The Smiley Smile Message Board

I thought it appropriate to note that the Smiley Smile forum and community reached something of a milestone in mid-November, one which flew under the radar but one which deserves a mention and thanks just the same.

This forum on November 15th posted the most users online at one time in its history. The previous mark for most visitors at one time was the time Brian Wilson came here for a live Q&A session with members, in early 2015. Even since November 15th, the numbers have been staying high. There is a lot to be excited about, for sure.

I just wanted to take this moment to thank everyone who stops in as part of their regular online routine to read the latest news and conversations, and especially those who contribute and post whether it be once or multiple times daily.

It's the people posting, reading, and sharing who make the forum and community a neat place to hang out for Beach Boys fans.

And in spite of what will soon be 13 years of naysayers and critics saying it won't last, it will collapse after so-and-so departs, message boards are dead, the place is a parking lot...It's still running. For all the various issues and squabbles and dust-ups and everything else that happens every so often, we're still here. It's not just running, it's running strong and posting the best viewership numbers we've ever had just in the past month.

And it's a cool place to be.

So thank you, everyone here, and here's a toast to even more years of talking Beach Boys and hanging out.  :beer

I'll drink to that. It's most encouraging to see Smiley doing so well. The recent Barney Kessel topic is exemplary in that respect. ::) 

Long live message boards in the age of social media! Quality before quantity, as a good friend just reminded me. ;)

Keep up the good work, folks. :)

Congrats ;D

What took place in 15 Nov.? Anybody rmbr? It isn't due date to new BBs CE digital d/ls, IIRC.

Thanks, GF. The squabbles partially reflect the undying passion of those who can't wait too long to hear the BBs when they add some music to their day. Often added competition grows both enterprises, and that may have been the silver lining that emerged from the dust-up. Some people aren't meant to be together, no matter how hard they try to co-exist, and they're better off running the show without too much ongoing challenge. Let 'em run wild!  :3d

Why does SS continue to thrive? Crossover between the two boards has settled in over time, and the distinction between them has been established to a level of self-sustaining sufficiency. New folks are able to more easily sense the differences in approach, and either make peace with it all, or choose to align with the one that suits their viewpoint. The other place has a great deal of the UK contingent, as well as a more concentrated undercurrent of those whose politics align with the more "conservative" tendencies that have long been lurking in the band. Over here we have a higher concentration of musician-analysts (though some of the "official historians" have found it politic to straddle both "venues"); a look at the content in the parallel discussions of the 1968 CE sets should confirm this--much more of an attempt to place the newly discovered material in historical and musicological context here.

And that's one major reason for SS being able to survive so well. The other board is worth reading but they tend to rehash a good bit of what was already discussed here many years ago. That's inevitable, of course--they have to replicate a lot of resource info in order to be a viable destination for newbies. And then there's the fact that this board took on an "outsider" identification--Smiley Smile, as opposed to something "safer" (like Pet Sounds or Surf's Up or All Summer Long). Choosing that name signifies the recognition that the BBs cover an incredible and sometimes contradictory amount of "aesthetic real estate," and this underlying impetus is one of the things that continues to energize this place in a way that doesn't quite exist anywhere else.

And, then, of course, there's Ed Roach, Debbie Keil, Ray Lawlor...three people with the unimpeachable ring of truth and no axes of any kind to grind.

This is a great opportunity for all us to count our blessings. Happy holidays and here's to 2019 when we get an even more illuminating CE set!

Thanks so much GF...and it wouldn't be even close to what it is without your hard work and all those of you who make it happen.

Cheers! ;D

Agreed 100%. I think back to three or more years ago when Guitarfool was being harassed on every corner of this board and some people wanted him gone because he was trying to clean up this place. Yet this forum is now a haven of incredible information with pretty much zero drama. As JK said above, the recent Barney Kessel topic is a testament to the depth of knowledge that is ever present on this forum.

A major thanks to GF, Billy, and the countless others who make this place such a special and necessary part of the fandom. I've been a member for almost 10 years now, and I can't wait to see what the next 10 bring!

I really appreciate the fact there are a lot of active places to discuss this fantastic band - makes me wish there were such places over here in Japan.

Thanks for keeping the board going, we're not so far until we get to Smiley Smile's 15 Big Ones! :)

15 big ones SSers Collaboration album? I want rab to sing its ok or rock and roll music!

Billy can sing everyone’s in love with you since his kid can make a better backing track than the album version.

Agreed Rab...GF and Billy both put up with an unbelievable amount of crap, some of it defending me and my right to tell the truth here, and I truly appreciate it. I suspect there were things behind the scenes that they also cleaned up that we'll never know about. Some of the shadows of what was going on there was pretty obvious, but they had to deal with it all. That took guts. The people with ugly and/or self-serving agendas, along with some serious head-case trolls and liars appear to be gone. That's a big deal.

Now to the positive side of why this place still thrives - lots of knowledge and intelligence still gives this board fascinating, up-to-date info. It's a treasure without the trauma of the past. We owe these people a lot!

:lol

Hey the crazy part is she is already working on a dubstep cover of Busy Doin' Nothing so there you have it :D

On a different note...I'd like to echo what has been said before.  I joined up here as a regular member on Christmas of 2005. Can't believe it's been that long!  I'm also glad that things have settled down on most fronts here and elsewhere; the Beach Boys' fan community can be a bit volatile at times, but at the end of the day most of us are just that...fans


Most definitely. A lot of it was down to one person in particular, but thankfully him and his stench are gone and he's eating crumpets elsewhere.

I would so love to hear that.

If memory serves...wasn't November 15th, 2018 the day OSD made it known across each and every forum known to man [and woman] -kind that he would be here posting in the 'buff'?  Congrats to those who deserve further credit.  Seems like the place can still get 'it' up [numbers wise] even without the various and sundry,  long lost malcontents.

Lee! ;D

 :lol

What would we do without all of you? Laugh a lot less, I'm thinking. Thx for making this fun.

My lunch! Why did you leave me so suddenly?

Guitarfool, I've been reading the Rocky Book Thread on the PS Forum and just want to extend my thanks to you for being willing to share your knowledge (and the truth about certain events) to even the most remote parts of the fandom. It's pretty funny to see how certain posters there petulantly act on their own forum then have the gall to question why they were perma-banned on this forum...Like you say, it is all in black and white on this forum for everyone to read...shouldn't take a rocket scientist or even a bad lawyer to get that.

And many thanks again for being a tremendous part of this great community!

Hard to believe I joined here on Christmas of 2005. Time flies!

And thanks again to every member on this forum....you are definitely appreciated!

Thank you, Billy, GF, and Chuck for having us (read: me) here!

At the end of the day, whether you own and have memorized every scrap of music that has been legally released and  bootlegged or you only know the hits and Pet Sounds, we are all fans.

Thank you guys for having me here too. I started at the other place but OMG some of them seem to get hot and sticky over you all  and it is getting tiresome. I am about 5 seconds away from blowing up at them because some of them are extremely childish . I am there to discuss music like i am here and to be completely forthcoming , to learn more about my favorite band.  Many of you all at both sites know like WAY more than me.  I just do not want to see any more fighting and mud flinging so I am probably going to stay here more often. I sadly have to confess that at first I did not have a good opinion on here because of what a few people there keep saying and that fact it took a very long time to get my account approved.  Now it is  nice to be able to read about the 1968 collection material without reading any shade being thrown.

He is without sin can toss the first stone and all that jazz

Truer words have rarely been spoken...very well put.


Thank you for the kind words, although honestly I'd prefer if it you wouldn't sling mud back at them too.  That said, thank you for the support!

Congrats to Smiley Smile!  I'm new here but have been a reader (lurker) for years and love this board and its posters. I appreciate the knowledge of the posters; Debbie and Ray and the experts; and Craig, Billy, and Chuck. I'm also a new fan (of three years) and love hearing from those from way back. ;)

Ah I remember being a new fan as well. Twenty three years goes by quickly apparently!

 What are your favorites?

Thank you Rab and everyone else who contributes to this forum!

On another note, I just got banned from the Pet Sounds Forum. So the lies being told by what is sadly a very small percentage of posters there who have grudges from over 2 years ago will continue to be posted freely and without any action from the moderators, apparently. When someone takes a punch at you, you're not allowed to either defend yourself or even put up a block according to the "rules" there. Not surprising but disappointing just the same. So much for wanting to have a new forum and a new vibe overall - I guess having the same 8-10 rotten apples that lied and bullied and insulted and harassed other posters here (or simply couldn't follow the rules) for too long is a more important notion than seeing the future of the community, i.e. "the barrel" getting spoiled in favor of protecting those rotten apples.

I thought the moderators and admins were bringing a new outlook and vision to the place - Obviously coddling those who were banned here for their own actions is more of a priority than moving things forward.

That could explain why the Pet Sounds Forum is lucky to break 20 posters reading at any given time, and barely makes it to 30.

On that note... :)

Long May AGD bully... ::)

Which was outrageous seeing that they were lying about us.

Filldepage outright lied about why she was banned, and Sherif John Stone wrote a lengthy post saying point blank that Craig wasn't wanted there. All they get is a slap on the wrist. Wow...

That’s the scary part.

At some point it has to be said that's who they are, and that's what they do. I thought new mods and admins would bring a new kind of vibe to the place, yet it seems the same relatively small group either has immunity from the rules, or is actually running the place in such a de facto way that the mods won't take action beyond the proverbial slap on the wrist because they're afraid of what some of them will do in return.

It happens again and again, the same people violating the same rules posted clearly on that board, and in some cases doing it immediately after a warning from the mods as if they're spitting on the mods' collective shoes and daring them to act, and no one acts. Then the lies and distortions start, and bingo - There it is.

It's sad because I thought the new admins and mods were going to change things, and it's right back to the bullshit thanks to that same small group who almost destroyed this place.

And as I posted over there, all of these lies and distortions can be debunked easily because 99.9% of what they're lying about is archived and available to view, and it's not like they're trying to lie about things that don't exist or that no one still alive was involved in. That to me is mind-boggling, the stupidity of trying to say "I was banned for having personal opinions" while the real reasons exist and can be called up on demand anytime.

It was filldepage that was bringing up "last grudges", yet Craig is the one blamed for the very same thing. I'm curious if Craig is going to be given a change to "appeal" the ban.

At this point I have no clue what happened other than I was going to write the mods privately over there and got a white screen saying I was banned.

Filledeplage - It speaks for itself, doesn't it? Outright lies, distortions, and when called out she disappears or ignores it entirely. Or, writes a response that has nothing to do with the original issue.  Happens over and over, and that's ok I guess? Just pure lies and distortions, and if someone who actually knows the facts challenges her or calls out the lies, THEY get warned.

If she brings up this board over there in a discussion, which in this and several other cases she did, it's not her breaking the rules or derailing the thread, but it's the fault of whoever replies to it. That's who they are, that's what they do.

That's how it is. Duly noted. But it's nothing new, is it?

I'm curious about the status of Watamushi as a member here.

And so they've still managed to ooze into this thread and f*** up our modest little celebration.  Ignore the mo'fos.  They're not missed.  Thier collective campaign to hoist dirty Mike and his LOVEly ways here brought the proceedings to a halt.  The attack on several who chose to confront that kind of right wing, fact-free fuckery has been cast adrift.  They wallow in the poop pudding of their new cesspool.  Leave it to them and let us continue, rather, to enjoy ourselves and also to converse with dubious salesmen who pop in to stir the pot with their random stories and fictional fantasies.

Watamushi is more than welcome and appreciated here as a great member and person who actively posts and contributes to interesting discussions. If there is a problem with Watamushi being a mod there and posting here, that would be pretty pathetic, wouldn't it?

In the "Rocky" thread, Watamushi came on and issued a warning, after which two members specifically posted as if they were flaunting the fact that they were able to ignore his warning and have no consequences. That is another example of some members thinking they're above the rules for whatever reasons they may have. Right, Manning?

And that's one of the things we're proud of here, how we kicked all of that bullshit out the door whether it stepped on "important" people's toes or not. Good riddance, I hope the door hit them in the ass on the way out. Not welcome back here, ever, period.

It's a better place without them. The numbers seem to back that up too.

Exactly, Lee. They're not missed, and it's better without them.  :)

Watamushi has been a great poster here. Which is why I’m even more blown away by such a terrible act of moderation on that forum.

Sheriff John Stone was banned from here due to admitting to years of trolling Brian fans.
Mike’s Beard was banned at one point for harassing one of Brian’s previous girlfriends on this very forum.

Yet Guitarfool is perma banned for replying to false accusations and those who first veered the conversation off-topic are given slight slaps on the wrist.

I’m incredibly disappointed in that mod decision and those who made it. But again, doesn’t surprise me given the atmosphere and members of that forum.

