Beach Boys "Fun Fun Fun" at Dodger Stadium

[Ron]

I am deeply concerned that Jeff, as displayed in both the Grammys and, much more markedly, at Dodger stadium, is singing and playing as if he were a lead singer or a solo act, with the dear, still mighty BB reduced to merely a faint echo in the background.

Complete nonsense.  He's singing normally into the microphone, just as he does at Brian's shows, except the SOUND GUY TURNED HIS MIC UP.

How hard is this to figure out?  He's not moving in front of Mike.  He's not belting into the mic.  He's doing his job.




LET ME ALSO SAY.

Mike Love is standing on the stage.  There is not a person alive who's going to f*** Mike Love out of a lead vocal, or sound louder than Mike Love, if Mike Love doesn't want them to.  If Jeff was being pushy in the band, Mike, at 93 years old or however ancient he is, would kick his ass either verbally or possibly physically. 

[seltaeb1012002]

I don't get the "lower the key of the songs and/or do without the falsetto" comments. Or maybe those that submit that idea don't get the BB's music.
...There's harmony stacks everywhere.

What's not to get about changing keys from F down to Eb, or some other transposition? If no one in the group can execute the falsetto parts, bring in ringers, which they do. You can have harmony stacks in any range. No one has suggested that they sing low end triads.

Well, of course the people arguing for key changes are also arguing that they *shouldn't* have extra singers. But that aside, if you change the key down a tone, you're not only bringing the high end down, you're bringing the low end down too. Mike's voice is quite weak these days, and he may not be able to hit extremely low notes.

At some point, those arguing for the band to sing without assistance are going to have to face reality. The Beach Boys *were* one of the greatest -- if not *the* greatest -- vocal groups of all time. But that was before Brian lost his top end completely (and he can't keep pitch wonderfully even in the range he's still got), Carl died, and Bruce's voice roughened and became much quieter.

I'm absolutely certain that when we see an actual show, we'll have a better mix than we've seen so far. But I also know what that mix will be -- there'll be a prominent five-part harmony stack of Totten, Foskett, Cowsill, Al and Mike, and a lower-in-the-mix wash of everyone else. Obviously we'll be able to hear Brian, David and Bruce on their leads, but otherwise we won't be able to pick them out of the mix. They'll *be* there, but no more prominent than Scott Bennet or Probyn. At least, that's what they'll do if they have any sense at all, as that's the way they'll actually get a good sound out.

I'm going to go to the shows because I want to see Mike, Al, Brian, Bruce and David take their lead vocals, and hear them backed by extremely good musicians, and hear Mike and Al in the harmony stack. Anyone going because they expect to hear the BBs sing like they could in the 1960s will be horribly disappointed. They've used additonal singers, especially for the falsetto, for more than thirty years -- they're not going to stop now...

Great post.

It's just sad to think that BW's completely shut the door on his falsetto. I'm pretty sure he could still do it, if he cared to. BW on the high part, ragged or not, will give us the most authentic BB's sound.

But... (like others have said) I think the best bet would be to have one small feature in the show with the 5 originals singing themselves. That would be a great nod to us hardcore fans.

[Ron]

At least Paul SINGS those damn songs and doesn't seem to lose sleep over whether or not he flubs a note or his aging voice cracks. He's freaking Paul McCartney for Chris's sake and people pay to see and hear him, and he give them what they paid for!

I disagree with some of the things you said about Jeff, but the thing about McCartney:

In my opinion, his voice was pretty WEAK in the early 90's, around the "tripping the live fantastic" album.  However performing has brought his voice back to great again.  So you're right; not only does Paul not really care if he screws up a note, he actually has a history of his voice getting much better because he was willing to go out there and just go for it. 

[Autotune]

I don't get the "lower the key of the songs and/or do without the falsetto" comments. Or maybe those that submit that idea don't get the BB's music.
...There's harmony stacks everywhere.

What's not to get about changing keys from F down to Eb, or some other transposition? If no one in the group can execute the falsetto parts, bring in ringers, which they do. You can have harmony stacks in any range. No one has suggested that they sing low end triads.

Well, of course the people arguing for key changes are also arguing that they *shouldn't* have extra singers. But that aside, if you change the key down a tone, you're not only bringing the high end down, you're bringing the low end down too. Mike's voice is quite weak these days, and he may not be able to hit extremely low notes.

Mike is still going strong as a R&B-type bass singer (i.e. a white male singing a cool low baritone), so that's not the problem. But his lowest good note is the F sharp, perhaps F natural (like he sings in the chorus of Kokomo). Other than that, his tone does not ring. This has not to do with age or anything... it's just the way his voice is. The guy's a high baritone/tenor singing bass lines, and it's been like that all his life... Brian's arrangements are constructed, in part, around this fact. By the way, it's unusual in vocal groups, I think, to have the signature tenor lead be also the bass singer.

