The Smiley Smile Message Board

This is a list of 2019 tour dates for Brian Wilson, including two dates rescheduled from postponed 2018 dates. The shows are billed as continuing to include Al Jardine and Blondie Chaplin.

Some shows are "regular" shows, dubbed "Greatest Hits" shows. Others are "Pet Sounds" shows with the album performed in full (in addition to other songs), and later in the year Brian (again with Al and Blondie) will be doing a joint tour with The Zombies which is said to feature an emphasis on songs from the "Friends" and "Surf's Up" albums.

NOTE: June tour dates were postponed (and are included below in RED until or if they are rescheduled or otherwise accounted for).

Regular/"Greatest Hits" Tour Dates:

May 4, 2019 - Redondo Beach, CA - Beachlife Festival
(SETLIST - https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/brian-wilson/2019/seaside-lagoon-redondo-beach-ca-739096bd.html)

August 9, 2019 - Waterloo, NY - Del Lago Casino
(SETLIST - Unavailable)

September 29, 2019 - Bethlehem, PA - Sands Bethlehem Event Center
(SETLIST - https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/brian-wilson/2019/the-wind-creek-event-center-bethlehem-pa-4b9c1732.html)


"Pet Sounds" Tour Dates:

August 7, 2019 - Lewiston, NY - Artpark Mainstage (Rescheduled from June 15)
(SETLIST - https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/brian-wilson/2019/artpark-mainstage-lewiston-ny-539fb321.html)

August 10, 2019 - Fort Wayne, IN - Embassy Theatre
(SETLIST - https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/brian-wilson/2019/embassy-theatre-fort-wayne-in-739f9635.html)

August 11, 2019 -  Cuyahoga Falls, OH - Blossom Music Center (w/ Blossom Festival Orchestra)
(SETLIST - https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/brian-wilson/2019/blossom-music-center-cuyahoga-falls-oh-39f895f.html)

August 13, 2019 - Huber Heights, OH - Rose Music Center at The Heights (Rescheduled from June 18)
(SETLIST - https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/brian-wilson/2019/rose-music-center-at-the-heights-huber-heights-oh-6b9ffe1e.html)

October 2, 2019 - Red Bank, NJ - Count Basie Theatre (Rescheduled from June 11)
(SETLIST - https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/brian-wilson/2019/hackensack-meridian-health-theatre-red-bank-nj-5b9c7f90.html)


"Something Great from '68" Tour w/ The Zombies

August 31, 2019 – Las Vegas, NV - The Joint at Hard Rock Hotel and Casino
(SETLIST - https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/brian-wilson/2019/the-joint-at-hard-rock-hotel-las-vegas-nv-6b9f6e82.html)

September 1, 2019 – Indio, CA - Fantasy Springs Casino
(SETLIST - https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/brian-wilson/2019/fantasy-springs-resort-casino-indio-ca-3b9f606c.html)

September 6, 2019 – Phoenix, AZ - Comerica Theatre
(SETLIST - https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/brian-wilson/2019/comerica-theatre-phoenix-az-539f43bd.html)

September 7, 2019 – Pala, CA - Pala Casino
(SETLIST - https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/brian-wilson/2019/starlight-theater-pala-ca-5b9cbb60.html)

September 8, 2019 – Santa Barbara, CA - Arlington Theatre
(SETLIST - https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/brian-wilson/2019/arlington-theatre-santa-barbara-ca-5b9cb3c8.html)

September 12, 2019 – Los Angeles, CA - The Greek Theatre
(SETLIST - https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/brian-wilson/2019/greek-theatre-los-angeles-ca-339c90c9.html)

September 13, 2019 – Oakland, CA - The Fox Theater
(SETLIST - https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/brian-wilson/2019/fox-theater-oakland-ca-b9c89d6.html)

September 16, 2019 – Seattle, WA - Paramount Theatre
(SETLIST - https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/brian-wilson/2019/paramount-theatre-seattle-wa-5b9cf38c.html)

September 17, 2019 – Portland, OR - Arlene Schnitzer Concert Hall
(SETLIST - https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/brian-wilson/2019/arlene-schnitzer-concert-hall-portland-or-239ce8af.html)

September 19, 2019 – Sandy, UT - Sandy Amphitheater
(SETLIST - https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/brian-wilson/2019/sandy-amphitheater-sandy-city-ut-4b9cdfca.html)

September 20, 2019 – Denver, CO - Paramount Theater
(SETLIST - https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/brian-wilson/2019/paramount-theatre-denver-co-1b9cd500.html)

September 22, 2019 – Milwaukee, WI - Riverside Theater
(SETLIST - https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/brian-wilson/2019/riverside-theater-milwaukee-wi-3b9cc44c.html)

September 23, 2019 – Cincinnati, OH - Taft Theatre
(SETLIST - https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/brian-wilson/2019/taft-theatre-cincinnati-oh-7b9cc2ec.html)

September 24, 2019 – Detroit, MI - Masonic Temple Theatre
(SETLIST - https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/brian-wilson/2019/royal-oak-music-theatre-royal-oak-mi-739c3a15.html)

September 26, 2019 – New York, NY - Beacon Theatre
(SETLIST - https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/brian-wilson/2019/beacon-theatre-new-york-ny-3b9c2870.html)

September 27, 2019 – Waterbury, CT - Palace Theatre
(SETLIST - https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/brian-wilson/2019/palace-theater-waterbury-ct-7b9c261c.html)

September 28, 2019 – Philadelphia, PA - Tower Theatre
(SETLIST - https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/brian-wilson/2019/tower-theatre-upper-darby-pa-5b9c1fcc.html)

CANCELED DATES:

Greatest Hits Tour Dates
June 14, 2019 - Atlantic City, NJ - Hard Rock Live

Pet Sounds Tour Dates
June 8, 2019 - Concord, NH - Capitol Center for the Arts
June 9, 2019 - Burlington, VT - Flynn Theatre
June 12, 2019 - Baltimore, MD - Hippodrome Theatre
June 16, 2019 - Lenox, MA - Tanglewood Music Center
June 20, 2019 - Nashville, TN - Schermerhorn Symphony Center (w/ Nashville Symphony) (Rescheduled from May 2018)
June 21, 2019 - Nashville, TN - Schermerhorn Symphony Center (w/ Nashville Symphony) (Rescheduled from May 2018)
June 23, 2019 - Aurora, IL - River Edge Park

A thread for the 2020 tour can be found here: http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,26750.msg654445.html#msg654445

Jesus, the 53rd Anniversary Pet Sounds tour! :o

Maybe SMiLE might be a bit too ambitious to perform if Brian's still recovering somewhat from his back operation, but surely everyone who would want to see a Pet Sounds show or two would have had that opportunity by this point?

I know I sound like a dusty CD, but...didn't Brian say after the 2006 Pet Sounds mini-tour that after that tour was over he was retiring Pet Sounds? :)

People, those two 2019 dates are makeup dates for some of the cancelled 2018 PS shows.

Correct. We don’t know the format of the other shows as of yet

Updated the top post with the newly-announced 2019 date.

Added a new PS date for June 18th to the top post schedule.

Baltimore Hippodrome June 12th

This is BS. He brought the 50th Anniversary of Pet Sounds Final Performances to this venue in August of 2016, and now what? The FINAL FINAL performance in 2019?

I'll pass.

Separate from Brian's on-stage enthusiasm for the material, I don't see anything wrong with booking PS shows. Meaning, they're clearly getting offers from promoters/venues to book PS shows. They probably get more offers and/or more lucrative offers/guarantees for PS shows.

The issue is that Brian seems to have long since lost enthusiasm for the PS set. This has been happening since 2016. I previously thought time off in between tours might reinvigorate his enthusiasm for the material, but apparently not.

So yeah, in terms of Brian's on-stage performance (where he still seems to have some vigor/enthusiasm for the non-PS songs), I do wonder why they are continuing to book the PS gigs. I think they've already spread around the lead vocals as much as they can.

However, while several June dates are materializing, we don't yet know the extent to which they'll be touring in 2019. It may still be a "light" year touring-wise.

I'd say some will be makeup dates and some will be dates to make going out on tour worth it, even if it's a one-month gig or so. Might as well only practice one set, too, hence more "Pet Sounds."

If they happen to book a show near me, will definitely be going again!

Out of curiousity, how long does it take for a band of Brian's caliber to rehearse a song from scratch up until it's ready to be performed? Take for example "Mess of Help" which they haven't done live (and I can dream, can't I?). If Brian came up with the idea to play it, how long before it could be in the setlist?

"Mess of Help" would be a great showcase for Blondie!

That it would.

To play it well with accuracy? A half hour?

To re-create the record and ensure that can be repeated night after night? (For these guys) probably just a few days.

I think the repetitive setlists are to keep Brian on track although, that seems to bore him. This band could play thirty different songs every night without a problem.

Al is such a competent vocalist, and Blondie is great as well (not to mention the rest of the band)
Would it help to just retire Brian from leads? Have him on piano and throwing in some background vocals when he feel up to it.

While I think the initial 1999 Brian tour proved that this core of musicians (meaning the ones who are still with him now) can play and sing just about anything a Brian/BB-themed show could possibly throw at them, if anybody had any doubts, latter-day projects outside of that initial 1999 setlist scope definitively prove it.

They pulled off full album tours for PS and Smile in the early-mid 2000s.

On C50 in 2012 they proved they can be the definitive live band when performing "Mike-centric" songs not normally in Brian's setlists, like "Kokomo", "It's OK", "Still Cruisin", and so on.

For the 2014 PBS Soundstage taping, they had "Hold on Dear Brother" thrown at them and they did a jaw-dropping version completely with an impeccable Probyn guitar solo.

They pulled off all of those XMas songs last month, ranging from throwback arrangements on stuff like "Frosty the Snowman" to 70s vibe stuff like "Winter Symphony."

I think any released or unreleased track in the Brian/BB orb could not only be done by this band, but could be done in definitive live fashion.

The live band has literally gotten *better* with Matt Jardine and Al Jardine in the fold. It's of course a bummer that this has all occured as Brian's live performances have eroded in quality to varying degrees (depending on the day he's having, and also which song/setlist selection we're talking abotu).

I think seeing this band (or perhaps a slightly scaled-back version) back Al in concert would be ideal, but it'll likely never happen as Al can't do large enough shows to pay for the band.

I do still wish someone would throw enough money at Al to work up maybe a week's worth of deep cut shows with most of Brian's backing band, and shoot it for a Blu-ray (and live album).

But, to the original question, I have zero doubt that Brian's band could over the course of a few hours put together an impeccable "Mess of Help."

While we're sometimes seeing lately an increase of (sometimes justifiable) mixed/poor reviews of Brian's stage performance, I think if he continued to go out on tour and book shows as "Brian Wilson" but completely stepped away from any leads, that would lead to some problems with audiences/reviewers/critics and promoters.

I think they'd either have to book "Al/Blondie" shows separately (which isn't economically viable with that large band), or vastly change the billing of the shows to emphasize that it's something more like a "Glen Miller Orchestra" type of show, with with Glen Miller sitting in.

I think this is why a full Beach Boys reunion lineup would be ideal for Brian (theoretically; I realize the interpersonal and political reasons this isn't happening and maybe shouldn't). He could cut back on leads even more, but still participate, and he'd have four other guys (or five if they added Blondie) to pick up the slack, and no problems with show billing.

I saw Brian in November and I would be surprised if he took half the leads. I could be wrong, but it felt like Al took the majority of leads between Brian, Al and Blondie. Blondie's (lack of) use during the standard set is still baffling. I truly hope Brian and crew take some time off before June and don't book any shows in the interim. I hope that cures some of the ills I saw in November, but I would be surprised at this point. Too far gone.

New date - this is billed as a Pet Sounds show

Sunday 6/23 at River Edge Park in Aurora, IL - tix go on sale 1/15.

https://riveredgeaurora.com/events/brian-wilson/

Another one:
May 3-5 (exact date TBA) -- Redondo Beach, CA -- Beachlife Festival

https://www.dailybreeze.com/2019/01/14/new-beachlife-festival-in-redondo-beach-taps-brian-wilson-and-bob-weir-to-headline/

The story did not specify the exact date or if it was a PS show.

Looks like that festival gig is May 4.

Is this one still on?  I don't see it on the Hippodrome calendar or BW's tour page.  Thanks!

Interesting! It has vanished completely from Brian's tour page as well as his Facebook page. I never saw it on the Hippodrome website to begin with. I wonder if they jumped the gun with promotion and something fell through.

Actually, the Baltimore show looks like it might be back on as I saw it listed on the Hippodrome site -- says tix go on sale in a couple of days.
Brian's site doesn't list that one but does list a new date in NJ for June 11th.

Re:  The "Final Performances" - I can understand the disappointment that the marketing turned out to be false.  I attended a Farewell Tour concert by the Rolling Stones several years ago before many subsequent tours.  However, in my case I'm actually hoping to see a Pet Sounds performance this year.  In addition to lifelong fans, there are probably other people like myself who for whatever reason might have recently rediscovered the Beach Boys.

Added 6/11 and 6/16 dates to the top post schedule, and also indicated that the May "Beachlife" show is likely not a PS date but a "regular" setlist show.

Received an email today for presale for Baltimore show...yes, it's all back up and running. No tickets under $100...no thanks!

Dang that stinks - was hoping Baltimore would be more affordable - I'm not close but saw the show in Ohio has seats as low as $20...

I had 2nd row seats at Montgomery College for $10 each in 2015. No way am I paying triple digits four years later for a show I've seen three times since.

A new PS date:
Aug. 11 -- Cuyahoga Falls, OH -- Blossom Music Center, with the Blossom Festival Orchestra

Why do so many people on this board pretend that Brian live is good? This guy shouldn't be out on tour-the video's I've seen are really of a guy who seems almost forced to be participating in a show...

He has an incredible band playing and singing the music he wrote, and I've never been anything less than blown away after seeing him in concert. Sure, Brian doesn't sound the same as he did back in '65 and he isn't always engaged 100%, but just being in his presence while his music comes alive around him is an excellent experience that has always been worth the money

NPP tour I saw in 2015 begs to differ ::)

I agree, Brian was in great form and I felt I got my money's worth in 2015 when I saw him on the NPP tour.

I saw Brian late last year, dragging out Pet Sounds "one more time" and decided I would never pay to see him, again. I'm hoping Al brings his solo tour within driving distance--he was still in great voice.

Added a 6/14 "Greatest Hits" show to the top post schedule.

Absolutely. I saw Brian (with Al and Blondie) in 2015 and it was amazing. Absolutely wonderful show.

 :woot :woot :woot :woot

That was SOME show, huh? Brian was incredible!

Redondo Beach, CA??!??!?!   what the hell is Redondo Beach, CA????????? ;)

I just got an email from the Burlington VE jazz festival.  Brian is playing June 9, 2019.

Brian Wilson

Pet Sounds: The Final Performances

Sunday, June 9

Flynn MainStage

 

EXCLUSIVE PRE-SALE for Friends of Discover Jazz starts TODAY at 10am. Tickets go on sale to the public Friday, March 22 AT 10AM.
 
To become a Friend and instantly receive the Friends-only pre-sale promo, visit discoverjazz.com/friends.  Support over 100 hours of free live music and the festival’s music education programs, become a Friend of Discover Jazz today.

Let's get the Love You shows going!
Can you imagine Brian walking out and opening with Let Us Go On This Way? And the worse his vocals sounded the better it would be...

that is almost true

So you're basing your opinion of these shows on tinny sounding videos made by a microphone/camera as small as a grain of rice, which is then uploaded in a lossy format to youtube, and probably listened to on speakers the size of two grains of rice on your phone?

In person these shows are phenomenal...his backing band helps immensely even when Brian isn't on point for a few songs. Is Brian the 23 year old kid we hear on the records? Heck no, and he hasn't been since he was 23. His voice has changed every year of his existence, it's been ravaged by years of smoking and drug use, and he is now 76 yet still out there putting on a show. We're beyond lucky we can still see him perform, and I think most fans know what they're getting into when they buy tickets.

 :woot :woot :woot :woot  Right on, Rab!

Honestly, has anyone heard Brian's band sound less than spectacular? I know they're terribly self-critical and some fans grab comments from them with that modesty and say they had a bad night. Brian has physical challenges these days, but performs anyway. My last experience about 4 months ago, he sang less, but better. Someone I respect here on the Board was at the same show and was disappointed that Brian didn't smile and engage the audience. I'm sorry I forget about, and don't notice those things. I realize some fans really want that.  Brian may or may not smile at you (but the band will engage), and there will be wonderful music at the show. I guess I don't understand the problem. If you want to see Brian and band, buy a ticket. If you don't, don't buy a ticket. I think that's pretty simple.

Yes, Deb, OR, stop with the complaining and criticism of Brian and if you're into tribute bands, go see myKe luHv's fake BB's and tell me how great it was to not see Brian Wilson and his incredible band. Oh, I forgot, luHv thinks he's a legend too.  :p

Added 6/7 and 6/9 dates to the top post schedule.

What does it mean that some of the dates are listed "with Nashville Symphony" or other orchestras? Will they have a whole string section on retainer in addition to Brian's full band?

I just bought my tickets for the Aug. 11 date in Ohio. Feeling giddy!

The ones with orchestras are Pet Sounds shows, primarily concerts rescheduled as a result of Brian's surgery last year.

Regarding the shows notated as including an orchestra, it seems pretty self-explanatory. For those particular gigs, a local orchestra will be a part of the show. They're not on retainer as if they're tagging along on the whole tour. It's just a local orchestra added to the show.

I would imagine the BW tour operation still has all the charts from the 2000 PS symphonic shows, and in isolated cases where a local venue/promoter wants to integrate a full orchestra into the show, they can accommodate that.

The only thing I'm not sure about is if the orchestra will only play during the PS set, or during the entire show. I would guess mostly just the PS set, and then maybe a few other bits (I honestly can't remember where the orchestra came in on those 2000 PS shows beyond PS itself and the opening overture bit; the 2000 show I saw was one of the rare ones without an orchestra, and I actually thought PS sounded better without the orchestra honestly).

As a fan of the band I just don’t see how anyone could pass up an opportunity to see Brian play. The music is amazing even when performed on a bad night, but I’ve never seen a bad show. Every time I’ve seen Brian’s band, they have been phenomenal thru some bad nights on Brian’s part, and some good nights too.

Everyone always goes on about the bad nights like this wasn’t a guy who spent 3 years in bed due to mental illness. Seeing him when he’s “on” just makes that all the better. I saw him pull out a song they had performed just once in rehearsal. Shaky as hell, but really fun. Especially Brian yelling into his mic “TURN MY PIANO UP” and then pounding at his keys to make sure he was loud and in at the front of the mix. Good times.

 :woot :woot :woot You tell 'em Woodstock! :bw

Last November 30th, my husband and I went to see Brian's Christmas show in Hammond, IN.  Just the night before, our beloved 14-year-old beagle died suddenly.  We were stunned and heartbroken, in physical and emotional pain. 
In almost 30 times seeing Brian in concert, this was the only time I could say his performance was subpar (look back at the reviews if you want details).  The venue wasn't all that great, either - man, I can't stand casino all-purpose rooms.  But it didn't even matter - his band, Blondie, and Al more than made up for any of Brian's deficiencies.  They performed like their asses were on fire.  And during the encore set, I danced in the aisle and sang like crazy with all of the good ol' traditional Beach Boys show closers.  It was the balm for the hurt I had been through in the past 24 hours. 
Look, I'm a life-long fan.  My dad introduced me to Beach Boys music when I was a tiny kid, and that music was there to comfort me when he passed away.  I met my husband because of Brian's music.   That music has always been there for me in good times and bad, and has provided endless inspiration. 
Until I was almost 30, I never thought I would ever see Brian in concert.  Every show I've been to has been memorable and a gift.  It has been magical to see him progress from "deer in the headlights" of the first tour to "Here with go with 'Heroes & Villains' at the BW Tribute (we were lucky enough to be in the audience for the taping) to laughing and posing for a fan photo on stage during a Smile show.  This has been a journey for him, and I respect him so much for taking on something that has been very difficult at times.  If he's touring near where I live or a place I'm traveling to, I'm there.  There will come a day when none of us can see Brian in concert anywhere for any price, and I don't want to have any regrets.

This was posted on Brian's facebook account, hope it's visible:


(https://scontent-frt3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/58612877_10157895347847241_3747277017783992320_n.jpg?_nc_cat=109&_nc_eui2=AeFkOTTF6dTjn_afbf5-RLZqeviyoEm6-0EyxDtblWcSK7huwd_xJnJsCBpA37TuB-8LNnvibKD5IaOWbRcIBZt-FrcHhgrPSsVpa4EebqB7KQ&_nc_ht=scontent-frt3-1.xx&oh=e2c10a489d3da27e4d5c39ad1f7e1c9d&oe=5D734326)

Thanks!

Added a 6/8 Concord, NH date to the top post schedule. Also added the 9/19 Sandy, UT show (with the Zombies opening), which I'm assuming for the moment is a "regular" show, as I don't see mention in promotions for the show of it being a "Pet Sounds" show.

Very intrigued by the possibilities behind this combo with The Zombies. Not that I want to see "Pet Sounds" dragged out anymore than it has been, but could you imagine "Pet Sounds" AND "Odyssey and Oracle" in the same night? This also has the possibility to be what the Jeff Beck tour SHOULD have been. Could you imagine Beach Boys harmonies stacked up on something like "Tell Her No" or "I Love You"? And how about a kick ass Rod Argent organ solo over any of those early surfin' records...or the beautiful breathy yet somehow operatic blend of Colin Blunstone's voice on something like "The Warmth of The Sun"...I can hear some soaring up the octave "...that groooOOOOOWS into DaaaAAAAAAAYYYyyyyAH" ...Let's Go!!!

This may be the most excited I’ve ever been for a tour in a long time

Anyone know what the chances are of Brian coming back to Europe? It looks like only North America dates at this point

New date: Aug. 10 -- Fort Wayne, IN -- Embassy Theatre

In the top post, I've updated the setlist for the 5/4 "Beachlife" gig, and also added to the schedule an August 9th "Greatest Hits" show in NY and an August 10th PS show in Indiana.

Another greatest hits live show:
Aug. 9 -- Waterloo, NY -- The Vine at del Lago Resort and Casino

Something Great From ‘68.

Coming to a town near-ish to you!


https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/brian-wilson-zombies-north-american-tour-dates-832033/

Sadly, nowhere near me... I have to say the part about celebrating the music from Surf's Up excites me, tho. Hope that continues beyond the joint tour.

Wow, that's a great concept for a tour ! Definitely a needed change from the PS or greatest hits.

 Id go see this no question if they were anywhere near me.  :-\

I'm psyched! Love it!

Darn they're skipping the entire east coast, here's hoping some extra dates get announced.

They're playing at tthe Beacon Theatre in NYC.

Awesome poster.

(https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/59625222_2252695534811036_2735109592991137792_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&_nc_ht=scontent-lga3-1.xx&oh=b544b7a927dee3c1ae4e7200873de833&oe=5D694B8A)

Updated the top post schedule with the Zombies tour dates.

Playing to an audience already primed to heard "Odessey & Oracle" in full will presumably make it easier for Brian/Al/Blondie to go "deep" on the setlist. Let's see what we actually get from "Surf's Up". I would imagine the title track and "'Til I Die" are the most obvious. Would be nice to see Brian's band cut loose on "Lookin' at Tomorrow", and maybe we'll get "Long Promised Road" ahead of the Brian documentary.

Let's also hope a new show format might reinvigorate Brian as well. I haven't watched/listened to the entire show, but that "Beachlife" gig a few days ago was pretty painful during Brian's portions (the other guys sounds great as always). Even cutting all of the known slack we can (first show in months, it being a "one-off" show with probably less extensive rehearsals/warmups, etc.), it's a bummer to see Brian sounding like that when, over the past couple years, it has usually been the non-Pet Sounds portion that features him in better voice and with more energy.

While the show already does lean on some leads from Darian, Matt, Al, and Blondie, it may be time, if they're inclined to continue touring, to kind of transition the tour operation into more of a "Brian Wilson Presents..." format where it's more strongly advertised that it's a bit more of a "Glenn Miller Orchestra" sort of situation, albeit with Brian in attendance and still doing a few leads here and there.

Or, maybe Brian will perk up on subsequent dates. Then again, we segue back to a bunch of "Pet Sounds" dates before this other tour starts. I guess we'll wait and see.

I hope the reviewers don't get too rough on this tour. I don't closely follow The Zombies, but I caught their TV performance recently doing "Time of the Season" and Blunstone sounded pretty warbly, with a seemingly uncontrollable excessive vibrato when having to sing old falsetto-ish lines in full-voice.

Kinda off-topic, but here is a wild article about how some shady music promoters manufactured different touring versions of the Zombies in the late 1960s after the original group appeared to have broken up for good. It's a quite entertaining read, especially if--hypothetically--you are a fan of bands whose core studio musicians seem to differ rather confusingly from their touring group.

https://www.buzzfeed.com/danielralston/the-true-story-of-the-fake-zombies-the-strangest-con-in-rock?utm_term=.soAGGAD7b#.laQJJ0WQB

It’s 2019 right..? Soooo shouldn’t 20/20 be the album that’s celebrated? But hey whatever.

Just got my ticket to the Beacon Theatre show! I’m really excited! Friends and Surf’s Up are my two favorite non-Pet Sounds/SMiLE Beach Boys albums. A tour/show like this was something I always hoped would happen, but that I never thought would actually happen.

How did you get your ticket already?

Some pre-sales for certain dates began today at 1 PM EST US. Non-presale tickets go on sale Friday I believe.

Did you need a pre-sale password?  The site for the venue in Milwaukee has an artist's presale at 10 a.m. tomorrow, but there's no such info on bw.com other than just the tour dates.

In this case I did not, although in the past I have had to use codes for these kinds of presales, yes.  The presale for the Beacon Theatre yesterday was for Chase Preferred cardmembers. There was also one for Citi cardmembers. But simply paying for the tickets with my Case Preferred card was all that was needed this time. Ticketmaster should have more information regarding presale requirements.

For those of you on social media, the Facebook event pages for the concert dates (which can be found on Brian and Al’s Facebook fan pages in their events tabs) should contain direct links to the Ticketmaster pages for said dates.

According to a Zombies fan FB  site - try ROCKHALL for presale code. Hope that works!

password for Milwaukee is Friends.  Presale started 12 minutes ago

no, thats how the song is my guy- Colin sounds the same as he always did, he has not destroyed his voice from year after year of touring....because he didnt do that

I think he did sound a little off on the Fallon performance which I think HeyJude is referring to but in general, Colin still sounds fantastic.  And the band's Hall of Fame set was pretty killer. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqQ6MdmF4LA

Nope, I caught the Fallon performance and it sounded *nothing* like the original record on Blunstone's lead vocal. I'm not trying to cast extra stones; I've listened to tons of wonky Beach Boys and solo Beach Boys live performances, going back years.

The Fallon performance appears to now be strangely difficult to find online, and I readily admit I've not yet checked other very recent performances. Perhaps the Fallon show was an anomaly.

But on Fallon, while the backing band sounded fine, Blunstone was very much struggling. It sounds like he still has plenty of tone in the lower ranges, and perhaps just can't do the falsetto-ish voicings from the old record, and therefore was singing everything full-force, full-voiced, and it sounded extremely wobbly with waaaay too much vibrato like he coudln't control it.

It was like the polar opposite of a bad Brian live show night. Where Brian will go low energy and kind of mumble out some lyrics if he's having a bad night, Blunstone was putting like a thousand times *too much* power and was completely losing control of his voice.

Anyway, I'm not passing judgment on Blunstone's overall present vocal ability. But to be clear, that Fallon performance did NOT sound like the original recording. It didn't even sound like when I heard Rod Argent sing the song himself with Ringo's band back in 2006. Argent actually sang Zombies and Argent songs all by himself on that tour and sounded great.

I picked up 2 for the Vegas show, and I'm from Vancouver, BC.  Seattle is closer but on a Monday night. Now to find a reasonable package at the end of August.

After seeing Brian's Christmas show last December, I told myself I was done.

Then he's strolling into town with the Zombies, who I've never seen, and they are playing one of my favorite albums of all-time.

Here I go again.

I just want a chance to hear the band play Surf's Up.

If I'm being honest, at this point, I'm going more for the band than Brian. Brian is basically a non-factor in his own concerts now. He's not very active, and when we saw him in November, he was
obviously suffering from excruciating back pain (why wasn't he in a wheelchair??)....have to say, the few leads he did during the Christmas portion were actually good, but it was more like, "Oh...Brian's here!" than "a Brian Wilson concert." I know this sounds terrible, but I'm convinced the main reason he's still touring is the access to steakhouses while on the road. He's said time and time again that he wants to continue touring, but he...doesn't really do much in the concerts any more. (And I will never be convinced that Brian doesn't want to be touring. History proves that if he truly doesn't want to do something, he doesn't. The exception: getting away from Landy...who was his legal guardian and likely threatened him with institutionalization if he tried to escape.)

