I'm curious what the doc soundtrack will consist of.  Anyone have an inkling of a tracklist?

Considering they haven't announced anything and the doc is a week away, I would think the most likely scenario is just what essentially amounts to a Spotify playlist. I don't anticipate new/unreleased tracks. I would assume some shorter variation of "Sounds of Summer."

I don’t think Mike was/is manufacturing a grievance concerning writing with Brian. I just think it’s a bit of a stand-in or beating around the bush about the more specific grievance. And I think that grievance was, to put it bluntly, Joe Thomas. (And also Melinda, but I think the “writing alone with Brian” complaints pertain much less to her and more to Joe).

My guess is that what Mike is really referring to when lamenting not writing with Brian on the reunion album is that there are no “Wilson/Love” collaborations.

“Here Mike, Brian and Joe wrote 57 songs together and secured an album deal, now here’s a song you can add some lyrics to” is not the same as Brian asking Mike to help finish “California Girls”, “Good Vibrations”, etc. I suspect tracks like “Isn’t It Time” and “Spring Vacation”, etc. were not devoid of lyrics before being handed off to Mike.

So while this isn’t completely dissimilar to some of the writing scenarios back in the 60s for Brian and Mike, it’s probably Mike filling in lyrical gaps more than in the 60s, and he’s not working with songs Brian brought on his own. In the case of “Isn’t It Time”, Mike is adding to a song that already has *four* other writers on it.

And, I think what Mike is also referring to is Joe Thomas. I think it slowly irked him more and more that Joe was a co-writer on almost everything on the album. I think it irked him professionally/creatively, and also he probably also realized that Joe Thomas was collecting more songwriting royalties off the album than he (Mike) was.

I suspect, much like the project as a whole, Mike signed on at a point where he didn’t have this huge animus towards Thomas. I’m not sure precisely how that animus developed, because it seemed to have occurred literally *during* the tour. I don’t know if Mike just had slight misgivings about having Joe so heavily involved, and those misgivings just ballooned during the tour, or if there was some sort of inciting event that occurred that soured him.

I think the “writing alone with Brian” had less to do with the writing method or precise scenario, and more to do with being alone. Mike has gone on record that he has usually had “mixed feelings” about Brian working with other writers.

I think there had to be some cognitive dissonance though in getting involved in the reunion, because it was Joe Thomas that was a huge part in making it all happen. He helped secure a record deal. He helped secure the money and infrastructure to launch the reunion tour. And he was involved in the other ancillary products (two DVDs, the live album).

I think Joe Thomas teed up this big reunion project, with an album deal and a tour with advances ready to go, and Mike couldn’t turn it down. I suspect on some level Mike wanted to, or felt they should do, some sort of anniversary reunion project. As we’ve seen in interviews, his initial ideas in the years leading up to the 50th tended to involve one or maybe two shows taped for TV, not a 73-date world tour, a new studio album, two DVDs, and a live album.

I think Mike had to make a lot of concessions to do the reunion, a lot of loosening his grip on being in charge of everything, and he should be (and WAS) commended for that. But I think there was probably no way that sort of “power shift’ (whether we’re talking from Mike to Brian’s “camp”, or specifically Melinda, or specifically Joe Thomas, or all of the above) was sustainable. Mike clearly likes to do his job on his own terms. Is he willing to be passive and let someone else do stuff, is he willing to defer? Sure, but on his terms and by his choice. I think the reunion project was obviously a choice they all made in terms of getting involved, but once they signed on, Mike found himself having someone else to answer to in doing some elements of his job, and I don’t think Mike wants for any prolonged period of time to be *told* what to do. Again, I think he’s fine if Brian in the studio tells him to sing a vocal track again. But he doesn’t like the larger business machine telling him that they will placate him and let him add some lyrics to a song Brian, Joe, and two other guys wrote X number of years ago.

I’m not justifying or criticizing any of this really, it’s just how it was/is, as best as I can tell. I think Mike didn’t want to be the third wheel in a Brian/Joe/Mike “team”, but that wasn’t something he could bemoan for most of the reunion “year”, because Joe Thomas was a big part of making all of that happen. 

