The Smiley Smile Message Board

Bit of an general question I know, But I'm interested in what people's views are on this.
My view is that it was in 1982, Because he was (According to Landy and pretty much all who loved Brian) It was only a matter of time (Weeks or a few months) before Brian would OD & die. But as we all know it led to the 3rd rescuse of Brian in 1991, because of the "Treatment" of Landy.
I just think without knowing all the facts of course that Brian was more or less at the point of no return in 1982??.
I'm only asking this question because I personally & my family had the worse year in 2011, But thankfully we all pulled through it and have got stronger as a result.
I hope this question doesn't offend anyone , But I am amazed at the twists and turns of Brian's life, and I thank God I didn't have to suffer as much heartache and emotional pain as Brian did.

Ironically, when I first became a fan and watched interviews without knowing the facts he seemed to be at his lowest in the late 90s. He seemed healthier and more coherent in the 80s. 

I would say physically in the early 80s. Mentally in the 90s. And metaphysically in the 1600s.

There was a time circa 1982 when we were basically waiting for Brian to die. It was almost like being on a deathwatch. That was my experience as a young fan, and I've read similar from those who were close to him at the time.

The fact that he is still around 30 years later is something that we would have considered very unlikely back then. The fact that he's in relatively good shape and performing is little short of miraculous.

This is so sad, because of course 1982 would have been when Dennis was in his last years and visibly on the decline. The whole situation must have been so heartbreaking for the family and the band.

To be honest this is my view too. Sorry I know it's bad of me to say this but maybe in the late 90's doctors was still trying to get the right balance in the meds that Brian was taking, and possibly do all their can to undo the very real damage Landy did late 80's early 90's.??

And I just have to wonder how much of a toll this took on Audree and Carl. The fact that the situation with Landy just dragged on and on and on...

I've been told that the conservatorship battle weighed on Carl very, very heavily.

When I picked up a paper and the headline was 'Beach Boy Drowns' I thought it was going to be Brian. Sad, but thats the way it was. Dennis seemed to have 109 lives.

Not me. When I saw Dennis after a show in August, I realized the end was near. And Carl looked at me as much to say the same. I'm sure my face looked as sick about the situation as Carl's.

Brian was fully with it in 1999 when we did an interview. I would say 1991 because he's like a robot. 1982 he may have been close to death but mentally I never saw Brian in the early 80's act like he did in the very scary 1991 interviews.

Brian seemed together mentally in the mid 70's (at least based on the interview footage I've seen from AMERICAN BAND, Mike Douglas Show, etc.).  The early 80's seemed to be his lowest ebb physically. I've seen some heartbreaking interviews from the early 90's where Brian seems totally out of it.

Can someone  help me understand Landy's prescriptive authority? Wasn't he a clinical psychologist, not  a psychiatrist? Do psychologists in California have prescriptive powers? Was it even legal for him to give medications to Brian? I've never found an answer.

It was indeed illegal, and that's what got him away from Brian eventually.

I know I'm probably going to get chewed out for this, but I think Brian is at his worst right now, at least mentally/neurologically. He may have been at his worst physically and spiritually in 1982, but I would take a 1982 Brian over a 2012 Brian any day, at least from a musical and overall  lucid point of view.

I hear what you are saying Jay but watch those 1991 book era interviews. Brian isn't nearly as robotic or out of it now. I'm not saying he hasn't got damage or that a certain amount of his personality is gone, but there's some sort of normalicy even if he isn't' totally responding to his surroundings when in public i.e. the Kennedy Center awards.

so you'd rather have him be super depressed, on drugs and near death than the at peace, creative, and more musical person he is today  ;D.  and you started out your statement saying mentally/neurologically, then ended with musically. hum.  I would also say that neurologically, he was worse at the end of the Landy years.  by far.

What this really translates to is that growing old can suck. And yes, it can. If given a choice, most people would probably choose being 40 rather than being 70. But you make do with what you can.

Could not be bothered chewing you out..
Here is one I prepared earlier....

CHEWED OUT!! NO IDEA..

"but I would take a 1982 Brian over a 2012 Brian any day, at least from a musical and overall  lucid point of view". Listen to the "cocaine sessions". Would you rather have him doing songs like Oh Lord on a solo album, or disney stuff aimed for kids? I think the Brian of the late 1970's and early 1980's was much more creative and adventurous than he is today. What I meant by "lucid" is that the Brian of the late 1970's and early 1980's is that he was much less "robotic", for lack of a better term. Check out the PM Magazine interview from 1978. Even at an obvious low point, he would give much more than a simple yes or no answer, if pushed hard enough.

Erm ... most of the Cocaine sessions, regardless of legendary status, are really terrible. "I Feel Fine" ... really? There aren't any real songs there ... just the sound of a lengthy drug binge and some incoherent piano noodling.

So yes, I guess I would rather have the Disney album than the sound of a man destroying himself and making crap music in the process.

ah yes, the best way to make an argument is to cherry pick the obviously good song from a sea of crap and the obviously sub-par album from a bunch of solid ones.  but since we're on that point.  Do i want the unfinished cocaine wailing song, or a finished album?  I think i'd rather have an album.  we're talking how musical he is, so you'd rather have the era where he didn't release anything opposed to the one where's he's released a number of albums.  And yeah, Oh Lord may seem more adventurous, but cocaine can do that.  I don't think anything on MIU or LA are adventurous either..(or as good as stuff he's written lately).  I don't disagree that his brain wasn't as damaged then, but i think he's in a better state of mind now.  

i wonder if he's even still aware of "oh lord". 

Ok, let's try out Stevie as an example too. This is a song that Brian wrote and sang, and Dennis produced, and was recorded somewhere between 1981 and 1982. To me this song has kind of a "wall of sound" sounding production, something that was lacking in most of the music The Beach Boys had done in the previous decade(with the obvious exception of Holland). The lyrics are pretty good too. Much better than something like Rainbow Eyes, or A Friend Like You.

I agree Brian could probably communicate better or get more passion in his voice or songs in 1982, but he was killing himself. I still think the second Landy era has a much less inspired or together Brian than now. I dislike the Disney thing too, but I would rather have Brian they way he is than dead creativety be damned. Besides TLOS was more than worthy of his legacy if not comparable to his 1961-73 creative prime.

It is better than the lesser post Holland stuff but so is Midnight's Another Day.

I didn't care for the Gershwin and Disney albums at all, but TLOS IMHO is a near masterpiece. Most inspired songwriting from Brian in decades, singing well, and backed by a terrific band. I think it's okay for him to cool down after that with other projects...but wouldn't hazard a guess as to whether he's got a few more gems up his sleeve or not. He's given us more than enough in his long life. If the Boys go out on top with a strong, artistic album, that would be the icing on the cake.

To bring other years in here, I think 1977/78 included many low ebbs, too many.
The first Landy era was a no-go, he was back into drugs, the divorce, the stress of touring + recording.

I do agree that That Lucky Old Sun is a near masterpiece. I've said it before and I'll say it again. Brian Wilson should be remembered for three albums, Pet Sounds, Smile, and That Lucky Old Sun.

The Gershwin album is a monster. Really. Probably the most inspired BW production (as opposed to songwriting) for decades. And the vocals are better than anything he's done since before blowing out his voice. Disney is a relatively slight album, but very pleasant and with some inspired ideas. Works better with the Amazon bonus tracks in place of some of the more recent Disney tunes.

The thing is, we see so little of Brian, really. I mean, we're mainly talking about interviews (and some music, but that's really a matter of taste). And there's no question that Brian's interviews over the last 15 years or so have generally declined in quality. But he also gives a lot more of them. It's hard for me to see those two things as unconnected. He's just less interested in that part of the biz, and I don't think it really says much about the man's inner being or creative soul.

Let's put it this way -- there are also interviews where, for whatever reasons, he decides to be engaged. And it's still the same guy there.

http://www.cbc.ca/strombo/videos.html?id=1972020454

Did Brian really say that "lollipop of mediocrity" line?  ;D

I think it must be sort of awkward for Brian that very obviously drugged-out recordings of him doing music exist that fans could easily acquire if they were so inclined, haha. Things like the infamous cocaine/hamburger sessions, "Teardrops On My Bed", or the various clips on Endless Bummer. How does Brian feel about this or does he more than likely not care?