Mushi rules! (Somewhere in Japan!)

I'm glad to see that we can be impartial and not good a grudge against Watamushi, despite the recent turn of events.

Yes, I was there strictly to disrupt and my "confrontational postings" were what did it.

So - That's bullshit. As much as I value Watamushi for what he brings here, that is bullshit.

How about a ban for Filledeplage for actually starting the sh*t that I responded to? Like repeatedly bringing up grudges from the past?

What a joke. Again, no wonder the average readership there barely cracks 20 on average.

Hey guys, is Filledeplage protected from any moderator action over there?

Dear God not here too! Can we not just stop all the fighting?! I confess that I myself think this is all bullcorn and bullshit both at the same time and I came oh so very close to deleting my account over there until I saw two of the others also suspended for their part too. So I am like okay so maybe this is over but I come here and we are all back to the same thing. So I am going to verbalize the same thing I did over there...can we not just all start over?!


I am going to start.


“Hello my name is Rebecca and I am a Beach Boys addict”

Two moderators who have no respect from the same 10 or so rotten apples who tried to ruin this place. Nice.

I guess John Manning and Filledeplage have immunity, right? As in, disrespect the rules, break the rules, disrespect the moderators, openly flaunt that they are disrespecting the moderators, and nothing happens.

And the moderators are afraid to do anything about it because of who they think these people are.

Good luck with that.

Again, as the door closed here on some of that bullshit and hopefully hit them in the ass on the way out, it was some of the best times ever had on this forum.

What the hell did I wake up to?

Yes, again I stand by what I said about Watamushi and his activity here, but he was completely full of sh*t in regards to my wanting to come there strictly to cause problems, and my confrontational posts. If someone posts a lie, and someone can correct it with *fact*, is the person correcting it in the wrong? Then bans are issued for being confrontational when the people actually bringing up the old grudges and breaking the rules are given free passes?

Watamushi, if that's the kind of crap you'll use to moderate over there, I hope the reasons why you're giving Filledeplage and Manning free passes are worth it. Because your credibility just went down considerably.

It's not a positive to be a puppet for anyone...just sayin'.

Rab - I have to correct: Sheriff Stone was not banned from this board, and is not currently banned. He has always been free to come and go as he pleases.

Mike's Beard on the other hand created a fake account and used it to evade a ban, issued after multiple warnings and lesser suspensions, then used that account to come on and resort to name-calling and insults.

That ban is permanent and for life, as spelled out in the rules here if things are done to evade a ban, you're banned for life - end of story, no quarter. If Watamushi and Dick want that kind of poster over there with a history of this kind of behavior, you can have him with our blessing.

Luhvstains...

Doe’s minions are too much for one moderator to handle. Mushi is like Billy without anyone to back him like GF! ( No offense to Billy)

No matter who is involved, the facts are laid out and yet people are allowed to continue breaking posted rules and disrespecting moderators. And it's the same people, yet again, who tried to ruin this place, and who are now seemingly immune on a forum that after 2+years in operation still can't average more than 20-30 readers at any given time. Then some of them call this place a "parking lot"? Haha. Nice one.

And so called "respected" members of the Beach Boys community, in the form of publishers, authors, "historians", and whatnot call this forum toxic? The numbers don't agree, do they? Maybe that's why the demand for whatever that same small group of posters and their writings can't generate the interest of more than 20-30 readers at a time. Maybe those self-appointed respected people hitched their wagons to the wrong horses?

Just sayin'.

Nothing much. Just another lovely day in Beach Boys land.

No offense taken! One person can't do it on his/her own.


Hi Rebecca! :lol

I understand how you feel. I wish more felt like you do personally. I too want this to stop but it's going to take a concentrated effort on all sides and all involved.

Nothing will stop as long as lies are allowed to be told openly and allowed to stand unchecked, and people are allowed to post lies openly with no recourse.

It's a nice sentiment to say let's all stop this but there isn't much more that can be demonstrated beyond what's been happening to show that this is not what is wanted from those relatively small numbers of posters actively involved in the Pet Sounds Forum, is it?

The leopard can't change its spots, and in this case yet again the same 10 or so rotten apples are allowed to keep spoiling the barrel and distorting facts as they please, and moderators apparently accept that they are lying, agree with the lies in spite of seeing the truth, or are powerless to do anything to act on it.

So, hope is slim. But those with the facts can and will happily produce them any time it's necessary without fear of getting "banned" by those lying and distorting.

I guess the asterisk was left off this post to exclude Filledeplage, John Manning, and others in that group who can ignore the rules, disrespect the mods' warnings and posts, and do whatever the hell they want and be allowed to get away with it unchecked.

So much for not playing favorites.

Having finally seen the thread in question -thank you for the dual member who was nice enough to share it with me   ( http://petsoundsforum.com/thread/2355/rockys-book?page=8 ) to me personally sounds like fillindablanks should've gotten a time out as well


Edit. Sorry for basically parroting what you said, Craig.

Just tell those of us who are interested, why is Filledeplage given a free pass on the PS Forum and allowed to openly lie, break the rules, start sh*t by bringing up old grudges and whatnot repeatedly, and all the other stuff without any action being taken?

If I'm going to be publicly blamed for instigating things that Filledeplage instigated (and which was on display for everyone to read unless it's been edited or altered since), and she has a history of doing the same thing then lying about it or evading the points entirely, it's not too much to ask for a clarification.

Or are favorites indeed being played? Manning too, but that's commonplace after the sh*t he pulled here.

No problem, Billy - Thanks for posting that.

Now everyone can see the bullshit with their own eyes, and see who it really was that started this sh*t which I'm now blamed for. Catch it before it gets altered or scrubbed.

Hint: It's Filledeplage again.

Wondering who the mods think she is, unless there is another reason why they never take any action if she's involved or why it feels she can break any rules she chooses and gets a free pass.

My favorite part is the "evidence" that Watamushi linked in Guitarfool's banned thread. It was two posts of Guitarfool rightfully defending himself from off-topic false accusations...and by "defending" I mean it was Guitarfool civilly responding and then trying to get the conversation back on topic. And now the PS forum has an "Ass kissing thread" I guess to mock this one. I wonder if the person who started that thread will get a few gold stars from the mods for that move.

I think Billy is partially right in that it will take concentrated effort for the "fighting" to stop. However, I think this thread right here is the most the PS Forum has been talked about on this forum in well over 6 months. Whereas go to any random thread there and you can usually read some childish digs about this place at least a couple times a week. And you'd think if their forum was so good they wouldn't waste so much of their time bitching about this one.

But the "concentrated effort" that Billy wants needs to come from the moderators of a forum allowing some pretty bad stuff to happen on their turf. In a couple days this forum will go back to talking about Beach Boys stuff, whereas the lying and nonsense will just continue over there as long as a few of their members are allowing to get by Scott-free when they clearly break the rules.

Guitarfool, thanks for the correction about Sheriff John Stone. After his admitting to such a petulant troll job I just assumed he was banned, I forgot he just skittered off.

 Thank  “f***” they didn’t mention me or OSD!  ;)

I'm sure the 20 regular readers will enjoy that. Yeah, bring it on if that's what they want.


Yes, of course my posts were pulled out of context and distorted to fit what Watamushi and Dick/Kane needed it to fit. That's how they justified their bullshit actions and bullshit in general, but it obviously isn't true as even observers reading through it are noticing.

So Watamushi and Dick, in your new capacity as the two mods running the place, are you happy that your first action is based on bullshit that outside observers are noticing and calling out as bullshit? Not to mention your complete avoidance of those like Filledeplage and Manning who publicly took a sh*t on your orders and posts and did what they wanted, and got away with it.

If you needed a scapegoat, you chose the wrong one. Usually the best scapegoats are the ones who don't have proof and facts to produce when needed. Just in case you need one in the future.

Elton says hi! 😉

I was afraid of posting this because I am afraid I now will get banned for retaliation but I lost a lot of respect for certain people after the way this was handled. Last time I myself tried to broker some sort of peace or plea for us all to make things right, I got slammed by a couple of people and made to feel like an idiot, then got a private message or two trying to give me dirt which I promptly said uh uh to.  Oh and was told that maybe I should post here instead like the implication was I was not welcome.  It was just a couple of people but jeez louise why does it even have to be like this. I am this close to saying to hell with both forums and leaving for good. The drama and irritation is something I do not need as I am struggling with my sobriety.

So whatever I just want this to stop.


I hope this does go back to discussing the music because that is why I am here and there

ChewBecca if this is affecting you that much, then maybe you need to step back. I say that out of respect, and I hope you don't take it the wrong way.  I know how you feel; it's one of the reasons why I've been listening way more to Billy Joel than the Beach Boys lately...much less baggage.

Listening does not give baggage......  The internet / message boards may?     Love the Friends set,     wait ... Listen ...listen.. listen.. God Bless Brian Wilson.

Maybe just stop reading this thread, as I will do now.
I sometimes read posts on that other forum. I was sort of following the "Rocky" thread but when it started to turn ugly I stopped reading that thread.

Good point. Those new sets have been like a godsend to me. I know it's early but wonder what will be on next year's collection(s)...

I hate to contribute to any bickering or "us vs. them" mentality, but I think it's fair to say that any poster on any messageboard who evades a question (in the context of a polite back-and-forth conversation) is either basically a troll, or they are hiding something or protecting someone. Nobody should consider that acceptable behavior in a conversation, and nobody should coddle peers who do it. It should outrage *everyone*. It's not something that we, as humans, would do in person if having a convo with someone (just giving someone the silent treatment, or answering "veggie burger" to a question of "what time is it?").

Much like with politicians who have simply done/said something indefensible, it generally comes down to being about just wanting to not address something because they know there's no way to defend it. I'd be willing to bet stacks of money that the BBs messageboard people who do it are also the same folks who *would* call out similar behavior in a politician they didn't care for during a debate. (As a side note: no Democrat should find a Democratic politician's evasion of questions acceptable, and same vice versa no Republican should find a Republican politician's evasion of questions acceptable; as people, this is garbage behavior and a garbage way to conduct one's self, and enables corruption - does anyone really, truly, in their heart disagree with me on that?) And don't even get me started about whataboutism in context of message board threads. Ay carumba, man.

I wish people would just fess up and admit, flat out say that they want to extend special treatment to either member(s) of this band, another poster on a board, etc. Just say "we don't want to say/address/admit/respond to xyz because we don't want to piss off this particular person". Sometimes this has been implied, of course. While it might still be frustrating in the context of a disagreement, at least it'd be a modicum of an olive branch, and an honest and at least somewhat understandable stance to take and own; I don't think this makes someone a bad person to take that stance; it's the mindgames that some people play that are pretty toxic and problematic, IMHO.

That last sentence....I wish it would be flat out stated that it is for Andrew Doe's own amusement or whatever else he is greasing their palms with (perhaps with himself...). Turning the other cheek to filledeplage and John Manning's posts was kind of sickening if I'm being frank.

I don't post here a lot, but feel the need to chime in.  I've been a fan since 1970, I've done two newsletters "back in the day" (around 1976-1983), and I've never understood the in-fighting that goes on amongst followers of the Beach Boys.  In a sad way, it somewhat parallels the dysfunction of the band itself.  There are a number of people who seemingly relish the chance to continue the devisiveness.  I don't frequent the Pet Sounds board, but I went there today and was reading through the thread on Rocky/Ron's book.  I think both boards have their share of mischief-makers in their ranks.  To me, some of this is exacerbated by the anonymity that most people post under - for example, I don't know who virtually ANY of the members of either board are, almost everyone uses  a fake name.  Offhand, the only poster I know is Andrew Doe - I know there have been problems aplenty with Andrew, and I'm not taking sides - I'm just saying that, he at least is posting under his actual name.  To me, it seems the anonymity of posting under aliases makes it easier to sling mud. 


Having said all that, it seems to me that the real issue is that some people just like to stir up trouble.  Some people have their own agendas and take every opportunity to promote them.  It certainly takes away from what I see as the real purpose of boards like these two.  Which is, to share our love for this amazing band's music.

And then we'll have world peace!

well said Mtaber!

Congrats to smiley smile

And thanks to all it's members and guests and of course it's fantastic mods

 ;D  ;D

Thank you Shady!

And, seconded, SB

Long live Smiley Smile! :hat

All of the above brings us back to where we were at the start of this thread...the dust-up over there is more proof of some deep-seated compulsion that fuels a subset of participants there that cannot be controlled when they're brought back to the events that forced them to start their own "nearest faraway place." There is good info over there, some intelligent discussion that contributes thought-provoking insight...but there continues to be an unhealed wound there that festers, waiting to be re-opened. Marty has it right in that it does echo the history of the Beach Boys themselves.

So be it. We acknowledge it with a sigh of resignation...and "sail on."

