The Smiley Smile Message Board

Hey guys, here's the next one....

one album (Pet Sounds) and one (then) non-album single (Good Vibrations)

vs. one album (Revolver), one non-album single (Paperback Writer c/w Rain) and a song released on a comp (Bad Boy).

Now, which band do you think did better in 1966? Look forward to seeing how the result comes out.

In voting, make sure you go only by your personal preference (not the historical significance, critical or commercial success) and only consider then-released tracks/albums  listed above.

Beach Boys win 1966 for me. I love Revolver, but Pet Sounds blows it clean out of the water. Easy year. Easy vote.

The Beach Boys.

Don't have to think about it whatsoever. The boys win. :bw

Finally, I can vote for a group and not feel bad about it! The Beach Boys! To me, '63-'65 were a tie. And that's not me being lazy. It was very, very hard for me to cast my vote one way or the other. Interestingly, the total votes cast for '63-'65 were 49-47 in favor of the Beach Boys. Very close!

Despite being able to confidently vote for the Beach Boys in '66, it was still close. Put Revolver up against any other album ever made and I'm probably going with Revolver. Rain nearly equals Good Vibrations for me and when I add in Paperback Writer and Bad Boy, I'm probably going Beatles (for non-album songs). Still, my connection to the music and lyrics of Pet Sounds is just too great! This might be a good time to dig up that 'favorite collaborator' thread and cast my vote for Tony Asher.

Enjoy this while it lasts...

In 1966, The Beatles released an essential album (although, they have a few) called Revolver. 

However, The Beach Boys also released an essential album (their lone one) called Pet Sounds.

Tough one, but if I play each album front to back, I have to give the nod to Pet Sounds.   

Man, this is a *TOUGH* one. Revolver was one of those seminal albums for me, I got the Capitol US vinyl reissue in 1986 or so before all the UK CD reissues came out, when I was like 12, and it absolutely floored me. I used to record myself on a little shoebox cassette recorder practicing trying to sing along with songs like Here There And Everywhere, and just starting to play and learn guitar, it was one of those albums that helped me learn what I needed to learn about playing music and also the *sounds* on that album...like something as simple as the snare sound on Yellow Submarine, and Ringo's amazing drumming on She Said She Said. Then there was Tomorrow Never Knows, although the documentary Compleat Beatles turned me on to that one even before I had the album.

Then there is the song Rain. Ringo's drumming yet again is off the charts, the overall sound, the way it was recorded, the whole ball of wax. Another prime influence in how I like records to sound to this day.

And Revolver was one album that pointed me in the direction of doing music as a serious thing, actually it was an obsession and I credit Revolver with sustaining that and making it into something I actually ended up doing as a full time gig.

BUT...Pet Sounds...what can I say? That was also a life-changer, and stoked the flames on me wanting to learn *how* did Brian arrange all of that...and it led me to seriously study arranging and production and writing and all that stuff. And Pet Sounds still brings tears to my eyes, no matter how many times I hear it. It has my #1 favorite song of all time Wouldn't It Be Nice, the song perhaps closest to my heart and which I tell anyone is the best song of all time, recording, production, performance, structure, arrangement, writing...the studio version is seriously as good as it gets. Envisioned, created, and made real by a guy in his early 20's with one good ear named Brian Wilson.

Factor in Good Vibrations, and the whole scene surrounding Brian Wilson and a seemingly endless and quirky stream of ideas and grand plans to make the best music out of anyone...Summer into Fall 1966, absolutely one of the most amazing peaks of any self-trained musician in his early to mid 20's, heck of any musician, that exists in the history of pop. Smile...need anything else after that?

And all of these crazy Brian ideas crystallized into a #1 smash hit record. It worked, it hit on all cylinders, and it hit the coveted #1 on the charts even eclipsing The Beatles and other chart powerhouses of that time. It should not have worked because it was and still sounds a little bizarre, not standard pop writing or recording or producing...but it WORKED.

