The Smiley Smile Message Board

Consider: It has by far the smallest instrumental contribution by the other Beach Boys (aside from Brian) of any album released under the group's name.  The group played on only one track ("That's Not Me").  It was the first and only Beach Boys album not to have the other group members be involved in the writing of the majority of the original songs.  Mike is the only Beach Boy other than Brian credited as writer of any of the cuts, and he's credited on only one song (I'm Waiting for the Day).  Moreover, despite Carl's brilliant lead on God Only Knows, I would say the other Beach Boys' voices are featured less on Pet Sounds than any other LP.  Mike has unusually few leads, Carl only has the one, and Dennis is simply inaudible.  I have read that Brian was often dissatisfied with the group's singing and would come in late at night and wipe all their vocals and re-record all the parts himself -- and frankly, in a lot of places it sounds that way.

Basically, while the Beach Boys were out touring, Brian wrote the entire album with an outsider, Tony Asher (an L.A. hipster).  Then he cut all the instrumental tracks with the Wrecking Crew, a bunch of hip L.A. session cats.  Then when the Beach Boys returned he presented them with this album.  They had no input on the concepts for the songs or the album.  He told them what to sing and they did it.  Frankly, if I'd been in Mike or Al's shoes, I'd have been perturbed too.  (Dennis and Carl as well, but since they were Brian's brothers, it was a little different for them I think.)  Here I am out working hard on the road, earning a lot of money for Brian so he can get stoned with a bunch of Hollywood hepcats and create this music to impress them, without asking me for any input.

Of course, Mike Love would have been a sheet metal worker (and Al Jardine a dentist) if not for Brian Wilson.  But still Brian's behavior seems a little self-centered.  He didn't release Pet Sounds as a Brian Wilson album -- you know why?  Because the general public didn't know who Brian Wilson was.  But they did know the Beach Boys, partly because of the hard touring work of the other five guys, and so Brian used their name to help sell the album.  It may not have met expectations, but it would have done a lot worse without the name "Beach Boys" on it.

Then, after Pet Sounds, came SMiLE.  Brian was still writing on his own, with another LA hepcat (VDP), still using the Wrecking Crew on instruments instead of the group, and getting weirder and more and more wrapped up in the drug scene -- not to mention more demanding and difficult about the group's vocal sessions.  And finally the group rebelled.  SMiLE, in the form Brian envisioned it, got shelved. 

People always wonder why guys like Mike and Al, if they found SMiLE too weird, were willing to accept the even weirder "Smiley Smile."  I think the key is not that SMiLE was weird, it's that they had no input or control over it -- whereas they did have quite a bit of input and control over Smiley Smile.  In the end they preferred to flop on their own terms than simply hitch themselves to Brian's star, and I respect them for that.

And personally I like Brian plus the Beach Boys better than Brian plus Asher or VDP and the Wrecking Crew.  I feel the direction he was going with SMILE was unsustainable and would have broken up the Beach Boys.  Maybe that would've been better for Brian, maybe not.  But I for one am glad they didn't break up.  I'm glad they started playing their own instruments on their records again.  I'd rather hear Denny on drums than Hal Blaine.

And it bothers me that Rolling Stone rates Pet Sounds the #2 album of all time but nothing else the Beach Boys did comes even close.  I love Pet Sounds, but I love Sunflower, Friends, Smiley Smile, Summer Days, and others just as much.

Yeah, but the 5 part harmony that is on every song has the DNA of the Beach Boys all over it. Even if they're not directing the movie, they're still starring in it, so yes it is a Beach Boys album.

look at Summer Days, prolly YOu're so Good to Me and I know for sure Girl Dont tell me are two of the only the BB played on

Nope, they also played at least most of the instruments on Girl From NYC, Amusement Parks and Then He Kissed Me, besides You're So Good and Girl Don't Tell Me. Carl played on at least Cal Girls and Help Me Rhonda. Add in that Bugged is only BW on piano and Dream Comes True being acapella and you have a mostly BB album.
They played on much of Today as well.

Yes, I've only recently (thanks to folks on this board) come to understand how much the BBs played on every album EXCEPT Pet Sounds.  Also, on Summer Days you have a Carl lead vocal, two Al leads, and a bunch of songs with Mike on verses and the Boys on the chorus (Girl from NYC, Amusement Parks, Salt Lake City, California Girls).  Brian only takes the lead on LHRW and YSGTM (and IBAMOM).  Contrast that to Pet Sounds, where Brian has the lead on tracks 1,2,4,5,7 (shared w/Mike), 11, and 13.  Pet Sounds was the Brian Wilson show, whereas Summer Days was definitely not (though Brian was of course the driving force behind it).  And don't forget Mike was lyricist on almost every track on Summer Days, as well.

When you listen to the Brian-only vox mixes on Disc 3 of the box, you can see how much the BB added to the mix, though.

The tracks where Brian doesn't sing lead are the ones that stand out, specifically That's Not Me, God Only Knows and Here Today.  And any parts that Mike sings are refreshing.  Brians voice is all over the album, and as great he is, the group adds a little contrast and a lot of the backing vocals the group provide add a lot of texture to the songs.  I'm thinking about those sliding harmonies on That's Not Me and Here Today specifically...  Hard to pull stuff like that off with one voice, even with overdubs.

But you're right in some respects.  I think part of the reasons why Pet Sounds has become such a popular "favorite album" with music geeks the last 10 years or so is because of how "Un-Beach Boy" it is.  If only they would discover everything's good, and not just Pet Sounds.   :P

I understand the desire to consider this a "Brian album," but it simply is not.  The BB voices are all over it, and their name is on the cover.  End of story for me.

