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What's the general consensus about Adrian Baker's contributions to the BB's over the years ? Having had around 3 stints in the touring band, was he any good ? If not, how come they toured with him for so long ? What led to his departure in 2004 ?

super amazingly awesome bad
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNV-eve42M0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4l4aqDeR18

he's much better suited for four seasons songs.

Mmm...that version of Don't Worry Baby is testicle-wrenchingly bad !

Everything you need to know about the man, from 2 mins 25 seconds in:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qVrbpgz37tk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qVrbpgz37tk)

I think every person that ever sang falsetto for the Beach Boys was better than Adrian Baker.  I don't even know if he'd sound good on Four Seasons songs either, as has been suggested. His voice just sucks.  Brian, Bruce, Al, Carl, Matt, Jeff...all better singers than Baker. I will never, ever, ever understand what appealed to Mike et al about this guy. Awful.

I will never understand why Carl let him back into the band after kicking him out when he (Carl) returned

Paul-I've never seen that with The Gorky's. They had a song on their album, Patio, that was about Adrian Baker called Mr Groovy. A massively underrated band and much missed

Baker's contributions to the band were not in anyway meaningful. His falsetto grated. His departure in 2004 was related to his not begin exactly a team player, I've heard.

To give the guy his props, he really does sound like Frankie Valli.  But, I agree he was totally inappropriate on the Brian/Carl parts.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0Dc5ldEISY

He just plain sucked, period. And he wore horrible Hawaiian shirts on stage while doing it. When Matt Jardine replaced him in 2003 it was like we had been delivered out of the desert

Too bad they can't find a singer who sounds like Brian (once did). It's not Foskett.

It's one thing to hit the notes. It's another to have 'the whine'.

Much beloved, as you've seen.

Bingo.

Almost always off-pitch, horribly mutilated vowel sounds from an Englishman trying to sound American, a terrible record producer (as his remakes with Mike show)... basically he was everything the worst Foskett-basher claims Jeff is.

Notably, Mike's band started getting actually *good* once he was replaced with Randell Kirsch (and then got even better when Cowsill switched to drums, replacing Kowalski -- but the difference is that Kowalski had once had some ability. Baker never did.)

That said, I've generally not heard many bad things about him as a person, so maybe that's why he was able to join the band on multiple occasions.

Surprisingly, from the recorded evidence I've heard, Baker sounded the worst during his 1981 stint. The stuff from 1990-91 isn't too bad, just extremely nasaly and whiney. When they brought Matt Jardine on full time, that was definitely much better.

It was a bit off-putting in the late 90's and early 2000's that he was singing "Sherry" at Beach Boys concerts and whatnot. The whole deal a few years back when they "traded" Baker to "Papa Doo Run Run" for Randell Kirsch was kind of weird. It ultimately apparently made Mike's band better, but I remember reading comments and reports from around that time that were kind of weird in terms of the circumstances of all of that.

Frankie Valli doing BBs covers....

I would Much rather have heard the Beach Boys doing Four Seasons covers than Frankie Valli singing Beach Boy covers.

That's for sure.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9BKCF5bwqU&feature=related perfectly fine in this context. Not with the Beach Boys.

Though I quite like his vocal on Hot Fun in the Summertime (I assume its him).

Adrian Baker leaving the BB touring band was the best thing that had happened to the group in some years. Ironic now that some people at the time were complaining,  " another long term member leaves...what a joke!"

The studio recordings that Mike and Adrian Baker did are also truly awful. The worst stuff that Mike has recorded imo (yes, worse than Summer in Paradise).

Having said that, I believe that Adrian Baker did do the vocal arrangements on Cool Head, Warm Heart and some other stuff so maybe there were traces of talent there.

The stuff from Mike's solo album sound good but nothing else Adrian Baker ever touched sounds good. I think one of the worst things about Summer in Paradise is the vocal blend.

If he did "Cool head..." then he probably did "Daybreak over..." as well. He did totally ruin "The warmth of the sun" on "Symphonic sounds". If you compare that awfully exaggerated thing to the original (or another tastefully done rendition - Murry's for example), you'll understand just how awful his work for the Beach Boys was. Again, I can't understand how Carl would let him back again after he throw him out of the band in '82(?).

