm right with you drbeachboy....that's how I felt initially upon my first hearing it a few days ago.  My reaction was definitely positive when I first heard it but definitely not the overwhelming love everyone else is expressing.   What are your thoughts about the song after stewing over it a few days?

I gave it another proper listen today and I keep finding new things to like about it.  But I really couldn't help trying to struggle with the hype that had existed for this song and now people confirming that is indeed Dennis' true masterpiece.  I may eventually agree with that...but just not yet.

I had to go back and listen to "Make it Good" and "Cuddle Up" off "Carl and The Passions."  To me, WIBNTLA fits as a little suite with these two tunes.  The similarities to "Cuddle Up" are very clear.  "Cuddle Up" was always a favorite for me and I always believed it hit all the right spots and I think Dennis nailed everything about that song.  It's huge, majestic and extremely emotional.  WIBNTLA definitely challenges it. 

So, I'm still processing the song and trying to work through how I feel about it.

As much as I like the coda, I think fading out just as it starts makes the song a bit tighter.

I am still at the point where I still agree with Carl. Short of Surf's Up not being used, then yes, a great song to end the album. As for the song itself, I like the ending as is. Very 1971-ish. I made a playlist using

DGNTW
4th of July
LPR
DG
SDT

FF
LAT
ADITLOAT
TID
(WIBNT) LA

Works as a very nice, but moody album.

Totally agree. Could the coda been what started the beef with Carl. Dennus wanted the coda left on?
The coda just sounds like an impromptu little jam. It's cool but doesn't fit.

It definitely would have worked in terms of sequencing to have a song called Live Again follow 'Til I Die, assuming 'Til I Die would still be the penultimate track.  Though I've always loved Surf's Up as a closer.

My review: it's a very interesting and unique track. Very glad it's on the box set and I like it. Although I can't imagine it being on surfs up. Where would it fit? And it really doesn't sound like a beach boys track at all. But bottom line is that WIBNTLA is in no way a lost classic. Sorry folks. Good, but not great. You're Still a Mystery on the other hand... Wow...

Like most Dennis songs, it could have had tighter lyrics. "High on a hill, making love," is a bad lyric and has aged just as well as those in Student Demonstration Time.

Furthermore, like Cuddle Up, the title just seems like a phrase used to add the bare minimum of interest to an otherwise faceless love song. Not that I don't like the chorus...

So I got back from the pub, after a glorious eight or so pints, put on the unreleased D/W gem we've all been waiting to hear, and find

a/ The BVs have been buried. If I didn't know better, I'd have guessed the person who mixed this had never heard the Beach Boys before. All the focus is on the lead vocal, to the expense of everything else, and that's just not how a BB production is meant to work. Where the vocals play off each other at the start of the fade....you should be able to HEAR what's going on, like the end of Surfs Up, or Til I die, Leaving this Town.

b/ The long held notes? Auto Tune. And if someone is being smart and denying the use of 'Auto Tune' itself, then fine, but there are other products of different names which have exactly the same affect. It's obvious on Sherry She Needs me- why would there be any doubt that it'd be used across the board.

Sure, unless you're in the studio looking at the plugin chain, you can't say for sure, but I know my way around pro tools, and that sure sounds like AT to me. Maybe they think they've done something smart like tuning the reverb returns rather than the actual lead or something, but it's still noticable. They've made one of the most beautiful vocal tones ever sound like a robot.



As to my general manners in the face of such disappointment. 'Mikie' -

"You're really something else, aren't ya?  I'd hate to cross paths with you if you were any more vindictive.  We'd find out really quick who's head would end up in the toilet.  Hint hint: It wouldn't be mine.  ;D"

Forgive me for not caring that 'someone on the internet' thinks they could 'have me'.

For me saying I'd contemplate flushing Mark Linetts head down the toilet is a vaguely amusing (to me) way of expressing my disappointment at the awful job he's done on this box set. No apologies you brought the beef you despicable old git.

Auto tune, digital reverb, crazy panning on sail plane song? sh*t mastering? We've had final confirmation that the Beach Boys should leave box sets to the Bootleggers.

And Disney Boy:

As if I care what some fucking c*** on the fucking internet thinks of me. Why don't you fucking f*** yourself, you fucking c***.

