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I've never had a problem with the idea of Mike trying to write again with Brian.

I think over the years Mike would seem to sometimes be more into *talking* about it than actually trying to do it.

But as a concept, how could anybody not at least wonder what they could come up with if they tried?

The problem is that this became a sort of sticking point or talking point for Mike surrounding the aftermath of the reunion project, and I think most fans tend to feel the way I do, which is that Mike and Brian collaborating is a great idea, but it shouldn't be what doing an album or a tour is contingent on. And, to be fair, I don't think it ever was. I don't think Mike not getting to write with Brian was *the* reason the reunion fell apart. That's a much more complicated story of course.

As for *now*, I think that's a big open question with not a lot of potential affirmative outcomes. As best as I can tell, Brian is probably in a state where he can still "do" music. What exactly that might entail, I don't think we know. It's been well documented that even people with degenerative/cognitive issues can continue to sing and play to a surprisingly high standard. We've seen this with examples like Glen Campbell and Tony Bennett. But that seemed to, as far as I can tell, entail performing old "standards" that were very ingrained/etched into their musical memory. So with Brian, if I had to guess, I think for quite some time he'll probably be able to remember and sing and play tons of songs when he's having a good day. But can he (or does he want to) write new songs, or even workshop incomplete or old compositions? I don't know. Maybe Brian doesn't know.

What I do know is that, even going back over the last 25+ years, Brian has needed a sympathetic, empathetic writing partner that knows how to work with Brian, who knows how to capture and take note of what he puts down. It sometimes might entail, as Joe Thomas apparently did in the late 90s, taping numerous short-form, maybe sometimes stream-of-consciousness pieces that might be able to be further refined, compiled, etc. And *that* type of process is not something that seems to have ever been something that Mike Love can facilitate. In other words, *if* Brian is in good enough shape these days to have a good day where he could sit down with Mike and riff on some stuff an "see what happens", they'd probably need a third person there, either during or certainly after, to refine what they do. I'm sure someone like Darian could do this.

To be clear, I'm trying to stay open minded and not make any assumptions one way or the other about Brian's condition. I'm not putting my head in the sand about any of this. I think it's possible that Brian's just not in good enough shape to do anything like this. That time may have passed. And, I don't even know how I feel about the idea of just taping Brian's every moment at a piano for the rest of his life and like having someone else try to stitch together things from that. But I'm open to the idea that he perhaps has good days where musical things could still happen.

On Glen Campbell's final tour, he performed a few songs from Ghost on the Canvas. I'm sure he relied on the teleprompters for those songs.

In the new beach reunion, it almost looks like the guys are toasting with glasses of water.   Guess no one ever told them that was bad luck!

Bad luck? What could happen to these guys now? One of them dies? One decides to sue another? They record a reunion album that nobody buys?

In the new beach reunion, it almost looks like the guys are toasting with glasses of water.   Guess no one ever told them that was bad luck!

[he had to convince them]

Al mentioned in a Q&A on one of his recent cruise gigs that the filmmakers didn't even want them to do any playing/singing, and he had to convince them to let him have a guitar on hand just in case they might want to sing together. Subsequently, several have mentioned that they sang a few songs together during this meet-up.

But it might be worth pondering the question, what if the filmmakers kept to their original idea of just making this essentially a "photo op" situation in the documentary? Wouldn't it be kind of nuts if they didn't even include any of the songs from that day in the final documentary? It would be nuts.....right?

I'm trying to wrap my head around a filmmaker having the gall to tell any of the Beach Boys that they can't sing or play music together. And yes I understand that there are rules and timelines and equipment considerations and yada yada having to do with filming a scene like this, but good golly it's The Beach Boys, figure it out. If the music sucks, then don't put it in your little film, but let The Beach Boys do what they want to do.

I guess I find it hard to believe that if this were Paul and Ringo, that Paul would have to stoop to begging a director to let him take a guitar onto the set for a possible jam session. It just sounds absurd.

Here's the direct YouTube link to this little video clip:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_74NLBJDMc&t=51s


Al mentioned in a Q&A on one of his recent cruise gigs that the filmmakers didn't even want them to do any playing/singing, and he had to convince them to let him have a guitar on hand just in case they might want to sing together. Subsequently, several have mentioned that they sang a few songs together during this meet-up.

But it might be worth pondering the question, what if the filmmakers kept to their original idea of just making this essentially a "photo op" situation in the documentary? Wouldn't it be kind of nuts if they didn't even include any of the songs from that day in the final documentary? It would be nuts.....right?

The Beach Boys Hold ‘Family Reunion’ at ‘Surfin’ Safari’ Spot in Clip From Band’s Documentary
Director Frank Marshall brings Brian Wilson, Mike Love, Al Jardine, and more back to Paradise Cove in this exclusive excerpt from The Beach Boys






https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/the-beach-boys-family-reunion-documentary-clip-1235021836/?

The part of this which is hard to figure out in terms of Mike writing with Brian is that when reading through the Joe Thomas interview, Brian and Mike DID write together, and as others have said, in a way that's more in line with their previous successful collaborations like California Girls and Good Vibrations than Mike's ideal "room with a piano" scenario, or starting something from scratch. I don't know if Mike is/was looking for something to gripe about, or just bitching for the sake of it, but the Thomas interview clearly states that Mike and Brian co-wrote those songs mentioned, in the way they had done before. It goes against some of Mike's claims in subsequent years that he wasn't allowed to write with Brian, or whatever his claims were.

