The Smiley Smile Message Board

I was reading a discussion about Mellotrons recently, and had a complete mental block as to whether BW (or the BBs generally) had ever used one. Can't remember seeing a reference.

Given that the Beatles were using it on Strawberry Fields, November 1966, Brian's creative peak era, I'm surprised if not. Maybe it's a UK vs US thing?

During that period Brian was into the organ - I don't believe he ever used a mellotron, although he obviously did (later) use synthesizers.  I just wish he had used the water sounds mellotron (keyboard tied to tape loops, which is basically what the mellotron was) that Desper created for him on a song!

Wasn't that for "Cool, Cool Water" if I remember....

there is a piano/synth museum in calgary, canada (where i live)..and next to the mellotron, they have a promotional mellotron poster from the late 60's/early 70's listing all the groups who use the instrument and the beach boys are listed on it. so based on that, i am going to go ahead and say that yes, they did use a mellotron at one point or another.

Neither Brian nor The Beach Boys ever used a Mellotron. Chamberlain (or however you spell the damn thing), yes, but not a Mellotron.

He certainly used a tape based keyboard in the late 60s; it's best heard on Country Air, producing that fluctuating buzzing sound audible in between the first & second verses. However, I think this was probably a Chamberlin unit, the US-designed device upon which the Mellotron was -ahem- "based".
More on the Chamberlin here:
http://www.kleonard.com/mellotron/mellotronia/MusicMaster.htm
http://www.hollowsun.com/vintage/chamberlin/index.html

(http://www.thezimmermantwins.com/zimmerman%20twins%20site/eBay/GP0174MEL495.jpg)

Just stumbled upon this....the Beach Boys are right there on the list of endorsements!

True, they are... but can you point to even one released or unreleased BB track and say "Mellotron" ?  It had a very distinctive sound (e.g. "Knights In White Satin") and I don't hear that anywhere in the BB canon. Brian & the Boys certainly used a Chamberlain, which is mechanically similar, but I'd bet fairly heavily against their having ever used a mellotron. The AFM sheets don't mention it, nor does Steve Desper, or anyone else. But in the interests of fairness, I'lla sk around.

Maybe the BB never used a mellotron, but I got to play one for a recording project.  They're fun.  And fragile.  The sound they put out is monophonic (the way they're used on Strawberry Fields and Fool On the Hill).   For that big orchestral Moody Blues/Genesis/King Crimson sound you have to "flange" the mellotron output track into stereo with tape echo or digital delay.

The operative word here is "use."  I know that the BB are familiar with the Mellotron and played one while at Abby Road Studios in London.  Brian was back in the USA at the time. He could well have played one in the course of things.  So if you mean, did any of the Beach Boys ever play a Mellotron, the answer is yes.  But if you mean, did they ever record tracks using a Mellotron, to the best of my knowledge, no.

If my memory serves me, you could rent one in Hollywood from Studio Instrument Rentals, but the Mellotron was never very reliable and thus could not be counted on to be a source of sound for a session.  The US made Chamberlin used the same operating principle, but was better built and usually worked when you wanted it to.

As you may know, The Beach Boys bought two units and used a modified one for some preliminary sessions of Cool Cool Water.  However, the final sounds of water drops used in that recording were made on a MOOG synthesizer, played by Paul Beaver.   ~swd

Wasn't it used on Cabinessence (BWPS)? I know it was used during performances of it.

Not that I know of ... but then, I don't pretend to know everything.  Sometimes you fans have the inside scoop! ~swd

The Chamberlin was rare enough in Hollywood back in the mid to late '60s but the Mellotron was even rarer. I can't think of any recordings made in LA (1966-1968) that feature the Mellotron. Curt Boettcher used the Chamberlin on a lot of the Ballroom and Millennium recordings. Gary Paxton had one at his home studio and you can hear it on Jan & Dean's Save It For A Rainy Day LP and a few rare folk-rock recordings by the Gosdin Brothers among others.

