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Author Topic: History of Mike's reputation  (Read 77234 times)
Nicko
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« Reply #150 on: January 06, 2010, 08:56:29 PM »

One of the books written about Pet Sounds, I think the one written by Charles L. Granata, paints a slightly different picture of events to the one that Tony Asher mentions in his interview. In that book it states that Mike only claimed to have written the 'goodnight baby, sleep tight baby' ending to the song. From the tone of the book, it sounded like that wasn't really disputed in court but that Brian's lawyers argued that it didn't constitute enough to be given a songwriting credit. It was only then that Mike's lawyer started talking nonsense about Mike maybe talking to Brian over the phone.

I don't think it's any surprise that Tony Asher would have negative things to say about Mike as Mike obviously wasn't happy that Brian had replaced him as a lyricist and probably wasn't best pleased if, as Marilyn has claimed, TA was a negative influence on Brian.

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« Reply #151 on: January 07, 2010, 12:06:45 AM »

Hey, man! If I wrote the "goodnight baby, sleep tight, baby" part on Wouldn't It Be Nice: I'm pretty sure I'd want credit! I mean, if Brian can contribute one word or two to Deirdre or whatever, and get a credit, sh*t! I'd want credit too!!!

The whole Mike/Brian thing bugs me deeply. Maybe I'm a moronic naif or simply the kind of Luddite that the market research groups pushed Kokomo on, but I happen to like EVERYTHING the Beach Boys ever did! I'm a segment of the fans that I hardly ever hear mentioned. It IS possible to love MIU Album JUST has much as Pet Sounds. I mean, the earth aint even round, ya know? It's more of an oval! Weirder phenomena is out there! I love all 5 Beach Boys! I love each guy's voice/personality/quirks/songs, and what they all brought to the table as a whole. AND I think they are ALL geniuses in their own rights! See? And if you love The Beach Boys as a unified, complicated, yet singular entity..... there really is no Brian vs Mike vs the other no-talents... there is only The Beach Boys! Bands fight like dogs! It's nothing new, nothing unusual, but when you brand one guy as the genius, (which Brian IS) you have trouble! I mean, how many bands are there with 5 freaking writers and lead singers? YOU try holding that together for more than a week or two. Most bands fizzle within a few days in the garage due to egos and direction and who's songs are being used, etc.... The Beach Boys were a kick ass unit who did the business in a big way! They all rule and could kick all our asses back into last week. I don't even think Brian likes being singled out as having done everything. He really is a fair minded and good guy, from what I can tell. And if Mike's an asshole: he wrote the lyrics to Warmth Of The Sun and you didn't!
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« Reply #152 on: January 07, 2010, 12:27:23 AM »

One interesting thing from the Tony Asher interview is that you would think that if anyone was going to be angry about the other band members disliking Pet Sounds, you would think it would be him. His response however was,

'The group was less than enthusiastic about the material. They, along with many others, were hoping and expecting more of what had been hits for them all along. I don't think that's so unreasonable. At that point in the music business, the conventional wisdom was that you keep doing what's selling. They had just returned from a very successful tour. So they didn't see the wisdom in changing the "formula". In a way, of course, they were shown to be right. Sort of. The album, after all, was nothing like the economic success of their immediately previous releases.'

It's sad that some finds just brand the band members as idiots for that reaction when one of the guys most affected can look upon it in this way.
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« Reply #153 on: January 07, 2010, 03:52:25 AM »

The other thing is that Mike did come around on Pet Sounds pretty fast. He's made it known that he dislikes some of Smile but he has always talked about the album very positively. The facts are that he did some great vocals on the album and the little he wrote was good.