^ 100% agreed Don

(https://media1.tenor.co/images/15e3adab9e36bb356a9521ec688bf579/tenor.gif?itemid=12452259&fbclid=IwAR2TdEeQrOUvScwGVnnuASzidJZO43mRZ9LPSQ_6KsF7F2URQOCWFU6pVzc)

Sickening is a good description. The whole thing isn't just sickening, use any similar term and it's pretty much an accurate commentary on how messed up a simple thing like that fan forum became because of a small group of people there (we should name them, because it's the same crew that sh*t on this board and people here until it was nipped in the bud). And it seems the current moderators are afraid to take appropriate action against certain people for whatever reasons, while believing and acting on lies, ignoring board violations and allowing them to stand without any action, then further distorting what actually happened when it played out in public. And people who read it can see what happened versus taking the word of known liars like Filldeplage who has a history of doing this exact thing going back several years.

So the mods can answer the question why did Filledeplage and John Manning get free passes while MikesBeard and Sheriff John Stone got publicly thrown under the bus for doing the same thing?

They could also answer why Watamushi posted comments of mine to justify a ban, comments taken out of context  that someone who isn't even a member there read, analyzed the context perfectly,  and called out as the bullshit it is?

They may also answer what happened to Dick/Kane's post here from 2017 when he took over as mod:

What do you call ignoring certain members' breaking of the board rules and constant shitting on your actions as a mod while calling out and scapegoating others if not playing favorites? For f**k's sake, it's not like no one is noticing this hypocrisy. Filledeplage and John Manning. Case closed.


The irony must be lost on the Pet Sounds Forum how the subject of the thread where all this happened, Rocky Pamplin, was branded a liar and therefore nothing he said was to be trusted or believed. Further, that no weight be given to anything he says in a book or elsewhere.

So the liars that have been exposed in the form of certain PS Forum posters and now perhaps a mod or two as well who posted lies and distortions that can and have been exposed...Should we apply the same standard as they did for Rocky Pamplin and moving forward nothing they say should be believed or acknowledged? I'm ok with that.

I don't want to speculate because I don't know what goes on behind closed doors, but you're right...it doesn't look right.

The timing of all this right when this thread was first started also too seems a bit iffy.

Despite the words of Dick and Watamushi who just told everyone that I came there "solely to squabble about off-topic issues"...I posted this topic as a sincere thank you to everyone who posts here, and to my friend Billy for holding the ship steady for over a decade, and Charles for the board in general, and all of that. It was a milestone to break the record of most viewers online at one time, and thought it was worthy of a tip of the collective cap for everyone who contributes.

If there was something with the timing of what happened over there, then yeah - That would be really pathetic, but not out of character perhaps.

So again, it was broadcast publicly that I was there "solely to squabble about off-topic issues" when every topic I posted in was done relevant to what was being discussed. And in this recent Rocky thread, again as others not even involved have seen and called out, my replies were to *OTHERS* like Filledeplage and Manning who went off topic to either lie, distort, or take personal shots at me. Then when I reported them, Dick called it "draining".  Well, tough sh*t. That's the gig. Sit in the chair Billy has had and deal with the sh*t here for 12+ years that he dealt with, and see what draining really is instead of whining when you don't want to take action against what appears to be favored people on that forum who are above the posted rules.

The conversations were still available - See who went off topic, and see how the posts of mine which you pulled out were in reply to some of your favored favorites going off topic and outright lying and distorting before accusing me of doing what they actually did.

So guys, Dick and Watmushi, if you're going to publicly try to pin this on me and assign things to me that did not happen, your credibility exists somewhere on the level of Rocky Pamplin, the topic of the thread where all this went down. Enjoy that with the 10 or so posters who get coddled and given free reign to disrespect you as moderators regularly.

I feel extremely bad for those members on both forums who don't care about the fighting...our job as moderators on BOTH FORUMS is to ensure that the fans have a worry-free drama free environment to post in. I admit that I haven't always been 100% in that regard; I let that lying charlatan Andrew Doe manipulate me and then later when I found out what kind of "man" he really is, to let my anger interfere. I own up to that.  After reading that thread I linked here I actually felt terrible, because people are being fed a line of BS and it's sickening.  What bothered me more than anything else was see a member basically plead for the feuding to stop and just end up getting ignored.

This can't go on, either here or there.

Right on. And the first step is to address those few who have done the same thing on multiple forums, Smiley, PS, and even others...and once and for all call it out and close the door on them. That's the only way to move forward if that's what needs to happen. The lies and distortions continuing even when the actual facts exist and are available as proof for all to see is a sign that the rotten apples really are rotten, and they will continue to spoil whatever barrel is built for them. The fact that a few people have histories of being banned, reprimanded, and in general acting like assholes across multiple years and multiple forums cannot be ignored. It's same people doing the same things...it really is as simple as that. Let's name them. See if any ring a bell.

When it reaches a point where the most recent moderators over there have to invent reasons to post why someone was banned, and make sh*t up based on their needs versus what actually played out (and can be readily seen in public posts) it's all but a lost cause. So write it off, and expose it for what it is. Then move on.

That was me you were referring to.  I must ask and please Billy C and guitarful do not take offense but what is hoped to be gained by all of this? I mean for reals, I am starting to see what is really going on as it is becoming much much clearer now but at the end of the day what happens?  My late father used to say "war does not determine who is right but only who is left" and I think that like sort of applies here.   I believe  you all, let me restate, after yesterday I BELIEVE YOU ALL, Ik denk dat u alle,  Yo creo que todos, Πιστεύω ότι όλοι σας , whatever. Just can both sides hash it out, and move on.  I mean  it would be nice to not get PMs from people trying to tell me dirt (has not happened here) or come here and then read about it.  The Beach Boys themselves would shake their head and call us all dysfunctional :(    I pled there and now I plead here.

ChewBecca, what do you mean by these statements? It'd be nice if you translated.

:lol I was gonna ask the same thing but I recognize the Spanish part...poorly translated it says “I believe all of that”. 

1978 Rocky punches out Carl Wilson
2018 Rocky kneecaps 2 message boards.

2Billy: Thanks.

2Pretty Funky: I'm tempted to reply with unfunny one-liner joke a la SMiLE Brian. :P

:lol

This is probably the most relevant he has ever been in his entire life, including  his actual birth

 :lol :lol

H'mm. Google Translate, methinks. :lol

How about: Ik geloof jullie allemaal. ;D

That said, CB, I appreciate your input in this topic (using the word in its broadest sense) here and across the road. :)

I didn't find Pretty Funky's comment funny. I didn't get it, thus it, by default, isn't funny. Makes sense. :police: Anyhoo, joining with thanks to everybody in the SSMB. We're cool! :3d

And to re-direct the topic back to Billy's question upthread to me (sorry--I would have responded sooner but was out all day). My favorites shift around regularly, but "Wouldn't It Be Nice," "Please Let Me Wonder," "God Only Knows," "Love and Mercy," Pet Sounds, SMiLE, and most through the late 1970s, and some pre-Pet Sounds songs. Also love the quirky Zappa-like songs of Brian Wilson (a long-time Zappa fan). Back to the BBs, I love what most of you on the board love, but became a fan on the spot after going to a Brian Wilson concert with someone else and was blown away--then started listening and reading. I am amazed at the knowledge here on the board.

Great catalogue of music tastes, reminds me of BW’s pre show music mix on the PA system.

Putin.... >:D

 ;D

Trump.... >:D

Touche.  ;D

if nothing else fdp likening the bans to an "intellectual purge" gave me a good laugh!

More like taking out the trash. Billy’s photo of Doe’s book in trash comes to mind... ;)

Looks like Filledeplage got suspended too, by one of the two mods. Hmmm. Too little too late? The backpedaling after the fact is a little frustrating, considering all of this was allowed to stand while others got scapegoated for doing far less or for doing nothing at all. The best way to stop that kind of thing (like Filledeplage) from infecting a board is to simply enforce the rules and step in when they're broken as openly as they were in this and similar situations, by the same person with a history of doing the exact same thing. Just sayin'.

So even though Watamushi falsely said I was there "solely to squabble about off-topic issues", the person who actually started the off-topic old-grudge bullshit who had done so repeatedly in the past and allowed to do so unchecked is now suspended too, retroactive or after-the-fact or something...

Perhaps when I replied to her bullshit and distortions in the middle of on-topic discussions, then went back to the on-topic discussions, I actually wasn't the one to blame for taking it off-topic?

Nice job guys, or guy in this case since it seems Watamushi was alone in putting the ban on Filledeplage and perhaps Dick found the whole thing too "draining" and didn't agree with banning a favored member.

A little honesty would have been nice, guys. As such, the credibility level is still somewhere around Rocky and Stan levels...Hope it's worth it to keep that shield around those favored members and/or benefactors and keep the 20 or so average readers content.

I''d put the man himself in there, but once he got to the landfill he'd probably just talk sh*t about the other trash

Wild Honey through Holland are my favorite recordings by anybody....not just the Beach Boys, I mean literally everybody.

Here's a confession that I never thought I would make...as great as Pet Sounds and SMiLE are, I think Wild Honey and Friends are even better.

I'm pretty sure filldepage was suspended yesterday along with mikesbeard and SJS.

Thank you JK and I actually used the Babelfish it was me making a funny saying the same thing in different ways so like everyone can understand what I meant but I could have done like a better job

No, it came later, after the fact, and Watamushi even posted that he should have done it at the same time as the other bans but did not. And Watamushi specifically said it was done on his own accord, suggesting Dick either didn't agree with banning Filledeplage, or maybe he didn't want to step on the toes of the favored few over there who are perhaps above the board rules.

So that's a glimpse into the moderation over there under the two new mods. It's posted openly for all to see.

And what the mods posted earlier still stands as a bullshit excuse that doesn't match what actually happened at all. If it did, if their reasoning was solid, Filledeplage would not have been banned.

Clusterfuck of the highest order.

Oh my gee I forgot like the most important part of this discussion! Thank you all for having me here and not looking at my sideeyed because I post elsewhere as well

You're right, I went back and checked. Let me say here and now that I absolutely agree with you, and am on your side on this particular issue. Filldepage was allowed to not only bring up "old grudges", but was allowed to lie about us publicly. It was Filledpage that constantly brought up "old grudges" in an attempt to bait you, but you were the one banned for supposedly doing the same thing?

Hypocrisy of the highest order.

OK I almost never comment on the inter-relations between boards and as most of you know, I do not go out of my way to curry favour with anyone. Even Guitarfool and I have been on very opposite sides before on an several issues on this board.

But, my God, given the sheer amount of jibes about his "lengthy posts," alone, he should have been rewarded for his patience if anything, and that's not even taking into account the amount of times he had to defend himself on a topic that had nothing to do with the thread.

While we are making confessions  :lol

I genuinely believe AGD should be allowed back, he's far too valuable

You guys never saw the worst of what he did , and considering that included threatening Phil Cohen and his family, that speaks volumes.  And yes I have proof

This question is not in the realm of inter-board squabbles, but is rather engaging on a topic about a Beach Boys historian. In what way do you consider him to be valuable? From someone who does academic research for a living, I genuinely don't understand why he would be considered a good historian and I felt that way even before he was discovered to be throwing around groundless claims.

Valuable to whom? It is a documented fact that he abused his status as a "historian" to spread lies and nonsense about Brian and Melinda Wilson and about people who still post here on this forum (I mean, the claim that Melinda Wilson was posting as Smile Brian is utterly hilarious for it's absurdity. I think SB and I are ranked near the top of how much time we spend on this forum - it's laughable to think that anyone would believe that Melinda Wilson would spend the last 10 years posting thousands of posts here). He tried to paint me as a liar regarding the issue and soon after the record showed that I was the one telling the truth. One major thing I am thankful for about this forum is that the moderators who work hard to run it realize that AGD should never be allowed back under any circumstance. Something I proposed (which actually got shot down here, and funny enough was adopted on the PS Forum) was the forum keeping a public record of all the bans that had taken place here - the people who were banned and why they were banned.

Every now and then someone will come along and request that certain members be let back, where if there was a place easily accessible to see all the horrible crap those banned members did to get banned perhaps people wouldn't be so quick to ask for these banned members to come back. Such a record could possibly have given the current and past moderators of the PS Forum a bit more knowledge about some of the posters on their own forum...and perhaps they would have made some better decisions regarding who they allow to post there...but given the latest move to ban Guitarfool over him replying to some off-topic comments I doubt that any amount of information could help the mods there make good decisions.

Wrong rab, I am Al Jardine....

Let me thrown in quickly my response was not a slam against you Shady just there’s way more to the story than many know and Doe’s got a better chance of winning the Kentucky Derby than ever showing back up here, and you can bet on that.

2 SB: Trashing Al ain't good thing to do.

Agreed, it was an ugly time...

