Like most everyone else I don't know and have no idea what was done in the mastering process of these tracks. What I do know, and what everyone who is even a bit of an audiophile will probably say, is the majority of modern mastering is too damn loud and overcompressed to allow for that. McCartney had a quote about Paperback Writer being the track where they wanted a Beatles single to be as loud and as present as the Motown singles they were hearing - and he and others were saying they were all going for maximum volume at that time so their songs would cut through on the radio and jukeboxes.

More volume also comes with certain frequencies being boosted, and someone hearing a track like Heroes mastered in 2011's standards might feel a different texture or hear certain bands come out more than on, say, a 1991 version of the same track. That's basic audio most of us already know and can demonstrate in our collections. More details and different textures are heard until you push the volume level into distortion, so a "hidden" guitar part might suddenly jump out due to the mastering.

What I want to know is - as someone who has never "mastered" a song professionally but who has hired professionals to master mixes and songs I've been involved with - what is the mindset behind the current mastering of the Smile catalog? Was it going for a 2011 standard of higher volume and more compression to reach that volume (extreme examples being Metallica, Californication, etc...), or was a 1967 sensibility considered for these tracks?

Meaning were these tracks boosted and EQ'ed to sound good on ear buds and iPods and small portable speakers, or were they thought of and was the mastering performed as they would have been mastered for a 1967 release?

I know it's esoteric and wonkish to a point, but at the same time I'd really like to hear what the mindset would be going into a monumental project such as the Smile box set knowing it will be held under a microscope when it does come out. Were the final mixes mastered by Mark Linett as well, or did they send them elsewhere?

So, you watch the video of Brian singing Surf’s Up at the piano and tell me that he doesn’t think this is one of the best pieces of music he’s ever written.  People are telling him it’s fantastic, it’s featured on a nationally televised show on CBS with Leonard Bernstein praising it as the new direction of pop music, and then he junks it because a lot of people just don’t like it?  I don’t buy it.

I'll say this: Inside Pop is one of my favorite pieces of 60's TV, and Brian's performance from the first time I saw it was stunning, beautiful, and as compelling a solo performance as might be possible in that context. Until I saw the full program, I was hoping there may have been more to Brian's appearance than what was edited into the show (teaser at the beginning, edited performance near the end)...but that performance is a milestone.

What blew my mind was finding out years after watching the performance - through recollections that may have included Vosse, Anderle, and others who were there - that Brian had to be coaxed and prodded into that performance.

DISCLAIMER: If anyone can fill in the gaps here with those actual quotes, it would be much appreciated!

So by those accounts, if accurate, Brian was not into doing that song on camera the night it was filmed, and I think those others in the room all but forced him to attempt that performance...perhaps suggesting they thought the song was more worthy of a wider audience than Brian himself, I don't know. Those accounts put a new perspective on that incredible performance, and removed what we actually saw of it on Inside Pop versus accounts of him doing a similar thing for the cameras at the studio as reported by Jules Seigel.

It takes a pretty thick skin to wade into some of the discussions and debates.

I can't get it out of my head how these reported mistakes and inaccurate bits of information managed to make it to this magazine and into readers' hands without someone editing the content.

Not to take it out on everyone involved because I have not seen it with my own eyes, but I've seen some of the most passionate, accurate, and informative writing on Smile and the Smile-era in general offered for free, coming from authors and writers (pro, semi-pro, and amateur) whose connection to the music is more honest than those hired to write columns full of factual errors and historical blunders. Mistakes happen, sure, and everyone is human, but it is hard to top some of the writing I have seen posted online. That is a testament to the devotion and knowledge of those fans who have added more to the Smile legacy than some people would give them credit.

Fandom is nice thing, but bankruptcy is something else entirely.

This is as good a quote as I've seen recently - suitable for T-shirts and mass-production!

It's true, though, and after reading through what is actually in the MOJO issue I think I may pass for now and check Ebay in a month when demand has weakened. For one, I am also saving money I might not have for the big box set...and for another, my main thing with the MOJO was the new photos if there were any. And it sounds like we got the ground chuck of the crop...why put a photo of Munich in a Smile issue when there are so many Jasper and Guy Webster photos available??? Anyway...

No studio stuff - outtake from the Paradise Cove shoot, Hamburg 1966 shot (backstage, B&W), POP 1966 (Brian in those hideous check pants, B&W)

Thanks for the info - maybe they're giving us the chuck roast now and saving the filet for the box set...

Any details on the new photos? That's my biggest anticipation - and I won't be able to get the issue until at least the weekend, if any stores 'round here even carry it.

