The Smiley Smile Message Board

This appeared in The Guardian today:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/culture/2013/jul/04/beach-boys-mike-love-interview

A straight shooter. Gotta love him.

Not in my copy of the Guardian it didn't. All I had was an interview with Ellen Page (woof!). Think this maybe an online only piece. Anyway, now to read it...

Fucking hell - not again! 

''I was at the breakfast table when Paul McCartney came down with his acoustic guitar playing Back in the USSR. I said, "You ought to put something in about all the girls around Russia," and he did''.

This actually had me rolling on the floor with laughter! He must do that intentionally... No-one can really be like that, I'm sure?

"I was hoping to get together with Brian on [2012's] That's Why God Made the Radio, but a guy who was involved in the production of that album engineered it otherwise."

Cat's pretty much out of the bag on that one, then.

I found the public comments following the piece more entertaining than the interview.

It'll be in tomorrows paper.

God, any of us could write this though. Good on Dave Simpson for asking a better set of questions but he STILL GOES ON ABOUT THE BLOODY BEATLES.

He's also writing a book. Mike Love Like A Man. He also refers to himself in the third person here, god love him.

Yeah, the JT dig is... interesting. Tough call - Brian has stockpile of tunes he wants for 'final' Beach Boys album he's been saving for over a decade vs. Mike's interest in writing with Brian. But then, the Don Was quote about how the two worked together in the nineties springs to mind.

'Do you see a lot of Brian?'

'I saw a lot of him on the tour' is a bit lol. '70 dates is enough of Brian, tbh'

I think the people who hate "Kokomo" and blame Mike for it are giving him too much credit.  John Phillips and Scott McKenzie wrote it.  Melcher and Love's writing credits are mostly superfluous.

Agreed. This made me laugh out loud:

''When I was a kid, he [Mike] really scared me in the Good Vibrations video. All the others were cute and chubby and he was there like a Manson tramp that had wandered in off the street. Terrifying''.

That one caused a coffee spittake all over my monitor. Thanks, Guardian comments section.

He obviously just genuinely doesn't realise how daft it makes him look saying these same things over and over again. What gets me is here is someone who was in the greatest American band of all time, who co-wrote numerous stone-cold classics - including The Greatest Single Of All Time: Good Vibrations - and yet all he ever bangs on about is how he once vaguely suggested some song lyrics to Paul McCartney 45 years ago... What is wrong with the man?

I don't believe one bit that Mike was sober during the Olympia '69 concert.

I'll say one thing that he was correct about, and that is, we do have too much time on our hands. If he thinks giving Paul advice on a song is important to him, then so be it. I'm glad he has memories that make him happy and give meaning to his life. None of what he said here is worth going over in here for the 1,000th time. The only new thing was the Joe Thomas stuff. I guess he was really there to run interference between Brian & Mike. And we thought it was just to add autotune to everything. ;)

Based on the comments here and on Facebook, myKe luHv's reputation for being an asshole is vastly widespread and fairly common knowledge. Skip the book, myKe-we already know your story. :tm

Same here.  And they're on the money.

Exactly! Mike Love really told the truth with that one. Seriously. I'm not a Pro-Lover by any means, but he told it like it is. Especially concerning some of the people on this board. They have no lives, and have nothing else in the world to do but come on this board and rag on Mike about this and that and the other thing. The guy can't do anything right. Especially on the subject of the end of the C50 tour.  It's really old hat.

+1

This is basically how I feel, too, about the interview. I will only add that, yes, we now we have proof (if you believe Mike; most Beach Boys are full of sh*t in their interviews) that Mike was not happy with the recording process of TWGMTR. However, Brian could've overridden Joe Thomas and didn't. Mike didn't say it but I'll bet he was hurt and disappointed, and HE STILL IS. I don't think Mike wants a repeat of that situation, thus, we have another Brian Wilson solo album.

"Hey Brian, I just went to the beach and the waves and the girls were great. We've got to do a song called Do It Again."

Pure genius.

Nice to see Mike is finally getting a book together. Love him or hate him, the man has got a story to tell.

Let's be real here: If you hung out with the Beatles and helped inspire one of their songs that sees a lot of radio play for forty-five years, you'd probably bring it up a lot too.

Paul McCartney said that "God Only Knows" is his favorite song. Paul McCartney said that "God Only Knows" is his favorite song. Paul McCartney said that "God Only Knows" is his favorite song. Paul McCartney said....

+1. Way to point out the Brianista double standard.

Saying that you wrote Paul's favorite song which Paul would probably agree with is a little bit different than saying that you helped Paul write a song which Paul would probably deny.

[AUTO TUNE]

MEeeeeeeeowwwww    ;D

My favorite comment:

"My sister had five goldfish once and I got her to name them after the Beach Boys. But then one of them had fin rot and gave it to the others. Except Mike. That fish lived forever. Figures..."

This just makes me sad about the phoniness of the reunion though.  All of those comments about how great it was to be together, creating the illusion that it was all "fun, fun, fun" like the PBS special, all for show. 

Probably my only legitimate beef with Dr. Love over the years was during Mike's lawsuit connected with the Beach Boy record in the Sunday UK newspaper (around the time of the BWPS release). The feel good story of a musical resurrection just seemed to get stomped on when Mike erroneously filed that lawsuit. And it got thrown out with prejudice, so it's all good - but at the time I really hated the dude's guts, in a visceral manner.

But all this is that, and time marches on. Quick to anger, quick to forgive is a good motto.

About the 'people with no lives' comment, I gotta say that music is like religion to me. Explaining your spiritual connection and obsession with something as fleeting as music, is impossible. It stands to reason that the deeper you go, the louder the opinion. And so it is. All this is that.

And BRAVO on news of a book. Hope it happens. We will no doubt find fault with several of the excerpts, but think of what it will add to the ever evolving history of this great band. And think of what it will add to message board invectives from sea to shining sea!

Just because he had a few issues during the reunion doesn't mean he didn't enjoy it on the whole. Nothing phony there that I see.

It's one thing to have an interest and talk music, but it is quite another thing to start sites hating on someone, music or not.

The only thing I found lame about the interview is that constant reminder of being voted #1 in a reader's poll 47 years ago and the constant, this song was #1 in year blah blah. We get it. Almost 50 years ago you had #1 hits but what are you doing now?

Regardless if you like Mike or not, that book would be damn entertaining.

Well his dissatisfaction with Brian having Joe Thomas as his collaborater certainly explains his comments about a future Beach Boys album after the reunion was over - he'll only consider it if it's  a Brian- Mike writing team all the way, all songs.  And I can't see Brian ever doing that. 

Cool and funny interview, it looks like we may be getting some solo stuff released by Mike and also a book! I hope it's titled Mike Love Like A Man, although I will have to sue him if it is.

Not a bad interview.  Why didn't Mike write some songs with Brian when they were on tour last year?  They had lots of time.

He does 160 concerts a year?  I think AGD knows something about the accuracy of that comment.

Mike fancies himself a wordsmith, but the best word he can come up with to describe Carl's death -- his cousin, his bandmate of 37 years --  is "bummer"? Bummer?

I don't think the interview is that bad and gave us some good information.  It seems that Mike Love is still interested in writing with Brian Wilson and I at least would not be opposed to the two cousins at least trying to reform their partnership sometime in the future.  The problem is realistically I wonder if Mike realizes that why writing with Brian in 2013 might not be feasible.

Mike Love is still in his "whatever will be will be" mode which is pretty much what I expected.  He again doesn't address the issue that according to Brian Wilson and Al Jardine they were willing to go forward with the C50 and instead makes it sound like Brian was gung-ho to get off the road go back into the studio which doesn't necessarily mesh with the Wilson/Jardine version of the story.  So again he is trying to put the best face on things but on another level is ignoring the elephant in the room.  

A Mike Love solo album to me at least would be an interesting venture.  I would probably view it in the same way I do most of Brian's solo albums which is under the header of "wait and see".  If it did find any success or even any positive reviews it might go a long way to silencing those "gas station" fans anyhow, perhaps permanently.

Yes, and Stebbins should be the person to write it.

We don't know that for sure.  There were reports that Brian Wilson had his own bus and pretty much kept to himself and his entourage during the tour.  I made this point last week but in my opinion Mike Love didn't just wake up one cool autumn morning and decide to stomp the C50.  I'm almost 100% positive that at least once during the tour that Love made an attempt to voice his issues and complaints with the appropriate parties and was either not given an audience to air his concerns or his concerns were ignored.  In short, I don't think that the boys last year were going out for burgers and shakes a great deal of the time after the shows.  Maybe I'm wrong but I just don't see the situation arising for Mike and Brian to collaborate much on new material while they were touring last year.  Heck taking The Beach Boys out of it for a moment, there are a lot of artists who make it a hard and fast rule not to write while touring because they don't view it as the best environment to foster creativity.  

Did it ever occur to you that it's probably not something he likes talking about?

That aside, both Brian and Mike still use phrases and words as if they were teenagers. Brian was 'bummed' at the end of the C50 etc, so IMO neither have advanced much in 50 years.

As much as it may hurt Mike, it is unlikely he will write a song many will want to hear.

I wonder what kind of lyrics Mike would've penned for "From There To Back Again"...

Man, I hope his book is ten thousand pages long! The Mike Love Perspective is amazing!

Could've been worse. He could've said 'it's a drag'.

Why is calling Carl's death "a bummer" easier on Mike's feelings than calling it, for instance, "heartbreaking"?

I'm not saying that Mike didn't feel Carl's death keenly -- what I am saying is that after 15 years Mike, the Beach Boys word man,  should have come up with a less crass way of discussing what is, arguably, the key event in Mike's professional life.

For someone who is a genuinely smart dude, I am surprised that Mike doesn't put two and two together on this. The reason "a guy" involved in the album's production kept Mike away from writing with Brian is because Brian didn't want to write (much) with Mike. It's a perfectly consistent pattern shown over forty-plus years with the eldest Wilson: He uses other people (both shady and non) to shield him from people and situations he doesn't want to deal with. When he was done with Joe Thomas the last time, he tried to have his band fire him, and then had Melinda sue him. I'm sure that Brian is genuinely manipulated from time to time, but in this case it seems pretty clear that he had a largely pre-existing group of songs (and song concepts) he wanted the Beach Boys to record. He did not want to hash out an album with Mike as an equal creative collaborator.

Interesting interview. Great to hear he's writing a book.

Sadly, any views the public has of Mike are entirely his own fault. He quite simply doesn't do himself justice.

That said, I'm listening to "all summer long" right now and I love Mike with all my heart.

I'm also glad that Mike wants to get his music out. It deserves to be heard, and is often better than his contributions to latter-day BB records.

Why the hell does Mike want to force himself on BW's music, the two just don't work together anymore.

I think they could could if Mike really tried.

I think Mike still has some artistic integrity left in him, he just needs to dig deep.

"Spring Vacation" and "Beaches in Mind" are somebody putting together lyrics in 10 minutes. I doubt those songs are all Mike has left.

Mike's comments are heartbreaking. It is now clear that he never have the full emotional and creative Union I should say reunion he longed for with his cousin Brian. We have at best marginal Beach Boys album. And it looks like we are never going to get a true new Beach Boys album because of these circumstances. Mike brought an open n heart and a creative mind back to the band he loves, and he was rebuffed and rejected by all those neo Landy forces.

spring vacation is a rocking romp that should have been promoted and should have been a single put out the spring before the album was released. Beaches in mind is under produced and needs to be completely remade to achieve greatness. I do not doubt that the engineer or producer who put it together intentionally encoded failure in it. I believe that Mike was given a few minutes to write those lyrics in some preexisting songs, but never had a full contemplative meditative time alone with Brian to write and to think. He was asked to fill in but not to compose exclusively or in a comfortable setting with Brian. This is what my cuz just now said, and now we all know that it must be true because I had revealed it. How tragic for him to be ddenied this opportunity and look at the result

I think the last album was far from marginal and think the creative process was similar to Pet Sounds.  Mike got three songs on it, rather than the one and "good night" refrain on Pet Sounds.  He also got more lead vocals too, I think.  Mike still brags about Ole Pet Sounds but comparatively, TWGMTR was a more collaborative record.  He should be proud of his contributions to it and not complain that he didn't get to make more. 

We know Al was disappointed that Waves Of Love got blown off and we know that Bruce and David were at least given an inkling that they might get a songwriting credit on the album.  I suspect the circumstances of their songs not making it were similar to what Al went through but we don't hear the other guys complaining about not being able to write more songs on the album.  Sheesh, Mike!  You are the stage (as you've hammered home the point by choosing to not extend the reunion tour for a third leg), Brian is the studio.  Right?  OK then.  Let everyone play their roles.  Be the instrument you were OK being in the "Come Back To LA" footage and be happy that the Beach Boys can continue to make people happy with their CONTINUED music (the way TWGMTR made ME happy).  ...Or don't.

I have never believed that a Beach Boys album, good or great or otherwise, requires Mike and Brian to co-write songs. Pet Sounds and Smile and Holland and Love You all work without that ingredient, and they are many folks' favorites. TWGMTR is far more than a marginal BB record, and its shortcomings are, in general, Mike's contributions.

Do we here put words in your mouth? Do we tell you how to express your feelings? Mike should be allowed to express his feelings within ways that he is comfortable, just like you or any of us.

Though you are correct in many ways, you are still incorrect in so far as the music that they are most known for, and what each faction plays at there concerts, and for what most of the fans go to hear. Also, which albums do you think sell the best? To this day, the pre Pet Sounds era is what most fans want to hear and buy. After 50 years, it is what it is no matter how we think we know better.

Exactly!  :rock

Mike is a BIG part of the band and his early co-writes are classics but there's SOOOOO much more to the Beach Boys than that.  Write some, sing some, and enjoy the ride, Mike.  Stop being so negative, Mr. Positivity.   :lol

:woot :woot :woot :woot :woot :thumbsup :thumbsup :thumbsup :thumbsup :thumbsup

For a long while, I was of the opinion that Mike Love was a good reason to be embarrassed to be a Beach Boys fan.
I was much more comfortable identifying as a Brian Wilson fan. And, in recent years, he has made me proud in my loyalty.
But, I've also mellowed toward Mike and now appreciate more his stage-persona and his being in accord with the realities of show-biz.

(http://image.pollstar.com/WeblogFiles/pollstar/1108111228056362765_777911_v1.jpg)

He's worked diligently over the years to give the masses what they expect from The Beach Boys, and he's played the scapegoat for as many years for all that is wrong with the Beach Boys. He's an easy target, it seems, whether its his fault or not.  But my attitude these days is that he has every right to claim commercial success and artistic integrity. He was a Father of the band's early image of surf, cars, and girls-----a winning formula. He stretched out as a songster in such gems as "Warmth of the Sun" and "Good Vibrations." Those works, written on short order, have endured the test of time. I think now that his antagonism toward SMiLE is exaggerated; he delivered what Brian asked of him in those vocal sessions, and his loss of faith in Brian seems only to take full form after the production collapsed and when Brian retreated from working. And yet, Mike kept on delivering solid lyrics, like "Wild Honey" and "Darlin'" and he kept the band commercially viable (at least) as a touring entity that kept the music alive year after year. He's earned bragging rights about the friendly competition with the Beatles, and the artistic license to make a legend out of suggesting a hook to Paul McCartney. I also think he's an interesting example of "West Coast Seeking" in his trip to India and lifelong practice of meditation; that influence in Beach Boys songs certainly planted seeds in my own spiritual life, which led to my embracing of the ideals of Vedanta and yogic disciplines.

(http://userserve-ak.last.fm/serve/500/87881139/Mike+Love.png)

Losing Carl was a bummer...?
Dennis Wilson's Demise...?

Demise sounds like he was murdered!

So when Mike's demise happens that will be a bummer...   :o

I honestly think Mike treats Brian like poorly even though he owes Brian everything for his current wealth and lifestyle. (IMO)

Didn't McCartney say it was a bummer when John got murdered and was heavily criticized for it?

He said it was a "drag".

Honestly, Mike and Brian are both crappy interviews. Mike always says the same thing, Brian hates being interviewed so usually says the same crap too, or he just blames things on drugs. The only one who is even a halfway decent interview is Al, not that he is more accurate than Mike and Brian, but he's just a better interview.

They never had a guy who could talk to and engage the press well, which is probably part of why their profile is lower than it should be.

Also, at first glance I thought this thread title was,

Mike Love: 'There are a lot of fellatio about me'

Yeah, that was it, A Drag. Guess it was worse because it had just happened.

Mike does seem to always say the same thing. He has the unique talent of positive talking in the most negative way.
Al is a good interview but his memory might be even worse than mine.  :o

 I would have liked the reporter to have asked, do you guys really get along, and if not, why.

I think Mike is obsessed with TM and if he was serious about lyrics, they would be TM infused, like Cool Head, Warm Heart.  It didn't do anything for me.

Brian is still bringing great music to the table and Mike is not, that's not Brian's problem.

The world is not missing out on 40 minutes of Spring Vacation.