100%. To try to be fair to Mike, I think there is probably a subtext to his complaints, which is that the TWGMTR project was mostly formed without him. He probably feels like this has happened many times in the Beach Boys' career -- "OK Mike, here's what we're going to be doing, here are the songs in development, and here are the parts you're going to sing" -- and especially for a guy that is used to calling all the shots for the touring band, it's likely kind of a triggering dynamic for him.

But on the 'writing with Brian in a room' bit specifically, yes, it's hard to know how it could have been any closer to what Mike claims to want. It sounds like goalposts got moved, and most likely will keep getting moved no matter what.

Thanks, Angela...man, those lyrics are (literally) all over the map...clearly SOS was a tune that Brian had worked on before, maybe as a feel, and might have had 2-3 different sets of lyrics from Ray Kennedy and Tandyn Almer from when they were banging it out while "slightly altered" at Danny Hutton's house...at this point it looks like VDP gets into the act and the smorgasbord of lyrics will take another spin around the buffet table...but the rudiments of a stellar song are all there, which is exactly why VDP popped over to Warners with the tape when the first version of Holland was tossed back,
and Jack Reiley grudgingly came back to LA to help salvage the album project he'd convinced Carl to so lavishly invest in, finally bringing some kind of narrative coherence to the lyrics.

Another great legendary origin story for a great tune that, if the gods were truly beneficent, would have its own CD showing how it worked its way through the serpentine process of creation, all the false starts, all the variations along the way, until finally culminating with the final version, and, as coda and in keeping with the soulful vocalizing by Brian on the songwriting demo, the epic version of the tune sung by the great Ray Charles.

All of that would be endlessly fascinating, but I'm just glad to have that clear take of the SOS backing track so kindly provided by Alan Boyd lo these many years ago, which is just a fab example of Carl channeling Brian and adding his rock chops to the rolling sea-wave rhythm that embodies the uniquely eccentric soul of his older brother.

Agreed, all good thoughts, HeyJude.

I posted this in another thread, but here's the Joe Thomas interview where he talks about how he and Brian developed ideas for the TWGMTR album:

https://notes.andrewromano.net/joethomasbeachboys

The process with Joe Thomas and Brian here sounds very much like what you describe... Joe kind of rolling with an open-ended, abstract, at times even slightly absurd process, helping to tease out Brian's ideas that might take weeks or months or years to fully develop. Kind of catching these little drops of magic where he can, and going wherever Brian's creative process goes, whatever that ends up looking like.

Mike is -- to put it mildly! -- not known for this kind of empathy and flexibility. And a process that sounds to Brian like "you and Mike are going to work together on Day X when he's not touring, and you'll go into a room at X time and come out with X number of songs" is certainly going to feel high-pressure, unnatural, and about a million miles removed from what Brian's comfortable with.

If it didn't happen organically or to Mike's satisfaction during the 2012 tour, it seems very, *very* unlikely to happen now.

The part of this which is hard to figure out in terms of Mike writing with Brian is that when reading through the Joe Thomas interview, Brian and Mike DID write together, and as others have said, in a way that's more in line with their previous successful collaborations like California Girls and Good Vibrations than Mike's ideal "room with a piano" scenario, or starting something from scratch. I don't know if Mike is/was looking for something to gripe about, or just bitching for the sake of it, but the Thomas interview clearly states that Mike and Brian co-wrote those songs mentioned, in the way they had done before. It goes against some of Mike's claims in subsequent years that he wasn't allowed to write with Brian, or whatever his claims were.

And I've also found through the years that those people writing here and elsewhere on the topic of songwriting and collaboration seem to have no direct experience either collaborating on an original song, working up a song and recording it in the studio, or other hands-on elements of creating original music. It's something Nik Venet even touched on during his testimony in court for the song credits legal case in the early 90's, and how the nature of making songs and making records is a unique process that involves ideas being thrown around sometimes randomly and haphazardly in order to create a finished song. If people have not experienced that process, and only take certain comments from books or interviews at face value thereby idealizing or simplifying the whole process, they miss most of the point.

If what Joe described isn't Brian and Mike working on songs together, i.e. "collaborating" to create finished songs, then someone needs to explain that one to me.

As a tie-in with the documentary, Sweetwater is offering new guitar and bass effects as well as an amp, designed to capture the signature sounds of the Beach Boys' records from the 60's. These were created by some of the best effects creators, and are supposed to give players access to the classic tones heard on BB's productions without having to go broke buying vintage gear. The question of how do I replicate that guitar or bass tone from a given song has been asked often before, and in these products they offer a solution that won't break the bank...and which also has the Beach Boys branding on it too.

I really like the "Punchline" Bass Station "all in one" pedal, as it offers the key components in the old signal chain in one device that you can use direct into the board as an amp simulator...perfect for that Ray or Carole tone providing you use a pick on a Fender bass! The other ones look cool too, that 12-string simulator would be handy to avoid carting a separate 12-string to gigs or sessions.

Check them out, and there's video of the guys recording a Beach Boys inspired original song using this gear on this link as well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hlQuawC6SE

https://www.sweetwater.com/insync/the-beach-boys-studio-effects-collection/

Visual teaser showing the Punchline and the brand logo: