Best Summation of SMILE.

[KokoMoses]

Although, I think that Van Dyke's lyrics are superior to Mike's, I have wondered what might have happened if Brian allowed Mike to be the lyrisist for Smile. I really don't think that Mike was going to write about surfing and cars at this point. But considering what he did for GV, which were both poetic and commercial, he probably would have continued in that vain.

Not only that, but I guarantee that Mike would have put support behind Smile, if he were the lyrisist. With the BBs supporting him, perhaps Brian would've had the confidence to finish and release it!

Great post

I can't agree that Mike should have written ALL the lyrics, but if he'd been invited to contribute in a substantial way, yes, the thing would have most likely been completed.

I've said it a million times, Brian skewering the band into .... (other people's words) Brian the genius and those other untalented hacks" really f***ed up the band for good in so many ways.

[Fun Is In]

I think of it (lovingly) as a Teenage Symphony to Odd.


This reflects both Brian's grandiose intent as well as the mental travails he went thru at the time.

[SG7]

Fragments about history, society  life. 

[sockittome]

Re: "Teenage Symphony to God"....  It's not the God part that trips me up.  If Brian said that is who it's to, well that's good enough for me. 

But since we're all getting technical, let's talk about "symphony".  From "The New Merriam-Webster Dictionary":  sym-pho-ny n 2: a large and complex composition for a full orchestra.

Just thought I'd throw that in there. 

[Fun Is In]

Right-O! "Teenage symphony" is the operative term, since it's obvious it's not a "symphony"

[Bill Tobelman]

You get the "symphony" thing cuz Brian's hero & imagined competitor, Phil Spector AKA "the tycoon of teen," was doing "little symphonies for kids" and Brian was working in the age when LSD was making it big & so Brian combined all of these competitive elements and came up with a "teenage symphony to God."

The "God" part of the equation is cuz the LSD experience was on that level every once in a while & Brian must have taken a direct hit.

[buddhahat]

The H&V stuff, is of course very ironic...obviously.  And it's Villianuous episodes, especially the instrumental "segment" that appeared on the GV Box---that is the most panicked, and freight-filled musical creation I've ever heard.  Man is that deeply spooky.

Are you talking about H&V Intro? Does anyone have any thoughts about how this would fit with the rest of the song? I presume it would just go before the "I've been in this town .." start but it never really sounds right if you butt it up before the beginning of H&V. The only thing that does suggest these two 'songs' (one's an instrumental I know) belong together is the presence of whistles every now and then during H&V.

I suppose the other possibility was that it was the intro to H&V pt. 2?

Any thoughts on how the 'intro' would have segued into the main song then? Most people assume a finished Smile in 67 would have started with Our Prayer, followed by H&V, but if the freaky intro was added, Our Prayer into Heroes just doesn't work at all.

Edit: maybe the scary intro would have preceded H&V AND replaced Our Prayer as the intro to the album. Can you imagine how ironic a start to an album titled 'Smile' that scary intro would have been?! It actually seems more appropriate a kick off to Smile than Our Prayer in this context, imo - the sort of mischeivous joke that BW would have played at the time. I've always found the solemn Our Prayer followed by the comedic H&V a bit of an awkward transition personally.

[Aegir]

If I recall correctly, the H&V Intro on the boxset is mislabeled. It wasn't meant to actually be an introduction to Heroes and Villains.

Right?

[Fun Is In]

You get the "symphony" thing cuz Brian's hero & imagined competitor, Phil Spector AKA "the tycoon of teen," was doing "little symphonies for kids" and Brian was working in the age when LSD was making it big & so Brian combined all of these competitive elements and came up with a "teenage symphony to God."

The "God" part of the equation is cuz the LSD experience was on that level every once in a while & Brian must have taken a direct hit.

Delusions of grandeur can come from LSD or from psychosis or both.
If he was serious about a "teenage symphony to God" it was pretty darn grandiose. If he was pulling the interviewer's leg, it's pretty funny.

[Sheriff John Stone]

Most people assume a finished Smile in 67 would have started with Our Prayer, followed by H&V, but if the freaky intro was added, Our Prayer into Heroes just doesn't work at all.

Edit: maybe the scary intro would have preceded H&V AND replaced Our Prayer as the intro to the album. Can you imagine how ironic a start to an album titled 'Smile' that scary intro would have been?! It actually seems more appropriate a kick off to Smile than Our Prayer in this context, imo - the sort of mischeivous joke that BW would have played at the time. I've always found the solemn Our Prayer followed by the comedic H&V a bit of an awkward transition personally.

I never assumed that "Our Prayer" would've opened SMiLE. I know a stoned Brian suggested it during a recording session, and obviously it opened BWPS, but, as you suggested buddhahat, the solemn "Our Prayer" followed by the comedic "H & V" is a bit awkward. I actually like "Our Prayer" near the end of SMiLE, like it is on BWPS, but in its entirety.