I think the reunion was so good on multiple levels, Mike should have sucked it up in order to keep it going. Would it have also been nice if Brian’s side did some things to, well, essentially placate Mike? Sure, especially if that could have helped the reunion continue. It wouldn’t have been the worst thing in the world to, after seeing Mike start to complain *during the tour* that he hadn’t had a chance to “write with Brian” the way he wanted (which meant “not with Joe”), Brian and his camp went to Mike and said “Look, let’s do another album, and we’ll set aside the extra Brian/Joe songs for now, or we’ll use some of those but we’ll stop and take more time and see if we can do some true Brian/Mike collabs.” And hey, even though their initial idea of a “rock and roll covers” album would not be my first choice, if offering to do *that* could have also helped keep the reunion going, I’d be all for that too. I’m not saying offering any of that would have saved the reunion. I think Mike just wanted to go back to being his own boss. But one can’t help but wonder if a ton of smoothing stuff over and extra compromises and negotiations could have allowed the reunion one or two more sort of “cycles”, to maybe get one or two more albums out of it, and another big world tour. An album and tour in summer/fall 2013, and then maybe another year of touring, and maybe a final album (if they had done the covers album first), and they could have wrapped this thing up nicely and nobody would feel like it ended prematurely.

But obviously, in 2024, we might as well be talking about the Monterey Pop Festival.

Thanks, Angela...man, those lyrics are (literally) all over the map...clearly SOS was a tune that Brian had worked on before, maybe as a feel, and might have had 2-3 different sets of lyrics from Ray Kennedy and Tandyn Almer from when they were banging it out while "slightly altered" at Danny Hutton's house...at this point it looks like VDP gets into the act and the smorgasbord of lyrics will take another spin around the buffet table...but the rudiments of a stellar song are all there, which is exactly why VDP popped over to Warners with the tape when the first version of Holland was tossed back,
and Jack Reiley grudgingly came back to LA to help salvage the album project he'd convinced Carl to so lavishly invest in, finally bringing some kind of narrative coherence to the lyrics.

Another great legendary origin story for a great tune that, if the gods were truly beneficent, would have its own CD showing how it worked its way through the serpentine process of creation, all the false starts, all the variations along the way, until finally culminating with the final version, and, as coda and in keeping with the soulful vocalizing by Brian on the songwriting demo, the epic version of the tune sung by the great Ray Charles.

All of that would be endlessly fascinating, but I'm just glad to have that clear take of the SOS backing track so kindly provided by Alan Boyd lo these many years ago, which is just a fab example of Carl channeling Brian and adding his rock chops to the rolling sea-wave rhythm that embodies the uniquely eccentric soul of his older brother.

Regarding the lyrics on the demo, Howie Edelson mentioned in one of his "Sail on Sailor" podcast interviews that he has spoken to Ed Roach, and Ed had been at the house/studio the previous day working with a band from New York, and they deduced that some of the lyrics on the demo recorded the next day had been influenced by that, topically.

I also understand that some.. er.. disagreement over Ambha Love possibly singing this contributed to the ending of the C50.

I don't think that caused anything to do with the 50th reunion ending. It was more a symptom of things than a cause. 

Maybe Mike forgot to bring along some cans of Kokomojito.

Here's the direct YouTube link to this little video clip:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_74NLBJDMc&t=51s


Al mentioned in a Q&A on one of his recent cruise gigs that the filmmakers didn't even want them to do any playing/singing, and he had to convince them to let him have a guitar on hand just in case they might want to sing together. Subsequently, several have mentioned that they sang a few songs together during this meet-up.

But it might be worth pondering the question, what if the filmmakers kept to their original idea of just making this essentially a "photo op" situation in the documentary? Wouldn't it be kind of nuts if they didn't even include any of the songs from that day in the final documentary? It would be nuts.....right?

I've never had a problem with the idea of Mike trying to write again with Brian.

I think over the years Mike would seem to sometimes be more into *talking* about it than actually trying to do it.