I don't want to come off like Mike is a saint. Just recently it seems he treated David Marks crappy but creatively he did some worthy things and that's all I'm trying to point out.
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« Reply #154 on: January 07, 2010, 08:07:45 AM »

One interesting thing from the Tony Asher interview is that you would think that if anyone was going to be angry about the other band members disliking Pet Sounds, you would think it would be him. His response however was,

'The group was less than enthusiastic about the material. They, along with many others, were hoping and expecting more of what had been hits for them all along. I don't think that's so unreasonable. At that point in the music business, the conventional wisdom was that you keep doing what's selling. They had just returned from a very successful tour. So they didn't see the wisdom in changing the "formula". In a way, of course, they were shown to be right. Sort of. The album, after all, was nothing like the economic success of their immediately previous releases.'

It's sad that some finds just brand the band members as idiots for that reaction when one of the guys most affected can look upon it in this way.

Where any of Tony Asher's lyrics left in 'Good Vibrations'?  If so shouldn't he have received credit - especially since Mike got credit for his WIBN contribution?
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« Reply #155 on: January 07, 2010, 08:09:10 AM »

Hey, man! If I wrote the "goodnight baby, sleep tight, baby" part on Wouldn't It Be Nice: I'm pretty sure I'd want credit! I mean, if Brian can contribute one word or two to Deirdre or whatever, and get a credit, merda! I'd want credit too!!!

Totally different situation - Bruce willingly gave Brian half the song. Mike was claiming significant artistic input based on his appending five words to the tag. Not the melody, not the verse or chorus lyric, nor the middle-eight. The fade. And for this, he gets a substantial slice of the royalties. Mike has recently seen the pendulumn swing back his way, but in this instance, he was flat-out wrong: he made no significant compositional contribution to the song.
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« Reply #156 on: January 07, 2010, 10:31:40 AM »

Hey, man! If I wrote the "goodnight baby, sleep tight, baby" part on Wouldn't It Be Nice: I'm pretty sure I'd want credit! I mean, if Brian can contribute one word or two to Deirdre or whatever, and get a credit, merda! I'd want credit too!!!

Totally different situation - Bruce willingly gave Brian half the song. Mike was claiming significant artistic input based on his appending five words to the tag. Not the melody, not the verse or chorus lyric, nor the middle-eight. The fade. And for this, he gets a substantial slice of the royalties. Mike has recently seen the pendulumn swing back his way, but in this instance, he was flat-out wrong: he made no significant compositional contribution to the song.

I wonder though Andrew, does anybody know exactly what percentage of the songwriting credit Mike receieved?  Even if he's now listed as a co-writer with Tony and Brian, he doesn't necessarily get 1/3.  Perhaps they adjusted the percentages to reflect his minimal contribution, i.e. given Mike 5% and split the other 95% per Brian and Tony's original agreement (which I believe was a 75/25 split in favor of Brian). 
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« Reply #157 on: January 07, 2010, 12:07:21 PM »

Hey, man! If I wrote the "goodnight baby, sleep tight, baby" part on Wouldn't It Be Nice: I'm pretty sure I'd want credit! I mean, if Brian can contribute one word or two to Deirdre or whatever, and get a credit, merda! I'd want credit too!!!

Totally different situation - Bruce willingly gave Brian half the song. Mike was claiming significant artistic input based on his appending five words to the tag. Not the melody, not the verse or chorus lyric, nor the middle-eight. The fade. And for this, he gets a substantial slice of the royalties. Mike has recently seen the pendulumn swing back his way, but in this instance, he was flat-out wrong: he made no significant compositional contribution to the song.

I wonder though Andrew, does anybody know exactly what percentage of the songwriting credit Mike receieved?  Even if he's now listed as a co-writer with Tony and Brian, he doesn't necessarily get 1/3.  Perhaps they adjusted the percentages to reflect his minimal contribution, i.e. given Mike 5% and split the other 95% per Brian and Tony's original agreement (which I believe was a 75/25 split in favor of Brian). 