I reckon Mike could've said 'Carl? I'm glad he's dead' and people on here would still be saying 'Hey allow Mike to express his grief his own way' etc. Well sorry, but it really isn't ok to describe the death of your cousin and band-mate of 30+ years as a 'bummer'. A bummer is stubbing your toe in the morning or having your bike stolen. Mike's a grown adult. Most grown-ups have learnt by the age of 70 what language is and isn't appropriate and when.

Anyway, on a positive note it looks from what he says that First Love might be due for release. I certainly hope so, and I hope we get the originals and not new recordings. It's a great album! Viggie is one of his finest ever songs. Hope Glow Crescent Glow will see the light of day too - beautiful track.

Here's a few more comments left beneath Mike's interview. Please note: I am NOT saying I agree and/or disagree with these, I'm just posting them as an example of people's differentiating (and often extreme) opinions of Mike. This first one is pretty shocking (I've never heard anyone ever claim 'Mike popped champagne when Dennis died'). He really does seem to stir very strong reactions in people.

1.

Mike Love:

Popped champagne when cousin Dennis died (Allegedly).
Bullied cousin Brian.
Brother Steve Love physically assaulted cousin Dennis.
Brother Stan Love physically assaulted cousin Dennis, destroying his voice and physically scarring him.
Brother Stan Love physically assaulted cousin Carl (you know the placid one).
Blondie Chaplin left The Beach Boys because brother Stan Love physically assaulted him (noticing a pattern yet?).
Gave his first wife cigarettes to impress her (and later beat the sh*t out of her for smoking).
Beat up other women.
Thumped someone else's child for messing up his house.
Called cousin Dennis “a drugged-out no-talent parasite who we've sacked”.
Keeps suing his cousins and poor Al Jardine.
Sacked cousin Brian, Al & David Marks so he could tour with fairgrounds with his touring band.
Demands songwriting credits for writing one or two lines of a song (or even a few words).
Verbally assaulted & belittled far more talented musicians at the RR Hall of Fame, while his embarrassed bandmates had to stand there like idiots.

2.

Mike Love openly ripping apart the rock/pop canon at the R&RHOF is more 'punk' than not showing up and sending a letter.

The man is comedy gold. Whether it's intentional or not is pretty irrelevant.

3.

A lot of hostility towards Mike here. Each of the Beach Boys had their flaws and the music I know and love would not exist as we know it without Mike.

Mike Love, not war.

4.

You might have asked this clown about giving seed money to found Tipper Gore's music censorship organization the PMRC, and how his supposed "anti-war" beliefs fit in with his strong support of Ronald Reagan and George H.W. Bush. He still wouldn't understand why people hate him, but everyone else would.

5.

Huge BB fan, I cant see the BB's without Mike Love's trademark "cali whine" sound. I liked Pet Sounds, but I prefer the early 60's stuff. Surfing Safari, Surfing, Surfin' USA, 409, Catch a Wave, etc. these would not be the same without Mike's vocals...and he still looks good with all that plastic surgery...

[Has Mike had surgery?]

I can't find anything on Mike having surgery, but it does seem like something he would try to do to keep up The Beach Boys image.

Let's face it, those message-board people who "have more time on their hands than they should" would probably be the only ones truly interested in a Mike Love solo album.

I wouldn't mind more Brian/Mike co-writes but please spare us with stuff like "Beaches in Mind". Just because people still love the early hits doesn't mean they want to hear pale and calculated imitations of what was once youthful, innocent, joyful and brilliant. They should probably go for a love-song approach, I think that might spur some interesting results. Mike's always been very good at these type of lyrics anyway (think 2nd side of Today, Warmth of the Sun, the whole of Wild Honey, All I Wanna Do...).

Mike comes off fine here. People saying otherwise are looking to pick at things. No doubt he does say it like he sees it here.

What was to stop Mike writing great lyrics beforehand and bringing them to Brian?

Where were the pre-written lyrics on a par with Mike's excellent Wild Honey songs, lyrics so good Brian was inspired to come up with some crazy beautiful melody to back them up?


If Mike didn't get a chance to co-write new stuff with Brian, then it's Brian's call.

Both these posts seem on the money to me.


Right on the money!

Ultimately when I feel he's acted like a bonehead I say so, but most times the reaction he gets is odd to me. If (for instance) Smile alone is the crux for most people, listen to Mike's vocals during those sessions. Like his other band mates his singing was brilliant. He has a lot of faults, but when I think of Smile myself I enjoy the performances and forget about any drama. If he didn't end up doing his job so well, maybe I would complain more too.

Speaking of interviews, this Brian interview from 1974 is fantastic.  He is so sharp, entertaining  and together.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=379l_T3MRpE

I'm not the first one to say it, but whatever Mike thought of Van Dyke's lyrics to Cabin Essence, he sure sung the hell out of them. Brian couldn't have asked for a better performance. If Brian had the urge to finish Smile, he could have done.

Mikie - I was impressed that Mike meant the "hater-specific" sites, and not the general music of the BB's discussion.  There are many music students, and working musicians who have learned much from this music.

Frankly, I waited a long time, for a forum which was not available when I was living my life in high school and college, etc, with the great wealth of their music always in the background. It is a gift - this forum.  Most, here are mature and can be objective, despite personal likes and dislikes.  I'm delighted to see Mike articulate the truth about this calamity of a CD. My head nearly exploded, when I first heard it.  When a cell phone audio and video are found superior to a so-called professional, the standard merits investigation.  I'm holding out hope that the London Shows would be released "raw" (as the cell phones recording) and in a DVD/CD format.  I liken it to "boiling filet mignon."  It might be redemption.

 As for writing with Brian; three's a crowd.  Despite other contributors, Brian and Mike are the main men.  It's their vision, and their synergy.  For me, it is still a deal-breaker. 

And, enjoy Al's event! I'm sure that those who plan to attend appreciate your insight into the parking dilemma!  ;)

In Mike's opinion, yes, the world IS missing that. And, Mike's thought that way since, when, 1974? Mike always did and always will "go with the numbers". Most Beach Boys' fans prefer the 1962-1965 period. Those songs get the biggest applause at the concerts. The comps continue to sell because of those songs. Mike truly believes those songs are what define The Beach Boys. Those are the songs that made them millionaires. Those are the songs that won them MOST of the praise they have received in their career. We on this board, and a certain percentage of fans adamantly disagree with Mike. But, he will continue to promote that period. He will continue to "go with the numbers". To Mike, he feels that is logical, that will trump everything else, that's all he knows. History is on his side. We know that because Mike keeps telling us about it.

And you know what? maybe "Spring Vacation" would've been a semi-hit single last spring/summer. Maybe more "Spring Vacation"-like songs would've sold even more copies of TWGMTR. Maybe the disappointment (for the average fan) of TWGMTR was the lack of vintage sounding Beach Boys' songs. Replace "The Private Life Of Bill And Sue" and add another B.Wilson/M. Love rocker and do you have a stronger album? On this board - a resounding NNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOO! But, for the millions of Beach Boys' fans - YYYYYEEEEESSSSSSS! According to the gospel of Michael Edward Love. It'll never change, and it will continue to divide everyone and everything, sadly....

Classic example of Chinese Whispers, and the reason why having old dudes like me around, who remember the original reports, is actually a good thing. Yes, Mike popped champagne at the memorial service for Dennis. On the way he bought four bottles of the most expensive bubbly he could find because he figured (doubtless correctly) Dennis would appreciate the gesture. The champagne was drunk at the 'reception' after the service, then Mike & Brian shot baskets out back and talked about Dennis...

Wait...

BRIAN PLAYED HOOPS AT DENNIS' WAKE ??

What a positively disgusting display of tactlessness... what a complete lack of reverence for his recently departed sibling... the man obviously has no shred of human decency. Of course, you'd expect Mike to do that, but Brian ?

Being sarcastic, in case some folk didn't notice, but fact is, the champagne story - a nice gesture to his cousin - has become twisted over time into another example of what a complete ass Mike is. I'm sure there are many, many more examples.

How dare you go on to comment about the state of the champagne at Dennis' memorial?

By the way, I'm pretty sure it was "drank", not drunk.

Drinken, actually.

Andrew is correct. Past participle of drink is drunk
Drink - present
Drank - simple past
Drunk - past participle.

Champagne toast after the service, absolutely appropriate. 

As is the game of hoop, to de-stress.   ;)

Is Andrew an "old dude?" Nah!  :lol - I'll drink to that!  :beer

What amazes me in here is that we are the knowledgeable ones. We are the hard-core fans that follow and study the band and are supposed to know our sh*t, yet we start a thread like this and say the most stupid stuff when we should know better. It truly saddens me that WE are just as responsible for spreading false rumors and downright lies as the HATE sites that pop up about Mike.

I think it's super insulting to Brian that he makes it sound like Joe Thomas engineered the proceedings so Brian and Mike wouldn't write together. I get the vibe that he really does think "cousin Brian" is a brainless vegetable that can't think for himself. And once again, let's look at the true facts. It was pretty much said by Joe Thomas that both "Isn't It Time" and "Beaches In Mind" were both made up right there at the studio. Sounds pretty damn organic to me. And say, if the greatest living composer asks me to write some lyrics to an old gospel type thing ("Lay Down Your Burden"→"Spring Vacation"), I'd still feel really happy, because even though he's my cousin, I'd still be through over the moon that this amazing musician still wanted to work with me after all these years. And then to hear that I can do another album with this same cousin and great group of guys? Surely with some more writing contributions? I can't see why Mike wouldn't want it, besides the fact that he thinks his cousin is a pathetic shell abused by greedy advisers, and that he knows best.

I gotta say, I got a little chuckle out of "There's a song called Going to the Beach, a Beach Boys summertime classic." So the man still has his doubts about some of the SMiLE material, but "Goin' To The Beach"? Summertime classic.  ::)

On that note though, I really do hope he starts getting some solo material out there. He has some good music. I thought that the two original solo songs he has released this millennium, "Cool Head, Warm Heart" and "Love Like in Fairytales" were both pretty nice. And it seems like he was waiting for Capitol or somebody to offer him a contract for this stuff, not realizing that while there is a market for Mike Love solo material, it is SO incredibly small. But it would make sense to put it on iTunes and sell copies on his website and at Beach Boys shows. Unless he doesn't think it's up to snuff. Which I think is partially the problem a little bit too. Cuz even though he has some nice stuff, some is horrendous.

I have no way of knowing for sure about this, but it seems that when Mike met with Brian to discuss a new album back in 2011, that he was under the impression that the two of them would write the bulk of the album together, not to just throw him a bone for a song or two.

EDIT: Correction

Pretty sure they met back in 2010 or 2011, not last year. And I think the original pitch may have been to re-record some classics, which one expects Brian knew was the kind of thing to hook Mike. All along, I'm pretty sure that Brian planned to record something very much along the lines of TWGMTR.

Sorry, I meant 2011 when I said last year.

It is ironic that Love is the one that originally brought Joe Thomas into the Beach Boys family with the Stars and Stripes debacle...

And why would Mike think that? Brian already had a decent number of compositionally finished pieces when he went to both Mike and Capitol. And when was the last time Brian and Mike wrote the majority of an album project together? Wild Honey?

I think at the end of the day it just comes down to one thing. Since 1998, or more likely, since around 1988, Mike has been in charge of The Beach Boys as a group. They basically did what he wanted. They recorded Summer In Paradise, which was his thing. They did the country thing, Stars & Stripes, which was also his call. The touring group since 1998 has been "his" group, to the extent that he probably imagines that the group that tours as "The Beach Boys" is his "solo project."

So when Brian comes in makes it clear that he wants to do this Beach Boys album, and that it's gonna be done his way, I don't think that sat well with Mike. I think Mike would be fine if that meant they were equals, but it didn't. Brian (and Joe Thomas) were in charge, and Mike was basically back to the Pet Sounds/SMiLE era, basically frozen out of the writing with a few bones thrown his way vocally. And for an ego the size of Doctor Love, I don't think that's acceptable, even though to most of us, I think TWGMTR was a pretty nice compromise, although maybe if they did more albums, you could have a Bruce or Al song here or there.

I think Mike made it quite clear from the very beginning that he was looking to do an album written by Brian and himself. Just because Brian had compositions in the can doesn't mean Mike couldn't write new lyrics, though I really think Mike wanted the two to write from scratch. Once in the studio to record, I doubt that Mike had issues with who was in charge. He has never complained about how things were recorded, only partnership writing.

I think the distinction some draw here -- about the hit years versus the post hit years -- is a red herring. Mike didn't have much to do with PS or Smile or Holland or Love You as a writer, they say, but those albums didn't do super well. Look to the hit years instead!

... Except for the fact that Mike was was only one of a stable of co-writers for Brian in that period. Gary Usher and Roger Christian each played huge roles in the band's hits (and Jan Berry co-wrote Brian's first number one). Brian and Mike never had a McCartney-Lennon style partnership, and Mike never had the talent of either to begin with.

... And this is not to say that Mike is untalented, or didn't write classic songs with Brian. He is and he did. But his greatest contributions to the band were seldom as a writer. They were as a distinctive lead singer and onstage front man.

I would venture to say that Brian wrote with Mike the most during the hit years. The hits themselves were written with Usher and Christian, along with Mike, but many of the album tracks were with Mike.

People love the early stuff and rightly so. But it won't come back if all you do is rhyme something with "good vibration".

"We'll find a place in the sun/Where everyone can have fun, fun fun" - who wants to hear that when they can have the actual "Fun Fun Fun" instead? M.I.U. Album tanked, KTSA didn't sell, Summer in Paradise is widely considered an artistic low-point and may be the biggest non-seller of the group's entire career. Fittingly, "Spring Vacation" and "Beaches in Mind" got heavily criticized by both fans and professional writers alike. Personally I'm very open to the fun-in-the-sun thing as long as it's not BB by numbers. If Mike wants to write about the beach, fine, but he should do it with a modicum of dignity then (which was not apparent in "Kona Coast" or "Spring Vacation" or "Beaches in Mind" I think).

Only if it's not true. Even thought about that possibility ?

Sooooo...you believe Brian himself had nothing to do with that?

Hey the Q&A wasn't even in today's Guardian after all anyway... They ran one with John Travolta instead, blabbing on about Scientology like a loon.

Did you mean "ever thought"? Mr. Wilson is watching.

Well said.

Seriously?
Here are a few Wilson-Love...
Do It Again
Good Vibrations
Let Him Run Wild
Let The Wind Blow
Little St. Nick
The Man with All the Toys
Meant for You
The Warmth of The Sun
Add Some Music (with Joe Knott)
All Summer Long
California Girls
Darlin'
I Get Around
I Know There's an Answer (with Terry Sachen)
I'm Waiting For the Day
Kiss Me, Baby
Please Let Me Wonder
Wouldn't It Be Nice
Wild Honey album (9 of 11 )
And on, and on...

That is just false to assert that there is not an analogous composer lyricist team, in existence for decades, as between Brian and Mike.  Even going back to some of the C50 interviews, they discussed openly the free flowing working relationship.  And their work predated The Beatles.

(http://www4.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Mike+Love+2013+Hong+Kong+Sevens+Day+2+mKeXGbGzN4gl.jpg)

FUN FALLACIES ABOUT MIKE LOVE

* Sees the world as a series of ones and zeroes.

* Able to change color of shirt depending on surroundings.

* Spends every waking moment planning on how to be a judge on a teevee talent show.

* Not actually very good at expressing the human emotion of love.

* Directed "D.C. Cab" under pseudonym.

(http://www.musicman.com/00pic/7076.jpg)

 * Spends at least 3 hours a day meditating,  yet 4 hours a day coming up with ways to sound like an insufferable asshole without a working mouth/brain connection. Oh wait.

* Outer layers of skin actually crystalline cybernetic-crustacean power armor capable of recharging when left on hot rocks in the sun and thinking about writing the hook to Good Vibrations.

* Entire career based on RhymeZone beta testing program.

* Apple juice jug? In fact, his own piss... a practice he returned to frequently during his cyclical spells of "tainted Wilson blood."

* Only occasionally allows a drop of condescension to dribble into how he says the words "Cousin Brian."

* Dead since the fabled "Summer of Love," actually. He called it an "...eerie symmetry and total drag" at the time before drowning in his own vomit in a seedy motel in Lancaster.

Collect 'em all!

It wouldn't be the first time Brian was "advised" on something. Wasn't BWPS something his wifeandmanagers thought would be a good idea? Was it Brian's wish to resurrect the Sweet Insanity tracks for GIOMH? Did Brian even select the songs that he would produce/record for What I Really Want For Christmas? Was the Disney album a project that Brian ever, ever had any interest in doing? I'm not suggesting that everything Brian did was forced upon him, but I am suggesting that OTHERS might be driving the projects, and decisions are being made for him, then "sold" to him.

There is a very good chance - not definite - but a chance that Brian was being prompted and advised on how TWGMTR should turn out. Maybe Mike did in fact have an initial agreement with Brian about the songwriting/composition of TWGMTR, only to have that agreement nixed when it came time to record the album. Maybe Mike let it slide or didn't protest vociferously because he didn't want the reunion to fall apart. Is it possible, just possible, that Brian liked "Waves Of Love", or at least thought it had potential, but somebody was in Brian's ear saying, "Al's been pushing this song. We don't want it on the album. If Al comes around trying to sell it to you, don't mislead him..."

