Van Dyke Barks

[bgas]

This Paul dude lost all credibility with me when he said Lindsey Buckingham wasn't a genius.

Check out VDP doing a cool version of H&V recently. Talk about arranging a track towards your strengths!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFxdAkfjeVg&list=RDAFxdAkfjeVg

The name is Paul J B not Paul dude. I was going to explain that I'm a Buckingham fan but then I realized you are trolling based on that fact that all of your 5 posts are on this thread and more so the content of them.

Be advised.....if the mods don't run you off some of the hardcore dudes here will.

Don't let him get to you Paul Just Barely

[Paul J B]

This Paul dude lost all credibility with me when he said Lindsey Buckingham wasn't a genius.

Check out VDP doing a cool version of H&V recently. Talk about arranging a track towards your strengths!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFxdAkfjeVg&list=RDAFxdAkfjeVg

The name is Paul J B not Paul dude. I was going to explain that I'm a Buckingham fan but then I realized you are trolling based on that fact that all of your 5 posts are on this thread and more so the content of them.

Be advised.....if the mods don't run you off some of the hardcore dudes here will.

Don't let him get to you Paul Just Barely

No no no. Not Just Barely. Only the initials J & B. Real initials that coincide with Sloop John B. Pretty nifty huh. Don't worry no one here gets to me. Well maybe AGD....

[Bicyclerider]

Oh, and was there a session that was cancelled because Brian wandered the studio for two hours not liking "the vibrations"? If so, I can't recall reading about one. The last, cancelled "Dada" date maybe? Does anyone have a source for this scene?

Yes, this happened. It was in the Goodbye Surfing, Hello God article by Jules Siegel that appeared in Crawdaddy magazine...the one with the Mama Cass centerfold.

Van Dyke has cited an Elements/Fire session that Brian cancelled after deciding the vibes weren't right, despite the string players already being there, which Van Dyke thought was unprofessional.  Unclear when that was but presumably Late November shortly before the Cabinessence lyrics spat after which Van left, only to return in January to help Brian finish Heroes . . . Which he didn't manage to do until after Van left a second time!

[Bicyclerider]

This Paul dude lost all credibility with me when he said Lindsey Buckingham wasn't a genius.

Check out VDP doing a cool version of H&V recently. Talk about arranging a track towards your strengths!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFxdAkfjeVg&list=RDAFxdAkfjeVg

This sounds like what Van would have done if he covered Heroes on Song Cycle.

[chaki]

This Paul dude lost all credibility with me when he said Lindsey Buckingham wasn't a genius.

Check out VDP doing a cool version of H&V recently. Talk about arranging a track towards your strengths!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFxdAkfjeVg&list=RDAFxdAkfjeVg

The name is Paul J B not Paul dude. I was going to explain that I'm a Buckingham fan but then I realized you are trolling based on that fact that all of your 5 posts are on this thread and more so the content of them.

Be advised.....if the mods don't run you off some of the hardcore dudes here will.

holy sh*t, man, calm down it's just goofy fun. jeeze.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Alright guys....it's time to simmer down.

or to meditate. Take your pick!

[Wirestone]

Here's VDP outlining it all, in a much more pleasant way. He even says nice things about TLOS.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6HCRmNJIZ50

[Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard]

It makes me sad. I like Van Dyke very much, and I wish he felt better about his association with BW.

Same here. I hope they don't live out their time with this estrangement unresolved (and maybe explained to the rest of us watching from the sidelines). That hyphen threw me…

Thirded. SMiLE is my favorite work of art from anyone in any medium. It's a shame the men who made it aren't on good terms.

Slightly off-topic, and I haven't seen it yet either, but it's a shame that the SMiLE scenes in the movie supposedly only focus on the "craziness" too if that really is the case. It deserves better, and while it's not the focus of it, the movie could have done a lot to introduce people to that material and show how brilliant it is. That Brian didn't just make Pet Sounds and disappear. I can understand vdp's beef if that's what's bugging him, but I don't think it is, and in any case he's going about it in the worst way possible. Just be honest, Van, if you're reading. Be sincere and eloquent about it. But the snarky tweets are so beneath him it's pathetic.

He did this to himself; all by himself.

Yes, I agree

[Cam Mott]

(paraphrasing)

Well, that's putting it mildly.

