My thoughts exactly.

But why dwell on that if the album that exists is awesome???

Revisionist history is a perfectly valid exercise IMO. George Martin has said that one of his greatest regrets as Beatles producer was not including Strawberry Fields and Penny Lane on Sgt. Pepper's, presumably in place of Lovely Rita and When I'm Sixty-Four (he diplomatically didn't specify). TALOYF is charming but somewhat insipid (again IMO) & STD is topical, pandering, completely unremarkable mediocrity. The substitution of the two majestic alternatives under discussion (which fit in PERFECTLY with the mood of the rest of the album), in an alternate universe, would have been an undeniable improvement, to put it mildly, and lifted the album into the absolute stratosphere.

What reason might there be for excluding it? Let's think positively!

Because DD owns the original recording.

That would be a legitimate potential roadblock, if true (hopefully he would be cooperative in honor of Dennis' memory. One would assume/hope that Dennis would've wanted it released). Can anyone verify this?

Also, can't see why people would want a box set full of the albums, rather than a box set full of previously unreleased stuff. I would TOTALLY take the previously unreleased stuff. This is probably one of our last chances to hear some of these holy grails people!

I don't think a box made up of only unreleased stuff has ever been planned or suggested.

A release of this kind would be groundbreaking, in keeping with a relatively recent band tradition that began with first the original 2-fers + bonus tracks, then the PS boxset, continued with the GV set (many rarities), and TSS, and taking it a step further. There is every indication that wise heads are prevailing at Capitol these days, and our hopes may be rewarded with an unprecedented (to my knowledge anyway, which is admittedly incomplete) all-rarities box. Hopefully the potential hard-core fan constituency will be adjudged to be adequate, I pray that any optimism doesn't prove to be unwarranted. If anyone is listening, an alternate "isn't it Time" would provide not one solitary iota of incentive for me to purchase any new product, whatsoever. Do the right thing, people!

Wrong.  

Yeah, but here's the question - is it still being planned or suggested?

It's certainly being suggested.

Here.  

I don't understand what was so awful about not doing drugs and drinking, like some of the fans seem to think.  I just read a long profile in The New Yorker about Bruce Springsteen in which Miami Steve says Bruce is the only person he ever knew who never did drugs of any kind.  Yet he managed to have a long and successful and highly creative career. Springsteen wrote a lot of classic songs stone cold sober, without pot or LSD to give him creativity.  Who woulda thunk it?  The Wilson brothers were all really messed up at a certain time period.  You really think Carl was better on junk and alcohol, singing like he did on those tapes from Australia?  I'm pretty sure Carl eventually came around to the Love/Jardine way of thinking.  It's one thing to do drugs and drink recreationally, another to do it so much that you do 5 grams of cocaine a day like Brian or drink and drug yourself to the extent of Dennis.

MIU isn't that bad.  It has quite a bit of Brian on it.  I'm also not convinced that Dennis was the second coming of Brian, sorry.  POB is nice, but it's not quite my own personal cup of tea.  I bought the reissue a few years ago and played it through maybe once or twice.  If some people love it, great, but to me, Dennis wrote some nice songs here and there, but no, he was not anywhere close to his brother Brian in terms of talent.

IMO his talent was of a different order, but almost equally powerful, emotionally speaking, just in a different sense. Not as prolific and more uneven (although actually until the last couple of years of his songwriting days, VERY consistent, quality-wise). POB is not everyone's cup of tea, but there is no denying it's power and brilliance, and that of almost everything he did before '77 (quite a bit of fine material after that too). His talent was a shining gem with a uniquely evocative emotional resonance, gradually diminished by his experiences with The Family, substance abuse (a by-product of that trauma, which he never fully recovered from) and internecine squabbles & contentiousness which thwarted his ambitions and gradually infused his work with an increasingly morbid and grandly fatalistic feel, especially post-POB. Ah, what could have been....

POB allegedly did not sit too well with Brian Wilson

Brian might actually be the album's biggest fan, he loved it more than Dennis probably did.

Considering Brian has said he's never heard it at certain times, I'd hardly say he's the album's biggest fan.

Where and when has Brian ever said anything positive about POB? What did he specifically say (not what do we vaguely think he might have said, what did he say) I'm not disputing he's praised POB, i just can't remember ever hearing or reading him having said anything about it at all and i'd be interested to hear his thoughts....