Completely understand

Honestly I thought AGD was banned for a couple of unfortunate posts that I read, all this other stuff I was unaware of.

I have such respect for all of the BB's historians that have come and gone on this site, the work they do to me is personally invaluable and I have learned a lot from AGD and others but all of this sounds unfortunate and have no doubt the right course of action was taken

Rab, shake man.. thanks for the insight

Hey, sorry that I responded so harshly. Remembering those days gets my blood pressure up haha. I’m really glad you’ve been such an active member of this forum, and it’s great to see your positivity throughout many of the threads! No hard feelings meant from me :hug

Thanks so much though I didn't sense any harshness   ;D

And back at ya, happy to see everyone's still active and posting  :)

And with that , I’m currently listening to my daughter sing along with Passing By right now, a reminder of this wonderful music that has brought us all here

Billy that’s awesome! My fiancé and I just finished listening to the Friends album on vinyl and she loved it. This music brings us all together in the end.

The copy of Sunshine Tomorrow we have is actually hers although she “lets me borrow it ::)  “

After catching up on reading this since yesterday, several good points were posted about current and past issues as well as some good suggestions.

Ultimately what happened on the Pet Sounds Forum is the two new mods bungled a situation that even outside observers are seeing by simply reading how it actually played out. Dick/Kane and Watamushi were either afraid of upsetting certain favored posters there, or they had marching orders to follow from other sources, or they're simply not good at moderating a board that averages between 20-30 readers and hasn't grown beyond that in over two years. That may say it all.

If they're going to run that place based on lies and allowing lies to stand (and liars to do whatever the f*** they want...), they'll have no credibility. They're on the level of Stan and Rocky, or even more pathetic, on the level of original admin Dirk/drBeachBoy who ran the board from Doe's back pocket until he flipped out on the mods he chose as the original admin and got banned from his own board for not following the rules.

For anyone thinking "let it go, move on, etc" I'd like to do that. But not when lies were told about me personally, and about this board, and other issues surrounding all of this, and the two moderators made decisions and judgement calls based on lies (and perhaps listening to liars or being afraid of them?) . That is not right, and if it's not corrected at least those being lied about have a voice to correct and inform.

So there is that.

Rab - The idea of posting the reasons for bans is perhaps a good one. However, what prevents us from doing that is in some specific cases the privacy element and the ability for anonymity when reporting more sensitive or personal issues. The ability for people to report anonymously what they felt was bullying, harassment, and similar issues was something we began to take more seriously as more issues like that came to light. To publish details would possibly expose those reporting these things, and that was not advisable. So some of these bans have to remain anonymous.

Which, unfortunately also allows people with barely a thread of moral fiber and the penchant for lies and bullshit to spin their bans into whatever they want, including how a rogue moderator here was banning people he didn't like at the flick of a switch. Which, as proven yet again by Dick and Watamushi buying into these liars and joining the club, is simply not the case despite what people on the Pet Sounds Forum might say.

We have the facts and the history archived and available if anyone disputes these bans, and reasons, and anything else.

And yes, that was the case with a few of the "bigger names" now welcomed and active on the Pet Sounds Forum who continue to lie and distort the reasons why they were banned from this forum.

If the current mods and readership there want to believe them, go ahead - But you're believing lies and liars, if you're ok with that. And again, for the mods, if you buy into this bullshit, you're as credible as Rocky.

Guitarfool, you mentioned that drawback about my idea when I first brought it up and I completely forgot about it...thanks for the reminder. It's a shame that such a thing even has to be debated.

The good news is, the truth is out now...there shouldn't be any question of what went down and why. If it comes back up again, we have that. Otherwise, IMHO I do think at this point, the point is made and so clear that Stevie Wonder could see it.

So with that in mind...I'm going to turn on Sunshine Tomorrow at my desk at a low volume and annoy my co-workers :)

Yeah, but nothing's been done. Just like in the past. Thanks to spineless or incompetent moderators on PS Forum who openly lied and distorted to suit the needs of that place, this board is dragged through the mud, lies are allowed to stand, and it's swept under the carpet? No apologies, no comments about fixing things moving forward, taking future action to avoid this bullshit again...nothing.

Doesn't fly where I'm concerned. Sorry. If people are still posting lies and they're being believed, we just drop it and sing Kum-Bye-A together like nothing happened? Keep turning the other cheek and get cold-cocked until we have a jaw broken in multiple places? Nope. Not happenin'.

As far as the new sets of music, yeah they're great, terrific listening - Kudos especially to Mark and Alan. But I'm proud to say I didn't pay a dime for them and got them for free online. My principle is, if certain names are attached and others left off of any project related to the Beach Boys, I don't give them a dime or a penny of my money. Best money I never spent.

Nah, was referring to the physical WH disc released last year. Out of curiousity, what was left off this year's release?

Billy, I hope I'm not throwing this thread off, but I just saw your post. When I met Brian in '69, he asked me, "what's your favorite album, I mean besides 'Pet Sound'." That final part was sweet and a little sad at the same time. When I replied "Friends," I think his response was the most excited I'd ever seen him, "Yes, me too, yes!" "Wild Honey" and "Friends" were both so brilliant as Brian went full-on into other genres and immediately mastered them. The brilliance is astoundng.

Guitarfool, to be fair, like you say, their readership and average poster figures are pretty low, and they'll stay low given the type of posting that goes on there (and the type of moderation we're seeing). So if 20 people are sitting in an echo-chamber/daycare-center disguised as a Beach Boys forum, I do think at this point: more power to em.
This board will continue to thrive, and places that allow shady moderation and a user base of liars, harassers, and gossipers will inevitably crumble apart under the weight of their own depravity and stupidity.

I will grant you that the certain name on these latest releases is really sad. I love the music and am ecstatic to hear these tracks, but when I see the name of someone who spread tabloid style garbage in the fan community on these releases, it makes the releases seem a bit dirty, for lack of a better way to word it.

This story makes me so happy! Friends is my second favorite, and I consider it to be a part of Brian's select albums that deal with his life story: Pet Sounds, Friends, Love You, and No Pier Pressure. Each of those albums has some type of charm and eloquence that is pure Brian Wilson.

Rab - you nailed it. I hadn't through about it, but those albums really work.

What was eye opening to me (or rather, ear opening....) was hearing all of these little details that were buried previously.  These "lo-fi" albums were just as "heavily produced' as previous recordings, just in different genres!

Ohhhhh.....never even noticed

GF - I haven't commented much about this part of the thread, since I've never visited PS forum, nor will I. I don't have the stomach to deal with any of those people anymore.  What I can say is I truly appreciate your insistence on correcting lies wherever you see them. That's really admirable. Selfishly, some of the lies were probably more than once, about me, so that's appreciated too. So, thanks again.

That's what really blew my mind about Wild Honey - that album sounded so muddy to me for many years but when that stereo version came out it was like going from a 5" black and white tv to a 100" vivid color HDTV. Brian is firing on so many creative cylinders at this point, and sometimes it was buried in a mono mix or some mix that didn't show all the working parts to the song.

I really wish that Friends would get a sonic remix like the Sgt. Pepper remix we got earlier this year.

I second this. While I don't think this topic should be dwelled upon constantly (edit: not saying that anyone is dwelling on it constantly, didn't mean to imply this), I also think that the events of the past should not be forgotten. Craig went to the PS Forum and acted like the civil adult he is and he ended up getting banned for no logical reason whatsoever. He comes out the bigger person in all of this. He has put up with a lot of nonsense for years and yet he is still here helping run a very successful forum about our favorite band. It really is commendable. And to the children lurking from the PS Forum: this isn't ass-kissing, just sharing some courtesy to a guy who has put up with too much of your bullshit for the past few years.

^
I feel you. I for a brief moment used to browse PSF and it's not the majority of the members there but a small handful of people who are the issue (and we've discussed them ad nauseum)...but those handful really irk me.  Hypocrisy and lies do not sit well with me.

Would like to take this opportunity to shill the Beach Boys Discord server, where approximately none of this inter-board drama has happened and it continues to not happen. And Alan and Mark are joining us in the near future for a Q&A. Lovely stuff.

Coincidentally the server owner is our local Dick Rising, who - as I'm sure everyone there can vouch for - does a perfectly fine job. Word.

It’s a crazy world we live in today.  Let’s hope love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control prevail in these crazy times. Happy holidays to everyone.

^ Seconded!

Agreed!

Appalling.

When the tracks are on the Beach Boys official YouTube channel, how is it appalling to listen there?

What's appalling is to see a person who exhibited bad behavior, in some cases the words and comments bordering on slanderous and extending from trashing other fans to gossiping about and slandering band members and families, getting acknowledged. If someone insults, lies about, or in any other way wrongs people I consider friends, they're off the radar. And I don't support their future endeavors where their name is attached.

Sorry if that's offensive, but maybe a lot of people still don't know what went on and how dirty it got. Maybe I'm old fashioned but words matter and actions have consequences. In this case, that credit put a stain on an otherwise terrific project.

After what happened with Dick's bungling the moderating on the PS Forum and helping expose what's going on over there with favored posters who are above the rules and lies allowed to stand unchecked, no thanks. In fact I thought you were joking when I read this after what happened in the past 48 hours.

Maybe Mr. Boyd paid attention to the way you phrased it "got them for free", as in downloaded in illegal file-sharing site.

You're absolutely right rab, if by acting "like the civil adult he is and he ended up getting banned for no logical reason whatsoever," you meant going over there for seemingly the sole purpose of stirring the pot and only using his account to constantly argue with people he knows do not like him, and by "comes out the bigger person in all of this," you meant deciding to attack two posters by name on another board and creating an environment where they are seemingly not welcomed (which, by my understanding, is against the rules). If that's what you meant by those two statements, then you're 100% right!

That's cool, the invite isn't extended to everyone.

Well if that's the case, that's not accurate. I don't do that. I wouldn't do that, and I do not use illegal file sharing sites at all. In this case the albums were on the ***official*** Beach Boys YouTube channel. Available to listen - for free. And I listened. If that's appalling, then take it up with the people running the YouTube channel. If it's a misunderstanding to where the thought was I was using illegal file shares, I was not.

What I stand behind is what I said about acknowledging bad behavior. That, to me, is appalling. But that's my hang-up and mine alone.

Good, then stop shilling for it here in a topic where it has nothing to do with anything. Dick screwed up - If the dishonesty and favoritism shown by his moderating on the PS Forum extends over to "Discord", you'll be averaging 20 readers just like the forum he moderates.

Oh, and this is off-topic, so maybe take any further shilling or whatever you're doing to the "Discord" thread where it's on-topic. Here: http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,25934.0.html (http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,25934.0.html)

 

Completely agree 100%, and I don't care who I piss off by saying that. I'm all for getting rid of bullies and liars, but not paying or supporting something just because a certain person is involved is downright insulting. Having a board member say it is one thing, but that it's a moderator, somebody who represents an online community....there are no words for it. Craig has let his hatred for Doe and PSF get in the way of basic logic, and common decency. I will walk away from this site for good over this if I have to.

We usually have more activity than both forums together actually, but no problem. Sorry for bringing it up in the wrong topic.

Discord is a funny word but it is a site that exists and isn't made up, so the quotation marks are a lil unnecessary.

Edit: Just to add to this, I think it's perfectly on-topic to bring up in the context of someone I consider a friend being unjustly badmouthed (and compared to Rocky Pamplin?? oh, you) again and again over several pages of a thread. I would've thought the tiny incredibly subtle connection between exactly what's happening here now and the reason for what happened in the first place would've maybe been self explanatory but...no, I'll stop myself there.

The part in bold, Lovester - Total bullshit. But don't let the facts stop you. You're in good company, consider staying there if you're going to come here and make stuff up to fit your own bullshit.

See how the liars work? Thanks for proving that, Lovester.  

It's on YouTube. If I or others choose to listen there, no matter what the reason, what's the problem?

Hey Craig, thanks for the reply! Just wanted to play a little game: find 5 posts of yours on the board that aren't arguing with another poster. Also, you didn't choose to respond to my second point, does that mean that you admit that your persistent attacks are against the rules and constitute harassment?

The problem is being proud for not having paid for something. Hell, the whole 6 cd box set of The Beatles White Album sessions are on YouTube, but I still intend to buy it legally. It'll set me back quite a bit, but well worth it.

Won't work. Don't try it.

Hey Craig, I'm a little confused as to the topic of the thread then, because according to your posts the topic should be "Let's all talk about the moderation on another forum that we claim we don't care about." Telling, since the thread actually started as a celebration.

Make stuff up? He's 100% right. There are countless examples of you confronting and attacking other members on that board, and that's something that the facts support.

