Why do you hate Mike Love?

[Mike's Beard]

You know I really don't get why some of you waste your time coming to this board.

I'm not sure why you do, all you ever do is bitch, bitch, bitch.

Somebody else knocked Brian's solo albums, only in America would people criticize an artist of Brian's magnitude.

Oooops, somebody dared to criticise the demi-god by saying they don't think one of his albums is any good. Try to be a man about it and not cry. BTW, I'm from the UK.

[Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard]

Then he can explain why Somewhere Near Japan didn't count in the dilution department, while BW and AJ's songs did. Maybe it was featured in a documentary on toilets in Osaka or something, I dunno.

Maybe.  Maybe after Landy and Al had broken the concept Mike was receptive enough or sensitive enough to see their vision.

Was Wipeout ever in a movie either?

Yeah, that must have been it 

Please share if you know different.

Ah yes. Perfectly ok for you to throw out baseless speculation, but it's on us to prove you wrong. Just like how Mike wrote Vega-Tables and it's on me to call VDP and prove you wrong, right?

[Cam Mott]

Then he can explain why Somewhere Near Japan didn't count in the dilution department, while BW and AJ's songs did. Maybe it was featured in a documentary on toilets in Osaka or something, I dunno.

Maybe.  Maybe after Landy and Al had broken the concept Mike was receptive enough or sensitive enough to see their vision.

Was Wipeout ever in a movie either?

Yeah, that must have been it  

Please share if you know different.

Ah yes. Perfectly ok for you to throw out baseless speculation, but it's on us to prove you wrong. Just like how Mike wrote Vega-Tables and it's on me to call VDP and prove you wrong, right?

It was a joke reply to ontor's post right there above it. Mike made the claims about the album.

Edit: Well it wasn't "right" above there because I didn't quote it but it includes a joke reply to ontor's previous post:  "Well, you know how Mike is when the rest of the band thwart his concept albums. They just weren't receptive enough or sensitive enough to see his vision."

Also, you don't need to ask VDP (though it would be good) as Mike is an author of record of "Mama Says".

[rab2591]

Oooops, somebody dared to criticise the demi-god by saying they don't think one of his albums is any good. Try to be a man about it and not cry. BTW, I'm from the UK.

You called the album

a real steaming pile of dogshit sh*t

Whatever "dogshit sh*t" is lol. Either way, you criticized the album in a pretty disrespectful way...so it's not surprising a couple people got offended by it. And no one is crying about it, just pointing out the absolutely childish manner in which you knocked the album.

[SMiLE Brian]

More like Pisces brothers is dogshit.

[The Cincinnati Kid]

More like Pisces brothers is dogshit.

Speaking of childish. 

[Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard]

Then he can explain why Somewhere Near Japan didn't count in the dilution department, while BW and AJ's songs did. Maybe it was featured in a documentary on toilets in Osaka or something, I dunno.

Maybe.  Maybe after Landy and Al had broken the concept Mike was receptive enough or sensitive enough to see their vision.

Was Wipeout ever in a movie either?

Yeah, that must have been it  

Please share if you know different.

Ah yes. Perfectly ok for you to throw out baseless speculation, but it's on us to prove you wrong. Just like how Mike wrote Vega-Tables and it's on me to call VDP and prove you wrong, right?

It was a joke reply to ontor's post right there above it. Mike made the claims about the album.

Edit: Well it wasn't "right" above there because I didn't quote it but it includes a joke reply to ontor's previous post:  "Well, you know how Mike is when the rest of the band thwart his concept albums. They just weren't receptive enough or sensitive enough to see his vision."

Also, you don't need to ask VDP (though it would be good) as Mike is an author of record of "Mama Says".

You're a miracle

[Mike's Beard]

you criticized the album in a pretty disrespectful way...so it's not surprising a couple people got offended by it. And no one is crying about it, just pointing out the absolutely childish manner in which you knocked the album.

A turd by any other name is still a turd. And I only mentioned NPP in the first place because YOU used SIP poor sales figures as a reflection of it's musical content. Well NPP has only sold twice as much as that did and that's with all the internet hype and coming off the back of a #3 reunion record. Yet you no doubt think NPP is a great record, so your argument falls apart.

[SMiLE Brian]

There is no comparison between music sales in 1992 and 2015. 

[Cam Mott]

Then he can explain why Somewhere Near Japan didn't count in the dilution department, while BW and AJ's songs did. Maybe it was featured in a documentary on toilets in Osaka or something, I dunno.

Maybe.  Maybe after Landy and Al had broken the concept Mike was receptive enough or sensitive enough to see their vision.

Was Wipeout ever in a movie either?