But as a concept, how could anybody not at least wonder what they could come up with if they tried?

The problem is that this became a sort of sticking point or talking point for Mike surrounding the aftermath of the reunion project, and I think most fans tend to feel the way I do, which is that Mike and Brian collaborating is a great idea, but it shouldn't be what doing an album or a tour is contingent on. And, to be fair, I don't think it ever was. I don't think Mike not getting to write with Brian was *the* reason the reunion fell apart. That's a much more complicated story of course.

As for *now*, I think that's a big open question with not a lot of potential affirmative outcomes. As best as I can tell, Brian is probably in a state where he can still "do" music. What exactly that might entail, I don't think we know. It's been well documented that even people with degenerative/cognitive issues can continue to sing and play to a surprisingly high standard. We've seen this with examples like Glen Campbell and Tony Bennett. But that seemed to, as far as I can tell, entail performing old "standards" that were very ingrained/etched into their musical memory. So with Brian, if I had to guess, I think for quite some time he'll probably be able to remember and sing and play tons of songs when he's having a good day. But can he (or does he want to) write new songs, or even workshop incomplete or old compositions? I don't know. Maybe Brian doesn't know.

What I do know is that, even going back over the last 25+ years, Brian has needed a sympathetic, empathetic writing partner that knows how to work with Brian, who knows how to capture and take note of what he puts down. It sometimes might entail, as Joe Thomas apparently did in the late 90s, taping numerous short-form, maybe sometimes stream-of-consciousness pieces that might be able to be further refined, compiled, etc. And *that* type of process is not something that seems to have ever been something that Mike Love can facilitate. In other words, *if* Brian is in good enough shape these days to have a good day where he could sit down with Mike and riff on some stuff an "see what happens", they'd probably need a third person there, either during or certainly after, to refine what they do. I'm sure someone like Darian could do this.

To be clear, I'm trying to stay open minded and not make any assumptions one way or the other about Brian's condition. I'm not putting my head in the sand about any of this. I think it's possible that Brian's just not in good enough shape to do anything like this. That time may have passed. And, I don't even know how I feel about the idea of just taping Brian's every moment at a piano for the rest of his life and like having someone else try to stitch together things from that. But I'm open to the idea that he perhaps has good days where musical things could still happen.

Someone send this to me and I don't know where to post it:


Beach Boys reunion teased as Mike Love, 83, and Bruce Johnson, 81, let plans slip


https://www.mirror.co.uk/3am/us-celebrity-news/breaking-beach-boys-reunion-teased-32808496?

I think it's safe to assume that this couldn't be about anything more than possibly being in the same room/place at some point, as opposed to any actual "reunion" activity.

This is just an edited-down version of what's on the "Sail on Sailor' boxed set, right?

Stamos and McGrath should return to whichever hell they came from.
Sadly, all this was to expect when the excellent Totten and Cowsill were "let go".

The romantic in me hopes that Scott and John left the first time they saw Stamos and McGrath together.

Unfortunately, no. The Stamos/McGrath pairing happened at least as early as 2017. But it did result in this Magnum Opus of our time:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdYbymafUd0

The latest on the situation. Nothing unexpected, and it sounds like everybody is on the same page and in agreement:

https://apnews.com/article/brian-wilson-conservatorship-beach-boys-be53d427864ea9a32d3b4d438625683e

The "TL/DR": The conservatorship has been granted, and everybody seems to be on the same page, including all children (including Carnie and Wendy). There are a few details in the article based on a court-appointed attorney who visited with Brian. It's about what you would expect given what we know. It's definitely a "could be better, but could be worse" kind of situation.

Sounds like all business and personal/medical affairs are as taken care of as they possibly could be, based on the information we have of course.

I'm the biggest Al fan around, but the slow pace on getting music is done is on him much more than scheduling or logistics. He's had a full-service, professional studio mere *steps* from his front door for about 45 years now!

