SMiLE Sessions box set!

[Jason]

There's an acetate of Child Is Father Of The Man from late '66 that runs about 1:45 that's been on boots for years. If this is the same version on the box set, I don't know. It doesn't have any lead vocals but it does have fuller vocals on the chorus fade.

[Runaways]

No, it is different - the bits just before that string break, with the horn swells and stuff aren't vintage '66/67, as Purple Chick use it in their mix.

one listen to AlternateBrianWilson Presents Smile solves how i hope they do it.  that's one of my favorite parts of that mix

[37!ws]

5. I'm In Great Shape  (no vocals)
6. Barnyard (missing verse vocals)

Couldn't you just fly in the vocals from the Humble Harv demo?

As proven by Purple Chick, it would sound pretty bad...the piano from the Humble Harv tape would be overpowering.

[Andrew G. Doe]

I'm still really curious about the Child acetate. I know I've seen others talk about it before the box set was announced, AGD has spoken of a Child mix that was to appear on Hawthorne. Was he talking about the same thing? It seems odd to me, if that acetate did include original lyrics, why weren't they used on BWPS? Is it possible that the acetate has "guide vocals" and no actual lyrics?

If I said Hawthorne CA, my bad - I meant Endless Harmony, and no, different thing entirely: 11/66 BW mono mix & edit, lasts 3.03. Superb. No vocals at all.

[Andrew G. Doe]

5. I'm In Great Shape  (no vocals)
6. Barnyard (missing verse vocals)

Couldn't you just fly in the vocals from the Humble Harv demo?

I'd think so, even though the HH tape is mono (unless they found the multitrack).

[Runaways]

I'd wager HH is on there. 

[rab2591]

5. I'm In Great Shape  (no vocals)
6. Barnyard (missing verse vocals)

Couldn't you just fly in the vocals from the Humble Harv demo?

As proven by Purple Chick, it would sound pretty bad...the piano from the Humble Harv tape would be overpowering.

I think that AGD, somewhere above, said that Mark Linett has used vocal-isolating software before (in the 2000 version of WIBN) - and thus he could probably do the same thing with this.

Since the lyrics were written on the RSD GV vinyl (at least for Barnyard), I think it's a good bet that they found the vocals for that song - why would they give us a tease about flying vocals in from a demo?

Just my opinion.

[sidewinder572]

We have to remember too that what's going to be released is an approximation of the finished 1967 SMiLE. That's been stated many times. Also what's being released is The SMiLE Sessions[/i not SMiLE. That being said if it means they have to fly in demo vocals to make up for the missing vocal parts than so be it. As long as it flows and sounds like a coherent album that's all that matters to me. If the track listing and the ending of H&V have shown us anything it's expect the unexpected.

[Tricycle Rider]

5. I'm In Great Shape  (no vocals)
6. Barnyard (missing verse vocals)

Couldn't you just fly in the vocals from the Humble Harv demo?

As proven by Purple Chick, it would sound pretty bad...the piano from the Humble Harv tape would be overpowering.

I think that AGD, somewhere above, said that Mark Linett has used vocal-isolating software before (in the 2000 version of WIBN) - and thus he could probably do the same thing with this.

Since the lyrics were written on the RSD GV vinyl (at least for Barnyard), I think it's a good bet that they found the vocals for that song - why would they give us a tease about flying vocals in from a demo?

Just my opinion.

If they did indeed find vintage lead vocals for that song, I believe "False Barnyard" will be known as "Barnyard" once again. 

[Jeff]

5. I'm In Great Shape  (no vocals)
6. Barnyard (missing verse vocals)

Couldn't you just fly in the vocals from the Humble Harv demo?

As proven by Purple Chick, it would sound pretty bad...the piano from the Humble Harv tape would be overpowering.

I think that AGD, somewhere above, said that Mark Linett has used vocal-isolating software before (in the 2000 version of WIBN) - and thus he could probably do the same thing with this.

Since the lyrics were written on the RSD GV vinyl (at least for Barnyard), I think it's a good bet that they found the vocals for that song - why would they give us a tease about flying vocals in from a demo?

Just my opinion.