I noticed you specifically noted BRIAN WILSON PRESENTS SMiLE for use of the mellotron, but I just don't know where it would be used on "Cabinessence". The verses utilize piano, banjo, melodica, harmonica and cello. The chorus adds fuzz bass, percussion and guitar. The coda uses a "sitar/sarod/banjo"-sounding instrument, piano, harmonica, violin, fuzz bass, percussion and plucked guitar strings for added percussion. That's what I'm hearing anyway and I'm pretty sure the same instruments were used live (fake piano, of course, and the "sitar/sarod/banjo" part was eliminated).

Are you confusing the melodica with a mellotron?

Isn't the banjo / sarod part two different instruments - actually a banjo and sarod calling-and-responsing? I thought it was supposed to be an "East-meets-West" thing that reflected the lyrics? It is two separate instruments on the original, right?

Possibly used on stage?
Just throwing it out there.

I didn't see one on stage (didn't hear one, either) at the performance of BWPS in Madison, WI in 2004.

Yes, I believe so. I only referred to the instruments as one to cover all the bases since I'm still not sure if it really is an official "sarod" on the original or if it's a combination of two other instruments (does someone have a session sheet on this one?). I am pretty certain, however, that there is no mellotron on either the original or the BWPS remake. I can also add that I did not see nor hear a mellotron during either of the two SMiLE performances I saw in 2004/2005.

Two different instruments playing two completely different parts.  The Banjo is playing a little counter melody, and the Indian sounding instrument is droning.


The banjo is present in the coda on BWPS, but I don't hear the Indian sounding instrument.

No,no...i'm talking like back in the day...that Mellotron advert has gotta be what, early '70's?

Right. I thought that the banjo played the first few measures, then the "sarod" played the same part for the next few, etc. I'll have to listen again. I wonder where I got that from?

I'd love to have a compilation of Brian Wilson's early '70s Moog backing tracks. It's a niche market wet dream, and will never happen, but god what a cool thing that would be. Some of them (like "Sweet Mountain" and "Tennessee Waltz") were full-on synthesizer masterpieces, whereas, others just have a part here or there, but hearing them all in one place would be amazing.

I was trying to think last night if L.A. had anyone like Kraftwerk during the '70s, that really captured the SoCal industrialism and highway system using cold synthesizers. I couldn't think of anyone, except that Brian and Carl's use of the Moog had a warmth that was really indicative of the climate here.

Looks like the concensus is that The BB never used a Mellotron, period, live or in the studio. Strikes me that advert could be charitably described as 'misleading'.

i was pretty sure Scotty Bennet played it at the Smile shows....check the dvd.

Why use a Mellotron when you've got a Kurzweil ?

Could At My Window feature a Mellotron, on the flute setting? The flutes at the beginning still sound a little keyboardy to me.

This topic has been discussed before, and most believe that any "mellotron-like" sounds you hear on BB recordings are most likely the Chamberlin or something else entirely.  The flutes on "At My Window" have been verified as being real flutes.  The intro to "All I Wanna Do" is a Fender Rhodes with Moog treatments.  "Country Air", "Add Some Music To Your Day", and possibly "Forever" probably use Chamberlin (in addition to real strings in some cases).  I am simply in awe of how talented and creative Desper and the Beach Boys were during this period ... to be able to get those unique sounds ... sounds that have never been replicated.  this will keep us guessing for decades. 

The entire sound of that record is incredible--one of the best uses of keyboards ever and one of the best productions of the era period. If Desper's reading this, that's a job truly well done.

This might sound like a stupid question, but wasn't the Chamberlin company somehow involved with the Mellotron? I might be mistaken, but I thought the Chamerlin was the US version of the Mellotron.

May I remind you that Steve Desper, who engineered Sunflower, has stated categorically in this thread that the band never, to his knowledge, used a Mellotron. The simplest answer, in the light of this evidence, is that the advert is wrong.

