MOJO Special Spolier

[Andrew G. Doe]

Okay, I haven't even heard the new "Cabin Essence" (Perhaps I Might soon, along with the new "Wonderful"), but my understanding was that only Carl's lead recorded in '68 was missing; the chorus vocals and Mike's coda vocal exist on multi-tracks. I have no idea whether Dennis' "Truck Drivin' Man" exists apart from the finished 20/20 mix.

Am I totally misinformed here?

No, but what we don't know is if those multi-tracks still exist. Lot of folk here are assuming they do. We'll see.

[Chocolate Shake Man]

 Poor Man, having to send all these emails.

But really, thanks - it would be greatly appreciated.

[Barnshine]

Well, I am a new member and I haven't posted here a lot, would it be rude of me to mention the I am keen to here those tracks and will probably Post More here in the near future with all this SMiLE discussion going around? I'll be grateful...

[TdHabib]

I think I need the right perspective maybe to tell.

[Winston Wrong]

Ok, just been on a 36 mile round trip to try and locate a copy of Mojo.. sold out everywhere! Either the print run was far too limited or multiple copies have been bought to sell on ebay

Can someone make my day with a Pee eM so I can hear all?

Many thanks in advance  

Where are you? I found a copy in Rough Trade East today, no problem.... They had loads on the counter.

By gum, does Wonderful sound great btw. The interviews are also not as bad as some make out - Although Brian seems kinda sad about it, there's a quote where he says 'I was tired of the pop song structure, I wanted it to be a departure. Overall we couldn't get through a whole song.' Which before people call phooey, is sorta true - What Smile song could you honestly say was 'finished' by May 1967?

 Loads of great photos in there, too.

You're right, the post '67 article is full of 'biography' quotes. A damn shame.

I was looking in Liverpool.. thought WHSmiths woul have some, no sign in HMV either.. Mojo's lost sale was Apocolypse Now Blu Rays gain though! lol

And thanks for the Post Mortem!

[Shady]

Ok, just been on a 36 mile round trip to try and locate a copy of Mojo.. sold out everywhere! Either the print run was far too limited or multiple copies have been bought to sell on ebay

Can someone make my day with a Pee eM so I can hear all?

Many thanks in advance  

Where are you? I found a copy in Rough Trade East today, no problem.... They had loads on the counter.

By gum, does Wonderful sound great btw. The interviews are also not as bad as some make out - Although Brian seems kinda sad about it, there's a quote where he says 'I was tired of the pop song structure, I wanted it to be a departure. Overall we couldn't get through a whole song.' Which before people call phooey, is sorta true - What Smile song could you honestly say was 'finished' by May 1967?

 Loads of great photos in there, too.

You're right, the post '67 article is full of 'biography' quotes. A damn shame.

I was looking in Liverpool.. thought WHSmiths woul have some, no sign in HMV either.. Mojo's lost sale was Apocolypse Now Blu Rays gain though! lol

And thanks for the Post Mortem!

Try again on the 15th, that's the official release date.

It seems some places got it early though

[Tilt Araiza]

When I made my own mono fold-down of Cabin Essence, I used Cool Edit to "pan center left" before then combining the two channels.  I found that it pushed the vocals up a bit in a way that pleased me.

[David Kennedy]

Can someone please share some of their Pancakes and Maple syrup? I didn't  have any breakfast today.  

[bsten]

I live in Sweden so I'm not even sure the mag will be sold here. Perhaps someone can give me a hint?  

Thank you!

/B

[drbeachboy]

I'd like to hear what Peyton Manning has to say about all this too.

[stack-o-tracks]

Come on, people. Maybe you should all just buy the magazine yourselves. 

[Barnshine]

Cabin Essence: After ABing MOJO and 20/20, I bet it's one channel of the stereo for the verses and choruses (as AGD suggests), and a remix from the multitrack for the coda - Mike's voice is just too up there in front of the mix (and crystal clear) to be from the 20/20 stereo, unless someone's did some outstanding EQ and mixing job there. And it's from 1966, so maybe the multi's still exist for this one...

Wonderful: As has been said.

[pixletwin]

On Cabinessence is even sounds like Carl's voice is mixed to be clearer in the foreground. Is it just my imagination?

[bsten]

Come on, people. Maybe you should all just buy the magazine yourselves. 

Does it come with a turntable?? ;P

/B

[Andrew G. Doe]

Cabin Essence: After ABing MOJO and 20/20, I bet it's one channel of the stereo for the verses and choruses (as AGD suggests), and a remix from the multitrack for the coda - Mike's voice is just too up there in front of the mix (and crystal clear) to be from the 20/20 stereo, unless someone's did some outstanding EQ and mixing job there. And it's from 1966, so maybe the multi's still exist for this one...

Again, you're making the assumption the multi-tracks still exist. Maybe they do. We don't know. I'm sure the liners will explain.

[Iron Horse-Apples]

Some more on Cabin Essence

Well, I just synched the Mojo track and the '93 boxset track together on Cubase.

The first verse and chorus are completely in synch, not even the slightest hint of phase. The second verse and chorus go out of synch, but only because the edit has been adjusted.

The fact they are completely in synch would lead me to believe that AGD is right (again unfortunately). If they had gone back to the multitracks, you would expect there to be slight timing differences. Tapes stretch slightly every time they are played. This is almost certainly the version used on the 93 boxset, with a mix made from one side of the stereo pair.

If they had made a mix from the multitracks, you would have timing differences, however slight.

Unless they were working from the same material in 66, 68, 83 and 2011

It would also have been put on Pro Tools (ML did it for DS) so they would have been able to do a comparison and correct any major differences

Do you mean PS? If so then I think all he did in terms of correcting differences was synching the vocals to the original instrumental multi tracks. This is exactly what I am talking about. When Brian dubbed the PS tracks down to mono onto an 8 track, and then rewound that tape 547 times whilst waiting for Al to sing the damn line correctly..... then the tape would be stretched, hence Mark had to make adjustemnts whilst synching it.

I don't know how the master for Cabinessence was made in '68, but I would suspect they mixed down what existed from '66 onto another tape, then added the leads and some sweetening. Carl was a great vocalist, but I'd be suprised it was done in two takes (one for each dub) More than likely there was constant stops and rewinds. Already you would have something that would not synch exactly with the '66 multi's

And I'm saying it synchs exactly - no phase at all.

This is one channel the 20/20 track, hence the single tracked vocal. There was probably good reason for doing this. Maybe they tried a fold down from both channels, and it didn't sound too great. Maybe they tried mixing it from one channel and found it sounded better, and they had more control over the sound. I don't think they were cutting corners, or being lazy, I think it would have been a creative decision.

And I think it sounds great, however they did it

No DS (Darian) for 2004 SMILE

And CE doesn't match, it does phase - there IS  a longer gap at the end of the first chorus before second verse comes in - suggesting either different edit, 66 mix or they simply have made a new mono mix from the multitracks/ProTools stems they had or found since 2003/04

Yes I mentioned that. The edit has been adjusted, it doesn't go out of phase, it goes completley out of synch here. If '68 vocals had been put onto the '66 multi's, then the whole track would be out. I only say this as someone who has spent many years working with tape.

And I could be wrong, I'd be happy if it was a new mix, I'm happy whatever it is.

And thanks again for the chance to hear it Desmondo.

Never worked with tape -   but done stuff on ProTools and Logic

Cos Smile is 97% edits - they could have just matched the vocal track up via a cut in its track to match the extra space in the gap - easy with DAWs - tape would be a much more tricky operation I would imagine

Not sure I follow.........bit late in the day. But yes, I don't use tape anymore, spent years missing it with my first forays into digital, but I've got a pretty sweet system now, and plug-ins to give it that tape saturation we know and love, but anyway, I won't turn this thread into something off the Hoffman board.

I do still double track all my vocals though, and have it down to a fine art

Let me try and explain with the proviso that I am no expert with Pro Tools but have used it and I may be teaching egg sucking

I have the complete backing track or the sections on one track which I can edit/fade together all the parts

If I also have the Carl lead vocal I can synch, EQ, edit, etc that to match the backing track - that is why the new "gap" doesn't make any difference

If then Mike's Over and Over was recorded separately and is on a separate track or even part of the Carl lead track I can put that on and EQ it change levels etc - I don't know this is true though from tracking dates etc

If I also have the backing vocals whether separately or as one mixed track I can also put those on top and repeat editing, EQ ing etc - even if they are mixed with the backing track the new gap wont make any difference

Perhaps a good example is the H&V building of the vocal tracks from SOT

Please correct if this is all impossible - it does of course depend on a certain number of multi tracks being available

I can then mix and master the whole thing to mono

Yes, I know what you mean now.

I suppose my point is, if Mark had got the '68 multitracks, which are rumoured to not exist, then it would make sense to synch them in with the '66 tracks. Now, it is extremely unlikely that that '66 backing track would synch identically with the '68 overdubs. The simple thing to do would be to just, as you say edit the vocal wav between words, then it's easy to make it fit. Now I'm sure it is possible to micro adjust the '66 tracks to make them fit the vocals, but why bother when the former way is much easier?
If they are using the'66 tracks, then I can't see how it would synch identically with the '93 mix.

Which it does.

Try putting a stereo Pet Sounds track next to one of the mono mixes from the 90's. Now I haven't  done this, but I can assure you they will go out of phase.

[Iron Horse-Apples]

Okay, I haven't even heard the new "Cabin Essence" (Perhaps I Might soon, along with the new "Wonderful"), but my understanding was that only Carl's lead recorded in '68 was missing; the chorus vocals and Mike's coda vocal exist on multi-tracks. I have no idea whether Dennis' "Truck Drivin' Man" exists apart from the finished 20/20 mix.

Am I totally misinformed here?

No, but what we don't know is if those multi-tracks still exist. Lot of folk here are assuming they do. We'll see.

The '66 multi's must still exist, as there is a nice stereo mix of the track on the '93 sessions disc. As far as I know the '68 multi's are gone. 

[hypehat]

The '93 mix is from 20/20

[Andrew G. Doe]

Okay, I haven't even heard the new "Cabin Essence" (Perhaps I Might soon, along with the new "Wonderful"), but my understanding was that only Carl's lead recorded in '68 was missing; the chorus vocals and Mike's coda vocal exist on multi-tracks. I have no idea whether Dennis' "Truck Drivin' Man" exists apart from the finished 20/20 mix.

Am I totally misinformed here?

No, but what we don't know is if those multi-tracks still exist. Lot of folk here are assuming they do. We'll see.

The '66 multi's must still exist, as there is a nice stereo mix of the track on the '93 sessions disc. As far as I know the '68 multi's are gone.  

If the 66 multis were used in 1993, then someone did a very poor job, as the left channel is almost empty. Sounds to me like someone making the best of a bad job in 1968. Compare it with the following track for "Surf's Up", which has much more distinct separation.

[sneakyflutes]

I know I'm new to the community but I'd really appreciate it if someone could Point Me in the direction of these wonderful mixes so I could start contributing more to this thread. 

[desmondo]

Okay, I haven't even heard the new "Cabin Essence" (Perhaps I Might soon, along with the new "Wonderful"), but my understanding was that only Carl's lead recorded in '68 was missing; the chorus vocals and Mike's coda vocal exist on multi-tracks. I have no idea whether Dennis' "Truck Drivin' Man" exists apart from the finished 20/20 mix.

Am I totally misinformed here?

No, but what we don't know is if those multi-tracks still exist. Lot of folk here are assuming they do. We'll see.

The '66 multi's must still exist, as there is a nice stereo mix of the track on the '93 sessions disc. As far as I know the '68 multi's are gone.  

If the 66 multis were used in 1993, then someone did a very poor job, as the left channel is almost empty. Sounds to me like someone making the best of a bad job in 1968. Compare it with the following track for "Surf's Up", which has much more distinct separation.

Always thought CE was pretty muddy - Spectorish even

[Tilt Araiza]

Well, this is interesting.  The first verse of CE just sounds like the right channel of the 20/20 version, but the second verse has that touch of reverb on the lead that doesn't match the 1968 mix.   "Truck Drivin'" and "Over and over" do appear to be up in the mix, but I'm not sure how much of that is actual mixing or is compression/cutting/vinyl making voodoo doing crazy things to the sound.  Ever so slightly longer fade, too.  That's been mentioned, hasn't it?

[Wylson]

If People Might be so kind as to tell me what this is all about

[GuyOnTheBeach]

If the CE multitracks are missing, is it possible that what we have here is a mono mix which was made back in '68 for some reason ? Was this track ever considered for a single, or anything else in which a mono mix would have been made for ?

[MaxL]

This thread makes my brain bleed. I may not be around this forum much when the actual box set comes out.