So now Mike is claiming (I think) that somebody kept him from working with Brian. Maybe Mike is right, he certainly would know, he knows the inner workings that we don't. We're not supposed to. All we know is what we read in interviews, and people will only let you know what they want you to know, or what they are trying to protect - like their relationship with a Beach Boy.

Any musician of Brian's stature is advised and managed. That's not the issue. The issue is whether or not we agree with Brian's decisions to take the advice or not.

Brian is an adult and not an idiot. If we truly feel as though TWGMTR suffered from lack of ML co-writes, then let's blame the producer of the record. But I seem to recall Mike's contributions being lambasted by both fans and critics.

So perhaps there was way too much of Mike on the album.

Mike is by far Brian's most successful co-author.

Brian has been telling Mike since Thanksgiving 1998 that he wants to write with Mike. Brian says a lot of stuff so not sure what the problem there is but I don't think it is an unreasonable expectation of Mike since it has been Brian's idea. Mike is a team player and he lumped the disappointment of Brian not following through and got the job done. Now he apparently wants to try it again but more like Brian led him to believe it would be and without a third wheel between them.

If you think any NEW B. Wilson/M. Love compositions would sound like M.I.U., KTSA, and Summer In Paradise, then yes, it might be a mistake to even attempt the songwriting partnership. Or, the type of songwriting that was done on TWGMTR - giving Mike the songs; come back later after you write some words - is not to the fans' liking, then yes, forget about that, too. And, I understand how one might want to compare any potentially new B. Wilson/M. Love compositions with the most recent stuff -  even though it was 35 years ago. BTW, I like the post-1974 BW/ML songs. They didn't sell, but I liked them.

Anyway, is it fair to think or suggest that new BW/ML songs could harken back to the great, timeless, classic songs that those two guys came up with - not the songs that were written after Brian had his serious mental and physical problems? I'm sure Mike is thinking and talking about the good ones. But, we're quick to point out M.I.U. and Summer In Paradise. You see, Mike will never admit it, but he was only as good as the material Brian gave him to work with. When Brian was on the top of his game, he and Mike wrote some incomparable stuff. When Brian wrote subpar songs, Mike wrote subpar lyrics. If, as many fans are suggesting, Brian has be experiencing a renaissance in songwriting and creativity, maybe Mike could compliment the songs with some good lyrics.

I don't think that will ever come to fruition. Brian used to seek out collaborators mainly for their lyrics. Yes, some collaborators provided arrangements or a part/riff here or there, but the song and the music was overwhelmingly composed by Brian. Now, Brian uses collaborators for much more than the lyrics. He now relies on his collaborators for the music much more than he did in the past. I would think that is affecting Brian's decision as it applies to working with Mike in the future. Brian has been choosing songwriters and musicians as collaborators.

There is a difference with Brian, and everyone knows he needs extra help that other people don't. He had a conservator at one point, and at one point that person was his wife. Even though he was legally freed of a conservator years ago,  there are people who will overrule him and "persuade" him for his own good, I'm sure.  It's hard to know what Brian really wants because he both has those people to advise him and also uses those same people as a shield against criticism for things he wanted himself. It can be hard to see which person is behind the final decisions that are made.

Your point as stated was that Thomas didn't have anything to do with Mike & Brian not sitting down and writing, and my response was, maybe you should consider that, perhaps, he did. Both sides of the argument and all that.

As someone said earlier, Brian isn't an idiot. He's had his problems in the past, as everyone here undoubtedly knows, and some form of help is great for him. However, I think there is too much help and it really stifles Brian. The people that surround him should really be more for support than to police him, as that's what seems to happen. It's a real shame that Brian can't fully be himself without somebody whispering in his ear to do something else.

If it is true we all owe a great debt of gratitutde to Mr. Thomas, based on the songs they did write together for the album.

No, that's how you understood my point as stated. But then again, you think John Q. Public fans are familiar with "Ol' Man River (Vocal Section)" and "Murry the K" radio spots. So I probably shouldn't be surprised by your lack of understanding on the topic at hand.

Really? You're going to start all that again?

Bloody hell... come on mate!!

More than one definition of successful, Cam, as you well know. Certainly Tony Asher has a claim to that title if you're looking at pure critical acclaim. Van Dyke, too.

Yeah, "SweetJim", take your differences with AGD to PM's, eh?  The repetitive nitpicking bullshit is gettin' real old.

he doesn't just call it a bummer, he does elaborate on the subject and correlates it with tragedies all families suffer..... and so what if he calls it a bummer? IT IS A BUMMER! "Bummer" is not a positive word. big deal. what's he supposed to do, break down and cry just so YOU won't think he's an asshole? problem is, and he knows this: he could very well break down and you'd still think he's an asshole. if I were him, I'd say anything I could to offend such "fans"

Gettin' a little too warm here in the snake pit.

It's actually getrunken. In German.

Example: Ich hab' zuviel getrunken.

How come every thread now devolves into nitpicking over the tiniest possible misinterpretations of other posts?

Even though no new information is provided regarding the real facts of the situation at hand, it seems that some people think that by thrashing out every last hypothetical, based on their own interpretation, the truth can somehow be arrived at.

And no one is any the wiser. And it all kicks off again in another thread.

Good point! Admittedly, one I hadn't thought about before but it all makes perfect sense.

Re: the post-1974 BW/ML collaborations, I certainly do enjoy some of them, don't get me wrong, especially "It' OK", which is a huge favorite of mine. That said, stuff like "Spring Vacation" just seems very lazy and uninspired to me. Mike clearly loves the idea of being able to come up with a very simple yet effective lyric in a very short amount of time. You know, it's great when it works! And when it doesn't it really shows. I somewhat enjoy "Spring Vacation" because the music is incredibly catchy but still... Maybe they should do some TM stuff together.

Kinda a veiled joke as a certain 'scholar' on the board frequently attacks and berates posters over their grammer and spelling.

And seeing that we get little, if very seldom, REAL insights from 'insiders', we tend to attempt to analyze and hypothesize. Such is the nature of the beast.

And that is why Mike does not deserve to be writing with Brian. He got his chance and he gave us songs two of the most clichéd possible songs that could have been named in a parody thread on this board. "Beaches in Mind"? really? If that's the best he's god well maybe another album should not be on the cards.

Isn't it funny. Mike had issues with a perfect Beach Boys tour. The type of tour The Beach Boys deserved and now he's spewing all this BS about writing with Brian.

How the hell does he have defenders on this board.

Because he's the greatest.

Was the greatest

It's spelled grammar.

Ha, thanks. But that was a baited hook...

:) I meant no harm.

Nah, he still is. Always will be. Them gangstas ain't got nothin' on the Doctor of Love.

I know, no harm taken :-D

No, I'm not talking about our personal opinions. I'm talking charts and sales which is what the industry [and Brian and Mike] use to quantify success.

Lord, really?

So that means we're in the never-never land where Beach Boys Concert is a more successful album than Pet Sounds? I understand that popular success has a role to play, but critical and fan appreciation have their meaning and role to play, too.

You can't understand the band, and you can't appreciate them fully, without taking both into account.

He's coked out, but he does seem really lucid.

He is certainly happy sounding. His speaking voice sounds undamaged at this point.

He sounds a little older, but that's not surprising, as he was 33 at the time.

No, it's spelt grammar.

It wasn't intended as a dig at AGD, in fact the opposite. Those who do know stuff are constantly having to repeat themselves because... no one is any the wiser after all. Personally, i feel we're lucky to have those who do know so much posting here.

And correct spelling and grammar are cool, man :)

Not in American English.  :P

Re: The '74 Brian interview with Jim Pewter. Brian came down to the KRTH studios in his bathrobe. He'd obviously been partaking. When Jim asked him to talk about the Smile/Heroes & Villains period, he walked out of the studio for awhile and probably did another line (or smoked a doob) then came back and Jim changed the subject. He's obviously a little wired and pretty happy in the interview. I received my tape of it not long after the interview, around 1975, and I remember a few fans commented at the time that he still had his 60's voice still pretty much intact but he was weezing a lot and it was starting to change. Probably from doing massive amounts of coke at the time. Plus he was gaining a lot of weight. The way he was saying some of those things during the interview - it's like the mirror and blade were close by and he was one happy pup! Plus he had the munchies big time for some chips and dip!

"Spelled" and "Spelt" can be both be used. I think "spelled" is the preferred use of grammar these days.

Remember the picture posted on Brian's facebook page of the dinner her threw for band members and crew during the tour. Mike and Bruce were conspicuously missing.

Says it all really

Were Mike and Bruce in London on September 23?

BBC2 gig was the 24th so were pretty close.

But what about the 23rd?

Absolutely.

Even discounting the day tripper fans, there is still strong Mike Love dissent amongst the ranks. It's simply because he conducts himself like a twat.
The man says he wants to work with Brian and denies himself the opportunity. And we're supposed to support him?

https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/p480x480/971317_10151701118502241_1313300315_n.jpg

Saw that earlier, looks like Brian is rocking the beard again?!

Plus support Mike's ending of the real BBs so he can do shows with his solo "BBs" group.


The show with JLS and the gruffalo is really keeping demand up for future BBs reunions.... ::)

Brian wrote some of the lyrics to at least one, if not both, of the Mike co-authored songs, so he's partly to blame for the silly lyrics, too. I'm not sure why people who are mad at Mike for stopping the tour aren't glad that Mike stopped the tour, because they don't like Mike, anyways. Did you Mike haters really enjoy Mike's car medleys and monologues between the songs?  You can go to the BAD tour instead. I realize it's only a handful of dates, but Mike has nothing to do with Brian not booking a full tour. Perhaps the reasons Brian is only playing a few gigs this year would have also precluded him from participating in a longer reunion tour, as well.

My attitude towards Mike is, let the old man talk. He says the same things you'd expect him to, and I don't understand why people get mad at him for being himself. He is who he is. I wouldn't want him to change on my or any other fan's account. If you love Brian so much and believe Mike isn't good for him, then be glad that Mike is still honest enough to let Brian and his people know he's not going to change for them, either.

'Let him be who he is' is all well and good, but he's still a clueless bastard with no artistic intentions besides saying 'I'd love to write surf bollocks with Brian', right after he's talked about how Paul McCartney asked Mike Love, of Hawthorne, California, USA, for a bridge.


I bet he never told Reagan that he helped write the bridge to Back In The USSR...

Mike still helped with a bridge on a Beatles song and you didn't :)

Let the old man talk :) :)

Man, if it wasn't for the simple fact I was born 40 years later than Mike...

The tour itself made a lot of BW-superfans reconsider their opinions of Mike. He's still an effective, sometimes even great, frontman. He fills the role in a way no one else from the band does.

That's why I wrote earlier that Mike's true talents were not as a lyricist, even though he wrote some effective ones. He is the voice and public face of the band's most popular and populist material. And having him on the same stage with Brian united the sides of the band in a singular and appealing way.

However, the end of the tour made those of us who had reconsidered our opinions of Mike to reconsider again. He has many good reasons to not continue with C50, but few of them are about music or harmony or legacy or his former bandmates. And his own continued obliviousness to these points, and to the way he comes across, makes it very hard for those of us who want to like him.

For the record, Donovan still rambles on about being with The Beatles in India anytime anyone talks to him it seems... I think such a thing would get to anyone's head.

I wonder how Brian would have behaved if he'd have gone!!!!

... Instead of the wifeandmanagers we'd be complaining about the wifeandmaharishi?

Wirestone is, as usual, right on.

Let's Put Our Mantras Together!

 :lol

Brian has mentioned Paul McCartney visiting his house in 1967 several times throughout the years. He always mentions what Paul wore that day, a white suit and red patent leather shoes. Meeting Paul McCartney was a big deal back in those days. 

I got to get me a pair of these
 (http://www.gucci.com/images/ecommerce/styles_new/201304/web_full/316974_AB800_6420_001_web_full.jpg)

In my opinion, history has shown that Joe Thomas is bad for Brian's music, and Mike Love is good for Brian's music. I don't care about any of the other gossip.

In other words, "From there to Back Again" and "Your Imagination" are bad, while "Oh Darlin" and "Matchpoint of Our Love" are good.

History has shown this! It has nothing whatsoever to do with a poster's personal opinion. History!

Dontcha just love it when people do something like that ?  ;D

Yes, I greatly enjoy it when people are making you the butt of jokes  ;D

Basically

yes, let's

EDIT: Joe Thomas, the producer, in case you missed it

Only by the sort of people who use rising inflections on the end of every fucking sentence when they're speaking.

But surely everyone thinks Donovan's a bit of a twat as well...?

Look, I screwed up. I was watching 'Frasier'........ yada, yada......

Astonishing what people will admit to. In public, no less.

'Oh Darlin' and 'Matchpoint' kill 'Imagination' and Bon Jovi's tune ... or, wait, was that 'Summer's Gone'?!? what's the difference ?!?

despite prefacing my original statement with the obligatory 'IN MY OPINION ...', I still somehow feel the need to clarify:

Yes, my opinion is that history has shown that Joe Thomas is bad for Brian's music and Mike Love is good for it. And ultimately, I think the 'Radio' album will become something like BB85 or Imagination in the minds of future BB fans.  Yeh, MIU and KTSA are gold compared to this stuff. Not sayin that if Mike Love wrote the lyrics it would have been any better ... just saying that he wrote the Wild Honey album. And 'Warmth of the Sun'. and on and on and on. I just think it's strange that there's debate ... yeh maybe Mike is a dick, so are you. And so am I, and so was Dennis Wilson. and it seems pretty clear the Mike doesn't wanna deal with Brian's people and he has concerns about the big guy going on the road as much as Mike wants to, etc etc etc. and he's and old man and he's got some hang ups, don't we all. and he repeats the same stories over and over again, just like my grandpa. "We were #1 in England! We beat the Beatles! I helped Paul McCartney write that cool jAm !!!"

Anything Joe Thomas touches just sounds like trash. Mike Love is one of the primary songwriters in the history of our favorite group. I really don't see how this can be considered controversial anywhere other than the strange world of the Smiley Smile forum.

In my (not so humble) opinion, of course.

Literally no-one outside of this enclave of deranged obsessives would consider MIU or KTSA 'gold'!


(and, you know, the whole band are to blame for that, not just Mike's surf knuckledragging)

The neverending paradox.

“A tale begun in other days,
When summer suns were glowing -
A simple chime, that served to time
The rhythm of your rowing -
Whose echoes live in memory yet,
Though envious years would say 'forget.”

― Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass, and What Alice Found There

thanx

Whats the last great lyric Mike wrote? not slagging him off, just curious.

IMO His lyric writing has become extremely lazy in the last 3 decades and even earlier. Id love to see him write with Brian again with the rule that any nostalgic stuff is strictly banned.

In my opinion, I accept Mike as an essential part of the BBs live show. Doesn't mean I have to like Mike trying to run the group or boss the other members around.

Someone has to be the boss. Mike has the name, so it makes sense. Mike has always deferred to Brian in the studio, where he is the boss.

It seems this topic became another Mike Love bashing  :lol, Imagine if ML wrote an auto-biography?

Which when interpreted means it (hopefully) won't happen again. Brian has been done with surf, sand and beaches for decades while myKe languishes in the past. Why did Brian keep seeking out other lyricists when he had luHv right there? Because he wanted to move above and beyond where he had already been. And yeah, I'm slagging him off. Bash away. ;)

Das glaub' ich dir aufs Wort. :-D

Wasn't the title "Beaches In Mind" actually Brian's idea and Mike was asked to write lyrics to that title? I may be wrong, if someone knows for sure please speak up.

"If that's the best he's god" is kind of an exaggeration... ;D

What else do you expect from a bunch of cultists?

I hate to play the "I know you are but what am I?" type games, but you are aware you are probably more "fanatic" about Mike than all the "Brianistas" on this board combined. At first back in the day I thought your obsession with Mike was ironic. Then I came to respect the fact that someone was correcting some inaccurate points about Mike. But there really ain't no defending dude when it comes to the fact that he hasn't written a good Beach Boys lyric since....maybe the '70s?

And I suspect certain posters here really hitch their wagon to the Mike and Bruce train due to their brand of "let me keep all my money, screw the poor" politics. Or as hipsters with rich parents call it, "libertarianism" (since calling yourself a conservative or Republican is still considered quite lame).

I'm actually not a fanatic about any of the Beach Boys, nor am I obsessed with any of them. I am merely objective. And yes, most of my "praise" of Mike has been ironic. I like to think of myself as the anti-oldsurferdude.

It also has nothing to do with politics.

 :lol

Well played.

Except he's completely wrong.

And, I could say that this makes you a bonafide Brianista. I will say that I do have a favorite Beach Boy, but it is not Mike, but Carl. More so, I am a Beach Boys fan and totally believe that the personal and business part of their lives are their business, not mine or ours. I am way more interested in talking about releases, concerts and the workings in the studio. A lot of what is said in here is nothing more than rumormongering and just plain hate of band members, especially Mike and Bruce. While I enjoy being a member here, I am not at all thrilled with many of you who continue to behave the way that you do.  Sorry, but it had to be said.