In what group was this?

Nope. Paul Fauerso, like the credits say.  :)

Good point

Carl.

Baker's definitely in the backing vocal stack, and I *think* he's taking part of the chorus lead. I think it goes:
Carl - We can (unintelligible) when we want to
Baker - and we're out of school
Mike - County fair in the country sun
Carl - And everything is cool
With Baker taking over from Carl on the word 'cool' in the first chorus, and singing the high pitched 'ew' that comes after it in the second chorus.

I'm *guessing* it's Baker on that line because it sounds more like him than it does any of the Beach Boys, but it's not a typical Baker vocal either -- the vowel sounds are ones that have been made by other humans in the past, and he manages to hit the notes, rather than sliding around three or four quite distant ones trying desperately to aim at the right one...

It's Carl singing the falsetto leads, Andrew. He still had it, huh?

Are you sure? It really doesn't sound like him to me on those lines...

It's sounded to me like that since I first heard the album. Tried to raise an argument in the defintive vocals thread but got no reply. To your credit, Carl does not sing those lines in the live recordings there are, so you may be onto something.

This seems right.

http://manvsclown.wordpress.com/2011/07/21/i-still-hate-mike-love/

Put this link up in another thread but it fits as well here - Baker writes a comment, suggesting that Mrs. Love played the leading role in his getting fired. In which case, bless her. Compared to Baker at his best, Jeff at his worst is more or less indistinguishable from Brian in 1964. And Baker's pretty bad doing Four Seasons stuff too. And as I wrote in another thread, he even managed to mess up the BBs before he joined - case in point, the '81 medley.

Are you kidding?

Well, to rephrase - if Brian's 1964 falsetto is located at the sun, Jeff's at his worst is placed somewhere between Venus and Earth, and Baker's at his best is at the place that used to be a planet called Pluto...

I don't want to offend anyone, but I've listened to Baker and Foskett carefully, and my ears tell me that Baker has a trained voice capable of a greater range of styles, pitches, and timbres. Whereas Foskett (bless his heart) is pretty much a one trick pony, and it's not THAT great of a trick.
 
Let me also add that altho neither sounds like Brian very much, (just achieving a falsetto soprano doesn't mean you sound like Brian Wilson) I'd say that Baker is capable of coming closer than Foskett.

Foskett knows a lot of lyrics...plays guitar....gets along with people...is personable...so he's got the gig.

There are lots of professional singers out there who can sing falsetto and could do the job better than Jeff Foskett.

I can't answer the question why a successful touring band of the Beach Boys caliber wouldn't, or couldn't, want somebody capable of hitting the notes regularly (which Jeff doesn't really always do). Maybe they just don't WANT somebody that good.  :smokin

Yes. And he often hit them all on the same syllable...

Jeff's role isn't just about singing. I'll bet it takes much more than musical ability to survive in the Beach Boys.

Now, that I agree with.

I've always been a little suspicious of those Papa Doo Run Run "live" videos... all the vocals sound processed and perhaps even double-tracked.

Not that I'm doubting Adrian can sing like that, here's an actual live video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3cpt3Oucguk and it's actually quite impressive.

He has a trained voice.

Whether that's a plus for the Beach Boys is up to them, not us.

Why would anyone train their voice to sound horrible and sing off-key? That would seem counterproductive to me...

This. Yes.

I have a trained voice too, that doesn't mean I should sing falsetto.  Foskett may not have a trained voice but he sounds infinitely better than Adrian Baker.

i can't stop watching that Don't Worry Baby video.  There is no defense of how hilariously awful that singing is.  I'd love to know how much he has "trained".  I know he sings Sherry really well, but he sounds like he has no control over his voice in the DWB video.

Adrian Baker being so terrible that it's funny in the DWB video and elsewhere doesn't automatically make Jeff Foskett listenable or good. It's not one or the other. Neither sound much like Brian 61-74 in any sense (I know, not many people do), and there are other falsetto singers out there.