Did anyone ever notice that the distortion so often mentioned in Country Air is exactly the same as in Sagitarius's  Musty Dusty ? Both the same rented Chamberlin machine I'M SURE.
I think.......  

Harry Chamberlin invented the tape sampler instrument.  He produced and marketed several versions (in very limited quantities) ... one of his employees took the concept to England in the mid-60s, looking for a distribution deal.  The salesman ended up essentially "stealing" the idea and producing the Mellotron with an small independent British company.  They eventually had to pay Chamberlin for use of his patent.  The Mellotron is basically a rip-off of the Chamberlin, in fact using the same taped samples in some early versions.  In my opinion, the Chamberlin is a superior instrument in construction and sound.

Now that you point that out, very interesting! I love LA's sunshine pop strands...Musty Dusty was co-written by Tandyn Almer (of Along Comes Mary and Sail On Sailor co-write fame), a portion of Musty Dusty is also played backwards at the end of The Millennium's record (in Karmic Dream Sequence #1 I do believe)

What about those strings on "Winter Symphony"? That's definitely a Chamberlin, Mellotron, Optigan organ or something...

Also, there is obviously a Mellotron or a Chamberlin on "Country Air". This is clearly heard in the stereo mix of the song. Plus, someone is playing a few stray notes on it at the start of the take so you can hear it in isolation. If that isn't a tape-based keyboard instrument, I'll eat this entire forum. Without salt.

Blimey - my 6-year old thread resurrected.
Can I go back to 2007 please?  :-D

Hope you don't mind me bumping your thread, but this is such an important topic.  ;D

In the documentary 'Mellodrama', BW appears for about five minutes. He doesn't mention that it was a Chamberlin, and says that he never recorded a Mellotron's strings alone, only to embellish real strings. He then plays an out-of-key version of California Girls on it (I can only guess his voice was in tune and the knobs on the unit were accidentally transposed) and quips that he hadn't played it in 35 years (seemed to have been filmed 2006/2007) and that it had brought him back a load of memories.

The doc also says that a "Mellotron/Chamberlin" was used on Add Some Music To Your Day and Country Air.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCabuis6t2w

1:36

An ARP String Ensemble, IIRC

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,15495.0.html
This thread should answer some questions.

You're probably right. I just thought it sounded a bit too "wobbly" for an ARP/Solina, but it would fit in with the equipment used during 15BO/Love You era.

Ah, thanks a lot for the link. Strange how I could miss that one...

Harry Chamberlin's samples were considered superior to anything Streetly Electronics (Mellotron) ever did on their own

There is no downside to the BB's having used the Chamberlin as opposed to it's rather shoddy "cousin".

Some potentially new info:

I've corresponded with a fellow who recorded at Brother Studio circa '76, who mentioned there was a Mellotron there that was owned by Brian and not allowed to be touched. Of course, could be the Chamberlin ... he couldn't remember specifically.

A lot of sounds could be attributed to many other keyboards as well, as the group used just about every keyboard available at the time. In the home studio, they had a Baldwin Electric Haprischord, Chamberlin, RMI Rock-si-Chord, Fender Rhodes Celeste, Brian's Baldwin organ, and a Hammond as well.

Is that what Bruce plays on This Whole World?

Also, where is the Hammond heard in the home studio years?

Is the harpsichord on Time To Get Alone the electric one or is that an acoustic? It has such an odd sound to it. Even the way in which it's played sounds odd.

No, I don't think so. Sounds like a real celeste or glockenspiel to me. The Fender Rhodes Celeste is shown in the 'Time to Get Alone' sessions footage on American Band (Bruce is in fact playing it!). It's basically just a Fender Rhodes without the full range (I think 49 keys) ... they just called it 'Celeste' for some reason. I suspect it's the Rhodes used on 'The Nearest Faraway Place'. Denny is playing a full 73-key Rhodes in the 'Don't Go Near the Water' clip, but this may have been a prop for the clip.

http://www.fenderrhodes.com/img/models/silvertop/pianoceleste-front.jpg


I might be making an assumption here, or thinking of the later home studio recordings ... could be the Baldwin through a Leslie, but I feel like we don't hear the Baldwin much after '69-ish. They also had a Clavinet by '69.