I'm really upset that Wondermints technically no longer exist, so this is the only way I'll get to see those guys together. Still kicking myself for not flying out to LA for the Knitting Factory show back in 2002.

Al and Blondie are both great. Amazing how much intact Al's voice is after all these decades! Blondie steals the show. I know some people hate that, but man, he brings such energy!

Having said all that....okay, I guess Brian *is* at least a bit of a factor. When I became a fan, it was during a time that except for very rare one-offs, it was unheard of for Brian to be on stage. I resigned myself to the knowledge that...I'd never get to see him. Even when 1999 happened, I was convinced that it was the only time I'd ever get to see him -- after the Beacon Theater show, I said out loud, "There's NO WAY he'll ever agree to do this again!" Fact is, i got deep into my fandom thinking I'd never see Brian...but man, I'm taking every opportunity I can to see him while I can. Yeah, on his best nights lately he's mediocre performance-wise, but he needs to know his fans love him.

And I'll give him a standing ovation for "God Only Knows." I was lucky enough to hear it the only *truly* acceptable way -- with Carl singing it -- live only one time, but damned if that ain't an ideal song.

Quick Query,
My wife has so graciously let me know about Brian coming to Dayton ohio with one catch. I am disabled and cant drive and I wounderd if anyone coming from Cincy<I live in Springdale> if I could catch a ride< nbe more than happy to pay for gas>
Thanks
Lad

God, this. I've only seen him once, but there was something electric and magical about watching all the audience lose their mind over just seeing him onstage and yelling, "We love you!" and giving standing ovations after everything. I FEEL IT. It's such an honor to get to be a part of that.

I'm going to hold out hope that shaking up the setlist to this extent (Friends, Surf's Up deep cuts) will give Brian some extra juice on this tour. But either way... I'll be there!

I originally posted this in the livestream topic but I'll switch it because discussion has moved over here:

Just going to add my random two cents.  Please don't anyone take this as I'm attacking Brian; I love the man and his music and talents just like the rest of you, and I know much less of what he's been through (compared to the rest of you) because I haven't bought/read as many books yet.

I went to see Brian, Al, and Blondie perform Pet Sounds in 2017.  I knew Brian's vocals wouldn't be anything like the 60's of course, but I think I was expecting something on par with 2012.  As I'm still diving head first, I heard a lot of new songs (for me) that I loved...my first dive into Wild Honey started here.  I was initially lukewarm on Pet Sounds (other than the hits), but it's growing on me.  Obviously I was somewhat disappointed and saddened, because although I know we've heard to the contrary, but other than a couple of songs, he sounds like he doesn't want to be there.  "God Only Knows" (either from that show or what I've heard on YouTube around that time) made me extremely sad...does anyone think Brian's decline could connect to the fact that the full band isn't touring?  It sounds stupid, I know, but he was pretty engaged from what I've been able to hear on the C50 live album and from various clips on YouTube.  On the other hand, Al impressed me as expected.  I wasn't as initially happy with Blondie, but warmed up.  Same with Matt.  When I listened to the Wild Honey album and Let Him Run Wild, I was shocked.  I had liked Foskett more before, but now I had switched to Matt.  If I'm right, I had just learned about California Saga shortly before my show, thinking it was Cool Cool Water, and let's just say the real Cool Cool Water was a shock to hear, but I loved it (California Saga).  That song just does something to me.  Beach Boys + a country vibe?  Yes please.   The only thing that disappointed me with Al was that he refused in a kind of harsh way to sign my original 1966 cover of Pet Sounds.  Maybe that was a venue thing though?  I hope so because he's supposedly been fairly courteous.  Maybe he wasn't happy that he wasn't allowed to sign things:?

EDIT: Oh and watching a bit of this show (livestream) last night didn't help.

Because of Brian's vocals, and the price, my family has been trying to persuade me from going if Brian's still going to be "detached."   I know he's gone through a lot, but I really enjoyed seeing Al (and can't see him because I'll be on vacation when he comes), and my interest has really been piqued by this new Brian/Al/Blondie/Zombies tour.  Not that I really listen to the Zombies (other than She's Not There), but the idea of Surf's Up cuts, Friends cuts, and other deep cuts makes me want to make the drive to NYC in September.  Ok, tirade over.

It's not billed as a 50th anniversary tour.  And he's not playing "Friends" in full.  It's just letting people know what to expect.

Like a lot of people here I am a Brian fan first and a Beach Boy fan second. Over the years , for me, Brian could do no wrong. I've made excuses for him, tried to explain it away or just laughed it off. However between the unusual vocals for Pet Sounds, The Christmas tour, Beach Life, and various other shows I think what I am seeing is sad. What the answer is I don't know, I just don't like what I am hearing. At this point Brian's voice is truly toast and at almost 77 years I don't think it's coming back.  I think Hey Jude said that these shows should be billed as something like "Brian Wilson presents the music of the Beach Boys " just to show that Brian is more of a host than a participant. To me, because I love Brian, what's going on now is embarrassing.

While the band has pleasantly surprised us with the setlist in the past, I think it's good to keep in mind that there probably aren't going to be a TON of Friends/Surf's Up tracks we haven't seen on recent tours.

It's a double-billed show, so the Brian set will already be likely a bit shorter than his longer setlists of the past. I'd guess we're looking at 25-30 songs rather than 32 to 35, etc. The Zombies are doing the full O&O album plus presumably some other stuff.

Brian will undoubtedly be doing his standard setlist of recent years, with some things switched out for Friends/Surf's Up. But they've already had "Wake the World" and "Busy Doin' Nothin'" in the setlist recently (though "BDN" probably not since 2015). They've been doing "Feel Flows" for a few years now.

I'm guessing we'll probably see from Friends, "Wake the World", "Busy Doin' Nothin'", possibly "Meant for You" and "Friends", and *maybe* one other track ("Be Here in the Morning"?).

And then for "Surf's Up", I'd imagine we'd get "Feel Flows", "Surf's Up", maybe "'Til I Die", possibly "Lookin' at Tomorrow" from Al (rehearsed by Brian's band in 2014), maybe "Long Promised Road" in light of it having been re-recorded for the upcoming documentary, and/or maybe one other surprise ("Take a Load" or "Don't Go Near" or maybe "...Tree.")

But I don't see them adding more than 3-5 total songs from both albums that haven't already been in the setlist recently. They're probably facing a 90-minute-ish setlist that will undoubtedly include at least 15 to 20 songs that are always locked in.

Same.

I know what you're saying, but hey, no issue here. That would be a pretty amazingly cool run of deep cuts. 

Looking at recent setlists, including the most recent “non-Pet Sounds/Christmas Album” shows, as a basis for an ongoing setlist, and keeping in mind it’s a double-billed tour with the Zombies, as well as remembering the “core” songs they always do, I’d guess this Friends/Surf’s Up-infused setlist will look something vaguely like this:

1.   California Girls
1.   Dance Dance Dance
2.   I Get Around
3.   Shut Down
4.   Little Deuce Coupe
5.   Surfer Girl
6.   Don’t Worry Baby
7.   Meant for You
8.   Friends
9.   Wake the World
10.   Busy Doin’ Nothin’
11.   California Saga: California
12.   Darlin’
13.   ‘Til I Die
14.   Surf’s Up
15.   Lookin’ at Tomorrow (A Welfare Song)
16.   Long Promised Road
17.   Feel Flows
18.   Wild Honey
19.   Sail on Sailor
20.   Do It Again
21.   Wouldn’t It Be Nice
22.   Sloop John B.
23.   God Only Knows
24.   Good Vibrations
25.   All Summer Long
26.   Help Me Rhonda
27.   Barbara Ann’
28.   Surfin’ USA
29.   Fun Fun Fun
30.   Love and Mercy

we got the tickets and a little excited. I try to keep my expectations pretty low<I saw him xmas of 2016 in cincy and he was so much better than expected> I almost didnt want to go but you never know if you get the chaNCE AGAIB.  I wish The beach boys were playing close because I like what the group jas begun<saying a lot because I use to be argntly against Mike and his group> We got a family friend to take me and it will be fun introduing him to Pet Sounds> The Zombies I could do without but it could be worse.

I wonder if some of these Friends/Surf's Up songs will appear in the Pet Sounds shows too. I hope so, considering I'm seeing what appears to be the last Pet Sounds show ... of 2019.

Gosh i'm so sick of Brian doing these 4 songs in a row:
1.   Dance Dance Dance
2.   I Get Around
3.   Shut Down
4.   Little Deuce Coupe

Al sounds great on the car songs I know but those are two Al leads that could be used on something better, I Get Around you have to play I get that but Brian went years without playing Deuce Coupe and Shut Down. Dance Dance Dance seems  more unnecessary to me, I know it was Top 10 and i'm essentially removing 3 well known songs but come on leave those songs to Mike's greatest hit jukebox lol

baseball95,
I definitely understand where you're coming from. In fact, before I read your comment I was preparing to post that I wish Dance, Dance, Dance would be swapped out for something else.

I completely understand Brian playing I Get Around. His first number one, and more than that, Brian flexing his songwriting/production muscles at a time when The Beatles had just "invaded". At a time when most American acts were cowering to or copying The Beatles, Brian was doing his own thing, and totally progressing. I'd almost be shocked to see a BW show without I Get Around.

As for Deuce Coupe and Shut Down, they can feel really inconsequential and like filler in the greater context of BW's career. I'm not the first person to say this, so I can't take credit for the idea, but the way I see it, is Brian must like playing Rock N Roll, feel like a teenager again, which was something he didn't get to do a lot of during his career with The BBs. He quit touring so early on, and of course had struggles with touring in the 70's and 80's. His solo career has been his first chance, when you think about it, for him to play his songs, comfortably, under his own conditions. Playing those car songs sure looked like fun in the 60's and Bri probably includes them in there cause he gets a kick out of playing them. Either that, or he and his team have deemed them necessary crowd pleasers, which is a nice pivot to Dance, Dance, Dance.

I dig Dance, Dance, Dance. It has a great bassline and it's a totally fun song. But given the potential tight setlist we'll be getting with the double booking, I would like to see Dance, Dance, Dance swapped out with something else. That doesn't mean it needs to be replaced with a deep cut or anything heavy, but maybe just rotate it with some other rockers. Just to keep things fresh. Even Mike has switched songs like It's OK, Farmer's Daughter, Still Cruisin, Good To My Baby, etc around during his equivalent "getting the crowd warmed up with the fun songs" part of the show. Some songs I'd be happy to hear instead, that could still work in that context are Hawaii, Be True, Surf City, Catch A Wave... you get the point, other classic crowd pleasers to warm the audience up, I'm growing a little tired of DDD. Although, if BW personally really likes playing it I'm fine with it staying.

It's funny how Mike still gets criticized for being the traveling jukebox when his and Brian's setlists are getting increasingly similar, with Mike's actually having a little more variety. I understand the accusation in 1999, when Mike was playing "Duke of Earl" while Brian was playing "The Night Was So Young". Things have clearly changed since then. We now have BW shows with only one solo BW song and BBs shows with 3 or 4 ML solo songs, who woulda thunk :lol? Personally, I'm fine with Mike sprinkling in multiple solo songs, and I'd be fine with BW doing the same.

That's a very good point, the "Mike's greatest hit jukebox" was more to keep the masses happy who still feel this is the case in order to get my point across haha. But you're 100% right Mike's setlists have gotten deeper and more in depth. The double billing is certainly going to keep the setlist around 30 or so. I don't get why Brian will do Honkin' or Night Was So Young for 5 shows and then cut it, that's been a few years back but still hasn't come back, I think Blondie on Long Promised Road might be interesting, I wonder if he might be on the stage for more or all of the show, I still don't understand why he isn't on stage for the whole show, still makes me mad.

Yep, I certainly wouldn't mind seeing other songs subbed out. I was just putting together a realistic setlist, and they've been doing variations on that dance/car-centric opening run of songs for a good four or five years now.

I think the frustrating part is that they won't deviate more on the non-Brian leads even when those other singers, by all appearances and indications, would gladly change it up and do other stuff. I don't think Al would mind singing "Susie Cincinnati" or "Lookin' at Tomorrow" and drop "Shut Down", etc.

Al is finally doing solo club gigs, which is great. But his "Storytellers" format, length of shows, and three-piece band is making it difficult to bust a ton of rarities out.

I think they should strike some sort of balance and do stuff like give Al "Heroes and Villains" to sing, and maybe go back to Blondie singing the bridge on "Surfer Girl" like they experimented with awhile back for a few shows.

And/or, let Blondie/Matt/Darian/Al do a song or two or three solo or with a two or three-piece or something.

The first Brian Wilson show I went to, Brian introduced Imagination with something along the lines of "Here's a song called Imagination, I don't like to play it, but they told me I should anyways."

They might do Feet as they both sang lead on that . DGNTW is another potential

I used to think Brian was being talked into doing the oldies, but now I think maybe he just doesn't have the energy and attention to focus on newer music.

Regarding Brian doing the “meat and potatoes” stuff, the “oldies”, I’ll reiterate what I’ve said in the past.

Understanding why Brian may do those songs requires some context, both in terms of the band and Brian’s history, and the history of Brian’s solo touring since 1998/99.

First and foremost, Brian does the car songs/oldies because they’re also HIS songs. For all the deep cuts and focus on esoteric, post-surf/car songs in Brian’s shows over the years (more on that in a moment), it has to be remembered that Brian doesn’t hate his old songs. They’re all HIS songs, and he is proud of “Shut Down” and “Little Deuce Coupe” too, and so on.

Around 2007-ish when Brian started leaning a bit more into some of those oldies, some fans seemed taken aback. But I pointed out back then as well as now that, certainly as of the mid-2000s, many fans had probably seen the touring Beach Boys over the years sing those songs more times than Brian had, and certainly more times than Brian had performed them in concert. For Brian, singing those car songs was relatively new and novel. And again, his shows have always been mainly a presentation of his music, his songs. Which leads me to this salient point:

I think some people may have a slightly skewed view of why and how Brian developed his setlists when he went out on tour in 1999. From the fan perspective, there was an up-to-that-point rare and refreshing focus on deeper cuts and non-hits, etc. But I don’t think Brian developed his setlists as if he was setting out to hone in on deep cuts. I think Brian was just doing songs he liked, songs he wanted to do. That selection just so happened to be a mixture of some well-known tracks/hits, and also some stuff that was less common or never heard over the years in Beach Boys concerts. It may be that some of the backing band members helped to suggest deep cuts with more an eye towards focusing more on that stuff and less on oldie hits.

But I think Brian just looks at all of the stuff as his catalog of songs. Why shouldn’t he lay claim to “Shut Down” and “Little Deuce Coupe” and “Catch a Wave”, and so on? They’re his songs.

In terms of where the setlist is at in 2019, I know there are other factors as well. We have some comments from band members that Brian isn’t into singing the verbose tracks these days like “Surf’s Up” and “Busy Doin’ Nothin’.” Also, they’re selling “Pet Sounds” and “Greatest Hits” shows to promoters, and those types of shows surely leave less room to start whipping out a ton of rarities. Additionally, I’m sure there’s a bit of just keeping the ball rolling and path of a least resistance and all of that, it’s easier to keep things well-oiled if the setlist doesn’t change a ton from night to night.

I must agree with the sentiment that the oldies make for a better experience when distributed evenly throughout the show.

What I find great about the 1973-75 shows is how they would throw in a "crowd pleaser" oldie every 4 songs or so. Little Deuce Coupe, 4 newer songs, Surfer Girl, 4 newer songs, Catch A Wave, 4 newer songs, etc.

It meant that each oldie had an impact and kept the show going at a very pleasant pace. The C50 shows suffered from having all the oldie hits clumped together in the first set. At some point the sound of the early songs become monotonous. This is especially the case if they play the oldies by theme with 4 consecutive car songs followed by 4 consecutive surfing songs.

The C50 setlist was paced just fine as far as I could tell, mainly because it was such a long setlist, so there were always more hits to come. The shortest shows at the beginning of the tour were 42-43 songs. By  mid-tour they were up to 46 or so, and of course they infamously and mind-blowingly just decided to do *all 61* songs at the Royal Albert Hall for the penultimate show of the tour.

I personally wouldn't really want like 4 or 5 car songs peppered through the setlist. Not so much because I'm a fan of the medley-style format of stringing them all together, but more because it's jarring for other parts of the show to shift back to those car songs.

They still did a ton of "hits" in the second set on C50, moving "California Girls" near the end and also of course all of the classic show-enders.

In C50, it also felt like most of the first set was Mike's playground (surf songs/car songs/early 60s covers etc), and the beginning of the second set was Brian's (Heroes and Villains, Sail On Sailor, Pet Sounds tracks and a few deep cuts). Which was kind of a cool balance.

MyDrKnowsItKeepsMeCalm,

That's a really cool observation I never made. Stylistically it was pretty obvious that the first set was more upbeat hits and second set more artistic stuff, but The Beach Boys had so much overlap of artistic songs and hit songs, that the lines are hard to see. Anyway, I think the observation of each half catering to one party (Mike and Brian) makes a lot of sense, in a not to piss anyone off way, or a to keep everyone happy way if you're an optimist. Clearly, if that was the case and purpose, it didn't work, with the tour ending with lots of feelings of dissatisfaction.

Although, we might be getting into the "Mike is the car guy VS Brian is the Pet Sounds guy" territory, due to the fact that its becoming increasingly obvious that Brian prefers to play the hits over the deeper material too. After all, like Hey Jude has said, they are his songs! They were great hit songs that he wrote that were totally unique, and quite frankly changed Rock as a whole. It's easy to look at the car songs as simple, but those songs are pretty advanced- specifically Deuce Coupe and I Get Around, harmonically speaking. To put the V-ii change in a rock n roll song was amazing (Little Deuce Coupe) and I Get Around has very clever modulations and borrows chords from other keys by playing with what we anticipate to be major or minor... Didn't mean to get so off topic, but I feel like the car songs are something for Brian to be extremely proud of, and they're certainly crowd pleasers.  :bw

A few years ago I saw Brian singing "Little Honda" and he looked to be really into it.

Here’s a mindblower... Brian’s been a touring solo artist almost as long as he was a Beach Boy and if we’re being technical about it, longer

Oh, Billy, thanks for noticing this. It gives some perspective.

Brian will probably continue to do oldies that the "non-niche fans" (? is that a thing?) lap up and dance to. They were still good songs. I'm afraid, as a long-time niche fan, I have fun watching the crowd enjoying those songs and relish the rarities. We'll probably get a mix as long as he chooses to tour.

That’s one of the reasons why I’m excited about this Zombies tour. With the idea that Friends and Surfs Up are being pushed, it’ll be great listening and possible increased exposure for that side of Brian due to the increased attention on the Zombies with them being inducted into the Hall of Fame

I'd say, being as liberal as possible in counting the years, Brian really only spent about 10-11 years as a full-time member of the touring band. 1961-1965, 1976-1982, and 2012. There are other appearances sprinkled in there, especially the random appearances between 1983 and 1990. But he also wasn't even always there in the late 70s and early 80s (nor of course '65).

We'd have to look at Ian and Jon's "In Concert" book to start counting the dates, but I'm curious if Brian has literally been on stage for more total solo shows than Beach Boys shows.

But certainly, in terms of number of years logged, he has logged more years as a solo touring artists than as a member of the touring Beach Boys.

Just saw on Facebook that Brian added a date on 9/27 at the Palace in Waterbury.  I wasn't planning to go to see this tour but now it's 10 minutes from my house .  I just don't think I can pass that up.

Hoping for more east coast dates as this is fresh, exciting, and THE ZOMBIES! He'll be 20mins from me at the Hippodrome for the *second* final performance of Pet Sounds at the very same venue he played the final performance in Baltimore for three years ago  ::)  In 2016, it was near sold out...now, nearly a week out from the show it is less than half sold. I've been watching, wondering if prices will be slashed as the date approaches...but when there are no seats under $100, I can't justify a fourth Pet Sounds performance from Brian in current form.

I did this for Brian's Christmas show. I ended up getting a 3rd row ticket for $12 about an hour before the show.

Notated on the top post that the June dates are postponed. We obviously don't know what's next, so I'll just leave those dates in red until or if something changes.

Are ticket refunds only available if the show is ultimately cancelled? What's the standard procedure?

I don't have any specific info about these dates, but generally once a show is postponed, refunds are made available. My guess is they'll either offer refunds to those who don't want to wait to see if the show is rescheduled, or they'll just refund everyone.

Considering they apparently nixed the June dates literally at the last second, I'd imagine they don't know what's going to happen going forward and thus probably won't be rescheduling any dates any time soon.

This news story indicates refunds will be offered at point of purchase, and, not surprisingly, no rescheduled dates are available:

https://www.sevendaysvt.com/LiveCulture/archives/2019/06/06/brian-wilson-cancels-burlington-discover-jazz-festival-performance

The message from Brian:

Dear friends,
It is with great regret that I need to postpone my upcoming June tour.
It is no secret that I have been living with mental illness for many decades. There were times when it was unbearable but with doctors and medications I have been able to live a wonderful, healthy and productive life with support from my family, friends and fans who have helped me through this journey.
As you may know in the last year or so I’ve had 3 surgeries on my back. The surgeries were successful and i’m physically stronger than i’ve been in a long time.
However, after my last surgery i started feeling strange and it’s been pretty scary for awhile. I was not feeling like myself. Mentally insecure is how I’d describe it. We're not sure what is causing it but i do know that it’s not good for me to be on the road right now so I’m heading back to Los Angeles.
I had every intention to do these shows and was excited to get back to performing. I've been in the studio recording and rehearsing with my band and have been feeling better. But then it crept back and I’ve been struggling with stuff in my head and saying things I don’t mean and I don’t know why. Its something i’ve never dealt with before and we cant quite figure it out just yet.
I’m going to rest, recover and work with my doctors on this.
I’m looking forward to my recovery and seeing everyone later in the year.
The music and my fans keep me going and I know this will be something I can AGAIN overcome.
Love & Mercy,
Brian Wilson

Here is the message I received about the Burlington, Vermont show. 

Brian Wilson Cancellation

 

We have received news that Brian Wilson has cancelled all upcoming tour dates due to mental health issues. Therefore, his performance scheduled for Sunday, June 9, 2019 is cancelled. We wish Wilson a speedy recovery and hope to present him at a future Burlington Discover Jazz Festival.
   

All tickets purchased for this show will be refunded. Please contact the Box Office at 802-86-FLYNN (802-863-5966) with your order number and credit card information handy so that we may confirm your refund details. Tickets need not be returned to the Flynn Box Office. All tickets will be refunded to the original method of purchase. Cash sales will be refunded by a check sent to the account address on record. We will be processing refunds over the next several days; please allow a week to ten days for the credit to post to your account or to receive a refund check.
 
We apologize for the inconvenience. If you have any questions, feel free to inquire in person at the Box Office at 153 Main Street in Burlington or by calling 802-86-FLYNN (802-863-5966).

Wow. The Hippodrome website clearly states cancelled and that refunds are being given. I just checked the tickets again this morning...only about 40% of the tickets had sold for this event. I never bothered looking at other dates and how they were selling, but one would assume the tour had similar sales across the board. I wonder if that was discouraging to Brian and company? I'm not saying they cancelled because they HAD to. I believe every word of what is written by Brian, but I have to wonder if perhaps the lack of enthusiasm shown through ticket sales contributed to pre-existing mental and physical instability and contributed to putting him in a bad place? I apologize if that sounds insensitive, but I know Paul McCartney always says his biggest fear to this day is people getting up and walking out of his show. The audience still means everything to these guys when they are out there, Brian doesn't have to be doing this. I can't say he's always good at showing it, but I do believe he tours because he wants to for physical and mental stimulation, as well as the mutual satisfaction between audience and performer. Anyway, I've seen Brian on C50, Jeff Beck Tour, No Pier Pressure Tour, and three times on the Pet Sounds tour...and never have I been able to leisurely browse the seating chart less than a week before the show and hand pick seats wherever I please. I feel it's a factor somehow.

Praying Brian finds the peace and inspiration needed to carry on with full vigor. I hope he's well enough for The Zombies tour...that idea sounds refreshing.

June 11th rescheduled for October 2nd. All June 11th tickets will be honored. Full refunds available through July 15th.

https://www.app.com/story/entertainment/events/summer-guide/2019/06/06/brian-wilson-beach-boys-pet-sounds-tour/3172883002/ (https://www.app.com/story/entertainment/events/summer-guide/2019/06/06/brian-wilson-beach-boys-pet-sounds-tour/3172883002/)

I'm actually not surprised if ticket sales were really slow this time around. Not trying to sound insensitive, as I love Brian, the Band, and all he brings. But after attending the last Pet Sounds show, when Brian really pretty much spoke the words to the songs without really singing, it was a big disappointment. It just left a lot to be desired, and I know many others may have felt the same way. It was almost saturated with the Pet Sounds performances, on and on and on, and I think th word about the actual performance may have gotten out. That being said, I hate to see Brian ill, but the last couple of tours, he just seemed off, and in pain, so I hope he heals and is happy. And if he never tours again, I've seen him so many times, and he's brought me and so many others so much joy, his job with regard to touring may e finished, but will never be forgotten. Be Well Brian.

Ticket sales may have been slow at other venues (e.g. Hippodrome), but that June 11th show was nearly sold out.

Updated the top post schedule with the rescheduled date.

I still think it's fair to wonder if some of the future (or any) of these 2019 dates will be able to go on. Brian's situation sounds serious; are they really going to be back up and running in two months?

In any event, I'll keep up any changes to the tour schedule updated so long as tour dates remain in effect.

Agreed, it seems extremely optimistic that this can be fixed in two months. Even if Brian does show improvement in the short term, tours like these seem like the last thing a doctor would recommend for stability and recovery.

With that said, I wonder if the belief that the dates would be rescheduled and not cancelled was helpful for Brian to make the decision to step back at all.

I am glad he is putting his health first.

From Facebook...

"Today, I read a message shared by my cousin Brian. My heart is swollen with love, compassion, concern, and thoughtful well wishes for a speedy recovery. Brian, you have fought bravely your battle with mental illness, I have no doubts that you will triumph and move gracefully past this speed bump. Let the music that lives deeply inside you carry you to your highest beautiful self, I will carry you in music every night we perform. I am cheering for you!”

I Love You Cuz and I hope and pray to see you soon.

Peace & Love
Cousin Mike"

Looks like Al gave an interview to promote the tour that was published the day before the announcement. From the sound of it, the interview took place prior to any rehearsals, so the interview may be a bit older.

https://www.unionleader.com/nh/arts_and_ent/music/beach-boys-al-jardine-on-seminal-pet-sounds-album-and/article_f65cfcc1-97b9-5635-aede-c686dcae3b51.html

In classic Al fashion, he can't remember the title to "I Know There's an Answer" during the interview....

Total speculation but could tour insurance payouts be a reason for the postponement rather than cancellation at this stage? Surely a postponement is less expensive at this point and probably the preferred option.

Considering Brian was probably going to be the opening act this would be the ideal opportunity to try something I suggested a month ago. The Brian Wilson Band With Special Guests Al Jardine and Blondie Chaplin.

I love the Zombies but they were definitely the opening act not Brian, even on their reunion tours they’ve only filled venues in the hundreds not the thousands like Brian has. If anything they were co headliners but I’m pretty confident in saying Brian wasn’t the opening act. That being said, i love your idea, give Brian a rest and go on like you said. This isn’t the best example given how things ended but before Gregg Allman died his band toured as the Gregg Allman band without Gregg for almost a year before Gregg ultimately passed.

I would have no problem seeing the BW Band with Al and Blondie, but not sure the more casual fan, or many others, would feel the same. Tuf call either way, butI'd go see them for sure.

Fair enough. I thought the Zombies having just been inducted in the HOF may have got the second slot.
Given that you basically have two groups primed to go for what essentially is a short tour (one month), there probably isn’t a lot to loose. Both acts were promoting songs/album from 1968 and that still stands. Brian wasn’t touring them in 1968 anyway so nothings changed really.
I cannot find that Paul McCartney quote from years ago about Brian’s band. “Everyone knows they are the best in the business” or similar. Attach that to the marketing and people would be still interested.

In the press release it stated that the Zombies would open with a few hits and then "Odyssey and Oracle", followed by Brian Wilson with Beach Boys hits, deep cuts from '68, and solo tracks etc.

If Brian couldn't do the fall leg, it would be amazing to see The Zombies backed by the Brian Wilson Band, and maybe let Alan and a couple of guys do an opening set of early Beach Boy surf songs in a tight combo style. Refunds could be offered, but that's a show I'd go see.

The Zombies are their own self contained band.

And a damn good one at that

Absosmurfly! We saw them play Oddesey & Oracle in 2017 and 2018 (first half of the show was the current Zombies lineup, second half was O & O with the current lineup plus Chris and Hugh, Chris’ wife on background vocals, and Darian on Moog, mellotron, vocals) and saw the current lineup do a regular Zombies show a few months later.  Rod is jaw droppingly awesome on piano and B3 and Colin’s voice is still sweet and strong. Hopefully this tour will still go on because I think many BB fans would love seeing O & O being played live.

How about this award winning journalism!

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/entertainment/celebrity/beach-boys-cancel-summer-tour-but-vancouver-pne-summer-concert-still-on/ar-AACAoiR?li=AAggNb9

That's absolutely atrocious and from a major media outlet. Reporter and editor should be fired. I mean, what possible excuse can you have for running that piece???

(face plant) :thud

The ticket office ended up charging my card again for a ticket, rather than refunding me.

Both Brian’s site and The Zombies still have links to Live Nation and Ticketmaster for the 68 tour. No disclaimers yet so a pretty big call whether or not the 68 tour proceeds.

Yes, I have seen the Zombies three times and are well aware of how they operate. I'm just speculating on how an extra-special tour could be salvaged of a concerning and disappointing circumstance.

From Facebook. Seems all the summer dates are off:
"Brian, Melinda and the Wilson family would like to thank all of you for your wonderful notes and good wishes. Brian looks forward to feeling better and seeing you again this Fall. Love & Mercy."

Might they just be referring to rescheduled dates for fans who had tickets to June shows?

There's no way they would try to continue the booking without Brian in attendance. However much we'd love to see Al, Matt, Darian, etc. carry on with the show, and however much an audience would still enjoy a show without Brian there, if Brian didn't show up to a "Brian Wilson" ticketed show, people would complain regardless of how much they may or may not be missing or gaining. Even if the show would be better handing more leads off to Al, etc., and even if a show with Brian there might have him only minimally active on stage, the outcry would be much, much stronger if he wasn't there. It would maybe be different if Brian had formed a band under some band name with Al and Matt and everybody.

I know for years now people have thrown around an idea of a "Brian Wilson Band" tour continuing on without Brian at some point. I'm not saying it couldn't happen, but it would require some expert promotion and clarification as to what such a band/tour would constitute. The way to start such an enterprise (essentially an authorized tribute show) would *not* be to use it as a replacement for actual "Brian Wilson" shows where he was expected to be there.

Sue 'em Mike!

Agreed, that would be a non-starter. I certainly understand the wish to have the tour continue, but Brian has built up a considerable brand over the years as a solo artist and something like the scenario described would damage it much more than just postponing some shows.

I wouldn't even worry so much about Brian's "brand" being directly damaged. It would just be more of a legal/PR issue for the promoters, venues, and the people still in the band. After Al was unfairly maligned (in my opinion) back in 1999 with his Family & Friends band, I certainly don't think he needs to see any similar stuff coming up trying to go out in Brian's place.

Considering I just caught quickly in passing a *huge* PBS special devoted to a Pink Floyd tribute band, I have to think there would be a market for a "Brian Wilson Orchestra" sort of show, especially with his celebrated backing band plus some extra other Beach Boys. I recognize part of how a Pink Floyd tribute band can be so successful is that Pink Floyd hasn't doing 150 shows per year, every year, for 50 years. There's more thirst for live Floyd music than BBs given how much Mike and Brian have been touring especially lately. There were a couple years there where Brian and Mike combined were probably doing 250-300 shows per year.  Nevertheless, I think a "Brian Wilson Orchestra" show with Al and Blondie (and maybe Dave) plus Brian's band could book venues larger than the clubs Al's solo tour is doing.

I'm not trying to sidestep the prospect of Brian bouncing back to do more shows. But even if he tours several more times, what happens after is something worth chewing on. A few folks have said some of Brian's band have been loosely pitched this scenario, and it sounds like some would go for it while others maybe not.

Is it too late for the Zombies to find another act to share the  show with? Ray Davies? Dave Davies? Denny Laine? Paul McCartney?

Brian Wilson was apparently the headliner, so I don't think they would be likely to keep the bookings and replace Brian with another act.

However, I'd have to guess Zombies management is having some discussions with Brian's management at this point, because they *could* look to reschedule an alternate tour (smaller venues by themselves, or pairing up with someone else) in order to not just be out of work for that month when they anticipated working.

Personally I think The Zombies with 4 original members reunited was the draw for many this tour.
Simple solution at this late stage. Same venues, Make it clear it’s Brian’s Band with Al and Blondie, The Zombies headline.Refunds offered if that’s not acceptable.

I wasn't closely following the tour, but folks have said the plan was that Brian was headlining. He was at the top of the poster. I think Brian has generally played larger venues on his own than the Zombies have played on their own. I'm sure they were both draws, hence the pairing.

But, while anything is possible, I would doubt they would or could just do the tour without Brian there. A lot of people buy tickets and never give it another thought until they go to the show. There would invariably be people who show up and hear Brian isn't there and ask for refunds. Promoters/venues don't want that happening literally as the show is starting; they can't sell the tickets at that point to someone else.

If someone can provide some good examples of a solo artist touring under their own name proceeding to keep tour bookings but while sending their band without themselves, I'd be interested to see.

Most *bands* won't do shows if a core/key member can't do the gig. The BBs used to do shows if any one of Mike, Carl, or Al missed a show, and that was a pretty unique exception based on their relentless touring.

Yes, having Al and Blondie on the bill *seems* to make it an easier prospect to continue on without Brian. Us big fans dig Al and Blondie, and we're aware that Al, Blondie, Matt, and Darian vocally carry some of the leads for Brian already. But trust me, it's a big difference when it's an "Al Jardine" show. Brian books theaters and other venues in the several thousand per show on his own. Al Jardine books clubs that seat a few hundred at the most. I would imagine Blondie would be a similar or smaller draw.

To be clear, I've been wishing for years to just see Al front Brian's band and do a setlist of deep cuts and Al-centric tracks, with Matt and Darian and Blondie also singing. Yes, essentially a Brian show without Brian, with perhaps a different setlist focus. But look at Al's history of trying to book gigs on his own. "Jardine & Chaplin" can't book Radio City Music Hall.

I suppose they could reformat the tour to a "Zombies" tour with the Brian-less band as more of an "opening act" sort of thing. But Brian's band is too expensive for what would be a surely much smaller profit split, and you'd still have the problem of people getting a show vastly different from what they paid for.

They can cancel and then re-book new shows and attempt to do anything they want of course.

My guess is that either these shows go on as planned if Brian can do them, or the shows will be canceled and the Zombies will try to pair up with another act to do the package tour, and will have to start from scratch selling tickets. Which is why I'd imagine they probably don't want to and/or can't wait two more months just to find out whether the tour might happen. But we shall see of course.

HeyJude wrote’If someone can provide some good examples of a solo artist touring under their own name proceeding to keep tour bookings but while sending their band without themselves, I'd be interested to see.’

TBH I haven’t seriously classed Brian as a ‘solo’ touring artist since 2011 given the leads he has given away, but I see your point.
The only comparison off the top of my head was a group. AC/DC losing Brian Johnson and having Axl Rose take over lead. A much bigger tour financially.

Don’t get me wrong, common sense would be to cancel, and if it was just Brian and his own band that would be the likelihood. But here we have a tour reasonably advanced logistics wise. A second band on pretty much a double bill rather than a headliner. Both were promoted as playing works from 1968.

Between the 2 groups I am guessing we have 6 members in their late 70s. This was always on the cards and not to have a contingency plan would be poor management IMO.

I recall hearing about Gene Vincent having a fill in for some dates in Japan, and fans apparently not knowing he was absent:

Despite the final split of the Blue Caps and a lapsed contract with the McLemore Agency, Gene continued to tour extensively. He would either use pick-up bands or The Silhouettes whose drummer, Clayton Watson, introduced Gene to guitarist Jerry Merritt. Merritt became a close friend of Gene and the pair began to tour California and the northwest states. In the summer of 1959 Gene and Jerry took on a three week tour of Japan. Their arrival at Tokyo airport was greeted by over 10,000 ecstatic fans and similar frenzied scenes accompanied each sell-out house throughout the tour. Gene left early and Jerry impersonated Gene for the last three dates. Following their return from Japan, recording dates were arranged at the Capitol Tower for early August.

http://www.rockabillyhall.com/gvbio.html

The Gregg Allman Band toured all of 2016 while Gregg was ill without Gregg and played the same venues they originally booked. Now at this point Gregg was more and opening act/club act like Al is now but that’s still a recent example.

 Interesting, that is indeed an example I suppose. Although was Greg touring with "band" in the billed name as an artist? Brian performs just under his name, and not with any other words attached to it, which may make for a more tricky situation in how it is perceived.

Oh definitely, I think us fans realize that, especially post-C50 with Al and Blondie (and Dave in 2013) in the band, and Darian and Matt (or others) singing more leads, Brian's show has morphed from a true "solo" show as it was in 1999 and into the early 2000s into more of a "group" show. I hesitate to call it a defacto "Beach Boys" show, as Brian's show is more focused on songs he has written (he ignores most BB hits he didn't write or co-write), but it's definitely very much a "Brian Wilson Band" show, and it undeniably fills a similar segment of the marketplace as a "Beach Boys" show. So, as I've been saying, I think we as fans wouldn't see it necessarily as a deal breaker to do the gigs without Brian from a musical/lead vocal standpoint.

But, even with Brian handing off a number of leads to four other guys in his band, they've never moved to call it anything but "Brian Wilson." Most shows don't even co-bill Al (they occasionally have, although I think that has more to do with individual venues; only one ticket I've bought actually says "Brian Wilson & Al Jardine"). It's billed and sold as a "Brian Wilson" concert with "special guests" even after Al has been a full-time member for 5-6 years and plays the entire gig on stage. I would imagine they have done this not only to keep the prestige of Brian's name, but to also allow for them to be able to do shows without Al and Blondie if needed.

But they've never changed the name of the act. They didn't go out as "Wilson-Jardine-Marks" in 2013 or something.

And, not to downplay Brian's role at all, but even going all the way back to 1976, there has been some value and mystique to simply *seeing* Brian on stage in person. I think even in 2019 after he's been touring much more, many casual as well as more-than-casual-but-less-than-hardcore fans buy tickets to *see* him on stage and be in his presence.

While super hardcore Brian-centric fans have warmed to Al (and Blondie), I recall back in 1999-2000 and into the 2000s that some of those super Brian-specific fans weren't super focused on Al Jardine. They may not have gone to Al shows, and even when Al popped up in 2006/07 at some Brian shows, while *I* was stunned and pleasantly surprised, some Brian fans didn't seem to be that impressed and some were even annoyed back then that Al was taking up space on leads in the show (despite being given few leads on that tour and not being given a ton to do; at one point in the 06/07 show for "Marcella", Bennett would come up front to play guitar and Al was stuck in the side/back of the stage playing tambourine).

In any event, we have to remember that there are a good amount of casual (but not as casual as, say, much of the clientele at a Mike show) fans who buy BW tickets and would not buy the tickets if he wasn't there. It's a bummer, but I think that's how it is.

I'm sure all management factions in the BB world have given thought to scenarios where people become temporarily or permanently infirm to where they can't tour anymore. But I think the contingency is just to not book more tours if that comes to pass, or if it happens after a tour is booked, to postpone or cancel shows. Not much else they can do.

Do they have further contingencies? Probably not, for better or worse. I doubt Brian's management has a Brian-less "Brian Wilson Orchestra" fully mapped-out and ready-to-execute plan. Mike would, I can only guess, have probably given some passing thought to what happens after he's out. But that's really at that point not a Mike decision but a BRI corporate decision in terms of the BB name. I've long guessed, based on things I've heard and just my own sense, that there may be a few folks floating around these orbs who could be angling to continue with a "Beach Boys" license without any original members. But they wouldn't be lobbying hard to do so ("Hey, BRI, I'm here when the Beach Boys are all dead!"), but rather would try to just stay close to a member and make themselves as valuable as possible to that organization.

That's of course then not getting into the whole "holograms" thing which apparently is gaining popularity and has seen pretty minimal backlash from fans or critics. Mike was asked about that in an interview not too long ago, and he seemed to not be outright opposed to it.

AC/DC, Gene Vincent, and the Gregg Allman band are all interesting examples, and all different.

AC/DC switching lead singers is really a case, perhaps one of very few cases in this age, of a band treating itself the way a band would have decades ago. Meaning, invoking members as "core" members and replacing them the way Roth was replaced by Hagar, or Ozzy was replaced by Dio, etc. Meaning, whereas usually these days when a band gets a new lead singer, say with Journey or Chicago, they don't seek out a Hagar type replacement of equal stature, but instead back-fill the band with a tribute band singer or other unknown who is simply salaried. While Axl Rose was likely financially simply "salaried" for his AC/DC tours, he was more of a high profile "name" replacement. Another recent somewhat similar example would be Fleetwood Mac replacing Buckingham with Mike Campbell and Neil Finn.

The Gene Vincent example is apparently a very early-era example of a pre-internet, casual audience being unknowingly defrauded. A bit similar to the fake "Zombies" that were sent out back in the early 70s or whenever that was.

I'm not a Gregg Allmann band expert, but that example sounds the closest to what it would be like if Brian's tour continued without him. It's still a bit different, as Allmann's band has a "band" name. But, if up to that point that band included its namesake, then that would be a similar scenario.

Re: The Gene Vincent example, that kind of thing was likely easier to do back in the days before the internet, when major artists weren't as physically recognizable to a large majority of fans. There is a story in Mark Moore's book The Jan & Dean Record about a J&D show back in the 1960s where Dean for some reason, didn't show up. I don't recall the specific details, but Jan played the show, and I think had someone stand on stage and pretend to be Dean, and no one knew or cared. As I said, you could get away with that back then, but even by the 70s, people wanted the actual artists on stage. Jan himself got into trouble touring with a fake Dean, and there is also the famous example where a fake Deep Purple played a few shows in 1980 with Rod Evans, the original lead singer who hadn't been in the back since the late 1960s, and four other hired musicians, and there were lawsuits and fan backlash. Despite how little he might contribute to a show these days, its not a Brian Wilson show without Brian present. I also don't think we will ever have a Brian Wilson Orchestra type scenario. At some point in the next few years, neither Brian nor Mike will be touring, and there will probably just be a "Beach Boys" touring. I can't really see a scenario where there is a Brian Wilson Orchestra AND The Beach Boys touring separately.

I would go see a "Brian Wilson Orchestra" show, as long as they made clear that Brian wouldn't be there, and it would essentially be a "Tribute" type of show. But I'd want it to be the "original" band from 1999 to the early 2000's...which would include Scott Bennett, among the others. I know, I know....that's a very controversial thing to say or even think about.

I don't think Bennett's on-stage contribution was or is integral enough to *need* him to be on stage. The band had enough changes just in the first couple of years that I don't feel a need for a replication of that original lineup. I don't need Joe Thomas and Steve Dahl, and I think D'Amico is as good on drums as Hines or Sucherman were. I might actually prefer D'Amico. I think Lizik is a fine bassist but has never been super to my taste, so if, say, Al fronted an amalgamation of BW backing guys, I wouldn't mind him bringing along Ed Carter or something like that.

I think Al (in conjunction with maybe Blondie and/or Marks) could front a pared-down version of Brian's band that's more affordable, consisting of Al, Matt, Darian, Probyn, D'Amico, some bassist (Carter or Lizik, etc.), and maybe one more ancillary guy to play keys and/or guitar. All of Brian's guys are great, but I think a slimmed-down Al-fronted tour could work without an extra percussionist, guitarist, keyboardist, and woodwind player, especially if he did a bit more Al-centric and Brother-era material and a bit less of the Summer Days/Pet Sounds sort of stuff.

Considering how there are *numerous* off-shoot bands with ex BB/Brian/Al backing guys touring right now, I think we would absolutely see some of Brian and Mike's backing guys keep working in that field.

Whether they'd actually do a "Brian Wilson Orchestra" sort of show, I dunno. It would require permission to be billed that way.

I could easily see them forgoing having to pay out a license, and just do a "California Surf, Inc."/"Papa Doo Run Run"/"Surf City All Stars", etc. sort of thing. Those off-shoot bands right now already have Ed Carter, Bobby Figueroa, Sterling Smith, Randell Kirsch, recently Christian Love, Billy Hinsche, and Matt Jardine and Probyn Gregory when they're not out with Brian, plus Adrian Baker, and I think Bardowell and Farmer still gig in those similar circles. Foskett moonlighted with Brian and Papa Doo Run Run for a while there in the 2000s I believe.

If a licensed "Beach Boys" continued with no original members, I could easily see either a BW-licensed "orchestra" band touring, and/or a continuation of the Papa Doo Run Run-esque bands.

I'm amazed these "Papa" type bands get so many bookings when there is a licensed "Beach Boys" touring right now 150 shows per year. But much like the later era of Jan & Dean, these bands are basically for cases where you've got a fundraiser or a corporate party and can't afford the 50 or 100K or whatever it might be for Mike's band.

No Brian, no interest from me as far as a "Brian Wilson" show goes.
I'd go see Al at a solo gig though

All good points, and hopefully irrelevant if Brian recovers by the end of August.

Having said that, in hindsight perhaps in the last 5 years the tours should have been promoted as ‘Brian Wilson’s Band’?

It actually is their Facebook title.  https://m.facebook.com/Brian.Wilson.Band/

My comments on Scott are based on some YouTube videos, now no longer available unfortunately. Watching the interplay between Scott and Taylor during Marcella was part of the fun in watching it. He's also a damn good guitar player.

He's also a convicted rapist, so why are we even going down this road?

This is by no means a defense for Scott's actions. Consider the notion that video surveillance were as prevelant in the 60's-80's as it is now. Where would Mike Love and Dennis Wilson be now?

I'll just leave that there.

There's been some....iffy....stuff said about the guys from time to time, but I think this is too much RubberSoul. I personally think you are usually a great poster, but this is beyond the pale. I think at the very least we can give Mike and Denny the benefit of the doubt that they aren't rapists.

I don't think anybody who has circulated through Brian's band has been anything but a good musician and singer (in cases where they sing).

I just think, looking at this even rather dispassionately, we fans have the luxury of not having to pine for Bennett to be in the band because he was never *that* integral to the live band. I saw him many, many times with Brian. I had a few minor complaints (lodged way before all the controversy), mostly involving his penchant for egging people on to stand for the entire show, thus blocking people who didn't want to stand. I also always found his leads (e.g. "Sail on Sailor") to be extremely bland.

Similarly, Taylor Mills was a fine vocalist, but the band has done fine without her.

But I think Brian built up such a great band that they were and are able to move constituent parts in and out. Darian and Matt (and to some degree Al) may be among the most integral parts of Brian's band, and they've even pulled off excellent shows without Darian or Matt.

If like half of the band had all dropped out at once, that may have been a problem. But they've had surprisingly little turnover for a 20-year-old backing band from year to year.

So with Bennett, I think, from a slightly selfish fan perspective, we have the luxury of not having to feel like we would have a better live show if we could only ignore or get past the obviously complicated issue of whether to bring someone in that situation back.

And frankly, even if he was more integral than I feel he was, there would just be a ton of personal, professional, and logistical problems bringing him back. In most cases where someone is convicted of a felony while either "on the job" or on location for the purposes of performing a job, they would not be rehired into that position.

Read Jeff Foskett's late 90s interview about his 1990 exit from the touring Beach Boys. He *didn't* commit any crime, yet he admits he was behaving in a way that caused problems within the organization, and he was asked to leave and it took nearly 25 years before he got back in with Mike Love again.

Yeah, this angle was attempted by someone back when the Bennett story was breaking, trying to imply similar *theoretical* actions from BB members, and such a supposition is really a non-starter and tends to just blow up the whole conversation.

I don't think there's anything wrong with discussing Bennett's situation, especially as it pertains to his past work with the Brian/BB organizations, and that would also include theoreticals about the future as well. But I think the conversation has to stay rather pragmatic and sort of dispassionate.

If folks want to just argue the legal/moral issues surrounding Bennett's case and such crimes/convictions in general outside of the Brian/BB orb, it's probably best to go to the Bennett thread in the sandbox.

I continue to get emails pushing Brian's September shows. The September 27th Waterbury CT show even includes a statement that the show will not be impacted by the June cancellations. I understand why they need to keep selling tickets but man, it is kind of a weird situation.

That is a mighty block of September shows, with a lot of travel involved. Even if Brian gets to a better place in the next month or two I would have concerns whether soldiering on with the tour is the best thing to do.

I didn't call them rapists. But imagine if all their waking actions were documented as so many are today. Surely something somewhere along the checkered past for these in particular would've been highlighted in the wrong (or maybe right) light. I'd say the same for at least three quarters of the Beatles.

I think you are correct. IIRC Dennis even was arrested by the police for having a minor in his suite around '79. Maybe also for giving her drugs, but I could be confusing that with a story about Presley in '73.

Nothing against Rocker, but that is quite a accusation to make when you do not even know the actual accused.

The Brian Wilson band presents: The Al & Blondie Show

Just listen to the Al & Blondie parts of that BeachLife show.. It would be an amazing show!

...but I would like Bonfiglio instead of Matt

Matt is better filling the BBesque falsettos and other high parts as well as the Brian leads.

But Bonfiglio was good; stick him in the band too...

It just struck me...why attempt to attach Brian's name to the ensemble in terms of ownership? That's the part that gets misleading...one expect to see so-and-so's band, if it's called their band...however, if they were to do something like "Surf's Up: Remembering the Music of Brian Wilson Feat. Al Jardine & Blondie Chaplin"...that might be more sensible (although by no means concise). A title like that also maintains the "beach" theme while speaking to the likes of us crawling about here that the full catalog would be represented with later/deeper cuts. However, I don't foresee Blondie being part of something like this after Brian is no longer on the road, so perhaps it could just be coined as "...Feat. Original Beach Boy Al Jardine"...ya know, just to piss off Mike.

New dates announced for 9/23 and 9/28. For whatever it's worth, they're still booking more September shows as if he'll be back on the road.

I really don't like that title at all...sounds far too morbid. Now something  like "The Brian Wilson Orchestra" (basically like the Glenn Miller deal) would work better IMHO

We've got to take that as a good sign, right?

I guess it depends on each person's outlook. I'm sure we all hope this means whatever has gone on isn't too serious. But certainly others might feel that it would be okay for Brian to take more time off. A concern that August/September shows might be still difficult would not be unfounded.

We obviously don't know any particulars of what's going on with Brian. But it's a pretty unprecedented step that he took both in terms of why he had to postpone the shows and also the frankness of explaining why. But that tends to make some fans, who again don't know the details, worry that whatever is going on can't be addressed sufficiently in the span of only about eight weeks.

Yes.  I just meant the former, i.e. I'm hoping it means that whatever has gone on isn't too serious.  If he needs more time, by all means he should take it.  I would never suggest that he rush back onto the road.  On the contrary.  I just hope that if they're booking more shows, it means that he's doing well and hoping to be back at it. 

Honestly, it kind of pisses me off. It gives me the impression that whoever is in charge isn't taking the gravity of Brian's situation seriously.

Dude, maybe it's because Brian wants to come back earlier, and that's a good sign.

True. I think I'd feel better hearing from him personally though.

We just did though. He's the type where if his mind's made up he's going to do something regardless if those around him are saying otherwise.

Ok, better start up a 2020 Tour thread. Another date. Screw the mind demons!

https://www.musicfestnews.com/2019/06/cayamo-2020-adds-brian-wilson-and-aaron-lee-tasjan-to-lineup/

Has he made a statement since the one about why he canceled the recent shows?

Wow. Brian, Mavis Staples and Jeff Tweedy on a Cayamo Cruise. I'd swim to get to that one!

Just the one thanking everyone for their support and that he looks forward to seeing us in the fall

Don't you think it's a bit odd that a bunch of shows were suddenly canceled, with a long message from Brian explaining the situation, only for more shows to be added?

I don’t know much about mental illness but I would have thought ‘all shows are postponed until advised otherwise’ would be more appropriate. Having a set return date I would think is pressure he just shouldn’t have.

Honest question here, for anyone who wants to answer: why do people distrust Brian's current support system/Melinda so much? I ask this because, for many years, I have seen these types of posts (like Jay's above) that hint at some irresponsible/abusive power-domineering over Brian. I have gotten used to these posts, but I think we need to question the foundation of why these posts are made. What is the truth behind it all? So again, Why do people distrust Brian's current support system/Melinda so much?

I will give some real-world answers here:
- the FAQ book, Stebbins says he saw Brian being verbally chewed out backstage at a show
- Brian laying down on stage during a concert a decade or more ago
- Brian going out on stage recently with an obvious horrendous back issue
- Brian seeming to be disinterested at the Pet Sounds shows

Those are real-world examples of odd happenings that make us question whether Brian is in the best of hands. The latter three are seriously not signs of an abusive/authoritative power structure controlling Brian...yes, they make us ask the question why is Brian still up on stage when he has all these issues? But they aren't signs of some dominant/evil/irresponsible presence in Brian's life. Brian is a mentally complicated guy. If he felt he was in mortal jeopardy he could tell Jason Fine when he's out in a car ride with the guy, he could tell his doctors at UCLA, he could tell Wendy or Carnie. Keep in mind that Brian is the guy who said Norbit was his favorite movie (as in, he's seemingly working on another level than the rest of us) - if he becomes disinterested in singing 'You Still Believe In Me' for the 400th time he's allowed to do that. If he shuffles around on stage with a bad back, he's allowed to do that too: had my granddad been a rockstar he would rather be out on the road at 80 living life than sitting in a damn nursing home. So maybe Brian does have free will and chooses to be on the road over sitting at home. The bad back Brian has on stage is the same bad back he'd be dealing with at home. He still sits at home, he still walks around at home. Also keep in mind that any rockstar/musician will have some crazy moments. We don't bat an eye when Ozzy does something insane (pun intended :-D), or when Axl bites some dude's leg, or when Keith and Mick spending $10,000+ at a bar after a concert. Brian literally hears a voice in his head that tells him he needs to kill himself. He hears that crap every day. So with that in mind, I think the stage quirks and oddities are fairly understandable given what he deals with.

The former example (Stebbins witnessing Brian being verbally abused) is something I take very seriously, and it hurt me when I read it in the FAQ book. It made me wonder how many other times Brian was verbally abused backstage. However, consider this: that was ONE sole example from 20+ years of Brian touring, recording, and living outside of the realm of Landy. Most of us have been to one of Brian's concerts, perhaps backstage a little - there are a lot of people in the background who make those shows work. Consider that none of those people (catering, stage-hands, roadies, venue operators/workers, band members themselves) haven't whistle-blown Brian being abusively controlled. I completely believe that Stebbins saw what he saw. But I also think that if it were an ongoing thing, in the age of whistle-blowing, Twitter, cell-phone videos, a pattern of evidence would have emerged by now.

The Landy era was chock full of examples of abuse - Brian was literally dying, while musicians working with him told stories about his horrible situation. Diane Sawyer even did a piece that asked a few questions about Brian's situation.

But how many people (musicians, journalists, friends, family, etc) within the last 20 years have said "Holy sh*t, Brian's in a bad spot right now. Melinda is pumping him full of pills, he's being controlled by Melinda just like he was controlled by Landy, he is physically and mentally unhealthy." I have an answer to that: One. And his name is Mike friggin Love. 99.9% of everyone else who has actually been around Brian have just talked about how aloof he can be sometimes, but there isn't ongoing talk about surf-nazis, evil doctors, no contact with family, control, etc etc.

There is merely one man who claims that Brian is controlled...the same guy who sued the hell out of Brian, Brian's wife, Brian's friends and business partners over a lousy picture on a CD a little over a decade ago* (as in, I don't think someone who has already blatantly lied about their own cousin should have any bearing on the debate about said cousin). And let's not forget the misinformation/disinformation that was spread by someone on this very forum (and possibly other forums) that painted Melinda in a very very bad light (information that was blatantly false). I feel like this information has permeated the minds of some posters, and has melded with the examples I gave at the beginning of this post, and created a foundation of distrust for Melinda or Brian's organization.

I personally think that if Brian's life were being irresponsibly/harmfully mis-managed, we would have already seen some major warning signs, ongoing whistle-blowing, and an outcry from friends/family.

None of us know if Brian willfully said himself "I'll be ready in the fall to start touring again. I promise." But yet many here just assume the worst. I'm not blaming anyone for thinking this way, but I do think that before we make assumptions and speculation, we should ask why we are making negative assumptions...and if those assumptions are based on facts.

Anywho, I know this post was longwinded, apologies for that. I just see a lot of negative assumptions brought up here, and would like to know why. Above are my thoughts, but I would like to hear about other outlooks and other points of view that perhaps I'm missing.

*And to anyone claiming I'm bringing some "Mike Love is Beelzebub" or whatever nonsense like that to this thread, I'm merely showing the foundation of why I think Brian's current life/care is questioned to this day. I think its an important issue to dissect so we can here forth logically talk about Brian's life without the conversation being influenced by false information.

Edit: misspellings, etc

I look at it as a positive, like he’s doing better

Whether or not you're a fan of the band, and I am a fan, I'd recommend reading this interview and article about Blink 182 drummer Travis Barker and his return to touring after major health issues...these coming after he survived a horrible plane crash just over a decade ago. It's relevant to what is being discussed about Brian Wilson and touring, and the interview itself is very uplifting and powerful (and I'd say inspirational as others have found Barker's saga to be, similar to Brian's own story of recovery and 2nd chances and all that...).