I'll have to check my sources, but I recall that he got a lot more than 5%, closer to a third.
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« Reply #158 on: January 07, 2010, 12:27:06 PM »

Interesting subject. I'd also like to know the percentages that were arrived at.  Fun fact: every time Frank Sinatra added the word "Jack" to a song, he was added to the credits.  "Something in the way she moves- Jack!"= Harrison/Sinatra.  (Of course, Sinatra always attributed the song to Lennon/McCartney).  I think Aretha Franklin may have some royalties coming now, too- she did a lot of improvising over tags.

One I can break down for you- seriously- is "Layla". (Not the confusion over Jim Gordon's piano section, that's another story). When Eric Clapton invited Duane Allman to play on the song, he played him the low part of the opening riff, as you hear on the record. Allman responded with the high, wailing part over Clapton's, exactly as you hear on the record" Clapton low, and then Allman high.  If I asked you to hum the riff from "Layla" for me, you'd hum Allman's part.  It amounts to only the last five notes being different, but it defines the song.  (Allman also plays the beautiful slide guitar over Gordon's piano in the second section, and closes it all out with his signature "bird chirps"). For this, Allman got a 2% royalty (never paid until his daughter sued about five years ago), but no composer's credit.

On the other hand, McCartney has always said that  people threw things in to his songs with Lennon, and they considered that below the radar of significance.  They were freely offered, and either taken or not taken at the composer's discretion. The song was still by Lennon and McCartney.  And in that spirit, they apparently threw a lot of ideas to other people uncredited.  The big known example of an uncredited  toss-in, obviously, is Donovan's "sky of blue, sea of green" from "Yellow Submarine". 

I think McCartney also commissioned the French lyrics to "Michelle", and while he didn't give credit ("it's almost a co-write", he said) he has continued to pay a woman for that.  Somebody correct me if I'm misremembering.

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« Reply #159 on: January 07, 2010, 01:32:55 PM »

Hey, man! If I wrote the "goodnight baby, sleep tight, baby" part on Wouldn't It Be Nice: I'm pretty sure I'd want credit! I mean, if Brian can contribute one word or two to Deirdre or whatever, and get a credit, merda! I'd want credit too!!!

The whole Mike/Brian thing bugs me deeply. Maybe I'm a moronic naif or simply the kind of Luddite that the market research groups pushed Kokomo on, but I happen to like EVERYTHING the Beach Boys ever did! I'm a segment of the fans that I hardly ever hear mentioned. It IS possible to love MIU Album JUST has much as Pet Sounds. I mean, the earth aint even round, ya know? It's more of an oval! Weirder phenomena is out there! I love all 5 Beach Boys! I love each guy's voice/personality/quirks/songs, and what they all brought to the table as a whole. AND I think they are ALL geniuses in their own rights! See? And if you love The Beach Boys as a unified, complicated, yet singular entity..... there really is no Brian vs Mike vs the other no-talents... there is only The Beach Boys! Bands fight like dogs! It's nothing new, nothing unusual, but when you brand one guy as the genius, (which Brian IS) you have trouble! I mean, how many bands are there with 5 freaking writers and lead singers? YOU try holding that together for more than a week or two. Most bands fizzle within a few days in the garage due to egos and direction and who's songs are being used, etc.... The Beach Boys were a kick ass unit who did the business in a big way! They all rule and could kick all our asses back into last week. I don't even think Brian likes being singled out as having done everything. He really is a fair minded and good guy, from what I can tell. And if Mike's an butthole: he wrote the lyrics to Warmth Of The Sun and you didn't!

Good post, Erik. I do agree with most of what you wrote; you lost me with the part about them ALL being geniuses. Cheesy Seriously, I believe it was MBE who made a similar observation a few weeks back (and I don't want to put words in his mouth) about, if you like the Beach Boys' music, he couldn't see why fans couldn't like or appreciate all of the guys' contributions, or why a fan would like this member but not that member. I like ALL of the Beach Boys' albums (actually, almost every song, too) and I like all of the Beach Boys' members. I agreed with his point. The only reason I go out of my way to defend Mike Love or not defend Brian Wilson is because too much hypocrisy goes on. I'm glad to see the tide is turning. So, along those lines...