Pet Sounds, Good Vibrations, Wouldn't It Be Nice, the Smile recording sessions...

1966 goes to The Beach Boys and more specific to Brian Wilson. He owned 1966, and his creative visions set the table for future generations of music and musicians. There is no accident or fluke that Pet Sounds and a song like God Only Knows are still regularly topping the best of all time polls and lists and are still alive among two or three generations removed from the original fanbase.

As much as I love and was influenced by Revolver and the Beatles output, as much as I say the year 1966 was *the year*, the BEST year in pop music overall with several dozen examples of releases from '66 to back that up...1966 was Brian's year. And The Beach Boys as the messengers.

If we bring "Smile" into the 1966 discussion, then you have to start bringing "Strawberry Fields Forever", "Penny Lane", and the beginnings of Pepper into it as well.

In terms of released material, this is a year where the BBs can really go toe to toe.

I give the nod to the Beatles because "Revolver" is amazing beginning to end, has a wider array of styles, and is a wholly band-backed statement in terms of writing. With PS, it's a lot of words written by someone outside the band. Great lyrics, no question.

But the Beatles wrote their stuff and, with a few exceptions of session musician overdubs, they play the tracks as well.

Their material feels more like a self contained group statement.

But PS is maybe the first perfect BB album. No filler.

But PS came in the same year that the greatest band ever made what many argue is their greatest album.

Revolver and Abbey Road are my 2 favourite Beatles l.p.s...followed oh so closely by Rubber Soul and then The 'White' album...After that come Help and Sgt Peppers.  And, given all that, the BRITISH version of Revolver is absolutely their best album...at least for me.  Mind you somehow ...[Capital being the capitol arseholes that they were]...3 important songs got ditched on this side of the pond...NO 'And Your Bird Can Sing'.  What!!!  :o  And No I'm Only Sleeping... ^-^ or Dr. Robert. :brian  Paperback Writer is a great little rocker.  And Rain was unique in its own little way...for awhile...until the novelty wore off and dated it.  Still...it ain't enough...not by a LONG shot.

But while Revolver is unique and avant garde and well done and totally special, grown-up and adventurous...it just isn't as musical and timeless and teflon coated and perfect as Pet Sounds.  It's rather a GREAT 'Big Persons' album versus a totally and completely unique classic which still sets standards which should be emulated...if it's possible...[but reach for the stars and maybe you'll break through the stratosphere.]  And ...I'm sorry BUT...the Beatles neither collectively nor individually ever came close to anything as outstandingly fantastic, unique, awe-inspiring or jaw-droppingly unbelievable and ground breaking as Good Vibrations.  They just didn't.  The Beach Boys lapped the Beatles in 1966.  They were and are the runaway winners as their 1966 output not only stands the test of time...it continues to further distance the group and especially Brian from all the rest of the pack by leaps and bounds.  The test of time tells all.

That there was one jerk in the band who just didn't know his place or when to lay off, shut up and just sit the eff back and reap the benefits... ... ...  But we didn't really know any of that until the following year when it began to become quite clear just what a 'vibe' killer he truly was.  [and is.]

Yeah I guess I can delve into why Pet Sounds is #1 in my book:

It is one man’s vision of young life and young love - and this vision is perfectly translated to some of the most beautiful music this world has ever heard. The love songs are beautiful, somber, deep, rockin, classical, baroque. The songs about life make you either question the path you’re currently on or they reaffirm that you’re on the right one. Even Sloop John B can be taken as part of the life message (“this is the worst trip”) - you’re in a place that you really wish you weren’t in. And okay, this record isn’t mostly 4 guys playing their instruments/singing their lines. Instead, this is one man directing an orchestra/band of insane talent. They’re sometimes giving him ideas, but they’re playing his chords, playing whatever instrument he wants them to play - “lets do a theramin solo here”. “I want to hear coke bottle percussion in this song”. I mean he uses an accordion as a main rhythmic instrument in a song that went top-40. This is a guy using every color on the palette. Brian Wilson hears this music in his head (each instrument, each line, each harmony) and Pet Sounds is the record where it all comes out.