It cuts both ways Dr.

How's that OSD? Learning about what really went on, and learning from people like Stephen, Jon, Ian, Alan Boyd and AGD is less appealing than spewing hate and spreading lies and rumors like they are facts, cuts it the other way? I think not! I'll stick to what I wrote above, thank you.

Even with you, when your not spewing the hate, you have great things to share about the band. I know we are close in age, because we experienced and lived through all of the Beach Boys career; the good times and the bad.

Give me a break. Only reason why somewhat personal and business stuff has come up is due to one of the members effectively ending the reunion. Well I guess two, but hey, I'm not so sure Bruce thinks for himself. Otherwise, I very highly doubt anybody on this board cares about the business and private lives of these guys. Except for AGD, who knows which day Brian and Mike were shooting hoops, and how many times Brian walked around the pool on September 17, 1978. But seriously, this board is about the music. Actually there is no better board on the internet as far as interesting topics, as well as knowledgeable fans and insiders who help enlighten us. And includes people like Desper, and also Stebbins and Mike Eder. And even Andrew Doe sometimes still.

And honestly, I don't think there was really a whole ton of anti-Mike Love rhetoric around here until late 2012. I mean, I remember there was a decent selection of people on here that thought him and Bruce going around as "The Beach Boys" was lame. But everybody seemed to be okay with the fact that Brian didn't wanna work with them, and that Al was doing his thing. And things could have gone back to that way again after C50 if things ended a bit more smoothly. Instead what we've learned since C50 unfortunately reinforced the notion that Mike Love has an ego the likes of which few have rivaled, and that's a shame. Because I think the man is a great singer, and has written some great lyrics (even in this millennium).

And lastly, call me a Brianista. I don't care. I personally just consider myself a Beach Boys fan, including Mike and even Bruce. But if it wasn't for Brian, I wouldn't be a fan. So yeah. Whatever.

Just the fact that this thread is nearing 9 pages of mostly Mike hate, speaks for itself. Though you yourself may claim to be a Beach Boys fan versus a Mike hater or Brianista, calling out TRBB for defending Mike was a bit uncalled for. It amazes me that no matter how Mike answers a question, people here always find some fault with what he has to say. He is entitled to feel how he feels. I think the big issue with Mike is that he cannot have a normal releationship with Brian. From what I have read, Mike was/is constantly dealing the wifeandmanagers or Joe Thomas as middlemen. This type of situation must be extremely uncomfortable and it has been going on since the Landy days. I may be way off base here, but I'd venture to say that if Brian was using the same management company as The Beach Boys Band, there might have been fewer issues. For all we know, Mike could be using the other stated issues as an excuse for not wanting to deal with issues from Brian's people. I suppose we will never know for sure.

I just don't like Mike's eyes. They're cold, like a doll's eyes.

There - I've said it.

Anyway, so anyone any idea when this article is actually going to appear in print?

And again, too! ;)

Gosh. I couldn't say because they each have their own unique charm, but when Good Vibrations went to No 1 in 1966 and Great Britain voted us the No 1 group (1) – No 2 the Beatles, No 3 the Stones – that was pretty special.

 :o Then I came home, to discover Brian was f-ing with the greatest formula that got us to top - and proceeded to blew my top.
It was all downhill from there --  This is why my Beach Boys shows are mostly pre-smile material with a little Kokomo thrown in.  ;D

And I go to bed chuckling.........

Personally I think calling out TRBB was just fine considering he called anybody who doesn't care for Mike a "cultist." Don't know about you, but that's pretty fuckin' ridiculous.

And yeah, I agree Mike's allowed to feel how he feels. And so are we. Especially when he breaks up our favorite band. And let me add, just as you say you don't like "rumor mongering" you throw out Brian's "wifeandmanagers" and whatnot. Do you know anything about that? Betcha don't! So you're pretty much basing your opinions off of the same "rumors" as the others. And it's not like anybody wants Mike to die or something (well maybe OSD). Nearly all of us think the man has done great work. And we think he could do more great work rather than treading water, if he only decided to stick with the guy who wrote the songs that made him famous.

Saying that the anti-Mike posts in this thread qualify as "hate" goes way too far, IMO. Some folks are irritated, some frustrated, some disappointed. But I've seen precious little actual hate. I think that to certain M&B partisans, the only way they can conceive of someone disliking Mike Love is for crazy, irrational, fun-hating reasons. But I'd say that most of us who are unhappy with Mike's recent actions bear the man no ill will, and in fact feel like he's made immense contributions to the band. We're just intensely disappointed with his actions, and the way in which they confirm long-term patterns of treating the band and the music like disposable commodities.


So what does Mike want from Brian that all of those middlemen are preventing? According to Mike, before the C50 celebrations, he and Brian conversed regularly and visited one another. That sounds like a relatively normal relationship to me.

It instead sounds to me that Mike is frustrated by the people around Brian because he (Mike) wants to be the one controlling and running Brian's creative life. (And why wouldn't he? TWGMTR proved that Brian Wilson songs and arrangements and the Beach Boys name can still move records.) Given that he can't do that, he now badmouths the record, the tour, and his cousin. In other words, Mike has allowed business to ruin a perfectly functional personal relationship.

And regardless of how you feel about the man, that's a pretty detestable way to act.

Also: Brian chose to marry Melinda. He did not choose to have Mike Love as a cousin.

Maybe it would be better to direct our disappointment at those who made Mike so put off after he had been led to believe certain things, had gone the extra mile, and played ball with them on their terms. Maybe the wrong guy is getting blamed for the wrong reasons.

I still think Mike has a good thing going on tour. A small tour party, plenty of gigs, a slick well proven operation that still sells tickets with little or no stress. I can think of no reason why he would want to put a spanner in the works and ruin that, C50 aside.

I never said anything one way or the other. Mike has made it clear that he wasn't happy having to deal with Brian's people during the tour and probably while recording the album. Also, I never specifically mentioned Melinda, just used the overall term. Hearing the way Brian is protected (for lack of a better word) by his people, it must be tough as a family member to get past that. sh*t, even Al has complained about that in the past 10 years or so. Tough when trying to be a unified band, I would think.

I don't know. How about not showing his band mates the door and continuing with his "small party tour"

More people...more baggage. ;)

BTW. I can see this thread heading to a 'why did Mike end the C50' discussion. Go look up one of those threads.

No one was fired. The tour ended.

Everyone who thinks they dont hate Love has frozen anger.  ;D

Playing ball "on their terms" netted Mike a great deal of money, an "executive producer" credit, and four co-writing credits on the comeback album. Going "the extra mile" meant he played bigger venues than he'd seen in years, with the opportunity for even bigger (MSG residency among them). It meant critical and fan reception that they hadn't seen since the 70s.

I understand that Joe Thomas is the scheming villain in this scenario, and the BAD tour this summer seems like a shot across the bow of the long-established BRI corporate structure. But if Mike is now ruing the day he went into the C50, only to see Brian and his evil enablers attempt to undermine his gravy train, perhaps he should have had a more magnanimous attitude after Carl's death and not made firing Al his first order of business. Perhaps he should have tried to run the band as, you know, a band, rather than an extended solo and ogling groupies project. Perhaps his first reaction to Brian releasing Smile as a solo project shouldn't have been suing his cousin over it.

If Mike feels betrayed or used now, he might want to imagine how it felt being Al or Brian or summarily dismissed backing band members over the last 15 years. That couldn't have been pleasant either.


On Mike's insistence. Which meant that Brian and Al and Dave couldn't tour as the Beach Boys anymore. Which meant that Mike and Bruce still could. I understand that technically it's not a firing. But as Brian said, it sure feels like it.

Ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...

"Pacific Ocean Blues" ?  And before that... "Only With You".

I like "Cool Head, Warm Heart" quite a bit. Not the most profound lyric, but well-crafted.

Why is this so hard for people to comprehend?

I agree with Wirestone 100% about Mike's actions since 1998. M&B isn't right when Brian, Al, and David want to tour with M&B as the real "BBs".

You must not know the politics that go on at Brother Records, Inc.

We know. We just don't care.

The C50 tour was the right way to do things. Ending it was the wrong way. The name should be retired if the five guys aren't touring. And if Mike insists on using it for his group, his license should be ended. Given the repeated confusion that his dates are causing now, across the country, this only makes sense legally. Hopefully folks are working on making that a reality now.

And yes, I realize that if the license is taken from Mike, he wouldn't tour with the other guys and be angry. Fine. The world won't end if the Beach Boys name does.

Good point sir. Writing with Brian for C50 was of great emotional import to Mike Love, and whatever writing they actually did together was highly regimented by Brian and/or Brian's people. 

Thoughts and again a plea for those to try to be a little more understanding of all sides.

I think the thing people just don't understand is that the group broke up many many years ago. Yet to get a show with Brian as good as 2012 you would have to go back to 1970, or maybe a really good night in 1976. They gave us more than anything I imagined last year. Maybe it's just that I am more interested in the things they did in the sixties and seventies than the things they have done since. Maybe I just remember that Mike was always going back on tour and I knew this in June of last year. Actually it was public knowledge, just not made a big deal.

Let it go. They aren't a band, haven't been in decades. Even the last twenty years Carl was alive they weren't a group in any true sense of the word. Mike being the Beach Boys touring band in 2013 doesn't mean a hell of a lot. This being good or bad is not even an issue anymore, it was decided a long time ago and that's how it is.

Frankly the reunion would have meant less and the standard just would not have held up. They left it at a creative peak we didn't even dream of, they did good. Only problem is (and has been for forty years) is that they played their problems out in the press where it only needed to be the 5 of them in a room discussing a group plan. It's made too complicated by those they make money for.

The LP was good, but Mike raised a good point if you just had The Beach Boys doing all the writing and producing than you would have something even better. Still I only want a Beach Boys album or tour if they all want it equally. Take any of them out and it just is not going to be what we got last year.

I look it as Mike quit "The Beach Boys" rather than having fired anyone from the group.  The way Al phrased it last week was perfect in my opinion when he said in his opinion "the door was opinion for Mike to return" or something to that effect.  I know Mike still tours his version of the band around the globe and uses "The Beach Boys" name which seems to tick some fans off to no end but personally I have no issue with it.  Perhaps it's because I see through the name and don't consider M&B to be "The Beach Boys".  So that is my mindset anyhow.  It's a shame the C50 lineup didn't carry on but from where I stand Mike isn't the villain here.  I think there is blame to be handed out both sides of the argument as to why the C50 lineup of the band isn't touring this summer.

And the other guys got a great deal out of it too. Mike has made it plain it is not all about money and his ego, if you want to believe it is anyway then you will. As I said some got their way and still wanted and got more and we are supposed to bust Mike's chops because he gave more. Let's all take a deep breath.

I find it tiring that people are saying the same things over and over that they've been saying since the Internet became commonplace and these BB messageboards have been around. There are people who read the David Leaf book and/or Brian's fake autobiography and despise Mike and think Brian is always right. Mike's supporters seem to be people who enjoy Mike's concerts without Brian, and to be fair, there was no option to see Brian in concert as a solo or a Beach Boy until 1999. Others are in the middle somewhere. In any case, I'm not sure what good it does to say what a poopy-head Mike is over and over. Brian is a genius and he was the Beach Boys. Without Brian, Mike would be pumping gas. Whatever. It changes nothing. Nine pages and counting proves that. Not one person is going to change Mike or get the Beach Boys reunion to run ad nauseum similar to what the Eagles have been doing since 1994, or the Stones, or Cher. At least they went out on a high point.

What kills your entire argument with all due respect is last year to many of us they seemed to be a living, breathing entity ready to become both an active band again on stage and in the studio.  There were many of us hoping for at least another tour and maybe a couple more records coming off the high of the C50.  Quite frankly that would be what any reasonable person would expect.  You might have felt that Mike Love was going to return to the road with M&B incarnation of the band but you were in the minority.  So from that vantage point I understand a lot of fans not being able to let this go so easily and I predict this will be a topic that will continue for YEARS (yes not months but years) among Beach Boys and Brian Wilson fans.  The reason being is because at least in my opinion many of us felt like we were sold a bill of goods last year and in the end were left holding the bag and shaking our heads.  Everything about the C50 last year centered around group harmony and the idea that the myriad of problems that had plagued this band since the passing of Carl Wilson (and maybe before) were done, settled and buried and brighter days were ahead for the band and their fans.

It was only after the tour had concluded that reports starting coming back that Mike Love was genuinely unhappy with many aspects of the C50 and may have been merely counting the days until he could get back to doing his own thing.  

The other issue and this one pertains specifically to Love that many fans have a problem with is that he continually tries to paint the ending of the C50 as a mutual decision between all the parties throwing out explanations like "set start and end date" and "we're all getting back to doing what we love" which flies directly in the face of what Wilson and Jardine have stated which essentially is Mike Love decided to carry on without them.  Now as I mentioned above I don't see Wilson/Jardine/Marks being "kicked to the curb" but for Mike Love to pass off the end of the C50 as a mutual decision between all parties is complete and total nonsense.  Wilson/Jardine/Mark would all still be involved with "The Beach Boys" in some capacity right now had Mike decided not to pull both himself and Johnston out of the group OR if you prefer to look at it as some fans do, kick Wilson/Jardine/Marks to the curb.  

There are also a ton of questions surrounding the C50 many of which the answers remain frustratingly elusive.  First for all of the vilification of Mike Love by members of this forum, it just does not make sense from a financial or business perspective for Love not to have carried on with the C50.  Therefore as I myself have stated many times now, I wonder if there was a point (or several points) during the C50 when Love tried to express his list of concerns (which he has since somewhat gone public with) with the appropriate parties and those concerns were either not addressed or ignored?  Second Mike Love in many of his post C50 interviews continues to express regret over not being able to write songs with Brian Wilson and many of us believe that the reason the C50 didn't carry on was because of an issue between the two cousins.  That being said why weren't David Marks and Al Jardine asked to join the M&B lineup of the band if the issues Mike Love had with the C50 were as Brian Wilson centric as they have been painted to be since the end of the tour?  

I think Mike would rather leave money on the table than put up with Brian and his people. He's making less money on the current tour, to be certain, but he's in charge and I think he's just happier that way. As for Al and Dave, he doesn't need them for his band or he would have them there. Bruce is enough to pass if off as the Beach Boys to all but the diehards.

I do wish Mike would actually make some new music on his own or with Brian. I don't understand why he and Bruce don't write songs together. When Mike has been on musically, he has written some excellent songs, and the most interesting part of the interview was him talking about his solo stuff. I'd really like to hear why Mike has to say, myself.

I have nothing against the man, I just think he and Brian don't make a good team anymore, but I think that if Mike would he could still make some good new music. The main reason I consider Brian's current career more legitimate is at least he's recording new stuff, even if a lot of the most recent stuff was covers.

I don't like oldies nostalgia shows with no new music. The Who did it for years and it pissed me off with them doing it as well.  Even if it sucks and doesn't sell-make an album. At least try.

Sorry to interrupt with a technicality and sorry if this has been mentioned. Mike says "When Good Vibrations went to No 1 in 1966 and Great Britain voted us the No 1 group (1) – No 2 the Beatles, No 3 the Stones – that was pretty special." You'd assume #3 was the Stones, but actually it was the Walker Brothers.

And how has he made that plain? Precisely, please.

An you know perfectly well that no one is busting Mike's chops because he "gave more." He's criticized because he blew up a one-of-a-kind reunion of a legendary group.


The notion that somehow people who are fans of Brian are so because they're brainwashed by naughty books is simply nonsense. It's perfectly easy to examine the actual historical record and draw one's own conclusions, especially in the 20-plus years that aren't covered by either of those volumes (one of which is impossible to find anyway, so I have no idea why you think it would inform anyone's message board posts).

the best post on here so far. no sryz.  :)

Darkness.

Darkness all around.

No music, no sound, not a single note in the blackness of space.

I float toward an incredible singularity. There it floats in the void, a giant floating bald head with little squinty eyes.

I understand now. I understand.

^ post of the year.  :woot

Wow I guess I don't even know how to reply. I don't agree or relate on any level to that or to others who aren't satisfied. Even to get so involved emotionally in anything beyond the music (which is very worth getting attached too) has become alien to me. I just don't care what they think of each other at any given moment.

I don't care that some people dislike Mike. There's a lot of people who are more admirable, but (in show biz especially) there are so many who are far worse. Leaf's book may be hard to find, but the viewpoint it engendered is all too strongly living. Beautiful Dreamer sees that Leaf's agenda is alive and well. More stringently "victim Brian" actually than the book ever was.  I remember when this board was a lot less divided and more centered and in agreement. Last few years we are divided because we have a lot of myth seekers and fantasists who just don't treat the group members as real people. What they want isn't reality and they are angry and won't accept this.

It achieves nothing and makes this board so much uglier  Also shocked so many put so much weight in press releases. Brian didn't sweat over a keyboard to write the Times!

We can again be a great group, centered around research and fact. Debate that is about the music more than people is healthy and fun. Lately too much guesswork and judgment is serving as reality around here.