I can't help thinking that Carl was an uncredited guitar-player for some cuts. He did quite often overdub his guitar later or play it directly into the board and not be credited.

Not true. Mike has co-credit on Wouldn't It Be Nice and I Know There's An Answer.

Yes, but he wasn't credited initially on those cuts; his name was added in the mid-90s after he won the lyric credit lawsuit against Brian. Mike admitted that he only wrote "Goodnight my baby, sleep tight my baby" for WIBN; I think he claims to have come up with the title line to "I Know There's An Answer" although Brian credited road manager Terry Sachen with that.

Sorry, but as much as I enjoy Smiley Smile, it's not in the same universe as Pet Sounds. And SMiLE ('67) would have been sensational and triumphant, especially in its day.

Brian Wilson was absolutely made for his times, and it's a shame that at least some of the Beach Boys tried to hamper him in pursuing his vision. When Mozart's in your corner, you let him call the shots.

Carl's famous baseball analogy is as apt as they come: Instead of hitting a grandy, BW tried bunting the Beach Boys over. Out at the plate.

I think this is another overlooked issue in the whole Pet Sounds/SMiLE era history of the Beach Boys.  At the time, Mike had basically just gotten screwed out of his lyric-writing credits on the whole Summer Days album and a bunch of other cuts.  I mean, of course, Brian was responsible for the music, the arrangement, and the production, but still Mike deserved credit for his work, and he didn't get it until he sued three decades later.

I guess the bigger issue for me is that I don't see Pet Sounds and SMiLE as being any better than a lot of other albums -- Sunflower, Surf's Up, Smiley Smile, Wild Honey, Summer Days, Friends, All Summer Long, Surfer Girl -- on which the Beach Boys were really involved.  I guess for whatever reason Brian wasn't able to be happy within the musical "constraints" of the Beach Boys the way the other guys were.  But I prefer hearing his music alongside that of his brothers (and yes Mike and Al), made together in the studio, with all of them contributing instrumentally, as they did on pretty much every album except Pet Sounds and SMiLE.

I believe they were playing more on SMiLE than they were on Pet Sounds. Carl's in there quite a bit, as is Dennis (IIRC).

Pet Sounds is a Beach Boys album.

Yes, that's right. So what?

Maybe some of us forgot to look at the label? :o

Well, since this thread appears to be addressing the question of whether "Pet Sounds" should be considered a Beach Boys album (or perhaps more accurately, whether the touring Beach Boys' role was significantly reduced in the making of this record), I thought it was appropriate to reference Mike's contribution as a lyric writer. "busy doin nothin" proposed that Mike contributed to only one song (one that was written back in '64) which would be considered quite a drop-off from his contribution to the "Summer Days" album. You correctly noted that he is now credited on three songs. My post was to clarify that those credits were added in the '90s (in case "busy doin nothin" or anyone else wondered why they couldn't find the credits on an early vinyl or first CD release) as well as point out that they were still minor contributions, furthering the theory that Brian did not actively seek other group members' input in the creation of the album.

I think it's a given that Brian wanted the "Pet Sounds" album to be a less collaborative effort than anything the group had done before (no one has yet to bring up the fact that "Caroline, No" was released as a solo single). "Good Vibrations" offered a slight reprieve in that Brian asked Mike to write the final lyric draft, but "SMiLE" pushed the whole genius/Svengali issue over the edge resulting in an increasingly democratic group (not often in the best sense of that word, however!). I think Mike's current lawsuit with its reference to the harm caused by Brian dropping Love's "Good Vibration" lyrics demonstrates that these solo/group issues are still current.

OK, I see what you mean. I was just correcting the actual credits in my post.

And for what it's worth, I recall reading that Brian was very adament that he use the boys for their vocal blend as it had texture second to none - he definitely wanted to use Mike's voice on lead in a few spots...he was just evolving musically and there is the little discussed yet obvious fact that the guys could not be two places at once, and they needed to tour. Brian had no choice but to press forward without them most of the time.

Brian has said that he sang a good majority of the songs because he felt so strongly about the topics that he wanted to be the one delivering them. Brian did vocals for God Only Knows, Sloop John B, I Know There's An Answer, Here Today, but you don't see him on lead on the released album. Brian was a PRODUCER, meaning that he had to choose according to results. Just because his best friend whines, doesn't mean he can sacrifice his work to make someone feel good, (Though this possibly happened to SMiLE). Didn't Brian call Carl and the guys while they were touring? He played them cuts from the album, detailing how it would eventually be as one cohesive project. I'm sure Brian thought of going solo numerous times, but is that not just a vastly inflated ego playing around?

No.

Yes.

I actually think the answer to this much debated question lies on "Sloop John B".

Do you consider Sloop John B to be a Beach Boys song?

A Beach Boys song by name but by style?

Does Brian have singing parts?

Does Mike?

Does Al?

Does Carl?

.........

In a way that song speaks for the album. To focus in on Post-Pet Sounds (SMiLE) is irrelevant. One could argue that Brian was succumbing to Capitol by making a more light hearted album (in a way), rather than the deeply introspective Pet Sounds.

Yes, as much as any of the Beach Boys records were Beach Boys records, inasmuch as they contain songs by Brian Wilson and performed vocally by the Beach Boys.

Well, and it says Beach Boys on the sleeve and such.

I see busy doin nothin's point. With the possible exception of The Beach Boys Love You, Pet Sounds is the closest thing we have to a Brian Wilson solo album - including his actual solo albums!

That being said, Pet Sounds is a Beach Boys' album. It's the best representation of the "Brian Wilson is The Beach Boys, we're just his messengers" album that they ever did...