Al Jardine Not Interested In A One-Off Beach Boys Reunion

[the captain]

Adam, while this isn't really a fair question, I'll try it anyway. You, at least, have worked with Al in a musical sense and have a better sense of the man than most of us here.

While he says he isn't interested in a one-off or temporary reunion, do you truly think if he were offered a place in, say, a concert or short series of concerts with accompanying TV show, DVD, album and all the trappings, that he'd stand on principle and say no?

And if the real answer is "I have absolutely no idea," that is fair.

[Aegir]

I'm with Jon and Ed on this. I think the magic would never be the same as it was back then. Without Carl and Dennis it just wouldn't FEEL right. No matter how they try to "include" Denny and Carl in the "reunion", it just will never be magical again. Too much water has passed under the bridge.

I just don't understand this viewpoint. Wouldn't seeing the surviving Beach Boys together amount to more than seeing the surviving Beach Boys separately?

[the captain]

For her, obviously not. If everyone brings his or her own pre-determined ideas into it (which obviously everyone does), then some people would see a reunion as a sad, money-grabbing gimmick; others as a glorious return to form; others as a heartfelt reconciliation; et cetera ad nauseum. The facts are a part of the situation, but the interpretations of any such even and feelings surrounding one would be hugely diverse. The more I think about marketing the Beach Boys, the more I think that would be an enormous problem. There isn't a Beach Boys.

[Sheriff John Stone]

Wouldn't seeing the surviving Beach Boys together amount to more than seeing the surviving Beach Boys separately?

THAT has always been THE question for me. If there was ever a "the whole is greater than the parts" -or something like that - it's the Beach Boys, especially now.

[DonnaK]

For her, obviously not. If everyone brings his or her own pre-determined ideas into it (which obviously everyone does), then some people would see a reunion as a sad, money-grabbing gimmick; others as a glorious return to form; others as a heartfelt reconciliation; et cetera ad nauseum. The facts are a part of the situation, but the interpretations of any such even and feelings surrounding one would be hugely diverse. The more I think about marketing the Beach Boys, the more I think that would be an enormous problem. There isn't a Beach Boys.

Didn't Dennis say that Brian IS the Beach Boys???

[the captain]

Didn't Dennis say that Brian IS the Beach Boys???

Yes. But to relate that to my point, that doesn't necessarily mean anything to anyone else. Dennis may have felt that way, but no doubt somebody at that same time thought Dennis himself was the Beach Boys. Or Carl. Or Mike. Or surfing. Or harmonies. Or orchestral instruments in a pop band's songs. Or cars. Or whatever. Dennis's feelings about the band don't really matter to a huge number of people, just like John Doe's don't to a different huge number of people.

[Dove Nested Towers]

Brian is probably the main determining factor. If he can't feel or be persuaded to feel that sharing a stage with Mike (and Bruce) will be as comfortable or nearly as relaxed as
the rooftop commemoration ceremony, then he will not participate, and one would hope that Melinda and others would back him up on it and not pressure him into it.

If he feels anxiety, apprehension, or generally disgusted at the prospect of sharing a stage with Mike once more, he shouldn't do it. Performing with them is a lot different than being friendly and having some of their old cameraderie during a publicity event.

On the other hand, one could argue that it would be good for him to face his fears (or
maybe it's just distaste), and get up on the stage with them again on his terms, kind of like it was a triumph to face his Smile baggage and do BWPS.

This is not to discount Al's reservations as a determining factor, which are absolutely legitimate and sincere, and I add that Brian has more than earned the right to never again do anything he doesn't want to do, to please other people.

It could be done very classily and well, but if something is too forced, maybe there's a reason that it shouldn't happen. Hard to say. Only they know their feelings, and as Adam said, that's what counts, not any sense of obligation to the fans.

Just thinking out loud on a controversial subject (in public, yikes!)

[JR]

Well that's every ex memeber not interested in a reunion now

I knew I wasn't hearing things when he said "No way" at Mayfest!!!!! I'm with Al here too!!!! Without Dennis and Carl, there IS no reunion.......

I will not attend any type of scham like this.