Yeah, that must have been it  

Please share if you know different.

Ah yes. Perfectly ok for you to throw out baseless speculation, but it's on us to prove you wrong. Just like how Mike wrote Vega-Tables and it's on me to call VDP and prove you wrong, right?

It was a joke reply to ontor's post right there above it. Mike made the claims about the album.

Edit: Well it wasn't "right" above there because I didn't quote it but it includes a joke reply to ontor's previous post:  "Well, you know how Mike is when the rest of the band thwart his concept albums. They just weren't receptive enough or sensitive enough to see his vision."

Also, you don't need to ask VDP (though it would be good) as Mike is an author of record of "Mama Says".

You're a miracle

Thanks.

[Mike's Beard]

There is no comparison between music sales in 1992 and 2015. 

Oh, so NPP would have been a massive hit if half a million people didn't download it from a torrent site, gotcha.

[SMiLE Brian]

It was a hit, only you seem to deny that.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

By today's standards it was. The industry has changed massively. Just like TWGMTR hitting #3 was huge . Most albums peek during their initial week.

[The Cincinnati Kid]

It was a hit, only you seem to deny that.

It was not a hit, sorry.  Though I will say some of that is due to marketing.

[rab2591]

you criticized the album in a pretty disrespectful way...so it's not surprising a couple people got offended by it. And no one is crying about it, just pointing out the absolutely childish manner in which you knocked the album.

A turd by any other name is still a turd. And I only mentioned NPP in the first place because YOU used SIP poor sales figures as a reflection of it's musical content. Well NPP has only sold twice as much as that did and that's with all the internet hype and coming off the back of a #3 reunion record. Yet you no doubt think NPP is a great record, so your argument falls apart.

Funny because NPP actually charted....did SIP? Uhhhh no. I used poor sales figures and other examples as a reflection of SIP's musical content - but let's ignore the other examples because they completely refute your point. Coming off the back of a #3 reunion record? One thing missing from NPP that TWGMTR had was the name 'The Beach Boys'....no sh*t it went to #3 with that name, whereas Brian Wilson's name and music is lesser known to the public.

[rab2591]

By today's standards it was. The industry has changed massively. Just like TWGMTR hitting #3 was huge . Most albums peek during their initial week.

Yeah, but now you're bringing logic into this....which goes completely over some people's heads here.

[Empire Of Love]

you criticized the album in a pretty disrespectful way...so it's not surprising a couple people got offended by it. And no one is crying about it, just pointing out the absolutely childish manner in which you knocked the album.

A turd by any other name is still a turd. And I only mentioned NPP in the first place because YOU used SIP poor sales figures as a reflection of it's musical content. Well NPP has only sold twice as much as that did and that's with all the internet hype and coming off the back of a #3 reunion record. Yet you no doubt think NPP is a great record, so your argument falls apart.

Do you honestly think the reason a Beach Boys record in the early 90s (or whenever SIP was released) didn't sell is the same reason a Brian Wilson album isn't selling in 2015?  Further, you are isolating one part of the argument to the neglect of the full argument.  Poor sales when sales were robust plus critical panning plus terrible production plus bad music (I would argue) = SIP.  On the other hand, NPP has poor sales in a radically different music environment, received some critical praise, one song has won an award, the production, while far better than SIP, is admittedly too "AOR" for my ears, and the songs are pretty good, some excellent (in my opinion).  And of course a BW release does not have the benefit of the BB brand name, which carries a lot of weight.  In fact, I would argue that the general public wants to hear either Brian's falsetto or Mike's signature lead.  Furthermore, youth sells.  So as far as sales are concerned, NPP is handicapped, in the golf sense, in at least three regards:

1. By not having the BB brand attached
2. By being released in a sales environment drastically less robust than when SIP was released.  
3. The performer is 20+ years older, and in fact can be considered elderly

The point being, low album sales in the early 90s says a lot more about an album than low album sales in 2015, which is why you have to consider not just the other points of the argument, but you also have to "grade on a curve" in regards to sales.  So the argument in total, not just the single bit you chose to isolate because it fits your POV, does not at all fall apart.  But you knew that, you just picked the easy target and ignored the rest.

EoL

[SMiLE Brian]

I don't think Mike's rumored solo album or Pisces brothers would have charted in 1992 or 2015 due to a lack of songwriting talent from ML without BW.

[Mike's Beard]

you criticized the album in a pretty disrespectful way...so it's not surprising a couple people got offended by it. And no one is crying about it, just pointing out the absolutely childish manner in which you knocked the album.

