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So I have heard so much about BW being blown away by Rubber Soul and being inspired to try to make an album that was even better.  But I haven't ever heard too much about BW's reaction to Revolver.  I wonder what BW thought of a song like Tomorrow Never Knows.  In some ways he kind of responded to that song with Mrs. O'Leary's Cow.  The two songs have a few similarities.  I also wonder when BW heard Revolver.  In America a good chunk of Revolver came out July, 16 '66 on Yesterday and Today.  The actual American version of Revolver (the UK album minus I'm Only Sleeping, Dr. Robert, And Your Bird Can Sing) didn't come out until 9/10/66.  But Brian was a pretty well connected guy, and I wonder if he would have scored (from Derek Taylor perhaps) a copy of the UK Revolver which came out 8/5/66.  I would imagine there was plenty for BW to dig on either the UK or US Revolver, especially tracks that showed his influence.  Strange that I haven't every read anything about his reaction, and there is so many references to BW and Rubber Soul.

PS
What version of Rubber Soul do you think blew Brian way that magical night in the fall of '65?  The Capitol Rubber Soul is a pretty different album, more folkish.  Oddly, unlike many of Capitol's mangling of Beatles records, the American Rubber Soul is a pretty smooth listen, even if it has a couple tracks that should have been on Help (It's Only Love and I've Just Seen a Face) and is missing, among others, Drive My Car and Nowhere Man.  I've always wondered which version of Rubber Soul is the one that hit BW so hard.

I saw a quote from him somewhere when somebody asked him which version of rubber soul he heard, uk or american and he said it was the american version.

Given that Brian has always said that it was the unity of sound that blew him away on Rubber Soul -- and that the unity of sound exists pretty much only on the U.S. version -- that's undoubtedly the one.

Ironic that he was inspired to make his grand concept album in response to an album that was actually sequenced by the record company.

What is the tracklist of the US Rubber soul?

Side one

1. "I've Just Seen a Face"   
2. "Norwegian Wood (This Bird Has Flown)" 
3. "You Won't See Me"   
4. "Think for Yourself"
5. "The Word"   
6. "Michelle"  

Side two

7. "It's Only Love" 
8. "Girl"   
9. "I'm Looking Through You"   
10. "In My Life"   
11. "Wait"   
12. "Run for Your Life"   

What's funny is that when I first read about Brian's comments regarding Rubber Soul, I realized that was exactly how I felt about it-all the songs fit perfectly together. The UK version isn't nearly as good, IMO.

As far as Revolver, I believe that's the album he's referring to in the 'Hello, Surfing..' article.

'I'm doing the spiritual sound, a white spirtual sound. Religious music. Did you hear the Beatles album? Religious, right? That's where I'm going. It's going to scare a lot of people'.

And you know, for someone like Brian who was always into spirtuality and love and making music people would emotionally relate to, that quote seems pretty strange....

One could wonder if stuff like Tomorrow Never Knows was interesting enough to Brian to do the kind of experiments he did in the studio.

I read something pretty funny once. Something like, "Brian Wilson has said Rubber Soul inspired him because it was a perfectly crafted statement from the band. It should be noted, however, that Wilson had heard the American version, which was assembled by Capitol Records with no input from the Beatles."

Damnit ! Ths would've knocked me out too ! Much more so than the UK-version which I have. Thanks for posting.

Nah, too samey. Give me variety, like in Rubber Soul (UK), Help (UK), Today and Summer Days. You see, this American Rubber Sould screwed the band's career. It was all downhill after Per Sounds.  :)

You also lose the punchline of the album's title.You can't call it Rubber Soul if you take something that's R & B influenced as Drive My Car and replace it with the folksy I've Just Seen A Face.

Exactly. I may be known by my bad taste, but I'm just not ready to cheer for the substitution of 'Drive My Car' for filler like 'It's Only Love'.

I think both songs are killer (IOL is probably my very favorite Lennon-song). But imo "Drive my car" rocks a little too hard compared to the rest of the album

What I never figured out was if Capitol intended the US Rubber Soul to be the Beatles' folk rock album, why did they not include If I Needed Someone? George practically stole the Byrds's verson of Bells of Rhymney for IINS.

I'd agree with It's Only Love being filler. I'd also add I've Just Seen A face to the filler list. But then again Beatles filler is better than most 60's band's killer songs. At least I think so.

Weird. I know its a song which Lennon always labeled as one of his most embarrassing songs, but it has always been one of my faves... but then again I love When Girls Get Together. There is no accounting for taste.  :p

I won't begin to judge the merits of its inclusion on Revolver but I can sure say that it made a great opening number on Paul's recent tour.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjII3yywsUg

BTW, for those in the US... if/when you see the Cowboys' game Sunday night against the Giants realize that the scoreboard (which a lot of us have heard about) in that stadium cost twice the expense of the entire former Cowboys' stadium built in 1971 in Irving, TX.

You mean Rubber Soul. ;)

Interesting thought on "IINS"- hadn't thought of it that way. 