Good enough for a permanent ban, do we think? I'm done with this nest of fucking pricks ;)

You either had too many pints or too few.

I think I would have needed at least twice as many to not have immediately noticed the rubbish mix and auto tune.

Was definitely at prime number of pints to have zero tolerance for Mikie and his passive agressive bullshit. Jesus what a c***. I hope he's nicer in real life.

*awaits ban hammer*

As someone who is highly attuned (no pun inteneded) to pitch correction, I have to say I can't hear it on WIBNTLA. Whereabouts in the track are you hearing it?

Every long note almost. I wish I couldn't hear it, but I can, and it's hugely, hugely disappointing. I can just about ignore it now I've had a week to get used to it, but it rankles for sure.

Who ever sZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZD

Anyway- if no one else can hear it, I'm happy for you, and honestly don't care whether I'm written off as a troll or not. I've run it past a few fellow engineer types, who share my suspicions...

I wonder whether playing this onto a too hot domestic reel to reel with a wobble issue and a hissy left channel might restore some mystique. Hmmm

There's no autotune on WIBNTLA. You're just reveling in saying you're disappointed and looking for things to moan about.

Go f*** yourself you pissy little bitch.

I don't give a bollock what some internet c*** thinks.

Didn't you just get banned for saying that a week ago?

I like it although I think it would have benefitted from more complex vocals at the end of the song. But I think My Love Lives On surpasses it. Personal opinion but this one is restrained, thoughtful, profound and emotional. I like Farewell My Friend but My Love Lives On would have made a good alternative to be played at Dennis' funeral IMO.

It surprises me that Wouldn't It Be Nice to Live Again gets so much attention now that we can now hear both of them. About 15 pages re WITBNA and 2 re My Love Lives On when I last looked.

I did. I'm searching for the word that will lead to a permanent banning though. What's worse than c*** on the schoolyard profanity league table?

This place is ludicrous. I'm just taking things to their logical extreme.

1/ I make a joke about flushing someone's head down the toilet

2/ Receive ridiculous 'if this were real life I'd kick your ass' threat from 'Mikie'

3/ Call Mikie a c***

4/ Get banned

5/ Pissy little bitch Disney Girl has a go

6/ Call Disney Girl a c***

7/ Get banned.

I mean...ffs. There's no respect for anyone elses opinion round here, no debate, just a bunch of fucking Gnomes knee deep in sh*t arguing over which one's tallest.  f*** it.

Whoa, its time for you to mediate....

Internet tough guy is tough.

 :lol

Yep, this little piss-ant hides behind a computer and calls everyone and anyone out. This piss-ant is definitely off his meds. Mods, honor his wish and permanently BAN his ass. Thank you!

Wow!  I finally got to hear the song in question and was going to chime in (yeah, a little late as usual) about my very positive thoughts, but apparently there's a nut job barricaded behind his computer!  I'll let the SWAT team come in and clean up the mess before I go any further here!

Another derailment in SmileySmile.net, oh my! I doubt you'll find a thread in here that hasn't been derailed. So, get us back on topic and let us know what you think about it. :)

I wonder what the extended outro sounds like. I hope it comes out on the 2033 box set  :)

Sounds like someone can't handle his booze. Stick to the shandys mate.

I wonder what Fantasy Mike Love would say about the imaginary auto tune on WIBNTLA?

Whatever he would say, he would resolve the argument.

He'd say "it's a damn shame".

Yeah, why can't some people understand that while it's ok to not like a song, or performance, or mix and that it's great to have the opportunity to discuss why it doesn't work for us, etc, but it's not cool to be an ass about it?

With that out of the way, I gotta say that this song is a grower, as someone else stated earlier.  I've been reading the hype the last few weeks, though the voice in the back of my head was telling me to just wait and see.  As you've probably guessed, I've never heard the song before, even when I used to hang out with Bob Hanes.  

My initial reaction on the first listen was...eh, it's ok.  Not bad.  Dennis' songs have always been hit or miss for me.  Forever is, and always will be, my absolute favorite of his.  Songs like Barbara just never worked for me.  I don't think they're bad in any way; they just don't strike a nerve.  After about a half dozen more listens to WIBNTLA, I'm really starting to 'get it'.  It's a beautiful song, great arrangement, great vocal, near-perfect mix from what I can hear.  At this point I put it a close second to Forever.