I doubt *anyone* is asking whether Travis is being forced to return to touring, why he's out there despite major health issues that could threaten his well being at any moment, how or why he's being pumped full of meds, or any of the stuff (bullshit is a better term at this point) going around for years now about BW's touring and personal life.

Here are a few quotes from the Barker interview, pertinent I'd say to seeing what's been happening with Brian in perhaps a different and more personal light:

“As long as I'm not dead, I think they know I'm going to tour,” Barker quips.

“I mean, I'm able to tour. I still am on blood-thinners, because I have scarred veins that are creating blood clots. But I'm touring and I'm playing drums every day, so I'm fine,” Barker assures Yahoo Entertainment. “And then I got hit by a bus… but I'm running and kind of working out again and my back's in good shape. I bounce back pretty quickly, knock on wood, but yeah, I'm good. I'm excited for this summer’s tour and everything's all good.”

“I guess from my history, the stuff I've overcome, my plane crash and stuff like that has just given me strength to overcome stuff and just really take advantage and cherish my second chance at life,” Barker continues. “When little things like this happen, I can't let them be so big or just take over my life to where I give up. I don't know, it's never been an option.”


And here is a link to the full interview. Seriously, consider giving this a read, it's worth it:
https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/blink-182-s-travis-barker-talks-health-scares-second-chance-at-life-and-why-giving-up-has-never-been-an-option-220212661.html (https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/blink-182-s-travis-barker-talks-health-scares-second-chance-at-life-and-why-giving-up-has-never-been-an-option-220212661.html)

For what it's worth, I read Brian's original message as a simple explanation for his inability to do a specific round of shows. The cancellation wasn't over a lack of will, desire or physical ability. Brian was having some specific mental illness-related challenges. This is likely something that he and his doctors think can be handled with rebalanced or different medication. It's also something, given the obvious amount of care BW receives, that probably isn't overly difficult to solve if everyone gets together and focuses on it for a while. Brian's mental health is likely improved by being on the road and surrounded by supportive band members and loving audiences. Staying at home after cancelling shows is likely not helpful, if the meds can be balanced out.

Guys, this isn't just Brian being uninterested to the point where he doesnt want to perform. In one of the videos I saw(I'll have to find the YouTube video again to know which exact show it was), Brian's eyes weren't even focused. He was singing(or, more like speaking) the song, but he was otherwise totally checked out mentally and/or emotionally from the show. Even at his absolute worst points in 1981-82 Brian wasn't like this. Something is really, really wrong. I'll no doubt get sh*t for this, but I truly think he needs to be in a hospital for a while.

Jay, none of us know all (or even some) of the facts here, which is why all this speculation seems kinda ridiculous to me.

Logically we know this: Brian has just undergone THREE back surgeries, has had mental instability since the third surgery (whether by prescription drug imbalance or other forces, we don't know yet) and no doubt that has effected the way he's composed himself...which is probably what you're describing in those videos Jay.

In a message sent to us fans he acknowledged he has been having a rough time mentally after the third back surgery, and that he's taking a break from touring for a while until the doctors sort the problem out. You are stating that something is "really really wrong" with Brian when he has already acknowledged that something is really really wrong. You're saying that he needs help but he's already acknowledged that he's getting help. To compound this last point, he has cancelled/postponed concerts to get this help.

I guess I just don't understand the melodrama behind your posts...you're making claims that you think those "in charge" of Brian aren't taking his care seriously...yet Brian (or those "in charge" of him) has cancelled/postponed a lot of tour dates because of this*. I would say that's pretty serious. People seem to forget that Brian has a team of doctors at UCLA that help him with his issues. UCLA doctors aren't some Landy quacks. They aren't puppets at the end of strings being controlled by Melinda Wilson. They are doctors (who all took oaths) who have helped look after Brian for years and years now. Again, the man just had 3 back surgeries, has a panic disorder, half a lifetime of hard drug abuse, voices that tell him to kill himself, he had a psychiatrist who tried to kill him by pumping him full of pills, the constant pain of losing all his brothers, manic depression, etc etc - managing all of that to help Brian feel normal isn't an easy task. And it's ridiculous to be an armchair doctor and to say he needs to go to a hospital for a while when you virtually know nothing about his care.

I hope you don't take this post as giving you sh*t for your opinion. But this type of vague hysteria that paints a target on those caring for Brian isn't helpful, and it isn't right.

* And I want to back up Wirestone's point: "Brian's mental health is likely improved by being on the road and surrounded by supportive band members and loving audiences. Staying at home after cancelling shows is likely not helpful, if the meds can be balanced out." I'm not going to speculate what is best for Brian, but if he is like most other people with mental illness, the worst thing you can do is stay home with the curtains drawn.

And this plays into what Guitarfool posted as well: sometimes those who have gone through hell are thankful that they can still get out and smell the flowers. Brian seems to be going through a lot right now, and he's working to get better. The best thing we can do is send him an uplifting card and send a prayer out to help his recovery.

I agree with a lot of Rab's points, especially that this speculation is pointless because we have no idea what's goin on.  I admit I engaged in speculation myself when I said that the fact that they're booking new dates in September could be a good sign, but that's because I want it to be a good sign, a sign that things are improving.  But honestly, we can all look at videos of this or that until we're blue in the face, but none of us are medical professionals treating Brian (as far as I know) and we really, really aren't qualified to diagnose what he needs or doesn't need. 

Also agreeing with another comment by Rab, I do think a lot of the comments are based on the assumption that Brian has no control over his life, and that he's somehow being taken advantage of.  It's rather disrespectful of Brian as well as those around him.  Just from having seen so many interactions of the various band members and Brian, I really don't doubt that these guys truly love Brian and I just can't see people like that standing by and watching him be exploited.  The argument is that a lot of people depend on Brian for employment, but come on, does anyone really think that someone like Al Jardine is so desperate to tour that he'd watch his friend and colleague of almost 60 years be taken advantage of?  Especially given the history with Landy, I would imagine that Brian's friends and family are very protective.  The undertone to a lot of these comments about what Brian should or shouldn't be doing is quite condescending and assumes that he's not capable of deciding that himself. 

I don't Jay meant it in that way; I can see why there's been concern. I will say this, though, if he's not ready it won't happen. These tours have to be insured. It's not like it was in the past as part of the Beach Boys. There's no Landy-type figure around either.

And again, here's a question I've asked before, and the "ones who should know" never have been able to answer. If Brian's being "forced"...well, for what? Same person has claimed that Brian's tours lose money. Well, so money can't be a consideration, then, right?

Exactly! Especially in a post-Landy era, especially in the #metoo/whistle-blower era, in a day and age where anything can be recorded quite secretly, where there is virtually no privacy due to surveillance cameras, where family and friends of Brian basically have a public obligation to make sure everything is going well with him....it just makes no sense that there is some secret cabal of controllers maniacally pulling strings to keep Brian bringing in the cash when it could easily be proven in this day and age.

Again, to those who speculate this. Consider where your information is coming from and has come from. Don't buy into the theories until you've looked at all sides. Once you've looked at all sides, please respond here with some evidence. But until then, don't vaguely hint at controllers or that people don't take taking care of Brian seriously. Because from my standpoint, it just doesn't make sense.

I agree, and I get why people think Brian is being controlled by Melinda or someone: he has a history of being controlled by others. And there is a history of him being onstage (certainly 1981-82, and probably other times as well...does anyone think Brian looks happy onstage in those 1976 shows?) when he was not well, physically or emotionally.

I guess perspectives have changed over the years. The first BB's book I read was David Leaf's, and he spent a good chunk of it wondering why Brian was being dragged out on stage in 76-77, when he was obviously terrified being out there. He would just sit at the piano, not sing, not play, just looked frozen with fear. The point kept being made that Brian's place was in the studio, not on the stage. Why are things any different now?


I also have to wonder what being onstage with that loud music is doing to his one good ear? I've got serious hearing loss in my left ear, and it rings for days, sometimes weeks,  after a show.

Melinda definitely doesn't control Brian. She's his caring & loving wife. Brian can do what he likes to. Fact.

That last point makes me pause...hearing goes with age anyway. He’s already deaf in one ear. He’s stated in interviews that being on stage helps him because he can distract himself from the auditory hallucinations by concentrating on performing(there’s one such interview on YouTube that I’ll post the link to when I find it). If his hearing is going and he can’t hear the music as well, what effect would that have on the voices?


Edit

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OLdjjXDtA8g

Exactly

I'll say one more, and final post on the subject. I don't mean to insinuate or state that it's Melinda that's "controlling" Brian, or that it it's any one person in particular. I All I'm saying is that booking more gigs for him right now is a bad idea. If Brian's issues are being underestimated and oversimplified, then it could end in potential disaster. I'm just concerned and want the best for the guy who has made an immense impact on my life.


Edit: I'd just like to also point out that I never once directly said Melinda's name in reference to poor decision making.

Rab, all your posts are great. Wanted to do a standing ovation after reading that first one. Mike absolutely bears a lot of responsibility for dragging out these rumors, which, if there was any truth to them, it would be irresponsible for him not to step in. But he doesn't. The idea that every single person in Brian's private and working relationships doesn't care? It just makes no sense.

Brian has shown he will absolutely pull the plug on a show if he has to. I know some people want him to take it easy and stop touring, but I don't know how many times Brian has to say he looks forward to getting out on the road before we admit it might be a good motivator for him even through really bad days. Not everything is all good or bad, and Brian knows when the bad means he has to put it on hold for a bit.

Why are things any different now? No offense, Lonely Summer, but if you can't tell a difference between Brian 40 years ago and Brian now, I have to seriously question whether or not you're trolling. You say that 40 years ago Brian didn't sing, didn't play, and was frozen with fear at his concerts, then ask why are things any different now...Because now Brian does sing, does play, and isn't frozen with fear at his shows. And yes, I'm sure he has his fearful moments: again, the man hears voices that tell him to kill himself. I'd love to see you, me, or anyone else fair any better under his same circumstances. He may be disinterested sometimes at his shows, but that isn't a sign of dominant control over his life. Every Pet Sounds show I've been to Brian has sung along, has smiled at the audience, and really had some beautiful vocal moments that I will cherish forever. More recently, if he is acting strange at his shows, it's logical to deduce that the mental issues Brian just messaged us about are related to those actions.

[Edit: to add a point about "Brian's place" in regards to the studio or the stage - people change over a 50 year period...no one stays the same. Who is to say that Brian prefers the studio or the stage these days? Only Brian. And Brian has stated many times in recent years that he likes being on the road. He says he is also intimidated by the stage, but he also likes it too. Regardless, I don't think any keyboard warriors need to analyze and scrutinize what is or isn't "Brian's place" or what kind of medical attention he needs. Given he is still in the recording studio, given he is now 77 and still plans on doing concerts, given he still wakes up and faces every day with determination, I'd say he is doing pretty damn good without our ill-informed opinions.]

And trying to rationalize this idea that Brian is currently controlled because he has been controlled before is completely asinine. For the last two decades you could catch Brian alone at his favorite deli, or driving his car alone through LA. He was once controlled to the point where for years he couldn't see his own family. When currently he can go see Carnie or Wendy whenever he wants to. During that time he couldn't even talk on the phone unless supervised. He currently has his own personal phone he can use whenever. I'll just quote my initial post on this matter in case you overlooked that:


By claiming, or even entertaining the idea, that Brian is controlled to a point where his personal well-being is in jeopardy, you are disrespecting every doctor, every family member, every musician, every friend that Brian spends his time around on a regular basis. You are basically insinuating that those currently around Brian don't have the heart to speak out against such an atrocity. Such insinuations are unfair to people like Al Jardine, Darian Sahanaja, Daria Wilson, Melinda, all of Brian's close and longtime friends, and most importantly Brian himself.

As for being on stage with one good ear - I'm beyond sure that Brian wears top-quality hearing protection as needed, as many (most?) professional performers do. The lead singer of Coldplay has horrendous tinnitus yet wears ear-pieces/protection, they play stadiums packed with sound gear. There are ways to protect hearing these days even for stadium shows. Let's logically think through that when Brian is doing soundcheck he talks normally with the people around him, when he is doing meet-and-greets he is normally talking with people. That doesn't sound like someone who's one good ear is undergoing abnormal strain.

Finally, I will say that if Brian is being controlled to the point where he is being forced to do things truly against his will, I will admit I was wrong and eat my hat. But to base the conclusion that Brian is currently controlled off of "he was once controlled so he could be controlled now" or that 40 years ago he didn't sing, play, and looked frozen at his concerts and even though he is singing, playing, and not frozen at his concerts now somehow this means he is being controlled is pretty illogical and irresponsible for any fan of Brian or the Beach Boys.


Thanks much lonelysea :) I completely and wholeheartedly agree with the part highlighted in yellow. It just makes no sense indeed.

This pretty much nails it. Let's not forget indeed. The sad part is that some continue to believe this false innuendo and gossip coming from places of jealousy and personal grudges against specific individuals instead of listening to people who actually know and have known the situation, where the facts have been in the open for years now. It's sad to the point of pathetic that a very small number of so-called "fans" still believe this crap which has been debunked and disproven for years now over believing the actual truth.

As far as what Brian says to interviewers or on social media, I keep remembering during the Landy years how Brian told everybody that "Dr Landy saved my life", and when Landy's ethics were questioned, Brian always stood up for him. If it's as simple as Brian just getting up and walking away from a bad situation, why couldn't he do that at any point during the Landy years? I just can't believe that in his condition (and i am talking mostly physical) and age, Brian enjoys the whole touring regiment. There have been many nights on recent tours where he looked like he would rather be anywhere but on that stage.
Okay, now i'll be called a troll. I see it the other way around - i think fans are being selfish by expecting Brian to continue on these never ending oldies tours. Let the man have some rest, he's earned it. We don't need him doing 10 more years of final Pet Sounds shows, or any shows for that matter.
Does anybody really know what Brian wants?  ::)

Eh, doubting every interview just becomes an unfalsifiable game. Can we really know the truth? I mean, yeah, we could ... if people didn't act like every Brian interview is done in secret code.

Probably because Landy had him doped all the time (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-K-n5op9nI) to the point where Brian was exhibiting signs of a stroke?

Let's just logically think through the scenarios where Brian is currently under some Landy-esque control:

Scenario 1: Melinda Wilson is controlling Brian. So let's get this straight, Brian's net worth is $75 million. $75,000,000.00. Obviously this is not money he has in the bank, but it shows that the man isn't hurting for cash. Yet supposedly Melinda needs to risk the public exposure of controlling Brian like Landy by forcing Brian to hop on a tour bus, strictly tour Pet Sounds shows to make them more money? And all of Brian's family and friends, including his daughters who actually talk to the guy, don't do anything to stop this atrocity?

Scenario 2: The band is controlling Brian. The band, including Darian and Al, need to stay employed so they somehow have a secret cabal of controllers forcing Brian to tour so they can put food on their tables (apparently this is the only way they can have gainful employment). So the band, ignoring the fact that Melinda has already taken down the controlling Landy (to the point where a major motion picture was made about it), secretly forces Brian to tour, hoodwinking Melinda in the process.

If there are any scenarios (or alterations to the above scenarios) that don't sound completely asinine, please share them (anyone). Because I'm just trying to logically get to the bottom of this point of view.


And as I've explained numerous times before, the mental instability he recently publicly acknowledged has probably been the cause of much of this seeming disinterest. And again, he is currently getting help for his current mental issues by postponing/cancelling a lot of tour dates. And again, the bad back he has on stage is the same bad back he'd have at home: he has to sit at home, has to walk at home.


Point me to one post, one article, one blog where some fan is stating that Brian NEEDS to be touring at 77 years of age. I don't think anyone expects the man to tour. The man could literally become a monk, join a monastery, and every fan of Brian's would likely say "man that's weird but that's Brian for ya." I don't think any fan would be selfishly angry that they couldn't watch Brian from seat 11F at the Fantasy Springs Resort Casino if they knew that Brian was quitting touring for his own health.


Exactly. And to add to this, I'll just repeat a line from my previous post: I don't think any keyboard warriors need to analyze and scrutinize what is or isn't "Brian's place" or what kind of medical attention he needs. Given he is still in the recording studio, given he is now 77 and still plans on doing concerts, given he still wakes up and faces every day with determination, I'd say he is doing pretty damn good without our ill-informed opinions.


Exactly.

The answer to why Brian couldn't just "walk away" from Landy could be a simple one. There were contracts signed and legal issues beyond the main issue that Landy was a psychiatric care professional, a doctor who was board certified, and who was (originally) a specialist in treating addictions. In the worst cases his treatment method involved an almost full immersion into his program 24 hours a day to where the patient would be under constant observation and treatment in order to treat the addictions and surrounding physical and mental issues.

Landy was originally hired to implement this immersive, full-control "treatment" to cure Brian of the addictions and related physical ailments and Brian was effectively signed over to Landy's care. Allowing a patient in addiction recovery to simply walk away would be like pressing the self-destruct button, and Landy was being paid to cure Brian. Put 2+2 together.

What happened eventually was a total abuse of the doctor-patient relationship that went beyond ANYTHING anyone would have imagined, which could have and almost did destroy Brian...at that point, action was taken *through legal channels* to remove Brian from Landy's care.

If it were as simple as Brian walking away, there would not have been a need to get court orders and legal actions in order to get Landy the f*** out of Brian's life. Landy had abused his position enough to have taken control of not only Brian's recovery, but his financial, social, professional, and musical life...until the courts stepped in, along with medical licensing boards and got Landy out of there, along with stripping him of his license.

It seems pretty obvious to me that it's likely Brian himself and Melinda probably realize that when Brian has nothing in particular to do (as in if he's not keeping occupied), this will possibly put him at risk at falling back into not-so-great habits and depression from just sitting around, plus it might make Brian focus too much on thoughts that make him sad, such as the family members that he has lost, etc.  Let's also look at the fact that Brian probably did lots of sitting around when recovering from back surgery, and perhaps that in and of itself was a catalyst for the tough emotional times he's had lately that caused tour date cancellations.

I'm sure that being on the road - despite some parts of that such as traveling, etc being not so much fun - keeps Brian motivated, and dare I say distracted in a good way from the dark stuff that he has to contend with - and as it seems Brian may not have the inclination or urge to be sitting around writing/recording as he once was, the road must be some kind of therapy for him these days. Just my opinion. If Brian had the fire in his belly to write/record these days, he'd be immersing himself in writing/recording, and I'm sure he'd sometimes be grimacing here and there and doing quirky Brian stuff without a crowd of people sitting around speculating that he didn't want to be there. The  time-consuming road life these days has just taken the place of his prior time-consuming music hobby of writing/recording.

Also, I think that for a studio perfectionist like Brian, that it must be hard for him on a personal level to deal with his own decline of having a voice not capable of doing what his voice did at a younger age. Yet that's what Brian does - make music and sing - it's pretty much all he knows. So there could be somewhat of mixed emotions going on when he records new music and performs on stage, well aware of his own age making him sound different from how he did in the 1960s, but also simultaneously experiencing the healing power of music and wanting to continue making music and/or performing live because of that healing power. There's got to be a lot of mixed emotions going on for a sensitive soul like Brian, and maybe sometimes we see glimpses of that.

Let's face it - people who look at recent shows and want to say that Brian "doesn't want to be there" - and basing that on his body language - could come across as having a legit point on a surface level from just observing how Brian looks in a given moment, but that's certainly not the whole story and can't be used as a proper basis to judge the entirety of the situation.  

After all, look at how Brian's body language was on the Beautiful Dreamer DVD documentary, when he was sitting in a room with his band members, looking like he didn't want to be there at practice. Nevertheless, he pushed through those rough patches, and then eventually came through with flying colors on the other side, where it all led up to a triumphant performance of SMiLE where he conquered one of the biggest things that had been gnawing away at him for decades. I feel confident in saying that Brian isn't being "forced" or "coerced" into touring. It's not like his tours are making some crazy amounts of profit, for one, and secondly I'm sure that Melinda and those close to him wouldn't do that to him if he really, truly felt that way. I think at this point Brian is having "the show must go on" mentality with rescheduling dates several months off.

For whatever reason(s), and probably part of that is fear of growing old and mortality, the road provides a distraction from just sitting around and thinking about that grim fact. I'm sure the same is true with Mike. The road must be a great distraction.  If I was 77 years old, and had the opportunity to not just sit around and be depressed, I'm sure I'd wanna get out of my living room and off my couch too. Besides, even that's probably not as much fun as it used to be, as the TV show Flipper isn't airing anymore anyway  ;D

^ Brilliantly stated, CD

Completely agree. Also, thanks Guitarfool for making all that crystal clear about the Landy situation.

I have absolutely no doubt that Mike loves being on the road. It's what he's always lived for. He's doing exactly what Carl, way back in the 80's, predicted he'd be doing. I doubt, though, that anyone would have believed Brian would spend most of the latter part of his life as a touring oldies act.

Yes. I need to go back and read Brian's book again, but I believe he said his routine at home is pretty much watching the news and Wheel of Fortune or somesuch. He had his deli routine, but that can't happen all day ,and not with a bad back. It seems that he needs ways to get out of his own head.  It's not like he plays golf.

A 9/29 "Greatest Hits" show has been announced, so I've added that to the top post schedule.

Also added next year's "Cayamo" cruise gig to this schedule for now; if/when more 2020 shows are scheduled, I'll start up a 2020 thread if needed.

Looks like the first 2020 show is the rescheduled one for Lynn, MA on 1/24/20.
https://www1.ticketmaster.com/brian-wilson/event/0100565AC0B46CDF

Brian's first show since canceling the June dates of his tour is a little more than a week away. I've been anxiously waiting to see if the Aug. 7 show happens, as I have tickets for Aug. 11. First and foremost, I hope Brian is healthy. But I can't deny that, as selfish as it may be, I hope he is able to perform again.

Not long after I posted the above, Brian Wilson's Facebook and Instagram pages posted about his feeling better and looking forward to starting up the tour in August. http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,26623.msg652301.html#msg652301 (http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,26623.msg652301.html#msg652301) He's looking good. I'm excited to see him in Ohio.

What show are you going to in Ohio?  I live near Cincinnati, based on the last few years and the reviews, I have been planning to skip Huber Heights (near Dayton) and the gig in Cincinnati.  I want to remember the awesome shows that I have seen in the past.  Now I am re-thinking.....

[quote author=Matt H link=topic=26082.msg652355#msg652355 date=1564510582
What show are you going to in Ohio?  I live near Cincinnati, based on the last few years and the reviews, I have been planning to skip Huber Heights (near Dayton) and the gig in Cincinnati.  I want to remember the awesome shows that I have seen in the past.  Now I am re-thinking.....
[/quote]

I'm going to the Aug. 11 show in Cuyahoga Falls (Blossom Music Center).

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/brian-wilson-feeling-much-better-resumes-tour-865134/

Brian is feeling much better and ready to play.

That's right, he's gonna get out there and rock and roll us like never before!

That warms my heart. Looking forward to him kicking ass. 

I hear that rock and roll album is finally coming together!
Here I am...rock you like a hurricane!

Snide, much?

I just saw this interview with Al Jardine, where he mentions Matt Jardine singing the falsetto parts. I didn't realize Matt was back with Brian's band.

Here's the link: https://www.wnypapers.com/news/article/featured/2019/08/03/137995/historic-event-and-rarefied-air-when-brian-wilson-al-jardine-perform-pet-sounds (https://www.wnypapers.com/news/article/featured/2019/08/03/137995/historic-event-and-rarefied-air-when-brian-wilson-al-jardine-perform-pet-sounds)

I'm looking forward to reviews, as well as seeing what's on the playlist, for tonight's show.

Apart from a few interludes (last year's XMas tour), Matt has been full time with the band since 2015. (And also did some 2014 gigs as well).

Glad to see the Al interview. It's standard boilerplate tour promotion, but it's good to get Al out there to promote the shows.

Pretty funny, the article transcribes one song title Al mentions as "Little Do Scoop."

It also says that Al wrote "Sloop John B"

In the interview, Al seems to take credit for the arrangement, which is odd. I thought Al did an arrangement and gave it to Brian and then Brian vastly improved on it.
But Al generally comes off as being so humble. I love what he says about Brian:

Q: You’ve been doing this with Brian for a long time. What does he mean to you at this point in your career – and what does he mean to you as a friend and as a tour mate?

Al Jardine: Well, he means everything to me. You know, we grew up together. We went to school together. Started the band together. We’re very close to one another and share an awful lot of memories. (Laughs)

Unfortunately, he has some health issues. His back has been bothering him for years, and he needs a little help getting on and off stage. But other than that, he’s terrific. And we have a great rapport with one another.

He’s the real thing. Let’s put it that way. We didn’t appreciate it at the time, but it’s become pretty clear to everyone that he’s an exceptional human being, and a wonderful, wonderful arranger/songwriter/producer, you name it. He owns it. Even Paul McCartney bows down to Brian and his compositional genius. And we respect Paul a lot, too, of course.

You want funny?

Al unable to remember the key to HMR last week.  :lol

https://youtu.be/jOOHNtFmb6g


“Just sing Al....This is your big song” ;D

The “Sloop John B” thing has been debated for years. I don’t think Al is ever trying to take a bunch of extra credit for it. I don’t think anybody knows *precisely* what Al brought to Brian. But I do think the song’s credit (Trad. Arranged by Brian) could have easily also included Al; I think he contributed enough to the skeleton of the arrangement that he probably should have gotten a co-credit, especially considering it’s a “Traditional” thing already anyway. It’s not like Al just opened the door, threw the Kingston Trip (or whatever) LP at Brian, and then took off.

Knowing how this band usually operates, it’s worth noting that Al has *not* sued or otherwise griped in interviews that he was cheated out of credits over the song.

Al has that absent minded professor personality for sure . Then you’ll hear him notice some obscure part missing in a BW soundcheck. In his defense they did lower the key on that for a number of years in the 70s and early 80s.😂

I guess I had the impression his absence during last year's Xmas tour was more than just for that tour, and I hadn't seen any reports that he was back with the band for this year's performances.

The "Little Do Scoop" is a great mis-transcription.

"The "Little Do Scoop" is a great mis-transcription."


:lol I'm going to use that for a song title

Regarding Sloop, there's a Boot of home recordings from Brian's tape recorder when he was in high school long before The Beach Boys were even a thing. If memory serves correctly there is an a cappella recording of some of the guys doing Sloop John B - and it is far far from what Brian eventually ended up with on Pet Sounds (it is a much more tradition folk cover). So with that being said, given that Al was such a big fan of the Trio, I'm inclined to think that he did come to Brian with a bare-bones arrangement that sounded suitable enough for the Beach Boys in order to persuade Brian to record it....And then Brian took it to a whole other world. Also, Al specifically says "And I rearranged it a little bit" so he's not really saying he did a ton of arranging for it.

That's nothing. When I was about 10 years old, I was chatting with my friend about Beach Boys songs that we liked and we named "Little Deuce Coupe." Then his little brother who was listening got upset and went and told his mom that we were talking about "little loose poops."

Well that sure brings new meaning to your handle, Chocolate Shake Man!

Sorry, I had to...

:lol

"Sloop John B" (and its various other titles) was one of the more popular folk standards in the 1950s and '60s. Not only by the Kingston Trio, but the Weavers, Johnny Cash, the Brothers Four and others recorded it. Even Dick Dale did a version in 1963. I've counted a dozen or so released versions of the song prior to the Beach Boys' recording. So, it doesn't surprise me that there would be earlier versions of Brian and the boys messing around with it.

The Sail On podcast discussed the song recently (https://sailon.podbean.com/e/29-pet-sounds-part-1/ (https://sailon.podbean.com/e/29-pet-sounds-part-1/)), talking about how the musical arrangement isn't all that different from previous versions. It's more the vocals that set it apart, especially that section where the instrumental track drops out.

That podcast has it backwards IMO. Just use your ears and listen to the Kingston Trio version https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4d5Q5n3z6E (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4d5Q5n3z6E)  back to back with Brian's version. It's an exercise and assignment they called a production analysis we used to do at Berklee, where they'd have a song's demo for example, then follow it with the more familiar or "hit" version and they'd be compared back to back to analyze what a producer or arranger added or did to make it a hit record.

The Kingston Trio version - even without the similarities - is what I'd peg as the main influence on what Al suggested to Brian, most obviously since Al was a massive Kingston Trio fan as we all know.

Then when you listen: It's the *vocals* that are probably the most surprising similarity. The vocal arrangement is the most complete and most obvious launching point for Brian's version. The harmonies from the Trio were mostly kept intact by Brian - He only fattened up the sound and embellished some of the harmony stacks. He borrowed the idea of having different vocalists singing each verse's lead from the Kingston arrangement. The one powerhouse addition Brian did was of course the stunning a cappella break...no one but Brian could do that on a pop record in 65-66. That damn near makes the record.

But instrumentally? There is one key element Brian took and adapted from the Kingston Trio...They had the banjo playing arpeggio figures with the chords, alternating with them more prominently in the beginning and sometimes getting buried in the mix. Brian took those banjo arpeggios, adapted them to electric guitars and brought them out into the forefront of the arrangement, and tweaked them a bit to make them more repetitive and memorable figures. Then he added other guitar arpeggios on top, harmonizing them, and bringing even more in toward the end of the song. So Brian took a banjo part which drifts in and out of the Kingston blend, tweaked it, and made it a key element of his track.