If they did indeed find vintage lead vocals for that song, I believe "False Barnyard" will be known as "Barnyard" once again. 

False Barnyard will never be known as Barnyard, because it isn't Barnyard, and never will be.

[Chris Brown]

I'm still really curious about the Child acetate. I know I've seen others talk about it before the box set was announced, AGD has spoken of a Child mix that was to appear on Hawthorne. Was he talking about the same thing? It seems odd to me, if that acetate did include original lyrics, why weren't they used on BWPS? Is it possible that the acetate has "guide vocals" and no actual lyrics?

If I said Hawthorne CA, my bad - I meant Endless Harmony, and no, different thing entirely: 11/66 BW mono mix & edit, lasts 3.03. Superb. No vocals at all.

I wonder why this mix wasn't included in the box set? 

[hypehat]

5. I'm In Great Shape  (no vocals)
6. Barnyard (missing verse vocals)

Couldn't you just fly in the vocals from the Humble Harv demo?

I'd think so, even though the HH tape is mono (unless they found the multitrack).

Hope they did - One would like to think that the motivation for this set, rather than the certain death of the record industry, is the fact they have the resources finally to present the majority of Smile tracks in 'complete' forms such as multitracks, acetates, etc, that were previously lost. All will be revealed, I'm sure.

[Boiled Egg]

Wasn't the mastering for TLOS and BWPS UK albums different to the US albums, hence there was a noticeable difference in quality?

My EC pressing of TLOS was utterly unlistenable until I ripped it to my iPod (seriously). My US version was, and is, just fine.

That's highly weird.  Surely -- because mastering is SO expensive -- the album wouldn't have been mastered twice?  There's no good reason for that.  Presumably, though, the pressings are different.  In which case, could something in the pressing process have compromised the sound?  Plenty a cheap polymer has krunked a disc along the way.  (I'm looking at you, PDO.)

My only explanation (and it's not a good one) is they sent over the download master by mistake.

I don't think records are ever mastered for download differently than CD. I don't think mastering is as painfully expensive as the original poster said when compared to other aspects of a record being finished, thus it's not unlikely that two masters were done or that the UK version was an incorrect master.

They maybe aren't.  But an album mastering session costs (if my experience at Metropolis, London, is anything to go by) north of £6,000 a pop.  And it involves enough work to not be replicated.  One master is enough per format.  Especially in the post-broadband world.  The logistical is the bigger question: why master anything twice?  One digital (ie CD, download), one vinyl (if needed, because it needs a careful balance of low-end etc) -- what else?  An 'incorrect' master implies an error of colossal proportions: the Holland error is one of such dimension.  But more than one master (for only one format) was prepared for that.  So that's a straight baby-swap in the maternity ward.  An error along those lines for TLOS is way, way, more unlikely.  Especially on this scale. 

(Having said that, I've never quite understood the two-fer mix-up between 'Ol' Man River' and 'Ol' Man River,' when the CD version of one would have adequately done for the other, yet, apparently, didn't.)

[hypehat]

Whats this about Ol' Man River?

[Boiled Egg]

Whats this about Ol' Man River?

two versions. one on the earlier twofer, one on the later.

[thevigilanteoflove]

Okay, so here are a few questions coming from someone who is relatively new to all this, if you have the patience. Besides the obvious songs which will have vocals, and Barnyard and I'm in Great Shape, which could potentially have vocals flown in from the demo, which ones do we know will definitely without a doubt have no vocals?

Verse vocals on Do You Like Worms?

Look?

Verse vocals on Child...?

I Wanna Be Around?

Holidays?

Love to Say Dada?

I'm not sure which lyrics were new to BWPS, or which ones were old but never recorded originally. Also, according to Wikipedia, when "Surf's Up" was done for the '71 album, that's the when "Child, Father of the Man" lyrics were recorded and added to the end. Is that the case? And so will they be on the version on TSS?

[JohnMill]

Okay, so here are a few questions coming from someone who is relatively new to all this, if you have the patience. Besides the obvious songs which will have vocals, and Barnyard and I'm in Great Shape, which could potentially have vocals flown in from the demo, which ones do we know will definitely without a doubt have no vocals?