No pitch correction.  I'm 99.999999% sure.

The long notes are overdubbed, one sustains on the "said", the other goes down.

Probably what you are hearing as pitch correction is the change from solo voice to double tracked voice.

Permabanned internet tough guy is permabanned.

How sad. Another victim of 'autotunanoia'

Haven't got the box yet but every play on You Tube makes me more in awe!

I have now MIC in hands. After having carefully heard WIBNTLA, here is what I’m able to say when comparing this version to "mine". Both are the SAME version (structure, instruments, etc.). The sound is however quite different. In "my version", some instruments are less emphasized (for example, the guitar between 2.34 and 2.58 or the flute around 4.07) and some vocals are more emphasized (for example, the backing vocals between 2.34 and 2.58 and the lead vocal after 3.38).  I think "my version" is a rough (mono) mix.

My thoughts on WIBNTLA:

At first listen, I am in awe.  We hear the title first.  Dennis' voice is picture perfect.  He starts out softly, then builds to an initial climax with rhetorical questions and heartfelt replies.  Now, back to soft lines, dreamy, silky smooth lines with more responses to his questions.  The guitar kicks in followed by his questions and replies.  Flute, percussion and vocal intertwine.  The flute is a butterfly, fluttering about his vision of the future, and it's a bright future for him at this moment in time.

I don't see this as a grower.  It's power is demonstrated in the first seven words.  This song hits hard on first listen, a rare achievement for a relatively slow song.  In no way did the hype downplay the song.  It's even better than I'd expected though my expectations were tempered a bit.  I was hoping for something along the lines of Forever, and that's exactly what we got.  It is its own song but achieves the same granduer of Forever.  We now have Dennis' third masterpiece.  Forever, River Song and Wouldn't it Be Nice to Live Again present the pinnacles of Dennis Wilson's career.  Of course Only With You, All Alone, Slip on Through, Celebrate the News and Sound of Free come close as well.

The Surf's Up album would have been substantially improved with the inclusion of Dennis' songs, especially if his Rumbo work was included as well.  I doubt sales would have been significantly greater but as with almost every Beach Boys release, opportunities were missed, opportunities that were lost on the world for decades.

Thanks to those who have shared WIBNTLA with select people, helping to get it an official release before landing in the hands of bootleggers.  It's a sacred song, full of feeling, yet cerebral.  We don't have many opportunities to experience the sacred at first listen.  Thanks, Dennis.  I only wish it had come out over four decades ago.

I suspect BergenWhitesMousetache is very unhappy about the size of his penis.

Thanks for taking the time to do the comparison. I'm particularly intrigued by the "emphasized backing vocals between 2:34 and 2:58" comment. If you ever do decide to share any or all of your mix, that's one section I'd definitely be interested in hearing. Thanks again, Eric!

Starting enjoy the song a fair bit now after a few listens!!

Was going to ask, what is with the phasiness in the vocal on the sustained 'whoever said goodbyeeee' during the first chorus?  Surely not just a side effect of vocal double tracking?  I guess it could be...anyone else noticed it?

I'm pretty certain it is.

I can't tell, all I can say is that I have a very small car. ;D

Hype or no hype it's one of the best tunes I've ever heard. The BB's are MORONS for not letting Dennis put this on Surf's Up. Awesome song.

Well, Dennis was not FORCED to remove his tracks from Surf's Up; he did it when he and Carl couldn't agree on sequencing. So the blame is Dennis' and his alone.

Yup. I have noticed there is a tendency among BB fans to blame everyone but the person(s) ultimately responsible for their various misadventures.

Going by comments on another recent post, I'm sure a lot of Smiley Smiler's blame Jack Rieley...

Honestly, I've always thought "'Til I Die" followed by "Surf's Up" closing the album was just perfection, I don't think I'd want it any other way.  I wonder why Dennis's songs didn't carry over to the Carl and the Passions album.  I guess he had just moved on from them by that point (I know a lot of people have said that Dennis was a very in-the-moment guy).  But I mean, that album could have benefitted from more material for sure.