The rest, well...use your ears. Brian took a sparse guitar-banjo-tenor guitar "live" backing with the only percussion being one of the Trio knocking on their guitar's body and literally blew it up into a wall of sound...yet, unlike Spector, you can hear damn near every instrument in that massive blend. Then add interesting percussion sounds, non-standard...flute as a main instrument...mallets...standard drums, layered guitars and bass, etc etc etc.

That's what a producer does, and in this case you can hear clearly what Brian did to turbo-charge and juice up the instrumental track which was a sparse folk arrangement of the Kingston Trio.

He did stay true mostly to the Kingstons' vocal arrangement though, minus of course the obvious a cappella break. But the rest, listening back to back, stays pretty true to the Kingston, especially in the technique of having separate leads on each verse.

So I haven't heard that podcast, but if they're suggesting the vocals are the main dividing line between the two, I'd say give it another listen and reconsider that theory based on the tracks themselves. It's the instrumental track that set Brian's arrangement and production literally light years ahead of the other, whereas a lot of the vocals and harmonies are taken directly from the Kingston version posted above. I honestly don't know how it can be reported that the instrumental backing "isn't all that different" when Brian's instrumental arrangement is radically different, and that is one of the main hooks of that record! But everyone has opinions I guess.

They're not. If you're strapped for time just listen from 40:20 - 41:40.

Sorry, that was more my comment about the vocals. I think your description of "turbo charging" it is a good one. Thanks B.E. for tracking down the time-stamp of the podcast. I was going on memory, as didn't have time to re-listen.

So anyway. The new improved Brian tonight?

"Pet Sounds" Tour Dates:

August 7, 2019 - Lewiston, NY - Artpark Mainstage (Rescheduled from June 15)
August 10, 2019 - Fort Wayne, IN - Embassy Theatre
August 11, 2019 -  Cuyahoga Falls, OH - Blossom Music Center (w/ Blossom Festival Orchestra)
October 2, 2019 - Red Bank, NJ - Count Basie Theatre (Rescheduled from June 11)
January 24, 2020 - Lynn, MA - Lynn Auditorium (Rescheduled from June 7)

On Facebook a few minutes ago a friend of Nick Walusko aka Nicky Wonder reported that he has just died in Buffalo. RIP. I suppose this means the show tonight won’t go on....but no definite word yet...

 Brian just posted on FB. The show will go on with a tribute.
Nick Walusco died in his sleep.
 :'(

Unreal. Lost for words right now, Nick was a truly phenomenal musician. What a tragic loss. RIP Nicky Wonder.

 RIP Nicky Wonder. 

How sad and shocking. I’m thinking of everyone in the band and the broader BW universe tonight. May they find some solace as the music plays on.

Very sad and shocking news, indeed. How old was he?

Only 59. What a huge loss.

Tonight will probably be the hardest concert ever for Brian, and all the band. Imagine having to sing some of those up beat songs. I’ll be rooting for them. Condolences to them and the family.

I always loved Nicky's lead on Pet Sounds, and his "You're under arrest" during Heroes and Villains.  I'm sure those moments will be hard for the band tonight and in the shows to come.

Any reports from the show? I'm curious how much they addressed Nicky Wonder's passing.

Just got back from the show in Lewiston tonight.  Brian opened by announcing that Nicky had passed away and they were dedicating the show to him.  A bouquet of flowers was in his stop on stage with his guitars. In place of the Pet Sounds instrumental, Paul spoke about how much of a shock it is but “we are musicians and the show must go on.” 

Nicky’s guitar parts were sorely missing in some spots. Paul coved Nicky’s parts but he might always be doubling those parts too. Probyn must have taken Nicky’s lead on Let’s Go Away for Awhile, he looked frustrated playing keys, guitar and trumpet on the same song.

Brian sounded better than when I saw him last year.  Not surprisingly, his vocal on California Girl opening the show was his best of the night.  After that, they seemed to be saving him for Pets Sound. He was also strong on Vibes and FFF.

Highlights of the set list were
Wake the World -Al
Add Some Music Brian
Friends Matt
The Night was So Young Brian
Feel Flows Blondie

Thanks for reporting on tonight’s show.  It must have been very sad.  I just can’t imagine them getting that news and having to perform.  So sad for Brian and the whole band right now, especially Darian, as he and Nicky seemed like partners in crime. 

Man I can’t even imagine how hard it’d be to perform after a friend and band mate passed. My heart goes out to all of them, and Nick’s family.

I don’t even want to imagine how hard it was for Brian especially considering this was his first show back. 

Was Brian using a wheelchair during the show or was he walking on his own?

I don't begrudge the band pretty much anything for having to get through a show literally hours after such awful, awful news.

But for those interested in how Brian's vocals sound, here's IJWMFTT from last night. I think the most diplomatic thing to say is that Brian is looking in much better spirits in photos from recent days, and his staying active out there is hopefully a good thing, but I can't say his lead vocals have improved at all compared to gigs from the past year or two:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uph4mX2Hx4A

Again, I don't judge any decisions the band made, I'm sure they had more than ample emotional reason to skip performing the "Pet Sounds" instrumental last night in light of it being so closely associated with Nicky, but that may well have been the only instance of Brian doing a full PS performance but with one song skipped.

Interesting to see the first show back also dip back into some deeper cuts with "Friends" and "The Night Was So Young."

hate when he sings(?) the songs like that... Why I'm retired from going to the live shows. Last saw him on the Gershwin tour and it was a great show.

Who did they get to play guitar?

Kinda surprised they didn't take a night off... :-/

Maybe he's entering a Sinatra phase where you can play with the timing of the vocal a bit... maybe not

California Girls: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_nj1Iow9gI

Love it or hate it, that’s Brian’s approach to the PS material these days. When executed precisely, I find it charming. Sometimes it’s not executed so well, and it sounds less appealing. Your mileage (as with all things BW live) may vary.

California Girls sounds relatively strong.

I can only guess, but had this been a random show in the middle of a tour, or even a "regular" opening night for a tour leg, they may well have taken the night off. But I think this being the first show back after several months off and after Brian previously canceled shows, they probably felt it would have been detrimental to the whole touring operation if they canceled the first show back after all the articles about how Brian's ready to go again, etc.

I'm not judging the decision one way or the other, there are surely many factors going into such decisions. 

I guess if I had to describe to someone who hadn't heard this PS singing what it sounded like, some sort of staccato vaguely Sinatra-esque "talky" singing might be a decent descriptor.

But clearly for some time now, Brian has been bored with and/or struggling with singing the PS material. Either way, it's not becoming a *more pleasant* experience for audience members as time goes by.

Brian, while still seeming to struggle overall, sounds less troubled on the non-PS material, so hopefully with only a few PS shows on the schedule, the shows will be less rocky on the lead vocal side as the tour goes on. That's really the best I can conjure to hope for.

I would suggest that if this trend continues, that Al would perhaps be the lead singer for the Pet Sounds segment with Brian assisting with the bv's when he feels compelled to do so. Al's got the voice to do it and played a substantial part in the vocals on PS. That way you still get Brian and PS sung well.

I think that vocal approach is so exceptionally jarring because you have Brian speaking his way through it, and then this beautiful soaring vocal from Matt Jardine that sounds damn near like the record and it so thoroughly accentuates what Brian is NOT doing on stage. The Pet Sounds shows should've ended in 2016 after the original (FINAL 50th Ann.) run of shows was done.

Concerning specifically PS shows, it seems there *may*, and I stress *may*, be an indication that they are not looking at booking a ton more PS shows. They only had/have five booked for this year, and as of last night three of the five are dates that are rescheduled from the June dates.

I think it's worth looking at shows that come up over the next few months.

I will say that while PS seems to have exponentially more issues with Brian, and as recently as 2017 I recall on-site reviews from some very straight-shooter type of fans who aren't afraid to call it like it is who said Brian was like night and day when it came to PS (bored, detached, talk-singing) and the first set (lots of energy on those songs), I think at this stage even the non-PS stuff is sounding objectively pretty challenged.

At this stage, while I think “talk-singing” or some variation of that term is an easy term to use for lack of something else to call it, I’d almost say at this stage that if he can’t or won’t sing the melodies in a relatively conventional fashion as he has all these years, he’d be better off truly switching to some sort of Nick Cave-esque “talking” sort of singing.

What Brian’s doing now is not only the “talk” thing, but he’s kind of spurting the words out staccato, like he’s buffering data every few words; there’s a long gap and then all the words come spilling out. I’m not saying it’s anything near ideal, but if he could work on refashioning his singing style to some sort of Bob Dylan/Nick Cave sort of smooth type of “talk” singing, maybe it wouldn’t sound so jarring.

Right now, while we’re trying to come up with words and terms to describe what he’s doing on stage, I can’t really say it actually comes across as a *style* per se. It just sounds like he’s *really really* struggling to sing the stuff on multiple fronts (hitting the notes, enunciating the different syllables, the tempo/metre, etc.) .

There's definitely truth to that, as you say many posters here have mentioned the switch on the first couple years of the tour however, it has been expanding to the remainder of the set from there.

I've seen "Pet Sounds" three times...August 2016 in Baltimore was a bad night for Brian. Generally disengaged the entire evening. September 2016 in Bethesda, MD was THE best I have ever seen Brian. He was not just singing but belting the tunes from Pet Sounds and beyond, very animated with the crowd (ex. row, row, row your boat), cursing like CRAZY the whole night etc. and most recently, November 2018 in DC with the NSO was the worst shape I've seen Brian in. Not necessarily singing poorly, but mostly not singing and then stammering through Pet Sounds. He was not present that evening. After the final notes of "Love and Mercy" he very loudly said into the microphone "is that it, Paul?" before fidgeting to maneuver off stage.


I know there's an answer...but Brian will have to find it by himself.

Brian walked on and off stage with Paul and a stage hand holding him up under his arms. It doesn’t look like he would be able to walk with a walker. He must use a wheelchair most of the time.  

The was no intermission, and no going off and on stage for the encore.

As a sort of mixture of a “here’s what I would do” pitch as well as a “what I think might actually happen” summation, I think the Zombies tour dates will feature unavoidably shorter shows. If it’s anything like the 2013 Beck shows in terms of show length, we’re looking at the Brian set being maybe 70-80 minutes, and maybe featuring 20-25 songs? So perhaps they need to close ranks even more and really have Al, Matt, Darian, and Blondie do even more leads. This will unavoidably decrease Brian’s lead vocal role in the show, but if it’s a choice between doing this very challenged singing in front of audiences versus audiences just noting that Brian is handing a lot of leads off, I think the latter is better at this stage, or less problematic anyway.

Someone posted the setlist on setlist.fm for last night's show, but I'm curious if it's accurate. The source it cites for the setlist is *this thread* we're on right now, and I don't see that anybody posted the full setlist.

Can anybody confirm this list of songs and this order? I'm curious if someone just took the previous setlists and threw in the hand full of songs mentioned in this thread.

https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/brian-wilson/2019/artpark-mainstage-lewiston-ny-539fb321.html

Does Brian get 'feedback' on his performance? Do they work on stuff? I sometimes get the feeling he's put on a pedestal that's unhelpful - uncorrected, unchallenged

I'm so hesitant to ever trust that site haha. It's a great concept but man are their some errors on there and i remember back during C50 people were posting fake sets and people were getting in fights over minor errors like spelling and punctuation.

Yeah, it's always a grain of salt situation with that site. I'm definitely not one to question how much time folks spend on whatever board or site, but there seem to be some folks on setlist.fm that are similar to the people who like to jump on Wikipedia to update it the moment a celebrity dies. I've seen someone jump the gun on Brian (and other) setlists on setlist.fm in the past. Not sure why it's so important to be the *first person* to update a setlist, and yeah, I've seen some cases where they just cut and paste the previous show's setlist.

And oh man, yeah, don't get me started on the weird selective pedantry on the site when it comes to the most minor of *debatable* details. At one point, someone went through every Brian and BB setlist (seemingly hundreds) to change the notation on "Caroline, No" to list it as a "Brian Wilson song" rather than a BB song. Yes, yes, I know why, but it's a Beach Boys song too people. Now every BB show in the archive lists any show with "Caroline, No" as containing another "cover", which I don't think is really quite the appropriate characterization. But I digress....

Article on the show with some pics:

https://www.wnypapers.com/news/article/featured/2019/08/08/138068/pet-sounds-performed-at-artpark

Here's a few:

(https://www.wnypapers.com/content/images//2013-AP/Brian-Wilson-Pet-Sounds-2.png)

(https://www.wnypapers.com/content/images//2013-AP/Brian-Wilson-Pet-Sounds-8.png)

(https://www.wnypapers.com/content/images//2013-AP/Brian-Wilson-Pet-Sounds-16.png)

(https://www.wnypapers.com/content/images//2013-AP/Brian-Wilson-Pet-Sounds-21.png)

I agree completely and truly hope that is the outcome we get. That should help Brian to feel he's making the most meaningful contributions on stage, too.

Did NOT play
Dance Dance Dance
Deuce Coupe
Shut Down
California Saga
Darlin
Love & Mercy

They played the others listed but not quite that order.   
The first 3 were California Girls, Surfer Girl and Don’t Worry Baby
Fi

I've seen the Pet Sounds tour show several times and I've seen Brian's other shows throughout the years as well. You definitely get good Brian and bad Brian depending upon what day he performs but the last show I saw of the Pet Sounds shows was really bad. I am not a fan of the talk singing and I think Brian would have been much better served had he handed all of the vocals over to Matt and Al Jardine. I love Brian I love his music I love Pet Sounds but I probably won't go and see him perform it again until the talk singing stops. IMHO

I don’t think it will. Little Richard went the same way IMO. Just not capable at about the same age.

https://youtu.be/_SUK8chqHac

I’ve seen a LOT of the PS shows since 2016 and to be honest, the talk-singing doesn’t bother me that much, but it’s because I’m actually just really grateful that I’m getting to see Brian and the band at all.  The reality is that singing is quite physically demanding - as HeyJude alluded to, it’s not just about hitting the notes, it’s also about timing and cadence and getting the words out in the right way.  It demands a lot of the singer both physically and mentally, but especially physically.  The reality is that at age 77, the voice does start to go.  Brian’s range is a lot more limited, he sounds like he’s struggling for breath at times, and he sounds like he’s trying to get all the words out in one go.  The last time I saw Brian was November 2018 and he actually struck me as someone who seemed like he was in pain, based on his vocals.  His singing was not that of a relaxed, comfortable person (I mean physically, not emotionally).  

Mike’s singing is also pretty bad these days, as is Bruce’s.  They struggle to sing the way they used to, and quite frankly it’s normal for people at that age.   It’s just the physical reality.  Al is the exception; I don’t know what he’s done to preserve his voice but long may it continue.  

Having said all that, I’ll repeat what I said at the beginning.  I don’t mind hearing Brian do the talk-singing thing, and I’ll go see him when given the opportunity to do so.  There’s still very few things I’d rather do than go see a Brian Wilson concert :)   I completely agree with HeyJude’s suggestion to give more of the leads to other band members.  You’ve got these amazing singers in Al, Blondie, Matt, etc..., so use them to their fullest and let Brian sing when he wants to. 

Brian seems less animated, but less "Weekend At Bernie's" than Little Richard appears in that clip. If that makes sense.


How the f*** you gonna tell an almost 80 year old man that he's doing it wrong? He doesn't need constructive criticism at his age, he needs a "give it your best and if it's too much, take a breather".

Yeah, it ain't 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s, or 2000s Brian Wilson. But you're getting a band that can play and sing the tunes as good or better than the people who played on them originally, so just being in the presence of the guy who was responsible for them all, almost 6 decades later, should be plenty.

Brian hasn't needed some overbearing figure to tell him to "syncopate it" now or ever.

I don't say that stuff as a "Brianista" or any other sort of Brian apologist, but if this guy wants to shout sing or talk sing or just sit there behind his keyboard and look into space while one of the greatest bands around makes the music he created come to life, then that's fine.

He's a fragile guy. Lived harder  than 99.9% of people that live to be his age. He shouldn't have to jump through hoops or "sing better". He's still out there doing it despite having a pretty good physical disability....

Haha, good one.
He's Brian Freakin' Wilson, and he's 77 years old. 
At this point, as a fan and/or audience member, you pays your money and you takes your chances.

I can relate to your experience.
I had the chance to see Brian and his wonderful band around 2016 in his unexpected visit to Acapulco for the Tropico festival, where they would be performing Pet Sounds! Of course, as a geeky fan I was ecstatic, actually I was so thrilled to see him live that I cried a little when Pet Sounds started.
 I assisted to the gig with a small group of friends who like the beach boys but are not die hard fans really (to be honest, the beach boys are not that popular here in México) but their reactions when the concert was over were mixed at best. Some of them were really dissapointed at the vocal lead performances, that would include Blondie who did a very rough version of sail on sailor and wild honey, but especially some of the aforementioned friends were baffled with Brian's vocal performance.
That made me a bit uncomfortable and I kinda felt a bit offended, but later I think I got their point. For me as a huge fan who is in the know that Brian's supreme voice has been gone for decades doesn't matter if he didn't hit the notes or that for large moments of the show he looks uneasy or disengaged; for me to see the Totemic figure of a mastermind I revere was an unbeliavable memory, but for the average public in that festival in particular was somewhat jarring or even dissapointing.

Are you listening to the same performance I just heard? His voice sounds weak; I can't tell if he's not trying, or maybe he just can't do it anymore. The band sounds fine, backing vocals and everything are good, but Brian just isn't cutting it anymore.

Yeah, Richard retired after that show. He said someone took him aside after the show - might have been his son, or a nephew - and said "Richard, you don't sound good anymore". Oh, he wanted it, he wanted it badly, but he was recovering from failed hip replacement surgery, and he just couldn't do it anymore. Of course, Richard was his own boss, so he was able to say "no more rock and roll for Little Richard"; but Brian..well, I still doubt that he is in control of his own destiny. There's too many band members and family members counting on that paycheck.
I think if Carl and Dennis were still here, this charade would have ended several years ago.

Eh. I saw him in 2018, 2017, 2016 and so on. That’s how he sounds now. It’s decent by recent standards.

I was at the first PS show of 2016 so similar to this being the first show of this delayed tour. If I was to give a percentage for how his voice and stage presentation has deteriorated in 3 years I would say 25%, and that’s being generous.

Sorry if this sounds like I’m complaining. I just think his well-being is more important than any fans desire to see him nowadays. He hasn’t owed us anything for decades.

So I replied to a similar comment of yours a few weeks ago regarding this very issue (http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,26082.msg651089.html#msg651089 (http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,26082.msg651089.html#msg651089)). Which of course you ignored as you have a very consistent track record of ignoring my responses to your monotonous tirades about Brian and those he is around. Which is odd, because I feel like I bring up some fairly rational outlooks regarding your posts, and I would like to read any counterpoints you may have...But instead my posts get ignored and soon enough we all get to read the same broken record posts of yours in another thread.

I'm just going to leave a quote from my post a few weeks ago in response to your post here.


I really would like to know your thoughts on this issue. Because I'm finding any logic to be completely missing from your argument...your theory implies that Brian's band has ZERO heart (because even if Brian was continuing the show on his own accord solely just to keep the band employed apparently you think NONE of the band members would quit out of protest because they need the paycheck more than they care about Brian's health/stability (and this is all dependent on this idea that Brian's health/stability is in some mortal jeopardy)?). Also, according to you Brian's family is depending on the paltry paycheck from this touring gig. Again, I posted a few weeks ago that Brian's net worth (not cash he has in the bank, but it still gives a good glimpse at how the family is NOT living from paycheck to paycheck) is $75 Million. So you're completely wrong about that. And you act like the band members aren't capable of finding jobs on their own outside of Brian's band...hell with this hypothesis you grant the band members as much intelligence as you grant Brian...which isn't much.

Unless you can actually back up that Brian's family needs this paycheck, or that Brian isn't controlling anything in his life and his band or roadies or tech people or bus driver are pulling some mischievous strings to keep Brian on tour (all so they don't end up in the welfare line?) with actual evidence, I'd suggest stop making these ridiculous claims. I'd also suggest if you are going to keep making these ridiculous claims, perhaps try responding to my posts with some in-depth thoughts about your theories?

Also, in response to your last line, I think if Carl and Dennis were alive today they would be appalled at the amount of keyboard warriors who allude to the idea that Brian is a damn vegetable and has no control over his life. I think they'd be happy that Brian no longer lives in an environment where Carl and Dennis aren't welcome to see him anytime they want. I think they'd be happy knowing that Brian isn't sitting at home on his ass busy doin' nothin'.

Most of all, I think Carl and Dennis would be happy that Brian has defied all the odds: the drug use, the obesity, the mental illnesses, the Landy years...and is alive and well (and active) at the age of 77.

edit for missing words

I don't consider Brian to be controlled and I believe that this is something that he wants to do. What I don't know is what it is about this that he wants to do and if there are perhaps more beneficial outlets for him to achieve what it is he's trying to get out of these experiences.

The way I see it: If people aren't satisfied with his shows they will stop buying tickets. Any consumer wanting to buy tickets can easily search youtube for recent shows and see if it's something worth going to. As has been mentioned in this thread, some of us go to these shows not to hear Brian sing a pitch-perfect show, but to see the man in real life and be apart of the magic. I think most of us have felt that at his shows regardless of how well Brian is singing. And thus people continue to go to his shows.

We can sit here and complain about shows or speculate about whether Brian should still be doing this stuff, but until ticket sales plunge I don't think it really matters what we think.

As long as Brian is going to do a show that I can get to, I will go. For a long time I just accepted it as fact that I would never get to see Brian, but then that bombshell announcement about the 1999 tour...wow. Having said that, I can honestly say there has never been a Brian show I've been to (and I think I've been to 30, the latest being November 30, 2018) in which I wish I wasn't there; can't say the same for The Beach Boys (or "Beach Boys," as it were).

The thing is...they have, once and for all, GOT to stop doing the Pet Sounds album. I love Pet Sounds as much as the next guy (it's literally the reason my life is the way it is -- and I mean that in the absolute best way imaginable), but....Brian did a Pet Sounds tour in 2000. And his band did the entire album at the TNT Tribute in 2001. And they did Pet Sounds dates here in the States in 2002 again. They did a couple of European Pet Sounds tours in the early 2000s. And there was the 40th anniversary mini-tour in 2006. And then the 50th anniversary tour in 2016. And 2017. And didn't he do some PS shows last year? And then now AGAIN. Brian is CLEARLY bored doing that material. And he's not the only one: even AL is starting to do the bored speak-singing too.

While I'm not looking forward to a Nick-less show (nothing I haven't been to before - I've been to at least one or two Brian concerts in which there wasn't a single Wondermint present -- but at least I knew he'd be back), I'm pretty excited about the Surf's Up / Friends-themed concert.

Okay, but that doesn't address my point, which is not about whether the audience enjoys it. That's a matter of opinion - some feel the magic while my partner refuses to go to anymore shows because the entire experiences makes her feel sad. My point is, if he enjoys the experience, what does he enjoy about it?

Exactly! The sad or even bizarre thing is that some of us have been seeing similar commentary for the 20 years that Brian has been doing shows under his own name. I still have not gotten over seeing him that first time back in 1999 on the first tour, because it was something no one thought would happen, and above that it was actually a terrific show and presentation. Much better than what other official "Beach Boys" shows were at that time. And it kept rolling along.

The most obvious takeaway from this is the obvious fact stated above: If people are not happy with the shows, they will not go to the shows. All this talk about being "forced to tour" or "controlled" into touring is complete bullshit. There is no other word to describe it.

I think of all the difficult questions that may arise about touring, this one might be the easiest to answer. I think BW enjoys that people want to see him and hear the music. The adoration and affirmation that comes from a crowd is magical.

You look at Little Richard, or Chuck Berry, or Jerry Lee Lewis, or BB King -- all of whom toured well into their senior years, and sometimes to less-than-stunning effect -- it's the same thing. At the heart of it, they needed to hear that roar from the audience, that feeling of love from other people. And if you're a neglected or abused child, as most folks in show business are, that unconditional love matters.

In terms of Brian's shows from the last couple of years, I think the quality of performances is inextricably linked to his physical challenges. And I don't know the answer. It seems everyone is trying to do the best they can.

This is probably a piece of speculation that is going a bit too far, I understand if I'm called out for it. I do not believe anyone is making tour but Brian Wilson himself. Is it possible that Brian is forcing himself to do this? Is he actually causing himself physical pain and making himself get out on the road and on stage even when he isn't physically or mentally for it? Pressure to do this could come from a past of NOT doing it that much, the success of recent years, a desire to keep the music alive on stage etc. Maybe those around him should try and convince him of a different performance arrangement. Maybe he could work out a residency arrangement close to home at a theatre somewhere, like Billy Joel has done at MSG and do one or two appearances in big cities elsewhere in the country at his leisure.

I completely agree with the idea that as long as people pay to see Brian perform, then ultimately that is the marker.

I saw him in '99 and it was amazing, even though not perfect...just never thought I'd see him live
Seen him maybe 4 or 5 times since. For me, in recent years, it just got uncomfortable watching him live so I don't go to see him anymore.

I always find the 'control' theories interesting. Since he is a grown ass man, even if he was being controlled, then that would kinda be his choice....

I must say though, it would have been interesting if there was one time in Brian's life when he was completely unattached. No Murry, no Marilyn, no Landy, no Melinda...just to see what choices he would have made, professionally and personally.

While never literally "completely unattached" as in not associating or seeing anyone, I'd say 1980/1981/1982 was pretty close to what you're describing (not passing judgment on Carolyn Williams; I don't think her story has been fully told yet and it's probably a complicated one), and that obviously didn't go too well.

Okay - but that brings me back to my other question which is, are there other ways for him to be fulfilled like that because there are certainly elements about performing that he doesn't like.

Yes, I bought up the residency approach after seeing him last year. Surely some LA-area theater or club would love to have him and the band play every month or two. It would be easier for everyone and be along the lines of what Chuck Berry did for the last decade or so with Blueberry Hill in St. Louis.

Personally speaking, I disagree and I think most people would disagree with that as a principle. For example, if I produced heroin, there would probably be a huge and endless market for it. That being said, I wouldn't personally feel good about continuing to supply people with heroin, even if they wanted it and kept coming back for it.

Now, surely, someone will miss my point here and interpret this as me comparing going to a Brian Wilson concert to taking heroin, which I'm not doing. What I am doing is saying that we don't really accept as a principle that we should keep supplying a product as long as there is a market for it.

We’ve discussed this on and off here over the years, and I’ve always said it’s not out of line to say that there are folks around Brian including Melinda who do assert some level of input/control in the business (and other) sides of things.

Most anyone of Brian’s stature/wealth/fame has people around them doing all sorts of things. Legal and business counsel. Career advice. People pitching ideas. And yes, most “famous” people have people around them *insulating* them from the outside world to varying degrees.

Melinda over the years has been very involved. But guess what? Most of the band members’ partners are involved. Trust me, when there are things pitched out there at BRI, *all* the wives are involved and looped in. Jackie Love is listed as on officer at Mike’s company(ies). Al’s clearly has his wife close to him as well. I dunno about Bruce, but he’s not a corporate member anyway.

Remember that it was many insiders, not just random uninformed fans, pointing out that a big part of C50 back in 2012 was about the Melinda/Jackie relationship. I say this only to highlight that many if not most people in the general type of position that the BB members are in, have a bunch of people around them contributing to making calls and decisions.

I mean, I guess in a perfect world all of the famous music people we are into would also have a business degree, and accounting degree, and be a professional PR person, tour manager, promoter, booker, and so on, and then they could literally control everything themselves. But nobody at the level of these guys actually does that. If they’re actually banking their money and their manager isn’t pilfering it all behind the scenes, I think they probably consider that a huge win in this industry.

I do want to float something here but I'm not talking about Brian Wilson but rather the phenomenon that you have discussed. From a psychological point of view, do you think that these people who need that sort of unconditional love from an audience have properly dealt with the traumatic experiences that they had or are they in some ways deferring properly dealing with it? Obviously someone who drinks or takes drugs or something like that is trying to fill a sort of void that can never be filled in a way that is harmful both to themselves and to the people around them. Consistently doing concerts for thousands of cheering fans is not harmful, of course. But is it perpetuating the same sort of ways of dealing with trauma that allow for the more harmful patterns to come about? I'm sorry if this isn't making sense but I'm just trying to work through this.

EDIT: Like, for example, I think about the Endless Harmony doc where they are talking about Dennis and how much he loved adulation. And it seems to me that this was all wrapped up in a personality that also needed to drugs, alcohol, and sex to fill a kind of void. And psychologists tend to say that you can never quit just one addictive behaviour - like you can't expect to fully drop a drug addiction if you are still gambling all the time. So in order to properly deal with your issues, you have to give up all of it.

A residency is something that should have been explored years ago. As Howie Edelson pointed out, that would have been the best way to continue with the full band past 2012 - a lucrative Las Vegas residency.