I bet most everyone here has related deeply to ‘IJWMFTT’ - the message is one that will speak to a lot of people not even born yet. I mean, I was still 20 or more years away from being born when this was written/recorded, yet when I first heard it it felt like the writer was speaking directly to me. Many of the songs on this record have this power.

And the whole record sounds so warm (both in mono and in stereo) and this warmth makes the entire record sound like one grand cohesive symphony.

Revolver is a favorite of mine. But it doesn’t effect me as personally like Pet Sounds does. I have to say I think ‘Tomorrow Never Knows’ is one of the greatest songs ever created - its something that sounds like it could’ve been recorded 1000 years from now, and I bet in 1000 years it will still sound like something from the future.

Pet Sounds is introspection of the soul at it’s finest. I love that story where Brian takes home Pet Sounds to marylin when he finishes mixing it, and they listen to it and cry. That’s why this record is #1 in my book, it’s pure human soul from the perspective of someone with a heart of gold who is/was misunderstood who finally got all these feelings out into musical form for the world to hear.

Beach Boys/Brian Wilson all the way on this one.

Definitely hands down without doubt BBs win this year. Full stop.

guitarfool, you're absolutely right when you say 1966 is BBs/ Brian's year. I said this before but it MUST be repeated: in Beatles.ru, the biggest Russian message board about Beatles, there's poster who knows all things about music, long-time huge Beatles fan & always will be 1st Beatles fan BUT, at the same time, fair & balanced about the other music. He lived thru the 60s in Estonia & stated that NOBODY dominated that year BUT the BBs. Even there, then-USSR republic people got to listen to English-speaking music & he says that GV blew him totally away making him forget Beatles in 1966, pointing out that local bands began due to listening to PS. Many youngsters were covering PS tracks with Estonian lyrics! See? PS influenced people to start bands! Top that! :police: :3d

But, younger people completely stood defending Beatles - don't forget it's Beatles site - they said usual "Didn't get PS", "weak", "doesn't rock", "fail to see why this is #2 album". The Estonian old-timer addressed these points, f.ex. he dubbed GOK THE perfect ballad.

Wrecking Crew played Brian's directions. He single-handedly created melody to every instrument. Now the lyrics. 1st, Tony Asher may write the lyrics but he didn't come up with themes - Brian gave him ideas. Next, Beatles writing lyrics themselves isn't anything new. It's not what they're famous/ revered for (like BBs). I read many times about Bob Dylan, Paul Simon being praised for "clever lyrics".

I bet everybody will agree that the Beach Boys vocally stand miles away ahead the Beatles. Beatles didn't build vocal arrangements like BBs, they went straight path.
If we're going to compare BBs vs. Beatles, we must vocals too.

Lastly, many can argue it's the Beatles' best album but, despite what HeyJude will predictably say, it's not objective truth. It's merely subjective opinion.

Regarding the Beatles writing their own material (including lyrics), it most certainly WAS one of the main sources of fame/being revered, whatever you want to call it.

They didn't get famous recording full albums of cover versions.

And there is most certainly something different about singing *your own* lyrics, versus singing lyrics another person wrote. I'm not knocking Brian or Tony Asher, they did amazing work together.

I think Tony Asher and the sessions musician on PS are being sold a bit short by trying to give Brian *even more* credit than he needs. It's Brian's album. No Brian, no Beach Boys, no Pet Sounds. No question. But I don't see any need to downplay what the session musicians did or what Tony Asher did. They weren't being 100% directed by Brian, especially Asher. Of course themes were discussed, but Tony wrote a lot of those words. Which he did beautifully.

But, if you're a writer and musician and creator, there *is* something different about writing your own stuff, and then playing it and recording it.

"Pet Sounds" and "Smile" were, in part, cases of someone outside the band steering (to some degree) the lyrical mood/content, and then also yet another *different* group of (sometimes revolving) musicians interpreting it in the studio. Great musicians, but the combination of them being *older* and being partially instructed what to play meant the *feel* was going to be different than the Beatles, and I think then that how it comes across to the listener makes it different as well.