It blows your mind that Brian's outlived his entire immediate family !

You forgot about Beautiful dreamer.

I genuinelly view those three as a trilogy.

Just watched that interview, thanks for sharing the link. It's one of the best interviews I've seen/ heard of Brian in recent years. Definitely a lot of the same guy still in there from days of yore. I guess how well  he 'performs' in interviews depends on his mood, the interviewer, the kind of questions his energy levels etc, pretty much like the rest of us then  :)  Interesting to hear his thoughts about the ultimate mystery ... 

This 2010 interview with Peter Ames Carlin is the most fun latter-day Brian interview I've ever read:

http://www.peteramescarlin.com/node/194

Un-believable interview. He seems so... Normal? Crazy? Down to earth? Eccentric? I can't decide. The parts about Dennis sorta break my heart, though. I mean, sure he was passionate. I mean, unstable. But he was right. Right? I feel like Dennis is the only one who took the "long view," and it sounds like even Brian "didn't get it." Poor Dennis.

Haha, the bit in that interview where Carlin says 'Brian, you seem to survive everything' and he replies 'No, that's not true. Some of these radio advertisements drive me crazy.'


He's like us!  :lol

I feel the same way.

Weird day for Brian with Peter! He spoke glowingly about him to me.  Maybe he was talking about the later years as far as the meetings went. Wish I knew the issue Dennis was upset about.

Great interview indeed.  ;D OK, maybe I was wrong with my previous argument in this thread.

Perhaps he was alluding to the fact that by 1980-83, Dennis had basically "surrendered" to the others in regard to the creative fight over material(much in the same way that Carl eventually did)? By 1981-82 Brian and Dennis were both "kindred spirits" in that they were both in a dark place. Maybe they found happiness in a destructive, generally f***ed up way? Did that make any sense at all?

Yes, Dennis obviously wasn't always an easy guy to get along with.
Sometimes the nicest guy, sometimes the biggest ...
Brian seems to have very mixed feelings about him.
I mean, this isn't the first recent interview where he expressed negative sentiments against Dennis.

Maybe it has something to do with the company Brian keeps? You know, "Drugs are bad, they ruined SMiLE, they ruined my mental health. Drugs are bad, Dennis took drugs, Dennis gave me drugs, ergo Dennis = bad."

Also, Dennis was the rowdy middle child, while Brian is (was) the authoritative, responsible oldest child. I have two older brothers, and I see a similar pattern of family dynamics (Woo! That means I'm Carl!).

Any links to more Brian interviews where he opens up about Dennis, good or bad?

I think interviewers (well, at least ones who don't know Brian well, unlike Carlin or Leaf) sort of think it's best not to go there - Brian clearly misses his brothers a lot. Anyone would, and this is Brian Wilson we're talking about here - I think he genuinely has a soft skin when it comes to things like that. It's possibly easier to deflect it with comments like that.

There's a great one recently where Brian (possibly in full put-on mode) describes his own unique brand of musical synthesesia. That's hilarious.

It's been mentioned already, but the interviews Leaf conducted with him for Beautiful Dreamer are very good, considering the subjects broached.

Bad Brian interviews (and god knows there's a lot of them) can genuinely be ascribed to him being bored or uncomfortable, I think. As Wirestone said, even disregarding his lifestyle he's still 70 years old. He's not 'gone' upstairs, he's just 70.

I think the sibling/birth order thing might have a lot to do with it. Our perception of our siblings as adults is impacted by our perception of them as children. I hear myself complaining about my older sister, and I think, "Wow. No one else sees her this way." It's because of our relationship when we were kids--she was bossy and somewhat manipulative, as older siblings tend to be. I was bratty, and in some ways she still sees me that way. And we're in our 30s. And the fact that Brian and Dennis were SO different as kids-- the shy and well-behaved Brian probably used to roll his eyes at Dennis, not understanding why this kid kept getting into trouble, saying rude things, etc. As Dennis said, if it wasn't for the music, they really wouldn't have spent any time together.