I may be very wrong here but I feel I recently saw a copy of this issue and that the poll that the Beach Boys won was Best Vocal Group. For that reason, it would make sense that the Walker Brothers would win over the Stones. There was another category of Best Band which had The Beatles coming in first over The Beach Boys at second.

yeah you are very wrong.

Yeah, you're right. Beach Boys won Best World Vocal Band while The Beatles won Best UK Vocal Band.

 ;)

Good song but "the cold hearted slaughter of otter" does not make for a good lyric.

It certainly doesn't promote board harmony to call other members fantasists.

 >:
 :angel:

Terrific post!

Mike has a poster on his wall framed and I think there is a close-up of it in the EH doco. Not sure what award, but it is BB, Beatles, Stones.

How about "the warmhearted slaughter of otter" then?

(http://s7.postimg.org/gnyenahpn/Untitled_1.jpg)

With all due respect to Mr. Love, he is *not* the McCartney to Brian's Lennon (nor is he the Lennon to Brian's McCartney, for those of us who feel that McCartney was actually the primary musical force behind the Beatles). In terms of the songwriting, he was more of an Ira Gershwin or Hal David, which is still a great honor. It's too bad he can't see himself that way, and just sit back and relax. His place in history is assured, but it's quite ridiculous for him to expect to be venerated at anywhere near the same level as Brian Wilson. Ira Gershwin, Hal David and Tony Asher never expected equal treatment with their partners, so it's not clear why Mr. Love should, other than perhaps, as arguably the least musically literate member of the Beach Boys (having rarely played an instrument), he actually never fully comprehended just how enormously talented and unique Brian was in his prime, in relation to the greater pop landscape. If he truly believes that his contribution to the Beach Boys artistically was equal to Brian Wilson (as his Lennon McCartney analogy implies), I fear that he's never going to be satisfied with history's critical evaluation of the Beach Boys. I'm not trying to denigrate Mike. I actually feel sorry for him, because, despite all his talk of meditation and being "at peace" with his life, he seemingly can't just be at peace with his partnering role in one of THE great forces of pop music in the 20th century. Now that Mike's songwriting credits have been rightly restored, his name will not disappear from history, and in fact will be better remembered than a list of very talented but already forgotten artists to which I'm sure we all could all contribute. In addition to the important lyricists mentioned above, Mike could also perhaps take a few tips from Roger Daltrey, WHO, as it happens, is much more universally popular within the WHO fanbase, and it can't hurt (in terms of perception) that he seems to be OK with all the focus on Pete Townshend's talents, despite his own leading man role.

No, but I do know that Mike continues to use the Beach Boys name for his tour, which is pretty f**king disrespectful to his cousin and former band-mates. Not to mention deliberately misleading to the public at large.

"Evil"... "villains"... you might not want to realize it, but in real life relations there are no evil villains. The Mike "defenders" are not trying to reverse the blame, as you seem to sarcastically insinuate. They just try to have a more balanced view and see the good motives and faults of all participants. You mention several questionable things Mike has done, and I don't deny them. But didn't even Brian once remove Al from his tour too?



Hm. I was not aware of this continuality. Does he post that every week on facebook? I don't have facebook.



This kind of summarizes my own point of view.

And although I refuse to villainize Mike I still wish he'd given up the M&B show for good and stuck with the C50 configuration. Just as I wish Brian would give Mike a chance to write a few songs just the two of them.

How is it disrepectful when all BRI members are in agreement for Mike to use the name. Now, it may be misleading, but many who go to the shows either don't know the difference, or know the back story (see first sentence). Fantasists, indeed!

One more time, for those who can't - or more likely, don't want to - understand.

Mike & Bruce tour - but cannot record - as The Beach Boys because the voting members of Brother Records Incorporated decided to award them the license, on a 3-1 majority back in 1999 or so. I don't know if the license is up for renewal annually, every few years or is in perpetuity, but that no-one has seen fit to try to change or in any way challenge that situation in some fourteen years tells me that the majority are happy with the status quo which, let us not forget, provides an income to all voting members well into six figures (and if you're not Mike, for doing precisely nothing).

The voting members of BRI are:

Brian Wilson
Mike Love
Alan Jardine
the estate of Carl Wilson.

Three of those four are fine with things as they stand, and I think we can hazard a guess at which three.

Precisely, Mike has made it plain he wants to work one on one with his cousin.  Didn't blow up the reunion, reunion happened with overtime.

Don't remember saying Mike was criticized because he gave more. Mike is criticized in spite of giving more for not giving even more.  If you criticize Mike for not giving enough by stuffing his way for sake of continuing, shouldn't you also criticize Brian and Al for not giving enough and stuffing their way to keep it going? It's like everything Mike is accused of doing happens in a vacuum and the rest of the group is held to a different standard of accountability.

Oh, I'm a fantasist. I have this fantasy that one day, people will consider each members contributions without an immediate gut reaction (good or bad) coloring their decisions... that one day, people will all post here in acceptable English without the need to derail any given thread... that one day, people will take the trouble to actually read articles and interviews and not base their response on the strapline... and that certain posters will  realise they're thought of as retards because they keep posting like one. And then we'll have world peace. Maybe even candy bars.

That's my fantasy.  ;D

An excellent perspective on the subject that I know  several myKinistas won't be able to swallow.

Yeah, you're living in a dream world. :)

And free mental healthcare for Mike Love supporters.

(Just joking)

Nah, John Bull can keep the NHS. :P

AGD, Cam, Micha, Real Beach Boy etc. thank you for confirming some of us do have perspective to take a step back. The music I devote my career and free time to, biographical proven facts are cool too. Beyond that I have more things to worry about than ill thought out press releases from last fall.

No ill will really, but people who do decide to do this for a living, who are historians who value truth, don't like to work weeks for facts and then get some internet "expert" hiding under a fake name try to shout you down. It's worse when the ignorance of their words prove they didn't take the time to really ask anyone who would know beyond the world of fandom what the truth really is.

Debate is great, but answers and facts have been established on the reunion. A reunion which is over and stands the most respectable thing the group has done since not only the box set tour in 1993, but maybe Beacago in 1975. Twisted or false info continues to be spouted on this and other things and that's why the tone of smileysmile has changed.

If you love Brian Wilson and hate the Beach Boys on a real personal deep level, there are better places for you online. No ill will again, but the rest of us all would be happier if we could back to a board where facts and music, not fanboy wishes-or the evil of Mike Love, are discussed. Please forgive us non bitter or angry followers for speaking up and making the board hostile, how dare we? Seriously though, I used to love it here and still do at times. There's just been this nasty change in the air since the reunion was announced. It was great to get an influx of new interest, it sucked gaining all the disrespect and Leafian thinking.

+1

The voting members of BRI are:

Brian Wilson
Mike Love
Alan Jardine
the estate of Carl Wilson.

They might as well vote the way they do, yes its profitable and much easier than get sued again and again by Love.

Arguable points made here although it should be noted that Mike Love has more often than not gone out of his way to hand his cousin praise as a great songwriter and producer most recently in the piece that this thread is based on.  But you are correct in that Mike Love over the years has painted himself into a lot of different corners from a PR standpoint and has been the subject of a lot of negative press by people trying to vilify him while at the same time exulting the legacy of Brian Wilson.  Most of this has to do with the fact that for many years many fans and writers alike held a large grudge against Love for what they perceived to be the stomping of "SMiLE".  However, one thing that often seems to get lost in all the telling and retelling of the tales regarding that ill-fated album is that Love never had an issue with Brian Wilson's contributions to the project but the lyrics of Van Dyke Parks and Wilson's entourage of hangers on that Love believed to be encouraging his cousin's intake of drugs.  However history has told and has been repeated that Mike Love demanded his cousin "not f**k with the formula", told his cousin that he hated the SMiLE recordings and so on and so forth.  Most (if not all of) of this is often thrown at the feet of Love without any hard facts to back up any of it.

Mike Love really is in a no win situation if he is trying to win over hardcore Beach Boys fans.  While he certainly has pockets of devotion among the diehards, they are in the vast minority.  While many of us may not be blind Brian Wilson devotees, Mike Love has done enough damage (and has had enough damage done to him) from a PR standpoint where he isn't going to get the benefit of the doubt from most of the diehards as you can see by this thread.  Whether Mike Love cares what the diehards think about him or not it would be foolish in my opinion to think that he isn't at least aware he isn't going to be winning any popularity contests anytime soon with the diehards especially when he's "running against Brian Wilson".  I give Mike Love credit for being his own man and doing what he wants to do with his life and his music but anything beyond that unfortunately from my standpoint seems to be an uphill battle for the man.  Some of that is of his own creation while some of the resistance he meets quite frankly he doesn't deserve one bit.  

Facts and figures are great, but a lot of people are questioning Mike's motives and moral code. All subjective. Personally, I recognize all the positive things he did for the Beach Boys, whilst personally not finding him a particularly endearing individual. And as I've said many times, and as ML himself said in the interview, it doesn't bother him what people think of him, and that......is the thing I like about him most.

Devoting that much love or investing that much emotion into people whom you have never even met is probably unwise.  No disrespect intended at all but people are the same as they are always going to be, in every walk of life, in every fanbase and on every internet postie board.  I don't think the tone of this website has changed at all period.  It's always been a good place to get information and to gather knowledge but on the other hand it's always been an intense forum where fools aren't suffered easily and people shout each other down.  When it gets out of hand, bannings occur and topics are locked.  Judging from what I've seen on this forum, this particular thread is pretty tame as at least we are debating the issue at hand.  

That being said as I mentioned to you yesterday there are many of us who still feel there is a great deal of unfinished business surrounding the C50 which is reason one why it still remains a hot topic to this day.  Reason two is because the members of the group refuse to let it die especially Wilson/Jardine who have continually poked Mike Love in the ribs with every press release they have issued since the reunion ended.  I'm not trying to insinuate that they personally dislike the guy but it would be foolish to ignore that they at least still have their feelings bruised, otherwise why keep bringing his name up?  That being said until The Beach Boys stop talking about the issues surrounding the end of the C50, to me it's more than fair for the rest of us to continue to discuss and debate it which is essentially what a discussion forum is about.

In my opinion why you are waxing poetic over is something akin to a "Beach Boys Information Site" and while there is certainly that aspect to this forum it is not necessarily what this forum has ever been about.  In fact one of the things that has always rankled me is how many times newbies come on to this site, ask a simple question about the band and are shouted down by the regulars for some trivial reason.  So there really isn't perfection to be found either way you look at it.  That's life.

Ok you're forgiven but will you quit now and let the Love bashers alone?  


Oh cool you coined a new word! Leafian! lol.

Great post.

That whole "formula" thing is ringing more hollow by the minute to me.  Over time, it seems to be record-label driven, (especially with the "Best of" releases temporally related to Pet Sounds.) Record companies care more about money than artists' visions and satisfaction.  

The "formula" hyperbole flies in the face of the Mike's work on Cal Saga/Don't Go Near the Water/All I Wanna Do, etc. - which I think is inconsistent with that continual tired harangue. This is not a schoolyard brawl.  Or gang war.  The discussion is important to a lot of folks who were fans for decades, but in a void, in the absences of those who were/are like minded.

Thanks for the clarity about the "entities" as between C50 (Wilson-Love-Thomas) and BRI members enumerated.  This debate requires objectivity, perspective, and an open mind.  Please respect each other's point of view. This forum has some outstanding contributors, who shouldn't be alienated by all the "snark factor."

A round of frosty Smiley's all around.   :beer

My mother used to say as she raised her Justerini & Brooks, "It's four o'clock somewhere!"  ;)

It has nothing to do with being snarky. Some people cannot accept fact, even if it smacks them squarely in face. It is very annoying to continually read posts where the poster thinks his opinion outweighs any truth of facts.

Actually I like what you wrote here a lot. As far as the first sentence though I should reply.

Fair enough, Mike Love is a public figure who never has tried to be PC, or even all that tactful. When money is the thing, he says so. The new live book Ian and Jon did really opened up my eyes how honest the guy has been over the years to the press. Way too honest really. There isn't any hidden agenda with Mike, an agenda yes but not hidden.

We would all like to think we would handle fame differently than the Beach Boys, but we haven't walked in their shoes. Only Al seems to have not had real trouble with the lifestyle of being a rock and roll musician, at least at one time or another. Bring family into it and it's a whole other thing again.  My only reservation lies in when something just isn't true. For example saying that Mike did something deliberately sneaky, brutal, and scarring to the others last year, when I and the public knew in June of his plans, just seems beyond beating a dead horse.

But whose facts or whose truth?  More times that not much of what is debated on this forum at least has some element of subjectivity to it where the issue not only isn't black and white but can be looked at from several different angles.  

Absolutely spot-on, as you say over there.

The problem is though when Brian Wilson and company make comments regarding being taken by surprise by the events that transpired at the end of the C50, it does make the situation a little less clear than you put forth.  Basically if we are to take Brian Wilson (or his representatives) at their word "the fact" that the C50 had a definite start and end time was either not communicated to them (unlikely) was ignored by them in hopes that Love would change his mind and once again extend C50 activities into the fall and beyond (possible) or they are just trying to spin the story their way in an effort to get that story out to public interpreted as they themselves see it.  

Come on John, who do you think? There are quite a few here who I have named over and over again who are historians here. Some of them have posted in here today. These guys do their homework. If and when they say something incorrect, they own up to it. Because of all of those reasons I trust what they tell us.

The facts and "history" have smacked everyone.  It is the "spin," that is one-sided, notwithstanding any facts and circumstances.  And, it is mean-spirited in my view. And, needless.

That is exactly what they are doing. Every side puts their own spin on things. Time usually proves what is the truth or total bullshit.

Which is your prerogative.  I'm not trying to provoke an argument just explaining that what is usually debated almost always has an element of subjectivity to it.  That goes to all walks of life, hell why do you think lawyers make so much money?

Jon Stebbins, who is as respected a historian as anyone here, posted several times that Mike ended the reunion. His posted about the shows and albums and deals that Mike left on the table. He cited friction between Brian and Mike's wives as one of the principal causes, although I'm sure there are others. It was clearly not as simple as a pre-existing end date. That was Mike's escape hatch, and he took it. Folks who, in the last few weeks, have constantly talked about the history and objective facts of this case have ignored Jon's posts on this subject, which were frank and evenhanded as they come.

As for Mike Eder's post earlier ... I really think it's out of line to try to ask people who disagree with you to leave the board.

Anyway, here's chapter and verse, from Mr. Stebbins, back in March:





After reading that, and Mike's comments on the subject, and Brian and Al's, I think it's possible to draw conclusions about the personalities and motives involved. Many people here have done that. And they're not being haters -- on either side, really. It's just another chapter in a history of a bunch of guys who love each other but can't stand each other at the same time.

Hi John and thanks for reading my post. I should further explain as I suppose I didn't get my feelings across too clear.

As far as devoting time and emotion to people on a message board, I really do not let bad reactions or feelings  bother me so much like I had. I feel kind of removed and distanced from the whole thing if anything. This thread is OK, but when a pretty straightforward interview creates this much drama, one does have to comment is some bewilderment. The basic things on a board are always going to be the same, and it is like anywhere else. Put in my actual non online perspective, any message board is only going to mean so much. Yet I felt at one time here that there was a real open mindedness to different thoughts. Maybe a community feel, a lack of venom. I know myself I went years here feeling very relaxed and like we could agree to disagree.

I don't want "perfection", nor do I dislike new posters with basic questions. I want there to be new fans, new people to talk to. I am only talking about those who get told the world is round, but keep saying it's flat. Talk all you like about 2012, but again there are some unassailable truths (facts, events etc.) that are being willfully ignored. As we have been saying the same thing since the press releases came, maybe myself, AGD and others actually took the time to ask the right questions to the right people?  
People want publicity, spin, press, you name it. A few press agents thought going public would shame Mike into changing his mind, maybe civilized discussion would have been the best tactic. Hurt or not that Mike didn't want to go on with the tour,  the Love camp isn't the one being political here. They have been in the past, and hey Mike HAS done some things I openly said were wrong. I judge who I side with on a case by case basis. Again I simply find it amazing why tour dates known about months in advance would baffle a fan let alone insult a band mate.

One last thing, I honestly am not trying to be aggressive with anyone. I just get bored at reading the same old bickering when there are so many more interesting Beach Boys, music related, or real life things to discuss.

You use Jon's post, but nowhere do I read it was between wives. It sounds like management only to me. If Jon did indeed say wives, then I wish you quoted that piece, as well. My understanding was that wives got along for the most part. I understand there has been plenty of spin from all sides, but if what Mike says has any truth in it, he always believed the reunion was finite, not infinite. After 14 years of doing things his own way, the demands of Brian, Al & David, especially Brian's and his management, was just too much to ever run smoothly.

Jon just confirms my opinion that that they all are either guilty or blameless, not this one this and that one that. Again, the reunion happened and with overtime. If they could not agree further they all bear responsibility.  We are just not hearing so much about the other sides of the responsible so far.