PSF is a crummy monument to a fat British fanboy’s ego and anti social behavior. I am pissed off that AGD is still looking for my personal information after four years. Wheeennn you get comps from that interested party for shows is far worse in the freeloading department than Craig giving the band money through viewership on YouTube.

6 CD box, yes - Physical product. What if people said they prefer having a physical product, as in CD or vinyl like the Beatles set or earlier BB's sets, and just don't do digital downloads? And those who might listen on YouTube where the tracks are posted on the official Beach Boys channel if there there is no physical product?

I've already said, I will not financially support product with certain names attached because they wronged my friends in some bad ways and I don't believe in acknowledging bad behavior. If that's appalling, then so be it - But that's how strongly I feel about the appalling behavior directed at people I know. That's my hang-up. I already said that.

Bullshit. Produce the countless examples of these attacks and confrontations that the facts support, and show the context of whatever you're claiming too.

Sorry to bother you, but I just wanted to confirm that by not responding to my point twice you're admitting that as a moderator you are openly breaking a rule and harassing two members of your board?

Edit: Also, if you won't respond, I would like to get another moderators opinion on whether or not GF's posts constitute harassment and therefore break the rules. Billy, your thoughts?

Wait, wait wait...it is available for free on the OFFICIAL BEACH BOYS CHANNEL. Nothing wrong with listening to it there. Not the same thing as going to Limewire, or Kazaa, or whatever free sites used to exist before. I wouldn't know, I always pay for physical product in print and have done so for years. 

That's physical product. Not the same.  This is something available for free OFFICIALLY. Must throw that out there and emphasize.  I already bought it and then found out it was free LEGALLY AND OFFICIALLY

GF is tame compared to Alan Smith and others personally threatening me for merely posting without argument on the PSF.

It's available on Spotify, but I was under the impression that the group and whoever their representatives are didn't have much of a say in it. It's still available to buy legally.

If I won't respond to you? You make claims about what I did, I ask you to produce the proof of those claims from that board in context, and you change the subject.  

Seriously, this reminds me of someone who posted under a different name in the past...Pinder? Emily? Bean Bag?

Right, but it is available on YouTube and Spotify, and if people for whatever reasons they have are choosing to hear the music on those official and legal platforms, what's the problem? I can see disagreeing with my reasoning, but I explained that and if it's appalling, so be it.

But listening on YouTube and Spotify are not to be shamed, I hope, if people are choosing to do so. The issue then becomes allowing those outlets to feature the tracks, not people who listen.

And some people simply do not buy digital downloads, and prefer hard-copy product especially on archival or vault material.

GF, I am not talking about that right now. The point I keep making and that you refuse to acknowledge is that you, as a moderator, were seemingly breaking a rule and going off topic to attack two members of your own board by name. And, because of your position of your board, it seems there will be no consequences for this (wow, pot calling the kettle black). Either mod care to respond or tell me that I am wrong, instead of avoiding the question?

I get what you're saying, and I'm not trying to shame people for using YouTube or any other legal online way of listening. What initially pissed me off and I found offensive was your saying you were proud to do it that way, and simply because one name is listed in the credits.

This thread started so promising (kinda like the BBs in 1961) before jealousy ruined things... :bw

It is becoming so incredibly difficult to get the corporate support that enables these highly specialized niche oriented projects to happen at all. Proudly stating that you won't pay a dime for a project because I acknowledged AGD for historical research in the special thanks isn't just a matter of availing yourself of the YouTube option. It feels more like a sort of boycott.  And this time it hurts a little, because (as you may have noticed), there is no promotion for this year's stack of tracks. We're hoping and praying that people who appreciate the hard work that goes into these projects will support that work by buying copies/downloads and proving to Universal Music that there is a market for this kind of Beach Boys archival collection.

The attention and feedback you all have given over the years has been inspiring. As for the stuff between the message boards and whatever it is we stepped in that made you decide to not actually purchase our latest work.... I don't know what to say to that. I hope you'll change your mind, because we need all the help we can get out here.

In the wise words of GF, go and read the thread :)

There was one poster who consistently went off topic and used this thread to attack two individuals, before any of this happened. Funnily enough, he seemed to be arguing with himself! :lol

Your original post, the original point in your post which I asked about...Can you produce proof and context of what you said and is highlighted in bold? I asked, you never replied, now you want me to answer how you want me to answer...Seriously, this act won't work and it's obvious why you and "BummerInParadise" showed up. So go back to the PS Forum and have fun with your friends, it's done here.

guitarfool, you do realize that unless you're using an ad-blocker, that streams from YouTube and Spotify are monetized by ads, right? Ads that go right into the coffers of the very people who you claim you wish not to support. Fractions of pennies at a time yes, but nonetheless it is financially reimbursing Capitol/UMe/Brother (as well as the streaming sites).

The issue here is that Alan saw what you had posted, and was suitably upset at the very least. I don't know about you, but if I'd put blood, sweat and tears into a product only to hear, regardless of the context, that someone immediately after congratulating me on it boasted that they had proudly not spent a dime on it, I'd be incredibly upset and disappointed at the bare minimum.

So I am a bad guy for streaming an online only release. I think the BRI is about to lose a fan for good.... :-\

GF, your silence is providing all the answers I need. Let this be a lesson to everyone of the smileysmile board: You are allowed to openly break rules and harass members of the board, as long as you are a moderator! Unless Billy wants to jump in and address this, then I don't think there is anything else to say here. Also, Craig, I actually requested you find 5 posts of yours that weren't arguing and you refused to, but nice attempt to try and pin this on me!

And stop playing dumb. I can't prove that you know in your mind that certain people over there dislike you, I inferred it. And I think anyone looking at your post history can see a large percentage of your posts are arguments. Pretty simple, I don't need to provide evidence like this is a court room.

Ugh that’s not what happened... You never post here and came back to troll GF.

I feel you. I don't regret my initial purchase, despite it being free legally, because I consider it more like I don't want to say donation, necessarily, but more as a thank you than anything. That, and I look forward to next year's set. Also, because Jay & I made diddly on the last F2S release despite heavy streams, so it hits a bit close to home. I do wish they weren't on YouTube concurrently because to the average consumer it does feel like a bit of a gyp.


As for the other posts...reading through the thread right now.

Thank you Billy, I would just like clarification.

I appreciate the hard work, Alan, both you and Mark have been a Godsend to the fans and your persistence in getting this material out and love for the material itself...we're blessed to have you where you are, doing what you do! I'd never, ever suggest anything less.

I understand where it would hurt, but I would ask in return that you also understand how bad things were on a personal level between Doe and people I call my friends (and me, too), to where they were being lied about and trashed by a guy using his status as a "historian" to behave that way. And that hurt them, and me too to see what was going on behind the shroud of "insider" Beach Boys circles. There are lines one simply does not cross on basic human decency levels, and in some of these cases, lines were crossed which to this day there have been no apologies or even admissions that things should not have been said or done.

So I'll say again, I'm not advocating a boycott, I'm not saying don't buy this, but when I saw that credit it did put a dark cloud over it *for me* personally. I would think if the credit was for research, Ian Rusten among a few others would have deserved a credit too considering the sheer volume of research he's added through the years, especially to the site hosted by Doe.

But again, that's just me. If my wording on the "free" point was confusing, as I think it was, I'm sorry for that. If it felt like I was calling for a boycott, I absolutely was not. But just the same, seeing those credits did put a damper on the whole thing for me, and I had to be honest when I said that earlier, but perhaps in not the right choice of words. I want as many people as possible to hear this amazing music, I'd never suggest otherwise. But for me, the credits honestly did have an effect on my view of it and I wish that were not the case - My own hang-up.

Alan, right after reading this post of yours, I went and purchased both MP3 albums on Amazon. I had previously been streaming them on Spotify, and I did plan to purchase them, but I was holding out hope for an eventual physical release.

But I understand the state of the industry being what it is, and I greatly appreciate you being candid about the situation. Very much so. It's really ridiculous to me that there has been no proper "official" promo for this set!!  But I've done my part in telling a bunch of friends about it who are not on this board. Everybody is excited. I will certainly drive home the situation to them, if it wasn't obvious enough from the state of the industry.

Thanks again a thousand times over for your tireless work. No words. This music brings me soooo very much joy, particularly stuff from this era.  At this point I really do think that everybody on this board should follow suit and purchase the MP3 albums.  Tonight!  Regardless of how you typically consume music. Spotify or no Spotify. YouTube or no YouTube. Being personally upset at one or more of the people involved or not. It's worth it for the greater good of future releases. Do it!

The Lovester, why do you care? It's not between you & guitarfool. Why defend people you don't know anyway? Besides, he got banned at PS, shouldn't you be happy then? Since you say people dislike him, I take it you too. What's the questioning then for? It doesn't make sense. & as SB said, you never posted before, yet suddenly chime in to, what, ask questions to the banned poster?

Yes you do. You came on here and made claims of things I did or said, and stated my reason for going over there, so prove them. If you can't, then you're just here to troll. Produce the proof and context of this claim: you meant going over there for seemingly the sole purpose of stirring the pot and only using his account to constantly argue with people he knows do not like him

In the past year you have posted here 3 times. ***Three***. Now you're all over this issue posting like mad trying to make claims and provoke some answer you want me to give...Just quit while you're ahead and go back to the PS Forum or Discord or wherever else you've been hanging out.

Three posts in a year and all of a sudden you're so concerned about me and this board? Give it a rest.

GF, I lurk on this forum. My post count does not give me any less of a right to raise an issue with moderation as someone with more posts. That’s called favoritism, and isn’t it what you’ve been harassing Dick and Wata about? Hmm, ironic. Secondly, I have better things to do than read through all your novellas over there, therefore I will let anyone reading this exchange who is uninformed go over there and seep through your post history. They can make decisions for themselves, it seems like every single person on that board who witnessed it first hand knew what you were up to. Lastly, I would just like you to respond to my point that I have been saying all along while you keep deflecting to another question: did you break a rule by harassing two members of your board, and why are there no consequences? It just seems a little hypocritical to me, that’s all, and I would really appreciate a straight answer.

Where was the harrasment? Honest question because I am trying to get up to speed. Just made it home and reading the last few pages is giving me a hell of a headache

Produce the proof and context of this claim: you meant going over there for seemingly the sole purpose of stirring the pot and only using his account to constantly argue with people he knows do not like him

Three posts in a year, and now you're so concerned about this board? Please, just be honest on who you are and what you're doing, and why you're here. If you make claims about things I said or my motivation for joining another forum, show me proof to back up your claims. Otherwise, you're here to troll. That's it.

“Yes, again I stand by what I said about Watamushi and his activity here, but he was completely full of sh*t in regards to my wanting to come there strictly to cause problems, and my confrontational posts.”
“Watamushi, if that's the kind of crap you'll use to moderate over there, I hope the reasons why you're giving Filledeplage and Manning free passes are worth it. Because your credibility just went down considerably.”
“Wondering who the mods think she is, unless there is another reason why they never take any action if she's involved or why it feels she can break any rules she chooses and gets a free pass.”
“Yes, of course my posts were pulled out of context and distorted to fit what Watamushi and Dick/Kane needed it to fit. That's how they justified their bullshit actions and bullshit in general, but it obviously isn't true as even observers reading through it are noticing.

So Watamushi and Dick, in your new capacity as the two mods running the place, are you happy that your first action is based on bullshit that outside observers are noticing and calling out as bullshit? Not to mention your complete avoidance of those like Filledeplage and Manning who publicly took a sh*t on your orders and posts and did what they wanted, and got away with it.”
“They could also answer why Watamushi posted comments of mine to justify a ban, comments taken out of context  that someone who isn't even a member there read, analyzed the context perfectly,  and called out as the bullshit it is? ”

“What do you call ignoring certain members' breaking of the board rules and constant shitting on your actions as a mod while calling out and scapegoating others if not playing favorites? For f**k's sake, it's not like no one is noticing this hypocrisy”

“So guys, Dick and Watmushi, if you're going to publicly try to pin this on me and assign things to me that did not happen, your credibility exists somewhere on the level of Rocky Pamplin, the topic of the thread where all this went down. Enjoy that with the 10 or so posters who get coddled and given free reign to disrespect you as moderators regularly.”


“When it reaches a point where the most recent moderators over there have to invent reasons to post why someone was banned, and make sh*t up based on their needs versus what actually played out (and can be readily seen in public posts) it's all but a lost cause.”

“Nice job guys, or guy in this case since it seems Watamushi was alone in putting the ban on Filledeplage and perhaps Dick found the whole thing too "draining" and didn't agree with banning a favored member.”

“Clusterfuck of the highest order.“

“Dick/Kane and Watamushi were either afraid of upsetting certain favored posters there, or they had marching orders to follow from other sources, or they're simply not good at moderating a board that averages between 20-30 readers and hasn't grown beyond that in over two years. That may say it all.

If they're going to run that place based on lies and allowing lies to stand (and liars to do whatever the f*** they want...), they'll have no credibility. They're on the level of Stan and Rocky, or even more pathetic, on the level of original admin Dirk/drBeachBoy who ran the board from Doe's back pocket until he flipped out on the mods he chose as the original admin and got banned from his own board for not following the rules.”


This wasn’t even all of it.

Yep, that's what I said here. I stand by every word because the PS Forum mods got it wrong, and proceeded to misrepresent what happened publicly. I replied in kind to what was written, said and done to try to misrepresent me and what actually happened, and neither Dick nor Watamushi has answered for it.

Now where's the proof of the claims you made? Or are you just doing this as an alias account to defend what was a complete bullshit situation all around?

Ok I understand where you’re coming from, but also understand that he was responding to actions taken in an official capacity as mods that he can’t respond to over there due to his ban

Adding it up:

"The Lovester" makes claims about my motivations for joining and how I posted on another forum, so I ask for proof..."The Lovester" produces nothing.

"The Lovester" posts on this board *3* (count 'em) times in the past year, then all of a sudden comes alive tonight to comment and challenge in a situation where he or she is not even involved directly, in fact "The Lovester" is not directly involved at all in any of this...unless it's an alias for someone who was involved.

"The Lovester" doesn't post more than three times in a year, yet takes the time to excise all the comments from me he wants to complain about...and again, I stand by each and every word of them considering what transpired. I'm getting "Clusterfuck of the highest order" printed onto T-shirts and coffee mugs if anyone is interested in a last-minute Christmas stocking-stuffer.

I'd ask why is someone like "The Lovester" so concerned about issues that "The Lovester" had nothing to do with, unless it's a put-up job or an alias? It's none of your business.

Conclusion:
"The Lovester" is a fraud, or someone who doesn't have the guts to defend themselves using their real name or speaking as themselves, so they pull this stunt instead.

It failed.

Next.

(PS - contact me for info on the "clusterfuck..." shirts and mugs, I'll ship them so they arrive Monday)

Guitarfool gets banned for responding to being slammed. Lovester slams Guitarfool and he’s still here.

Speaks volumes.

*drops mic*

100% agreed. I considered it a donation more than anything. I want future releases!

Seems like you are trying to mod their forum from here GF. Comes across as bullying tbh. Comparing the numbers on each board is a bit silly. They are about the same I'd imagine. Visitors online thing with forums is not a reliable metric as it's full of various bot traffic skewing the numbers.

Thank you very much for all of your dedication and hard work, Alan.  I'll admit I hadn't got around to purchasing this set yet but if the above is true then I have no excuses.  Consider it sold.


I understand where you're coming from, gf, but I'm a bit bemused that this is the moral line in the sand that you're drawing when we're talking about a collection that contains songs written by three different murderers.

I’m assuming you’re Dick Rising from the PS Forum? Apologies if I’m wrong about that. A mod or admin there made it impossible for guests to view the posting history of members there for some reason. So if what you say is even true then it is very hard to find the proof of this. Secondly, the only two cited examples for Guitarfool’s ban were Guitarfool defending himself from false and off-topic accusations started by people who are now temporarily banned for aiming the off-topic accusations and mean-spirited posts at Craig in the first place (which a mod there admits was the cause of all the drama in that thread). Thirdly, I lurked there and saw plenty of Craig’s posts that were very informative and non-disruptive. The times he was “disruptive” were when he was defending himself against people bringing up grudges against him (which the mods there admit was a problem).

You guys pride yourselves on how the PS Forum isn’t a place for negativity. Yet your very own badge “Super Moderator” is a jab straight at Guitarfool because of his status on the Brian Wilson forum...The first few moderators on the PS forum were mocking Guitarfool’s title and adopted it as their own as a joke back when the forum was starting. So when you guys try to take the moral high ground it doesn’t really come across as sincere for very obvious reasons.

More to that point, when you yourself have a jab aimed at Guitarfool stickied on every post you make and you’re not even aware of that, it makes me wonder how aware of other things relating to the problems of the forum you are. I don’t say that to offend, I just mean that this problem is complex enough to where what is obvious to others is hidden from some people who are relatively new to these problems.

Edit: just realized you’re not Dick Rising from the PS Forum. But my point still stands to DR and Watamushi, and frankly to anyone who thinks that the PS Forum is some mecca of morality.
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Alan, I want to thank you for your decades of phenomenal and hard work. This soul has gotten so much joy and happiness listening to the last 20+ years of incredible releases. In defense of Guitarfool, I want to say that when someone threatens one’s family, when they try to find the general location of a poster here, when they spread lies about family of the person whose music you yourself work on, they cross a line. And I will admit, if I didn’t know better Guitarfool made it sound like he was pirating the music...but in this day and age, it is somewhat clear that you can listen to just about anything on YouTube for “free”. While he himself is not paying for it, he is still making this release money because YouTube and Spotify still send money to the record company each time a song from this release is played. Thanks again for all your hard and incredible work.

If I didn’t know any better, I could swear that when Craig initially joined PSF that people banned from here made a conscious decision to bait and troll him, breaking that board’s own rules.

http://petsoundsforum.com/thread/2388/hello-500th-member-join

But what do I know?

Thanks for posting this. Craig is permanently banned and those who constantly fired insults and grudges his way from day one get slaps on the wrist. For a forum that prides itself on supposedly not tolerating negative behavior, the evidence of that is severely lacking.

And don’t forget, when GF joined PSF, Billy posted here about that and asked us to lay off on the PSF bashing, which, I think we did. Which is why I found the PSF posters’ accusations about our behavior confusing.  Until I guessed that they are baiting GF.

AGD and flunkies need to leave us the f*** alone. Thread was fine until they banned GF and tried to embarrass us last night.

Well stated on all points

If you have any problems getting support for future releases can you guys please start a go fund me or something like that

You will have no problem raising the funds

^ I sure as hell will contribute

This is the kinda stuff that made Brian think it was a good idea to hole up in his bedroom...  :smokin

GF, I think you should just tone down a few of the combative traits that emerge from what I've earlier called "the PTSD of dealing with AGD." Anything said that would potentially jeopardize a relationship with Alan Boyd should be re-considered before posting, really!

Other than that issue, however, you're to be commended for going into the lion's den and dealing with some folks who quickly turn proto-demonic as a result of the "bad vibrations" they've baked into their psyches.

May I suggest that one thing all SS members could do to help impact future releases--even if we might think it won't make any difference--is to write/email Capitol and urge them to create physical releases for products such as the 1968 CE sets? If everyone at both boards, and all of the other chat sites, etc., would do that, they just might change their minds--and then we'll have world peace!  :3d

And I have been listening to the Phil Spector Christmas album constantly for the past weeks, Jim Gordon is one of my top 3 favorite drummers and I love everything he played on, and the list of similar scenarios goes on and on. There is a separation between enjoying art and artists who created it and the activities they engaged in separate from the art itself.

In this case there were *personal* issues at play in my opinions and decisions, the subjects involved are in no way artists who create art from afar, and I'll address the consequences and reaction further. But in these cases these were people I know who were affected negatively, people I know and love from afar who got trashed and dragged through the mud of gossip, innuendo, and lies in the name of "insider" information, and ultimately and selfishly I just don't like being lied about, and I have no time for liars. I surely don't like to see the people behind all that garbage acknowledged after all that went down, but that's me. And I understand now that not everyone knows what happened - how could they - and are more than likely believing the same lies that have been spread and repeated enough for some to believe them.

I also understand how my choice of words had consequences, and I will address that in a later comment.

As someone who has been directly affected by the person mentioned in question I definitely understand; if anyone should be salty it’s me. That said it’d be different if that person actually played on the music. That’s just my take, though. It didn’t affect me purchasing any of the SMiLE music even though Van Dyke Parks wrote it and he’s insulted me previously.

As for the rest, I’ve made my feelings known many times. I don’t know if the schism in the fan community can ever truly be repaired. It’s hard when the same characters keep on with the same old same old and always point fingers at others rather than take a cold hard look in the mirror. It’s even harder when there’s agendas in play. But the truly difficult aspect is when it’s a small handful of people making everyone else look bad

This all sucks.

I have tried to be on good terms with everyone in the fan community, and I still want to do that. As for Alan's point -- for goodness' sake, did no one notice the cover art for this year's releases reused the art template from last years'? Not a single press release or tiny bit of promotion.

We're skating on thin ice.

The music is worth talking about and fighting for. The rest of this is hot nonsense. We've already lost Desper. God only knows what else we could lose.

Here's some advice from an aging father who should be doing more constructive things. Delete this thread, don't play with people who don't want to play with you, and move on.

My two cents: there's a PM function and both are users over here. There's no need to repeatedly slander them in public for just trying to make what they felt was the correct decision. Dick's told me he feels the situation could've been handled better, because others in the wrong also should've been dealt with at the same time, but I think it was the right call in the long term considering the nauseating history of bickering (between GF and...everyone else? doesn't that suggest something?) and exactly what's currently happening here on this thread. This is an incredibly weak and disappointing position to see the other mods take, and that's coming from someone who joined both forums at around the same time long after the original schism happened. And I have been made aware (in detail) of exactly how ugly it got. Doesn't change my opinion at all. I don't get involved in the forum squabbles, and I post at both places, but the mess of this thread and downright nastiness prompted me to jump in and say something for the first time.

And no, Dick Rising is not secretly The Lovester for anyone believing that for some reason.

The smartest thing anyone's said yet.

To wjcrerar... My history of bickering with everyone else? Look, you came here with your mind made up that I'm the asshole and everything Dick, Watamushi, Filledeplage, and the others said is true.

But it's not. And if you either cannot see or don't want to accept what others who read through the whole episode have seen and posted about it, and how the impression being given by the mods and others is false, then consider checking out what they're saying rather than trying to take some swings at me for your friends. I knew what you were doing when you posted a plug for Discord and said how terrific of a job Dick is doing, then immediately two posters who haven't been active in a year show up out of nowhere and start hammering away too.

And all of it happened as Dick Rising seemed to be parked here in this thread last night, reading and watching it all unfold, at least every time I got notice there was a new post. Hey, the PM thing works both ways. I was accused of and held responsible for things others did that I did not do, and not a single word has been said by those two mods who did it, other than a ridiculous backpedaling and after-the-fact ban of Filledeplage who started all this sh*t in the first place...only after people here were calling out the bullshit decisions.

The burden isn't on me. How about Dick and Watamushi stand up and take responsibility for fucking this up and showing favorites when they said they would not.

And if this doesn't involve you  apart from being an observer who came here to plug Dick's Discord server and tell us how great of a job he does (and take some shots at me in the process)...why did you come here to further fan the flames? Leave that to the likes of "The Lovester" and the others.

Yes, I already stated in the very post that I suggested DR was possibly the Lovester that I was wrong about that. And I didn't say he was "secretly" the loverster, I thought he had changed his name from Kane to that at some point, apologies for the confusion and no offense was meant towards DR. But my point definitely still stands toward him and the other mod there.

Second point, Dick Rising saying that Filledeplague needing to be banned the same time as the other two is completely beside the point. People were goading Guitarfool on from DAY ONE that he was there. Why weren't they banned then for EXACTLY what they were banned for a few days ago? It's the same charge, but yet it took the mods months to do anything about it. And by that point people had lobbed countless insults and attacks at Craig on that forum. It's just a complete breakdown of any consistent modding if you ask me.
____

As for the issue of the boxset: someone's name being on the credits shouldn't stop us from supporting such a great set. But again, there's a person on those credits that tried to make me look like a liar when I was not one. Who made some crass gossip comments regarding Brian and Melinda's adopted children. Who mocked a child of a fellow Beach Boys fan/writer. If people are cool with this behavior then I'm kinda at a loss for how much disgusting crap people are willing to look past. So though this person's name is on some credits, I still support the set, but NO ONE should be surprised at any backlash when such a person is on the credits. Seriously, those that put together these boxes may want to do some background on the people that "help" with these releases.

And Wirestone, you bring years and years of wonderful knowledge and insight to this forum, even after writing all the above perhaps it is best this thread be deep-sixed and we move on from the issue. Hope all is well on your end.

The thread will not be deleted. Not as long as the lies are being cheered on and supported, not as long as the mods who got it wrong refuse to step up and either admit it or fix it (for real), and not as long as people want to post here. Maybe if someone starts posting lies and false claims about *you*, you'd see it differently.

That's it in a nutshell, as on-point as your other observations have been.

If people refuse to see the validity and truth in all of this, shame on them. For real.

Wjcarar...That's the truth, right there, whether you can deal with it or not.

I don't believe in deleting threads unless there are extreme circumstances.

Was the bolded part directed at me?

Alright guitarfool, there's a lot to unpack here. Do I (mostly) agree with Dick and Mushi? Yes, because they're good people who were trying to keep the peace by getting rid of someone who seemed to consistently derail threads into arguments whenever they posted. Filledeplage? No, because I think her and that whole cohort of people also responsible for starting the bickering and bringing up old grudges should've also been banned from the offshoot. But I'm not a mod, and that's not my decision. I'm glad it has been dealt with now and I think the level of vitriol against the mods for taking too long to get a difficult decision right is completely unnecessary. It's banning actual grown adults for arguing on a message forum about the Beach Boys, for god's sake.

No, I did not come here with my mind already made up that you were the asshole, thank you very much. I formed my own opinion from observing comments on both boards over a long period of time, including watching the meltdown that happened when you first joined, and from watching all of this unfold I don't think you were the sole cause of the problem. But you were a very significant part of it. The others who instigated those fights were equally in the wrong but after everything I've seen I think it's just dishonest to claim you had no part whatsoever in fuelling that fire. The pettiness of, again, GROWN ADULTS ON FORUMS ABOUT THE BEACH BOYS squabbling over whatever personal issues you've had makes both here and PSF a toxic environment every time it happens, which is a sentiment alluded to several times on this thread and one that I don't think anyone would disagree with. Nor do I blame anyone for not wanting the sites they run to be the battlegrounds for this rubbish. Or for them finding it challenging to find a solution to that problem when many of the people involved have been active in the fan circle significantly longer than they have (reply 'tough sh*t' if you want, but have some empathy, yeah? again, Beach Boys forum).

And yes, jumping in the thread like I did yesterday was unnecessary, so I apologise for that. But in the same way you ask what it would be like if I were in your shoes and defend comparing Dick Rising and Watamushi to ROCKY PAMPLIN (you have to laugh so you don't cry), don't you think it's a little understandable that I'd want to bite back and defend people who I like and respect? For transparency, I'm one of three admins on the Discord (although Dick is the original server owner), and yes, I think we do a perfectly competent job. Case in point, nothing of this (I'm not even sure what word you could use other than this) sort has happened. You can understand why that'd sting a little and that would be something I'd choose to bring up when annoyed, right?

I'm appealing to you as a human being who I think is redeemable and hasn't fully gone off the deep end (despite the Boydening). You clearly have excellent musical knowledge and I've enjoyed reading a lot of the things you've written. Just...do some critical reflection. Think about how all this comes off.

If you disagree, that's fair. We'll leave it at that. I didn't want to get dragged into this but I felt it was worth defending my friends. That's all I have to say.

It was broadly directed at the mods for letting the comments against Dick and Watamushi slide. You may disagree, I just don't think it's right.

I don’t think this thread should be deleted...erasing history or acting like it didn’t exist just leads to it being repeated, or something like that. I do think we’ve gone in back and forth enough and nothing is going to change. The hypocrisy will continue and no amount of defending ourselves will change that.  This constant lying and nonsense will continue until both boards are dead. Thanks guys. Careful what you wish for.

“People were goading Guitarfool on from DAY ONE that he was there. Why weren't they banned then for EXACTLY what they were banned for a few days ago?”

Not even 24 hours. The goading and baiting happened within the day.


Maybe it was naive to expect PSF to be at least civil. I still feel the banned SS-ers were deliberately baiting GF in hopes of either driving him away or getting him banned. The slaps on the wrist they received, I’m sure, was a price they didn’t mind paying.  It reeks of extreme pettiness and should not be tolerated.

Not going to comment on the politics of the issue but the lesson seems to be if you want to post on another board, rightly or wrongly, use another name. Sad but true.

Considering it was stated as “other mods” and I’m the only one besides Craig, I wouldn’t call it “broadly directed “. So in the same spirit of the insult  directed at me, I will ensure this reply will not be  incredibly weak. What WAS incredibly weak of me was  letting sh*t get to this point  which wouldn’t have happened had I seen Doe for what he was. What  was incredibly weak was me continuously trying to keep the peace to the point where my wording was used in a mocking manner in a troll account. What’s NOT incredibly weak is the question I’m asking right now...if the names were reversed and GF had proactively banned one of the PSF mods here and the same thing happened over there, would you have a pro with it? Honest question.

If people just fucking knew what I’ve tried to do behind the scenes to straighten things out... nah, that was incredibly weak of me


Speaking of incredibly weak, WTF just happened to the quote function? :lol

It was broadly directed at the mods for letting the comments against Dick and Watamushi slide. You may disagree, I just don't think it's right.
[/quote]


Considering it was stated as “other mods” and I’m the only one besides Craig, I wouldn’t call it “broadly directed “. So in the same spirit of the insult  directed at me, I will ensure this reply will not be  incredibly weak. What WAS incredibly weak of me was  letting sh*t get to this point  which wouldn’t have happened had I seen Doe for what he was. What  was incredibly weak was me continuously trying to keep the peace to the point where my wording was used in a mocking manner in a troll account. What’s NOT incredibly weak is the question I’m asking right now...if the names were reversed and GF had proactively banned one of the PSF mods here and the same thing happened over there, would you have a pro with it? Honest question.

If people just fucking knew what I’ve tried to do behind the scenes to straighten things out... nah, that was incredibly weak of me
[/quote] 

That wasn't an insult, dude. No need to take it that way. This is just going round in a circle. I thought Rab was also a mod, which was a dumb mistake so sorry for that. It wasn't meant to be directed exclusively at you but my point still stands.

If the roles were reversed, yes, I would act in exactly the same way. I don't give the remotest of shats (you can't say sh*t here without it being censored and looking funny) which forum it's coming from, and I couldn't care less about your personal beef with Andrew Doe which I have nothing to do with. Watamushi and Dick Rising being insulted like that have nothing to do with AGD and neither do my opinions.

^In that case, I apologize. There’s a running joke with some of those people basically saying that GF is the moderator and I’m just a lackey, or Melinda’s employee, or whatever other sh*t is being tossed at me that week, and I thought you were joining in on that. Withdrawn

As for the other thing, well look at my posts in this thread and others.  I’ve warned people publicly and privately for trying to start up something between the boards. And yeah much of it has been private so you don’t know exactly everything that’s going on, but don’t assume dude. Seriously. And to tell the truth  I was very disappointed at how Craig’s banning went down and how it was ok for him to be jumped on but not for him to respond. That spoke volumes. So am I going to tell him “nah brother, you don’t have the right to be angry “? Hell no.  I have no issues with Dick nor Watamushi on a personal level. I mean, hell, I participate in the voting threads and I’m the guy who pinned the discord link to begin with! I myself am ready to call it a day and say ok f*** it, it happened so let’s move on. But if I’m the type of guy I keep getting accused of being we wouldn’t even by having this discussion. Please don’t confuse kindness for weakness . Without fail though no matter what I do I’m invariably going to piss someone off just by my very job...if I stay neutral and impartial both sides end up getting pissed off

I’m glad you at least can state that you would feel the same way if the roles were reversed. Sadly you’re one of the few then, and that issue is the crux of the problem here

That's all fair, sorry it came off as a jab. Like I said, I joined both forums around the same time after all that drama happened and I have no personal allegiance to any of it, or issues with any individuals beyond what's gone down since I've been at both places. Wasn't even aware of the running joke. I'm relatively neutral on Craig's banning from PSF because I think everyone there involved in flaming the squabbles should've been removed, and long before they were, but I understand where you're coming from. Thank you for a reasonable response.

"I myself am ready to call it a day and say ok f*** it, it happened so let’s move on."

Yes, please :lol

Works for me!

And for something infinitely more pleasant...
https://www.instagram.com/p/BrtKBHKngbD/

:heart eyes:

That brought such a smile to my face when I saw it..love seeing chilled out relaxed Brian singing and playing

Is It just me, or did Brian just sound thirty years younger, for a brief, fleeting second or two?

wjcrerar's answers/ points look the best & well-detailed than anybody's in the "different" (not really since he/she admitted they're neutral) side. Plus politer than The Lovester's & such. Thanks.

He really did.



Agreed and more proof that nobody on either side should paint everybody with the same brush

Thank you, I didn't wanna stir things further and I'm glad (I think) that I haven't. Maybe world peace is possible after all.

There are pictures taken over the years of Brian and all the Beach Boys standing around a piano pre/post shows doing the same thing, and they are awesome. Perhaps if that had have happened in 2012..... :'(

I'm just coming out of lurk mode to say that I am filled with dismay at the precarious position these archival releases seem to be in. The idea that the record companies or BRI or whoever might find even digital releases (which are totally fine by me) not worth the expense is heart breaking. All of that overshadows the message board drama, which, to be clear, is not  terribly interesting.

I feel you.  We’ve been blessed with a treasure trove of material and the idea that there’s a possibility of not getting anymore saddens me.  If it comes down to a kickstarter count me in

It's really sad to see, especially after Sunshine Tomorrow seemed to do so well. Alan mentioned to me that him and Mark expected the studio sets a week later but they were just dropped on Spotify immediately with no announcement. I guess the promo budget went to the RPO album this year, but they could at least act like they care. These sets should've and could've gotten the same level of praise if people actually knew about them.

If anything deserves a big Pet Sounds Sessions style boxset though it's Sunflower. So I guess there's hope?

Watamushi stepped down from his admin position on the PS Forum I just want to apologize for any hurtful words I said about Watamushi and Dick Rising’s moderation decisions. Though I still don’t agree with how things were handled there, I also didn’t need to say some things I said.

Any frustration I have regarding this drama is years of irritation about how things were handled from day one of that forum’s existence. That doesn’t excuse what I said about Watamushi and D Rising, but it at least explains the emotions behind what and why I said those things.

The biggest irony is my annoyance of how certain posters over on the PS forum act(ed) when I myself stooped to acting the same way because of this situation.

Watamushi has been such a positive part of this fandom since he arrived at both forums. If he doesn’t retake his admin position I hope he will at least continue to post and share his positivity about this music. I’m sorry again to both moderators, it’s not an easy job and my words certainly didn’t help.

What's very telling to me is they didn't listen to him when he politely asked people at PS, including Nicko1234/ monolithic, to take it to pm's & delete their "support" posts. If Watamushi tells VERY CLEARLY it's HIS fault, is it REALLY difficult to take his word? Nope, it's not you, it's dat evil bunch at SS who made you do it. Riiiiiight.
Look, folks, the *ultimate* decision is Watamushi's, no need to argue with the guy himself saying it's HIS fault.
I admire Watamushi for being noble like that without pointing fingers. Apparently, the others at PS can't accept it. As well as respect it.
The reactions were very predictable.
& rab2591, Watamushi doesn't go ANY where, he didn't say he leaves, he simply steps down as admin & mod. Then what's being sad about? What's the problem?

Whether or not I had any effect on his decision, his resignation made me realize how my words could (and possibly did) impact the actions/feelings of another (especially someone, as AGD put it, thrust head first into a ridiculous situation). If Watamushi said it was his own fault (I don't remember that part) then so be it, but I can still recognize that I didn't need to say a few things that I did.

He did say it. As to the other points, it's possible he could perhaps be affected by some things you or smb. else here said but, the decision is HIS. He could stubbornly still stay being admin, regardless if people feel he didn't prove to be good, could say "It's MY business & I'll be admin NO MATTER WHAT". But, he didn't.

I just tried to log into PSF and the site is down for "maintenance". Twice now, the site has gone down during the middle of a huge fuss. The first was a few days ago when Craig was getting attacked by filldepage and Sheriff John Stone, and now it happens again after a member of the board gets banned. That sure is a funny coincidence.

Damn, that is awful for both guys.... :-\

Jay, not sure if you’re being facetious, but when you go to the PSF site it says “due to a lack of mods the forum will be remain inactive until further notice.” So it definitely had to do with this.

What’s the funny coincidence jay?

What always amazes me is people constantly connecting dots that aren’t there. It doesn’t make you smart to have a theory. Usually the simple truth is the actual truth.

Yep, it's definitely it regarding things I said. Watamushi said it's HIS fault, then we shouldn't read much into it. If he stepped down, then he stepped down. What's the big deal?

Weren’t there two or three?

I guess sarcasm doesn't translate well through a computer.

I think the mods were watamushi, Dick Rising, and Niko. Both Niko and watamushi have resigned.

niko used to be admin, then resigned. Watamushi took his place. Then resigned today.

Just make AGD PSF dictator and get it over with... ;D.   Edit: what up Woodstock?

Why people insist saying "PSF"? It's obvious it's forum, just say PS.

What’s up smile Brian

I’m Niko on the PSF forum btw. That’s my real name. I guess most people wouldn’t know that.

That's pretty much what I just said.

Shoutout to PSF the pet sounds forum also known as PSF

I hope everything is good for you these days!