I think it's an acoustic harpsichord, maybe two. The Baldwin really sounds kind of more 'electric guitar'-like. I don't really know for sure that they recorded with the Baldwin, as I can't think of any examples, but I know they had one that they took on tour in late '67 or '68.

They were already using the Clavinet on Friends.

I don't believe so -- I think you're referring to the Rocksichord.

I'm pretty sure it's a clavinet. It's got a different tone than the Roxi stuff on the rest of the album. It's only on the song Friends and It's much more audible on the SOT stuff.

I just listened closely, and yeh you're right -- sounds like a Clavinet (on the low notes particularly). Funny thing is, I think I might hear the Rocksichord in there as well (playing the role of upright piano) ... unless it's an acoustic piano -- it's too buried in the mixes to tell.

They really should build a Beach Boys mellotron. From all members one "Aaaaah" stop, one "Oooooh" stop and one with "dit"s. :-D

You can hear mellotron on I Wanna Pick You Up (accordion sound, 0:54):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KoYk2mgE8A8

Compare with http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXGGS3fW6_A (0:28, right channel)

c-man confirms it here http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,15495.0.html

I'm just curious, on the Rhodes Celeste - Can we think of any practical reason why they would use this model, when it was basically a standard Rhodes with less range? Portability? The name is misleading, it suggests it would sound more like a Celeste but it's just a mini-Rhodes!

The link Donny just posted:
(http://www.fenderrhodes.com/img/models/silvertop/pianoceleste-front.jpg)

And I have a question based on my memory, not having the videos in front of me: Do I recall seeing concert clips of the BB's playing a Rhodes-type instrument on stage that had a blue finish? Or was this the grey sparkle "Celeste" model that I'm remembering?

If it was indeed a blue Rhodes model, was this a custom color?

<<And I have a question based on my memory, not having the videos in front of me: Do I recall seeing concert clips of the BB's playing a Rhodes-type instrument on stage that had a blue finish? Or was this the grey sparkle "Celeste" model that I'm remembering?

If it was indeed a blue Rhodes model, was this a custom color?>>

I believe the Rock-Si-Chord played by Brian onstage at the Whisky was blue...

You don't think there's a Baldwin electric on "When I Grow Up"? and the chorus to "Good Vibrations"?

That one I know, I had linked a few color shots of those shows with the Rock-si-Chord earlier, but my memory must be going bad here...I think it may have been the Central Park gig? Or another early 70's show video where either Bruce or Dennis was seen sitting at what I thought was a blue Rhodes type of instrument? For all I know, it may just have been this grey-sparkle Celeste thing reflecting some stage lights, but I wanted to see if anyone else remembers this or can ID it.

Were they seen on stage with the Rock-si-Chord without Brian? Or did that stay in LA?

If i could chime in, I actually don't hear a Baldwin electric on either of those. I think Brian preferred "real" acoustic harpsichords which he could access easily in the studios, and there are so many sessions where he's playing one (or complaining about the bad action... ;D ), I think those tracks are pure acoustic.

The hands-down, most famous example of the sound of a Baldwin electric that most people would know is heard on "Because" by the Beatles, and if you watch this video the musician demo'ing an original (and rare) Baldwin Electric just nails that sound from the Beatles. You can hear it has a different "ring" to the notes than even other electric harpsichords.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztpraz85asA#t=131 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztpraz85asA#t=131)

EDIT: "Because" starts at 55 seconds into the video.

Central Park '71 was a white (or creme-colored) Wurly, I beleive.  Crystal Palce '72 was a black Rhodes.  Not sure if the Roxi was used at the Whisky after Brian bailed,but I doubt it.

Ah! I always wondered why the accordion sounded so odd there - not bad, just strange. Thank you for the info! :)

Yes, all Rocksichords are blue. The Rhodes Celeste in the 'Time to Get Alone' clip played by Bruce kind of looks blue.