It was no surprise to anyone that the C50 tour would be a finite commitment. In an interview conducted last June for the Toronto Star with all five guys--interviewed separately--Bruce told me to mark his words that the reunion would be "a one-time event. You’re not going to see this next year. I’m busy next year doing my thing with Mike.”  http://www.thestar.com/entertainment/2012/06/15/the_beach_boys_at_50.html. Which is not to say that 3/5 of the participants didn't want to go on.

Wirestone, I am cool we agree on next to nothing Beach Boys-really. But I am tired of you taking bits and pieces of my posts and twisting them. Do you really think I don't want debate? My comments today show I want no such thing as people who I don't agree with to leave the board. Do you actually read my stuff? Does anyone else here think I meant it anything like that!  

Brian Wilson has an unusually loving fan base on a personal level. He engenders much sympathy. Cool-we all have had problems to overcome, he is as good a role model there is for all who have felt overwhelmed by life or different from others (who make up just about everyone) as any. Musically he is even a better person to look up to. Still I find some of the devotion worrisome. I don't like extremes in anything. It can get so that Brian is this deity fighting against this demon Mike. When I come across that narrow of a view I have to ask if a "hater" really belongs on a board (be it fan or research based) devoted to the whole group. I don't want to ban them, just ask them to think again about what they are here for and what feelings they are trying to engender.

Oh and please don't come back quoting me. If I wasn't clear on what I meant before to you or anyone else, I sure clear it up here.

And interestingly, Al is the only one (not counting Dave) who isn't in the family. I think the family thing is absolutely integral to understanding a lot of Mike's actions over the years. If any of my family rows had been played out in public over the years, I dread to think how I'd have come across. I regress to all sorts of childish behavior during a row with my siblings.

I can't believe we are fighting over the fact that the reunion ended when it could have gone on with more shows, albums, and good PR. Who honestly wants two BBs instead of five touring? The C50 was a great experience, going back to M&B just doesn't cut it for me.

Cool stuff.  My feeling on how the situation was handled at the end of the C50 by all parties is that it has been nothing short of abominable.  "Brian Wilson fired" should've never trended on GOOGLE and I agree with you that civilized discussion between all parties perhaps regarding in a joint press release similar to the statement Al Jardine has on his website would've been optimal.  Hopefully they don't go out this way permanently but if they never do tour as a inclusive group again, at least we have the memories of the C50 tour itself.

Well, that's fine that it doesn't cut for you. I expected it from the very beginning, so what? We just cancelled each other out. It was finite from the outset. Even Jardine in many videos says "...for one last time". That tells me that they all knew that from the get go.

As has been previously stated and backed up with documented proof, Brian et al knew about Mike booking October gigs three months before they threw a collective hissyfit, so I fail to see how it was such a surprise, especially as Mike's press release (which granted didn't have the best possible timing) was issued at the express request of Brian's representative.


As also stated, my take is that because Mike had already changed his mind once and extended the tour by some 50%, Brian and the others figured he'd do it again... and were left avec oeuf sur les visages when he didn't.

As for Jon's contributions (and I wouldn't dream for a moment of disputing them - Stebbins says something happened, that's good enough for me), the list Wirestone provided changed its focus more than somewhat as it unfolded. Mike, because of events in his childhood, has a great and understandable respect for money... yet he walked away from guaranteed megabucks if C50 was extended. Ever think why he might do that ?

I remember that statement as well, I thought it sounded more like PR talk so fans buy tickets for the shows. Maybe they all thought it was finite at the beginning, but Brian, Al, and David changed their minds as the shows became outstanding during last summer. These are interesting times in BBs world....

I'm guessing because he didn't want to do it anymore, an option a faction of the band's fanbase apparently feels he has no right to. Let's be honest here, if this had been anyone other than Mike Love people would have accepted that reunited bands rarely last long and would have got on with their lives.

I'm guessing it's because he didn't have the level of control that he's always wanted throughout his career. But, yeah, he probably didn't want to because he wasn't getting as much of his way as he desired.

More like, he didn't have the level of control that he has enjoyed for the previous 14 years, or even since the 1980's.

Sure. I'm not sure how that's adding anything to what I've said. Yes, there have been points in his career that he has achieved the level of control that he has always wanted.

The levels of total control Mike Love has achieved in the BBs career have rarely been  ones of artistic and legacy fulfilling periods in BBs history.

You said "...control that he always wanted". I am bringing to your attention that he has had it for 25+ years.

I agree for the most part.

I think that the creative control he wanted and achieved throughout the Golden Age of Beach Boys hit making was helpful to The Beach Boys. But after that, yeah, there's been a lot of strange stuff and if he were half the creative person he makes himself out to be, he'd understand that he has extended himself beyond his abilities.

Not to get into a language debate, but the fact that he has had this control does not negate the fact that he "always wanted" it.

Mike wants or wanted to write more with Brian, but he has always deferred the artistic part to Brian. The control that I am writing about is control over the touring band.

From all the discussions over the past year, he gave up a lot during the C50 Tour. I'm guessing more than he wanted to give up permanently as he may have had to do if the full band stayed together.

Not so much in my opinion, Mike has always wanted BW to recreate the highs of the surf period of 1961-1965 through his "suggestions". The touring group has always focused on the surf songs and limited other hits, the concessions for deep cuts only coming after BW toured SMiLE.

I'm not and I'm the one who brought up the issue of "control."


That's pretty much my point. What else do you think I meant when I stated that he ended C50 because he didn't have the level of control that he's always wanted throughout his career?

I think I explained the difference. Attaining something you never had is quite different than giving up something you already had. In the end, yes, we are talking about an amount of control that he was unwilling to give up.

Except that I never suggested he wanted to attain something he never had - that was your incorrect interpretation of what I said based on a misreading, which I've already explained to you.

We just went through this, now read what you said, it is in bold above. You have made it abundantly clear what you meant and we are in agreement. Now, please leave it at that.

I can't leave it when you insist that I wrote it incorrectly when in reality you don't know what you're talking about.

If I said, "Throughout the 1960s, Brian always wanted creative control over the Beach Boys records" would you suggest that I was implying that he never had it during that time? If your answer to that is anything other than "no," then you have to admit that you are really out of line here.

I am only talking about touring and keeping the band together after C50. As far as recording, except for MIU maybe, Mike pretty much deferred to Brian in the studio. As we all know Brian wasn't involved with SIP, and Mike was the man for that record. Except for having issues writing with Brian like in the old days, he seemed to defer to Brian with TWGMTR. Mike has made it clear over the years that he isn't into recording, as much as touring The Beach Boys. The only control that I was addressing was strictly with the touring band.

Well, Mike's always liked a certain amount of creative control too and frequently gets pissy about the material he doesn't get to contribute to. In fact, he may have deferred to Brian with TWGMTR but it is clear that he did so begrudgingly and wouldn't want to defer like that again.

I agree with that! Though, I think Mike had more issues with the lack of writing with Brian for the new album, than just deferring control to Brian. I think if Mike could write with Brian like the old days, he would not have issues recording another album in the future. Not holding my breath. ;)

I suppose I should be a bit more clear in my use of the word "control." I don't necessarily mean Mike wants full control over everything - just that there is a certain level of control he wants. In that respect, the fact that he wasn't allowed to sit with Brian and contribute in the way he used to is part and parcel of that level of control. Though, I am in agreement with the poster who noted a while back that co-writing partnership from "the old days" is largely mythical. Yes, Brian and Mike wrote a lot of songs together but Brian was far from devoted only to Mike and from the beginning made partnerships with many other artists outside the Beach Boys sphere.

I don't get why Mike doesn't find someone else to collaborate with.  If the creative ability and desire is still there, why not work with another songwriter to put his ideas into music?

Please, just make this pain stop!

Brian did have other co-authors but it's not a myth co-authorship with Mike far outnumber any other co-author and that the most successful co-authorship is by far with Mike and most by far of the most successful hits are co-authored by Mike and Brian.  Success being defined and documented by chart and sales and not personal taste.

Brian's other non-BB collaborators, 1962-66:

Gary Usher
Jimmy Bowlles
Jan Berry
Bob Norburg
Roger Christian
Tony Asher
Terry Sachen
Van Dyke Parks

Because he wants to work with his cousin.

Because he knows BW does most of the work when they collaborate. BW is the genius, ML is just along for the ride and willing to take more credit than is due. ML's work without BW has none of the genius and craftsmanship of the collaborations of the two. BW's work with others backs up that Brian is the guy who makes the songs great.

To all concerned: Please accept my sincere regrets for posting the news clip to begin with.


TO THE ADMINISTRATOR OF THIS BOARD: PLEASE PUT THIS BEAST OF A THREAD OUT OF ITS MISERY.

Ahhhhhhh TM lad. You don't need a horoscope to tell you that a thread with the words "Mike Love" in the title is bound to end in bad karma

My good fellow - The Angels in Heaven weep for us.   Ah me...

Why doesn't he write with Bruce?  They are like best buddies and Bruce is a songwriter, isn't he?  Or at least he used to be.

Get him!  [carrying a torch]

It`s an interesting question actually. Mike co-wrote some fine songs with the other band members like Sound of Free, Only With You, Pacific Ocean Blues, Don`t Run Away, All This is That etc. It`s a shame he didn`t find another regular collaborator when Brian pulled back.

AIR...AIR...I NEED AIR...can't...breathe....make it stop....won't somebody....please...make it...stop...(fades to black)

 Brianistas don't like screwing poor people.

Believe me, you enjoy every second of this sh*t. Every thread that you have started has evolved into a contentious mess. Zen, my a$$! ;)

Screwing in the British sense?

You have the manners of a horses ass.

Who, me or Stephen?

Oh, it certainly has been noted. There's been talk. A lot of talk. I didn't want to mention it...but now....

This circular argument will die down...only to resume when Brian, Dave and Alan hit the road. While I don't expect any 'rabbits outta the hat' setlist-wise, I'm sure there will be plenty to chew over and consider.

At the end of a summer day, I'm excited over seeing what Brian cooks up for a live show. Mike's threadbare back-to-basics revue holds no interest to me. Because I KNOW better. That's why. As the saying goes, your mileage may vary.

Hopefully David Marks will put down his guitar, clap his hands and exhort the audience to get up and sing along. Oh wait...I'm sorry...different band.

I am going to the mini-tour opening show in Atlantic City. 13 days to go and counting.

As someone else recently noted, Brian's shows with Al and Dave will feature the guy who wrote VERY close to all they music they're likely to perform, the best current singer of any of the Beach Boys, the best Beach Boys instrumentalist, plus (in at least mine and Brian's opinions ;D ) the best Beach Boys non-Brian falsetto singer.  Mike and Bruce do have the original voice on most of the early stuff but it just seems odd when that group plays stuff like "God Only Knows", "Wouldn't It Be Nice", and "Help Me Rhonda", without Carl, Brian, or Al; especially in short sets like the most recent Hyde Park show. 

Brian's shows have always kinda been about "the music of Brian Wilson" and Al and Dave will probably make them seem even more like "the Beach Boys".

Well, this can't be right.

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/playlist/view/325039/Surf-s-up-again-for-the-Beach-Boys

The merda is really going to hit the fan when MIC is released and Mike Love's essay becomes public.  If it includes any hint of waxing nostalgic or poetic over the band or it's members aside from Bruce Johnston, he will be nailed to a stake by the majority of the diehards.  As I mentioned before this discussion is likely to continue for years and will probably replace the "I hate Mike Love because he stomped SMiLE" line of thinking for Beach Boys fans inclined to think the worst of Love at every turn.  They now have something new to justify (if only in their own minds) their dislike of Mike Love.

Daily Star isn't the most reputable source in the world but they do seem to ascribe some quotes to Mike Love:


I highly doubt the validity of this piece but if there is anything to it there is nothing short of bombshells galore in this tiny tight little quote here.  From Brian Wilson being the instigator as to the end of the C50 to the door apparently being open to Wilson rejoining the act.  I call bollocks but there ya have it I guess.

Edit: The more I read this piece the more it sounds like typical Daily Star writing.  They start off with what is a legitimate news story in this case the alleged sacking of Wilson at the conclusion of the C50 last autumn (even though we all know that not to be the case).  They then use the rest of the piece to ruminate and expound upon that news story, creating a new one in the process.  The headline of "Beach Boys are set to reform their classic lineup" is obviously a misleading one as while the quotes from Love indicate among other things that the door is open to work with cousin Brian again there are no firm plans (that we know of anyhow) for that to happen anytime soon inclusive of the other Beach Boys or not.  However, the quote that seems to reference Brian Wilson being the one who put a halt to the C50 deserves more investigation although given the context of where this quote was found again probably bollocks.  

That is literally the most misleading story I have read in a long time.

Seriously, have people been asleep like Rip Van Winkle for 15 years? What did they think Mike and Brian have done all this time? Skip big hits because the "original singer" on the recording wasn't there? Brian sang lead on Little St. Nick at a show I saw around 2005, to the great delight of the fans, in July! Of course they cover the core setlist.  He covers Mike's or Al's or Carl's leads.

At Al's shows, they cover GOK, WIBN, and Rhonda! They've always switched around leads.  Carl did Dennis' stuff, did Rhonda for a while; no one "owned" every song per se.

What is circular here is that any manner of argument is set forth to make Mike the incompetent villain.  It is imbalanced, not objective, and shows a "blindness" to well-sourced information.  And any theoretical "lyricist" could be brought aboard, and no one would have a commonality of experience with Brian that Mike has.  And, he is the closest thing to a brother left. And, Mike never has passed a chance by to plug his cousin's work. Several times at each show.

 If it works out; it works out. Que sera, sera!  

I hear that the weather is good in The Sandbox this time of year... :lol

Best post of all time :) :)

What about:

Getcha Back
It's OK
Sumahama
Almost Summer
Goin On?

Not Shakespeare, sure, but good, solid stuff.

Need we remind you that Daltry also beat the living F out of Townsend on at least one occasion..... Seems, being OK with such focus away from oneself can come at a hefty price....

BTW, Daltry has little choice but to be cool: he wrote, what, the lyrics to a single who song??? Nope. There's no comparing Dalty to Mike.

Sum, sum, summer Well, it's almost summer 
Sum, sum, summer Well, it's almost summer 

Suzie wants to be a lady director 
And Eddie wants to drive a hearse
Johnny wants to be a doctor or lawyer
And Linda wants to be a nurse 


The man is a genius!   :rock

Yeah, well Almost Summer is a great song and the lyrics flow like butter and sound fab when sung...

See, this is where the Brianistas always lose the rest of us.... We can talk and talk and talk about how anything having to do with Brian is "artistic" and important, and everything to do with Mike is "commercial" and business minded, blah blah, but  what the Brianistas will never ever ever begin to accept that there are BEACH BOYS fans who like, dig, LOVE Milke Love's work. Yes, all the cheeseball stuff that's driving you guy's hairlines even back farther than Mike's. It's OK (pun intended) to love and worship Brian for being Brian and to love and worship Mike for being Mike! These two guys ARE the Beach Boys, by and large, as far as history, charts, popularity, big bucks is concerned, and the world is all the more awesome for it.... There's more than enough Love to go around. Brian and Mike are awesome together and in their own ways, and we only have like, pshhh, a piddling 50 years of earthshattering recorded work that proves this. It's Ok, It's Ok, It's OK.... Get out there and have some fun and quit making the world black in white.

No, we accept it. We just don't think you have any taste.

and we think you choose to view the greatest band in the history of music through a tiny and narrow lens and with the sound turned way way down.

Jeffrey Foskett IS the 10th Beach Boy. (Glen Campbell and STAMOS not included) Yeah, I'm a Foskett fan.

What?!! Wrong thread???!! How did I get here?.......  >:D ::)

The song,, I find annoying. The start of Mike's obsession with sun, fun, beach songs. Mike has written some great lyrics for sure! I just find these insipid.

A much better song is "It's a Beautiful Day", though the lyrics aren't particularly noteworthy.

Well, it will be interesting to see where this goes.

And if those indeed are really Mike's quotes. Especially about how "he and Brian didn't write anything together" for the last album. Since uh....THEY DID! Ya know, the second single and two other songs that include a line apiece about "Good Vibrations" and "Fun, Fun, Fun" respectively.

I always thought those lyrics in the song 'Almost Summer' were related to the characters in the movie 'Almost Summer'. I never saw the movie but I bought the soundtrack. I really like the 'Celebration' albums. The Beach Boys should have released that material.

Just like McCartney needs Lennon, Love needs Wilson. Two worlds meet and it's magic. Remember BB50? It's sad that things can't get worked out.

I'm going to see Brian, Al and David this summer. Too bad Mike and Bruce won't be there. It would be.....

Nice try, but no cigar. The reason why the debate IS circular, is that kernels of truth exist amidst the vitriol. Never said Mike was incompetent...rather, quite competent (and perhaps devious as well). But be that as it may, it doesn't matter.

Beyond the fuzzy wuzzies of family, brothers and all that stuff, Mike doesn't have the creative gift he once did. Neither does Bruce. Years of 'sweatin' to the oldies' has wrenched it out of them. Another lyricist CAN provide a jolt, a spark, a catalyst to Brian (ala Scottie Bennett in TLOS). Mike couldn't have written those lyrics. No way, no how. He just doesn't have it anymore and neither does Bruce.