Brian's lowest ebb was when he was found lying in a gutter near a park in San Diego and Marilyn sent somebody to go search for him. What year was that.

Sept '88. Greenford, London. STOMP Convention. When he saw the T-Shirt I was wearing.
I think I was the only one wearing one that day.. which is surprising.

I'm not sure who you're trying to insult with that one, but I'm going to cover it with 'f*ck you and the horse you rode in on'.

Also, learn to quote.  :smokin

At first I thought I read "I'm going to the park and take a NAP" which would be so Brian. :)

"I took a walk and sat down in a park..."

I was actually paying you a compliment, but you blew it. You must have some sort of personality disorder to read it any other way. Also, learn to curb your tongue. And what kind of name is hypehat anyway? After your 'interpretation" of my post it should be asshat.

Thanks for posting this, Austin.  It's a great interview w/ Peter.

I love that Peter gives a shout out for the clarinet section in the middle of "She Says That She Needs Me".  That's an extraordinary piece of music.

Sorry, I misinterpreted it. I was very tired/a little inebriated and I thought you were being extremely sarcastic....  

Olive branch?

I argee with this totally, I mean it's very easy for us fans to say Dennis is great etc, And he was great as well as having in the words of Brian "A big heart".
Everyone who met him loved him for that reason even Mike, BUT without being disrespectful to Dennis & his music, sometimes it must of been very tough & more importantly heartbreaking for his friends & family to see the demons in Dennis's life take over and eventally kill him esp I think Carl & Brian.
I'm sure we all know people in our lives or even ourselves who was/our battling the demons that threaten to take over our lives, And no matter what we do to help nothing could/can be right for them.
It's happened to me personally I was that person who was very close to losing everything friends, family, work, home, Last year.
Thankfully I pulled back and took a good look at myself I didn't like what I had become. I started to change my life for the better & thank God still had the love & support of my friends & family.
I believe Dennis did want to sort himself out towards the end but it just proved too hard.
All his family and friends did EVERYTHING possible to help him.
Towards the end his family and The Beach Boys HAD to give Dennis some tough love e.g. throw him out of the band several times etc.
It must of been awful & heartbreaking during the last few years of Dennis's life for himself & his family & friends.
I hope that Dennis has found some peace and will be in the new tour in spirt as well as Carl.
RIP Dennis xx

No doubt Dennis was a great guy, albeit a great guy with some serious demons. And there are probably some days when it seriously bums out Brian to think of what happened to him. Who would have ever dreamed that Brian would outlive BOTH of his brothers?

Yes, olive branch accepted. I could have been clearer but was also impaired. The main point still stands. Brian has found a way to ease the pain when somebody brings up Dennis in an interview.

I didn't post that! Jack Daniels did.

Oh you guys.............. ;)

I think we're now....

(http://www.slothboogie.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/1227545800_kool_and_the_gang.jpeg)

 ;D

When I see people here just hate on Rocky and the other guy who beat up Dennis. I wanted to say why is that so bad at least they didn't hit a *****.

Didn't hit a what? A sequence of stars? From your above comment it seems you are glad that Dennis was beaten up by Rocky and 'the other guy', which makes you a tool.

I didn't say anything. It's your imagination running wild.

What the hell is that supposed to even mean? Didn't hit a what? What was the ****** meant to represent? If you're going to make a statement, then be prepared to back it up and/or explain it. Writing vague non-commital confusing things is just annoying and liable to **** everyone off.

Yes?

Pardon?

Neither of these sentences make sense grammatically. This may add to the general ****ing confusion

Maybe the ***** is a reference to the story in the Wouldnt It Be Nice 'autobiography' in which Dennis is recounted as having hit a woman. If that is indeed the case, can i just say what a scumbag Carl was and how much i hate Al for being a racist...

Every word in WIBN is true  :lol

What was the shirt and what did he do.
The park thing was 1978 I think.