While I'm sure Brian could do a once or several times per month residence in the SoCal area, I do think that scenario doesn't address one of the reasons Brian does his tours. Among the many reasons, one reason surely *is* to make money. Doing a gig every month or two in LA won't make them any money. It would be good to stay active. But it wouldn't make money; they'd probably be lucky to break even, especially playing a club type venue. They'd probably also have some band retention issues and more subbing going on, and also any time a band only convenes once every month or two, it doesn't *typically* allow for a particularly adventurous setlist. I know Brian's band can whip something up *very fast*, so anything would be possible.

That type of sporadic touring is what Al did for many years in the 2000s, and while part of why he was often relegated to the "meat and potatoes" numbers was due to the type of shows being booked (fairs, etc.), it was also a case of not having a bunch of rehearsal time to start adding a bunch of deep cuts.

Now, bringing up Al though does remind us of his "Storytellers" gigs, and it's worth noting that Al is likely not really making any substantial money doing those gigs. He *has* to be doing them for the fun of it, and to just be out there.

So if Brian was up for that sort of a gig, then that might be a good thing to try out.

How about considering a simple explanation - That which suggests Brian for decades was known as a recluse who stayed in bed and wore a bathrobe and would not take the stage, then did a solo tour in 1999 where he was hesitant and understandably nervous, but did the tour and subsequent tours to rave reviews and a terrific (and supportive) band of top-notch musicians who could play all of his music...and discovered he liked interacting with his audiences and fans as a stage performer.

I always wondered if Brian was trying to make up for lost time from all of those recluse years where he only made sporadic appearances and reconnecting with his fan base as performer to audience, and in the process found he enjoyed it. And the fact that he was not tied down to a notion of playing with "The Beach Boys" according to or connected with Mike after 1998 and could do his shows and play his songs with his own band for his fans...this going back to that first tour in 1999. No limits.

That's pure opinion to say "the best way to continue" would have been a Vegas residency. The one part of that which no supporters of that idea address is how many fans would not be able to afford to take a vacation and travel to Vegas versus seeing the show close to their own homes, and also the stagnation that might set in with doing show after show on the same stage with the same basic layout. Part of the touring life which some performers actually enjoy is getting to travel to different locales and meet different fans and see the sights in different areas. You can't do that when you have a residency that has you showing up at the same stage, same place and time every night. Some performers can do that and enjoy it...no need to list them. But others don't. I consider the notion that fans have been saying Brian and perhaps others in the band may be "bored" doing the Pet Sounds album live...how about doing the same show night after night on the same stage for fans in Vegas who can afford to fly there to see it?

In terms of how much Brian “wants” to be touring, I’ve never understood why some folks find it hard to believe that it can kinda be both at the same time. That is, Brian likes some aspects of touring and not others. I’ve pitched this sort of rhetorical question in the past: Have you ever not wanted to do something, but know you should do it, or that despite not wanting to do it you’ll probably actually enjoy it and/or get something out of it? And have you ever had someone around you helping you decide whether to do it? Maybe someone egging you on or helping to motivate you?

Many folks in the know have often pointed out that when Brian *really* doesn’t want to do something, he makes sure that’s what happens.

That doesn’t mean he’s never had any doubts or apprehension about touring, or days when we’d rather be at home eating a steak and watching TV.

Yes - for example, I don't really look forward to reading a book like Les Miserables or War and Peace but I do because I think it will make me a more fulfilled person in the long run, intellectually and spiritually. Personally, I don't see this as the same thing as performing a concert. Even here, nobody on this page has suggested that reasons he is doing it is for a kind of spiritual or edifying fulfillment, but rather, he wants unconditional love from strangers and money. If those were the reasons I had for pushing myself into doing things that I sometimes didn't want to do, then I would hope I would re-evaluate my priorities and either not do those things or find what is actually important about doing them.

Yes, of course it’s opinion.

By “best way to continue” with the reunion band, what I meant was the best way to simply *keep the reunion going.* Of course there would be pros and cons to that scenario. I’ve pointed out many, many times when discussing the “Vegas residency” theory that a main drawback for fans would be that most of them would not be able to see the show. And yes, while Vegas residencies and shows in general aren’t as short as they were 30 years ago, there would certainly not be any three-hour, 61-song setlists on a Vegas residency. But it would allow for plenty of rotation of songs.

Now, a lot of those theoretical discussions didn’t necessarily involve planting in Vegas permanently with no “road dates” so to speak. But go back and read Howie’s posts on the subject. He was talking to people inside the organization, and people in the industry. “Doing Vegas” would have been about holding the reunion together, by eliminating a lot of the political/organizational stuff that was clearly causing kerfuffles in the “reunion” machine.

The idea would be that the residence would, first, secure them a TON of cash up front most likely. Then, they’d start raking in the money and not have nearly as much promoter/agent/family business advisor stuff going on. They could have done a few more international legs in 2013, maybe another round of US dates to hit markets they didn’t hit in 2012, and then they could have settled into a Vegas residency, where they could book studio time in Vegas and work on albums, and they’d surely still have off time for Mike to do private/corporate gigs and whatnot.

Is a Vegas residency what Mike would have wanted? Maybe/probably not. I don’t think Brian or Al or David would have balked at the idea; I don’t think any of them are *so fixated* on the idea of traveling that they would have passed up good money and a chance to keep the reunion band together.

But yes, it’s all opinion and theoreticals that largely don’t matter anymore.

Sure, and I get what you are saying...and let's face it we encounter inferior goods and services pretty much every day of our lives, and some we continue to consume, and some we decide that no, there isn't any value for us in purchasing. And some still, are removed from the marketplace for legal, ethical and safety reasons. Some continue to exist in 'black' markets, obviously based on demand.

I guess my point is that since everything is subjective, there may be a lot of people who want to buy tickets to see Brian perform, regardless of the quality of 'his' performance: vocally or otherwise. A hardcore Brianista might be happy to shell out big bucks just to be in the same venue as Brian...and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that.

Well, I know you didn't say otherwise, but again personally I do think it's a bit strange if people are paying money just to be in the same venue as someone else. Again, if I was doing that, I would seriously sit down and re-evaluate some things about who I am but I'm not going to put that on someone else.

Furthermore, in a very hypothetical situation, if I felt that my buying a ticket to see someone do a concert was preventing that person from dealing with their issues in the healthiest way possible, then I might actually consider there being something wrong with that. To give an example that some of you might know, there's a comedian named Artie Lange who is a very troubled person. I don't follow his constant activities so he might be in jail now or he might not be. For years, many people close to Lange told him that he had to stop doing stand-up shows because it was a big factor in him turning back to drug and alcohol abuse; however, for him, the money factor was just too great. To pass up these shows meant passing up big money. But I think it is absolutely the case that buying a ticket to see his shows was in some ways contributing to his issues.

Some interesting questions and theoretical situations.

Ultimately, though, Brian is 77 and has limited time. As do we all. He and those close to him have to decide how to best spend that time.

I don't know that intensive therapy now would make a real difference. When it might have, he had Landy instead.

TBH, the shows have been more challenging for me since the BB reunion ended. The addition of Al and Blondie fundamentally changed the shows and BW's involvement in them. Now, that might have been necessary to keep solo touring a going concern. But to me, there hasn't been a big difference in the shows since then.

I'll agree to disagree with the ideas of doing a Vegas stint as a way to hold the reunion together. If we're supposed to believe Mike's accounts of how it all happened, the C50 was all but done as soon as he started booking one-offs like Nutty Jerry's and the shows in Central or South America that never happened. Mike was out, over and done as soon as the last UK show, and that's how it was. There were offers on the table for one-off stadium gigs, high profile venues, that would have justified the continuation more than a perhaps months-long Vegas contract, and Mike wanted to do his own thing. It really was as simple as that.

Vegas residencies in general also depend on a certain image or feel to the shows, if that makes sense. The artists with recent successful Vegas residencies more often if not usually feature more lavish stage shows, choreography, visual effects, big costume changes, etc. The Beach Boys - let's be honest - get up on stage and play the music. Brian, Al, Blondie...same thing. People don't go there for visual spectacles, costume changes, lavish sets and plots...they go to hear the music.

Remember the dancing girls Mike had on stage with the band...would a Vegas stint of any significance have made them return to that kind of schtick to attract a "Vegas audience" beyond the diehard fanbase? Would there be a draw for a fan from the Northeast to see a BB's or Brian residency show in Vegas one year, and return to Vegas to see basically the same show later that year?

I never agreed with the Vegas thing because the Beach Boys are not a Vegas type of act, Brian's solo shows are not a Vegas style act, and I'd hate to see the Beach Boys return to the dancing and cheerleaders and hula skirts and gaudy fake palm trees and surfboards on stage if they had to do this to shape a Vegas style stage act. We're fortunate all that stuff went away when it did. (or is that wheeeeennnnnnn it did?). There is something to be said when a legacy act takes to the stage and plays their music for the fans, minus all the schtick and visual bombast.

 

You could make the same case about any number of entertainers through the years. Look at Britney Spears, who just had a very successful and profitable Vegas residency, after some very disturbing mental health related meltdowns, followed by even more of the same after the residency ended. Were people buying tickets to her shows contributing to all she was dealing with?

I'd also look further back to the 50's and 60's - Were people watching TV and laughing at Oscar Levant and Jonathan Winters, to name two, contributing to their mental health issues? These two were hilarious guests, however they also were dealing with severe mental health issues that required treatment at psychiatric facilities, and in some appearances viewers would watch and laugh at Oscar Levant literally zoning out on TV due to his issues, and laughing like it was his schtick or some kind of a comedy bit.

But maybe - and I honestly don't know - performing for the public was how they were dealing with the issues. The power to make people happy and make them laugh is a really, really strong emotion just the same, and I don't know how much I'd guilt audiences who would go see them no matter what their reasons.

I think that you could make that case with the people you mention, yes.

And I'm not trying to make people feel guilty about this - people can make those decisions for themselves. But I just want to put a bit of pressure on your point that "performing for the public was how they were dealing with the issues." In many ways, that's part of what I have been touching on. In fact, Brian Wilson himself has said that when he is on stage, he doesn't hear the voices in his head as much. Now on the surface, we can look at that and say, that's great! Being on stage is helping. On the other hand, I think some people might look at that and say that he (or, take whoever you want, Britney Spears, Rodney Dangerfield, etc.) is using the stage as a temporary fix and a way of avoiding confronting their demons. Indeed, someone like say Rodney Dangerfield probably did feel best when he was on stage but he was ultimately very unhappy throughout his life because and maybe it was because he used audience laughter the way other people use drugs and alcohol (also, he used drugs and alcohol the way other people use drugs and alcohol). So that leads me back to my initial point which is whether in any of these cases there were other things that these performers could have done that would have been helpful to them.

Something I’ve realized as I’ve gotten older is that basically our entire entertainment infrastructure in this country — music, movies, TV, theater, you name it — is built on the backs of desperately unhappy people. Normal, well-adjusted folks are not driven to seek out audiences at all costs.

Yes, I think there's a lot of truth to this.

Honestly I wouldn’t be surprised if that’s the case

I believe that often the personality profile of many of these types of performers have large amounts of dissociation, aka being on stage is self-understood as being someone completely different than who you have to deal with on a daily basis.  This can catch up with them, be very exhausting, and make the life of a performance artist very difficult and susceptible to burnout.  I think this ties in with what Wirestone posted.

Don't wanna get this thread too bogged down with a bunch of talk of what the reunion tour should have done seven years ago (and believe me, I can go on and on when it comes to that subject!), but when I was discussing a Vegas residency, I was talking pretty much exclusively about the reunion lineup. I don't think any of the respective offshoot bands (Brian or Mike, or any other iteration) would sustain the larger, high-end, multi-year contract lucrative residencies.

I'll also say that Vegas shows now, actual rock/pop concerts, are not what they were like 30-40+ years ago. Had the reunion band taken on a Vegas residency, it wouldn't have been back to cheerleaders and fake palm trees. It would have and could have been the C50 stage set (I guess minus the "50" logo eventually?), and could have been the same show. Yes, on the shorter end. But Vegas isn't 50 cent hot dog buffets and dancers and jugglers roaming around on stage. When it comes to rock shows anyway. They would just be doing the same show more or less, just planted down in a small arena type venue (or large theater, whatever one wants to call it).

Here's a couple posts from Howie describing some scenarios (which I agree could have included mixing in regular tour legs rather than staying exclusively in Vegas):

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,18325.msg477554.html#msg477554

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,18325.msg477568.html#msg477568

Now, back to Brian, I do think that, assuming they'd want to forego the 2016/2017 format of doing like 100 shows per year, they could seek out some sort of residency. It could be in Vegas if on the smaller side, or in the LA area. I think the reasons for Brian doing a residency would be pretty different from what we've discussed in the past for the reunion band. For Brian, it would be more about just staying active and getting some of the benefits he wants out of playing live.

I like to think that Brian is actually happy on the road - looking out the window ever so often to see the countryside from the tour bus, sitting in his leather chair watching some tv, eating different kinds of food from all over the country, and of course getting into the rhythm of the show during soundcheck (where I've seen him really active and joyful about performing with his band). I think you raise some good points to ponder, especially that he may be causing himself mental and physical pain. However, I will counter that by saying that Brian just took himself off touring for a while because he was having mental issues...and I think it was easily deduced that the mental issues he started having were the result of back surgery gone awry (and the meds following)...not the touring. So obviously he tries to keep his mental health in check. And like any man he could just be stubborn about his pain from the back surgery...is that good for him? Well on the flip side he could be at home not really interacting with the world around him and his back would still be hurting the hell out of him. So I'm inclined to think that at least mentally he is better off on the road than sitting around in his house.

And here's another thing: perhaps Brian hearing applause and cheers is enjoyable to him - especially after NPP. Remember when he recorded NPP and he got trashed both by supposed "fans" of his and the music press? One chipper music critic said that NPP reminded him of an old wheelchair bound man (Brian) being wheeled out to Thanksgiving dinner and being "forced" the interact with people at the table...how condescending is that? And imagine if Brian himself read that? Anywho, if he was aware of any of that controversy he probably does like hearing some recognition for his work these days. Just speculation of course.

Does anyone think that if Brian did stop touring, there would be enough of a market for a second BB band for Al (and Blondie and/or David Marks, because he occasionally has done shows with Al) to continue on with part of Brian’s band and Al’s 2-piece Storytellers Band?

Lineup as such:
Al - vocals, guitars, banjo, double bass
Blondie - vocals, guitars, tambourine?, bass?
David - vocals, guitars (optional, because he hasn’t done many shows outside of 1997-1999 and 2012-2013)
Matt Jardine - vocals, percussion, guitar
Jeff Alan Ross - backing vocals, keyboards (optional, probably too many people already)
Billy Hinsche - vocals, keyboards, vibes, guitars
Darian - vocals, keyboards, vibes, tannerin (assuming it’s owned by Brian and not Probyn, and could be loaned), percussion
Ed Carter or Mike D’Amico - bass
Bobby Figueroa or Mike D’Amico - drums
Paul von Mertens - saxophones, flutes, harmonicas

I would go to this show. I saw Al live earlier this year, and it was great. I'm going to an M+B show later this month. I haven't gone to a Brian Wilson show since 2016, and after hearing clips of Brian singing live over the last three years, I think it would take a last tour announcement for me to go back.

As a one off tribute deal? Sure, but I don’t think the numbers would stack up for anything ongoing. Brian has ‘legend’ status due to his work. Al, by far the best voice still going, doesn’t.

I think Al has hit the sweet spot tour wise with his story teller theme.

Just curious to hear others’ ideas and thought maybe Al’s demand would increase if Brian wasn’t touring.


Agreed. Unfortunately I missed Al this year (I was in Nashville when he came fairly close to me). I’ve seen M&B in 2015 and I will again and I will again in a week or so. I’ve seen Brian, Al, and Blondie in 2017 (Al was great, disappointed with Brian because the most recent performances I had heard were from C50, and happy with Blondie’s singing but the solos were too long for me — but it did help me get introduced to Wild Honey and Feel Flows)

I don’t know what I’ll do for a Brian show. I think it’d have to be extremely close for me to go again...I considered going to a rescheduled PS date which will be next year but decided against it because of the fairly long drive...that being said, I would love to see the new Something Great from 68 show. Maybe I can catch a train to NYC to see the Beacon show.

Exactly.  What better way to honor Nicky's memory than to play the music he loved?  With the audience there, it's one big wake to celebrate a person's life.  And think about the alternative - if they canceled, they would just be sitting around in hotel rooms in a city far from home - it's not like they couild easily get together with family and friends or do things that they could do if they were closer to home.
 
Grieving takes many different forms.  A colleague of mine lost his teenage daughter to cancer after a long, painful, heartbreaking course of treatment.  He was already on leave, and chose to stay home the day after she died - he wanted to be home where he felt her spirit.  His wife and their other teen children - including the twin of the girl who died - chose to go to work and school.  They wanted to be out of the house, in a place with routines and work that for a few hours would take their minds off of what they had been through.  All of them did the right thing for themselves.  

A thousand times yes.  Why IS it so hard to imagine that Brian probably likes some things about touring but doesn’t like other things?  Maybe some days he’s into it and other days he’s not?  It shouldn’t be a hard concept to grasp.  I’m sure he enjoys the camaraderie of being with the band.  I’m sure he enjoys the fact that audiences love him and his music.   On the other hand, I’m sure there are times when he’s tired or he’s not feeling good and he’d rather not get up onstage and perform for two hours.

Aren’t we all like this?  Some days I go to work and enjoy myself and get lots done and feel really motivated.  Other days I’d kill to stay home eating a steak and watching TV.  Life is not black and white.  Touring is probably not black and white for Brian. 

There’s also another factor that hasn’t really been touched upon which is that I suspect at Brian’s age, one is likely quite aware that the years of being able to be out on the road are probably very very limited.  I suspect that Brian (and all of the BBs, to be honest) are painfully aware that if they stop touring now, that that’s probably it for good.  And that must be a painful thing to contemplate. 

I see so many people here say they go to Brian's shows not for a great performance by the man, but just to be in his presence, just to be bask in his glow. Do people say the same thing about Bob Dylan when he gives a bad performance? Do people go to Paul McCartney's shows "just to see a Beatle"? "oh, his voice is gone, and his new songs are shite, but he's Paul McCartney! He's a legend! He's a Beatle!" I've only been to one concert where I had to use that kind of logic to justify the expense: Wilson Pickett, just about a year before he died. I knew nothing about his health problems at the time, all I knew is that I went to his show expecting him to blow the roof off the place with songs like In the Midnight Hour, Funky Broadway, Mustang Sally, and Land of 1000 Dances. Instead, what we got was Mr. Pickett coming out, singing a couple songs, then ceding the stage to his backing musicians for 5 or 10 minutes. Then he came back and sang another song. Then he left the stage again. This went on for over an hour. I thought maybe he was sick and had to run to the bathroom every 5 minutes. Nope. One of the security guards said he was just sitting backstage while his band and singers carried on. The show ended abruptly, and there was a lot of grumbling in the crowd about what a disappointing show it had been. Some wanted their money back. Maybe I should have told them "stop your complaining, you were in the presence of a legend! You should be thankful he sang you anything at all!"
Again, none of us knew about his health problems, and in retrospect, I feel kind of sad for him, but that's why all performers need someone around them who can tell them the truth. When you can't cut it anymore, it's better to retire; people will still have the records, the cd's, the videos.

Wanted to give a quick recap of Friday night’s show in upstate NY at Del Lago casino.  This was my 11th time seeing Brian over a 19 year span and first since 2016.  I originally wasn’t going to attend after reading this thread, hearing about Brian’s recent cancellations due to mental instability, back problems, etc.  Finally my mother who is also a big Brian fan convinced me that maybe this would be the last chance to see Brian and it being only a 2+ hour car ride each way that we should go.  

I had very low expectations going in and hoped that my last time seeing Brian wouldn’t be a sad memory.  Well if that was indeed the last time I ever get to see Brian, Im ok with it.  I say this because it was truly one of the most emotionally uplifting performances I have ever witnessed.  Great art has the capacity to touch us deeply and this concert certainly did just that.  From the opening dedication to the late great Nicky Wonder, I had quite a cascade of feelings.  Seeing Brian helped onstage by 2 others was hard to watch.   Brian was on for the most part early but seemed to drift in and out at times.  When Brian was not as active I sat back and appreciated this incredible group of musician’s talents and felt the love and respect they have for the man and this music.  I also found their performance nothing short of triumphant in light of suddenly losing a dear friend and musical partner just days before.  This band deserves their own documentary to celebrate their achievements over the last 20 years.

I was so happy and relieved to see the crowd enthusiastically cheering, dancing, hooting and giving the love right back to the band and Brian.  This music is certainly timeless and will go on even after we’re all gone.  One highlight for me was Brian singing God Only Knows.  As he sang, it hit me.  Brian wasn’t singing about a person that saved him, he was singing about how only God knows what he’d be without music.  As he has struggled through 77 years, it is music that has always been there for him.  
Darian’s Darlin’ was a big high point as it is my mom’s favorite song and he absolutely hit it out of the park, as always.  Matt’s energy, charisma, falsetto and lead vocals are another treat.  He also did a great job covering for Brian when there were any missed entrances.  Paul’s sax was top notch as was his enthusiasm, it is truly infectious.  Probyn is the man playing so many tasty and intricate guitar and horn parts.  The rhythm section had me moving in my seat as I vibrated to their groove.  Al is all class and his voice never seems to age.  Blondie added some high powered distortion and his rendition of Feel Flows would make it’s author proud.  

Having said all that, my favorite moment came after Fun,Fun, Fun.  We were all standing and ready for the guys to take a bow and be finished when Brian said something to Matt, and Matt was like “sure let’s do it”.  Suddenly Darian started to play the opening chords to Love and Mercy and Brian delivered a beautiful and heartfelt rendition that brought me to tears.  Afterwards, we again gave them all a standing ovation.  Again Brian was helped offstage rather awkwardly, as he stepped gingerly towards the darkness, he paused and gave us all a wave.  I found that to be quite symbolic of Brian’s life.  His will to go on in the face of tremendous adversity is quite an inspiration for us all.  If that’s the last time I ever see Brian, I think he gave me one heck of a send off.  Thanks Brian and your incredible band for giving such love to a world that needs it more than ever.

Thanks for sharing...this is why we still go to shows. Call us Brianistas. Whatever. Brian won’t be touring many more years. Some of us may not be around much longer either , either due to age or illness. I myself am not well at all. I’ll leave it at that.  If seeing Brian gives us joy, let us have it. If Brian decides he’s done, when that time comes, then that’s it. That day has not come as of yet

Not asking this to be mean, but just to be curious. You’re obviously a longtime fan. Have you ever been to a Brian show over the last 20 years?

Nobody’s talked about this yet...

Per Facebook Brian will be playing all of Friends and Wild honey in its entirety!

When we say we go to see Brian Wilson not to hear a pitch-perfect Brian, but to see the man himself, we also mean that he has a backing-band that Paul McCartney has said is the best backing band in the world. We also mean we get to see a man who Bob Dylan himself reveres. We get to hear Al Jardine who doesn't sound a day over 30. We get to hear Blondie rock the hell out on songs. If we stick around long enough we can interact with some of the band (who are really the nicest people to talk with!). The last Brian Wilson concert I went to I had the time of my life. Was Brian in tip-top shape? No! It honestly didn't matter to me and to the hundreds of other people singing along to every song they were playing. Ya see, most people who go to Brian Wilson concerts aren't wearing tin-foil hats spending day after day on the internet posting about how Brian's band and Melinda are using Brian like a Manchurian candidate to harvest billions of dollars in profit from the Pet Sounds tour (so the band, Melinda, and Brian's family don't end up begging for money on the street) - most of the people who go to his shows are strictly fans of Brian and The Beach Boys. And the fact Brian/the band keep touring is a good sign that people are still liking what they hear/see...so it honestly doesn't matter what you, I, or anyone on this website thinks.

Anyways, you can say "When you can't cut it anymore, it's better to retire", and all of us on our computers at home can waste time speculating this or that about whether Brian should be touring....simple fact is that Brian is 77 years old, alive and well, and we should be thankful for whatever is keeping the man going.

Also, reposting my previous reply to you in this thread:

Seriously!? I would love to hear that. Friends is my second favorite BB album...Is this a one time thing? Or will it become regular?

If it's the post at the link below, I think it's only referring to the Spotify playlist having both full albums.

Considering the length that Brian's show would be on the Zombies tour, I don't think they could fit both albums plus some hits.

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10158163863962241&id=34250497240

Last nights show at del Lago casino in waterloo ny was meh. Love Brian, love the band. But it’s time to load up the woody and surf off into the sunset.

There was a post sharing it that had implied otherwise but now I think the person was overzealous. Dammit :lol

People have complained about Dylan shows for decades. He often plays smaller venues than BW these days.

Complaints have increased about McCartney’s shows over the last five years or so, as he lost his voice.

BW, given his history, is doing well enough. The layperson would probably not be able to tell the difference between his shows from the last decade or so. Folks buy tickets because he’s a legend. They know — and have known for many years — that he does a very particular kind of thing.

Because this is what they're seeing: a man who looks like he's in pain being helped on stage to barely sing through songs, then sit without much emotion while his band mates bounce around him, until the end of the show when it appears as if he couldn't want to get off the stage fast enough.

I'm not saying this provides proof that he doesn't like touring but you can't be surprised that people are reaching that conclusion based on appearances.

I went to McCartney's last show of the tour in London earlier this year - he was in fine fettle, and they only brought out Ringo Starr for the encore. An entire stadium lost their sh*t.

Any issues he has with not putting in 100% onstage are nothing compared to Brian! The guy sings and plays for 3 hours without taking a sip of water.

I had nosebleed absolutely-back-of-house seats to McCartney a few years back and thought the show was a lot of fun. Yeah, his voice isn't all there but they double him up with people that can sing. It works out fine.

Can you elaborate why it was so meh?

Losing Nicky. Brian’s issues. The venue. Just wasnt as great as they usually are. The band and Al were great and always have been, just an off night.

Except for the part about being helped on/off stage, the rest could describe how Brian was when he started touring 20 years ago.  I've seen Brian 29 times since 1999, and it was rough in the beginning - very "deer in the headlights".  He got more and more comfortable over time, but we were never going to get a Brian who was a traditional front man.  If you want to see Brian in concert, you have to accept the Brian that you get. 

Exactly. When those of us who are fans of Brian’s shows say that “he’s looks comfortable” or is engaged, we know that we are judging him by his own standards rather than comparing him to Cousin Mike (which, frankly, is a ridiculous thing to do).

I'm curios to hear from anybody who saw Brian in the 1970's and 80's, and how it compares to the Brian of 1999 to today. I've read about Brian being very animated in the 1970's at certain shows.

(http://giphygifs.s3.amazonaws.com/media/L4TYWQn8rALRu/giphy.gif)

I post this, somewhat, tongue-in-cheek.

I saw him for the first time in 2000 and he sang every song on stage, made an effort in singing the songs well (I still remember how the crowd cheered when he really held that line in "Don't Talk"), got up to play the bass at the end of the set, and was on stage until the very end of the show. I do think that's quite different from what is going on onstage now but that's not really my point. If you see Brian onstage and conclude that he enjoys what he's doing, that's fine. My point is that we shouldn't be surprised if people are reaching different conclusions.

It’s really a shame his decline went so fast after 2012 when he actually could sing the melodies, this is painful to see sadly.

I saw Brian with the Beach Boys a couple times in the 80s. The first time was May 1983, he had slimmed down a lot - although not as much as he eventually would. For most of the show, he sat at his grand piano, didn't sing a lot. IIRC (and I could dig up the video) he sang the middle 8 of Surfer Girl; started to sing Wouldn't it Be Nice, but gave up, and Al had to take over. The one moment that stands out is when Al sang Runaway, and Brian got up from his piano to share a mic with Al, and was kind of dancing. He seemed to be enjoying the moment.
Second show was in 1985. For whatever reason, Carl was absent, and Brian took his place. I remember him playing one of those 80's keytars - keyboard held like a guitar. He sang solo on God Only Knows, and actually came out front to do it. Later in the show, when the band were playing a run of fast songs, he was dancing with the other band members. I'd never seen Brian that animated.

I saw him in 78 on the infamous Australia/New Zealand tour. There is enough footage from that period to draw your own conclusions, and besides, Carl was the one having issues, again well documented.

My feeling was always this. When he started solo I thought if the opportunity came up, he owed the fans and himself a decent Beach Boys tour. He was that good and confident (for him). That opportunity came in 2012 successfully. I never had any real doubts it was going to be a one off only because his touring style and demands is completely different from his cousins.

After saying 2012 was it for me I somewhat reluctantly went to the opening Final PS show I 2016 at the request of my son. Who wouldn’t want to share an experience like that? That show, while ok, confirmed what we see now. As I said in an earlier post his stage manner and singing has deteriorated 25% at least in the last 3 years. Probably the same again since the C50.

While I appreciate those just wanting to see him under any circumstances, the guy owes me zip. I’ll continue playing the music, listening on Spotify etc and if he makes some money through those mediums, more power to him, but I can not see him the way Little Richard, Chuck Berry played their final shows or Jerry Lee Lewis still does. Sorry.