Sounds like a sloppy editorial job on the text.

It just made me a little sad to think about these Cabinessence tracks and sessions and multis being discussed...remember that some of these group vocal sessions were filmed by CBS for "Inside Pop" with details like "Doyn Doyn..." noted in Oppenheim's notes, and I'm thinking unless someone has worked a miracle, these films will most likely never be seen. What better place to have them than this box set project? That is, if they were available to be had.

With all due respect to Ian and Cam, what you're saying isn't taking into consideration the timeline I posted here regarding when Brian would have appeared on the show for the solo appearance, and as evidenced by the photo with Vosse by his side at that appearance. I thought I had laid it out pretty well with the printed evidence, but maybe not...

If the record appeared on KHJ surveys as a hitbound in the September 28 issue, and the "official" release was Monday October 10th, how are you suggesting a later date than that? The Billboard column *specifically* mentions KHJ-TV's "Boss City" being the first outlet to premiere the single on television versus the radio, and that was the crux of the story...a single going straight to TV before radio for its first airplay. If it was a KHJ hitbound on the air the week of September 28, the TV premiere would have had to be around that date too.

I apologize, I didn't see the Billboard article, where was that? That would be different, I was just noting that Vosse's account of when he started didn't square with the early dates.

It's in Billboard dated 12/3/66: Billboard

Something would seem to be a little off kilter in all of this, tho. It's very hard to believe that Capitol would have a record on TV OR radio TWO weeks before it's available for sale.
While there's the potential to build sales momentum, it could easily go the way of frustration and have buyers go elsewhere for other records?
 So how to balance it all. ( I'm clueless) 

It might be easier to see all of this backstory through the lens of Los Angeles radio's inner workings. The impression I got reading various accounts was that it was a highly competitive, cutthroat, take-no-prisoners market among the pop and "teen" AM stations especially KHJ (the new upstart) and KRLA (the established pro). The two stations would try to beat each other to get the "exclusive", premiere airings and therefore get the national attention. And that included theft of ideas and also outright attempts at sabotage.

KHJ and KRLA were both trendsetters nationwide for different reasons, and if doing something like taking a single straight to television for a premiere rather than radio would make waves in the industry nationwide and get press attention (as KHJ did with GV), it was an easy sell to Capitol: Give-and-take, you give us the premiere, we'll play the hell out of this record and talk it up. It was a win-win situation, and in the cycle of the charts at that time a few weeks of airplay pre-release was building momentum within the LA market which was being monitored across the country. If industry folks in LA heard the record being pushed heavily, they'd go back to their own territories ready to talk up the single in their own markets. And perhaps start pre-ordering for their local shops and jukeboxes so they had it for the official release.

I also have to factor in "The Monkees" tv show which was just getting started in September 1966. Yes, the "Last Train To Clarksville" single was released prior to the show's premiere, but as those first episodes aired I'm sure KHJ and others were getting requests for Monkees songs which had been heard only on that TV show...and perhaps someone like Ron Jacobs got the idea of doing the same thing - premiering a record on TV and creating a demand, even if the record wasn't available to buy. Those early Monkees episodes had songs which never appeared on a single or album, yet the demand was there from the TV audience.

Having spent the weekend in Manhattan, I stopped into the Borders bookstore at Columbus Circle yesterday afternoon and was disappointed they did not have the MOJO issue available. Does anyone have any new information on which stores in the US may already be carrying it in-store without having to order online?

With all due respect to Ian and Cam, what you're saying isn't taking into consideration the timeline I posted here regarding when Brian would have appeared on the show for the solo appearance, and as evidenced by the photo with Vosse by his side at that appearance. I thought I had laid it out pretty well with the printed evidence, but maybe not...

If the record appeared on KHJ surveys as a hitbound in the September 28 issue, and the "official" release was Monday October 10th, how are you suggesting a later date than that? The Billboard column *specifically* mentions KHJ-TV's "Boss City" being the first outlet to premiere the single on television versus the radio, and that was the crux of the story...a single going straight to TV before radio for its first airplay. If it was a KHJ hitbound on the air the week of September 28, the TV premiere would have had to be around that date too.

OK, maybe it wasn't too much before, sometime prior to the release of GV but after it was completed. So September 21 to October 10? Was it ever discovered when that Boss City appearance was?