As I've often said, I don't think he has been wholly unproductive. I suspect there are DOZENS AND DOZENS of songs he has worked on over all those years, and I'm sure a number of them are "finished enough" to release. A few have trickled out over the years, like that "Crumple Car." Some of them, like "Crumple Car", are slight and probably not worth putting on an album. But I'm sure he has a good album or two that could be compiled without even doing any new recording, or very minimal. If he got a producer in there to make it happen somehow, I think that would work.

But the guy is impossible to figure out. He has *re-released* "A Postcard from California" multiple times, yet has *sat on* outtakes from him that he could have included, plus alternate versions. There's studio footage of Brian singing verses on "A Postcard from California", and that version has never been released.

I'm not as big on more cover versions from Al, but ironically the re-make of "California Dreamin" he put on the second version of "Postcards" is a pretty good re-imagining of the song. So I wouldn't mind more stuff *like that.*

RIP
…But any chance of a re-do of the C50 Live album without autotune now? 😁

While there are cost issues involved in clearing a ton of songs for a Blu-ray of the full show (though that should happen too, just charge more!), there's no reason to not release the 61-song Royal Albert Hall gig from the reunion tour.

There should have been a bunch of consolation releases in the aftermath of the reunion stalling out prematurely.

Unfortunately, Mike still seems kind of irked about some aspects of the reunion, so I'm not sure how likely it is for them to do what at this point would essentially be "archival" releases from the 50th anniversary.

Not to be morbid, but we've just recently been talking about Mike developed some pretty intense animus towards Joe Thomas by the end of the reunion project, so I don't know if working with the reunion material in any form might be easier in the future now?

It could also depend on who owns the rights to the footage, along with the other moving parts involving rights, clearances, etc. The question is whether the footage is owned or in any way controlled by the Wilson-Love-Thomas LLC "50 Big Ones", or whether everything went to Capitol, Brother, etc. Was "50 Big Ones LLC" dissolved after the tour and subsequent media releases from that tour, or is it still in effect and could have a stake in that footage and control over what gets done with it in the future?

I agree, that Royal Albert Hall gig and the other final shows from the tour in the UK deserve a standalone release. No post-production "fixing" either!

Setting aside the willingness of any band members to release the stuff, the only big roadblock I can see is paying the sync rights for the compositions for any video release. This is why the official Blu-ray of the tour was only like 21 songs (and not coincidentally heavier on Brother-era compositions and the two new songs, where they could "negotiate with themselves" for low sync fees).

They didn't even want to put 30 songs on that Blu-ray, let alone 61.

The rights to the footage of shows they commissioned to have professionally shot would almost certainly lie with either Brother (and thus now Iconic/BRI) or "50 Big Ones Productions." I suspect the latter was mainly put together to run the tour. I think Joe Thomas was involved in the live albums and videos as well, but if you look at the "Live In Concert" Blu-ray, it lists "Brother Records, Inc." as the owner, not "50 Big Ones."

I suspect Iconic/BRI own the footage to a number of full shows shot on the tour. Obviously there's whatever show they used for that Blu-Ray (Arizona I think?), the early tour show they used for the "Doin' It Again" Blu-ray, the Red Rocks show, probably the Hollywood Bowl show (unless they had a special 3D company doing that who might have some claim in the footage), Royal Albert Hall, etc.

I'd love at least a *fuller* show released on video. But on the audio side, it's all flat royalties, so an audio (digital or CD, etc.) release of anything and everything from the tour would not be cost prohibitive. Releasing the Royal Albert Hall show would just seemingly be the easiest to cover nearly all the bases, as they did all 61 songs performed over the course of the tour. The only thing we wouldn't get on that would be variations like Dave singing "Hawaii." It would probably sound rough at times; I recall some of Brian's leads on stuff like "This Whole World" and "Good Timin'" could be rough at some gigs.

But I recently listened to an audience recording of the Royal Albert Hall show, and they sound pretty good overall. They seem to have a bit of extra pep. Even the premiere of "Summer's Gone" sounds pretty strong.

I certainly wouldn't be opposed to a collection that covers every song from the tour by picking the best performances from throughout the tour.

I'd love for Al to get another album or even EP out; anything but "Waves of Love."

But he has been talking about the Neil Young "soldier" track for probably over a decade, and "Islands in the Sun" has been a title floating around for decades as well (not sure how often Al has personally mentioned that one).

Al has tons of stuff in his vaults. He has enough material for another album, easily. He just has his thing about taking a zillion years to finish anything. He needs an outside producer to come in and tell him what to do, both in terms of culling old material and doing any new recording.

RIP
…But any chance of a re-do of the C50 Live album without autotune now? 😁

While there are cost issues involved in clearing a ton of songs for a Blu-ray of the full show (though that should happen too, just charge more!), there's no reason to not release the 61-song Royal Albert Hall gig from the reunion tour.

There should have been a bunch of consolation releases in the aftermath of the reunion stalling out prematurely.

Unfortunately, Mike still seems kind of irked about some aspects of the reunion, so I'm not sure how likely it is for them to do what at this point would essentially be "archival" releases from the 50th anniversary.

Not to be morbid, but we've just recently been talking about Mike developed some pretty intense animus towards Joe Thomas by the end of the reunion project, so I don't know if working with the reunion material in any form might be easier in the future now?

Ya I'm 99% sure this doc goes up to present day.  Otherwise 1974 is such a slap in the face to fans, like wtf!?

I haven't seen the film, so I can't say anything with 100% certainty. I think it's quite possible key events from the later years are covered very briefly via some sort of epilogue or on-screen text or something.

But you're not going to see post-1974 covered in any detail. Certainly you're not going to see detailed discussion of Dennis' demise, the Landy situation, Carl's death, the 1998 splintering, the 2012 reunion, etc. As far as I'm aware.

The 2012 reunion wouldn't have happened without Joe Thomas. All of that stuff, the studio album, live album, two DVDs, and a world tour, none of that would have likely been able to happen without him. We would have been lucky to get a one-shot PBS reunion special.

I never need to hear extra oboes or clarinets on a Brian song again, but the fact of the matter is that Joe is one of several people (we can throw Andy Paley in there too, maybe even Don Was a bit) that jump started Brian in the post-Landy era to get him to the point where he did all of that stuff in the 1998 to 2020s period, including the big ones like "Smile." And, as with the BB reunion, we probably have Joe Thomas to thank more than most anybody else barring Brian and Melinda for the actual logistical push to make the Brian stuff happen, as in actually getting tours going and getting albums finished and out the door.

I also think Joe Thomas learned and adapted as far as his experiences in 1996-1999 with Brian in relation to when he resurfaced with Brian and the BBs in the 2010s. Whereas, in 1998, you'd watch the "Imagination" documentaries and could be forgiven for thinking the artist in question was a "Wilson & Thomas" duo, with Thomas up front in interviews and photos (and on stage for the first legs of the 1999 tour), by 2012 Thomas was *completely* behind the scenes. I've still *never* seen a photo of Joe with the reunion band in 2012, and I've seen precisely *one* photo of him post-2012 with any of the guys (one 2013 photo with Brian/Al/Dave). He also has given, what, one or two interviews?

Do we know if Al actually saw the finished product? It's not uncommon that the artists only see the actual movie at the premiere and before that only get to watch some snippets.

It's certainly unknown precisely which cut he has seen. But I have to say, his comments about the film make sense in light of the things I've heard about the film over the past weeks and months.

I think the filmmakers (remember, a totally different team of course than the people who work on the audio/music/boxed set releases) ran into some of the common pitfalls that occur when working with the Beach Boys/BRI political apparatus (even now with Iconic involved as well), and there was probably a point at which they had to just finish the thing and get it out the door and done. That might be part of why the thing cuts off in 1974.

I also suspect perhaps part of what Al is talking about in that interview is the likely lack of ability of the filmmakers to do much of any substantive new interviews with Brian.

Doc is 1 hour, 53 minutes:

I'm sure they're rushing to make a new poster for the documentary so they can put that Al quote on it.

This "Good Vibrations" stereo remix has AI vocals on it; I don't want to presume who noticed this or who didn't.

I was under the initial impression based on the title of the video that perhaps it was only using AI as a splitter/separation tool. But something immediately sounded off on the vocals. Subtle, but off. And, in fairness, it does state in the description of the video that it has AI vocal enhancements.

It wouldn't really make sense then to try to compare this to officially-released stereo remixes.

Yes a missed step for sure. 2013 could have been built around a ‘Beach Boys Present Pet Sounds Live’ tour similar to Brian and Al’s 2016 tour.

Yeah, that 50th anniversary tour band was, as was put back then, an "embarrassment of riches." Brian's band plus the best from Mike's band.

And I'll always be grateful it happened.

But while it does no good to dwell on it, part of the history of the saga will always be how the greatness of that tour and reunion were pissed away, and we all knew that things would not be in good enough shape for them to try it again TEN years later for a 60th. And sure enough, subsequently, Brian's not in touring shape, and frankly Mike's sounding pretty rough at his gigs. Multiple people from the backing band have passed away, others have left or been let go. Obviously, this is partly just a consequence of time. But it's worth noting that as of the second half of last year, there is essentially *nobody* from that amazing 50th anniversary band currently touring in a band on any sort of regular basis playing BB music. Totten and Cowsill aren't with Mike anymore, and of course Brian isn't touring anymore, so his guys aren't out there. Al sometimes uses Probyn for his gigs, but Al is only doing a gig here and there.

Some sort of "The Brian Wilson Band" with Al fronting it could have worked, and I think still could, but I think even the time for *that* may have passed, if it was ever logistically or financially feasible in the first place.

Thankfully, the excellent archival releases over the last several years have been the deserved focus of the best that the "Beach Boys" brand still has to offer.

The album and tour were outstanding. We were lucky to receive what we got.

The only downside was the lack of a definitive filmed document of a show, but you can’t have everything. In hindsight, I think I choose to draw the curtain of my fandom there.

Some peculiar stuff went on regarding additional video/film documents of the tour. The Hollywood Bowl show was supposedly shot in *3D* for a prospective theatrical release that never happened. The Red Rocks show was supposedly shot by a full video crew (beyond the normal in-house video stuff).

Then there was that tour documentary/video project that was done through a Kickstarter-like service called "Pledge Music", where a lot of us contributed money only to see the whole thing canceled around a year later (though everybody did get a refund). I recall somebody doing some sleuthing on that project and found that some of the people tied into it had had other legal/business problems.

All of this in addition to many if not most shows on the tour surely being captured by in-house video.

And of course the ideal scenario would be to get the second-to-last date at the Royal Albert Hall on video, as that was the gig where they did a full 61-song setlist featuring every song that had been performed on tour. It's unclear how much of a full-blown pro shoot was done for that, but it was shot in some capacity based on the camera mounts on the mic stands, etc.

Second best scenario would probably be the final night at Wembley, where they did a nearly-complete setlist with around 55 songs, and that one was surely captured as it was put up on the video screens.

Unfortunately, the sync rights to clearing 61 songs for a video release would dictate a Blu-ray of it would probably need to cost $100 (which of course *I'd* gladly pay).

In a pinch, I wouldn't even mind just getting all of whatever gig it was that the used for that 21-song "In Concert" Blu-ray (was it one of the Arizona gigs?).

As it stands now, the longest available pro-shot document of the C50 tour is the Japan gig that was shown on Japanese TV, and even that one only seems to circulate in not-so-great SD despite being shot and broadcast in full HD, and it *still* wasn't the full show.

But it would be nice to get a nice 3-CD "Complete" audio document of the tour at least, and any audio releases from that tour would not be cost prohibitive.

I have to wonder if some of the projects stalling out might have to do with Mike souring on Joe Thomas for whatever reason, because I'm guessing that Joe is a 1/3 business partner in most if not all of the reunion-related projects, including pro-shot videos of gigs.

Ironically, we're at a point in BB history where Mike is probably more enthusiastic about issuing 70s material than more material from 2012.