A sincere question, though - the "Don't Worry Baby" and "Good Vibrations" videos are from the same night. Does he always sound like this? I've only heard a few other instances of his voice. I really dislike his voice in all of them, but in those few other instances, he's at least on key and isn't all over the place as in those two videos. Could he have been totally drunk or having a particularly awful night? The former wouldn't shock me in the least based solely on how he sounds.

Oh, absolutely. Foskett would only be my third choice for main falsetto vocalist for the Beach Boys, after Scott Totten and Matt Jardine, based on vocal ability and no other considerations. But I've never heard Foskett do a truly incompetent performance.


When I saw him in 2001, he was close to that bad on leads, but sounded more-or-less listenable in the harmony stack. In 2002 he was at least that bad. Those shows were really odd, because there were six good, talented, professional performers on stage (Mike, Bruce, Scott T, Tim Bonhomme, John Cowsill, Chris Farmer) doing their damnedest to give a fantastic performance, and they were hamstrung by Baker and Kowalski who were, at least on those occasions, by far the least competent musicians I have ever seen perform in my life. I've heard recordings from other shows from 2001 where Baker's that bad, too.

Maybe on every performance I *haven't* heard and *wasn't* at, Baker sounded like the reincarnation of Caruso, and reduced grown men to tears with the sheer beauty of his voice, but on the evidence I've actually heard, even *I* could do better (and the best way to describe the quality of my voice is to imagine Ringo Starr doing a bad impression of Mike Love).

Sounds like a cat being kicked in the balls.

 :lol :lol  - - I have a sense of humor. That's good.

But then I can't stand Caruso, so...........

For all the people who call Bruce a cheerleader, I'm surprised the same accusation isn't thrown at Jeff for doing basically the same thing. I know that'll be a bitter pill to swallow for the Brianistas, but they were also never known for consistency.

To be fair, the roles are rather different. For a *lot* of the last 30 years (from the mid-80s through to Cowsill switching to drums), Bruce's keyboard was essentially inaudible, while Foskett is at least sometimes playing a prominent instrumental part. Foskett also has far more of a vocal role in Brian's shows (being essentially co-lead vocalist on many shows) than Bruce does in Mike & Bruce shows.

That's not to say that what Bruce added and adds to the show isn't valuable, just that there's a definite difference between what the two do.

Meanwhile, Bruce has been a legitimate writing, producing, and performing member of the band since 1965. The first thing the guy did was step into the studio to sing on the chorus of "California Girls", while Jeff's first task was to sing backup on a track produced by Boy George or something.

Just sayin', Bruce isn't just some d00d and has made some big contributions to the band.

Absolutely. Not trying to dismiss Bruce's role in the band *in the slightest*. Just that I can see why people don't think he added much to Beach Boys shows in recent decades.

Naw, I know. Just wanted to add... uh, well, what I said. ^_^

Jeff doesn't leave his post at the mic and go to the audience and start conducting them.

1. One need not to diminish Bruce in order to praise Jeff.

2. Singing falsetto is tough. It's a range that can be affected by many factors, age specially.

3. Baker's voice could be many things except beautiful. Listen to the 1981 Long Beach show. He was young by then. Shitty sound system, I know; probably a bad day, Ok. But he was a hired hand and sounded like that.

4. He grew old. Sounded consistently bad. Grew a dislike for Mike and Jackie, apparently. The band improved notoriously after letting him go.

5. Randell, who took his vocal duties, and is not very young either, is IMO the best falsettist of those that are active in BB land.

6. But Jeff in addition go being a good singer and a nice stage persona (without being overwhelming, a difficult task given his job), plays a major role in Brian's life. He's doing a good job. And deserves what he's got.

6. Jeff is a good singer, is a well rounded guy, and plays an important role in Brian's profesional life. That's enough reason to keep him.

Yes he is.  ;D

I like Jeff.  This is the first time I've heard anything negative about him.  I'm surprised that people would talk crap about him.

Not exactly sure how a thread on Adrian Baker has become commentary (yet again) on Jeff. I think Dr. Lenny's comments #'s 6 and 7 are especially on point and I agree with those.
Given how well this tour has gone, how good the group has sounded (in part with Jeff's contributions and with those being mixed in well), IMO its not cool to bash on Jeff if that's what anyone's doing and I do think he's been a very good asset for Brian and his band during the past decade or longer.