The Baldwin didn't come out until '66, so it was not on 'When I Grow Up' ... I don't think 'Good Vibes' either. To me, the Baldwin doesn't actually sound that much like a harpsichord, more like an 'electric guitar keyboard'.

Another thing to note when listening is that the Baldwin lacks the 'chorus' effect of an acoustic harpsichord ... it only has one string per note.

Are there any other true electric harpsichords? Unless you count the Clavinet, I don't think there were any others manufactured, though the Rocksichord (or RMI Electra-Piano for that matter) is sometimes referred to as an 'electric harpsichord', it's technically 'electronic' ... i.e., it's not electro-mechanical.

I definitely hear an RMI Electra-piano on the verses of "Add Some Music" and "Passing By."

Check this Vox out and let me know what you think after hearing it, I'm copying and pasting the link to the video from another "harpsichord" thread several months ago:

And I'd like to know what make and model harpsichord Darian is playing on the Wondermints' "Bali" album, he got a great electric-sounding harpsichord tone on that one.

yeh I remember that post!

I think that's electronic as well ... not electro-mechanical. The Baldwin and Hohner Clavinet are the only electro-mechanical harpsichord-type instruments that I'm aware of having ever been made ... the others (including the Rocksichord and Vox) are basically akin to a 'Harpsi' or 'Sustain' tab on a transistor organ, though of a much more refined quality ... OR, later on, digital.

The 'problem' with Baldwin and Clavinet is that they don't have the chorus-type sound of a real harpsichord, as it would just take too many strings on a 'portable' instrument. So really, a harpsichord has never really been 'electrified'.

The Chamberlin actually had a sample of the Baldwin Elec. Harpsichord as well (labeled only 'Electric Harpsichord') -- that's a unique sound! (I used it on that album I sent you -- the outro to the first track!). Since the Beach Boys had a Chamberlin (and possibly a Mellotron as well), it really muddies the waters as far as identifying what was used where!

Rocksichord ... the Electra-Piano includes a Harpsichord section that has only a couple options, whereas a Rocksichord has a lot more tabs on it. They sound similar but not the same.

RMI did in fact release a model 600A later on, 'Electra Piano and Rocksichord', but I've never seen any indication that the Beach Boys used one. They had a model 200A.

Great stuff! I'll give it a listen. They definitely don't make it easy to ID these things, do they?  ;D

I tend to think the harpsichord on When I Grow Up is just a good old fashioned harpsichord.

Yeah, i don't hear anything but an acoustic harpsichord on any of the Western/Sunset/Gold Star era stuff.

One thing that helps is when the track sheets are labeled as "Roxi" or "RMI"...assuming they're labeled correctly!

What about the funky keyboard sound on "You're Still A Mystery"?  Obviously not a Mellotron or a Rock-Si-Chord...Andy says it's an electric piano...doesn't sound like a Wurly or a Rhodes...maybe a Hohner?

gee ... that's a tough one! when you get to the '90s, it really could be anything ...

It sounds like something like a Yamaha CP30?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYOVZlKmV5k

could be an early variation of a Hohner Pianet, but I think the Yahama sounds closer:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qX-H3M-kzIk

I hear a real piano and some kind of organ in the track as well. Of course, they may have used a digital keyboard for all three!

Those CP30s are pretty cool. I've never owned one but have played some ... sort of like a second generation Rocksichord. The old Pianets are pretty inconsistent and finicky!

Thanks, Donny  - agreed, the Yamaha sounds closest.  And I'd like to think Benmont Tench is cool enough to use the real thing rather than a digital stand-in!  :)

How about the harpsichord used on the "Eat A Lot" choruses in "Vega-Tables"?  To me, that fits the description of a guitar-like harpsi sound...