I totally agree. As far as I'm concerned The Beach Boys as a live entity, touring and recording, and the possibility of ever having a reunion ceased when Denny died. I always thought of the group that toured after that as Carl Wilson & his backup band with occasional appearances by Brian Wilson. I just honestly don't see how any group can legitimately be called the Beach Boys without all three Wilsons. I do think if Brian, Al, David, Carl B, Justyn, Blondie, & Ricky all got together with the old backup band it would definitely be something special, even if it was only for one night. Something to "celebrate" 50 years, rather than do something solely for a buck and call it a reunion. As unfortunate as it may be, I'm afraid the other two would bring an "undesired element" and bad vibrations to an event like that, and who would want to get sued for the financial losses suffered by Mike for taking time away from his never ending tour anyway?

I'm sorry, but that's pathetic, and it's taking every fiber of my being to not call you the same. Ever since Denny died? Seriously? Come on.  The guy was hardly even around the last few years he was alive. Carl Wilson and his backup band? Please. What a ridiculous, biased, insane knock on the other band members. How many hits did Carl co-write? None? And that's coming from a guy whose favorite Beach Boy is Carl. This is so ridiculous, even for an internet message board. How much of a Brianista are you? Go back over to the cult board where you belong. Without all three Wilsons. Yeah, maybe if one didn't quit and the other managed to sober up, you'd have something.

JR....EXCUSE ME??

Believe me, you're excused.

[Awesoman]

Who exactly would be their target audience???

Anybody who might like the Beach Boys' music.

Those PBS (or A&E, or MTV Classic, or National TV) specials are seen by a lot of people, especially when they are repeated over and over. We all agree that the Beach Boys' music is infectious and will hook you - whether you want to be hooked or not. All it would take is for some of those classic Brian songs to be seen and heard on TV and it will mushroom. That's why I think Capitol would be very interested.

This could be the next The Last Waltz!

Yes, the Beach Boys music is catchy enough that Mike and Bruce can go out on the road with a bunch of no-namers and call it the Beach Boys.  And the average fan probably wouldn't notice the difference.  Which means it's unlikely that a more authentic representation of the group (one with Brian, Al and Dave included) would warrant a dramatic increase of interest to the most average of fans.

[donald]

  On the other hand, the last BB show I attended at an art center was heavily attended by geritol set.   

ouch... 

Maybe I should say those who remember watching Larry Welk's Geritol sponsored songfest.   Hey, do they still sell Geritol?    Maybe I should try some.     What the heck was in that stuff anyway?   Oh yeah...."twice the iron in a pound of calf liver, offers relief from iron poor tired blood"....but there must have been a "secret" ingredient?   ....maybe alcohol and codeine?

[lance]

If Jardine's point is that without some rehearsal and a tour to sharpen things up, the quality wouldn't be good, he has a point. I'd rather a reunion didn't happen(actually, I'm not sure if I care much, anyway,unless there's a studio album) then another Beach Boys Twenty-fifth Anniversary special with that mentally handicapped person Patrick Duffy.

[Compost]

Well that's every ex memeber not interested in a reunion now

I knew I wasn't hearing things when he said "No way" at Mayfest!!!!! I'm with Al here too!!!! Without Dennis and Carl, there IS no reunion.......

I will not attend any type of scham like this.

I totally agree. As far as I'm concerned The Beach Boys as a live entity, touring and recording, and the possibility of ever having a reunion ceased when Denny died. I always thought of the group that toured after that as Carl Wilson & his backup band with occasional appearances by Brian Wilson. I just honestly don't see how any group can legitimately be called the Beach Boys without all three Wilsons. I do think if Brian, Al, David, Carl B, Justyn, Blondie, & Ricky all got together with the old backup band it would definitely be something special, even if it was only for one night. Something to "celebrate" 50 years, rather than do something solely for a buck and call it a reunion. As unfortunate as it may be, I'm afraid the other two would bring an "undesired element" and bad vibrations to an event like that, and who would want to get sued for the financial losses suffered by Mike for taking time away from his never ending tour anyway?

I'm sorry, but that's pathetic, and it's taking every fiber of my being to not call you the same. Ever since Denny died? Seriously? Come on.  The guy was hardly even around the last few years he was alive. Carl Wilson and his backup band? Please. What a ridiculous, biased, insane knock on the other band members. How many hits did Carl co-write? None? And that's coming from a guy whose favorite Beach Boy is Carl. This is so ridiculous, even for an internet message board. How much of a Brianista are you? Go back over to the cult board where you belong. Without all three Wilsons. Yeah, maybe if one didn't quit and the other managed to sober up, you'd have something.