Again, when it comes to the songwriting royalties, I can empathize with Mike. If you are going to court, and you hire a high-priced attorney, and you feel that you've been cheated for about 30 years - in both credit and dollars - then I can see why one/Mike would go more on the side of trying to take more credit than less. Why short change yourself now. Who was thinking about you for the last 30 years? Murry? Brian? Melinda? I would tell my attorney about every syllable I ever contributed to any song. That is not the time to be humble and say, "Well, I wrote a couple of words for one of the greatest songs in the history of popular music, but, nah, you don't have to mention it in court...." Are you nuts!? Of course I'm gonna mention it. And, the bigger question for all Mike Love haters....Wouldn't you? Of course you would. And, then, it's up to a judge. Not Mike. Not his attorney. Hey, send your complaints to the judge. Or Brian's management.

Of course Brian Wilson wouldn't take credit for things he didn't do. I mean, we all know how accurate his solo credits have been the last ten years in the areas of songwriting, production, and arranging. Roll Eyes
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Nicko
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« Reply #160 on: January 07, 2010, 02:17:16 PM »


Totally different situation - Bruce willingly gave Brian half the song. Mike was claiming significant artistic input based on his appending five words to the tag. Not the melody, not the verse or chorus lyric, nor the middle-eight. The fade. And for this, he gets a substantial slice of the royalties. Mike has recently seen the pendulumn swing back his way, but in this instance, he was flat-out wrong: he made no significant compositional contribution to the song.

Mike was only asking for 750,000 in total though and the report on the trial stated that Mike wasn't asking for specific percentages. He just wanted his name on those songs. So again, I would say that comes down to Brian's management's decision not to settle out of court.

As another poster said, if I'd been Mike then I would have mentioned writing those words too (there may only be 5 of them but I think that they are pretty important to the song and improve it). It was up to the court to make a decision on whether they were sufficient for a credit and they went with Mike.
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« Reply #161 on: January 07, 2010, 02:19:37 PM »


I think McCartney also commissioned the French lyrics to "Michelle", and while he didn't give credit ("it's almost a co-write", he said) he has continued to pay a woman for that.  Somebody correct me if I'm misremembering.



Paul says in the Barry Miles book he gave  the line "these are words that go together well" to a friend who translated it into French for him.  He indeed calls it "almost a co-write" and says he guilted himself into eventually sending her a check, for how much he doesn't say.
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« Reply #162 on: January 07, 2010, 06:40:23 PM »

"Are you nuts!? Of course I'm gonna mention it. And, the bigger question for all Mike Love haters....Wouldn't you? Of course you would."

I wouldn't do it, myself.  But I'm coming from another perspective; I AM a songwriter, and I've had the experience of band members coming in, changing something very minimal to the song when it's already basically finished, and then demanding a co-composer credit based on their own perception of their contribution.  Given the amount of work that goes into writing a song and sweating blood to get it into shape, to have someone add something that is not all that key to the song and demand equal credit/royalties when I did 99% of the work, it's just not cool.

This works both ways too.  I wrote more of Baby Lemonade's "Pop Tarte" than Mike Love did of "Wouldn't It Be Nice" and my name isn't on the songwriting credits.  Which is fine by me, because my contribution to the song was very minimal and really didn't have much impact on how it came out.  I didn't expect a credit and would have been embarrassed to claim it.  If you're a songwriter by trade, this kind of thing is a big deal.
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« Reply #163 on: January 07, 2010, 07:00:03 PM »

There's a great scene in the Dixie Chicks' doc SHUT UP AND SING where Red Hot Chilli Peppers' drummer Chad Smith is telling the Chicks about how the Peppers share all of the songwriting credits regardless of who wrote the song. Emily Robison sheepishly says, "you know if I am the drummer in the band, I wouldn't feel right asking for a writing credit even if I played on the song." I immediaitely thought of how greedy Mike Love was during the lawsuit. 
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« Reply #164 on: January 07, 2010, 08:06:40 PM »