I think I pretty much nailed it.

[Mr. Verlander]

I'm no Mike Love fan; however, as much as I get tired of him in every interview bringing up Brian's drug use, I get just as tired of Parks always making sure to make a snide remark or two towards Mike Love. It gets old both ways.

Parks is just an old, cranky guy at this point. You know, these people are human, after all. It's just like if your grandparents or parents had a twitter account. Just because he's a 'celebrity' doesn't mean he can't get pissed off, or have a 'bad spell', or whatever.  If you got right down to it, I'm sure that the guy loves Brian Wilson, it's just that there are things that have probably bothered him for almost 40 years, and at some point you can't hold it in. It's just like the stupid Mike Love bullshit that everyone endlessly drones on about; Mike and Brian love each other, and a lot of their problems can probably be chalked up to their 'camps' and miscommunication.

[DonnyL]

I'm not interested in commenting on the Twitter stuff, but ...

It's pretty obvious to me that Van Dyke Parks had a strong musical influence on the Smile recordings. And that influence I think is notably missing from Smiley Smile (minus the older sessions). Just something to think about ... let's give credit where credit is due. I don't think BW would deny it either. The "Americana" musical streak is something I don't hear in any other BB work, yet is present on most VDP material. I'm sure BW would confirm.

Anyway, just to balance what seems to be a lot of discrediting going on in this thread.

[Don Malcolm]

Right on, Donny. And I don't say that just because we happen to share a first name!

VDP has always been a sarcastic guy. He is not a submissive person, but he did sublimate a good deal (and over many years) in his relationship with Brian. I would suspect all of what's happened here is a cumulative effect for reasons outlined earlier in this roller-coaster thread.

I personally think it's a shame that VDP has been so pointed about Melinda. He really should see L&M to understand how the story is about Brian's emotional issues, not about the blow-by-blow of SMiLE. Melinda's role in removing Landy may be a bit overstated--seems to me that the MIA-in-L&M Gary Usher also had something to do with it--but I can understand that trying to bring all of the story threads of those who were involved in the effort to oust Gene the Pill Dispensing Machine would likely make the narrative too convoluted. Melinda's role is clearly the key one, as we all know, for she's the one who stayed with Brian and has stabilized his life. Brian does not seem to be very good about standing up for himself or for others, and it could be that continuing evidence of this, coupled with Melinda's desire to protect Brian, has rubbed VDP the wrong way.

As I said, I don't condone VDP's tone, but I can see how his feelings on all of this have come to seem like at least second-degree burns.

[?]

I'm not interested in commenting on the Twitter stuff, but ...

It's pretty obvious to me that Van Dyke Parks had a strong musical influence on the Smile recordings. And that influence I think is notably missing from Smiley Smile (minus the older sessions). Just something to think about ... let's give credit where credit is due. I don't think BW would deny it either. The "Americana" musical streak is something I don't hear in any other BB work, yet is present on most VDP material. I'm sure BW would confirm.

Anyway, just to balance what seems to be a lot of discrediting going on in this thread.

Agreed.  It's frustrating to read so many posts minimizing his contributions.  If you don't hear it, you're not listening.

[orange22]

Mr. Parks may not be stating his claims in his usually eloquent way, but that is not what I want to address.

With respect to his contention regarding Love & Mercy, does he not have a point? To address the cello part on Good Vibrations, my understanding is that Carl suggested the use of a cello, and by his word Mr. Parks came up with the idea that they play 8th note triplets. The cello triplets are certainly not the sole focal point of Good Vibrations, but they are a very interesting part of the outro- so much so that they form an entire scene in the Love & Mercy movie, but with Brian seeming to come up with the part. If we are to take Mr. Parks at his word regarding this topic, and so far no one has shown otherwise, then I would say he has a legitimate issue. If so, who would his issue be with? Certainly the writers and producers would be relying on the words and thoughts of others, and in this case you would have to believe that Brian ok'd the scene as being correct...

[Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard]

I'm not interested in commenting on the Twitter stuff, but ...

It's pretty obvious to me that Van Dyke Parks had a strong musical influence on the Smile recordings. And that influence I think is notably missing from Smiley Smile (minus the older sessions). Just something to think about ... let's give credit where credit is due. I don't think BW would deny it either. The "Americana" musical streak is something I don't hear in any other BB work, yet is present on most VDP material. I'm sure BW would confirm.