JR....EXCUSE ME??

Believe me, you're excused.

Wow, douchebag much?

[JR]

Well that's every ex memeber not interested in a reunion now

I knew I wasn't hearing things when he said "No way" at Mayfest!!!!! I'm with Al here too!!!! Without Dennis and Carl, there IS no reunion.......

I will not attend any type of scham like this.

I totally agree. As far as I'm concerned The Beach Boys as a live entity, touring and recording, and the possibility of ever having a reunion ceased when Denny died. I always thought of the group that toured after that as Carl Wilson & his backup band with occasional appearances by Brian Wilson. I just honestly don't see how any group can legitimately be called the Beach Boys without all three Wilsons. I do think if Brian, Al, David, Carl B, Justyn, Blondie, & Ricky all got together with the old backup band it would definitely be something special, even if it was only for one night. Something to "celebrate" 50 years, rather than do something solely for a buck and call it a reunion. As unfortunate as it may be, I'm afraid the other two would bring an "undesired element" and bad vibrations to an event like that, and who would want to get sued for the financial losses suffered by Mike for taking time away from his never ending tour anyway?

I'm sorry, but that's pathetic, and it's taking every fiber of my being to not call you the same. Ever since Denny died? Seriously? Come on.  The guy was hardly even around the last few years he was alive. Carl Wilson and his backup band? Please. What a ridiculous, biased, insane knock on the other band members. How many hits did Carl co-write? None? And that's coming from a guy whose favorite Beach Boy is Carl. This is so ridiculous, even for an internet message board. How much of a Brianista are you? Go back over to the cult board where you belong. Without all three Wilsons. Yeah, maybe if one didn't quit and the other managed to sober up, you'd have something.

JR....EXCUSE ME??

Believe me, you're excused.

Wow, douchebag much?

I play to the audience I'm given.

[Sheriff John Stone]

Who exactly would be their target audience???

Anybody who might like the Beach Boys' music.

Those PBS (or A&E, or MTV Classic, or National TV) specials are seen by a lot of people, especially when they are repeated over and over. We all agree that the Beach Boys' music is infectious and will hook you - whether you want to be hooked or not. All it would take is for some of those classic Brian songs to be seen and heard on TV and it will mushroom. That's why I think Capitol would be very interested.

This could be the next The Last Waltz!

Yes, the Beach Boys music is catchy enough that Mike and Bruce can go out on the road with a bunch of no-namers and call it the Beach Boys.  And the average fan probably wouldn't notice the difference.  Which means it's unlikely that a more authentic representation of the group (one with Brian, Al and Dave included) would warrant a dramatic increase of interest to the most average of fans.

That's not the point. The audience that a televised reunion concert would attract has not as much to do with the make-up of the band as the performance of the "catchy" music. Mike Love has stated over and over that the MUSIC is the star of the show, not those "no-namers" (like Brian's band?) that you refer to.

Yes, a 50th Anniversary reunion concert/album/documentary/tour(?) is a convenient excuse to get the guys back together again, but, if that's the best way to get it done - assuming something positive comes out of it - then I say go for it.

And, I'll repeat, please don't underestimate the power of those songs. Just a quick personal analogy....I knew about The Band, knew a couple of their songs, but that was about it; didn't even own a CD by The Band. Then, one night, I caught The Last Waltz on TV for the first time. One of the songs performed was "Up On Cripple Creek"; I watched and listened and was quite pleased with what I heard. That catchy chorus, "Up on Cripple Creek she sends me, if I spring a leak she mends me, I don't have to speak she defends me, a drunkard's dream if I ever did see one...." I couldn't get it out of my head. I wanted to hear it again. And I eventually did; The Last Waltz was repeated shortly thereafter. And guess what, then I heard "The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down". You get the picture. Now I'm a fan of The Band....That's what would happen with a Beach Boys' concert shown and repeated on TV, especially on PBS. And, by the way, I didn't necessarily know the members of The Band when I caught The Last Waltz for the first time. But, I do now....