Shoutout to PSF the pet sounds forum which is very obviously forum with or without any "forum" attached to it. Haha! :-D Top that. :police:

You said niko was mod. Mod & admin = 2 different things, you know?

I was admin for most of its lifetime. I was never a mod.

I just spent 5 minutes of seriously hard work setting up a new forum to fill the gap for the more moderate Beach Boys fan.

It has very strict rules though. No major players in the SSMB/PSF dispute allowed. Any reference to said dispute means an instant ban.

Here ya go - http://breakaway.boards.net/

ooops, I think I forgot the password already.... ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Ha! Really like the new board name. :-D

And Stig sued himself accidentally.

Who's "Stig"?

Sting O’Hara, a character from The Rutles.

IN the future, everyone will have his or her own Beach Boys forum.

STIG O'Hara (no "n") - coincidentally, played by former Beach Boy Ricky Fataar.

It fit him to be clad in Beatles famous neck-free suit. IIRC, he's "George"?

Yep. And he played multiple instruments on the soundtrack album - guitar, bass, sitar...no drums, though. :)

Autocorrect got me.

I was under the impression that a mod and admin were essentially the same thing. Guess I was wrong.  ;D

Possibly, might be the only way we can all get on.

I've made myself "King Admin". Mods will be assigned but it will be like Murry pushing up and down the faders on the fake mixer....will think they are modding but.....nothing.

I've kept quiet until now, in the fear of derailing this thread with arguments, but now I'm no longer a staff there and I'd like to speak up.

First, I'm really relieved to hear that from you. I have been disturbed and devastated by the entire situation in the last few days (please note that it's not only about this thread), and I considered getting away from both of the forums at some point. Thank you so much for your apology.

I have to apologize myself, too, I'm afraid. Although we had to draw a line in somewhere and make a decision, the way I spoke about guitarfool over there was a tad too blunt and thoughtless, and I'm pretty sure that didn't help when guitarfool spoke up about it here.

Also, when a bunch of less engaged posters here spoke up against guitarfool, some of them came off somewhat aggressive toward him. When I saw them posted, I feared it would result in argument and I asked some of them via personal messages "not to take it too far", but some eventually took it a tad too far. I'm sorry about that.

That being said, in defence of these members, they are definitely not sock puppets of someone else who wants to hide their identity. They are all legitimate and verifiable members on here, PSF or Beach Boys Discord. I can assure it, and I believe so can Dick Rising.

Again, thanks for your words, as well as your appreciation on what I've been doing in music discussion. I'll see if I still feel comfortable being around here and there, and if I indeed do, I will continue to post, as long as my capacity allows. I hope I do.

Another board?  :lol   :lol :lol

I hope mushi will stay with us long term.

I'm setting up a forum and only I can join it

Watamushi - You are more than welcome to post here and I'm sure the readers here will continue to look forward to your contributions.

Thank you for your words of apology and let me offer my sincere words of apology in return. The situation escalated beyond where it should have, and I hope we can shake hands and put it behind us. If that is a workable situation, I'm willing to start fresh and move forward, with apologies for what happened.

The emotions and absolute frustration of what has been a situation festering for over two years (and far more beyond that) boiled over, thanks to yet again people who have histories of certain behaviors, and who cannot get over grudges. The sad part is good people, and good fans continue to get swept up in a tornado of spite and whatever else that is limited to a very, very small group of the same names.

If that can't be seen by now, it never will.

In terms of moderating here, since that group departed for whatever their reasons, Billy and I have had a good run here in terms of moderating, where there have been no major blow-outs that couldn't be handled, no consistent complaints or reports of bad behavior or insulting posts, and no reports of harassment or bullying...and it's been overall smooth sailing compared to how it was prior to 2016. That, too, speaks volumes. Once that group departed, the problems went out the door with them, and the numbers of readers (though some said the departures would kill the board) only increased...which was the original topic of this thread.


And that brings me full circle...Yesterday I walked away from this stuff and took a hiatus. Like Watamushi said, it was a disturbing situation and especially with this being the weekend before Christmas, it was too much. I was ready to come back on sometime in the next day, and just suggest everyone get away from the forums overall and enjoy the holidays...even if you don't celebrate Christmas, just get out among people and have fun. Drink a toast to your friends and good times, and all that. That's what I did yesterday, only in the form of eating a large meal and being Santa Claus trying to find last minute gifts.

Then I log on today to do just that, and see what has transpired.

So again, I hope Watamushi takes my apology as sincere, and I hope we can start putting this behind us and move forward. And I can say again that my reaction was coming from a place of frustration on what was being said and done, but if it's over then let's call it a done deal, Watamushi, take what we both said in the heat of the situation as just that, and move forward.

Well said Craig. I have additional comments to add but real quickly...let this be the beginning of the healing process...please. Let us all remember that we are fans first and on this board imho all else should be secondary

Honestly I had been thinking of starting a new site myself if things didn’t settle down. I was going to do it under a different  name and everything, so as not to have any baggage. Then this happened, and I seriously thought about why I’m here in the first place. I’m a moderator, true, but first and foremost I’m a Beach Boys fan. We all are, and trumps all else

This kind of comment should be removed IMO. I don't even post on PSF but this is nasty and leaving it up certainly doesn't help any healing.

I agree

Fixed

Thank you

Please do not ban me for this somewhat edgy joke...

I think General Mattis may be available to mod over at PS(F).  :police:

Those who didn't live through the situation that created two boards should understand that the mods here were faced with a very wrenching set of decisions that were neither made nor implemented lightly.

That history cannot (and must not) be erased or forgotten or deleted. Unpleasant as it may have been (and still is), we need the reminder--and we need to understand a key fact that unfortunately does come into play from time to time in families, communities, and civilizations:

--Some people simply cannot be forgiven.

That is what we are faced with. The mods here go as far as anyone in terms of indulgence and forgiveness. Anyone who mods any BB group has an essentially thankless task. Our guys make the right decision upwards of 95% of the time, and the decisions they made which led to the creation of PS(F) were on the money.

The divorce courts call it "irreconcilable differences." We should acknowledge that and sail on--and, speaking of which, who isn't glad to see Brian in that Instagram post so thoroughly enjoying himself while singing with Al? Let's all celebrate the fact that they are still with us--and that there are still two credible choices for direct contact with the people who made the music we all love so much. Let's take advantage of that, in whatever way we see fit, while that opportunity continues to exist...

Beautifully stated

I got a little too emotional today as well. Mushi is a great BBs fan... :bw

Anyone know what's going on with the site? Tried getting on it a few minutes ago, and says that it’s in Maintenance Mode which I do not know why that is.

Perfectly said. I support the mods here and appreciate all that they do. Whatever is happening behind the scenes, I know Billy and Craig are honest and dedicated people. May all of you have a wonderful Holiday.

Thank you very much Debbie Merry Christmas/Happy Holidays  to you and your as well!

See the most recent posts...I merged these

Alright, so it appears that the owner of PSF is not willing to reopen the forum, so we're now migrating to a new forum called Endless Harmony.  It's going to be a continuation of PSF and I've been made a mod.  I'm making this post here because PSF was abruptly shut down and a lot of the members there are not going to know about PSF or why it's not being reopened.  Here is the link for those of you interested: http://endlessharmony.boards.net/

You have absolutely nothing to apologize for, Watamushi. I feel terrible for the way I stated some things directed at you and D Rising, and I should have recognized how hurtful that was to both you and him at the time I wrote those posts.

Don Malcom put it perfectly above: "Anyone who mods any BB group has an essentially thankless task. Our guys make the right decision upwards of 95% of the time, and the decisions they made which led to the creation of PS(F) were on the money." That part in bold is why there is so much angst: People like Guitarfool and myself saw a lot of terrible things happen here, and our ongoing negative emotions come from seeing those same people who did those terrible things here get what look like free passes there (this mostly has to do with the decision to allow them on that forum in the first place when the board was created, and many decisions made after that).

This doesn't justify my comments toward you and D Rising, but I hope this helps people understand why some here get so heated about this stuff. Anyways, I've said my piece. I truly hope you stay on any Beach Boys forums you're apart of, the positivity you bring to the community is much needed.

Nice, the forum has been up for less than a few hours and Cam is already taking shots at Guitarfool. The name "Endless Harmony" became ironic in record time.

Sigh. I know but to hell with that. Let them do their own thing. Not going to have this all start over again.   I sincerely meant what I said earlier and I know Craig does as well.  At the end of the day it really is all about the music and quite frankly it should stay that way. I would ask that nobody takes any potshots in return, but also not start promoting it over here (the initial post from ck is fine) . I also ask that none of us register over there to start sh*t or promote this board over there.  This fight is done.

Absolutely right, Billy. Apologies for the above post, and from here on the drama is over from my end.

Happy Holidays/Christmas to everyone here!

Seconded

Thank you so much for your apology. I'm really relieved to hear that.

I'm more than willing to put behind what had happened to us and move forward, and I do hope everybody around will.

Here here, and best holiday wishes to each and everyone of you!

(post deleted)

Now apologies have been made, and we're moving on.

Craig, your inability to let go of grudges and to ever do any serious self-reflecting is a scourge upon the Beach Boys online fan community and NO ONE is more responsible for the schisms that exist. Truth.

(post deleted)

It was closed because of the decision made by forum owner, Anderrson.

New board is here(http://endlessharmony.boards.net/ (http://endlessharmony.boards.net/)), and PSF members are moving on to this place.

(previous post deleted)

I might as well delete most of this stuff. Much more important stuff in life, after all. Peace to all.

Thanks Watamushi. I just registered there, and glad you're there too!

He did already. Perhaps you should edit out the previous post, since now it's irrelevant.

People from both boards, now a third, have apologised and moved on.

It’s Christmas Eve for me. Think of ‘the reason for the season’ and do the same.

So far you haven’t posted anything I can see worth a ban. Be a bigger person and leave it that way huh?  ;)

I confess that I hadn't been fully briefed on the situation before I posted, so I went back and removed most of my posts. If you are able to delete my post you quoted, please do.

Merry Christmas to you. Yes, there are bigger and more important things to meditate on. My baby daughter was baptized today, so believe me I understand that!

You should remove each post.

I have removed all but one. There are some that are quoted by others; wish i could remove them too. Especially the one that had all the typos (I accidentally hit "post" before I had spell-checked).

I apologize to all for posting before I understood that a) the PSF came down due to the decision of its creator and b) that the new forum was already operational.

Deleted almost all of it.  ;)

Perhaps others might read it and think better before posting.

 Merry Christmas.  :)

Catbirdman, your Reply no.298 is irrelevant now with new board creation. Reply no.297 is a bit late since GF/ Craig as you called him brought apology as well.

Please do not advise me anymore on what I should or should not do. I have removed some of my posts, yes, but I did so because my conscience advised it. I did not do so because you asked me to. I hope you understand that. You have no authority over me.

Post #297 is the one I will let stand. I am not saying Craig brought down PSF, and I don't believe that is the case. But I will let the post stand because I believe it to be the truth and I think it needed to be said for at least 4 years now. I am a nobody in the BB universe so I don't care what heat I get for it.

If others decide to remove #297 from the public record, I suppose I have no control over that.

I try to assist in the inter-board reconciliation, yet you start things again, despite posters including Watamushi saying GF apologized. Then there shouldn't be at this point any talk of "grudges" & "schism". Hence advices. Sure, let it stand if it's what your conscience tells you. Please, in future don't tell things like "you have no authority over me". There's no need to be that way when I merely - politely, mind you - asked you to edit posts. Thanks.

Edit: Happy holidays, everybody. We don't celebrate here but I shall raise orange juice glass to you, people. :D (super strict teetotaler speaking here) Lemme bite Christmas cake & Christmas candies. :D

Thank you RR

In any case today is a new day. I’m letting bygones be bygones for 99.9% of everyone and would appreciate it if others did the same .

......and then there was world peace.  8)

:h5

Thanks

Ouch, this could mean the death of my new board. Hope Rocky doesn't pull the funding from me.

Joking aside. Good luck with it!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas_truce

May we all enjoy Happy Holidays. I think this was originally intended to honor and thank those who've worked so hard to maintain and support SS. I think that's a great place to end. But that's just my opinion, which is worth what any opinion is worth. ;D

Thank you much Debbie.


Closing this thread with the perfect way to do so....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EEgLe6x8j64

Being gone all day with Christmas activities, I didn't even get a chance to reply or say thank you to anyone before it was locked!  :lol

So I just wanted to say an overall thank you, and Merry Christmas, Happy Holidays, and all other appropriate greetings and salutations. As I drink another Sierra Nevada Celebration IPA, I raise the glass in a toast to all who contribute and all who enjoy this forum. Cheers, and here's to another 12 years. You're the best.

Ok, locked again.  ;D