There's a great scene in the Dixie Chicks' doc SHUT UP AND SING where Red Hot Chilli Peppers' drummer Chad Smith is telling the Chicks about how the Peppers share all of the songwriting credits regardless of who wrote the song. Emily Robison sheepishly says, "you know if I am the drummer in the band, I wouldn't feel right asking for a writing credit even if I played on the song." I immediaitely thought of how greedy Mike Love was during the lawsuit. 
Was and still is-the lifestyle, the absurd touring to support that lifestyle, the rings, hats, lawyers, ex-wives, coattails-The Greedster-what a man! Whatever!
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« Reply #165 on: January 07, 2010, 11:11:12 PM »

"Are you nuts!? Of course I'm gonna mention it. And, the bigger question for all Mike Love haters....Wouldn't you? Of course you would."

I wouldn't do it, myself.  But I'm coming from another perspective; I AM a songwriter, and I've had the experience of band members coming in, changing something very minimal to the song when it's already basically finished, and then demanding a co-composer credit based on their own perception of their contribution.  Given the amount of work that goes into writing a song and sweating blood to get it into shape, to have someone add something that is not all that key to the song and demand equal credit/royalties when I did 99% of the work, it's just not cool.

This works both ways too.  I wrote more of Baby Lemonade's "Pop Tarte" than Mike Love did of "Wouldn't It Be Nice" and my name isn't on the songwriting credits.  Which is fine by me, because my contribution to the song was very minimal and really didn't have much impact on how it came out.  I didn't expect a credit and would have been embarrassed to claim it.  If you're a songwriter by trade, this kind of thing is a big deal. [/color]





Adam, I can dig this to a large extent, but not across the board. BTW, when it comes to band, there can be this bullmerda line in the sand where it's like, "Ok, I'm a songwriter because I play guitar and sing, and you're not because all you do is play bass or drums" and sure, that's accurate in some cases, but in a lot of cases it's not. I mean, if a lot of songwriters, leaders of bands would grant a freaking "songs arranged by" credit, other band members would be happy and go out their duties, but most don't and all the blood sweat and tears that bands go through making songs kick ass in the full bass drums guitar (and whatever else spectrum) is ignored and all the "glory" goes to the guy who came in with a few chords and some lyrics. Not to belittle that input, but c'mon' we all don't listen to Zepplin just to marvel over Robert Plant's lyrics! Most of us just groove on Bonham!!! It's all in how each team plays it. In Mr. Love's case, he was IN THE BAND in question. And not just in the band but singing lead on a lot of songs and was a founding/full corporate member. To blast the guy for claiming credit to the CODA of Wouldn't It Be Nice is a bit daff.
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« Reply #166 on: January 07, 2010, 11:22:51 PM »

Hey, man! If I wrote the "goodnight baby, sleep tight, baby" part on Wouldn't It Be Nice: I'm pretty sure I'd want credit! I mean, if Brian can contribute one word or two to Deirdre or whatever, and get a credit, merda! I'd want credit too!!!

Totally different situation - Bruce willingly gave Brian half the song. Mike was claiming significant artistic input based on his appending five words to the tag. Not the melody, not the verse or chorus lyric, nor the middle-eight. The fade. And for this, he gets a substantial slice of the royalties. Mike has recently seen the pendulumn swing back his way, but in this instance, he was flat-out wrong: he made no significant compositional contribution to the song.

I wonder though Andrew, does anybody know exactly what percentage of the songwriting credit Mike receieved?  Even if he's now listed as a co-writer with Tony and Brian, he doesn't necessarily get 1/3.  Perhaps they adjusted the percentages to reflect his minimal contribution, i.e. given Mike 5% and split the other 95% per Brian and Tony's original agreement (which I believe was a 75/25 split in favor of Brian). 