[donald]

SJS, that movie was the first waltz with the band for a whole new audience.  A bit of irony there.  And the best rock movie to date at the time.
They were truly their best live.

[Awesoman]

Who exactly would be their target audience???

Anybody who might like the Beach Boys' music.

Those PBS (or A&E, or MTV Classic, or National TV) specials are seen by a lot of people, especially when they are repeated over and over. We all agree that the Beach Boys' music is infectious and will hook you - whether you want to be hooked or not. All it would take is for some of those classic Brian songs to be seen and heard on TV and it will mushroom. That's why I think Capitol would be very interested.

This could be the next The Last Waltz!

Yes, the Beach Boys music is catchy enough that Mike and Bruce can go out on the road with a bunch of no-namers and call it the Beach Boys.  And the average fan probably wouldn't notice the difference.  Which means it's unlikely that a more authentic representation of the group (one with Brian, Al and Dave included) would warrant a dramatic increase of interest to the most average of fans.

That's not the point. The audience that a televised reunion concert would attract has not as much to do with the make-up of the band as the performance of the "catchy" music. Mike Love has stated over and over that the MUSIC is the star of the show, not those "no-namers" (like Brian's band?) that you refer to.

Brian Wilson's group is not calling themselves "The Beach Boys".  Not a valid comparison.

[Awesoman]

SJS, that movie was the first waltz with the band for a whole new audience.  A bit of irony there.  And the best rock movie to date at the time.
They were truly their best live.

Even better than the all-star 70's Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band??  :-)

[JR]

Who exactly would be their target audience???

Anybody who might like the Beach Boys' music.

Those PBS (or A&E, or MTV Classic, or National TV) specials are seen by a lot of people, especially when they are repeated over and over. We all agree that the Beach Boys' music is infectious and will hook you - whether you want to be hooked or not. All it would take is for some of those classic Brian songs to be seen and heard on TV and it will mushroom. That's why I think Capitol would be very interested.

This could be the next The Last Waltz!

Yes, the Beach Boys music is catchy enough that Mike and Bruce can go out on the road with a bunch of no-namers and call it the Beach Boys.  And the average fan probably wouldn't notice the difference.  Which means it's unlikely that a more authentic representation of the group (one with Brian, Al and Dave included) would warrant a dramatic increase of interest to the most average of fans.

That's not the point. The audience that a televised reunion concert would attract has not as much to do with the make-up of the band as the performance of the "catchy" music. Mike Love has stated over and over that the MUSIC is the star of the show, not those "no-namers" (like Brian's band?) that you refer to.

Brian Wilson's group is not calling themselves "The Beach Boys".  Not a valid comparison.

Right...except that he's playing mostly Beach Boys music.  People talk about how Brian's had this great solo career...yet 90% of the stuff he plays is Beach Boys music.  So in a way, it's a similar misleading element.  I know people who went to Hampton Beach and saw him play the hits last year and were actually really disappointed; they were hoping for/expecting more than a new song or two.  So Mike calls his band the Beach Boys, even though there are only two Beach Boys, while Brian bills himself as a solo artist--and plays mostly Beach Boys music.  Either way, Al's right that neither way is the way it really should be.  However, I've grown to second-guess myself when saying Carl's passing caused all this.  Remember, he wasn't always the most supportive of Brian's efforts towards the end, and killed at least two projects the others were all in for. So right or wrong, I guess we were always headed this way.

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

Man, I kinda wish now that this topic would be put to rest!

Do Paul and Ringo need to reunite as "The Beatles"??

I dare say having both Carl and Dennis gone is just as bad as John and George being gone, so one could argue, there's not much point!

Yes, I know Brian, Brian, Brian!!! He created and did everything! But in regards to all that, his good work is happily in it's place in the pop music pantheon with healthy reissues n all. He has nothing to prove....

BUT, as a performing unit, Brian is hardly the whole enchilada, and was not even there for most of the Beach Boys career as amazing performers, therefore, no Carl, no Dennis is truely a bummer.

I guess this is why I think just getting Mike, Bruce, Al, and Brian around a piano to sing songs and tell stories would be the best thing.

[adamghost]

Adam, while this isn't really a fair question, I'll try it anyway. You, at least, have worked with Al in a musical sense and have a better sense of the man than most of us here.