Boss City aired on KHJ-TV Saturday afternoons, and I believe it was a live broadcast...and of course please correct that if I'm wrong about the live part. Plugging in the known facts: The single was officially released in the US October 10, 1966 which was a Monday. It appeared as a KHJ "Hitbound" on the September 28th survey. The fact that KHJ premiered the single first on TV before radio - a big deal at the time apparently - might make the date of the Boss City show Saturday September 24. Much like the Heroes And Villains discussion we had a few weeks ago, it would make sense to premiere the song on Boss City the Saturday before it would appear first on the survey, then they'd have played it with the "KHJ exclusive" voiceover that week of Sept. 26...Just a guess.

I meant any images or captures of the crew for the GV shoot.

My understanding is that Vosse had contact with Brian for an interview and through Anderle etc. for some period before he went on the payroll. The week or so before Michigan was when he went on the payroll as I understood it.

That makes sense, I just wasn't calculating the timeline in my head with the difference between Vosse being a part of the circle of friends around Brian and actually drawing a salary working for Brian and/or the Beach Boys.

I don't recall any images of the crew turning up: there is one shot of Diane and Vosse standing with the firemen, but I don't recall a shot of the film crew. The only outtakes I can think of which we've seen "officially" are the ones of Dennis on the firetruck and Brian leading a Coke bottle symphony where the Beach Boys are blowing into Coke bottles. Maybe Alan Boyd can confirm if there are any other outtakes from this day beyond those few silent shots.

Maybe Deschanel could identify him from the picture.

Maybe it is the mysterious "Bob Gordon/Gordan"? Anyone have more photos from that shoot that show the crew? Seems like there is one showing Vosse.

Edit: we must have just assumed Deschanel was a videographer on the film because Vosse only said Deschanel "helped out as a favor".

Vosse remembers flying with Brian to Chicago/Michigan in his first "few days" or "after only a week" of starting for the BBs so the filming possibly happened in the week prior.

Cam, do you mean photos of the actual promo film? Because Vosse is a main player in the film, and Diane Rovell is shown with the firemen too...as far as still shots from the day of filming I've only seen the one posted above in this thread.

It was speculated - and I use that term specifically - that the lanky man with the shades and the cameras hung around his neck shown prominently in the film was Mr. Gordon/Gordan. I've never seen nor heard any further conformation of that, but if Gordon/Gordan were shooting photos and hanging around Brian at this time, it would make sense. He also turns up on audio of a GV studio session where he's shooting what sounds like a film camera (versus still) and making too much noise during a take.

Assuming that was Gordon with the shades in the film, that's not him with the pro camera crouching with Brian. But that's assuming the guy with the shades is Gordon!

The last quote: Did Vosse only start working for the band officially in late October? That seems late to me, especially in light of the airport photo showing what I thought was a close-knit group of friends and associates, and if Vosse had just started associating with Brian a week before that wouldn't make sense. Maybe he meant working for them for pay versus being friends with Brian? I'm confused.

Thank you Mr Boyd for the information.

It is a photo taken during the shooting of "GV" promo film, correct?
So this is not Caleb Deschanel, any idea who is the cameraman?

That is indeed the promo shoot, notice the open cab firetruck in the background which is also in the promo, and some buildings which made the film too.

After Alan Boyd's newest information, does anyone know who is behind the camera? Very interesting new info!

For those interested, the firehouse where that promo was filmed is now the Los Angeles Fire Department Museum, formerly Fire Station 27 which covered Hollywood back in the day when it was an active company. If you visit there as a Beach Boys fan you can see the pole which Mike slid down and Brian slid down and up in the film!

I tend to think that it was shooting the promo film for "Good Vibrations" that gave Brian the idea to do "Fire"...or else Brian just had firetrucks and helmets on his mind the whole fall of '66.

What I didn't know was that Caleb Deschanel had shot the footage - I wonder if his daughter knew about this or mentioned it to Brian when she interviewed him a few years back.

The photo of Brian and him with a camera filming that promo has been around for years, I'm hoping/guessing someone would have pointed it out!

And in one of the late 90's docs, there was silent footage of Dennis on a firetruck shown from that same promo shoot - and if you recall Dennis isn't really there in the original promo film. Since a lot of the surrounding silent footage came from Dennis' camera, I've wondered where that clip may have come from.

Honestly, the ticket prices for the New Jersey and New York shows are high enough to keep most people from going. Too bad, really. Hope that you have a great time though!

Where have you looked for tickets?   I have found in the last few years that a thorough search yields lower ticket prices.  Start with the venue itself.  Call them on the telephone.  Then go to the venues contracted ticket agent if the venue is not handling any ticket sales.   Random internet searches through search engines can get you to some tickets that are 300 % too high.

Brian's series of shows this weekend in New York are 150 per ticket, at a venue whose prices average 20-30.

I'm amazed the discussion is still active after it was reported that Capitol had nothing to do with this, which means it's a hoax.

And also - I'm not a member of that forum, I don't know who they are or whatever, but if I put myself out there as knowledgeable in all the tech details behind CD burning-ripping-conversion, I'd be able to come up with the following solution if I truly wanted to rip that music: Record the actual audio to a cassette deck, then play and record that analog audio back into any DAW. Simple as that if you truly wanted a quick way to do it. Wouldn't that defeat the ripping/burning protection they're going on about?

The first time I ever saw the GV firehouse promo was on cable network AMC when they had a summer promotion going called "AM-Pop" around 2001 (can't recall), and they'd run beach films, various Scopitones music shorts, etc. in between full-length beach and music films on Saturday nights.

One of the best packages was something I understand Alan Boyd edited together, and it contained the GV film promo (at that point I too thought it was Fire-related), and a capella bit from Friends in a TV studio, an airline or travel commercial featuring Brian at an organ with the other Boys, and the "Little Honda" film which I assumed for years was "Worms", again from American Band.

It was a mind-blower, and I was finally able to track down a copy of the GV promo and became obsessed with it! All this before the "official" releases of course. That AMC series of clips was incredible for its time - very enjoyable and some rare video clips in high quality. Good stuff.

He's describing that same tape box photo which Ed Roach himself debunked on this board a few weeks ago - I guess that photo and those tape boxes were considered legit until the story came out.

I don't remember Ed debunking it. I think he posted a thread about it a few weeks ago, asking for any information on the subject. After a couple of arguments about the authenticity about it, the thread sort of floundered without any hard information in regards to the tape boxes.

Ed debunked the origins of the photo if I recall - the thread got so long it's hard to pinpoint all the details. One issue that stuck out was Ed said it was a Polaroid photo and he never took Polaroids, so it wasn't one of his -  and it was said on pretty good authority later in that thread that it was *not* the Brother tape vaults in that photo.

The issue of the type of tapes and the tape boxes themselves debunks it even more, at least in my opinion. There probably should not be talk of a "Dumb Angel" tape if that photo probably isn't the Brother vault some thought it was years ago.

Sorry for the overlap - similar replies came in as I was typing mine! Hot topic...


Someone suggested earlier this could be someone winding us up...is there *any* confirmation that such a promo was even issued by Capitol beyond that message board post?

So now there is a possibility we'll be getting fan remixes on the box set, if that's indeed the version of GV that appears on the promo sampler?

I seriously hope not, unless it's as separate bonus downloads and clearly labelled as such. I doubt Capitol would cheapen the project in such a way, and if they do, loud will be my complaints. "Here's the sessions for the most important, legendary unreleased rock album of all time... oh, and we've added some lo-fi amateur home-made fan mashups as well." Most prestigious.

Well, arguably they are already at least INSPIRED by fan mixes -- as witnessed by Mark Linett's re-creation of the "Anne Wallace mix" of "Surf's Up." I've always suspected that the structure of the BWPS "Wind Chimes" was influenced by fan mixes more than the "finished" version on the GV box. If Linett takes a particularly spectacular fan mix and re-creates it with the master tapes, I guess I'm OK with it, as long as there's a point to it.

What you're describing as recreating a fan mix is one thing, but actually including a fan remix done by a fan without access to the master tapes as I'm reading into this GV deal would be a very bad move, IMO. The whole appeal of this box set for me is getting closer to the master tapes and thus higher fidelity: A fan mix has none of that, no matter how good it may be.

It would seem very, very unlikely they'd put a fan remix on this, but how else should we read into it if that GV mix was not performed by Mark Linett who I assumed was doing all the mixing for this box set?

So now there is a possibility we'll be getting fan remixes on the box set, if that's indeed the version of GV that appears on the promo sampler?

I seriously hope not, unless it's as separate bonus downloads and clearly labelled as such. I doubt Capitol would cheapen the project in such a way, and if they do, loud will be my complaints. "Here's the sessions for the most important, legendary unreleased rock album of all time... oh, and we've added some lo-fi amateur home-made fan mashups as well." Most prestigious.

My thoughts exactly - not to detract from those folks who did the remixes because that most recent GV was very enjoyable...but at the same time, that's not what I'm paying for on a deluxe box set and I hope they don't include fan mixes.

He's describing that same tape box photo which Ed Roach himself debunked on this board a few weeks ago - I guess that photo and those tape boxes were considered legit until the story came out.

So now there is a possibility we'll be getting fan remixes on the box set, if that's indeed the version of GV that appears on the promo sampler?