Anyway, just to balance what seems to be a lot of discrediting going on in this thread.

I don't think anyone's denying that. A few of us were saying the same thing earlier in the thread. It's his contemporary behavior, not his musical prowess that's in question

[startBBtoday]

Mr. Parks may not be stating his claims in his usually eloquent way, but that is not what I want to address.

With respect to his contention regarding Love & Mercy, does he not have a point? To address the cello part on Good Vibrations, my understanding is that Carl suggested the use of a cello, and by his word Mr. Parks came up with the idea that they play 8th note triplets. The cello triplets are certainly not the sole focal point of Good Vibrations, but they are a very interesting part of the outro- so much so that they form an entire scene in the Love & Mercy movie, but with Brian seeming to come up with the part. If we are to take Mr. Parks at his word regarding this topic, and so far no one has shown otherwise, then I would say he has a legitimate issue. If so, who would his issue be with? Certainly the writers and producers would be relying on the words and thoughts of others, and in this case you would have to believe that Brian ok'd the scene as being correct...

I don't think the scene suggested the cello was Brian's idea. It just showed his obsessive streak with getting a segment perfectly despite the lengths it took to do so.

Any scene depicting Van Dyke or Carl coming up with the idea would have seemed extraneous, forced and unneeded. This was not "Orange Crate Art - The Van Dyke Parks Biopic." The movie already was long enough. Even if a scene depicting Van Dyke being credited ever existed, it likely would have been edited out.

[Wirestone]

I'm not interested in commenting on the Twitter stuff, but ...

It's pretty obvious to me that Van Dyke Parks had a strong musical influence on the Smile recordings. And that influence I think is notably missing from Smiley Smile (minus the older sessions). Just something to think about ... let's give credit where credit is due. I don't think BW would deny it either. The "Americana" musical streak is something I don't hear in any other BB work, yet is present on most VDP material. I'm sure BW would confirm.

Anyway, just to balance what seems to be a lot of discrediting going on in this thread.

Agreed.  It's frustrating to read so many posts minimizing his contributions.  If you don't hear it, you're not listening.

So, what did he do?

Did he write any music?

Did he craft any arrangements?

Van Dyke said he didn't. Or, at least before the last couple of months he said he didn't.

Do you guys knows better than the guy who actually co-wrote the songs with Brian?

[?]

Sonically and thematically, Smile is radically different than anything Brian did before or after.  Why do you think that is?  Do you think it was a coincidence that the project collapsed when VDP left?  Do you honestly believe, had VDP never been involved, that this album would have been the same with the exception of the lyrics?  It's pretty self explanatory to me.

[Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard]

I'm not interested in commenting on the Twitter stuff, but ...

It's pretty obvious to me that Van Dyke Parks had a strong musical influence on the Smile recordings. And that influence I think is notably missing from Smiley Smile (minus the older sessions). Just something to think about ... let's give credit where credit is due. I don't think BW would deny it either. The "Americana" musical streak is something I don't hear in any other BB work, yet is present on most VDP material. I'm sure BW would confirm.

Anyway, just to balance what seems to be a lot of discrediting going on in this thread.

Agreed.  It's frustrating to read so many posts minimizing his contributions.  If you don't hear it, you're not listening.

So, what did he do?

Did he write any music?

Did he craft any arrangements?

Van Dyke said he didn't. Or, at least before the last couple of months he said he didn't.

Do you guys knows better than the guy who actually co-wrote the songs with Brian?

Supposedly the whole Americana concept was his idea. I absolutely believe that. Again, there was evidence presented earlier in the thread and its just common sense. VDP has always explored Americana in his work and Brian ditched it in Smiley as soon as he left. So there's that at the very least; if you like the theme of at least 1/2 of the songs, you owe Van praise for that. I think it was a fascinating choice; really shows how far they had come from just singing corny happy beach songs. Now they're directly challenging both the British Invasion and their own country's past sins at the same time. Far more interesting than any subject they tackled before or since.

[Chocolate Shake Man]

Brian also hasn't made an album like Pet Sounds since Pet Sounds or an album like All Summer Long since All Summer Long.