For the record, the lowest note he's recorded, I think, is the low E in Hot Fun in the Summertime. And when you listen to it you can percieve that he's just past his strongest-sounding bass range.

So, going back to my original point, lowering the keys = killing Mike's lines and destroying the arrangements.

[Autotune]

I am deeply concerned that Jeff, as displayed in both the Grammys and, much more markedly, at Dodger stadium, is singing and playing as if he were a lead singer or a solo act, with the dear, still mighty BB reduced to merely a faint echo in the background.

Complete nonsense.  He's singing normally into the microphone, just as he does at Brian's shows, except the SOUND GUY TURNED HIS MIC UP.

How hard is this to figure out?  He's not moving in front of Mike.  He's not belting into the mic.  He's doing his job.

And he's singing along with John Cowsill, who has one of the strongest voices in the planet.

[MaxL]

I am deeply concerned that Jeff, as displayed in both the Grammys and, much more markedly, at Dodger stadium, is singing and playing as if he were a lead singer or a solo act, with the dear, still mighty BB reduced to merely a faint echo in the background.

LET ME ALSO SAY.

Mike Love is standing on the stage.  There is not a person alive who's going to f*ck Mike Love out of a lead vocal, or sound louder than Mike Love, if Mike Love doesn't want them to.  If Jeff was being pushy in the band, Mike, at 93 years old or however ancient he is, would kick his ass either verbally or possibly physically. 

People need to listen to Ron.

[Mikie]

I'm pretty sure he could still do it, if he cared to. BW on the high part, ragged or not, will give us the most authentic BB's sound.

Uuuuuuuuuuuuhhhhhhhhhhh...........................no. 

[Autotune]

It's just sad to think that BW's completely shut the door on his falsetto. I'm pretty sure he could still do it, if he cared to. BW on the high part, ragged or not, will give us the most authentic BB's sound.

Not for the last 35 years.

[Mikie]

People need to listen to Ron.

No they don't.

[Heysaboda]

At least Paul SINGS those damn songs and doesn't seem to lose sleep over whether or not he flubs a note or his aging voice cracks. He's freaking Paul McCartney for Chris's sake and people pay to see and hear him, and he give them what they paid for!

Huzzah!

and

Double HUZZAH!

[endofposts]

I'm not sure why people are saying Brian should be turned down in the mix.  He has sounded just fine on the harmony parts where you can hear him, although he no longer does falsetto, other than to hit a high note here and there.  He's a perfectly adequate mid-range harmony singer and he's pretty much on-key.  You can pick his voice out in the mix on the national anthem.

That said, I'm still hoping they either get another guy besides Jeff to do the falsetto parts or have a doubling voice to sing along with him, who's turned up when he does sing falsetto parts.  His falsetto is grating by itself, and that's true of a lot of male falsetto singers, not just Jeff.  It's easier to get a male falsetto singer to sound good in the studio (with doubling and assorted audio processing effects) than in a live situation as a solo voice.  He was turned up way too high in the mix on "Surfer Girl," because on the original record, there are other, lower voices harmonizing on the lead, and you really can't hear them much at all on either the TV mix or the audience recordings at Dodger Stadium.  I agree it's probably the sound man's fault and not Jeff's.  They should have picked another song that would have showcased Mike more, such as "California Girls."  It would have been less of a let-down to have a real Beach Boy representing the reunited Beach Boys.  Or "Help Me, Rhonda" to showcase Al.  

[Aegir]

It's obviously not Jeff's fault. It's not like he decided while they were singing to sing louder than everyone else.

It was a calculated decision that everyone came to an agreement about.

and as far as the comment about Mike not wanting to give up his leads, I remember hearing quite a few stories a few years back of Mike having laryngitis and Chris Farmer singing all of Mike's leads with Mike just lipsyncing.

[stack-o-tracks]

People need to listen to Ron.

No they don't.

This made me laugh for some reason.

[AndrewHickey]

That said, I'm still hoping they either get another guy besides Jeff to do the falsetto parts or have a doubling voice to sing along with him, who's turned up when he does sing falsetto parts.  His falsetto is grating by itself, and that's true of a lot of male falsetto singers, not just Jeff.  It's easier to get a male falsetto singer to sound good in the studio (with doubling and assorted audio processing effects) than in a live situation as a solo voice.  He was turned up way too high in the mix on "Surfer Girl," because on the original record, there are other, lower voices harmonizing on the lead, and you really can't hear them much at all on either the TV mix or the audience recordings at Dodger Stadium.  I agree it's probably the sound man's fault and not Jeff's.  They should have picked another song that would have showcased Mike more, such as "California Girls."  It would have been less of a let-down to have a real Beach Boy representing the reunited Beach Boys.  Or "Help Me, Rhonda" to showcase Al.  