"It's Only Love" is a huge favorite of mine- I think Lennon focused on disliking the lyrics, which lack his usual edge- but I liked for him to write without that edge sometimes.  "Run For Your Life" was a big favorite of mine when I was a kid, and I think Lennon hated that one too, possibly for cribbing a few lyrics from "Baby, Let's Play House".  But no real crime there.

You mean Yesterday and Today.

I wonder which song on Revolver BW was referring to as "religious music"?  Tomorrow Never Knows has the Tibetan Book of the Dead influence, which I guess counts as religious.  Maybe it is certain qualities in the music of many songs on the album that he thought had a spiritual sound, like church music or something.  Maybe something like Here There and Everywhere.

which was directly inspired by pet sounds, was it not?

According to Kim Fowley, which of course makes it immediately suspect.  :)

Ummm... care to show me the quote that explicitly states Brian was referencing Revolver when he said that ?  He just mentions the band. This is how myths evolve - from something that wasn't said in the first place.

This is true.

I took a listen to the two filler tunes added the US Rubber Soul album....it is a great folky feel...and I agree drive my car is a bit pop-ier than the rest of the album...

but I'd love to see someone construct a fan-edit of Rubber Soul with IJSAF and IOL and DMC, NM, and IINS; in their own places of course..mabye with alt/outtakes? or add 12 - bar original to it? (the 12 minute version   ;D)

Oh gosh, 12 - bar original should have been erased the minute after it was recorded.  :police: It's their Hawthorne Boulevard.  :-D

good call

Now if only 12 Bar Blues had John Lennon lyrics/vocals... hmm.

or it didnt have such a Green Onions vibe.


It actually reminds me of the BB instrumentals pre-Summer Days; simple kinda jams with a basic structure...kinda surprised it wasn't anymore creative, but it was pre-rubber Soul I reckon...Anyone find it wierd in the lack of instrumentals in the Beatles catalog? besides Flying, which isn't that great, hell, Passing By is better....I've heard a better version of Flying with more sounds and such. any other instrumentals in their cannon? (official/unofficial)

The quote we are referring to is from the Jules Siegel Goodbye Surfing, Hello God article.  BW says to Siegel: "I'm doing the spiritual sound, a white spiritual sound.  Religious music.  Did you hear the Beatles album?  Religious, right?  That's the whole movement.  That's where I'm going.  It's going to scare a lot of people."  The question is, which Beatles album is he referring to?  In late 1966 "the Beatles album" could be referring to the latest release, which at the time was Revolver.  But who knows if this is actually the case--thus my question on the subject.  Could have been Rubber Soul, could have been Yesterday and Today.  I am just wondering what he was seeing in the Beatles output that was "religious."

IOL may not be as innovative or substantial as Drive My Car, but IMO it hardly qualifies as "filler", and neither does I've Just Seen A Face. I love both (the Anthology version of IOL is
even better). Now Run For Your Life, on the other hand...

While it's possible that Brian was still so blown away by Rubber Soul a year after its initial release that he thought it was obviously THE "Beatles album," I tend to think that he probably meant Revolver.  When he says,  "That's the whole movement," it's hard to imagine that he meant that Rubber Soul, an album from a year earlier, was the best example of a then-current "movement."  From the context, whatever the latest Beatles album was (i.e., Revolver) makes the most sense.

http://www.avclub.com/articles/chuck-klosterman-repeats-the-beatles,32560/

 ;D

Acid'll do that to ya...  :o

Look deep enough into other definitions of what people define as religious other than the western perspective and perhaps you will find out

For example, maybe to Brian, 'Got To Get You Into My Life' was about religion.

 I would think that, IF the album in question is Revolver (and even if it isn't, I'm sure he still listened to it at some point), 'Tomorrow Never Knows' must have blown his mind.

Which TV drama was it where Brian is a vegetable laying around the house listening to 'Sgt. Pepper' over and over?

the lyrics to tomorrow never knows are based on the tibetan book of the dead translation by richard alpert and timothy leary, popular to read whilst dropping acid as a means to experiencing the loss of the self, or ego death.

I definitely think Brian was talking about Revolver. Rubber Soul was the sound of the Beatles discovering marijuana. Revolver was the sound of the Beatles discovering LSD. The spiritualness of Revolver goes well beyond the obviousness of "Tomorrow Never Knows". Lennon is in fine guru form here, from the ego death of "She Said She Said" to the proto-"Strawberry Fields Forever" lyrics of "And Your Bird Can Sing", and the dropping out mentality of "I'm Only Sleeping". Harrison's "Love You To" is tinged with Eastern mysticism, and the lyrics remind of a modern take on the Rubaiyat of Omar Khayyam. McCartney's balladeering here is especially inspired, with the more mature takes on love, like "For No One" and "Here, There, and Everwhere" chasing the same spiritual feeling as Brian did on Pet Sounds. And how about "Good Day Sunshine"? What an uplifting feeling in the chorus, it's like a spiritual. "Yellow Submarine" has that same childlike lightheartedness Brian would later try to capture with "Vegetables". He felt that humor opened up people to spiritual experiences.