I completely understand this. I became a fan around 2009 - just a measly 10 years ago - so I think any chance I can get I love to see the guy to capture some of the magic. But for those fans who saw Brian in better shape and then to watch the performances deteriorate to a level you don't dig, I completely get not wanting to see such a thing.

And I agree, he owes us zip...I support him if he tours or not. I just want the guy to do whatever keeps him happy and healthy.

I get you, I saw Chuck Berry as he was opening for Status Quo back in 08? (something), and it was not fun to see.

 Oh! So simple, the days coming when you or I won't be able to see him again.  Count the days!

I finally got to see Brian Wilson last night at Blossom Music Center, in Cuyahoga Falls, Ohio. He played with the Blossom Festival Orchestra, an offshoot of the Cleveland Orchestra, which really enriched the music. I was a little worried the orchestra would overpower the Brian's band, but they did a great job balancing the sound.

I thought Brian sounded really sharp throughout most of the concert. His most cringey moments came during the Pet Sounds portion, and I can see why many on this thread have speculated that he might be bored singing this stuff. However, throughout the rest of the show, he seemed really on.

The set list posted online looks accurate to me: https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/brian-wilson/2019/blossom-music-center-cuyahoga-falls-oh-39f895f.html (https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/brian-wilson/2019/blossom-music-center-cuyahoga-falls-oh-39f895f.html) I was so pumped that they played Heroes and Villains. I was hoping he'd close with Love and Mercy, but the band chose to end on the high note of Fun, Fun, Fun.

They dedicated the performance to Nicky Wonder, and his guitar was set up on stage. They did not play the Pet Sounds instrumental, but took that time to introduce the orchestra and talk about the loss of their band mate. Overall, it was a great show.

I can't speak to Dylan; haven't listened to his performance in a while. But McCartney's voice has noticeably deteriorated in the last number of years. He sounds *much* worse than he did back on his first few tours back in 2002/03/04/05. Still, as strained as he sounds on a lot of his show, I wouldn't say his vocals are anywhere near as challenged as Brian's. And for a bunch of reasons, McCartney's show is just on a different level. He's still filling arenas and stadiums.

Up until several years ago, I used to argue Brian's voice wasn't hugely different as compared to when he first came out to tour. But I'd say that has changed now. He sounds much more challenged now, and for the past few years, than he did in 2012 and certainly the late 2000s.

He does still sell tickets to a largely understanding, sympathetic, forgiving audience, and that will continue to help him (as does having Al, Matt, Darian, and Blondie to sing some leads), but I don't think it's going to hold out forever if he continues to have more challenged performances. Hardcore fans, even if they don't actively or aggressively criticize, will continue to pass on attending shows in larger numbers, and the less-informed fans that *do* attend will come away more and more perplexed and potentially unsettled.

It's all relative. After Brian's June announcement, I was fully prepared for more shows to be canceled and for touring to pretty much cease. So Brian being back out there and, it seems, at least not notably *worse off* in vocal performance or demeanor compared to past shows from the past year or so, is definitely good to see. But at *best*, it's not getting noticeably worse so far. It has not improved either. Brian and his camp can of course do whatever they want, but as an observer, I think it's worth pointing out that they still have some clear opportunity to strategize on how to perhaps not completely cut off touring, but slowly back away from aggressive tour dates and not reach what currently seems like the inevitable point where some unsympathetic concert reviewers are going to start more loudly complaining about the state of Brian's singing and demeanor at these shows.

Obviously only knowing what I know about how things are going, I think a potentially good move would be to finish out the dates for 2019 that are scheduled (I think the Zombies tour will feature shorter shows, and the other guys in the band will probably sing a good amount of the "Friends" and "Surf's Up" material), and then maybe Brian can concentrate more on another studio project, and perhaps they can get this "Long Promised Road" documentary up and going.

Well, I somehow missed that the June 18th Huber Heights, OH show was rescheduled to August 13th, so I've added that to the top post schedule.

here's Brian in 1999 singing Caroline, No: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhWznlP9_54

Looks like he's been to the Bruce Johnston school of live keyboard performance

Wow hard to believe that video and performance of Caroline no was 20 years ago. What a difference between then and now.

That was incredible!  :o He actually did the falsetto parts!

Do you mind if I ask you about the 1978 show? Which one was it? Was Carl noticeably in bad shape?

Just so we're all on the same page here, some recent good-quality footage of Brian in concert and the studio.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVYqA6dtoPE

This is BW and band at the Culture Palace, in Tel Aviv, Israel, on July 8, 2018.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x0BMgIH493s

Brian, joined by Blondie and Nick (RIP) in the studio back in February.

You can draw your own conclusions from these clips. Sometimes he's better, sometimes he's worse. No doubt back pain and mental challenges can limit the quality of his performances. But I think these video clips show an engaged, shy, but incredibly brave and gifted man continuing to do his best for audiences that adore him.

He's not what he was 20 years ago, or even 10. But he's out there, and he cares. I don't know what the future holds -- how much or little touring or recording. But I love what this man has done and who he is.

Amen!

Thanks for that Wirestone.

Christchurch. First ever concert at 16, young, naive and unaware of the history of the guys on stage other than they were sooooo old.  ;) It is only all these years later with the internet and footage on demand that we can appreciate what was going on in artists lives behind the scenes. At 16 in conservative NZ it was a given that all these tours were drug and booze filled orgies whether that was the case or not. (We now know that was often the case)
Anyway, to me having nothing to compare them with other than the original records on the radio, they sounded ok. The atmosphere at an outdoor gig was huge. As I have said here before, it was filmed, played once on our limited state run (at the time) television system, then archived and sits to this day.

Apparently this is from the show but it’s so average I have never listened right through.

https://youtu.be/BgXCpFCaQGs

Edit: Carl specifically sounds fine singing Darlin at 3.50 and GOKs at 15.20.

I saw Brian perform with the Beach Boys in 1978 or 1979 at Rockland Community College in New York.  He spent the entire concert behind a piano smoking a cigarette.  I don't think he ever took a lead vocal.

Nice performance, similar to how he sang it in the Don Was film. One very minor complaint: i'm not into the thing I see many bands do where they take these originally 2 and a half minute songs and extend them. Is that the reason there is that cd series titled "extended versions"? lo. But Brian sings great here, and yes, I did notice his keyboard playing - but I expected that. Going to see the post-Carl BB's for the first time next month, will be watching Bruce closely - and listening. :)

Thanks, Clay. You said it perfectly. The man is out there, and I think, while he's not the least bit political, he wants to spread "love and mercy" at this horrible time. He's a sponge, emotionally. He feels the ugliness. I'm so glad he has his band to support him through these times, and so sad at the loss of Nicky.

I was sat stage side at the Albert Hall, London show in June. I challenge you to hear an audible keyboard note outside of Disney Girls. There were fingers going down with no sound coming out.

I guess these are my thoughts...

I've been loyally following Brian in concert since 1999. Before 1999, I was resigned to the "fact" that I would just never see him in person, let alone see him do a concert. But since 1999, I've seen him do about 30 shows. I've seen him in California, Wisconsin, Illinois, Indiana, Pennsylvania, New Jersey, New York, and even Toronto. There are those who say "LET BRIAN RETIRE!!" Well...nobody's stopping Brian from retiring but Brian himself. History has proven that if Brian truly doesn't want to do something, he doesn't. (Remember the passengerless boarding pass in the airplane?) The exception, of course, being escaping from Landy, who was his legal guardian and could have had him committed. You are never going to convince my ass that Brian is being *forced* to do that, while a huge band and crew just sit back and let it happen (especially Darian -- there's no way he'd ever want to see Brian going against his will). Why does Brian keep going out? I don't know. Maybe he was telling the truth when he said a few years ago, "If I don't tour, I'll just be moping around the house feeling sorry for myself because I'm 74 years old" or something to that effect. Maybe it's to get away from Melinda and/or the kids and/or the dogs. Maybe it's because he likes the steaks. Maybe he likes traveling, and touring is a way to get paid to travel. Or that he's grown so accustomed to being around the people who support him on the road that he doesn't want to give that up. I don't know.

The last time I went to a Brian Wilson concert was November 30, 2018. I watched Brian wince in obvious pain as he walked to his keyboard, being helped by Paul. I wished he was in a wheelchair. I heard him sloppily speak-sing the songs from Pet Sounds (it wasn't a Pet Sounds show but they still did a handful of PS songs) -- and I noticed Al was starting to do that too, by the way. Brian's cues were off. Interestingly, though, he was pretty strong and on cue when he sang songs from the 2005 Christmas album. But as much as I hate to use the word "worst," it was by far the worst I'd ever seen Brian.

But I still walked away from that concert feeling thrilled. I guess maybe it's because my dog had died the night before, and music has healing powers. I felt so amazing after that show. It didn't matter that Brian was off for a good deal of the show. It was then that I actually first said out loud that if the band were to go out and tour without Brian, I'd still pay the money to go to their shows -- that's how good they are.

I'm looking forward to seeing Brian and the guys in September (but NOT looking forward to hear "Butcher's Tale," "Friends of Mine," and "This Will Be Our Year" -- yup, I had to say it). If Brian does a show that I can get to, I'm going to see it while I can. (I could have bought a plane ticket to LAX and seen Wondermints at the Knitting Factory in 2002, and now more than ever I regret not doing that.)

As for how the shows are so far? Well, I've heard that Nick left a gaping hole -- not surprisingly; he was so important to the band. I heard that the band has been not quite in sync...which is understandable: the poor guy hasn't even been gone a week, and the rest of the guys obviously are still in shock. (Hell, Darian and Probyn go WAY back with Nick -- over 30 years.) Nick probably isn't even buried yet. Sure, they could have cancelled a few dates -- but remember, they already did, and...well, they were already on the road when Nick died (God, that's so hard to type), so what were they gonna do? Just hole up in the hotel and be sad?

But having said all of that...of all the concerts I've been to in my life, there was only one time a concert *ever* made me sad and literally made me wish I was anywhere but at that concert.

And it wasn't a Brian Wilson concert.

It was a "Beach Boys" concert I went to last weekend.

Agreed on all points...thanks for posting that

I've seen you've written this a few times. What's the reason for this?

Yeah -- because I can't keep track of where I write that stuff. :)

I think Jim was asking about why the concert made you feel that way

Does anyone know who is playing the guitar parts that Nicky would have played or if they’re leaving them out? It must be so hard for the band to continue at the moment.

I heard that Probyn was playing some of the guitar parts, meaning he had to play *three* instruments during "Let's Go Away For Awhile"!

Haha. Yeah Billy was right. I definitely wasn't complaining about what and where and when you write something. I wanted to know why the Mike and Bruce show was an endless bummer for you.

Well, I'll tell ya...I went because my mother-in-law was in town, and she always had a spot in her heart for Ringo Starr, so we took her to see the double-header with Ringo and "the Beach Boys."

Now...one big thing with me is that I just cannot acknowledge Mike and Bruce as "the Beach Boys." They're only using that name because a lawyer said they could. But having said that...the band was spot-on. Mike sounded really good. The band did a really nice Scott Totten arrangement of "Here Comes The Sun" that I honestly am considering buying if it's available anywhere. But...something was off. Again, the music was fine, the band was fine, the vocals were fine...but...it sounded so...sterile, I guess. And as I watched the projections on the screen, I was reminded how Dennis and Carl weren't there. Two Wilsons gone. And Brian wasn't going to show up. No Wilsons. Beach Boys without Wilsons?? Al on the projections...aw, man, he COULD be there, theoretically! Even David Marks! (And John Stamos' presence didn't help things.)

I guess the best comparison I can make...ever watch Mad Men? Did you see the episode where Sal was directing a Patio commercial, and the folks at Pepsi wanted a shot-for-shot re-make of Ann-Margret's "Bye Bye Birdie" performance? So Sal had it done, right down to a singer who looked and sounded like Ann-Margret? It was note-perfect, frame-perfect...but...everybody who screened it ended up not liking it, but they couldn't put their fingers on exactly what they didn't like about it, until Harry Crane spoke up: "It's not Ann-Margret."

You know, Brian and Al are basically doing a Beach Boys show now. No, they don't call themselves the Beach Boys, but it's a night of Beach Boys music. It's not like Al is up there plugging Postcard from California; Brian is not doing songs from BW88. TLOS, Imagination, GIOMH, NPP. So, having said that...
Is there anyone at their shows that thinks "it's just not right without Mike and Bruce?"

I am getting the impression that you would.

heh. Actually, last time I saw Brian, there WAS some Brian solo stuff in the show; several songs, actually. (Actually, every single Brian Wilson show I've been to has had at least one song from his solo career!)

Do Brian and Al bill themselves as "The Beach Boys"? Did they publicly state their desire to continue touring with Mike (and by extension Bruce)? I think those two questions answer why people are thinking a certain way. Mike (and Bruce) walked away, not Brian and Al.

I really think people wouldn't think walking away from The Beach Boys was a sleazy move from Mike if he had quit the band to go perform solo or with his Endless Summer Maharishi Pisces Brother Tribute Beach Band. But no, ol' Michael decided to basically quit The Beach Boys so he could go back out on the road without the other true, original Beach Boys, but still get billed as The Beach Boys.

Brian’s show in terms of setlist has been, in recent years, certainly *closer* to being his version of a “Beach Boys” show as compared to back 10-20 years ago when he was doing more solo stuff. With Al (and Blondie and Matt) on board, this effect has been magnified a bit. They still usually do some deep cuts, but apart from “Love and Mercy”, the last time the band dug into a “solo” song that *wasn’t* off Brian’s latest album (meaning not something like NPP material in 2015/2016) would have probably been back in 2013 when the first leg of the Brian/Al/David tour had them doing “Your Imagination” and “Going Home.” I may be forgetting a quick anomaly or two, but that’s generally been how it is.

*However*, a closer examination of even a relative “meat and potatoes” setlist from Brian with fewer “deep cuts” and little to no “solo” material reveals there is KEY difference between a Brian setlist and a Mike setlist.

Mike does *Beach Boys songs*; in addition to whatever covers or solo material he does, he pulls from a pool of songs simply released by the Beach Boys over the years, including songs he had no hand in writing. Mike will do “’Til I Die”, or “Surf’s Up”, or “In My Room” or “Surfer Girl”. Heck, a few years ago he even did Al’s “Lady Lynda” and Al’s “California Saga” for the first time without Al there. Mike does pretty much all of the recognizable Beach Boys hits, including songs he had no hand in writing.

Brian, on the other hand, features a setlist that showcases *his* music. With a few exceptions, Brian performs songs he either wrote or co-wrote. He *skips* most hits and other recognizable songs that he didn’t have a hand in writing (e.g. “Kokomo”, “Getcha Back”). He even skips (or often skips) well-known songs he *did* have a hand in writing or spearheading (e.g. “Be True To Your School”, “Surfin’ Safari”, “It’s OK”, “Rock and Roll Music”). Even when Al and Blondie tour with Brian, most of the songs those other guys sing are songs Brian co-wrote. A rare exception would be Al’s “California Saga” and sometimes “Cotton Fields”, and occasionally "Susie Cincinnati."  But most of Blondie’s songs? Brian co-writes. Most of Al’s songs? Brian co-writes. Al’s not whipping out “Lady Lynda” or “Lookin’ at Tomorrow” (the latter was rehearsed but never peformed). Al’s leads are usually some car songs, some PS songs, plus “Wake the World” or in the past “Honkin’ Down the Highway”, the Brian-arranged “Then I Kissed Her”, etc. There are a few other exceptions to these rules. But Brian generally showcases his writing, whereas Mike showcases Beach Boys songs (plus whatever solo stuff he’s plugging). Brian has very rarely included Carl or Dennis songs he had no hand in writing, with "Feel Flows" being the only really longer term exception to this.

This is one of the reasons I always figured it was highly unlikely Brian would ever do a full “Sunflower” tour, as I can’t picture him, even with a handed-off lead, doing something like “Tears in the Morning.”

I covered most of this in my previous post above.

I will also add, though, that according to interviews over the past five or so years, it sounds like the Brian/Al tour has been warned off from too heavily even advertising using the "Beach Boys" name. That is, even though they have never put "Beach Boys" in the band/tour title, Al has referenced in an interview that they have been harangued (my word choice) by "friendly reminders" from some legal or managerial entity that they should be careful with how much they hang promotion of their shows on their "original Beach Boy" status.

So in any procedural/logistical/legal frame of reference, Brian and Al's tour really cannot be compared to Mike's.

I'll also add that while I quite enjoyed the post-C50 Brian/Al shows I saw in 2013, 2015, and 2016, I did feel, especially in 2013 with David also there, that the band, while great, was not the same as the full reunion lineup with Mike and Bruce.

In my now numerous years of pointing out how much of a bummer the reunion ending was, I've always pointed out to those who think that sentiment is too negative towards Mike, that in fact part of my disappointment is due to Mike not being there. Mike (and yeah, even Bruce) add to the whole and made C50 a definite "whole is greater than the sum of the parts" sort of situation.

Sure, as the years have now gone by and Mike has often been increasingly negative about C50 and about Brian (and to some degree Al as well), I've eventually sort of by default come to the realization that it's probably better that someone so negative towards Brian and Al *isn't* there with them then.

My understanding is that Brian, Estates of Carl and Dennis, Mike and Al via the corporation says he can use the name in exchange for the fee he pays to the BB Corp to license the name. The lawyers got more heavily involved when Al didn’t want to pay to license the name to use within his band’s name (back when he had Carnie and Wendy in his group).

Presumably if Brian and Al were truly unhappy with Mike using the name, all it’d take would be either Carl’s estate or Dennis’ estate to be on board to vote against licensing the name to Mike. But of course, they all get paid for this license, including Brian and Al.

Someone please jump in and correct any misunderstanding I have here.

There are hundreds if not thousands of posts over the years here that get into all of this. Yes, as we all know, Mike secured a license from the band’s corporation to use the band’s name solely for touring.

As to most of the rest of what you’ve said, it’s largely more complicated than that. BRI voting to give Mike an exclusive license doesn’t mean *all* the shareholders agreed to it. Only that the majority did. Others may have voted against it, others may have abstained.

As to whether Brian or Al has at any time in subsequent years no longer wanted Mike to have the license, that’s unclear. What is relatively clear is that Brian and Al alone could not take Mike’s license away. They would need the support of Carl’s estate (or possibly for them to abstain). (Dennis’s estate is not a member of BRI.)

Further, the reality of things is that even if they *did* vote to take away the license, the whole mess would likely be tied up in litigation for years.

But I think the general idea in some of these types of posts seems to be that because Brian and Al haven’t spearheaded a new vote to strip Mike of the license, and just because they collect the licensing fee that they are legally entitled to, that then implies that they are 100% fine with the licensing set up. That isn’t necessarily the case. All we know for sure is that they aren’t apparently unhappy *enough* with the situation to risk possibly millions of dollars in legal fees and years in court to change things.

My personal sense is that for many years now the touring license has been more about a sort of defaulting to maintaining the status quo, a sort of “possession is 9/10 of the law” sort of mentality. There have been no apparent actual lawsuits post-2012 between members or the corporation; they’re probably happy enough to maintain that level of equilibrium even if everything isn’t *precisely* the way they’d personally like it.

No.

Here Today with Al on lead vocal https://youtu.be/QW2LE6BXZPs

Does anyone know why he isn't ending the show with Love and Mercy anymore?

Too many fans were saying "it's just not right without Mike and Bruce" ?

 :lol

Folks, for those curious about the shareholders of BRI and the nature of the "Beach Boys" license agreement, there's a ton of relevant info in this 2003 court decision:

BROTHER RECORDS INC v. JARDINE
https://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-9th-circuit/1213400.html

I think things are best the way they are now. The Beach Boys of history will always be Brian, Mike, Dennis, Carl and Al; and to varying degrees, David, Bruce, Blondie, Ricky..did I leave anyone out? Glen Campbell? Daryl Dragon? Billy Hinsche? The Beach Boys today are Mike's band. I will go see them next month and i'm sure i'll have a great time, but it can't compare to seeing some variation of the classic lineup in (or near) their prime.
Over the years, I've seen a lot of complaining about the shows the group did in the 80s and 90s with all the surfing and car songs, the cheerleaders, etc; but I am thankful I got to see the group a couple times when Dennis was alive; and many, many times with Carl singing and playing.
The only thing that could make a 2019 show by either Mike's BB's or Brian and Al's group as magical as those shows I saw 30 years ago is if Carl and Dennis could be brought back from the dead.

From the show on my birthday

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pcS76uMbGlA
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vOv37hWXYxE

A belated Happy Birthday, Billy!!  :billy2

Thank you much! I’m not a young 41 sadly but glad to still be here . That hasn’t been a given especially lately so it certainly is s blessing

Happy belated birthday and thanks for being such a cool moderator ☺

Thank you kindly!

Plus 1 🍰

Nice post. Sounds like you are a real fan.

edit - nevermind

Yes, i'm thankful I got to see the band many times in the 80s/90s. I never saw them do a bad show. In fact, back in 1987, I saw both the Beach Boys and the Monkees at the same fair, a week apart, and the Monkees show was the one that got all the pre-show hype, all the write ups in the paper. In terms of crowd response, though, the Beach Boys had the more enthusiastic audience. I ...think to the press, it was "oh, ho-hum, another Beach Boys concert, they've been together since God created water"; while the Monkees were in the middle of a reunion many people thought would never happen. And don't get me wrong, I love the Monkees, but it's hard to top the great catalog of songs the Beach Boys have to sing from night after night. Those songs and those voices always got us on our feet! It was a party!
Will be interesting to see how the current band does, even though some of us are much older now, with creaky knees, graying or balding heads, lol.

Murphy's, California September 14th, is cancelled...scheduling conflict.

The venue's Facebook page does indeed mention this is canceled. I've removed it from the top post schedule. Curious whose "change in scheduling" it is.

Paul Mertens posted a bit of Brian's "Friends" tour rehearsals. Interestingly, it shows both Rob Bonfiglio (currently a fill-in in Mike's band) and Randell Kirsch.

https://www.facebook.com/paul.vonmertens/posts/2102206849891451

Kirsch is playing guitar in the clip, so I'm wondering if Randell Kirsch is a temporary (or permanent?) new guitarist in Brian's band. Even if he's just sitting on this upcoming tour, it would make Kirsch one of the only people (perhaps *the* only?) who have played separately, post-1998, with Mike's band, Al's band, and Brian's band. I'm trying to think of someone else who has done that. Maybe Gary Griffin? I don't think Griffin was ever a regular in Al or Mike's band post-1998, but he may have done gigs with both. Some of the other ex-Mike guys like Bardowell and Farmer have played with both Mike and Al, but not Brian. Did Billy Hinsche ever play full gigs with Mike's band (not counting sitting in for a song or two)?

I'm also wondering if maybe Bonfiglio and Kirsch are going to rotate in and out as replacements in Brian's band. I know in the past we've seen cases where, say, three or four keyboard guys rehearse ahead of time with the knowledge that they'll be rotating in and out (e.g. Darian, Gary, and Billy all rehearsing even though they're not all in the show at the same time).

Live "Friends", nice! Love it!

I often read that it is not the real beach boys who are touring today. Hum... who will try to make me believe that Brian's shows are really Brian's shows. He can't move, can't sing, the backing band does all the job. Brian is not here for the rehearsals, but in the shows, it's the same. So sad to watch his wife using him like a puppet. And some people love those shows...awfull! His personnal renditions are an offense to his great songs. He should really stay at home.
Some people are happy to watch those rehearsals. The fendertons do the same, but they don't try to make us believe that Brian is a part of this.
And believe me... I really love Brian Wilson, my heroe.

Do you honestly believe that's the case?

Here's my question...why would she do so? I ask that of anybody who makes that accusation...again, what would be in it for her?

Sorry, but if you had the amount of children...   Looking after your kids is at the top of every parents agenda...  Probably yours ?

So the Wilsons need the income from these little shows?  I kinda doubt that.  No, I haven't seen BW's tax returns or financial statements, but surely he's a multimillionaire many times over, right?  The royalties from his '60s oeuvre and BRI tours would surely support them.

Anyway, that Friends rehearsal clip might be enough to convince me to go to one of the shows.  Change my mind.

New interview with Al on the upcoming tour:

https://www.dailynews.com/2019/08/28/al-jardine-reveals-how-he-and-brian-wilson-will-tap-into-the-beach-boys-catalog-on-new-tour/

AL JARDINE REVEALS HOW HE AND BRIAN WILSON WILL TAP INTO THE BEACH BOYS’ CATALOG ON NEW TOUR

<< The band is rehearsing the title songs from both albums, as well as “Til I Die,” “Meant for You,” “Wake the World,” and “Busy Doin’ Nothin’,” he [Jardine] said. But when it comes to the set list, “It’s up to Brian, really.” >>

I'm just going to cut and paste a response I gave to someone who shares this same ridiculous attitude. I would love for anyone who thinks this way to counter my points, but thus far this post has been ignored multiple times by the people who share this view.

Here we go again. Don't feed 'em if the facts aren't enough.

After posting this, how can this mustomax say he loves Brian Wilson and that he's his heroE ??? ??? Looks fairly contradictory to me.  ::)

Watching a guy who have nothing to do on a stage is a love proof. Sure... "this mustomax" really doesn't care what a guy like you can think.  If you're happy to see Brian on a wheel chair behind a piano not able to play or to sing that's good for you. If you like the show posted on youtube 2 monthes ago watch it again and again. I stopped aftet 15 minutes. It made me cry..

If it's a pleasure for you to watch this : https://youtu.be/wKEibZqSCFU
Watch it... for me, it's a nightmare! And you kow, I think Brian IS the heroe of EVERY Beach Boys fan. The difference between you and me, it's I don't need to put Mike down every 5 minutes to be sure that Brian is the best of the best of all time.

Mustomax, try this show from 2004, instead.

https://youtu.be/5EZ88zY6wPM

Or better yet, this.

https://youtu.be/FKOLPUUvq_I

But I'm not speaking of 2004! I saw a lot if Brian' shows. The last one was in 2017 and it was hard to see. Blondie and Al saved the show. (Sorry I think Matt is not goid at all anymore...).  But Brian couldn't follow the melody with th words. Like an elocution problem... so sad!

It was 18 years ago! I'm sure you kow the difference with his present shows.

I see both perspectives on this... Brian is wonderful and we are lucky he is still performing with his fantastic band... AND looking at clips like the above referenced one from May 2019 is pretty depressing because he is appearing really worn and isn't performing at a comparatively high level.  (and nobody really expects him to at his current stage)

To be honest, I don't know why they haven't done this already... but the solution to all of this is to have Al double all or nearly all of Brian's lead parts.  It is helpful from a quality perspective, and it also maintains a certain level of authenticity that is really important to the BW live band.  It would be kinda Everlyish, which is cool and innovative in ways that us fans would appreciate at this point in their careers.

Hey Musto, we all get older but do we want others whispering behind our collective backs that he/she should do this or that or retire to an easy chair because he may need a wheelchair?? Hell no!! And, yes, plenty of us are going to end up in one but that doesn't mean we stop doing what we need to or love to do. Quit being an armchair quarterback for Brian. He doesn't need your pity. And Mike? He gets what he gives.

I think allowing for criticism is certainly important, and there's no question that recent Brian shows/tours have him struggling.

But the rather dismissive/trollish tone (whether intended or not) of the poster in question (not just deriding Brian's shows, but invoking the "Brian's wife" stuff, plus defending Mike's band even though Mike's band wasn't brought up, and then also a dig on Matt Jardine) isn't really the most constructive way to do so.

Back on track/topic, I'd say that while having Al (and/or others) double (or replace) every Brian lead would raise the ire of concertgoers and reviewers/critics to some degree (e.g. "Brian barely sings on stage anymore!"), it might well be preferable to having him struggle so much on some of his leads.

I did just recently check out the most recent show, the 8/13 show, on YouTube. And while I still think Brian is struggling excessively, I will say on some of the stuff I heard he *did* sound noticeably better (not *hugely*, but enough to take notice) on some of the hits. So I think, just purely vocally, there's still room to have Brian take some leads on that sort of stuff.

I'd be happy to see Brian semi-retire and relax at home, maybe work on some studio material, maybe help to curate some vault material, and then maybe step out for a show here or there, and then see Al/Matt/Darian/Blondie continue on with the band. But that just isn't possible; they won't get bookings of this magnitude without Brian, and therefore could not afford all those musicians. I think Al/Matt/Blondie could maybe try really hard to book a scaled-back tour with fewer musicians (perhaps just Darian, Probyn, and a few others), maybe add David Marks in the mix to make it more enticing. Anything is possible. I'm not trying to squeeze Brian out of the picture of course.

I think doing over a month of shows coming up here in a few days will help to get a better feel for where Brian's at.

Kind of like what Jeff used to do?