They is done.  Thank God we've still got an excited Brian Wilson in the studio. Que sera, sera indeed.

Bah-Doom-Boom! :drumroll

Two things that stood out to me...

1. is Mike Love Not War or some of his solo stuff going to be released? that's kind of how I read it.
H

2.He's working on a book. OOOOh! That will be controversial.

Those are indeed the 2 most interesting comments in the interview...and hence the two things that most posters on this board couldn`t care less about.  :)

And this strain of Brianista will defend anything and everything Brian farts out as pure genius while declaring that other folks who have contributed mightily to music history are "done" ....

I'm so sorry they don't hand out awards for message board blathering.

Bah doom-boom on me who enjoys music that put several kids through college because a couple angry nerds think it somehow hurts precious Brian...... Pathetic.

The movie version has almost entirely different lyrics, that are decidedly about the characters therein in the third verse. First verse is about some dudes called Alan, Brian, Carl & Denny. The lyrics to the released version are totally generic.

You honestly think Bruce Johnston has anything left to offer creatively in 2013? Come on Pinder. Dude hasn't released a new solo song since the '70s. There hasn't been a new Beach Boys song written by him since 1992. And even though he had a few "new" compositions on a Doris Day album a year or two ago, they were recorded in the '80s! And his offering for the latest Beach Boys album was a rerecording of a song of his from the mid '80s.

So yeah, maybe he has a bunch of sweet songs tucked away at home, but I sure doubt it. He hasn't been creatively active in over 20 years. So yeah, creatively I'd say he's done. Finished. Love to see him prove me wrong though.

And Mike, well...he did record a bunch of solo stuff earlier in the '00s. But only three songs from that project have come out. If he's so proud of his work he should release it, even if that means pressing up some copies to sell online and at shows, and having a download version. He's not gonna get a solo deal with any label that matters. But yeah, I hope he puts some new stuff out. I'll get it in a second. He also mentioned First Love. I'd buy that too. Even if they put Looking Back With Love I'd probably get that too.

See the thing is yeah, Brian is by far my favorite Beach Boys and he obviously still has the most to offer creatively, by far. But if Mike and Bruce wanted to show they are still creatively relevant they should do something about it.

Well, ya know, Brian has the name which he has earned, which people prop up to the detriment of anyone else who happened to be in the same band.... If Mike or Bruce had teams of "caring" people who would carry them into the studio and stand back in awe at any three or four chords they managed to paw out as "pure genius" it would probably motivate them to do something about it, but instead they have oceans of assholes tearing them apart 24/7. If I were in their shoes I'd do nothing whatever other than exactly what I could to piss these people off to no end.

I mean what exactly has Brian done since the 70's that is so freaking genius? Nothing! He has one somewhat decent solo album, a couple embarrassing albums, a re-tread of old material, and one other somewhat decent album, and a compromised attempt at a proper Beach Boys album.... And this is a guy who has everyone rooting for him: all the goodwill in the world.... I love Brian as much as anyone else, but I will not sit here and pretend he's laid golden egg after golden egg over the last 30 years just so I can feel better about bashing Mike and Bruce...

I don't get exactly what you're trying to get at here. Are you suggesting that Brian didn't earn his reputation, because from where i'm sitting he pretty much continued to contribute really great material to the band throughout his entire tenure with them, or are you suggesting that a guy with a long history of mental issues shouldn't be allowed to be in a somewhat "safe" (for lack of a better word) environment while he's working. Both of those seem pretty unreasonable. I mean Mike did some great stuff with the band too, but he also was responsible for Summer In Paradise as well, so it's not like people don't have legitimate reason do dislike a lot of the work he's done in more recent years.  


I think you and I may have slightly different tastes in music.

Brian Wilson was indeed a mixed bag, with several  fantastic tracks but with several pretty awful ones as well.

I wouldn't call imagination embarassing, since its main sin is just being boring.

GIMOH has a few good tracks on there even if the thing really doesn't work on the whole

and TLOS, Brian Wilson Reimagines Gershwin, and In the Key of Disney are all really solid albums.

And with that comment, you have jumped the shark. Surf's up - watch out for the sharks! Sheesh.

Notice something here; I never called his post '88 output pure gold. Quite the contrary. But what I have said is that he's on a creative roll from TLOS on (I'm also including the bonus tracks, such as the Bacharach session, Message Man, Something Good, etc.). If you don't feel that, well...you're in the minority. And suddenly I'm the pessimist! Double sheesh.

What's going on with Brian nowadays is akin to Dylan's resurrection from Time Out of Mind onward. Ditto for McCartney and Flaming Pie.

Um, no...... Nothing Brian's done (since 1972, frankly) can touch Time Out Of Mind, Love & Theft, Modern Times, Together Through Life, or Tempest (seriously) ..... Not even close..... The fact that you could even suggest so is evidence of pure, blinded-by-the-light hero worship of the silliest sort.

Sumahama's 10 times better than anything Brian's belched out since 1979.  And I highly doubt I'm really in the minority. Folks at basement Brianista meetings will no doubt never admit it, but I'll bet top $$ most fans will take MIU, KTSA, LA, BBS85, SIP (well, maybe not SIP) 15 Big Ones any day of the week over any Brian solo stuff.....

 :wall

To paraphrase the great Joe Pesci, you're a funny guy Pinder. Funny like a clown!

Don't worry though...I plan to see Brian, David and Al stumble and bumble their way through their concert at Stage AE in Pittsburgh. I'll come home with a smile on my face, and I will share my glow with internet-land. This will no doubt bring you much sorrow.  ;D

Hey, I'm going to see them at The Greek Theater!!!

I love all these guys!!!!

I'm just trying to point out that there is an alternate opinion to be considered. Marginal, yes, perhaps, but no less valid.

I wish Bruce would write something again. He is very overlooked as a songwriter by Beach Boy fans.

PS. CD issues of First Love and Looking Back With Love would be really cool.

I don't think they wrote together like, in the same room. I think that's the qualifier. Well, that, and the fact Brian wrote more lyrics than Mike did on the album.

Looks like the quotes are making the rounds

http://www.tv3.ie/entertainment_article.php?locID=1.803.810&article=107796
http://www.rte.ie/ten/news/2013/0708/461200-beach-boys-wants-brian-wilson-back/

All just recycling the same few sentences it seems but it's interesting this is a thing at the moment in the media.

Bravo! That is the difference! The Touring Band "regulars" (concert goers) almost always see Brian, Al and David, but the "exclusive Brian fans" don't/won't see the Touring Band, as though it was "beneath their (pseudo) artistic dignity."  And, I think they lose part of the whole music experience, to their detriment, because they might not see the "group dynamic" of switching "leads" because as a "solo" artist, Brian did most of them.  The BRI model set forth is the closest BB concept since "three brothers a cousin (and "friends".)

As far as Thomas goes, I try to find something redeeming in almost everything.  (A "spillover" from teaching sometimes aggravating and "challenging" children, I guess.)  Even Stars and Stripes, takes a different vantage point of the music and provides insght from "greats" like Willie Nelson or Tammy Wynette (unreleased In My Room) on Sounds and Stripes I.  And video of Carl that is now, of course, priceless.  And, it puts a "lens" of sorts from another group of well-regarded music professionals, who were at the top of their game.  What do they think of the BB music?  It is an "open mind" that gets a broad spectrum knowledge base of their history and context and not a smaller "Brian-defined" window. Or a perception that it is just Brian.  He wrote for voices, those of that "whole band."

And, I like Bennett and Sahanaja, too. My sense is that they/ he (Scott B.) "got" the whole BB experience at C50, while climbing on that piano "surfing." These guys and Melinda really supported Brian, from the beginning of his playing publicly for about 15 years, and getting solo recognition, with SMiLE, and the Kennedy Center award, until he was "ready" for C50 and reinforced by the fan response. Prior to this, Brian always disavowed being a BB. Until C50. And it might have triggered a concept of "permancy" of music model which was not part of the planning.  And everyone knew it was an "event" with a beginning and end. 

People can diss Mike til the cows come home and he is arguably still the primo BB lyricist. Get over it. Please.  ;)

Do you mean this quote, "The anniversary tour was originally 50 dates, and got extended to 73. At that point Brian said: 'No more dates for us, please'".

That quote can't be right. It was Mike ALONE that ended the reunion tour. That quote can't be right. It was Brian Wilson who decided he wanted to be a Beach Boy again, who wanted to continue touring after 73 dates, who released a press statement saying he "was bummed". That quote can't be right. Mike must be lying. I guess Brian will come out with another press release and set the record straight, that it was Mike alone who ended the reunion.

"Um, no...... Nothing Brian's done (since 1972, frankly) can touch Time Out Of Mind, Love & Theft, Modern Times, Together Through Life, or Tempest (seriously) ..... Not even close..... The fact that you could even suggest so is evidence of pure, blinded-by-the-light hero worship of the silliest sort."

Love the irony, even if you didn't intend it. Dylan hit gold with Love and Theft - a great album, but since then, he's been doing it by numbers. Tempest is a sham. A little faux-Crosby crooning, a little blues, a little boogie and a snootful of Americana set to some desperately repetitive musical phrasing (and don't get me started on that song about Lennon. That alone must have shifted thousands of units...). Artfully leaked and promoted by Sony-Columbia who were telling us how great the album was before it was released so dissent at your peril. I've seen Bob live numerous times, way more than than I've seen BW/the BB, and I have no problem with the voice - not in the studio anyway, but he's treading water as far as his recorded stuff goes.

I have to side with Mike here. It has got to suck to be handed a backing track and told to write good lyrics for it. Anyone who writes songs knows it's a lot easier to sit at a piano and start from scratch - you have the option of changing the chords, tempo, to make the lyrics fit the mood of the song. I was one of the whiners who blamed Mike for the crappy lyrics on TWGMTR, but now knowing they didn't write together you can't really blame him.*

Edit: not saying you said any differently, just stating my opinion.

Actually, I was referring to the headline. No need to get prickly. I haven't posted on here enough for you to know what my view of Brian is.

You are absolutely right, but this is Mike that you are talking about here. According to some people, being thrown a few completed compositions should suffice. For me, the Joe Thomas comment in the article is the most telling piece in it. I think Mike fully expected to sit down with Brian and write from scratch. To make an album mostly consisting of new material. As it turned it out, it was nothing more than new vocals over previously recorded old tracks.

He's been bragging about writing the lyrics to Good Vibrations in the car on the way to the studio for how many years now? Does anybody think that song would've been vastly improved if they worked on it together from the ground up?
 

Suppose he doesn't ?  Then what ?

Excellent point, and am greatful that myKe did not sit down and write TWGMTR with Brian from scratch. No doubt it would have contained even more trash similar to Daybreak Over The Ocean. ::)

That's one song, big deal! He and Brian came up with Fun, Fun, Fun in a cab, but they were together. Again, I think Mike had expectations that the bulk of the new album would be new stuff, written by he & Brian together. You know, we beat a dead horse in these threads. It seems that no matter what is said on either side, it just keeps going around and around. Taking Mike at his word here, as Brian has never really addressed it, it seems he was sold a bill of goods when he & Brian made plans for the new album. I may be way off base, but from that has been written about over the past 9 months tend to lead to that conclusion.

The guy's compositional process involves banging away at riffs and "feels" for months at the piano. You think that's going to happen with Mike Love in the room? You think Mike Love is gonna wanna be in the room to listen to Be My Baby for the 30th time that day? I can imagine he's got better things to do with his time!

If Mike wants to be the Beach Boys on stage, why not toss the big guy a bone and let him and his shadowy organization of constantly-fired puppetmasters and collaborators work the studio albums? Pop in after touring Japan and lay down some vocals. Rewrite some Joe Thomas. Sorted.

If Mike doesn't want to be in an actual functioning band with Brian so he can be the big deadeyed fish in a small pond, it's a bit rich to whine about not being in the same room writing songs. Maybe Brian likes a leaner, meaner songwriting operation where he can be the boss. Snicker.

I can'r take anything you say about Mike as anything more than Trolling or just plain hate speak. You couldn't even convince me that Mike is bald and sings nasally. ;)

I don't really know. But if Brian has made music that way his whole life, then Mike knows exactly what it takes to write with him. TWGMTR was not the first album that the two wrote together for now, is it?

But Mike is creatively bankrupt and Brian knows it. The best work the two could do these days would be "MIU" caliber because Mike is not honest with himself and forces out beach songs that have no moral or emotional bearing behind them. Such emotional bearing is what made the early songs great, not the beach,cars, and schools mentioned in them.

Plus, Mike keeps burning this horrible incense that says will "enhance creativity" but kind of smells like burning hobo.

I think they need to push their antagonism even further and if a new album is ever proposed, it has to be composed in a steel cage with the two of them trapped in it around a giant fake piano with a synthesizer in it. Fresh designer shirts and food shoved in thru a slot. Assorted weapons and a dogeared copy of "Wouldn't It Be Nice." A plastic palm tree for inspiration. A set end date of six months with the entire process streamed on the web at... oh, Beach Boys Central. Color commentary by cutrate celebs.

Sean O'Hagan? Don Was? f*** that sh*t. Clearly I'm the right producer for this project.

Yeah i t's fairly obvious that you can't handle much of anything that you don't totally agree with. Even worse, you're one of those dreaded, thin skinned myKinistas that luHv to drag out one of  the most overused terms on the board. You'll feel a whole lot better when you get out there and see your heroes, myKe and Br00th this summer for the 33rd time.

YES!

When Carl was singing Rhonda and Al was singing Brian's stuff, etc. there weren't two separate oldies acts with different members competing for the same live audiences.  There was one BEACH BOYS.  They were still an active band at the time and mostly a democracy, with all the autonomy and "right" to play whatever they wanted.  Mike and Bruce might be “the Beach Boys” now but the band is very different than they once were and I think their sets should reflect that.  Likewise, I think Al's solo show should have focused on pretty much all of HIS Beach Boys lead vocals and/or productions, peppered with just enough of the early hits to keep the casual fans interested.

Using another band as an example, Styx’s Tommy Shaw and James Young have enough songs between them to fill a whole show but still perform most of Dennis DeYoung's concert staples.  I think it's disrespectful to him and the fans to keep structuring the setlists like nothing’s changed (especially since they fired DeYoung).

On the other hand, I feel the Monkees do it right.  In 1986, when the three Monkees reunited for the first time without Nesmith, the set was comprised of a bunch of their songs, with only one original Mike song, done to acknowledge his contribution to the group.  When Peter Tork quit the tour in 1999, Dolenz and Jones returned the following year with a setlist that reflected his absence:  Most of Tork's songs were cut and replaced with more songs originally sung by the guys who were still there.  And when Davy Jones died and Mike returned to replace him, they dropped all but one of Davy's song (which was done as a tribute to him) and replaced them in the set with songs from Mike. 

When Brian performs, VERY nearly ALL of the music his band plays was originally composed or arranged for the Boys BY BRIAN.  Some of those songs were originally sung by him and some weren't but those that weren't WERE either composed, arranged, and/or produced by Brian.  I don't think it's weird for Mike to play stuff like "Good Vibrations" or "Darlin'" because while he didn't sing lead, compose, arrange, or produce them, he DID write the lyrics.  His role in those particular songs was as important as Brian's and even more important than Carl's.  I just think it's "wrong" for him to structure the setlists like it's the same Beach Boys it's always been. 

Another thing is that Brian just recently started utilizing other lead vocalists in his shows and even when he does it, NO ONE in the audience is EVER going to assume that Jeff or Darian are ALSO Brian Wilson!  Mike on the other hand presents his shows as being performed by “the Beach Boys” and sings his old background parts on some songs while (extremely talented) ringers do all the heavy lifting.  I'm not saying it's not his right as the licensee of the Beach Boys name in regards to touring.  I just think it feels like they're trying to put one over on the audience.  And now that there's two "name" groups out there (the Beach Boys and Brian Wilson) competing for the same audience, I think they should focus on what makes each of them unique.

Can't tell if sarcasm...but to those who have expressed similar opinions:

Given that Brian has worked his best material when sitting at the piano with his collaborators (Van Dyke Parks, Tony Asher), is it really that outlandish that Mike would want to sit at a piano and work with him?

Perhaps Mike didn't want to be in an "actual functioning band" because he wasn't being treated like he was in an actual functioning band (as far as creative collaboration goes)...why would he want to stick around that environment?

Personally, I dislike Mike's nostalgia BS and I'm glad he's not working with Brian anymore. But some of you guys need to look at this from all sides.

Is that how he did it, really? Heroes and Villains seems to have been a song way before Van Dyke was involved, and the same can be said about Tony Asher and You Still Believe in Me and Wouldn't It Be Nice. My thinking was that Brian typically had the basic music down before the lyricists got involved but I really don't know what the process was.

It's not outlandish. I just don't think he is capable or actually interested in doing it beyond bleating about it in interviews. I really can't blame him either, it's one thing to do that in your 20s but I'd imagine you get pretty stuck in your ways by their ages. They both have significantly spoiled, rich guy comfort zones. I don't see what's the problem with writing lyrics to BW backing tracks. Jesus, what a gift. What a fun technical challenge for a songwriter and what an almost miracle to be even a possibility in 2012-3. Not enough, Mike?