A turd by any other name is still a turd. And I only mentioned NPP in the first place because YOU used SIP poor sales figures as a reflection of it's musical content. Well NPP has only sold twice as much as that did and that's with all the internet hype and coming off the back of a #3 reunion record. Yet you no doubt think NPP is a great record, so your argument falls apart.

Funny because NPP actually charted....did SIP? Uhhhh no. I used poor sales figures and other examples as a reflection of SIP's musical content - but let's ignore the other examples because they completely refute your point.

Errrrm, I did argue all your other examples.

[Mike's Beard]

Do you honestly think the reason a Beach Boys record in the early 90s (or whenever SIP was released) didn't sell is the same reason a Brian Wilson album isn't selling in 2015?  

The point I am making is that using sales figures to back up the quality of an album is not always a clear cut method, if it was then Sunflower would be one of the worst records the BBs ever made

[rab2591]

you criticized the album in a pretty disrespectful way...so it's not surprising a couple people got offended by it. And no one is crying about it, just pointing out the absolutely childish manner in which you knocked the album.

A turd by any other name is still a turd. And I only mentioned NPP in the first place because YOU used SIP poor sales figures as a reflection of it's musical content. Well NPP has only sold twice as much as that did and that's with all the internet hype and coming off the back of a #3 reunion record. Yet you no doubt think NPP is a great record, so your argument falls apart.

Funny because NPP actually charted....did SIP? Uhhhh no. I used poor sales figures and other examples as a reflection of SIP's musical content - but let's ignore the other examples because they completely refute your point.

Errrrm, I did argue all your other examples.

Errrrm, your initial argument was that "SIP is a middling latter day release such as KTSA, BB85 and Still Crusin' and would be viewed as such by many Brianistas if Brian had even minimal involvement in it"

The fact that SIP was the first Beach Boys studio album that failed to chart, the fact it had no singles that charted, the fact that it sold less than 10,000 copies upon release, the fact that Beach Boy historians Andrew G Doe and John Tobler called it "the absolute nadir of their recording career", the fact that it isn't sold anymore, the fact that no one in Beach Boys management seems to be eager to re-release it makes it an entirely different animal from KTSA, BB85, and Still Cruisin.

It's completely laughable that you think Brianistas hate SIP because Brian wasn't a part of it.

[elnombre]

I think Stars and Stripes is a far worse album, I've managed to listen to that stinker about twice.

I'd say musically S&S is far better. It's just that the whole project is redundant if you're a BBs fan. I have versions with them singing leads, why would I want to listen to them being relegated to bvs?

SIP isn't despised because it's Mike-led, it's despised because in many places it is, for want of a better word, offensive. The desecration of Surfin', the repulsive come-on's of Summer of Love, then the pillaging of Dennis' soul (but not before first dressing it up like a $5 hooker) of Forever...

These are things as a fan of the band and the legacy that you can actually feel angry about. What is there to genuinely hate on S&S other than the fact that it's a bit sh*t?

[elnombre]

you criticized the album in a pretty disrespectful way...so it's not surprising a couple people got offended by it. And no one is crying about it, just pointing out the absolutely childish manner in which you knocked the album.

A turd by any other name is still a turd. And I only mentioned NPP in the first place because YOU used SIP poor sales figures as a reflection of it's musical content. Well NPP has only sold twice as much as that did and that's with all the internet hype and coming off the back of a #3 reunion record. Yet you no doubt think NPP is a great record, so your argument falls apart.

It's not 1992 anymore. Bands were still selling in excess of 6 or 7 million copies back then. Now they throw a party if they hit 200,000. For a 73 year old artist in 2015 Brian's sales are more than respectable.

[The LEGENDARY OSD]

you criticized the album in a pretty disrespectful way...so it's not surprising a couple people got offended by it. And no one is crying about it, just pointing out the absolutely childish manner in which you knocked the album.

A turd by any other name is still a turd. And I only mentioned NPP in the first place because YOU used SIP poor sales figures as a reflection of it's musical content. Well NPP has only sold twice as much as that did and that's with all the internet hype and coming off the back of a #3 reunion record. Yet you no doubt think NPP is a great record, so your argument falls apart.

Funny because NPP actually charted....did SIP? Uhhhh no. I used poor sales figures and other examples as a reflection of SIP's musical content - but let's ignore the other examples because they completely refute your point. Coming off the back of a #3 reunion record? One thing missing from NPP that TWGMTR had was the name 'The Beach Boys'....no sh*t it went to #3 with that name, whereas Brian Wilson's name and music is lesser known to the public.

I might add that NPP has deservedly gotten a fair amount of airplay on satellite radio as did TWGMTR whereas SIP garnered absolutely none that I am aware of in this market.

[SMiLE Brian]

I think the only Airplay SIP got was in Mike Love's house.