Yep, sounds like it's the first use of the Baldwin Harpsichord on a Beach Boys track! Though, it could actually be a Clavinet (the earlier models have a similar sound), but I would lean toward the Baldwin ... it has that sort of bright 'shimmer' the Clavinet lacks.

check out around 4:00 here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5h2iEdu7uAw&list=PLpvq4nHc7-USfopJWtzvfJs6SprgJS9c9

Sounds like it's in the tag on the Smiley version.

good ear, I don't think I ever noticed that, but it's obvious in the sessions.

Incidentally, Baldwin also made an electric piano called the 'Electropiano', which kind of like an upright piano minus the top. The sound is like a cross between an upright and a Wurlitzer electric. Wonder if they group ever used this one. I've played one before, but info is pretty scarce on them.

The Monkees used either a Clavinet and/or Baldwin a bit in '67:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40-zNB0BD4E

I used to think this track was a Clavinet, but I think it's probably the Baldwin.

I don't know what instrument they used in the Vegetables tag, but I don't think it's an electric harpsichord. I think Chuck calls it an organ a couple times.

The overdub session I referenced above ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5h2iEdu7uAw&list=PLpvq4nHc7-USfopJWtzvfJs6SprgJS9c9 ) ... it's some kind of electro-mechanical instrument. Most likely the Baldwin I think. Are you talking about this 'tag' (from the Smiley version), or the 'Eat a Lot' section? The 'Eat a lot' section, as C-Man mentioned above, has some kind of 'electric guitar keyboard' going in the rhythm. I think the Baldwin sound on the overdub session for what became the Smiley tag supports the use of this instrument in both instances.

Re: Chuck -- lotsa folks use 'keyboard', 'piano' and 'organ' interchangeably ... I would say some wacky new plastic electric harpsichord could very well be called an 'organ' by some (I've actually listed the Rocksichord as 'organ' in album credits on my own releases).

You guys are the experts, but man, i really don’t see how the “chimey” overdub in the Smiley VT tag could be an electric harpsichord. There’s no discernible plucking sound in its attack. It has a much "rounder" attack which is what gives it its bell-like sound. I can't fathom any sort of harpsichord making that type of sound, especially when i hear those parts where a bunch of keys are slammed out of frustration. It doesn't have that "crunch" kind of sound that harpsichord chords have. And the range is weird too, i think it would be a lot thinner sounding if it was in the harpsichord's upper range, and a lot fuller and heavier sounding if it was in the lower range, but that sound just doesn't make much sense as the mid range of a harpsichord.

This overdub instrument has always baffled me because i’ve never been able to place it and it sounds like something that would have only existed decades later, like a toy keyboard.

I'm not saying i don't believe you, Donny and Craig, but it's just so hard to wrap my head around that being an electric harpsichord.

Agreein' with you on this one.

It sounds like they are using a muted harpsichord distorted through some type of tube gear on H&V.
Oh, and I know Stephen is saying that they didn't use a mellotron on Sunflower - but they certainly tried to make it sound that way with the intro to 'At My Window'.

Donny - thanks for backing me up on the use of Baldwin electric harpsichord on the "Eat A Lot" sections, but I agree with these other guys that something elese was used for the Smiley VG fade...when the keys are all slammed, it sounds more like a piano...based on how it sounds on the actual fade part, Alan Boyd was thinking it was a set of vibes, but that overdub session indicates otherwise...to me, that's some kind of organ, but what I don't know.  And incidentally, it was overdubbed simultaneously with the mono mixdown, so it doesn't reside on any of the multitrack tapes.

My best guess is that it's a transistor combo organ on maybe a glockenspiel, celeste, vibes, or even electric piano setting. Something along those lines. Though which organ i couldn't even begin to guess. I've never really heard that sound elsewhere.

I agree in the mix, it sounds vibraphon-y. listen to this clip beginning around 2:55:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4QrBLIEKEY

This is the Baldwin organ, which is probably about as sophisticated as you can get in '67 (aside from the Rocksichord). This guy plays through some of the percussive sounds ... and it sounds really good, close enough for me to go back and listen to the 'tag' part of the "vegetables" session again. I'm willing to say that it could be the Baldwin organ, and I could be wrong, BUT ...