[DonnyL]

I'm not interested in commenting on the Twitter stuff, but ...

It's pretty obvious to me that Van Dyke Parks had a strong musical influence on the Smile recordings. And that influence I think is notably missing from Smiley Smile (minus the older sessions). Just something to think about ... let's give credit where credit is due. I don't think BW would deny it either. The "Americana" musical streak is something I don't hear in any other BB work, yet is present on most VDP material. I'm sure BW would confirm.

Anyway, just to balance what seems to be a lot of discrediting going on in this thread.

Agreed.  It's frustrating to read so many posts minimizing his contributions.  If you don't hear it, you're not listening.

So, what did he do?

Did he write any music?

Did he craft any arrangements?

Van Dyke said he didn't. Or, at least before the last couple of months he said he didn't.

Do you guys knows better than the guy who actually co-wrote the songs with Brian?

I wrote "musical influence" for a reason. That is what he did. He influenced Brian, and he collaborated with him. "Come to the Sunshine" (pre-Smile) and Song Cycle are both in a similar vein to Smile in my opinion. In fact, I think Song Cycle is the closest thing to a completed Smile-type album released in the '60s. That is not to say Smiley Smile is not great (it's one of my favorite records of all-time), but it's something different entirely. I'm not saying that BW wasn't 100% in charge of Smile, and that is wasn't his record ... or comparing the talents of the two. What I am saying though, is that Smile was a collaboration. I find it strange that we are discussing this on a board that spent much of it's life obsessing about minute details of this record ... it should be taken for granted that Van Dyke Parks was a co-creator of Smile. Personally, I think more than Tony Asher was a co-creator of Pet Sounds. Perhaps that's the distinction. I saw a number of posts earlier that seemed to suggest Van Dyke handed over some lyric sheets to Brian, then Brian moved on to the next guy or something (the term one poster used was "glorified scribe"). Van looms larger than any of Brian's other co-writers (aside from Mike Love) in the Beach Boys saga.

[orange22]

Mr. Parks may not be stating his claims in his usually eloquent way, but that is not what I want to address.

With respect to his contention regarding Love & Mercy, does he not have a point? To address the cello part on Good Vibrations, my understanding is that Carl suggested the use of a cello, and by his word Mr. Parks came up with the idea that they play 8th note triplets. The cello triplets are certainly not the sole focal point of Good Vibrations, but they are a very interesting part of the outro- so much so that they form an entire scene in the Love & Mercy movie, but with Brian seeming to come up with the part. If we are to take Mr. Parks at his word regarding this topic, and so far no one has shown otherwise, then I would say he has a legitimate issue. If so, who would his issue be with? Certainly the writers and producers would be relying on the words and thoughts of others, and in this case you would have to believe that Brian ok'd the scene as being correct...

I don't think the scene suggested the cello was Brian's idea. It just showed his obsessive streak with getting a segment perfectly despite the lengths it took to do so.

Any scene depicting Van Dyke or Carl coming up with the idea would have seemed extraneous, forced and unneeded. This was not "Orange Crate Art - The Van Dyke Parks Biopic." The movie already was long enough. Even if a scene depicting Van Dyke being credited ever existed, it likely would have been edited out.

Of course it would have been silly to require the powers that be (Brian, et al) to give VDP credit for the cello triplets in Love & Mercy. It's equally silly to suggest that, if the scene is factually incorrect, that the inaccuracies should be brushed over.

Reference this VDP interview posted earlier in the thread, where he specifically describes the recording session of the Good Vibrations cello: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRVy6HjxnYE&feature=youtu.be&t=20m58s

[Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard]

Brian also hasn't made an album like Pet Sounds since Pet Sounds or an album like All Summer Long since All Summer Long.

I'd argue the pre-today albums are very similar to each other and today and pet sounds are very similar. But nothing else in their canon sounds quite like GV or SMiLE. To be fair tho, I'd say the same for Love You, which is VDP-less

[DonnyL]

Brian also hasn't made an album like Pet Sounds since Pet Sounds or an album like All Summer Long since All Summer Long.

Are you kidding?

[Chocolate Shake Man]

Brian also hasn't made an album like Pet Sounds since Pet Sounds or an album like All Summer Long since All Summer Long.

Are you kidding?

No. What album has he done like Pet Sounds or All Summer Long?