It seems that the whole reunion thing was rushed. They should have taken more time on the album, allow for more involvement from Mike, Al, Bruce, and David. Instead, what we got was essentially a latter day BW album with Beach Boy vocals on it.
They also should have spent more time rehearsing the new songs, integrating them into the live show.
When was the last time any of the touring bands played TWGMTR songs? It's an album they all seemed to forget about quickly.

In a “normal” scenario where there wasn’t always the fear that the entire thing could fall apart in the blink of an eye, yes, they should have taken more time.

But the reality is that the whole reunion project had a lot of stops and starts even on the accelerated timeline (I don’t think a lot of the backroom stops and starts have even been discussed; it’s beyond just the issues Mike brought up in his book), and if there was no ability to stop and take time. Mike was literally hitting “pause” on his own touring deal to do this, and he didn’t have a ton of time off the road after his 2011 tour dates ended in order to even *record* parts for an album, let alone start *writing* stuff from scratch. Indeed, I think Mike actually did at least one gig with his own “Beach Boys” band in 2012 *before* the reunion tour started.

I think the only way we were even going to get what we did in 2012 was with Joe Thomas and Capitol and the tour apparatus literally *pushing* these guys out the door as quickly as possible to get it done.

I think, given the amount of time they had, they pulled the album off pretty well (it’s not like “Summer in Paradise” or “Still Cruisin’” felt *more* collaborative), and even more so with the tour. They did an excellent job of bridging the gap between Brian and Mike’s band, both in terms of musicians as well as setlist and arrangement choices. And it did evolve as the tour went on; they added more songs and changed more songs up.

Had they continued in 2013, I think the live show could have gotten *even better*. We could have gotten a full “Beach Boys” live version of “Pet Sounds” for instance.

As for TWGMTR tracks on subsequent tours, I believe Mike kept doing “Isn’t It Time” with his own band for some late 2012 dates (and possibly into 2013?), and that was it for Mike. Brian did “That’s Why God Made the Radio” and "Summer's Gone" on his first short tour with Al and Dave in 2013 (they also briefly brought back “Your Imagination!”), but they got dropped from most setlists when they had to shorten his setlist for the 2013 joint Jeff Beck tour (I think "TWGMTR" still made it into a few of the joint Beck shows). And then Brian did “Pacific Coast Highway” and “Summer’s Gone” for that one 2014 gig at the Venetian for PBS.

I don't think anybody much has like overt, purposeful ill intent when making AI vocals. And certainly, I'm very willing to take at their word both "Dae Lims" and those who like the work that it's not done with any ill intent.

That's sometimes part of the problem with some AI stuff, though. Like, how many people using AI to create art out there right now are doing it just to f**k with people, or to ruin anything?

Even the person that completed that poignant painting mentioned in my previous post, it doesn't appear as though they were trying to troll anyone or ruin anything. But they did. As with many cases, it's often unclear even *after* some AI stuff is lambasted, whether the person making it even *understands* the criticisms.

While some might be feigning ignorance, I think some really are just like "I'm made an art too! I'm an artist. I don't understand the problem."

I think the story of *why* people use AI to create art is still being written of course. I think, especially when it comes to visual art, there are a lot of lazy and/or untalented people who really get off on doing something that makes them *feel* like they're creating, like they're talented, like they're artistic. There is also a contingent of tech bros, adjacent to all the NFT stuff and whatnot, that are using AI to run various grifts. There are also some people just tooling around with it.

It's a very messy situation, and as I've often said, we haven't even delved into the broad moral/ethical implications of the stuff on this thread, up to and including a "Skynet/Terminator" sort of scenario. There are also smaller, more practical problems that will surely arise, including people NOT marking this stuff as fake/AI and letting it proliferate.

In the case with this BB stuff we're talking about, it is clearly done with a lot of workshopping and intent, and plenty of self-awareness as to the nature of what they're doing.

So, as I've mentioned in the more distant past, I really don't like bursting in like the Kool Aid man and questioning the work of one of the only people making this stuff who are being as thoughtful as possible about it, labeling it appropriately as AI, etc. But it's some of the only work in the realm of BB stuff that is getting attention, so it's what ends up being the topic of discussion.