It's become quite cool around here to attack Jeff, basically ever since it became uncool to attack Mike Love. The major reasons given are:
1) That he once said something to a fan that could be taken as slightly rude
2) That he doesn't like The Beach Boys Love You
3) That he's (supposedly) a fundamentalist and/or evangelist Christian
4) That sometimes he has seemed a little brusque when talking to Brian, because nobody else has ever been a bit grumpy with someone who's been a colleague for thirty years
5) That he doesn't sing as well as Matt Jardine

Personally, I think there are undoubtedly reasonable criticisms that can be made of him (for example I've heard -- though I may have heard wrong of course -- that he's the one who was principally responsible for Brian going increasingly in a pre-66 hits direction over the last few years on his tours), but that he seems in general to be a decent person and a good singer, and it's far easier not to go looking for reasons to dislike people.

Uncool to attack Mike Love? ......Where? When?
Surely you jest. Knocking Mike Love is the stock and trade of this hateful board.

Weird how in the smaller band configuration you barely hear Bruce play or sing, yet with this gigantic configuration where so many are playing and singing, you can hear his parts with no problem.

I don't think you can lay the credit strictly on Adrian Baker's departure from the Michael and Bruce band for the rapid increase in quality of the shows. Chris Farmer being promoted to band leader had a lot to do with it as well. The other big hurdle was Mike Kowalski. Nothing against the guy, but by 2006 he was dragging the band down. Scott Totten built on what Chris Farmer started when he became the band leader. The five-man Michael and Bruce backup lineup with Scott Totten, John Cowsill, Christian Love, Randell Kirsch, and Tim Bonhomme is about the best that band has ever sounded.

With the greatest respect, can I please ask the moderators to ensure that this thread stays on topic ?  i.e. a discussion about the merits or otherwise of Adrian Baker, not a "let's slag off Jeffery Foskett" platform.

That's next to impossible on this board. Like life, this board goes off on tangents. :)

I hope you don't think that's in response to what I said. I think Bruce's falsetto, while harder for him to produce to due to age, is much better than Jeff's. but I also think Bruce spends way too much time not singing or playing keyboard.

Well, at least we're getting back to discussing falsettos, which may bring it around to Adrian Baker again. One thing about his commenting at the Man vs Clown blog - it makes me wonder if he could some time show up here as an Honored Guest and 'splain himself. A lot there is that needs 'splainin'.

But I wish I hadn't drawn a comparison to Jeff now. I forgot that fundamental rule that if one refers to anything in which he's even tangentially involved, before long the discussion will revolve around him.  I could start a thread, say, about what Brian watches on TV when he's winding down after a show, and sooner or later it will turn out that Jeff is handling the remote because its battery is low and he's sitting closer to the TV, and then it would be all about him and the remote.  Which is why, though it makes sense to mention him in the thread I'm starting up, "What Makes A Beach Boy," I'll let somebody else do that.

Agreed...it would be nice if Mr Baker was to elaborate further on his comments...maybe he's not allowed to for fear of retribution by BRI ?

Hateful board? What a joke. Go checkout the comments section of every youtube video or article before you call the people here hateful. Please.

I don't think normal people are prompt to show up where they are hated.

I just imagined Leonard Cohen saying that exact statement...and it was SO much cooler.

Secondly (this is directed at everyone)...who gives a f*** what a bunch of people on the internet think? Sheesh...lock yourself in a padded room if you can't take the heat.

So for everyone who has the desire to hear Adrian Baker with the Beach Boys in the early 90s, either go to youtube and look for "beach boys japan" or click here for "Surfer girl" and "Don't worry baby":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8C4o6OT2FNQ

So much was wrng then..... ::)

I tell ya... I'd rather take the lead singing than the drumming on DWB. Interesting that those two factors (Baker and Mike K.) would still be a problem well into the 2000s.

Yikes, that's awful. I wonder why they weren't having Carl or Al take Don't Worry Baby.