A session musician for Brian was never going to play/improvise the other-worldly, spaced out piano at the end of "Magical Mystery Tour", or bust out a guitar solo like the one on "Taxman."

"Tomorrow Never Knows" was *as much McCartney* as it was Lennon when you read how it was put together, and that's something that Brian and Chuck Britz or a session musician were never going to get to.

All that aside, at the end of the day we can also just look at the pure songs, regardless of who wrote or played what. And on that count "Revolver" still wins. Revolver tracks like "Taxman" and "Doctor Robert" rock in a way the BBs never did. Then you have Harrison's wonderful, dissonant, kind of idiosyncratic stuff like "I Want to Tell You." McCartney turns in a myriad of classic masterpieces, literal "evergreens" that were never even singles like "Here, There, and Everywhere" and "Good Day Sunshine", plus "Eleanor Rigby" as well, and so on. Lennon not only brings the lyrical goods but also amazing melody (sometimes no doubt with McCartney chipping in) on stuff like "And Your Bird Can Sing" and "I'm Only Sleeping."

Brian's "Pet Sounds" has stunning material. It doesn't jump all over the board stylistically as much. There are the major key upbeat big production numbers like WIBN, "I'm Waiting for the Day." The slow burn heartbreaking ballads like "Don't Talk" (which, on certain days, I might say is  his BEST lead vocal ever), "You Still Believe In Me", "Caroline, No." Mike also gives some alternate lead vocal texture to his tracks like "That's Not Me" and "Here Today."

"Here Today" is one of the tracks where Brian reaches for Beatles-level alternate moods and textures. It's very dark if you look at it a certain way.

Obviously the BB group vocals are second to none, without question. Nobody did *that* better. I also think it was daring to eschew that which they were so well-known and highly regarded for by not only doing TWO instrumentals, but also a few tracks with *no* backing vocals at all.

Please stop misrepresenting what I have said or what you think I will say. Contrary to the slew of comments in the 1963 thread, I haven't ever asked anybody to "apologize" for their opinions.

NOR have I claimed one's opinion of a "best" album or "best" ANYTHING could possibly be an "objective" truth. Objective truths are sales figures, chart positions, etc.

These "vs" threads have brought out, in part, what I feel is a weird, ugly, embarrassing aspect of this board. As someone who has posted on this board for TWELVE going on THIRTEEN years and has probably way TOO many posts to my name, I tried (and failed) to help people realize this in the previous "vs." threads. I truly was trying to help this board get better.

Considering The Beach Boys felt they were in a friendly competition with the Beatles, its not too ridiculous that a Beach Boys message forum would have some threads that put some Beatles/Beach Boys albums in friendly competition with each other. As I said before: I think that any thread that helps drive conversation/education about beautiful music should be around.

That's all well and good. But Brian Wilson wasn't sitting around listening to "Rubber Soul" or "Revolver" and pumping his fist because he thought "Pet Sounds" was better. Nor were the Beatles doing so on their end.

The type of "competition" Brian felt (which, it can be noted, the Beatles largely *didn't* feel on their end) wasn't at all like fans picking their favorite in a "Vs." competition. The competition that spurred Brian was about *creating* something as good or better than something he thought was *the best.*

Imagine if Brian thought "Pet Sounds" mopped the floor with "Revolver." Would he have reached for "Smile" then?

Seriously, as an objective observer of these "vs." threads, I'd at least feel better if there wasn't an actual "POLL" element to them. What does that *possibly* signify beyond "my team is better than that team?"

What does a *PERCENTAGE DRIVEN POLL* have to do with driving conversation and education? That could be just as easily accomplished by a "1966 - The Beatles *and* The Beach Boys" thread, with no poll.

Firstly, the percentage poll is one part of the entire thread that allows for a lot of discussion to take place. I get it, the percentage poll is apparently embarrasing for the board and it should just be a thread titled “Discuss 1966, Revolver and Pet Sounds” but its not. Its a friendly poll/thread that has a lot of the active forum discussing the music. Which is the point of the music forum. I think less than 2 people in total have pumped their fists at the outcome of these threads yet you’re acting like everyone participating has this “Haha My Beech Boyz beat youre Beetles!!!!!” attitude when the discussions that have taken place most assuredly show that isn’t the case.

You are looking at the poll and only thinking that we’re all thinking “My team is better than your team” and that outlook makes it seem like you have a fairly low opinion of the people who are participating in these polls/threads. I think Pet Sounds is a better album than Revolver...I also think that Stg Pepper kicked the ass of anything The Beach Boys released in 1967. I would bet that many people here have that opinion too. It’s not a “my team vs your team” - its a discussion/poll and most people have been able to participate in them without turning it into a big deal.

Exactly

Please be careful, Hey Jude.   If you fall off a horse that high, you could seriously injure yourself. 

 :lol

Someone has to do it occasionally, otherwise you end up not being able to do things like the needed purge that happened here over a year ago ridding the board of a number of trolls.

There aren't many people left on this board trying to help make the *board* better instead of just coming on to get whatever *they* want out of it.

How often is anybody here thinking about what this board looks like to a newcomer and/or outsider?

I can't help further explain why, on a *BEACH BOYS BOARD*, saying The Beach Boys *handily* better the Beatles output in numerous years makes that segment of the board look silly. I'm not telling anybody *what* to say, or what to opinion to have. I'm saying the entire thing is an exercise in a straw man argument *when* it's a Beach Boys board.

I'm saying, have whatever discussion you want to, but maybe listen to Howie Edelson when he says this stuff is the "worst of fandom." He's a fan, and knows as much if not more about BOTH bands than anybody on this board, writes liner notes for the band's releases, *AND* has interviewed all of the actual guys. He's an expert and a good relative objective observer. Even if you don't agree that this is the worst of fandom, at least take a moment and try to understand what's being said here. Take *something* from it to understand why maybe this discussion is so uncool.

But hey, have at it folks. If I'm lucky, we only have a few years to go. Or, three months from now I'll be viewing the thread about how "Looking Back with Love" is better than "Tug of War."

By and large, my point has little to nothing to do with *which* band you think is better, or who wins the poll. It's the pitting the two against each other that isn't needed. Why? Why do the two need to be pitted *against* each other in order to discuss them?

If you can't describe why you like something, on both the micro and macro level, without saying it's "better" than something else, then that's unfortunate.

This isn't to say that comparisons and contrasting is never a useful tool. Of course it is. But saying "Hey, listen to Mike Love's 2004 recordings and why the lack of autotune sounds better than "Unleash the Love" isn't the same thing. That's instructive in some sense.

Maybe I'm wrong here, but I'm probably not.  

Didn't most of us set up accounts on Beach Boys, and other various music boards, Facebook Groups, etc, because it's FUN discussing the music???  

It's been said before, but this type of thread, which is not new on message boards, is designed to engage people in discussion, and offer a chance to maybe even take another look at one band's or another's work to make fun comparing and contrasting.  

Frankly, I think it's fun to contrast and compare like this.   I find it much more fun than "commemorating" the 30th Anniversary of Mike Love's not so proudest moment.   To me, THAT is a much more ugly side of music fandom than debating Revolver v Pet Sounds.  

If that makes me a poor fan, so be it.  

Maybe we could approach this in a different way?  This was an amazing creative process - a dance - between these two brilliant bands.  I honestly can't separate the two bands competing in a process that changed the course of music, and enjoying each other in the process.  Brian absolutely loved George Martin and the Beatles and all indications are that the feeling is mutual - well, it's on videotape, for instance.  They were also really competitive with each other.  I honestly don't think you can separate them.  While they had they're own separate approaches, they were hearing the same muses, so to speak.  It was just brilliant, and I'm thrilled to have been alive during the process.