I'll have to check my sources, but I recall that he got a lot more than 5%, closer to a third.

If Mike really ended up with anywhere near 1/3, Brian's lawyers were even more incompetent than I thought (which is a pretty big hurdle to climb).  No way in hell that 5 words entitle anyone to such a significant share of a songwriting credit, regardless of how "important" the contribution may be in retrospect.  Moreover, I don't believe anybody but Mike has ever admitted that he wrote the words in question - it is well documented that Tony wrote the words to that song alone.  Mike must have argued that he came up with them in the studio during the vocal sessions.  But regardless...

I agree with adamghost - throwing in a few words or a little idea into a song doesn't entitle you to a credit.  If that were the case, shouldn't members of the Wrecking Crew get credits on the songs where they may have made up a riff here or there?  I can understand if you made a significant contribution to the lyrics, which I'm sure Mike did on most of the songs that were the subject of the lawsuit.  But awarding Mike anything more than a small percentage of the songwriting credit on "Wouldn't It Be Nice" is asinine.
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« Reply #167 on: January 07, 2010, 11:40:02 PM »

Coming up with the words during the recording sessions vs coming up with them during a formal writing session makes no difference. And if we want to go counting words, there are what, 6 sentences in Wouldn't It Be Nice and then the 3 sentence bridge? I'd count a 5 word coda as being just about as important as the rest of the song. I mean, this has nothing to do with how well we like the person in question or not. And in a court of law Mike Love being a merdahole or not, has no bearing.

And I agree about the wrecking crew! If they were to pursue arranging/writing credits on some of those song, they might have a leg to stand on. Maybe they should have. Who knows! Songwriting credits in popular music, particularly in rock and roll are a tricky thing. So, one guy has the gall to ask for credit? Big deal!
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« Reply #168 on: January 08, 2010, 12:31:49 AM »


I wouldn't do it, myself.  But I'm coming from another perspective; I AM a songwriter, and I've had the experience of band members coming in, changing something very minimal to the song when it's already basically finished, and then demanding a co-composer credit based on their own perception of their contribution.  Given the amount of work that goes into writing a song and sweating blood to get it into shape, to have someone add something that is not all that key to the song and demand equal credit/royalties when I did 99% of the work, it's just not cool. 

I think that's the whole point. Mike DIDN'T ask for equal credit or royalties according to that article. He just wanted a percentage and, like another poster said, if he did get a third share then it is entirely down to the incompetence of Brian's lawyers and management.
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« Reply #169 on: January 08, 2010, 12:46:35 AM »

There's a great scene in the Dixie Chicks' doc SHUT UP AND SING where Red Hot Chilli Peppers' drummer Chad Smith is telling the Chicks about how the Peppers share all of the songwriting credits regardless of who wrote the song. Emily Robison sheepishly says, "you know if I am the drummer in the band, I wouldn't feel right asking for a writing credit even if I played on the song." I immediaitely thought of how greedy Mike Love was during the lawsuit. 

Again, Mike wanted to settle out of court for 750,000. As he obviously was cheated out of the writing credits to some massively important songs including California Girls which, as that article states, is worth a fortune on its own. Certainly not an unreasonable sum.

You could certainly argue that the greed (if that's the right word) came earlier when Murry cheated him, and Brian (though obviously it's partly understandable) didn't ensure that Mike got the credits he deserved.

I can understand people debating the merits of including certain songs in the suit. But even if Mike had only been cheated out of California Girls, he would have been right to sue after Brian's management gave him little choice. I certainly would have done the same.

It's interesting that in the case of Matthew Fisher, the general sympathy seemed to be with him as he had been cheated out of the credit for one song for and it had caused him suffering for several decades. Nobody seriously questioned whether he was right to sue or claimed that he was greedy. Mike was obviously treated even worse and just because Brian was involved doesn't mean he should have had to accept being shat upon from a great height.
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« Reply #170 on: January 08, 2010, 05:38:23 AM »

Nicko and I agree.