Scott Totten is in the touring band, and he sings a lot of the falsetto parts in Mike's band (often doubling Randell Kirsch, whose voice is very similar to Jeff's). I imagine it'll be done the way it has been in the past with Brian's band -- Jeff taking solo lead falsetto parts like Don't Worry Baby or the falsetto in I Get Around, because he has the stronger voice, but either being doubled on the high harmony parts or taking the Carl part and letting Totten do Brian's part when it's just part of the harmony stack, because Totten is better on the really high notes.

Incidentally, if they do hand out leads to non band members, they should have Totten doing Let Him Run Wild -- he was absolutely phenomenal on that on the 2008 tour.

Mike said in the pre-game interview thing that they chose Surfer Girl precisely because it doesn't spotlight one band member but is a harmony thing. If they'd done anything with a solo lead, people would be complaining that most of the band were stood around doing nothing.

One final thing, on a different note -- rehearsals started yesterday, and today Brian's Facebook posted some of the lyrics to Busy Doin' Nothin'. Fingers crossed that they're rehearsing that one...

[MaxL]

People need to listen to Ron.

No they don't.

This made me laugh for some reason.

This would be a much simpler place if everyone's posts were one sentence long and straight to the point.




Glad they're not though.

[I. Spaceman]

"Bob Dylan's audience wants reality, and they get it."

I've been to great Dylan shows in the last few years where he's really up for it and actually sings; I've been to others where the band caries him and he displays no interest whatsoever, almost Brian-like.  The bulk of the audience don't seem to care,  It's Bob Dylan and he's singing THOSE songs that are part of our cultural heritage.  As for his recent recorded stuff... I can take or leave the faux-Crosby crooning; mostly I can leave the endless chugging bar room boogie stuff. Leave that to J. J. Cale (and I'll leave that too). As for all the fuus about him lifting other people's lyrics, other people's prose for his 'autobiography' and other people's artwork... Hey, he's post-modern.  Always has been. But reality? No.  It's Dylan's current reinvention  of himself.

Dylan is Alias. Reinvention is reality, as far as his career is concerned. If we can agree that reality can be relative.
Dylan's band may "carry" him musically, but does he have people on stage singing and playing along in an eaxct 60's/70's Dylan tone to cover him up? No. When Bob is shitty, he's just shitty. No one can carry him.

[Heysaboda]

One final thing, on a different note -- rehearsals started yesterday, and today Brian's Facebook posted some of the lyrics to Busy Doin' Nothin'. Fingers crossed that they're rehearsing that one...

It just crossed my mind that it would be cool to have a DVD/CD of the 50 celebration rehearsal sessions, and not just clips.  Would be cool to see/hear the songs being rehearsed, worked on, parts worked out and sung, and then final rehearsal performances.

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

I don't get the "lower the key of the songs and/or do without the falsetto" comments. Or maybe those that submit that idea don't get the BB's music.

The whole BB catalogue is harmony-dominated and driven. There's harmony stacks everywhere. There's a certain relation between the lead and its backgrounds. You don't change keys easily in that context. You kill the bass line, to begin with. Or, If you drop the falsetto leads down an octave, it'll sound like sh*t,  the former high lead clashing against the mid-range harmony parts.

In other words: don't you people realize how heavily your favorite music is built upon tight arrangements?  And that changing a crucial part of them would mess up the whole? They would have to rearrange their entire setlist to produce a sh*t-sounding result.

This ain't a Bob Dylan freakin' folk song. This is the Beach Boys, dammit.

Maybe only you get the Beach Boys music and us morons simply don't, but anything can be adjusted. Just ask the Beach Boys themselves. They did "Do It Again" with the horns mimicking Brian's falsetto (back when Al, Carl, or Bruce were perfectly capable of doing it) and they also did "I Get Around" without the falsetto or anything mimicking it at all. It only takes a few minutes of thought.

[Stegibo]

Maybe only you get the Beach Boys music and us morons simply don't, but anything can be adjusted. Just ask the Beach Boys themselves. They did "Do It Again" with the horns mimicking Brian's falsetto (back when Al, Carl, or Bruce were perfectly capable of doing it) and they also did "I Get Around" without the falsetto or anything mimicking it at all. It only takes a few minutes of thought.

When did they do that?

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

Maybe only you get the Beach Boys music and us morons simply don't, but anything can be adjusted. Just ask the Beach Boys themselves. They did "Do It Again" with the horns mimicking Brian's falsetto (back when Al, Carl, or Bruce were perfectly capable of doing it) and they also did "I Get Around" without the falsetto or anything mimicking it at all. It only takes a few minutes of thought.

When did they do that?

Do it Again: on both Live In London and the Knebworth album/dvd and I Get Around on the Central Park concert and random boots. It's all there via recorded evidence.