I though Jeff sounded really great on ¨DWB¨when I heard him in Atlanta. His singing fit the song and was very beautiful.  I mean I don´t think to sing falsetto you have to ¨sound like¨Brian. I think as long as you get the feel and pitch right that´s all that matters. If you compare the 2012 version so a 1964 live version of course it´s different vocally but I don´t fault Jeff. I´m looking forward to hearing him sing it again in Barcelona.

This was a nice combination:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5I2164jnQk

You know, by 1988-9 they switched roles: Carl sang the chorus.

I never got why the high (lead sort of) guitar part was given to Jeff and later to Baker.

See how better Kowalski's drumming for this song was in 1987 as compared to the mid 90s.

Oh god, everyone is sounding off at that show.

Jeff sounds fantastic on this!

My knowledge of the matter is minimal. But, from watching clips alone, I can't see what's so bad about the dude singing
DWB. It's no Foskett at the Kingdome 83, but it aint terrible either. Maybe it's his vocal improvisations near
the end, that it make it so objectionable. I could see that...

It sounds like a cat being swung around the room by it's testicles

Main things are the fact that he is off-key pretty much all the time, that he doesn't stay on one note at a time but wavers between several, that he's singing through his nose, and that he mangles his vowels horribly (because he's British but trying to sing in an American accent).

It just... sounds horrible. I literally think that *anyone* could sing that song better. I certainly can, and my wife tries to ban me from singing around the house because my singing voice is so unpleasant...

On a separate note, I don't think Baker is 'hated' around here. I certainly don't hate him, and I'm one of his more vociferous critics on this board. I think he was utterly unsuited for the job he was doing, but that's the responsibility of the band for repeatedly hiring him. I've never heard anyone say anything particularly bad about him as a person.

dang it, i'm in a library, people are trying to study. don't make me laugh like that again.

In a library? You should be studying, then. Instead of lurking about on a message board.

(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_nAmQLWq7QRI/SKi5iv2unhI/AAAAAAAAB4Y/JL8ll8VOIq4/s400/mcgonagall+irked.jpg)

I am, as always, happy to oblige  ;D

now that's not too bad. Very like Frankie Valli. The production is naff, but he can certainly cover the Four Seasons songs. But keep his criminal hands off the Beach Boys material.

Whenever I have a bad day I watch that notorious video of Adrian Baker singing Don't Worry Baby (in 2002 I think). That or Brian's 1981 Don't Worry Baby.

I don't know if anyone before or since has had a falsetto to match the one Brian had. I think it's pretty much a one of a kind thing.

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I think Smiley Smile's own dmcguire gets much closer than anyone who's ever been officially involved with BW or The BBs...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRszslafbCI

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Wow, that is very close and very very pretty.

thank you for reposting that, hadn't heard it before. That is some excellent vocal quality. Worthy of being in the blend during their heyday I dare say. Hopefully he will provide us with more such covers!

edit: goodness it's like having the vocal multitracks
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLfsijmwacE

I don't think Adrian particularly enjoyed his time in the Beach Boys.

I was on the Beach Boys tour bus in Paris with him, David Marks, Bruce, Mike etc... They were handing out the tour itineracy for their next string of dates, i'll say that he was most unpleased about having to do so many shows. But an all round nice guy! Though I have heard some strange stories..............

No kidding. I'd pay to hear versions of "Sherry She Needs Me", "Guess I'm Dumb" etc. with him tackling the leads just so I can have those few moments of "what if".

Wow, that's amazing... He really sounds a whole lot like the real thing...

Hey all,
I'll put in my two cents here. Falsetto is damn hard to sing in a live setting with a full band--period.  Unless you're in a great venue with a great sounding stage , etc it's gonna be "live" & you, the performer, do the best you can with what you're able to do on that given show.  A loud house mix & crappy concrete box of a stage can make for a rough gig. There are shows I've performed where I can't find the pitch & I have to completely change my monitor mix, in mid show, until I find the sweet spot. Then there are venues that are so well put together & streamlined that performing live & singing is incredibly fun & it sounds fantastic. Comparing anyone to Brian's leads, which were done by the writer of the music, in a controlled environment & double tracked, is a non issue. No one, even Brian, will sound like those recordings (obviously) because a live show is a different beast in every way. Try to take it easy on the guys that are already filling HUGE shoes. I appreciate that you all are passionate about the music & you want it to sound a certain way but, as Carl was fond of saying, "it is what it is".