I am curious if they're going to have Brian do "Busy Doin' Nothin'" on this tour. It makes sense in that Wake the World/Busy Doin' Nothin' was a combo in the setlist only a few years ago. But I also recall a band member supposedly indicating that Brian didn't like doing the super-verbose songs on stage anymore (e.g. "Busy..." and "Surf's Up"). Considering how Brian is struggling with phrasing on PS material, I'm curious how much he's going to be into going back to "Busy Doin' Nothin'" again. I think Matt ends up taking on most of "Surf's Up", so that would seem a bit easier to integrate again.

While Jeff (and others in the band) certainly double Brian's leads in certain cases, it's not like a show in 2000 had Jeff doubling all of Brian's leads. Having seen 15 or however many shows over all those years, there were specific songs Jeff doubled Brian on (e.g. "The Little Girl I Once Knew"), other random cases where Jeff or someone would just pick up the lead on fragments of songs when Brian wasn't singing for whatever reason, and then it was in later years that they started actually handing full leads off to Darian or Jeff. But listen to "Live at the Roxy" or other shows from that era. For better or worse, most of the Brian leads were him hanging out there all by himself. I love "This Whole World" and felt like Brian was never able to get that one down well enough (by 2015 they finally just handed that lead over to Darian).

There’s one thing to say Brian shouldn’t be touring. It’s another thing to say his wife is using him as a puppet. THAT is what I have a major issue with. Unless you have actual, literal proof that would hold up in court, that is an extremely slippery slope to be standing on. Just saying.

I don't recall seeing that offhand so I'll ask - when Jeff would double Brian, would it be a falsetto double, or would it be more of a 2 part harmony-type thing?  

Depends on the song. I noticed towards the end Brian would try to hit the high parts but Jeff would drown him out...and Brian would look visibly irritated.  Hell a lot of times Brian would be in perfect tune but Jeff would throw him off.

Never felt they blended well together

EXACTLY.

If you don't like how Brian sounds on stage, it's very simple: don't go to his shows. By "fans" claiming that Brian is being puppeted you are disrespecting every band member, roadie, audio person, light person, managers, etc who work with Brian and his band every day of touring. You are disrespecting Brian's family, close friends, and acquaintances who communicate with Brian daily and hear how he personally is feeling about things. You are basically saying that if things were Landy-like (puppeting) and Brian's mental and physical health are being jeopardized by his touring that no one around him has the heart to stop this atrocity. You are stating that the people who work around him daily don't have the heart or balls to stop Brian from being used. Might I say, you are disrespecting someone as kind hearted and wonderful as Nicky Wonder himself...seriously, think about what you're accusation implies....because at the point you're accusing Melinda of being a sociopath (by controlling a mentally ill human being for monetary gain) you're accusing everyone around him who can see the situation better than ANY OF US as accomplices.

Don't equate your perception of Brian's mental health on how you rate his voice during parts of his concerts. The man is nearly 80 years old ffs. Apply the smallest dose of logic to this...it's not like Melinda and Brian (or Darian and the band) are making millions of dollars from this touring gig. As my post on the last page (which always gets ignored) says, Brian's net worth is almost $80 million - I don't think for a second that Melinda needs Brian picking up the loose change that these concerts make.

Might I say that for the sake (and legacy) of someone like Nicky Wonder that this talk of Brian being a puppet for the band or Melinda gets these posters automatically booted from this board. I'm tired of reading this sh*t that implies everyone around Brian is a heartless monster. Yes, this post is aimed at Lonely Summer and Mustomax. And don't try to convince me that posters from this forum know any better than everyone in and around Brian's band.

I currently see why some don't dig Brian's current shows, and more power to you guys. But this nonsense about Melinda being a puppeteer really needs to end. I get that misinformation was spread throughout the back channels of the forums (and probably still is) about Melinda. But do some damn research people, do some thinking for yourself. Mull over every perspective and then see if your theories still match up to anything resembling reality. And, Mustomax and Lonely Summer, when your perspective is challenged, don't prove yourself a troll and skitter away, try to bring facts and ideas to the table that actually hold up. If you can't then stop with the nonsense.

Don't tarnish the legacy of good people with your crackpot theories.

I'll no doubt cause a commotion by saying this, but Brian can't do it anymore, when it comes to performing live. Saying his wife is using him as a puppet is a bit uncalled for, but everybody just turning their head and blindly telling Brian he's doing great is doing a disservice to him and his legacy. A lot of people are saying that he wants to tour and be active. If that's true, then it's great that Brian still wants to be active. But he needs to be told(gently) that he's not able to perform up to his regular high standards anymore.

The man's "high standard" has constantly changed - like on a yearly basis since he was performing in the 60s - his voice went from angelic, to horrible, to better, to shouty, to good, to terrible, back to near angelic, back to shouty. Here's what I think: let the market decide for itself. It's, thankfully, not left up to the opinion of those on message boards (otherwise Brian would've hung it up years ago and we wouldn't have the good memories from recent years) - it is up to the people who pay money from their pockets night after night who go see the guy.

Put it this way Jay: let's say your father is an artist, he is still selling art but it isn't up to his peak standards of when he created art when he was younger. He is nearly 80 years old, but he is still selling pieces and it's giving him a reason to get out of bed every morning. He isn't harming anyone, and he is making a lot of people happy, even if his art isn't up to high standards anymore. Would anyone have the right to tell that man that he shouldn't make art anymore just because it wasn't up to the standards he made when he was younger?

That’s fair. I personally wish he’d just be working in the studio.  But..if he wants  to be touring then by God let him. I don’t think others are telling him that he’s doing better than ever or anything like that, just being supportive. Don’t think for a moment he’s not aware that he’s struggling. I wouldn’t be surprised if that’s wearing on him emotionally. Has to be. I know of a certain singer who also deals with mental illness known for her (formerly) beautiful high notes that she can’t hit anymore due to getting older and previous indiscretions when she was younger, and her loss of ability has been one of (not the primary but a big part) contributing factors to her worsening mental state.  People talk, which increases anxiety, which leads to worse performances, and repeats the cycle. So yes, someone as sensitive AND perfectionist as Brian Knows full well he’s not at the level of a few years ago.  But, he also knows it’s far better than the alternative, and keeps pushing himself.

I myself since my second stroke at not what i used to be. I can no longer play bass or keyboards, and am incapable of finishing a song by myself. My short term memory is sh*t, and is getting worse.  I have a slight speech impediment. My seizures have gotten to the point where I won’t be able to drive much longer. My health is declining exponentially and there will come a time where I will be unable to work. But I fight like hell every day because if I don’t well...I’m not going to finish that sentence.

So if Brian feels like pushing himself to the limit is what’s best for him, then I fully support that. There will come a time when he won’t be here for us to discuss in the present-tense (happens to us all) . We should be grateful that he’s with us and doing the best he can (never mind the fact he’s dealing with Nick’s passing which you know has to be hard).

Great posts, Rab and Billy. Well said.

You make some good points. I guess Brian pushing himself is good for him mentally and emotionally. But I wonder if all the touring is making his back worse. Hopefully upcoming shows with a different set list might engage him. I do think he might be at his best working in the studio though.

I agree . Besides... I want to hear new Brian music

Hang in there, Billy. Sending much love.

Thank you kindly

I’m no expert but am a firm believer in the ‘use it or lose it’ motto. Being active on the road is possibly better back therapy than the temptation to just sit around home.
On the other stuff? When Ray Lawlor says he Brian is being taken advantage of, then I’ll believe it.

You can't say that around here, this is the group that believes Brian is in full control of his life, loves touring, and sounds as good as he ever has.

No this is the group that has replied to you multiple times challenging your opinion but you have nothing to retort with.

*edit, just want to add that I am still waiting for a reply from you Lonely Summer, from what is probably the 5th or 6th time I have responded to your accusations about Melinda, Brian, the band, etc.

Again I'll suggest to the leadership here that if slanderous accusations continue to be thrown at Melinda (with zero evidence and no rational dialogue/discussion after the accusations have been made) that these people are banned for the good of the forum. It's getting tiresome to read the slander.

Good point. I can’t imagine staying home watching tv all day would be very helpful and I think Brian realizes this.

You know what too? The few clips online from the last show he did was a million times better than the first show. That’s to be expected considering it was a) just first show back  and b)Nick.  

Who here has said he sounds as good as he ever has? Nobody’s saying that. I’m saying to cut the man a break, for f***’s sake. If you’re going to diss the members of a board of which you’re a part of like you aren’t, at least get your facts straight.

Ok. Brian always hated to play concerts, but now, after decades, he became a real showman. People are happy to watch him holding a bass without playing it for the encore. Brian's place is in the studio, like Mike's place is on the stage. I don't expect Mike doing tomorrow an album like pet sounds, like I'll never expect Brian doing a real showman performance live.  Watching Brian in front of us on stage, is a great emotional moment, but artisticaly, it's awful! his band is very good. That's all. He should stay in the studio.
Well I won't post anymore here. To much fanatism and hate. It seems it's more like a sect where you have to say that even Brian's defections smell good.  It's only music, and we all love the same band. Brian Wilson is a Genius, what he did when he was young is unique. But NOW, his performances are Horrible. Bye.

Ahh so challenging the idea that Melinda Wilson is a psychotic who is using Brian for financial gain is too much fanaticism and hate? I mean, how do you think Melinda Wilson feels when she reads this forum and sees that some people view her as a manipulative Landy-II who is using Brian? I mean, logically how much money do you think Brian and Melinda are pulling in from these Pet Sounds shows in order for it to be worth it to Melinda to puppet Brian on strings in front of thousands of people every week?

Totally fine with anyone having an opinion about the music and performances at Brian's shows, but I don't see how you can think there is nothing wrong with basically slenderizing someone who has done nothing but help Brian for the last 30 years.

My wife also makes me go to work for my own betterment and to make some money. I guess I am being manipulated and controlled too. Help me somebody. Please!  ;D

Exactly!  That’s completely different from saying that Brian really shouldn’t be on the road anymore. I can respect that. As I said earlier I’d rather see him working in the studio at this stage of the game. But saying that Melinda is forcing him to do it is not only libel, it’s erroneous. That’s what I have an extreme issue with. But don’t twist around our words. That’s total bullshit

Oh no...you mean you make money but still come home tired?! Dear God that’s some monkey’s paw sh*t right there! Someone go fetch Barbara Walters

Yeah!......And I don’t have co-workers apparently. They’re now known as ‘enablers’.

Is this Sheriff John Stone?

Yes, Brian has definitely lost many steps in recent years. I don’t think anyone would deny that.

But to say that he has never in his 20 years of touring ever given good to great performances? That’s crazy talk only said by people who have never seen him when he and the BW Band were at their best. That was the reason why I posted those YouTube videos in the first place.

I'll gladly 2nd and 3rd that Rab. Let's be done with this idiotic line of weak thinking for good!

I'd like to know what David Leaf thinks of Brian's live performances in the last 3 or 4 years - this was the guy who chastised the Beach Boys family for parading Brian around onstage in the late 70's like he was a circus animal. In Leaf's view, it didn't matter to the BB's and the family that Brian just sat frozen onstage behind his grand piano most of the time; people wanted to see Brian, so, here he is...even if most of the time he looks like he would rather be ANYWHERE but on that stage in front of all those people. But somehow, in 2019, that is not an issue, because Brian repeatedly tells the press that he loves touring.
If I believed every word that comes out of Brian's mouth, then i'd also have to believe him everytime he told a reporter that Gene Landy saved his life, that he had not been brainwashed by Landy, that he was a willing participant in the Landy program.
Well, maybe the guy has a really good poker face, maybe he does love being on stage and everything else that goes with touring. If that's the case, then I wish him well. Maybe he just feels responsible for keeping his band employed.

Rab's passion posts in this thread jump to conclusions that are nearly as outlandish as calling Brian a puppet, yet because they are so over the top pro-Brian, he gets a bunch of high fives. 

That is why nobody is engaging with your posts.  *shrug*

Thanks for the reply and being honest about my posts. I ask the following honestly: if I am being outlandish (and perhaps I am because I am responding to outlandish statements), what about my posts jumps to outlandish conclusions?

I honestly ask this, because I fully admit that my vision may be clouded by years of reading overly negative things about Brian and also being duped myself (many years back) into thinking that Brian was supposedly a vegetable who had no ability to think for himself. And, if I am jumping to outlandish conclusions, again it is perhaps in response to responding to a very outlandish accusation.

As for being over-the-top pro Brian, perhaps I am over-the-top. Perhaps I respond to the negativity by swinging the pendulum too far back in the other direction. Just like Lonely Summer's posts probably make perfect sense to him, my posts make perfect sense to me. I am willing to be proven wrong about my positive outlook on Brian and am willing to be proven wrong about my outlook on his current touring situation. I wish, even if I am being over-the-top or outlandish, that some discourse would occur between my perspective and Lonely Summer's...at the very least so a conclusion can be drawn one way or the other so we don't have to read about Melinda being a puppeteer or read my responses to those posts.

To try and not be outlandish about my point of view, wouldn't it make sense that if Brian were struggling immensely and not enjoying himself, that the people close to him (especially his family and those in the band who care about him) would publicly protest at how Brian is being paraded around?

I don't really wish to pick apart individual posts, but just one thing that jumped out to me - invoking the idea that if you believe Brian is being manipulated, it is a disrespecting of the deceased Nicky Wonder.  That is outlandish.  You're not totally wrong with all that you say nor is your passion a negative thing.  But nobody's going to interact with that type of over the top, loaded post. 
To reply to your most recent post I guess and give this discourse, isn't it really, really obvious to absolutely everybody in 2019 that at times Brian struggles immensely with what he does and at times he is not enjoying himself?  Also at the same time, that he is choosing to do what he is doing, for a variety of reasons that he finds important and valuable?  This is where the grey area is created, in which some people choose to (incorrectly, imo) question his situation. 

I admit I don't like using Nicky Wonder as a means of argument, however...Lonely Summer posted earlier this month: "Brian..well, I still doubt that he is in control of his own destiny. There's too many band members and family members counting on that paycheck." (http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,26082.msg652718.html#msg652718) - making the assumption that the band sees Brian's struggles close up and are still willing to go along with Brian being controlled/manipulated (or they are doing the manipulation themselves) so they can keep the money flowing in.

I see that statement as a knock at every member of that band including Nicky Wonder. And I'm really not trying to be stubborn about this, but to claim that the band cares more about money than they do the health and well-being of Brian is disrespecting every member of that band, in my opinion. And I don't think that is a loaded opinion.


Absolutely. My grandmother struggled a lot in her latter years. She would struggle to get up and be active (for the sake of her health) and she would struggle with all the things that make getting older hard. However she struggled through it because she knew it was the best thing for her to do. Even while wincing with each step she knew that getting up and moving around was better for her than sitting in an armchair all day. She certainly looked like she wasn't enjoying herself at times, but in order to get the most out of life she continued on. I'm not trying to say that her situation is identical to Brian's, but as Billy, you, and others have said and alluded to above, there are probably logical reasons he is doing what he is doing right now...for the sake of his physical and mental health.

I honestly don't know if touring is the best thing for Brian, as a fan who lives 5,000+ miles away from him I don't really have a valid opinion about the matter. But I do trust that the UCLA doctors, family, and friends close to Brian know what is best for him, and would stop Brian from touring if it were jeopardizing his health and well-being in any way.

Thanks for your replies, and I appreciate the honesty. I fully admit I've taken some rather irrational viewpoints in the past, and am sometimes guilty of having tunnel vision when it comes to certain subjects. Sometimes you can get so locked into a point of view it's hard to see other perspectives - which is why discourse is a great thing.

No, it’s not outlandish for rab to say that. Wondermints never would have taken that gig if Brian was being mistreated and manipulated against his will. Those guys have too much integrity to go along with a con job.

I recall reading a post on this very board describing a backstage scene in the early- or mid-2000s where David Leaf was observed yelling at Brian for his unwillingness to take the stage at a particular show. Was that hypocricy, or a case of Leaf finally realizing that going onstage was in Brian's best interest, despite how he felt at that particular moment?

As far as Landy saving Brian's life - he certainly did, just as Murry was responsible in many ways for the band's early success. Doesn't mean either of them was a good person and didn't also do despicable things to Brian, but it's the truth.

One of the problems occurring here, in my opinion, is that the few folks being very blunt and adamant that Brian’s shows are awful are simply pointing it out and not trying to engage in any conversation/analysis about it.

It’s like, what do you want anyone else to say when you burst in, say “Brian’s out of it! Game over man! Anybody who thinks he isn’t toast is delusional!” and then do a mic drop and walk away? Even if I agree with you, if there’s not any constructive nature to what you’re saying, and you’re just looking to barf out your statement and aren’t interesting in any back and forth, you just come across like a troll. *Especially* if you start trying to contend his shows have been awful since the beginning, as if a 2000 show is the same as a 2019 show.

Read my posts on the subject; I’m very much bummed about and quite realistic about the shortcomings of Brian’s shows of the last couple of years or so. I don’t think it’s wrong to ask some hard questions about it, and if one comes to the conclusion that they think Brian should probably stay off the road, that’s absolutely an understandable opinion. I’d even say that, while blunt, uninformed “Brian’s wife is making him do it!” histrionics are inappropriate, I don’t think it’s entirely out of line to wonder/show concern/be curious about whether there is a machine around Brian that is, if not “forcing” him to do anything, perhaps using some level of coercion or something along those lines. I’m saying only that *wondering* about that is understandable. It’s happened to Brian throughout his life. It’s not even exclusive to Brian. Any singer/musician of advanced age that keeps touring and displays a marked decline in performance quality usually tends to understandably elicit concerns from fans as to why and how they’re still out there. There are far worse extremes that seem much more heinous in the entertainment world (e.g. look at the last public events Stan Lee attended). But simply having concern about Brian is understandable.

But a few folks in this thread are just bursting into the room, blurting out their opinion (which involves sometimes serious accusations about Brian and/or those around him, and also tends to insult huge swaths of fans on this board), and then walking away.

There’s a constructive way to finally point out, with regret and sadness, that you don’t think Brian’s up to touring anymore. The inflammatory posts in this thread are not that sort of post.

There seems to be a lot of basic, fundamental misunderstandings in play here regarding not only the difference between opinion and fact and how these are directed at individuals, but also a wide disconnect regarding the overall situations regarding Brian Wilson as a person over the past several decades. Without going full in-depth on it right now, just consider a few points.

- Anyone can share their opinion on the quality or lack thereof of a Brian Wilson concert. In turn, anyone is free to rebut or offer a counter opinion in return. That's basic dialogue and debate. BUT when charges of Brian being used like a puppet, being kept drugged, being "forced" to tour, or in general being controlled by his wife and "handlers" are spoken publicly, and the facts do not back that up, it does border on slander. If something is not true, and proven not true, yet continues to be repeated, *that* is the issue which gets a lot of us upset.

We can talk about what and who is to blame for this. Let's just say a certain band member expressing this crap in public interviews over the last 6 years or so combined with some online folks who thought they were in a position of authority and "insider" status whispering this garbage for years to fans on the sly, and having it repeated by "fans" on various online outlets who never spent a minute with Brian Wilson which they didn't pay for (if they even did that) parroting and repeating that same nonsense for years has only fueled this nonsense.

So if people still believe that Brian is being controlled, doped up, forced to tour, lacking money and needing to tour, and in general as someone expressed here "a puppet" controlled by a domineering wife and handlers, just consider that your sources of info have a history of lying, distorting, and pushing personal grudges against the Wilsons and related interests and are simply not being honest.

The optimist in me says perhaps people repeating this garbage at this point in 2019 have simply been duped or misled into believing it because they've heard it repeated by people they think are credible.

Consider that these sources are not credible, consider that they have a history of lies and distortions fueled by personal grudges, and consider seeing the other side sourced from individuals who have actually spent more personal, non-scheduled time with Brian and Melinda Wilson than any of the so-called "insiders" have spent or will ever spend unless they pay for a VIP concert experience and get a minute to grab an autograph.


Word of advice: Consider the sources and the history behind those sources before believing this stuff about Brian being a "puppet" who is controlled. And feel free to ask questions as well before believing these sources who make such claims in spite of the facts.

Thanks for your thoughtful posts, Rab! You've brought up good points and questions.

Non-English speakers' tone and statements can be harsher than expected, as we have definitely found out on this board. The OP certainly has a lot of love for Brian, and maybe it is helpful to keep that in mind when they make a statement like "using him like a puppet". I agree, in English that's very bad. But, you can also just decide to give them the benefit of the doubt and not consider it board-bannable slander. :)

On the other hand, it is hilarious when the guy who has spent tens of thousands of hours graffiti-ing Mike Love hatred all around the internet is so quick to support an internet ban due to slander.

It would help all of us to remember that only a small minority of the detractors actually think that there is a group conspiracy to mine resources out of Brian. It could be that Brian is, after all these years, actually doing what he wants, but he also knows that lots of people are relying on him (and keeping him going) and as such he is choosing to "take one for the team" sometimes. Given his history and the grand scale of his touring machine that can appear nefarious from certain outside perspectives. Just food for thought.

The most important, and complicated as hell, part of this situation is Brian's mental and psychological well being. Look, I've got a 90 degree curvature in my back from scoliosis, and it's to the point that I'm having(relatively minor) respiratory issues. I am always in some kind of physical pain. I literally don't remember my early life of being 100% totally pain free(around 0-9-ish years old). There are some days where I just want to say "f*** it", and just cash it in. Now, keep in mind that all my pain is physical. I have no major mental or emotional issues. Now, if somebody who is  of relatively sound mind, such as myself* has moments of extremely dark and hopeless thoughts, consider what it may be like for Brian, who fights audio and visual hallucinations on a daily basis. Now, let's compound that with all the severe physical pain of several operations(that have evidently failed), and the anguish of therapy. If I myself ever seen to be "outlandish" or over the top with my opinions, it is only because I truly love Brian Wilson with all my heart and soul, despite having never met the man. All I'm trying to say is; mental and emotional issues are often the "silent illness". I don't think Melinda or anybody is forcing Brian to do anything. But I do strongly suspect that certain people(hell, maybe Brian himself) may not be fully understand and appreciating the delicate nature of Brian's situation. Mental health isn't something you can "fix" in a few weeks or months.

*That's kind of a trick statement. I am indeed nuttier than a fruitcake and will the first to admit it.  ;D

I understand and respect your opinions, but just to remind readers of the post which started all this, here it is:



No language differences would explain away the tone of those comments.  They're right there for all to read. And the irony yet again is after a loaded post like that, the poster says he's going to leave because of the "hate". So the comments above came from a place of love and respect? Ironic indeed.

Further irony comes when you see the poster's own YouTube channel where he posted multiple videos from one of Brian's shows he saw in July 2017 and still has them available to watch. If they're so "awful", why have them on your own channel?  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSyOFGmpFFY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSyOFGmpFFY)  The awful part of that rendition of L&M is the guy either in the audience or holding the phone/camera singing off-key with the song.

Yeah man, I know lol, I am trying real hard to give him the L&M treatment with that rant.  :lol

Where did the idea come from that David never spoke with Brian while writing the book? I was around at the time, and - as long as it's been - I'm quite certain he said he had spoken with Brian.

Ray Lawlor has already spoken about the "David yelling at Brian" incident on these pages I'm sure. I don't have the time for a search but I'm sure it's available here. While I don't remember all the details, Ray essentially said that Brian asked and thanked people for demanding the best from him.

The whole, annoyingly repeated accusation that Melinda is forcing Brian to tour is just stupid. I know she was hoping to retire several years ago. It's Brian who wants to stay on the road. At least a lot of the good people who I know who doubted my word about this are happily, friends of the band, and they confirmed this.

As far as David's opinion of the shows today, you'd have to ask him.

I think there are just lots of grey areas happening here, and lots of stuff that it's absolutely impossible to qualify from the outside.

Ultimately it is damn near impossible for an outsider to objectively look at Brian's actions/decisions in the same manner as that outsider would look at the actions/decisions made by a person other than Brian Wilson, due to his unique history and personality. He has done/said so many contradictory things publicly over the years, that people sometimes feel they can apply a "Choose Your Own Adventure" scenario to further an agenda that they either feels makes the most logical sense, or confirms some bias that they have. As mentioned earlier in this thread, I absolutely think it does not make logical sense to think that all of the bandmates in The Brian Wilson Band would idly sit by for literally decades watching Brian being forced to do stuff he just plain doesn't want to do.  Let's remember the Beautiful Dreamer doc: they've also witnessed Brian looking depressed on a couch during the SMiLE tour prep sessions, only to watch a triumphant Brian reap the emotional rewards of pushing through those tough times a short time later. I'm sure that type of stuff happens with Brian a lot. Negative and outwardly (by Brian himself) bad vibes, but pushing through for a positive reward at the end.

That said... is Melinda controlling, and perhaps too much so sometimes? Well possibly to a degree, and again this is something we can only speculate on. Ultimately, I'm sure she has her husband's best wishes in mind. She's only human herself, and imperfect I'm sure. I do think she's doing the best she can, given the very unique situation that Brian is in. Much like Marilyn, Melinda finds herself in a very, very unique and challenging situation as a spouse. Yet Melinda's actions must sometimes - and even understandably so - give off the vibe of being too controlling sometimes. Carnie at one point as I recall did publicly call her Me-landy, but that was a long time ago.  I mention that only because I think it must be easy - even for a family member - to at first glance misinterpret some of what Melinda probably has to do for her husband's sake.  With them, surely things were rough behind the scenes at one point, and maybe they didn't get along for many reasons.  IMO, I don't think of Melinda as a saint or incapable of making bad decisions. Among other things, I think the fact that Brian was nudged away from Paley and to Autotune Joe is ridiculous, to put it lightly.  

However - and this is a big however - the fact that Carnie did *not* continue with making those types of remarks tells me that she's had a change of heart, even if she and her stepmom are likely not BFFs. To suggest otherwise is pretty unthinkable. There's no big conspiracy of people close to Brian/family being paid off to shut up and be muzzled about legit concern for Brian being forced to do touring against his will. Do people think this? It almost seems to be implied by some people's posts.  

I don't buy it. The situation is nuanced, complicated and complex I'm sure, well beyond what any of us can comprehend. But unless in 2019 Brian's band and loved ones are publicly showing concern that Brian is being forced/coerced, I think it's fair to think that suggesting Brian is being forced/coerced is not in fact an accurate statement. Now would every single family member and friend of Brian agree 100% with every life/career choice that Brian has made during his solo era? I'm sure not. Everyone's going to have their opinion about a whole lot of stuff. I'm sure some people are more right about some choices and others more right about others. Imperfect people making imperfect decisions. But Brian is still here, against all odds. It is possible to think Melinda is worthy of criticism and yet also think she is not some evil person forcing Brian to tour against his will. Just remember that.

I think most people around Brian would agree that if Brian did not have a support system in place, he'd be in a far worse place in his life, or would not have made it this far. I'm sure Brian needs pep talks and coaxing for his own benefit. Touring for Brian in 2019 may to some degree possibly be considered both by Brian and his loved ones as the lesser of two evils. In that, maybe it's something Brian is starting to become weary of to some degree (about certain elements of touring)... but perhaps he fears the unknowns or slipping into bad habits and depression that might happen if he doesn't have shows to distract him. I'm sure there's still joy Brian's getting from touring, and maybe there's no other way to get that joy he craves.

Is that really so hard for some people to fathom? Same with Mike at this point, frankly. These guys grew up doing music stuff all the time, and having their schedule filled with the next show, the next recording session, interview, etc. They're wired for it.

Let's face it - I wish Brian was still writing songs, but if he doesn't have writing new material left in him at this point, but his brain has been wired to do one of two things: either be productive doing music stuff, or get depressed hearing voices/thinking about his late brothers/slipping into bad habits... then perhaps touring in 2019 is the closest thing he's able to do (to replicate the keeping busy doing music stuff type of lifestyle) that he is able to accomplish at 77. I think both Brian and his wife realize this. Give him (and her) a break.

https://www.desertsun.com/story/life/2019/08/29/brian-wilson-writing-songs-beach-boys-founder-unsure-new-album-touring-zombies/2152535001/

Can we read this article and just agree we love the music? Doesn’t matter who or what entity is in control let’s just be happy the beach boys music is out there! I’m just tryin to “Keep the summer Alive” I’m only 24 I’ve been to 35 Beach Boys related concerts and I’ve loved ever single one’!

Love & Mercy

Derek

EXACTLY. God, I wish I could use that as my signature, but even then people wouldn't believe it. I've said it, what, how many times now? About 50, 60 million times?!

As I said before, Mike Love gets what he gives. Many, hundreds of others who are not necessarily affiliated with this board, have expressed their dislike for Mike Love in the same vein as I have. In fact, there are several sites that dedicate themselves to their distaste of him "all around the internet" which by your post, you've been an active reader. As a band member who certainly owes his lifestyle to another band member, Mike Love has taken liberty to infest his interview comments with negative references to the man that kept him from working in a metal fabrication shop. So, regardless of while you spread your food for thought :lol, Think about this KP, Mike Love readily deserves, yes deserves any negative comment he gets, and that's getting off very lightly indeed.

I didn’t think about the fact that he’s not a native English speaker, but I can’t think of any language where it wouldn’t come off as nice once “wife” was included, along with the nature of the other posts the OP made. A language barrier doesn’t excuse acting like an ass. Just saying

Works for me!