BTW - no criticism of the post subject, it gets people's attention, and often great discussions.

HeyJude, it’s funny that you think that there aren’t many people on this forum trying to make it better. Well up until half a year ago, maybe less, this place was stagnant with monotonous posts about Mike Love being a dick. Then Watamushi starts his threads and polls that bring out a better aspect of the fandom: discuss the music! That’s what we’re doing here. Again, you’re looking solely at the poll and thinking we’re all just going bananas because we think The Beach Boys Pet Sounds is better than Revovler. You feel pitting one album against another in a poll is embarrasing and pointless.

Ya know what, probably 100% of the people participating in this thread would agree that solely a POLL pitting Beatles albums against Beach Boys albums is pointless. But again, it’s about the discussion that goes hand-in-hand with the poll. Is it a perfect system? Probably not! But Watamushi comes here, creates some great polls/threads, makes this place more positive in the process, and you have done nothing but complain about it - and yet you also vote and discuss in the threads that you think are making this place worse off.

You realize how much more positive this place has been lately because of threads like these?

All due respect to Howie Edelson, but I think he’s very wrong saying this is the “worst of the fandom”. I’d say we’ve all seen the worst of the fandom a couple years ago here, and it had nothing to do with some harmless banter about the Beatles.

I love the Revolver album, with the exception of Dr. Robert (sorry, just don't care for that song).
The album has a lot of studio tricks, but my favorite 2 songs don't employ those. They are simply great music/lyrics: Here, There, and Everywhere; and For No One.
For No One is probably my favorite "Paul" song. Everything comes together so simply, so perfectly. And the way it ends, just ends, no chord resolution. Incredible.

For No One is such a great song.   I feel it sometimes gets lost in the shuffle of Paul ballads like Yesterday, Fool on the Hill, She's Leaving Home, etc etc.   

Thank you. Your objections are noted.

I did take exception to the comment about this being "the worst of fandom", especially in light of what transpired here sometimes public and sometimes in whatever methods of communication were used. Being involved firsthand in that kind of mess repeatedly, I was surprised to read this kind of discussion tagged as the worst, and not calling out Howie or anyone specifically but more as a general commentary: Where were such comments to push back when the "worst" was truly on display and playing out? I mean, people using a status as an expert or historian or whatever the label who were out to ruin people personally, groups of posters repeating things that were either outright lies or attempts to shade or even rewrite the actual, factual history of events surrounding the history of this band, and worse...It perhaps could have used some voices of knowledge and/or reason to nip all that garbage in the bud right at the source, and it's still upsetting to recall how many chose to remain silent and let a lot of destructive things happen, in some cases where good people had their names dragged through the mud and were slandered and blatant attempts to either rewrite or whitewash the history of this band were on public display. This included slandering band members and families, based on falsehoods and dirty rumors that were nothing close to the truth. So that's where I stand on the issue of calling out threads, and my reasons why I'm a little surprised to see it applied here rather than when the worst of the fandom was actively attempting to change history and fact and destroy other posters in the process.


Correct, the worst was indeed on display and had been especially since late 2012 when it ramped up considerably.

But I would disagree with the notion that the discussions here were stagnant with posts about Mike Love being a dick. I think that is a mischaracterization or an overstatement of what was going on. A lot of it was posters pushing back and responding when comments were made trying to either boost Mike Love's legacy or credit him far beyond where credit would be deserved, and often using some pretty warped logic and reasoning to do so...if not outright lies and mistruths. And if such comments are made, and called out by some who just might know the facts or be able to put together a rational, fact-based list of reasons *why* said comments may be off-base or simply wrong versus disagreeing on opinions, it's hardly a case of posting that Mike is a dick solely for the sake of doing so. I don't recall too many unprompted posts trying to bash Mike or his legacy that did not come in response to someone trying to rewrite the history or state facts that are simply not true and can be proven so. And there is room to poke fun as well, if it becomes a sterile environment where parody and cracking some jokes while not crossing the lines becomes considered bashing or something similar, that's not where things should be either. And knowing this firsthand, some interested parties were actively trying to sterilize this forum in that way, where anything negative about band members but specific to one in particular should be a reason to ban a member who posted it.

I'm generally not a person into taking polls or even the notion of being able to "like" posts on message boards to where someone gets elevated because they have 325 likes and that makes them...better? More important? Nope. That's fine on Facebook, but not message boards or forums. But if discussing certain releases back-to-back leads to some good discussion, that is I'd think the goal...discussing, debating, conversing. It all works out, although maybe a different structure as has been suggested could accomplish similar goals.

Definitely an overstatement on my part. And I also felt like during that time there were trolls just trying to stoke flames. When people defend Mike to the most irrational levels I will call it out. But I feel like lately it hasn’t even been an issue, a lot due to these types of threads.

Well THIS HERE THREAD certainly has been hijacked.  As one of the folks here who KNOWS that Mike is a "dick"...cause he just keeps on keepin' on when it comes to proving it...and to have sit here for the years that foolishness [the same type employed by white-house spokespersons] championed him as some kind of big talent and key component to the history of all things musically great in the world in the 60s and 70s and when was that piece of sh*t Summer in Paradise recorded?...There came a time when the record needed to be set straight...and set in stone so that wee fairies couldn't fly in when no one was looking and re-write the truth.

Now this thread is one about what?  Pet Sounds and Revolver?  No it isn't.  What an ever-expanding pile of fly attractant THAT is.  But I guess when you're losing...by a country friggin' mile...as you  should...it's time to call upon the oh-so-tiresome white house spokesperson ploy of pivoting.

The world has voted on this...and the world has done so with a degree of regularity.  Seems to me that Pet Sounds is always WAY up there when folks and experts alike pick the all time best albums.  Revolver is great...think I called it my favourite Beatles album of them all...but it sure as shyte ain't Pet Sounds.  And just when has there ever been valid discussions which would seriously suggest that Day Tripper is a better hit single, song or creative production than Good Vibrations?  It hasn't happened because it is none of those things.  The poll currently sits at something in the vicinity of 1966 Beach Boys 25 - 1966 Beatles 2.  THAT seems about right smack dab TOES ON THE NOSE to me and the Beach Boys so obviously deserve to take the 1966 'battle' for creative supremacy that any other argument is laughable.

Next year [meaning 1967] that will NOT be the case.  AND...Next year [meaning 2019] Mike Love will still be a dick.

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Note...It has been pointed out that I put down Day Tripper here.  Should have been Paperback Writer.  My bad. :-[

I think there is a tendency among some posters to take threads like this one with some degree of hypersensitivity. It's not a c*ck fight. We're tossing starving pitbulls into a pit to fight to the death. It's just a fun speculation thread. Like two friends speculating who would win in a fight between Superman and The HULK. It's just a good angle to discuss what we love.

Go on any message board NOT dedicated to the Beach Boys and I guarantee you the BBs would not win a "1966 poll" 25 to 2. THAT'S embarrassing. Calling it "laughable" to even consider the Beatles on par with the BBs in 1966 is embarrassing. I'd say the same thing if the reverse were taking place on a Beatles board.

Also, "Day Tripper" is 1965, not 1966.

I'm embarrassed for this board reading stuff like this. This is all fanboy stuff. DC fans saying Justice League is better than the X-Men.

I'd like to think this board, which has cracked some great BB mysteries and uncovered all kinds of amazing facts and has some great, knowledgeable fans, can aspire to more than "which superhero would win in a fight?" or "My Dad can beat up your Dad" territory.

I was going to say this is farcical "Kirk vs. Picard" stuff, but it's actually more analogous to a Star Trek board doing a "Star Trek vs. Star Wars" thread. "Hey look, Star Trek won the poll 37-to-1. There's your proof!"