I still think it's the Baldwin harpsichord, sent through an amp w/ heavy reverb, sent through a Leslie. You can hear the reverb coming BEFORE the Leslie, as the reverb actually swirls a bit ... when whoever is playing does that 'bad' chord over & over to signal to stop the tape & start over (listen around 3:57: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5h2iEdu7uAw&list=PLpvq4nHc7-USfopJWtzvfJs6SprgJS9c9). I think maybe the Leslie is making it sound more synthetic. And the elec. harpsichord in the 'eat a lot' section is certainly not an organ ... I think maybe the Leslie is throwing us off (I believe the track 'Good Time' features a Clavinet through a Leslie, which makes it actually sound like an organ). The Leslie would subdue the attack.

I just think it sounds too percussive/stringy (you can almost hear the plectrum release) to be totally synthetic. Really, it sounds very very similar to the 'Elec. Harpsichord' tape on a Chamberlin. I used this on an album release of mine, and some people asked me what the 'casio 8 bit sound' was. It really can sound quite synthetic (imagine the sound at the beginning of this video through a Leslie w/ reverb):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztpraz85asA

I think maybe you guys are thinking of the Baldwin as more commonly used in the lower register. The upper keys sound very chime-y.

But you never know -- maybe the Baldwin organ was that good. I think whatever instrument it is, it is a single instrument/single player. My money is still on the Baldwin harpsichord, especially if we agreeing that this was used on the 'eat a lot' section. ... Until someone can tell me a specific make & model instrument that it is instead of this.

PS - There was really no combo organ at the time that could sound that 'good' in my opinion. If you listen to the vibraphone or harpsichord stops on something like the Gibson G201 (which was one of the only combo organs to have such a selection), they really sound too 'cheesy' to be used here (think 'Lucy in the Sky w/ Diamonds' intro).

I’m listening again, trying to imagine it as an elec. harpsichord (one thing for sure i haven’t been able to hear is any sound of the plectrum release), and that Baldwin demo video really does have me more convinced now  :o. But in the meantime, as an aside, i just wanted to say another thing that’s baffling about this session is how many takes it took to get such a simple part. I wonder what was going on there.

OK, back to listening.

the part where I can hear something that sounds like the 'pluck' decay is between 4:00-4:06

also, I don't think the player (Brian?) is screwing up as much as trying to work out the part he wants, then making a discordant sound to signal that he wants to start over.

I mean, it could be something totally crazy like a celeste through a leslie ... kind of like how we finally figured out that the weird percussion sound in the 'Pet Sounds' instrumental track was bongos through a leslie. I don't think it's a celeste actually though, doesn't sound like the right timbre. but you know what I mean. certainly is not vibraphone or piano.

Oh, i didn't mean to suggest that those tone clusters are part of the musician playing and screwing up. Those are obviously intentional. I always interpreted that as a case of a keyboardist slamming down on a bunch of keys out of frustration, but i can also see how it could be to get the engineer's attention, which does make more sense.

Yeah, i know what sound you're talking about between 4:00-4:06 but between the tape rewind, some brief static, and a bit of a vegetable crunch, it's hard to tell what exactly is going on there. What about the click at 4:12 that sounds like (not that i'm suggesting it's this, but as a comparison) someone stepping on an effects pedal?

And yeah, definitely not a vibraphone or a piano. I also doubt it's a celeste.

Man, i hate that Paul McCartney's bloody name is in the title of this video.   

Although, on second thought, some of the sounds on Ferrante & Teicher's prepared piano albums would really make you think twice about a piano and start doubting everything you think you know!

Maybe we covered this sometime back, but...I was listening to the instrumental rough mixes of "Good Timin'" that float around, and from those somewhat low-quality sources, the harpsichord sounds like an electric, especially on the note decays...consensus?