While he says he isn't interested in a one-off or temporary reunion, do you truly think if he were offered a place in, say, a concert or short series of concerts with accompanying TV show, DVD, album and all the trappings, that he'd stand on principle and say no?

And if the real answer is "I have absolutely no idea," that is fair.

I do, in fact, have absolutely no idea.  I definitely never broached the question with him; I would have considered it a professional lapse to do so.  I just don't know the man that well.

What I can tell you just from observation is he's a man that takes great pride in having been a part of the Beach Boys' accomplishments and my sense is that he's sensitive to being sidelined or diminished, as I think anyone would be.  If I would have guessed I would have thought he'd have been open to a Beach Boys reunion, but not based on special knowledge I have.  I have to say that I was a little surprised (pleasantly) as to the reasons that he gave for not wanting to do it.  I think what he has to say about rehearsing is spot on.  If I thought the BBs were going to put that kind of effort into it I'd be way more enthusiastic about the prospect of a reunion -- witness how brilliant they were on the (Al-instigated, so I understand) 1993 unplugged tour.

The thing is, once you're that old and you've done it for so long, I would imagine the only reason to do something like that is to really have the desire to go in and do a f**king awesome job, because it's a lot of work for a bunch of old guys who are going to make the same amount of money regardless.  And I say that not as a criticism, because I can totally understand that attitude.  At a certain point it really does become a job, a cushy one that you don't want to put a lot of effort into.  Meaning no criticism of Bruce, but it's always been hard for me to understand how a musician as brilliant as he is and was once a vital part of the stage band can just doodle on a keyboard that doesn't even go through the mains.  But if it is, as he himself has said, just a traveling money machine, a very easy way to fund other things that you're interested in, then it's an understandable attitude, even if it would bore the crap out of me personally.

So having said that, I give Al a lot of kudos for saying, whatever his motivation, "if we're going to do this let's go and do it right."  I don't think that given the practicalities and personalities involved, that it's likely to happen, but I think the attitude is right on.

[adamghost]

One other thing that occurs to me, personally, is how much fun it was working up those songs for the Carl Wilson Foundation with Al and Dave, keeping in mind that we mostly did new songs with them.  We came in with the attitude that we were going to know our parts and really give them a first-class backing job, and I'd like to think that having musicians with that attitude, and the time to rehearse and get it right, was a little inspiring.  It was to me.  I like the fact that we went up and did "A Postcard From California," a song that no one had ever heard, with the amount of respect and precision that we would have given "Help Me Rhonda," or some such.

It really did have a little of that kids in a garage vibe to me, and I would think that's a good thing to get back to if you've been doing it on the arena level for a long time.  Not going out and playing the hits necessarily, but sitting down and trying stuff out and being into the joy of creating and playing together.  I hear about the stuff Al and Dave are doing together now and I think, yeah, now that could be pretty cool, if it's got that kind of vibe.  Because the joy of that feeling never fades, no matter how old you get...but having to deal with the business and personal end of being in a mega-successful band can separate you from that feeling really easily.

[TdHabib]

Do Paul and Ringo need to reunite as "The Beatles"??
I dare say having both Carl and Dennis gone is just as bad as John and George being gone, so one could argue, there's not much point!

I've had a similar opinion for several years...and every time I bring it up someone shoots it down...so I guess I'm saying good luck to you!

[Awesoman]

Who exactly would be their target audience???

Anybody who might like the Beach Boys' music.

Those PBS (or A&E, or MTV Classic, or National TV) specials are seen by a lot of people, especially when they are repeated over and over. We all agree that the Beach Boys' music is infectious and will hook you - whether you want to be hooked or not. All it would take is for some of those classic Brian songs to be seen and heard on TV and it will mushroom. That's why I think Capitol would be very interested.

This could be the next The Last Waltz!

Yes, the Beach Boys music is catchy enough that Mike and Bruce can go out on the road with a bunch of no-namers and call it the Beach Boys.  And the average fan probably wouldn't notice the difference.  Which means it's unlikely that a more authentic representation of the group (one with Brian, Al and Dave included) would warrant a dramatic increase of interest to the most average of fans.