I can see where Brian was coming from.

Well stated Dada.

Back on the topic of Rubber Soul:  Jim Fusilli says (in his book Pet Sounds) that BW heard the American Rubber Soul.  I don't know how he knows this, but he seems credible.

I imagine just plain common sense dictates that BW heard the american one.

I'm sure there is an interview with Brian where he singles out Norwegian Wood for it's artistic and commercial merits. I believe he held NW as an example of the level at which he and the BB's should be operating. Anyone else remember this? Might have been on that Brian Live on tour DVD.

You have to keep in mind And Your Bird Can Sing and I'm Only Sleeping weren't on the American release.

 :lol You're right, and it turns out that "Doctor Robert" wasn't  on the U.S. Revolver, either, leaving only two Lennon songs on the album (sure, the songs were credited to Lennon/McCartney, but I think by then listeners, especially those as musically astute as Brian, could pick up on the now notable differences in their styles). What a ridiculous arrangement. I wonder what old Johnny boy thought about that, if he knew about it, that is.

I don't remember the particular example you're referring to, but in one of the contemporary articles in LLVS, Brian mentions Norwegian Wood while pointing out that the Beatles are so good because they can make their songs work with very basic and simple arrangements.  He mentions that if it were his song, he would have orchestrated it, put in background voices, etc., but the fact that they could do it with just an acoustic guitar, sitar and tambourine is what makes them so good.

In fact that's what Jan&Dean did on their version

Remember those Beatles' cartoons? You don't? Well, the opening "theme song" for the cartoons (third season?) was "And Your Bird Can Sing". An interesting choice. Does anybody remember what the "closing song" was?

I think they definitely knew and were angry about it. I think the butcher cover of Yesterday... was a protest of sorts against it

Cool. Yeah. Thought I'd heard NW brought up somehow.

Thanks

Paul is dead

Someone should've started a similar meme with the Beach Boys. Who would it have been though? Mike? The replacement Mike is the guy with the beard, the hats, the forays into mysticism... it would be more difficult to pull off since their lyrics aren't as cryptic on the whole and have less room for conspiratorial interpretation.


The original Mike Love in fact died of food poisoning while on his first trip to India.

In order to cover up this controversy the Beatles and Maharishi slipped out of the commune one night and found, hidden away in a leper colony, an albino Indian of similar height, build and facial structure as the deceased Mike Love.

Whisking him away back to the commune, traveling by Maharishi's magic carpet, they first stopped at a local farm and shaved a sacred cow of its reddish hair and carefully glued it to the face of the albino Indian to match Mike's beard.

Once back, they dumped the body of old-Mike in the Ganges and Paul McCartney hurriedly began teaching the new Mike all the Beach Boys songs.

Later that day, after mastering the Beach Boys sound and style, new-Mike helped Paul write lyrics to a song he was working on called "Back In The U.S.S.R".

Once back in the states, new-Mike's funny behavior was written off as his exposure to Maharishi's teachings. That or the food.

(http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/1733/beachboyspressensbild19.jpg)

Dennis looks like someone I know in that picture. I also find it funny that Mike looks the same.

I would say that Brian was replaced by an imposter in 1974 when he went into the institute. They sort of trained him for the next two years and in 1976 he was ready to perform. Unfortunately, the fake Brian was even more crazy. In 1983, Brian was out of the intsitute and back. But this time he would keep his distance from the band mates that drove him mad.

an stupid question but, why  two versions? im not a beatles fan

Capitol were fond of cutting up Beatles albums from their original UK versions to make 'new albums' from the tracks cut off from separate releases - For instance, the tracks missing from the UK Rubber Soul ended up with tracks cut up from Revolver, and whatever singles they had just released to make an album called 'Yesterday & Today!', and thus be marketing a 'new' Beatles product.

and the sound of both was the same? i mean, was capitol allowed to masteting the tunes?

I THINK so..... I know maybe some of the early ones had different mixes, you can get them on the 'Capitol Albums' boxes. For the most part, i think the difference is minimal.

'I'm Looking Through You' on  the U.S. version of Rubber Soul has the screwup left in at the beginning of it (it's a false start). It doesn't sound that bad, either, for a 'mistake'.

I find the UK Rubber Soul to be a much better listen than the US version

No, the sound was quite different -- usually (but not always) the US copies were from tapes a couple of generations down from the British masters. There was a *lot* of added reverb and compression, to make the songs sound closer to the contemporary American style, and several mono-only singles had duophonic versions on the Capitol albums.

If I'm remembering right, there are also a couple of songs where slightly longer mixes were used on the US versions. (I *think* I'll Be Back was one? I don't have my reference books in front of me).

Almost all the changes were for the worse, but many American fans from the pre-CD era still prefer the US versions because that's what they're used to, and so there are expensive box sets of them.