Thanks for that interesting post Matt. Very noble of you to defend one of your fellow falsettoists.  ;D

For what it's worth, you did a great job with the high parts live and fitted in with the blend better than any of the other pretenders to Brian's throne imo.

One of the highlights of Baker's career was perhaps his recording of a certain song being used in a Bond movie. The fact that it was one of the worst moments in the franchise's history shouldn't detract from that.  :)

Since when did Matt Jardine post here? You do great work, kid ^_^ glad to see you around these parts.

Matt, first of all it's very good of you to defend Baker like that.
But I don't think any of us (or most of us) are under any illusions as to how hard those parts are to sing. or the differences between live and studio. There's still, though, a huge difference between someone who's competent but just having an off-day, and someone who's plain incompetent.
I can well believe that you have days or shows when you find it hard to stay on pitch, but on all the recordings I've heard (I've not had the chance to see you live) you've sounded at worst OK and at best as good as any singer I've heard. The other falsettists who've worked with the various bands -- Jeff Foskett, Randell Kirsch and Scott Totten -- all also do very good jobs. Yes, they sometimes miss notes or whatever -- but no more than any other professional singer (and less than many).

On the other hand I've seen Baker live a few times and heard many recordings of him, both live and studio work, and I can think of *one* example where he actually sounded good -- his "wah wah" section on a cover version of Little GTO he did with Mike Love in the late 90s.

Now it's entirely possible I've just been extraordinarily unlucky in the shows I've seen and the recordings I've heard, but I can honestly say, without exaggeration, that *I* can sing those parts better than Baker did (and whenever I've played in bands I've always been banned from singing backing vocals, even in my own range, let alone in falsetto).

I'm sure he's a wonderful person, and I know that the job of falsetto singer for the Beach Boys is an extraordinarily difficult one, but that's why he should never have been given it. He simply wasn't up to the task. An off-day or a few flat notes is one thing, an off-decade and a flat career entirely another...

I'm actually just stating the facts as I know them, not necessarily defending any one person. I've seen some less than flattering comments not only about Adrian, but Foskett & myself as well.  As a lead & backing vocalist for the band for roughly 8 years, I definately have witnessed some painful performances by others & have taken part in painful performances myself. Just a fact of life onstage. I will say that the BB bands going out nowadays benefit greatly from state-of-the-art in-ear monitors, which definately help the vocalists to not have to over-sing (over loud wedges, guitar amps, drums, etc). There's no reason for anyone to sound bad with that kind of onstage control. Pretty cool.

Fair enough -- and anyone making unflattering comments about you or Foskett is being very unfair. I agree that everyone does the occasional bad performance, but I've never yet heard one from you and only rarely from Foskett.

Matt, your parts on Warmth Of The Sun were wonderful.

Well said, JanBerryFarm. I too think Adrian sings better than Jeff. Liked his falsetto in "Daybreak Over the Ocean" & the Four Seasons songs. As for the 2nd sentiment, I agree, neither of them sounds like Brian (no one can actually, at least not exactly like Brian, there will still be a minor difference) & agree that Baker is better Brian soundalike than Jeff. F.ex., I can well imagine Adrian sing "Mother May" & "Baker Man".

I don't think that's a key reason for most people and I can't actually recall him saying nasty things about The Beach Boys.

I think the truth is more simple. The touring band is much better now than when he was a part of it.

No, people dislike him because he sings horribly.  I know nothing of any inter-band politics in Mike's band, and nor do I want to. What I do know is that he sang horribly at the shows where I saw him perform, and on all the recordings I've heard.
When people state their reasons, it's polite to take them at their word, and incredibly rude to impute other motives without evidence. If people say they don't like the way Adrian Baker sounds, it's because they don't like the way he sounds.

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Brian at any age, Jeff Foskett and Adrian Baker sound absolutely nothing like one another. Crack smokin' donkeys from outer space.

Ever heard his recording of "Happy Birthday Brian Wilson"?  I thought he did a real bang-up job on that one.