Verse vocals on Do You Like Worms?

Look?

Verse vocals on Child...?

I Wanna Be Around?

Holidays?

Love to Say Dada?

I'm not sure which lyrics were new to BWPS, or which ones were old but never recorded originally. Also, according to Wikipedia, when "Surf's Up" was done for the '71 album, that's the when "Child, Father of the Man" lyrics were recorded and added to the end. Is that the case? And so will they be on the version on TSS?

From what I remember around the time of BWPS there was some talk about headphone bleed and "Child Is Father Of The Man" vocals.  Not sure if anything came of that but that was a hot topic of discussion around here for awhile.  I believe the "Child" vocals on BWPS are modern lyrics by VDP.  Worms had verse vocals written by VDP but were never tracked by The Beach Boys.  The others tracks I believe all had modern vocals written for BWPS.

Edit: Regarding "Surf's Up", I'll bet you a doughnut that the "Child" vocals tracked in 1971 are included on the main portion of the program.  The wordless falsetto will obviously remain intact on the familiar demo version of the song as found on the boxset.  For what it's worth never loved the 71' additions as the wordless falsetto has always been one of my favorite moments in the Beach Boys music rivaling the ending of "You Still Believe In Me".

[thevigilanteoflove]

Okay, so here are a few questions coming from someone who is relatively new to all this, if you have the patience. Besides the obvious songs which will have vocals, and Barnyard and I'm in Great Shape, which could potentially have vocals flown in from the demo, which ones do we know will definitely without a doubt have no vocals?

Verse vocals on Do You Like Worms?

Look?

Verse vocals on Child...?

I Wanna Be Around?

Holidays?

Love to Say Dada?

I'm not sure which lyrics were new to BWPS, or which ones were old but never recorded originally. Also, according to Wikipedia, when "Surf's Up" was done for the '71 album, that's the when "Child, Father of the Man" lyrics were recorded and added to the end. Is that the case? And so will they be on the version on TSS?

From what I remember around the time of BWPS there was some talk about headphone bleed and "Child Is Father Of The Man" vocals.  Not sure if anything came of that but that was a hot topic of discussion around here for awhile.  I believe the "Child" vocals on BWPS are modern lyrics by VDP.  Worms had verse vocals written by VDP but were never tracked by The Beach Boys.  The others tracks I believe all had modern vocals written for BWPS.

Edit: Regarding "Surf's Up", I'll bet you a doughnut that the "Child" vocals tracked in 1971 are included on the main portion of the program.  The wordless falsetto will obviously remain intact on the familiar demo version of the song as found on the boxset.  For what it's worth never loved the 71' additions as the wordless falsetto has always been one of my favorite moments in the Beach Boys music rivaling the ending of "You Still Believe In Me".

Ah, that's a shame so much was not finished, especially the lyrics on Look. I was really hoping for that. "Wonderful" through "Surf's Up" on BWPS, the second movement if you will, is probably my favorite 10 minute stretch of music ever. It flows so seamlessly, and I actually love how it all closes up with the "Child" vocals the end, at leas in the BWPS version. I do the love the ending of the demo too.

[punkinhead]

I'm still really curious about the Child acetate. I know I've seen others talk about it before the box set was announced, AGD has spoken of a Child mix that was to appear on Hawthorne. Was he talking about the same thing? It seems odd to me, if that acetate did include original lyrics, why weren't they used on BWPS? Is it possible that the acetate has "guide vocals" and no actual lyrics?

If I said Hawthorne CA, my bad - I meant Endless Harmony, and no, different thing entirely: 11/66 BW mono mix & edit, lasts 3.03. Superb. No vocals at all.

How did you find this out? I know you're in the "know-how" in BW/BB-Universe but was it on an early/proposed tracklist? or an article? Do you know of any other early/proposed tracklisting/songs that didn't make it to the final cut of various compilations? (I.E. GV-30 Years of BB boxed set, Endless Harmony (anyother tunes?), Hawthorne CA, Ultimate Christmas, or Two-fer bonus tracks?)

[runnersdialzero]

5. I'm In Great Shape  (no vocals)
6. Barnyard (missing verse vocals)

Couldn't you just fly in the vocals from the Humble Harv demo?