One thing I'm interested in is who was actually sued and was there more than one suit?  I've seen documentation of a suit with Mike v. Irving Music et al with some subsidiaries of Irving and some lawyers and Brian as the et al. If that is the only suit, who actually paid? Several years ago it was claimed that Brian had never paid anything to Mike, have no idea if that was true or is still true.

So we can blame Mike for asking for credit for something  he contributed but the jury and judge can be blamed for the extent of credit, Mike tried to collect next to nothing for all of the credit he felt, and a jury and judge who actually heard the evidence felt, due him.  Nitpicking about WIBN seems a little .......well...nitpicky.
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« Reply #171 on: January 08, 2010, 06:05:17 AM »


I agree with adamghost - throwing in a few words or a little idea into a song doesn't entitle you to a credit.  If that were the case, shouldn't members of the Wrecking Crew get credits on the songs where they may have made up a riff here or there?  I can understand if you made a significant contribution to the lyrics, which I'm sure Mike did on most of the songs that were the subject of the lawsuit.  But awarding Mike anything more than a small percentage of the songwriting credit on "Wouldn't It Be Nice" is asinine.

Yes, by the logic of Mike (or his lawyers), Ringo should have demanded a credit for A Hard Day's Night because supposedly he came up with that phrase. And that makes the song. "Good night oh baby, sleep tight oh baby" sounds like a singer riffing at the end of a song, like Sinatra or Ella might have done. It does not make that person a writer on that song.
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« Reply #172 on: January 08, 2010, 08:53:01 AM »

Why don't we nitpick about those Brian/Carl/Dennis/Al credits in Friends? I bet one of those four contributed as much as Mike did to WIBN. Yeah, I know: But then, Brian was the main songwriter and wanted so in 1968. Ok.

Mike's credits for WIBN are less revolting than having him uncredited for almost 30 years for California Girls alone. But that's just MHO.
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Nicko
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« Reply #173 on: January 08, 2010, 09:08:18 AM »


Yes, by the logic of Mike (or his lawyers), Ringo should have demanded a credit for A Hard Day's Night because supposedly he came up with that phrase. And that makes the song. "Good night oh baby, sleep tight oh baby" sounds like a singer riffing at the end of a song, like Sinatra or Ella might have done. It does not make that person a writer on that song.

Brian got a writing credit on No Wrong Notes in Heaven for exactly that reason didn't he? Anyway, if Ringo had been cheated out of the credit for 29 other songs then, who knows, maybe he would have later claimed a credit for Hard Days Night. Even if it's not a great comparison with Mike's claimed contribution on WIBN.
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« Reply #174 on: January 08, 2010, 09:13:16 AM »


Yes, by the logic of Mike (or his lawyers), Ringo should have demanded a credit for A Hard Day's Night because supposedly he came up with that phrase. And that makes the song. "Good night oh baby, sleep tight oh baby" sounds like a singer riffing at the end of a song, like Sinatra or Ella might have done. It does not make that person a writer on that song.

Brian got a writing credit on No Wrong Notes in Heaven for exactly that reason didn't he? Anyway, if Ringo had been cheated out of the credit for 29 other songs then, who knows, maybe he would have later claimed a credit for Hard Days Night. Even if it's not a great comparison with Mike's claimed contribution on WIBN.

I have no idea what Brian's contributions to No Wrong Notes in Heaven were. I assume the title? If that's the case, then no, I don't think he should have gotten credit. If he arranged the harmonies, then he should have gotten an arranger's credit, like he has (I guess) for other people's songs-- not a co-writing credit. As for Ringo, the same principle applies: If he made a legitimate contribution to 29 songs, then he would have a right to go to court for them (my opinion about the pettiness of litigation, particularly where close friends and family are involved, notwithstanding), but A Hard Day's Night would not be a legitimate claim.
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