1977..crawdaddy interview lp with brian by pete fornatale...
pete.."dennis has a solo lp coming out, does he not?"
brian--"yes he does. it's a good..i heard some of the cuts...down at the studio between beach boy sessions he said "hey brian come here i want you to hear this". he played it for me. i said dennis that's funky..that's FUNKYYYYY. you know i said hey that's good..i like it, it's great..it's good good work. your gonna have a hit album, i hope he has a hit album. dennis wilson's solo album is gonna be a good album."

so there's one for ya!

Really touching, in light of the jealousies and quid pro quo demands that derailed the solo tour and possibly played a role (amongst many personal factors of course) in preventing his solo ambitions (his only remaining avenue for creative expression, given the band's complacency) from reaching full fruition.

I think it's from the 1989 TV series. That's also one of the best live versions of "Sloop John B" I've ever seen/heard...

You should know, Sheriff!

Stranger things have happened, it's true, esp. If Alan Boyd is guiding the selection of bonus cuts, but he may well justifiably feel he has gone above and beyond the call of duty with TSS and all his previous herculean efforts, and, given his recent illness, be taking a well-deserved hiatus from the archival fray. Knowing him, though, this would be a capper to all that came before and a difficult project to turn down, if he's up to it health-wise. Heartening to see that he will be participating in the Adam Marsland Chaos Band concert on Aug 3. So glad that you're on the mend, Alan!

SurfRider, Please tell us that the '74 California Feeling demo will be on it as well. I actually have even more interest in Dennis' "I've Got a Friend" studio instrumental track, but there isn't a chance in hell....

He said he's trying to get it all in the form he wants and make sure it's written well, which is hard to do on the fly. Hopefully it will eventually be worth the wait. Take your time, buddy.

Appreciate your sharing the title here (& hope you don't have to endure fallout for your honesty) but more concerned with the unreleased material to be included, which you mentioned in your initial post, thereby voluntarily incurring our scrutiny and curiosity.

Yes, like the "Professor", I don't care anything about backstage hijinks, just the facts, ma'am. I see that the original poster is perusing this thread right now, so hope that he is not merely "trolling" (seen his name here before, seemingly linked to solid content). We might be at a moment of revelation, akin to Al letting the TSS info slip out.

Hi SurfRider. You put what you heard about the box set and the inclusion of WIBNTLA in a different category than the "backstage hijinks"-type of personal things that you don't feel free to post, so I hope you will follow through and tell us what you learned about the former, the most important topic now under discussion on this board (hopefully the hostility of some of the previous comments won't dissuade you). To prevaricate after dropping these tantalizing tidbits would constitute flakery of a high order, and thank you in advance as we await news with eager anticipation, upon your convenience.

The truth lies somewhere between the two extremes being proffered here, and my opinion of him is evolving somewhat. Love's heartfelt comments at the Grammy Museum event were telling, and illuminated the multifaceted nature of his relationship with the group as a whole. He is a ham, which enables him to be comfortable onstage and entertaining, which the audience mostly enjoys, even if many also find his antics smarmy and annoyingly cutesy (the drawn-out opening to Be True to Your School? Insufferable IMO)

 He has also shaped and pushed the band toward his desired, mostly lightweight image relentlessly over the years, away from the progressive direction that the Wilson brothers were fighting for throughout most of the '70s, only reluctantly ceding a degree of hegemony to Brian and Al on the setlist, with these concessions wrested from his iron fist with great effort. He obviously is at least somewhat fond of the deeper cuts, as shown by his reactions to CA Saga's performances and his willing participation in the more serious work during the late '60s- early '70s  (with the exception of most of SMiLE, which he admires but is loathe to give too much credit to because doing so would be admitting both that it was beyond him lyrically and that he made a bad call by playing a significant role in creating a negative environment around the recording of it, two things he is not able to publicly acknowledge), but he is determined to give them as close to an obligatory role in the current tour as he can get away with (witness "It's O.K."s inclusion, a mediocre track at best but fitting his vision of the band's ideal, more commercial image).