As proven by Purple Chick, it would sound pretty bad...the piano from the Humble Harv tape would be overpowering.

Not the case for "I'm In Great Shape" imo. Very tired of "It's not on the Purple Chick version, it can't be done/it doesn't exist."

[Jason]

I'm still really curious about the Child acetate. I know I've seen others talk about it before the box set was announced, AGD has spoken of a Child mix that was to appear on Hawthorne. Was he talking about the same thing? It seems odd to me, if that acetate did include original lyrics, why weren't they used on BWPS? Is it possible that the acetate has "guide vocals" and no actual lyrics?

If I said Hawthorne CA, my bad - I meant Endless Harmony, and no, different thing entirely: 11/66 BW mono mix & edit, lasts 3.03. Superb. No vocals at all.

How did you find this out? I know you're in the "know-how" in BW/BB-Universe but was it on an early/proposed tracklist? or an article? Do you know of any other early/proposed tracklisting/songs that didn't make it to the final cut of various compilations? (I.E. GV-30 Years of BB boxed set, Endless Harmony (anyother tunes?), Hawthorne CA, Ultimate Christmas, or Two-fer bonus tracks?)

It's been known for a while that Loop de Loop and Soulful Old Man Sunshine were considered for the box set and voted down by Al and Carl respectively, as was some other Smile material, which was voted down by Brian (as was Let Him Run Wild). The Battle Hymn of the Republic was found during the Endless Harmony tape research and was considered up until a fateful phone call to Mr. Al Jardine ("uh, have you guys actually heard it? Ohhhhh boy..."), plus of course the 11/66 Child edit.

[Chris Moise]

I believe the "Child" vocals on BWPS are modern lyrics by VDP.  Worms had verse vocals written by VDP but were never tracked by The Beach Boys.  The others tracks I believe all had modern vocals written for BWPS.

The thing is VDP has reportedly said he wrote lyrcis for "Child" in 1966. Assuing the disc one version doesn't have verse vocals I hope, at the least, the booklet will have new info on their fate.

[Chris Moise]

Ah, that's a shame so much was not finished, especially the lyrics on Look. I was really hoping for that.

Do we know for certain that lyrics for Look were not written in 1966? Of course, it's possible the lost Oct. 1967 Look vocal session for wordless harmony vocals but I'd think it is just as possible the lads were singing something with words. I hope some light is cast on this in the Smile sessions booklet. Considering they sang on the track maybe Bruce, Al or Mike, not to mention, Brian remembers? It would be a shame if the question isn't asked.

[rab2591]

I believe the "Child" vocals on BWPS are modern lyrics by VDP.  Worms had verse vocals written by VDP but were never tracked by The Beach Boys.  The others tracks I believe all had modern vocals written for BWPS.

The thing is VDP has reportedly said he wrote lyrcis for "Child" in 1966. Assuing the disc one version doesn't have verse vocals I hope, at the least, the booklet will have new info on their fate.

A scan of handwritten '66 "Child" lyrics in the booklet would make a nice treat....wonder how many goodies like that will be in the booklet!

[Jay]

Wasn't the mastering for TLOS and BWPS UK albums different to the US albums, hence there was a noticeable difference in quality?

My EC pressing of TLOS was utterly unlistenable until I ripped it to my iPod (seriously). My US version was, and is, just fine.

That's highly weird.  Surely -- because mastering is SO expensive -- the album wouldn't have been mastered twice?  There's no good reason for that.  Presumably, though, the pressings are different.  In which case, could something in the pressing process have compromised the sound?  Plenty a cheap polymer has krunked a disc along the way.  (I'm looking at you, PDO.)

My only explanation (and it's not a good one) is they sent over the download master by mistake.

That seems skyscrapingly improbable.

Three words: "We Got Love". 

...?  Going to have to fill this idiot in.  What happened there?

'Wrong' master was sent to Germany - before they could stop them, about 300 copies of Holland with "WGL" instead of "SO,S" were pressed. Rarest BB album there is.

So it was the actual song itself, not just on the back cover, or printed on the record tracklist?