And you want to own the name and rule the touring band? Stalin of the Studio meets the Sultan of SeaWorld. FIGHT!

I have seen Mike & Bruce all of one time. A 2006 Christmas show. Now, I will be seeing Brian, Al & David on July 20th in AC. I have seen Brian at every visit to the Philly area, except for two shows. The difference between you and me is that I take a fair look at all factions. I was/am always a Beach Boys fan, first and foremost. I always agreed with Dennis' statement that the music was the real star of the band.  I fully understand that they are as much a business as they are amusement. One day you will grow up to be an even older surfer dude and will hopefully understand those things too. :)

Seen Brian 20+ times, and he's been everything from jaw-droppingly superb to seriously not wanting to be where he was, i.e. on stage, performing.

Seen Mike & Bruce in 2003 (OK), 2004 (truly great), 2008 (utterly outstanding) and 2011 (circumstances precluded any meaningful judgement, but damn, it was fun).

Point being, my judgement - and that of many folk posting here - rests on actually having seen both groups and not on any grammatically challenged expression of distaste formed without any such experience. I've little if any doubt that OSD is as much of a complete idiot in real life as he elects to portray himself here, but before stating this as a fact, I'd have to meet him first. 30 seconds should be sufficient.  ;D

Two separate matters under discussion  : 1) the touring band, and 2) the new Beach Boys lp that could of, should of been.

Speaking now only of the album : Brian is working on a lot of new material, enough he thinks for 3 lps. At least one of these lps he wanted to be a Beach Boys album. Mike turned down this offer, for whatever reason.

The boys are now in their 70's. This opportunity will almost certainly never arise again.

This is a Beach Boys board. We're fans. We might have had a new Beach Boys album. Mike nixed it. Why is it so unreasonable to criticize Mike for, in essence, breaking up the band one last, final time? Isn't that our right as fans, without being accused of trolling or of committing hate crimes?

I don't hate Mike. He's contributed greatly to many classic songs written with Brian. I even like some of the songs he's written on his own, or with Terry Melcher. But he's just ended the recording career of one of the greatest bands of all time, and I don't like it.

They need to show us on the doll where David Leaf touched them.

 :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

If what I have been stating here in this thread is even somewhat correct, then Mike shot down a new album because he didn't want a repeat from last year. My take is that if the right circumstances present themselves in the near future, we may see another Beach Boys album. Really, only Brian & Mike can answer that question, together.

He also had input in the music.

A surprisingly strong album that was also a pretty solid commercial hit.

Except that... he hasn't. Both he and Brian have stated repeatedly that the door is open to a new album project. Frankly - and this is hardly a secret - I hope there isn't one. Lightning rarely strikes the same place twice.

In what way?

Tony Asher explained in the TLOS documentary (or maybe BW Pet Sounds live docu), how the process worked for him - it was clearly more beneficial for them to write side-by-side. Brian had the music composed beforehand*, but he'd still sit at a piano with the lyricist - making it easier to change tempo/melody/chords to fit the lyrics better.

*edit: barring the songs that were recorded beforehand, specifically YSBIM.


Not capable? Not interested? What makes you think that?

Nothing wrong with writing lyrics to BW backing tracks. But when you're in a 50 year old band, and you're writing an album, you'd think the two most famous people in that band would, ya know, get to sit down and write together. But yeah, Mike should be thankful he got a backing track ::) some "band" when these guys can't even write together.

I apologize for any misunderstanding, Cyncie. My post had nothing to do with your opinion, or what your view of Brian is. My post was directly related to Mike's quote, and what it SHOULD mean to people who are blaming Mike solely for "ending" the reunion tour. If you believe that Mike is telling the truth, then Brian Wilson also wanted the reunion to end when it did, which I think is very, very significant. It would mean that several people around the world - and specifically several people on this board - would be wrong in vilifying Mike for ending the reunion solely. If you think Mike is lying in the quote, then I would expect a response from Brian's camp. He didn't have a problem issuing a statement the first time around, which is basically what ignited the flames.

Yes, it was very strong. I am strictly talking of writing the bulk of an album together.

As I remember Brian said Mike came up with a hook. Also hasn't Carl said Mike is un-credited for a lot of harmony parts [not specifically GV].

Thanks for that. No harm done.

I know. But if the end result was so good, I can't fathom why Mike couldn't put aside his desire to relive his own rose-coloured view of the past in favour of a similar project. If he didn't have a track record of getting all hung up about really great works that he wasn't involved in in the past, I might be a bit more forgiving. As it is, this is just another sign of his ongoing childishness.

Where? Mike has said otherwise. Maybe Brian meant the hook was the "I'm pickin' up good vibrations" lyrics but not melody.

I'm sure they all are to an extent but what do you mean by un-credited? Who gets credited for harmony parts?

My understanding from Tony is mostly they worked together at Brian's house with Tony helping with some musical ideas and Brian helping with some lyrical ideas and Tony would also hone the lyrics or ideas at his home in the evenings.

I don't think the pre-VDP H&V made it to their collaboration which also happened mostly with them together at Brian's house even at the piano in the sandbox as I understand it.

Short of new information I haven't heard, I think it's a stretch to say Mike had something to do with the music via a hook...If I remember the part in question, Mike's "hook" was "I'm pickin up good vibrations, she's givin me excitations" sung in his bass voice. But the actual melody Mike added those words too was in place through Brian's basslines on those takes recorded during and just after Pet Sounds, wasn't it?

I think the hook was the lyrics, added to the bass melody Brian already had on the song. But I welcome any corrections! And it is a terrific lyrical hook for that chorus, no doubt.

Maybe. I'll see if I can find it or if I remember/read it wrong.

Agreed, the main problem with Mike seems to be his unwillingness to let go of the past and accept change in the BBs. This is a man still obsessed with a long passed "surf" fad from the early 1960s.

I don't know how Carl meant that. I can guess his point was things were somewhat more collaborative then people think.

The point is is that in both cases, they may have worked together at a particular point but Brian had done a great deal of composing on his own before it got to that point.

And the other point is that may be true but they were working together without "others", except occasionally Marilyn, in a room which is what Mike also enjoyed and prefers.

Let's hope Brian doesn't suggest writing out doors with Mike because that "room" seems to be a really crucial piece of the pie. What a fu(k!ng baby...

I think a lot of that comes down to trying to get the most bang for the buck through marketing. The surf tag and all the trappings is the most convenient and most proven marketing for the band's name.

It was an interesting dynamic to be at one of Brian's earlier shows when he started touring with The Wondermints and Taylor and all of that crew, and it seemed like they were really straddling a line between that surf image and the Brian image. Because inside Symphony Hall, as Brian was running through tunes from Pet Sounds and whatnot which we were so thrilled to be hearing live, the beach balls started to appear and some in the crowd started batting them around. Depending on your feelings about both the venue and what was happening on stage, it was either fun or inappropriate for the time and place. Yet on subsequent concert videos, there again were the beach balls shown on camera. And I'll need to dig out some old photos of that Boston show, but I think Hawaiian shirts were part of the stage look, along with perhaps some other surf-y images, but I just can't remember offhand.

And it did create an interesting scene where it looked like those staging Brian's show wanted to both showcase and distance themselves from the image which Mike and the BB's band have branded and thrive under.

Exactly!  :thumbsup :thumbsup :thumbsup

Exactly. Why it's difficult for people to understand this is beyond me. So Mike wants to work alone with his cousin...does this really make him seem childish? It's a simple request, though not easily fulfilled when Joe Thomas is co-writing nearly every song.

Phoenix - the essential underlying fact is that Brian and Mike ARE the founding composer-lyricist members. All others were "added" on as they built the configuration with the help of Carl's guitar, Dave's guitar, Al, and Dennis ended up as a natural drummer.  And I wouldn't call the Touring Band "ringers." They are all talented musicians.  They did switch off with leads. That "Brian" music theory doesn't hold water for me.  Some stuff was "cover" doo wop. Yesterday I heard "In the Parking Lot," on some compilation. Great song, from the old days.  

Until BRI sits down and changes things, it will likely be the status quo.  They set the parameters of the touring. And apparently they abide by the terms set forth.  They play in the BB style.  I'm not worried about them competing. That is just ridiculous.  They all do something unique, even Al's great band.  But, Mike is doing some deeper stuff, which is great.
My take is that the long separation did them a world of good, as they had to learn to rely on themselves for the business end of things.  And looking at what "good" will come from this independent band thing, is how I look at all this stuff. It won't change my opinion of the great music.    ;)

The childish part isn't wanting it - the childish part is refusing to do anything if he doesn't get his way.

Maybe but I wouldn't quite put it that way. The first album is more of a Wilson/Usher affair. Mike has 3 writing credits on the second album. He has a four on the third but then the fourth is a Wilson/Christian effort. Only from the 5th studio through to the 9th does Mike have a kind of co-writer position on the album, which is significant but his role as such comes fairly late in the game.

I think he meant Mike often came up with his own bass harmony parts.  

I don't think it matters anymore though.  A large part of The Beach Boys' appeal is their ability to draw as a nostalgia act.  Now I particularly don't like the fact that they are "sold" on television alongside the one hit wonders of the sixties but it's far too late to change any of that now.  I'd even gamble that a large number of people who showed up last year for the C50 were there to see the band relive their past glories one more time on stage and I think the people who were buying tickets to the show looking for that went home satisfied.  The same can be said for people who go see the M&B lineup, it's a nostalgia trip.  So I don't see any problem from that standpoint or any problem regarding Mike Love writing songs having to do with sixties nostalgia.  There is a section of the general public that eats that type of stuff up with a fork and spoon and like any entertainer worth his salt, Mike Love knows his audience and caters to them.  Obviously the "Endless Summer" stuff ticks the diehards off to no end but unless you want Mike Love jettisoned from "The Beach Boys" entirely I think by this time you should just accept him for who he is and move on.

Now if anything Mike Love needs to let go that his songwriting partnership with Brian Wilson isn't ever going to be what it was in the early sixties.  If Mike Love truly wants to work with his cousin and truly wants his cousin to be a part of The Beach Boys he's going to have to make some concessions to work with Brian Wilson under the circumstances that exist today.  One thing that has always stuck out to me about Brian Wilson is he always seemed to have this little entourage of people around him.  "The Beach Boys" were his entourage in the early sixties and obviously Mike Love being one his main songwriting partners during that era was a huge part of all that.  Then there was Van Dyke Parks and "The Vosse Posse", There was the period where he was Landylocked and all of his associations were allegedly governed by the doctor and since he's been free of that he's surrounded himself with his family and touring band.  Mike Love is just no longer in the loop as he once was and I really don't think there is a way for him to become part of Brian's inner circle again unless he's willing to capitulate to how Brian conducts his life and his business in 2013.  So from that regard yes Mike Love in my opinion needs to realize that it's not 1965 anymore and "The Beach Boys" are no longer Brian's main entourage of people of which he chooses to hang out with.

The marketing does make sense from Mike's view, but desperate need to live up to the "beach" image has led to some of the most cynical and souless musical material from Mike Love.

Why should he continue to be apart of a "band" that doesn't even acknowledge his request to write with a fellow bandmember? That doesn't even sound like a band.

He wasn't comfortable with the tour size, he wasn't comfortable with not being able to write with his cousin....there is obviously no band chemistry left. Why the hell would Mike stay in that environment? I can't blame him for leaving.

Surfin' (the first single) November 1961, and Surfin' Safari are Brian-Mike.  June, 1962. And, 4-0-9 is Wilson, Usher, Love.
The Shift, Brian, Mike. Chug-a-Lug is Wilson, Usher, Love. Mike is on 5 of 12.  And, Mike has leads on 8 of 12.
Brian has one, Dennis has one, Dave has one, and the remaining one is an instrumental.

Album - October, 1962.

Yes. yes, I'm sure that's what it is. Not in a vestibule or garage or grotto or under an umbrella. Only in a room is the crucial bit.

He accepted change from Smiley Smile through Holland and it took Endless Summer and the revival of said fad in musical terms to make the Beach Boys popular again. How long was it between Endless Summer and Imagination.........about 25 years right? And what was it Brian was singing about in the first track on that album "....another bucket of sand another wave at the pier" ......sounds like a Mike Love line I guess.

I remember reading at the time that Brian Wilson wasn't exactly happy with the lyrics to "Imagination".  He particularly had issues with the line "I miss the way that I used to call the shots around here" so as much as I love that song, I've always wondered about the extent of Wilson's reservations surrounding it.

I remember seeing an interview somewhere in which Carl mentioned that things got more difficult between band members when they stopped hanging around with each other. I can see that. However, there is a point where simple but affecting lyrics of yearning nostalgia like Do It Again turn in to self-referential crap like Summer of Love and I suspect that has less to do with who he writes with and more to do with his 'vision' of the band and where his head is rather than being allowed to sit in a room and write with Brian.

Mike is an artist too. I think calling his behavior childish is bit much. As a full member of The Beach Boys, I suspect that he, along with Al have some say regarding an album project, should the need arise. Considering how fractured the band is at the moment, Mike may pull his weight to move a new project in a direction that he is comfortable with. If not, they don't record. Like AGD noted, they might be better off not recording another album. I think Mike has every right to share in the vision of a new project. If that means writing the bulk of the material with Brian, then so be it. It is a very simple dynamic, really.

That I'll definitely agree with. I doubt Mike could write anything more than nostalgia/beach-esque stuff...however, I think the quality of the lyrics would be a bit better if he had Brian to bounce ideas off of.

That's true, but on the other hand, writing directly with Brian can also help in bouncing ideas off of one another. If Brian is there insisting that a song should be about a certain topic, then that forces Mike to write about something different than what you say in your post above. This type of thing is a part of that dynamic of writing in the same room together.


@rab

We are thinking alike. :)

Well put..... BTW, I'd love to see Al and Mike in charge of a new album. I think they might have another MIU in them if they put their minds to it. I think we'd all  be perfectly happy at this point with something as good as MIU even..... And I think Brian could work wonders if Joe Thomas is nowhere to be seen.

Exactly!

I'm sure Mike was happy to get a cassette in the mail with a title "Beaches In Mind" but it still must have sucked quite a bit.... And here we are blaming him for writing about beaches.....

Hey, nobody is fooling anybody here. We all know, even Mike & Al know that Brian's participation is the key to any successful Beach Boys album. Musically, Brian is the man, no doubt about that.

MIU as the "gold standard" for a new BBs album scares me.... ;D

A POSTCARD FROM SEAWORLD! :)

I wonder how many were from Smiley Smile Dot Net members?

 :smokin

Well, technically it was 1/2 Dave and 1/2 Carl sharing lead vocals on that one. And I hear Carl more than Dave.

"When Carl was singing Rhonda and Al was singing Brian's stuff, etc. there weren't two separate oldies acts with different members competing for the same live audiences.  There was one BEACH BOYS."

Beyond whatever everyone thinks of Mike as a person and an artist, the essential problem is that everyone in BB land wants to have their cake and eat it too. Mike wants to be the Beach Boys, but doesn't want to have anything to do with the other Beach Boys, except for Bruce obviously. And Brian and Al can make all the noises they want about Mike not wanting to tour with them, but they are unwilling to give up the money they get from Mike's BBs. If Mike wants to be a Beach Boy, he should learn to put up with the rest of the group. If he doesn't want to do that, he shouldn't be a BB. Simiarly, if Brian and Al don't like getting "fired" by Mike, they should have never let him have the BB name in the first place.

In a less greedy world, they would have agreed to retire the Beach Boy name in 1999, which would have headed off all the problems we are seeing now. However, I think that deep down, they are all happy with this arrangement, as only Mike really wants to tour steadily as The Beach Boys, and Brian and Al are happy to receive $ from Mike's touring.

How come this was never a problem when Brian didn't want to be a Beach Boy for the previous 14 years plus? There never seems to be an issue when it comes to Brian, but Mike gets slammed? Also, nobody raised this much fuss over Al? Mentioned, but nothing like what is happening with Brian. I say let's blame all this on Carl for dying and fracturing the band.

He wrote several songs with Brian - just not under the conditions he wanted and it seems as a result, he publicly doesn't like the album and has suggested that the songs he was not involved him make him want to commit suicide.


Because he's not a petulant six year old? Seriously, this mostly amounts to, "I'm not getting my way! I'm not going to play with you anymore!" If you are an emotionally mature adult you should be able to have the slightest comprehension of the concept of compromise - you know, like when Brian shelved some of the greatest music he ever made to make a more inclusive album for his band mates? Mike doesn't even seem capable of a much smaller compromise and simply behaves like the kid who runs to his room and slams the door on his or her parents who won't serve cake for dinner. We barely tolerate this behaviour in a child. And here, I'm going to flip around what has become a popular statement on this board not because I believe it's true but because I would like to illustrate how fundamentally silly the statement is to begin with: You wouldn't accept this behaviour if it was anybody other than Mike Love.

If there was "obviously no band chemistry left" it is certainly not obvious to the majority of the members who wanted to continue. But I guess what's obvious to Mike should be obvious to everyone else too.