There is an element of reactionary revisionism in the relatively recent, almost wholesale embrace of him by many, but some rehabilitation of his image is deserved, reluctant as I am to award it to the main Clean Liver (nothing wrong with that in and of itself, unless it inhibits creativity and progressive songwriting) who, along with Bruce and a now remorseful Al Jardine, steered the band towards becoming a nostalgia act in the mid-to-late '70s and thereafter.

I gotta also ask: based upon the above quote: as a fan, do you stop at say, say Friends or Sunflower and beyond when it was clearly not just Brian using tools to achieve greatness? Is there a point when you give it up for the other guys as valid artists in their own right even if the output run contrary to your personal tastes? I'm just trying to understand certain points of view which continue to throw me.

I certainly give ML credit as an artist. Believe it or not, I think I see him quite clearly in the totality of who he is. To the extent that he shaped the band's identity contrary to "my personal tastes" (which many share BTW) and away from a more creative direction, and has been a factor in thwarting their full artistic flowering, he is a frustrating figure, but I certainly acknowledge his vital role in the group and see the improbably triumphant and healing aspect of what's going on in these times for the band and their offspring, and fully celebrate that. Why does everything have to be so all or nothing, black or white?

"Some of these rocks are older than I am..."

 

The truth lies somewhere between the two extremes being proffered here, and my opinion of him is evolving somewhat. Love's heartfelt comments at the Grammy Museum event were telling, and illuminated the multifaceted nature of his relationship with the group as a whole. He is a ham, which enables him to be comfortable onstage and entertaining, which the audience mostly enjoys, even if many also find his antics smarmy and annoyingly cutesy (the drawn-out opening to Be True to Your School? Insufferable IMO)

 He has also shaped and pushed the band toward his desired, mostly lightweight image relentlessly over the years, away from the progressive direction that the Wilson brothers were fighting for throughout most of the '70s, only reluctantly ceding a degree of hegemony to Brian and Al on the setlist, with these concessions wrested from his iron fist with great effort. He obviously is at least somewhat fond of the deeper cuts, as shown by his reactions to CA Saga's performances and his willing participation in the more serious work during the late '60s- early '70s  (with the exception of most of SMiLE, which he admires but is loathe to give too much credit to because doing so would be admitting both that it was beyond him lyrically and that he made a bad call by playing a significant role in creating a negative environment around the recording of it, two things he is not able to publicly acknowledge), but he is determined to give them as close to an obligatory role in the current tour as he can get away with (witness "It's O.K."s inclusion, a mediocre track at best but fitting his vision of the band's ideal, more commercial image).

There is an element of reactionary revisionism in the relatively recent, almost wholesale embrace of him by many, but some rehabilitation of his image is deserved, reluctant as I am to award it to the main Clean Liver (nothing wrong with that in and of itself, unless it inhibits creativity and progressive songwriting) who, along with Bruce and a now remorseful Al Jardine, steered the band towards becoming a nostalgia act in the mid-to-late '70s and thereafter.

Murry convinced Carl that he was Mexican and then made him wear a fake moustache.

The stories are endless, really

Really quite amusing.

Could you provide a bit more detail, please?

Original narration was by Dustin Hoffman.

There was apparently a Dennis/Dragon album in a nascent stage of preparation, and some tasty tidbits from it lie fallow in the vaults.

What was the original sequence of notes at the beginning of "I'm Waiting For the Day" intended to be, before it was changed when the session musician made his "outtasight mistake". That error sounded like an inimitably Brian note sequence, which was probably why he liked it so much and kept it in the track, but what was planned for that spot?

I think they sound really fantastic with their 2nd generation sibling & genetically related blend, they have their family's true soul and spirit and a deep affinity & connection with their parents' music. Justyn sounds amazingly like his father. To hear DEEP cuts like Friends, Anna Lee & Little Bird that have NEVER been performed live (the latter 2 anyway) is spine-tingling.

Stellar.

If they leave off WIBNTLA because of jealously and disgruntlage of Dennis, then I don't think I'd want anything to do with the Beach Boys. The guy's been freaking dead for nearly thirty years, and they'd need to get over themselves.

I doubt that'd be the case, though, or else we wouldn't have had "4th of July," "A Time To Live In Dreams," "Barbara," "All Alone," and the second of only two released instances of "San Miguel." Not to mention "I Don't Know" on TSS -- which is primarily a Brian project; certainly if they still held a grudge, they wouldn't have let Dennis's tune infiltrate a Smile compilation.