That's not the point. The audience that a televised reunion concert would attract has not as much to do with the make-up of the band as the performance of the "catchy" music. Mike Love has stated over and over that the MUSIC is the star of the show, not those "no-namers" (like Brian's band?) that you refer to.

Brian Wilson's group is not calling themselves "The Beach Boys".  Not a valid comparison.

Right...except that he's playing mostly Beach Boys music.  People talk about how Brian's had this great solo career...yet 90% of the stuff he plays is Beach Boys music.  So in a way, it's a similar misleading element.  I know people who went to Hampton Beach and saw him play the hits last year and were actually really disappointed; they were hoping for/expecting more than a new song or two.  So Mike calls his band the Beach Boys, even though there are only two Beach Boys, while Brian bills himself as a solo artist--and plays mostly Beach Boys music.  Either way, Al's right that neither way is the way it really should be.  However, I've grown to second-guess myself when saying Carl's passing caused all this.  Remember, he wasn't always the most supportive of Brian's efforts towards the end, and killed at least two projects the others were all in for. So right or wrong, I guess we were always headed this way.

The fact that Brian Wilson plays Beach Boys songs is entirely irrelevant.  Pretty much any artist formally in a band that starts a solo career will play songs from that band.  Paul McCartney, Don Henley, Sting, John Fogerty, etc.  Again, legally speaking, there is *nothing* misleading about Brian Wilson touring as himself. 

[Awesoman]

Do Paul and Ringo need to reunite as "The Beatles"??
I dare say having both Carl and Dennis gone is just as bad as John and George being gone, so one could argue, there's not much point!

I've had a similar opinion for several years...and every time I bring it up someone shoots it down...so I guess I'm saying good luck to you!

I've had that opinion myself.  Especially with Carl gone. 

[Ed Roach]

And, I'll repeat, please don't underestimate the power of those songs. Just a quick personal analogy....I knew about The Band, knew a couple of their songs, but that was about it; didn't even own a CD by The Band. Then, one night, I caught The Last Waltz on TV for the first time. One of the songs performed was "Up On Cripple Creek"; I watched and listened and was quite pleased with what I heard. That catchy chorus, "Up on Cripple Creek she sends me, if I spring a leak she mends me, I don't have to speak she defends me, a drunkard's dream if I ever did see one...." I couldn't get it out of my head. I wanted to hear it again. And I eventually did; The Last Waltz was repeated shortly thereafter. And guess what, then I heard "The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down". You get the picture. Now I'm a fan of The Band....That's what would happen with a Beach Boys' concert shown and repeated on TV, especially on PBS. And, by the way, I didn't necessarily know the members of The Band when I caught The Last Waltz for the first time. But, I do now....

You know, I said something in a similar vein yesterday, on another thread:

"And some of the stuff from the Blondie/Ricky years is well worth a release.  There are some smokin' live recordings of "Wild Honey" and "River Song" sung by Blondie that deserve to be heard.  As well as hearing "Jumpin' Jack Flash" would really be...a gas!"

Let some of those tracks pop up on you tube, w/video, and watch the interest it could ignite in reminding people what a great live band they were at one time!  To say nothing of what it would do in blowing away their newer fans, and the fans that could still be created... 

Your "quick analogy" has sparked a memory of my experience of getting turned on to The Band, and if you'll pardon my musing, I'll try to be as brief:  somehow I'd drifted away from Dylan around the time of "Self Portrait", and wasn't impressed when I first heard "Music from Big Pink".  That changed while touring with The Boys in the spring of '72...  After their Carnegie Hall gigs, Dennis got it in him to do the rest of the tour in a giant motor home, and it created a buzz of others wanting to do it, too.  Carl decided to drive with us, and Al got another one, for he & Bobby & Carlie - probably Billy, too.
There's lots of great stories, (& photos) from that trip, but one of my favorites was Carl running into this little general store, and practically buying out the guys 8track tapes!  Yet somehow, practically the only thing that ever played was "Rag Mama Rag"!  I can picture it as if it was yesterday, the 2 of them singing their asses off to that song over & over, with Carl driving that thing at 80 or 90 miles an hour, while Dennis was whipping up "Golden Cadillacs" in a blender...  I've loved The Band ever since - and loved this band even more!  (By the way, I've still got the 8tracks from that trip.)