[Chris Brown]

Good points being made all around.  The whole thing is a bit of a catch-22.  I do agree that just lowering keys across the board would ruin a lot of the songs because of the way the vocal arrangements were constructed (especially Mike's parts).  It's also a good point to say that the audience will go in expecting a certain level of "polish" on their performances, and just throwing the Boys out there on their own vocally would lead to a lot of disappointed concert-goers.  It's not realistic to make them bear the weight of carrying the show vocally. 

At the same time though, I do think it is important to have at least one segment of the show (by segment I mean maybe 1-3 songs) that features the Beach Boys as the exclusive vocalists.  Something like "Our Prayer" or "Their Hearts Were Full of Spring."  Lower the key, rearrange the vocals, I don't care - the Boys deserve to have a moment in concert where they just sing together like they used to in the old days (sadly, short a few members).  It may not sound like a pristine 1965 performance, but if they rehearse well enough, I think they could pull off something that would exceed most people's expectations.  They've earned a right to be heard on their own without using additional vocalists as a crutch.

[stack-o-tracks]

People need to listen to Ron.

No they don't.

This made me laugh for some reason.

This would be a much simpler place if everyone's posts were one sentence long and straight to the point.




Glad they're not though.

I agree with you. 

[Autotune]

Maybe only you get the Beach Boys music and us morons simply don't, but anything can be adjusted. Just ask the Beach Boys themselves. They did "Do It Again" with the horns mimicking Brian's falsetto (back when Al, Carl, or Bruce were perfectly capable of doing it) and they also did "I Get Around" without the falsetto or anything mimicking it at all. It only takes a few minutes of thought.

When did they do that?

Do it Again: on both Live In London and the Knebworth album/dvd and I Get Around on the Central Park concert and random boots. It's all there via recorded evidence.

Your first post addressed at me was too aggressive, I think. But leave it at that.

Regarding the Central Park "I Get Around"... I think Bruce or somebody else is singing the high chorus lead but is left out of the TV mix-- the exact opposite of Foskett's Dodgers performance.

We can alwas have a french horn solo version of Don't Worry Baby, since none of the originals can sing it in its original key.



...or leave out songs with leads that have to be sung by others, like WOTS or DWB.

[Phoenix]

Personally, I love Jeff's rendition of "Don't Worry Baby" (my second favorite Beach Boys song) and really hope it's included in the shows.  I'd also like to see him sing "I Can Hear Music" as part of the tribute-to-Carl portion and (blasphemy warning: ) would probably prefer him on "Wouldn't It Be Nice", over 2012 Brian (who sometimes lets Jeff sing it at his shows) or 2012 Alan (who gave it to Carl in the 90's because he was having trouble with it THEN!), tho I really wouldn't care either way, as long as it's played.  Beyond those, I think Jeff's only other leads should be the top harmony "group" songs like "Surfer Girl", etc.  Personally I don't NEED to hear "Warmth Of The Sun" but I know it's a favorite of many so I guess I'd give him that one too.  

While it may sound like I want him upstaging the actual group, that's not the case.  Check out my posts in the setlist threads to see my take on my idea of a well balanced show.

...Just my two cents.

[Phoenix]

And speaking of the Dodgers performance, all the talk/furor over Jeff's inclusion/performance/mix there has overshadowed one thought that's been bugging me about it:  The inclusion of Scott and John!  At this point, Jeff is the main axillary non-Beach Boy.  For all intents and purposes to the general, casual fan (who doesn't follow the group, doesn't know who Carl Wilson was, etc.) Jeff IS one of the Beach Boys right now, as in "Ladies and Gentlemen: The Beach Boys!" and those six guys walk out, backed by that massive band.  Just as Matt appeared as one of The Beach Boys on Letterman, Home Improvement, Stars And Stripes, etc, during that point in time, that's how Jeff is depicted now:  At the stadium, in the new "Do It Again" video, etc.)  Whatever anyone us may think, the group feels it necessary to have someone in that role due to the "fact" that "none of the original guys can sing the falsetto parts any more."  But my question is regardless of how great Scott or John sing, it's not like the other guys in the group need people to help cover THEIR parts in the harmonies.

The "Star-Spangled Banner" was extremely light on Beach Boys styled harmonies and Mike referred to "Surfer Girl" as "four part harmony".  I suppose four parts, all doubled, would need eight singers but I'm pretty sure the song is four part harmony with a falsetto lead on top, which means one of the parts (in addition to the lead) isn't being doubled.  Furthermore, Mike and Bruce perform the song regularly with just seven singers so they obviously have an arrangement suited for that many singers.  So why bring in ANOTHER guy (or two) for this performance?  ESPECIALLY, if it's gonna be mixed so poorly that you only really hear the lead??? 

Again, I'm not knocking or doubting neither Scott nor John's ability.  I just don't know why we needed EIGHT "Beach Boys" to do four part harmony.

Thoughts?