My guess: they're just saving it, that's all...after all, it WAS planned for a DVD release, but the entire project was scrapped.

As i say, if WIBNTLA surfaces this year i'll admit i was wrong, but i sure wouldn't bet money on it... But, you know, that's not an enormous number of songs you've listed above there - there's still so many more top quality Dennis tracks still languishing in the vaults: I'm Going Your Way, Carry Me Home, Mona Kani, the aformentioned WIBNTLA, etc. And the Smile Sessions I Don't Know argument is odd - including a Dennis demo amongst a 150+ track boxset does not disprove my theory.

But your 'the guy's been dead for 30 freakin' years, get over yourselves' comment? Nicely put.

This song's's extraordinary high quality stands out from the rest of Dennis's unreleased material left in the vault, and, while they could have snuck it in as a bonus track on the SU reissue, there might be some reluctance to let it be the most conspicuous, noteworthy inclusion in the kind of high-profile commemorative release that this year will hopefully see. That would be awful indeed. It would be a perfect capper to all the events of the last year, and hopefully the prospect of increased sales will overcome any pride or ego issues that could be involved. The circumstances were different around the inclusion of the other unreleased DW tracks on EH and Hawthorne, CA. The excitement that would be generated by this song's release (+ the '74 California Feeling demo and the "I've Got A Friend" track) would be huge, and if anyone in power is reading this, please do the right thing!

To say the sets are "full" of unexpected additions is exaggeration. Love has basically succeeded in imposing his preferred agenda on the setlists, "Marcella" and "Add Some Music" notwithstanding.

..."Marcella", "Add Some Music", "This Whole World", "All This Is That", "California Saga", "Sail On Sailor", "I Just Wasn't Made For These Times", "Kiss Me Baby", "Please Let Me Wonder", "Cottonfields", "That's Why God Made The Radio", "Isn't It Time", et cetera et cetera notwithstanding.

Take an actual look at the current setlists:  nearly half the tracks being played weren't hits.  For a tour which is trying to reach the hits-loving audience as much as the art-loving audience, that's about as fair a split as you can get.

Regards,
Jon Blum

"Isn't It Time" & "That's Why God Made the Radio" are being performed in order to promote the new album, so can't really be counted in the above equation (which doesn't seem to work out to "roughly half" at 1st impression, but haven't done the math).There is no shortage of uptempo hits in the set, no danger whatsoever of not reaching that audience, and it's condescending to assume that they would be put off by a larger sampling of slower "art" tracks. Andrew's repeated assertion that the constituency for those types of tunes are not attending the concerts (and therefore their opinions are irrelevant) is questionable. Maybe not, but maybe it's because they are disappointed not to have the opportunity to hear more of their favorites.

We know from ample anecdotal evidence that Love is the principal oppositional force in favor of relative conventionality, it's a red herring to suggest otherwise. The Jardine "Prayer" snub and grudging acceptance of "Marcella" are telling. He played more deep cuts on the previous BB tours in recent years, but now that the stakes are higher and Wilson is present I have a feeling that he has a stronger desire to put his stamp on this band lineup and career-capping tour, as definitive as is now possible. It would rankle if there were any further tilt in the direction of artistic ambition at the expense of commerciality, which would highlight a contrast with his basic vision for the group. There are definitely ego issues involves, at least to a degree, IMO, esp. when it comes to SMiLE material. He was willing to perform it "unplugged" in the '90s, with Carl still present, but it would be anathema to him to have to do any more of it in this context, and he would fight hard if any more significant pressure was applied from within (highly doubtful) in this regard.

MAJOR kudos to Jardine for pushing for it, speaking up for SU (and Dennis's opinion) on Charlie Rose, and even for leaking the delicious TSS info prematurely last year, indicating his enthusiasm. He talks enthusiastically about looking forward to sitting down and watching the GV session footage he was sent in the new PBS special, obviously more appreciative in retrospect of their more cutting-edge creative work, and reportedly regrets siding with Love and Johnston in the defining final battle for group direction in "78.

There was not a single mention of SMiLE in the PBS special, and you could just feel the tension against its inclusion and
the inability and resistance of Love to maturely integrate its unique heritage into a nuanced recounting of the group's history, which pop music historians will not judge him kindly for.