Also, I don't know if the "H & V Intro" was mislabelled on the boxed set, but I really like it before "Heroes And Villains", even though I use it as an intro to 'Fire". Gee, it's nice to talk about SMiLE music again!

[Dr. Tim]

"Teenage symphony to God" is a great catch-phrase but clearly Smile is not that.  Brian has called it a "rock opera" but it clearly is not that either, there is no dramatic story.  As a concert work (which is how it was debuted upon completion) it would more properly be labeled a cantata (which can be secular or religious).  Possibly you could also call it an oratorio, insofar as it does have a spiritual evocation in it but no dramatic arc, akin to pieces like the "Messiah". 

I was slammed for using these high-falutin' labels in another thread - "why call it anything?" I was asked.   And no doubt when it was conceived it was only as a pop album to rival what the Beatles were doing in 1966.  On reflection, Iwould say the label does matter, since, as a live concert piece, Smile could someday be seen as a significant addition to the American music canon -  much like another famous composition, "Rhapsody In Blue", which we know to be one of Brian's favorite pieces of music.

[buddhahat]

Most people assume a finished Smile in 67 would have started with Our Prayer, followed by H&V, but if the freaky intro was added, Our Prayer into Heroes just doesn't work at all.

Edit: maybe the scary intro would have preceded H&V AND replaced Our Prayer as the intro to the album. Can you imagine how ironic a start to an album titled 'Smile' that scary intro would have been?! It actually seems more appropriate a kick off to Smile than Our Prayer in this context, imo - the sort of mischeivous joke that BW would have played at the time. I've always found the solemn Our Prayer followed by the comedic H&V a bit of an awkward transition personally.

I never assumed that "Our Prayer" would've opened SMiLE. I know a stoned Brian suggested it during a recording session, and obviously it opened BWPS, but, as you suggested buddhahat, the solemn "Our Prayer" followed by the comedic "H & V" is a bit awkward. I actually like "Our Prayer" near the end of SMiLE, like it is on BWPS, but in its entirety.

Also, I don't know if the "H & V Intro" was mislabelled on the boxed set, but I really like it before "Heroes And Villains", even though I use it as an intro to 'Fire". Gee, it's nice to talk about SMiLE music again!

I tend to put it at the beginning, but in mood it feels more akin to Surf's Up. The Vosse article where he describes Surf's Up closing the album followed by a short choral piece excited me as I thought he was describing Our Prayer, but as another board member pointed out, Vosse mentions 20/20 in the article and so surely if the choral piece he refers to was Our Prayer, he would have called it by it's name, or at least mentioned that it was on 20/20, along with Cabinessence. However, there are no other choral pieces in the Smile sessions so what piece was Vosse talking about?  Jules Siegel also describes a choral style piece. It was the last acetate that Brian played him when showcasing the music he'd recorded so far. The way Siegel describes it has to be Our Prayer, or a truncated version of it, and its placement at the end of Brian playing the Smile acetates seems siginificant - it seems like a logical closer to Smile. Anyway personally I think there's strong evidence that Our Prayer or a version of it was, after Surf's Up, to close Smile. 

As far as I know the title of Heroes and Villains intro on the GV boxset is the correct name for the piece and its association with Mrs Oleary's Cow is an assumption made by fans.

[XY]

There is another choral piece: "You're Welcome".

Yes, Siegel described that last acetate Brian played him in October as a 30 seconds choral amen without words. "Our Prayer" was recorded in early October, "You're Welcome" in December, so OP makes sense, but who knows, perhaps it was something else?

[Sheriff John Stone]

I was disappointed that "You're Welcome" didn't make the cut for BWPS. I think it's the perfect opener.

[donald]

I always fancied "You're Welcome",  at the end.

[Sheriff John Stone]

For those who are into meanings of SMiLE era songs, please help me out on this one.

"Well, you're welcome to come"..... Where? Anywhere? How about "You're welcome to come...on the SMiLE trip." Yes? No? Was it just a throwaway B-side?

[Bill Tobelman]

In Brian's "auto-bio" there's a story about Brian Driving Al Jardine to the William Morris Agency the day after Brian had his enlightening LSD trip. Brian circles the block about 20 times telling Al about his great trip (trying to get Al to try it).

This story works well with "You're Welcome." The repetition of the song is like circling the four sides of the block repeatedly & the "well you're welcome to come" line is the invitation to join in the fun.

[Roger Ryan]

When I think of the wordplay, albeit minor, going on with "Well, you're well..., you're welcome. Well, you're welcome to come", I wonder if Van Dyke Parks had an uncredited hand in writing the chant?

[Bean Bag]

Smile could someday be seen as a significant addition to the American music canon -  much like another famous composition, "Rhapsody In Blue"

Yes, exactly!  It will be.  It's hard to see it now, since it largely seems like it slipped right by our Miley Cyrus pop-focused-media...but you have to think about distant, distant generations rummaging through our cultural garbage.  They'll be looking for unique things with a solid base and a firm foundation to build on and study.  The things that are worthy of that degree don't always sit proudly and openly apparent to our, shall we say CNN viewing audience.