HeyJude, I’m beginning to think that you’re just pissed off that there are some people in this world who prefer The Beach Boys music over the Beatles music. I mean, you’re claiming these threads where we pit one artist against another are embarrassing for the forum, yet you yourself in this thread claim “"Revolver" still wins.”. Up until Howie Edelson made his statement that this is the “worst of the fandom” you were heavily involved in the debate/conversation that you are now fighting against. And now you are both fighting against and participating in the very conversation you want to see scrubbed from this forum. You were so involved at one point you started suggesting different rules for the poll/thread:

“I think you have to pull back and add a little objectivity to the mix, something a bit beyond what *you* personally like. Otherwise, what's the point of asking a *BEACH BOYS* message board which band they like more? There's a point at which saying every year that "the Beach Boys spoke to my soul and the Beatles didn't" is going to get a bit redundant. ”

I mean, you’re telling Beach Boys fans to partially set aside the personal reasons why they like an album in a poll/thread about personal preference just so the Beatles have a better chance in that poll/thread. And then when Howie says this is the worst of the fandom you switch gears and just want the poll threads gone because they are embarrassing (while still writing that the Beatles are winners). Now you seem to be hellbent that these threads just consist of fist pumping “there’s your proof!” “My Beach Boys are better than your Beatles” when there is solid and easily attainable proof that this most certainly isn’t the case (I think one person made one comment like this and its being taken way out of proportion). Mostly everyone has had nothing but great things to say about both bands, even if they prefer one over the other.

I guess my point is that it appears you’re just pissed off that there are people here who prefer some Beach Boys music over some Beatles music, and you’re willing to say and do whatever to keep those opinions to a minimum. Is that the case? I really don’t know exactly what your intentions are with the continuous negative posts regarding these poll threads, but given what I wrote above (regarding you fighting against and yet still participating in these polls/threads) it seems pretty clear that its the case.

We can’t all be cracking mysteries. I wish to hell that I were the great Stephen Desper but I’m not, so I’m not able to uncover too many facts about my favorite band. But I am able to share my opinions in some threads. Again, I’m willing to concede that these poll threads may not be perfect, but the idea behind them is sound: Watamushi is helping get a lot of fans listening to BOTH bands, talking about both bands, telling anecdotes about when they first heard Revovler, Please Please Me, etc. I really don’t see how that’s the worst of the fandom. Nor do I see why it’s worth all the negativity you’re bringing to the table. We can still crack mysteries, Desper recently posted a link to his Friends album that I’ve been excited to watch and comment on. This poll/thread is one tiny aspect of a big forum.

Jude...You just go ahead and be embarrassed.  I'm not.  Hence the vote.  My collection of Beach Boys music...group and Wilson/Jardine solo material is WAY larger than that of the fabbies.  2 - 3 times larger.  NOT embarrassed about that either.  A Beatles web site might vote differently.  Back in '67...in regard to '66 the folks in Merry Olde went with the Beach Boys too.  Why?  'Cause THAT'S the way it was...in real time.

Have a cookie.
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Oh and as for the comment 'credited' to Howie.  THAT'S a pile of  bull-moose excrement.  I'm sure Howie isn't saying that people who prefer Beach Boys music should vote for the Beatles just 'cause they think that the Fabulous 4 enjoyed more chart success.  THAT would be the worst of 'fandumb.'

Have another cookie. ::)
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Also... I meant Paperback Writer...not Day Tripper.  It wouldn't have mattered which song though as Good Vibrations would POUND it.

Any cookies left?  Have another one. >:D

 :deadhorse

If you'd like to continue, by all means, continue.   If talking down to every poster on these Beach Boys v Beatles threads and going on long diatribes to "prove" that your opinion should be taken as fact in some sort of weird effort to educate us "dullards" who like to participate in fun comparison discussion makes you feel better about yourself, go ahead.   By all means, beat that dead horse and educate us on the "right" way to be music fans. 

Who is going to use this thread to validate their opinion?  :lol

Even if someone does, it reflects more on them than it does on fun threads like this.