I agree about the decay.  Still not convinced either way though, as the quality of the boot I have is rather poor, so it's really hard to tell.  My guess is electric.

sounds like an acoustic to me, or maybe a Mellotron/Chamberlin tape of acoustic harpsichord.

Yeh you can do just about anything with an acoustic piano --- the most versatile instrument ever !!!

  >:DI have some Chamberlin samples/ Memotron and you can wonk the settings around and get a lot of different sonic textures. EQ, reverb/delay/echo and mic placement were all at the studio's fingertips back in the day. I dont know when Brian acquired and started to use a tape-based sampler but the normal sound of conventional keyboards could be drastically modified using even these "limited" tools. Overdubbing could also invent a new "instrument" to keep us scratching our heads  :-\...Just my .02  ;D

Yep.

But 'Good Timin' sounds pretty much like a regular harpsichord to me. The weird one is the 'Vegetables' tag instrument. But I'm 85% certain that's the Baldwin Elec. Harpsi. through a Leslie.

The group did of course use different textures, but most of the '60s-era stuff is fairly straightforward, with the weirdness coming from legitimate 'on the floor' musical combinations (as opposed to individual processing -- with a few notable exceptions). And the effects available were fairly limited ... there were also limitations due to 3, 4 & 8 track counts.

Something like 'Time to Get Alone' sticks out in my mind as classic, definitive creative BW use of instruments that combine in strange ways ... the harpsichord and piano are playing off one another, but it's a rhythmic thing, not simply combining two instruments.

By the time you get to Sunflower, there was a lot more individual processing going on, and more products on the market for processing. the mid to late '60s were the sweet spot in my opinion. The gear and instruments were simple and straightforward, so all of the creativity came with a human touch.

I think they got a Chamberlin around fall '67.

Like, throw it out of the window? ;D



Wasn't it already confirmed that it was the Baldwin?

Who confirmed it? Baldwin harpsichord or Baldwin organ?

Just wanted to say that Brian mentions that "...we have a Chamberlin but haven't experimented with it yet" in the 20 minute Rock and Other Four Letter Words interview

That's weird. They already used it by early 1968 on Country Air.

... and earlier still, in late 1966/early 1967 when Desper made the 'water machine' at Brian's behest.

How about the electric piano sound on "Sumahama"?  Sounds a little different than the standard Rhodes, so perhaps the CP30 or some other model of Yamaha?

chorused guitar? I'm not sure I hear an elec piano in there, but it's been awhile since I've listened to it.

Yeah, I hear that too, but there's definitely a keyboard on the track...played by Jai Winding, according to the AFM contract.  None of the musicians on that track got credited in the liners, except Joel Peskin...and this is definitely the L.A. version, not Mike's solo version.

I can't really pick out any specific keyboard in the mix (which is pretty dense). There could easily be a Rhodes or CP30-type keyboard ... or even could be a Arp in the strings somewhere.

I'm reviving this thread for two reasons...first, I've since seen the track sheet notations for "Sumahama", and the keyboard track is labeled "Rhodes" - so I guess that mystery is solved!

My second reason for reviving this thread - I had the opportunity to hang out with the band a couple of weeks back, and as usual, I try to ask a couple of meaningful (from an obsessive-minded fan perspective) questions. This time around, I asked Mike and Bruce about this Chamberlin vs. Mellotron debate. I specifically asked them which of the two instruments the band used back in the day - and for what it's worth, they both easily recalled having recorded with the Mellotron, and didn't say anything about the Chamberlin. I've also seen a couple of track sheet notations from the era ("I Went To Sleep" is one that comes to mind) inscribed with "Mellotron" notations. So, whether it was a real Mellotron or actually a Chamberlin, it's clear the band referred to it as a Mellotron.

We were also talking about "Do It Again", and Bruce said the idea to use the stunted delay effect on the drum intro was actually Al's - he said Desper had the Phillips delay unit in the studio (he indicated it was a big machine, about knee-high in size), and Al said, "Why don't we put that on the drum?" - and so they did!