Brian Wilson himself is already emerging (in his own lifetime!) as one of "those composers."  That's pretty amazing given much of his life has been tabloid fodder and much of his music being famously "teen rock."  Those are immense barriers, but greatness knows no bounds.  The "CNN viewing audience" will perish, largely unaware of the greatness that they witness...or didn't.     

[Bill Tobelman]

Smile could someday be seen as a significant addition to the American music canon -  much like another famous composition, "Rhapsody In Blue"

Yes, exactly!  It will be.

I can't believe that folks believe this "Rhapsody In Blue" & SMiLE stuff. Apparently David Leaf's, Peter Reum's, and Brian's & Van Dyke's spin on things worked.

It would far more more realistic to situate SMiLE atop a list that would include the likes of The Psychedelic Sounds Of The 13th Floor Elevators, The Fifth Dimension (the Byrds LP), Forever Changes, The Piper At The Gates Of Dawn, and Sgt. Pepper's....

The fact That Leaf & Reum don't understand SMiLE doesn't make the work equatable to their fancified dreams.

And the SMiLE people who believe this stuff aren't all that different from the CNN crowd.

[Roger Ryan]

Well, fans (and that includes Leaf, Reum, etc.) would prefer to elevate SMiLE to a higher station instead of simply throwing it in with the rest of the mid-60s psychedlic pop albums. What complicates the matter is that the finished album was completed and released in 2004 so it was being presented out of its time period and a long way from the things that originally inspired the material.

Personally, I don't have any problem if someone thinks SMiLE is the next best thing to Gershwin's most recognized work. I also don't have a problem with it being evaluated alongside the best psychedelic pop music of the 60s. All of it is pretty good stuff!

[Bill Tobelman]

My biggest problem with the linking of Rhapsody In Blue to SMiLE is not that the comparison is a poor one (and it is a poor one), but what really gets me is that the comparison advances an innacurate picture of SMiLE.

By comparing SMiLE to Rhapsody---SMiLE ends up being framed as a great composer's intentionally American masterpiece presented, for the first time, to a concert audience... & the rest is history.

Sounds nice but doesn't really work out because...

Gershwin's piece was meant to showcase new American music. That was its original purpose & its raison d'etre.

Not so with SMiLE which was meant to showcase Brian Wilson's new LSD inspired spiritual music (key word being "spiritual").

And SMiLE was meant for a vinyl debut. Live performances would likely not have been possible in '67.

And then there are other things;

Rhapsody was done in a hurry and premiered a few weeks after George started it!!! SMiLE took over 30 years to premiere.

Rhapsody was originally performed stateside, not abroad as in the case of SMiLE.

[Bean Bag]

Gershwin's piece was meant to showcase new American music. That was its original purpose & its raison d'etre.

Not so with SMiLE which was meant to showcase Brian Wilson's new LSD inspired spiritual music (key word being "spiritual").

Uhh....okay.  I don't think I or anyone is comparing it literally to Rhapsody in Blue, in all the circumstances in which Rhapsody in Blue was created, presented, Brian had brown hair when he wrote Smile, Gershwin had blah-ditty-blah blah.

Smile is just a great work of American music.  It's an amazing composition.  It's Ellington.  It's Beethoven, Bach, Mozart.  Etc, etc.  It really is.  I don't think that's a stupid comparison.  I can't speak for the intentions of David Leaf's film and point...but yeah...I think it would be sophistry to NOT evaluate the best music that was created by Brian Wilson with the best music created throughout history.

Add to that the fact that he wrote, performed and produced these "works of art" in the same manner than Picasso performed and produced his own work.  The same way Sinatra performed and arranged his best concept albums.  That adds another level altogether.

Museum quality  s h i t  man.  That's where I am at.

Rhapsody was done in a hurry and premiered a few weeks after George started it!!! SMiLE took over 30 years to premiere.

Rhapsody was originally performed stateside, not abroad as in the case of SMiLE.

Not important.   

[brianc]

Not so with SMiLE which was meant to showcase Brian Wilson's new LSD inspired spiritual music (key word being "spiritual").

All due respect, Bill... you've zero'd in on that notion as being the underlying motivation of Brian Wilson. But the lyrics of Van Dyke Parks point to something that is uniquely American, and that will continue to be one of Smile's great attributes.

[Dancing Bear]

Let's face it, no one's comparing Smile to Rhapsody in Blue but Beach Boys fans. Sure, you're free to elevate it to the pantheon of greatest musical works of the XXth Century. It's all good. Me, I think Smile is a good pop album written by Brian Wilson, with some fantastic material and some that sounds underdeveloped. Not in my Beach Boys / Brian Wilson top 3. Just my opinion.