The Definitive Vocal Credits Thread...

[John]

Yeah, we agreed we're not touching the unreleased stuff, if I remember correctly...it's been nearly a year on this already!

Adam - I trust your ears more than Al's memory, after he said he'd never played "Honkin'" live...

[Andrew G. Doe]

I dunno, he made it for Lord's Prayer and Auld Lang Syne...

I think for Lord's Prayer we decided it was prior to Al being in the group full time (or he had just joined).  With "Auld" we're ID'ing Denny basically on my say-so.  Al Jardine has claimed he is on that track.  I don't know which is less reliable, my ears or Al's memory...

"TLP" was recorded 10/20/63 - Alan had been back in the band for several weeks by then. The "LSN" sessions (10/18 & 10/20) were the first ones that David didn't take part in since April the previous year..

[adamghost]

True... what I meant was at that point, the song had probably already been rehearsed with Dennis.  There may not have been enough time to get Al up to speed on the part, particularly if Dennis already had it.  But you're right, technically Al was back in the band (barely).

[TimeToGetAlone]

Yeah, we agreed we're not touching the unreleased stuff, if I remember correctly...it's been nearly a year on this already!

Adam - I trust your ears more than Al's memory, after he said he'd never played "Honkin'" live...

Fair enough.  You're Still A Mystery hasn't been officially either though has it, nor has a good number of the outtakes that have been mentioned?

[John]

Didn't we argue that Denny was actually better for the harmonies in the accapellas than Al, though Al is a better singer, at one point?

[tpesky]

I don't know if I would go that far. I think Denny's voice did the job, but I think Al's voice was a key component to the harmony sound and gave Brian more options, Al had a better range.

[mikeyj]

Didn't we argue that Denny was actually better for the harmonies in the accapellas than Al, though Al is a better singer, at one point?

I prefer Denny's voice (before it got ruined), purely just because he's more expressive than Al. Obviously Al has a better range and is probably technically better but I just dig Denny's voice.

To be honest, Al is the one guy who I have trouble picking out in the harmonies. I don't know why but I really struggle to hear him on a lot of stuff, unless its blatantly obvious.

[Chris Brown]

Didn't we argue that Denny was actually better for the harmonies in the accapellas than Al, though Al is a better singer, at one point?

I prefer Denny's voice (before it got ruined), purely just because he's more expressive than Al. Obviously Al has a better range and is probably technically better but I just dig Denny's voice.

To be honest, Al is the one guy who I have trouble picking out in the harmonies. I don't know why but I really struggle to hear him on a lot of stuff, unless its blatantly obvious.

I prefer Denny's voice too...it has more texture to it.  More emotional I suppose...Al is a great singer (and has the best remaining BB voice by far), but his singing never makes me feel anything, whereas when Denny sings, I feel what he's singing about.

Al is tough to pick out because he can sound like everyone.  His voice just isn't that distinctive...the Wilson brothers all had their own distinct (albiet similar) sounds, and Mike had his patented bass sound.  Al was just a solid voice to add to the harmony, perfect for those sometimes difficult middle parts.

[mikeyj]

but his singing never makes me feel anything, whereas when Denny sings, I feel what he's singing about.

Couldn't agree more Chris. It's almost like some singers have this ability to make it feel like they are directly involving you in what they are singing about.

[John]

Oh yeah, I agree. There was a point raised by Adamghost, I think, on this thread during the discussion of the accapellas. I can't remember the technical details but I think it boiled down to Denny's grainier texture being more attractive to the ear in the stack than Al's brighter texture. It's well worth finding anyway, it's somewhere at the half-way point.

[shelter]

Didn't we argue that Denny was actually better for the harmonies in the accapellas than Al, though Al is a better singer, at one point?

I can't remember where I heard or read it, but a vocal expert once said that vocal harmonies always sound better if they're performed by people who grew up in the same area. It had something to do with the way people pronounce words, even if you normally can't tell the difference. As Dennis grew up in the same house as Brian and Carl while Al was originally from another state, that would make sense...

[Chris Brown]

Didn't we argue that Denny was actually better for the harmonies in the accapellas than Al, though Al is a better singer, at one point?

I can't remember where I heard or read it, but a vocal expert once said that vocal harmonies always sound better if they're performed by people who grew up in the same area. It had something to do with the way people pronounce words, even if you normally can't tell the difference. As Dennis grew up in the same house as Brian and Carl while Al was originally from another state, that would make sense...

Call me crazy but I think that's from the Pet Sounds book by Charles Granata (sorry if I spelled that wrong).  And intonation is definitely important in a capella harmony, but I didn't think Al's intonation was much different from the other guys.  Like others have said, Dennis just added some additional texture, while Al had a good (but relatively indistinct) blending voice.

[John]

Here's the link to the post, which is surrounded by discussion of the accapellas:

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,4120.msg71532.html#msg71532

[John]

So, are we done?

[adamghost]

Let's start over!

[Ana-Lu]

While certain singers may be more expressive when singing solo, it doesn't mean they are good group singers.   Sure, Dennis is a great, soulful, expressive solo singer, but as a group singer, he doesn't hold a candle to Al. 

That said, I'd rather hear Dennis in the group than Bruce, who doesn't blend at all.

[Jonas]

Ok, I moved all the lists to the new thread. However, I am unable to put the very first post here because the board does not allow me. If John can repost it (I believe its Surfin Safari), I will be able to move it to the new "List" thread...

[John]

There you go. And thanks a lot by the way, it looks great!

[MBE]

Read through it all again who is this Omnes on Somewhere Near Japan.

[SloopJohnB]

"Omnes" is latin for "all", or "everybody" 

[MBE]

Ah thanks, I never knew that before.

[John]

Quick question:

What was your biggest surprise when we'd hashed it all out?

Mine was that it was Denny on "We're Together Again". I'd just assumed it was Carl, but the minute it came on, I went, "Oh, yeah, it is him!"

[SloopJohnB]

Mine is that it was Brian saying "I love you" in "Please Let Me Wonder"... But now it's obvious. Oh, and the Brian+Al vocals on "Rock 'N' Roll To The Rescue"!

[MBE]

Yeah I guess Please Let Me Wonder,  maybe Summertime Blues. We're Together I Always thought was Dennis because of the way he prononces "again".

[signum]

Let's start over!

Yes. No harm in going through a few more times.

On "Auld Lang Syne" I get Dennis AND Al on there. This is how:

4 parts, from top to bottom: Brian, Al, Carl and Dennis together, Mike.
Comparing the two speaker channels, Carl is louder on one, Dennis on the other. Sometimes Dennis sings a little scoop to the note, whereas Carl doesn't, and on the last line Dennis seems to go above the correct note in the middle of "Syne".

Dennis and Carl often sound similar in the harmonies, because of their timbre.  Except that Carl is smoother. Dennis is very expressive and so his voice makes the harmony sound pleasant to the ear. Al is usually the hardest to pick out but always seems to sing exactly in tune and so blend in pitchwise. His voice also blends by not sounding distinctive in the harmonies. But occasionally when his voice sticks out you notice the different accent and timbre of his voice.

On "Lavender" I think it is Brian, Carl, Dennis and Mike.
On "Things we did last summer" surely it is the same four?